Jump to content

Dress Codes


bilrus

Recommended Posts

Fiola's "casual elegant." It's as vague as "smart casual." I intrepret anything casual as okay to wear jeans. My gripe with untucked shirts and jeans isn't that they don't meet the restaurant's dress code if it's casual, but that they've become the uniform for those men with no sense of style. For those who

Wow. No one I hang out with has a sense of style! I was actually laughing (to myself) the other day as I waited for someone to meet me at a bar - thinking "Oh, I'll be the white guy in jeans with an untucked shirt and sweater" as I was in a huge group of guys all dressed that way...

Of course, I've never claimed I have any sense of style. I bought a sport coat simply to go to PX once. But having to think ahead on whether or not I need to wear a sport coat was too much of a pain in the ass for me, so I stopped going there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Various people have continued to mention frustration with restaurants not "enforcing" "their" dress "codes." Frustration may be eased, or at least redirected, by recognizing that this is not what is happening. Restaurants with dress codes enforce them. Citronelle says (eg on Open Table and elsewhere) that jackets are required - and I'm happy to go along with that, with no adolescent desire to rebel against Michel Richard. Corduroy says "no shorts" with an exclamation point, even - and so no shorts it is! But places that don't have those rules, don't have them. This leads to some discomfort among people who are happier in places where all patrons follow the dress standards of some particular subculture (e.g., the GQ-reading subculture, or the downtown DC power subculture, or others). But it is not a matter of failure to enforce a dress code.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic has been explored here before.

Suffice it to say I think that people should dress like adults when eating in "nice" restaurants, but contemporary fashion gives plenty of leeway regarding the definition "like adults.

I wish people would dress up more because dressing up is nice. It makes an everyday excursion into a special occasion. People seem to act more politely when they're decked out, and yes, I think it shows respect to the host. I almost wept when I saw my first (and sadly not last) track suit at the opera. Put in a little effort, people.

Yes! And parents who send their kids to the National Symphony in gym shorts and t-shirts should be sent to re-education camps.

But Elisir doesn't say it's business casual, it says (on open table) "smart casual,"

"Smart casual" means you can wear your jeans, but not the grungy ones. No sneakers or t-shirts. Maybe a jacket or a wrap or something with a little pizazz.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Various people have continued to mention frustration with restaurants not "enforcing" "their" dress "codes." Frustration may be eased, or at least redirected, by recognizing that this is not what is happening. Restaurants with dress codes enforce them. Citronelle says (eg on Open Table and elsewhere) that jackets are required - and I'm happy to go along with that, with no adolescent desire to rebel against Michel Richard. Corduroy says "no shorts" with an exclamation point, even - and so no shorts it is! But places that don't have those rules, don't have them. This leads to some discomfort among people who are happier in places where all patrons follow the dress standards of some particular subculture (e.g., the GQ-reading subculture, or the downtown DC power subculture, or others). But it is not a matter of failure to enforce a dress code.

Yes, it is a matter. At ....... almost ten years ago a group of eight people were seated next to us. Three of the men had t shirts, shorts and either flip flops or sneakers. They were also noisy. There are all kinds of description of casual from smart to dressy, etc. Then, there is for lack of a better description: beach casual. It might work in Ocean City or even Santa Monica-it might even be the norm but is inappropriate in a restaurant on K street where dinner can run $100 or more a person.

I asked the host on duty if there was a dress code when we left noting how several were dressed at the table next to us. He said something like they resisted enforcing anything since so many tourists visited them.

That was ten years ago. I have not been back to this restaurant.

Anyway, that's me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still bitter about our treatment at Jean-George in December for my companion's perceived dress code violation. Somewhere on my desk is the name of the manager I spoke with who promised to welcome us back with open arms but despite very nice food, I have no desire to go back and would probably discourage people from going in the future.

I can afford a nice meal once in a blue moon these days. I'm certainly not spending it somewhere where grey pants aren't good enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it is a matter. At ....... almost ten years ago a group of eight people were seated next to us. Three of the men had t shirts, shorts and either flip flops or sneakers. They were also noisy. There are all kinds of description of casual from smart to dressy, etc. Then, there is for lack of a better description: beach casual. It might work in Ocean City or even Santa Monica-it might even be the norm but is inappropriate in a restaurant on K street where dinner can run $100 or more a person.

I asked the host on duty if there was a dress code when we left noting how several were dressed at the table next to us. He said something like they resisted enforcing anything since so many tourists visited them.

That was ten years ago. I have not been back to this restaurant.

Anyway, that's me.

Was your issue what others were wearing or their behavior? If they hadn't been noisy would you have felt the same way?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Various people have continued to mention frustration with restaurants not "enforcing" "their" dress "codes." Frustration may be eased, or at least redirected, by recognizing that this is not what is happening. Restaurants with dress codes enforce them. Citronelle says (eg on Open Table and elsewhere) that jackets are required - and I'm happy to go along with that, with no adolescent desire to rebel against Michel Richard. Corduroy says "no shorts" with an exclamation point, even - and so no shorts it is! But places that don't have those rules, don't have them.

If a restaurant has rules, and I choose to go there, I am fine to follow the rules, as long as they are clear. I once witnessed a very polite yet strained conversation in a restaurant (not in DC) about whether a lady's capris were, in fact, shorts. Yikes. The customer was embarrassed and the host was uncomfortable. It reminded me of Catholic school where we had to kneel to prove that our skirts were not too short.

The whole "smart casual" or the worse "dress to impress" really don't give any direction, so why bother? My smart casual is probably some else's very casual, and my "dress to impress" might indeed make an impression, albeit one I did not intend to make. People who think it is OK to wear ratty cargo shorts and a rock concert t-shirt to an upscale restaurant probably aren't going to be affected one way or another by a recommendation of "smart casual."

I like to get gussied up and be around other people who are gussied up, when I'm in that kind of mood. But largely, I think it's difficult to impose any sort of sartorial guidelines on people in restaurants when guidelines for clothes in other aspect of life are also missing.

And now for that "I've become my mother" moment...if you could see what some of my undergraduates wear to class on any given day you might yearn for dress codes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow. No one I hang out with has a sense of style! I was actually laughing (to myself) the other day as I waited for someone to meet me at a bar - thinking "Oh, I'll be the white guy in jeans with an untucked shirt and sweater" as I was in a huge group of guys all dressed that way...

I once read that 10% of the population is gay. I'm guessing not all gay men have a sense of style and I'm guessing that only about 1% of the straight men care and have a sense of style. So maybe 1 in 10 guys have a sense of style? Just guessing - no evidence whatsoever to back it up. I've had a GQ subscription since my college days - I read it to see what's hot, what's not. I don't buy the stuff in GQ, can't afford that, eat out, save for retirement and send my kids to college. I appreciate people who do have a sense of personal style as opposed to just wearing the same shit everyone else is wearing. Wearing an untucked shirt is about as stylish as getting a tattoo these days. But not having or caring enough to have a personal style doesn't mean anything - I'm not a fashion police; however, I do think Steve Jobs is cooler than Bill Gates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was your issue what others were wearing or their behavior? If they hadn't been noisy would you have felt the same way?

I had a response that I deleted. It occurs to me that if a t shirt, shorts and flip flops on K street in a restaurant with entrees in the $30's isn't a consideration there is nothing that I can say that might be appropriate. We simply have different values. It is best for me to say no more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think timing plays in too. I was out on Saturday not planning to have dinner out and the next thing we knew it was 8:30. I would not stop at xxxx restaurant because it was prime time on Saturday night and not appropriate. I had been during the week early (5ish) at the same restaurant in jeans and tshirt and I felt perfectly ok.

There is just a difference between Saturday night prime time and other nights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a response that I deleted. It occurs to me that if a t shirt, shorts and flip flops on K street in a restaurant with entrees in the $30's isn't a consideration there is nothing that I can say that might be appropriate. We simply have different values. It is best for me to say no more.

The point of my question is that it's a fair and reasonable thing to be offended by the behavior of others that impact you. Their choice in clothes however doesn't. Actions should carry far more weight than wardrobe.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of my question is that it's a fair and reasonable thing to be offended by the behavior of others that impact you. Their choice in clothes however doesn't. Actions should carry far more weight than wardrobe.

Exactly. I couldn't care less what people are wearing at a restaurant as long as they're not disturbing anyone. If a restaurant has a specific dress code I believe in following it, but that's about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long ago, I was maitre d' of a restaurant that had a dress code. It was my job to enforce said dress code. So I turned away men and women, who had reservations, that were wearing jeans, shorts, etc. People got upset. I was yelled at, and belittled, but our rule was our rule and we chose to enforce it, regardless of the potential economic loss from turning away a patron and leaving the table empty.

I had a teaching-related job that required me to enforce a dress code for teenagers. At the point at which it seemed that I was the only one enforcing it, it got rather frustrating. I'm not a confrontational person, so that was hard. It is not a pleasant task, so I understand why people didn't want to do it, but the lack of consistency made the whole situation worse. If most restaurants are not enforcing a dress code even when they have an explicit one, it empowers people who get away with it at some places to think they can get away with it anywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of my question is that it's a fair and reasonable thing to be offended by the behavior of others that impact you. Their choice in clothes however doesn't. Actions should carry far more weight than wardrobe.

I care to think one's choice in wardrobe does impact me, the people around me and society as a whole. If people's wardrobe choices were not a factor of any consideration then why do you put on a suit for an interview, wear your Sunday best, go to court with proper attire, etc, etc. It is a sign of respect. I don't think anyone here has said actions aren't more important than wardrobe, they just also feel wardrobe is important. Is it becoming less important- perhaps so, perhaps not.

There is a definition for smart- clean, tidy, stylish. And for casual- being without ceremony or formailty. But I agree it does leave room for error.

From Emily Post:

Business

Casual*

  • Seasonal sport coat or blazer with slacks or khakis
  • dress shirt with optional tie, or casual button-down shirt
  • open-collar or polo shirt
  • loafers or loafer-style shoes and socks

  • Skirt, khakis or pants
  • open-collar shirt, knit shirt, or sweater
    (no spaghetti straps or decolleté)
  • casual-style dress

Dressy

Casual

  • Seasonal sport coat or blazer and slacks
  • dress shirt, casual button-down shirt
  • optional tie
  • open-collar or polo shirt

  • Dress
  • skirt and dressy top
  • dressy pants outfit
  • nice jeans and dressy top

Casual

  • Khakis or good jeans (clean, no holes)
  • cargo or Bermuda shorts—depending on occasion and climate
  • plain t-shirt (no slogans), polo shirt, or turtleneck
  • casual button-down shirt
  • sweater
  • loafers, sneakers (with or without socks), or sandals

  • Sundress
  • long or short skirt
  • khakis or nice jeans
  • shorts (depending on occasion and climate)
  • plain t-shirt (no slogans), polo shirt, or turtleneck
  • casual button-down blouse

Smart casual is obviously not casual or why put in the smart, so I would say it is the same as dressy casual. And I do think there are tons of restaurants that have dress codes they are not enforcing. Maybe I will send this to opentable to reference as usual they seem to be creating etiquette problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I care to think one's choice in wardrobe does impact me, the people around me and society as a whole. If people's wardrobe choices were not a factor of any consideration then why do you put on a suit for an interview, wear your Sunday best, go to court with proper attire, etc, etc. It is a sign of respect. I don't think anyone here has said actions aren't more important than wardrobe, they just also feel wardrobe is important. Is it becoming less important- perhaps so, perhaps not.

Sorry, but I don't agree with your analogies. You put on suit to the interview to impress/show respect for the interviewee. You put on a suit for court to show respect for the judge. You dress up for church to show respect for God, or the pastor. Who is disrespected if you don't dress up at a restaurant? Do you think the chef cares? The other diners?

I got called out by another patron once for wearing jeans to a play at the Kennedy Center. She said it showed a lack of respect to the performers. I told her I had been an actor for most of my life, and all the performers care about is that the people watching the play are comfortable. That's how I feel about restaurants as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This past Saturday evening my husband and I enjoyed a fantastic meal at Fiola. We were seated in the front area, where I had a view of the entrance. Many diners arrived wearing jeans (some even with shirts untucked) and all were greeted graciously and seated. So no one should be offended or insulted.

This reminds me of when I called Fiola before they opened last year to make a reservation and ask about the menu. The woman who answered -- who I now suspect was the chef's wife -- said the menu is more causal than Maestro's was and added something like "and it's not as dressy as Maestro, since I know you're going to ask me that --you don't have to be super dressed up -- you can wear anything, just chic and modern!" I was charmed by her enthusiasm and her overly optimistic assumption about the state of my wardrobe. In fact, I've seen her dressed fairly casually, but always chic and modern. She's my hero.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I don't agree with your analogies. You put on suit to the interview to impress/show respect for the interviewee. You put on a suit for court to show respect for the judge. You dress up for church to show respect for God, or the pastor. Who is disrespected if you don't dress up at a restaurant? Do you think the chef cares? The other diners?

I got called out by another patron once for wearing jeans to a play at the Kennedy Center. She said it showed a lack of respect to the performers. I told her I had been an actor for most of my life, and all the performers care about is that the people watching the play are comfortable. That's how I feel about restaurants as well.

this pretty much sums it up for me.

In regards to the theater, opera, National Symphony, etc. I'm pretty sure they're just happy to have people attending and couldn't care less how people are dressed. They're dying art forms and the view that they're just for the rich is a driving force behind it. And the one of the reasons it is viewed that way was because of the perceived dress code and using it to create class divisions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an interesting thread. So many people are talking about "jeans." I wear jeans. I wore them to Fiola. With a sport coat. I wore jeans to Estadio a week before. With a long sleeve shirt.

I would not go to either restaurant with shorts, a t shirt and flip flops. I would wear them to a crab house. But not a steak house.

This is not about simply dressing "casual." It is about dressing respectfully for an occasion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this pretty much sums it up for me.

In regards to the theater, opera, National Symphony, etc. I'm pretty sure they're just happy to have people attending and couldn't care less how people are dressed. They're dying art forms and the view that they're just for the rich is a driving force behind it. And the one of the reasons it is viewed that way was because of the perceived dress code and using it to create class divisions.

I must tell you: "they're dying art forms and the view that they're just for the rich is a driving force behind it."

Wow. Just wow. I've stood breathless in opera houses as recently as several days ago, feeling indeed fortunate to experience them. On my bucket list is watching the opera in the 2000 year old amphitheatre in Verona-which we will do in late August. Your believing this is a "dying art form" is just a remarkable statement.

We have different values. And I drove a cab through college and for a number of years after... In fact my father was a cab driver after WWII and my mother was a waitress. Yet I enjoy the opera.

Of course my mother liked the Nashville opera...the Grand Old Opry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this pretty much sums it up for me.

In regards to the theater, opera, National Symphony, etc. I'm pretty sure they're just happy to have people attending and couldn't care less how people are dressed. They're dying art forms and the view that they're just for the rich is a driving force behind it. And the one of the reasons it is viewed that way was because of the perceived dress code and using it to create class divisions.

Yeah, the old class warfare thing.

I suppose it makes no difference to the dining experience if the tables are formica instead of linened, if plastic forks are used inmstead of silve, and if the wine is decanted into a milk jug.

A "fine dining experience" consists of a thousand little details, and the decorm and dress of the others in the restaurant are not insignificant among them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must tell you: "they're dying art forms and the view that they're just for the rich is a driving force behind it."

Wow. Just wow. I've stood breathless in opera houses as recently as several days ago, feeling indeed fortunate to experience them. On my bucket list is watching the opera in the 2000 year old amphitheatre in Verona-which we will do in late August. Your believing this is a "dying art form" is just a remarkable statement.

We have different values. And I drove a cab through college and for a number of years after... In fact my father was a cab driver after WWII and my mother was a waitress. Yet I enjoy the opera.

Of course my mother liked the Nashville opera...the Grand Old Opry.

It's not a belief, it's a fact. The attendance is down across the board. The average age of it's attendees is increasing year after year and unless younger people start embracing it, it will be dead. This is why generation o exists, and quite honestly the class issue is part of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you think the chef cares? The other diners?

I got called out by another patron once for wearing jeans to a play at the Kennedy Center. She said it showed a lack of respect to the performers. I told her I had been an actor for most of my life, and all the performers care about is that the people watching the play are comfortable. That's how I feel about restaurants as well.

Some chefs probably care, and some diners care, in fact, several diners are telling you that they care. If no one cares, then we wouldn't be talking about it.

Next, how could you possibly know what all the performers care about? Are all actors liberals? Are all lawyers conservatives? When some lady is belting out an aria, is she thinking - I just hope the audience is comfortable? Or is she thinking about how mnay roses will be tossed at her feet by tuxedoed gentlemen after the performance?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, the old class warfare thing.

I suppose it makes no difference to the dining experience if the tables are formica instead of linened, if plastic forks are used inmstead of silve, and if the wine is decanted into a milk jug.

A "fine dining experience" consists of a thousand little details, and the decorm and dress of the others in the restaurant are not insignificant among them.

mocking something doesn't mean it's not real. Class warfare still exists and this thread is a pretty good example of it. 99% y'all.

Comparing what a restaurant decides to put in place for the experience of their customers (which can and does include an explicit dress code) vs what people choose to wear in the absence of one isn't apples to apples. This entire conversation has been about customers judging customers about things that don't matter. If the restaurant doesn't feel like a patron fits their mission, it's their determination whether or not to serve that person. It's not the snob at the next table over who doesn't think someones jeans are designer enough to fit their definition of smart casual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some chefs probably care, and some diners care, in fact, several diners are telling you that they care. If no one cares, then we wouldn't be talking about it.

Next, how could you possibly know what all the performers care about? Are all actors liberals? Are all lawyers conservatives? When some lady is belting out an aria, is she thinking - I just hope the audience is comfortable? Or is she thinking about how mnay roses will be tossed at her feet by tuxedoed gentlemen after the performance?

if chefs care, then they'd set a strict dress code and enforce it, because they don't, then it's pretty clear that they don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[This has been a great conversation, but it has turned south in the past few hours, and there's a factional rift developing. Our strength is in our differences, and we must respect that there are two very polar views emerging here, both of which have merit. Let's all be friends in the process, whatcha say?

I really think the problem here is that people are starting to generalize by saying "restaurants this" and "customers that." Different restaurants, different situations, different strokes. Please respect one another even if you disagree. Think what we're arguing about here - it's not like we're discussing world hunger.

"Yes it is! Don't you see that ..."

NO, IT ISN'T! Deep breath! Ohhhhmmmmm. :P]

And anyone who says unmoderated websites are best can play clack-ball with my testicles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if chefs care, then they'd set a strict dress code and enforce it, because they don't, then it's pretty clear that they don't.

That's some wonky logic. Some chefs do care and they do have dress codes, but they're not willing to strictly enforce them because that means lost revenue. It doesn't mean they don't care.

I also think people are discussing different sets of facts. I'm referring to situations where a restaurant has a dress code and some patrons aren't complying. I'm not talking about going to some place with no dress code. I know my first post is about style but the topic here is about dress code compliance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's some wonky logic. Some chefs do care and they do have dress codes, but they're not willing to strictly enforce them because that means lost revenue. It doesn't mean they don't care.

I also think people are discussing different sets of facts. I'm referring to situations where a restaurant has a dress code and some patrons aren't complying. I'm not talking about going to some place with no dress code. I know my first post is about style but the topic here is about dress code compliance.

no, if you care about something, you enforce it. if money and patronage mean more than a dress code, then it's the most explicit way to demonstrate that it's not a priority to the restaurant so why should it be to you, just another customer?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may be time to let this thread die, but I have one more thought about it that is interesting to me: I think that the way this plays out, on this site and in our city, is very much an artifact of the particular and pretty odd culture of Washington DC.

We have (1) a lingering but almost-gone old South element of the culture, (2) a dominant downtown industry (i.e., Government power players and those who cater to them or try to influence them) of which old-fashioned 20th century business attire is a major signifier of in-group status, (3) tourists, who dress differently and who annoy most of us residents in one way or another (how they dress, how they stand on the escalator, how they take up the parking spaces, etc.) even while our service industries are dependent on them; and (4) a segment of residents with enough money and interests to go to the "good" restaurants who are not part of the local power game and not part of the necktie-or-business-dress establishment and are happy about that (not only me but also (I am guessing) the commenter above with the Minor Threat avatar) . All of these things, together, lead to the conflict.

There was an article about this "dress code" issue in the Post a few years ago, in which pro-dress-code folks took the position, "That casual stuff may be fine in California, but this is DC." But DC, like all places, changes eventually - even while the people who like the old customs of the local elite say (as their counterparts have said, ever since at least as far back as ancient Rome) that the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose it makes no difference to the dining experience if the tables are formica instead of linened, if plastic forks are used inmstead of silve, and if the wine is decanted into a milk jug.

A "fine dining experience" consists of a thousand little details, and the decorm and dress of the others in the restaurant are not insignificant among them.

Of course it makes a difference to the experience, but you have to draw the line somewhere. I'm paying for the nice decor, the pretty decanter, and the fine linen...I expect them to be at a certain level. But I'm not paying for society as a whole to dress how I feel is proper.

Let me make it clear again, a restaurant has a right to a firm dress code, and I will abide by it if I want to eat there. That's their right. And as a diner at a place with a specific dress code, you have a right to expect everyone to follow it.

But if a restaurant isn't specific in what what they want, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned.

The last time I was at Inn at Little Washington, the dress was all over the place, from suits, to jeans and polo shirts. Didn't affect my meal one bit. Don't know what their dress code is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it is a matter. At ....... almost ten years ago a group of eight people were seated next to us. Three of the men had t shirts, shorts and either flip flops or sneakers. They were also noisy. There are all kinds of description of casual from smart to dressy, etc. Then, there is for lack of a better description: beach casual. It might work in Ocean City or even Santa Monica-it might even be the norm but is inappropriate in a restaurant on K street where dinner can run $100 or more a person.

I asked the host on duty if there was a dress code when we left noting how several were dressed at the table next to us. He said something like they resisted enforcing anything since so many tourists visited them.

I left a good bit of this quoted because of a similar experience.

Let's start this way: anyone who has met me knows how I dress. I dress better now, actually, than I used to, but still probably 90% of the time when I go out, I wear jeans. I do not wear shorts anymore (though I'm hoping that may change this summer, it'd make NOLA a lot more comfortable!). I wear khakis for work, and just don't care for the feel of them. Otherwise, if I'm dressing up, I'm wearing a suit (perhaps sans tie), or I'm wearing jeans with a button up shirt (and possibly a sweater).

I try to dress appropriate for the occasion and restaurant, but if I don't know where I'm going - say, I'm going barhopping, or we're just going "out" - that's how I'll dress, as it's appropriate for most places. At worst, it's not DISTRACTING.

More than a few years ago a very good friend of mine picked a rather disappointing but pretentious and pricey restaurant (no longer around) for his birthday dinner. We dressed appropriate as by their dress code. Despite the food, we were having quite a good time. This was in August.

We were between two tables. One was a table of all women, dressed in much more casual dresses than the ladies at are table. But it was not bad.

The other table was full of tourists. Shorts, t-shirts, fanny packs, the works. The only way they could have been more stereotypical was if they were standing on the left on a Metro escalator.

Honestly, they weren't embarrassed, but we were. It's like being at a party and the one guy who is way drunker than everyone else decides to get naked. (I know that feeling from both sides! Uhh...never mind...)

We asked the hostess, and got a very similar answer - they simply can't really enforce the dress codes, because it'd cost them too much business.

Personally, I hate the way most dress codes are labeled. "Smart casual". If I have to Google a dress code, I'm annoyed. And that's just for me, I don't even pretend to understand how dress codes pertain to women. Just tell me "no shorts", "dress shoes", "no blue jeans", "jacket required", or something like that. I don't go to clubs, but I like how specific they are in dress codes (at times, I guess, from what I've seen).

I do my best to dress so as not to embarrass my friends or myself. I've not the time or inclination to be a fashion plate. I see things more in broad strokes - jackets & ties, long pants and dress shirts, or shorts and t-shirts. I know a lot of us non-GQ subscribing types ( :D :D ) feel the same way (particularly those of us in the IT field).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whenever my family is in town, or we are traveling together, at least one person insists on going back to change before dinner because they feel whatever they wore for touristing (usually the culprit is a t-shirt, jeans and sneakers) will be out of place where we are dinning that night. Since I hardly ever wear those things, its not me, but my midwestern family has enough sense to know you don't go to a nice place looking like a schlub.

And I don't believe its a socioeconomic issue at all - its a matter of being raised with social awareness and manners. Decent looking clothes are cheap these days anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mocking something doesn't mean it's not real. Class warfare still exists and this thread is a pretty good example of it. 99% y'all.

I think the suggestion that whether or not you dress up is based on whether you're rich or poor is a pretty condescending view of matters.

I agree with Sheldman--DC has changed. But I think this might have been spurred more by the change in Administration than the gradual erosion of fanciness. I work for a USG agency, and the change in the manner of dress between the extremely conservative, dull, suit-and-low-heels-and-stockings wearing Bush appointees and the tattooed, short-skirt-and-tank-top wearing Obama appointees gave me whiplash. (I fall somewhere in the middle, thankyouverymuch.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the suggestion that whether or not you dress up is based on whether you're rich or poor is a pretty condescending view of matters.

It is, but my statement was actually that peoples dress is being used to generate class based judgement and reinforcing class rifts. Sophisticated big city folks looking down on the poor rubes in their fanny packs and flip flops.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who wears a jacket these days? All of my jobs have been business casual since the 1990s. If someone comes in with a jacket, the obvious question everyone asks is where is the interview? I can't believe that anyone would think that a jacket should be required at a restaurant. And really, how does what I wear impact another diner's meal? I spend most of my time looking at the people seated at my table and NOT trying to judge the other customers.

I get dress codes, but come on. If you're having such a nice time eating tasty food with someone at an expensive restaurant and all you can focus on is some other guy's disrespectful polo shirt, that's pretty weird to me...But seriously, blame the restaurant for not enforcing a dress code, not the person wearing what they're allowed to wear.
Please, get over yourself. Most people learn by the time they're in kindergarten that they're not the center of the universe. Most people probably couldn't care less that the "very visual person" at the next table requires everyone to dress by their very particular dress code. BTW, the word is "aesthetics" not "ascetics." Maybe the emphasis on being so visual has hindered the development of vocabulary and/or spelling?

I occasionally wear a jacket. I always check to see if a restaurant has a dress code, and my wife always asks me if a restaurant has a dress code. We do wear jeans to restaurants when their dress code is "business casual," because we realized no restaurant turns customers away in jeans if their dress code contains the word "casual." I believe that a restaurant can impose any dress code it pleases, and people should comply with such dress codes. I do blame the restaurant for not enforcing the dress code as much as the customer who willfully ignores the dress code. The only peole not at fault are the other diners and yet they're the only ones that suffers - is there a solution? Next time I see someone being seated not complying with the dress-code, I suppose I can get up and leave and refuse to pay? The last quote is particularly insulting. The person who doesn't comply with the dress code is telling the people who do comply that they're self-centered :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, if Eve didn't require a jacket for dinner, we probably would have been there by now. Not because I don't own a jacket or enjoy wearing one, but because my wife is so turned off by how ALL of their websites are written. Do they suffer by not having me as customer? Absolutely not.

Also considering the fact that I would never wear a jacket while eating, I almost always disrobe before sitting down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only people not at fault are the other diners and yet they're the only ones that suffers - is there a solution?

Suffers? Really?

Look, I believe in dressing to the restaurant's code, if there is one. If someone doesn't however, it has absolutely no impact on me. I've never enjoyed a meal one iota less because someone is under-dressed. I can accept that it bugs some people...everyone has their pet peeves...but let's not go overboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Suffers? Really?

Look, I believe in dressing to the restaurant's code, if there is one. If someone doesn't however, it has absolutely no impact on me. I've never enjoyed a meal one iota less because someone is under-dressed. I can accept that it bugs some people...everyone has their pet peeves...but let's not go overboard.

If you accept that it bugs other people, then what's wrong the the usage of the term "suffer"? It means to undergo, be subjected to, or endure (pain, distress, injury, loss, or anything unpleasant).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Suffer" implies, at the very least, significant unpleasantness.

"Bugs" implies looking at the poorly dressed people, rolling your eyes, and getting back to your meal.

According to your defintion, it more than "bugs" me. And I know it more than "bugs" some other people. Frankly, it has a negative effect on my dining experience, but not enough to want to kill myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ask this not to be a jerk...I'm seriously curious.

Why does it bother you so much?

It REALLY bothers me. Deep down to my core. I suffer it. It has to do with my upbringing. Anyone on this sight who has ever met me in person probably understands because I take the way I dress very seriously. I grew up with VERY southern parents, a particularly demanding and strict Father (who had such class and social grace) AND an Amish nanny. It was very important to present yourself to others as respectful and proper at all times. As a child this meant having good table and social manners, but also in dress, no dirt under the fingernails, hair done nicely. Dressing for any occasion was a sign of respect to whomever you were with, the occasion and the fact that you were a guest or patron. I can't go to a "come in any type of dress" type church, it just seems so disrespectful. I don't know. I think some Southerner's who were raised with parents like mine just see it as highly disrespectful. If I look inappropriate- it's a disgrace to me, my husband, my family, where I was raised and it is disrespectful to those I am with. I truly absolutely believe that. Seeing other people doing it makes me feel like they weren't raised right. It's the same feeling I get when kids are misbehaving in a restaurant, or when I hear someone being obnoxious to their server, etc. It makes me feel bad inside.

But I also am an attorney who is in court quite often and wears a jacket all the time. I see a lot of people dress inappropriately for court, and that makes me mad (it makes Virginia judges REALLY mad). In Virginia if you are a woman you even need to take note of where you are going to be in court, some jurisdictions I only wear skirt suits, as they are very formal and old fashioned. I have learned throughout life that the way you are treated and the opportunities you get in life are very much dependent on how you present and represent yourself. I take it very seriously. (Yes, yes, I know I could never live on the West Coast.) It just really bothers me when other people don't think what they wear matters to anyone or affects them or anyone else in any way. But this is just one in a number of many habits that people have that really bother me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also resent people who think rules don't apply to them.

Not directly related to restaurant dress codes, but I find positively astonishing the number of motor vehicles in Washington to which "NO STANDING" rules don't apply: delivery vehicles, idling buses, cars with flashers on, cars without flashers on, cars that are only going to be there for a few minutes.... These remarkable vehicles may be found up and down the length of Connecticut Avenue every rush hour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...