Rogue 24, Blagden Alley in Mount Vernon Square - 2007 James Beard Winner RJ Cooper Departs on Dec 31, 2015 - Closed Jan 15, 2016

[Waitman]

I would love to hear your take on airport security measures!

If I put them on the web, they'd put me on a list.

But, flying is a necessary evil and not a pleasurable luxury.

[porcupine]

Perhaps it would help to think of it not as a restaurant, but as a theater, which seems to be RJ's intent: he's performing for us. It feels more like an evening's entertainment then dining (I expect; haven't been). Signing a contract with those terms is like buying a ticket.

[Waitman]

Perhaps it would help to think of it not as a restaurant, but as a theater, which seems to be RJ's intent: he's performing for us. It feels more like an evening's entertainment then dining (I expect; haven't been). Signing a contract with those terms is like buying a ticket.

That would be stretching the whole concept quite a bit -- they are cooks, after all, not thespians -- and the core action is eating, not observing and listening.

Nonetheless, as someone pointed out upthread, there exist secondary markets for tickets. When I went to del Posto, I was stuck with paying for my reservations if I didn't show. If I couldn't make the play beforehand, however, Craigslist would have allowed me to sell the tickets. Besides, we at Donrockwell generally look down on dinner as theater.

Similarly, some artistic troupes -- the National Symphony, among them -- have generous trade-in procedures where a concert-goer can swap tickets for another performance if they are unable to attend.

Let me make it clear that I understand -- though dislike -- the need to put my credit card up. Regardless of how it's spun, however, it is at best ungracious and at worse a slur on a status as gentleman of my word.

But the contract -- foisting a legal document on me -- feels like a power play.

[danfishe]

Does no cell phone = no blackberry? I have no problem with restaurants banning phone conversations in the dining room (a good idea actually) but the reality is that many folks, especially those who frequent high-end restaurants, simply can't go 3 hours without checking e-mail, especially on a week night. Not sure I see the issue with silent use of smart phones.

[Ericandblueboy]

Let me make it clear that I understand -- though dislike -- the need to put my credit card up. Regardless of how it's spun, however, it is at best ungracious and at worse a slur on a status as gentleman of my word.

But the contract -- foisting a legal document on me -- feels like a power play.

You could cancel the reservation in advance and not get charged, which is probably better than reselling or swapping. Putting up a credit card may be a hassle but you do that to book hotel rooms, no? Do you boycott all hotels since they don't trust you to show up? The contract is also commonplace these days when you book a hotel room or a tee time (although it's usually embedded in the reservation process). You agree to show up or cancel in advance. If you don't, they charge you a penalty for screwing them over. The contract doesn't bother me as much as the effort it takes to get it done. It should be as simple as clicking an "accept" button while you're making the reservation online.

[dcs]

I cannot find the clause that says they will discount the meal price if my full party is there on time but they seat us late for our reservation. I guess I'll keep looking.

[DanCole42]

There are two possibilities:

1) You show up for dinner. In which case, who cares about signing a contract saying you're promising to do something you're going to do anyway? I'll sign a contract saying I'm going to wipe my ass, it's no sweat off my back.

2) You don't show up for dinner. In which case, you're either a dick and the restaurant has every right to retribution, or there's been an emergency and I'm sure the restaurant would be accommodating.

[clayrae]

I have been thinking about this quite a bit, as I just signed a “Reservation Agreement” for my upcoming dinner at CityZen. I didn’t like doing it, but didn’t find it off-putting enough to cancel. (Interestingly, no documents were involved in my upcoming dinner at The French Laundry…)

I also don’t disagree with the requirements laid out in Rogue24’s document. Don’t be late, don’t cancel at the last minute, don’t make an ass of yourself in the dining room with a cell phone. These things *should* be known to anyone who dines in public and show respect for the chefs, staff, and other diners.

Of course common courtesy is less than common in current society, and most restaurants have some sort of documented rules in order to make sure everyone is on the same page. I have no problem with that.

So why won’t I sign, and therefore eat, at Rogue24? Because their document comes off as accusatory and defensive:

“Rogue24 only seats..”

“we reserve the right..”

“your reservation will be void…”

“We do not book parties…”

“Rogue24 does not mix…”

“may be subjected to a discretionary surcharge…

“We ask all guests to refrain…”

“If Rogue24 does not receive the document the reservation will be canceled…”

“entire table must participate..”

“Rogue24 will not be able to accommodate any specials needs…”

Woah. Onlys, and nots, and musts there. Suddenly this doesn’t sound like very much fun at all.

Also, as previously mentioned, nearly completely one sided. Rogue24 has covered themselves here. I am clear on what I CANNOT do… but what exactly am I signing up for here? Do I have any rights? Flexibility? Do I have any recourse if I am not happy?

[DaRiv18]

But the contract -- foisting a legal document on me -- feels like a power play.

Aha! I didn't think the issue here was really about the money -- it's really about this contract.

Maybe the cleaner alternative is just to require that you pay for the meal 72 hours in advance. That's it, no fuss, no ultimatums. If you want booze or extras, they bring you a check for those extra impulse buys to your table at the end of the meal. If you show up more than 30 minutes late, hey, there's still 12 or 20 courses to be had.

This is probably a bigger power-play than a contract, but at least you don't deal with a lengthy document which I concede is off-putting (though probably justified). And it's definitely a more low-key approach.

[Choirgirl21]

So how is the food?

[Joe H]

So how is the food?

This is really a shame that there is such a focus on this when we should be talking about the food.

[DonRocks]

What's a four-letter word denoting compliance? ...

What's an eight-letter word denoting compliance? ...

Click (if over 18).

[B.A.R.]

This is really a shame that there is such a focus on this when we should be talking about the food.

Would love to, but despite being in the 95th percentile of American households, I can't afford to eat there. Contract or no contract.

Rogue24 is luxurious dining, for the uber-affluent. None of the demographic that this restaurant is geared to will probably bat an eye at the contract. And the resulting press from said contract has certainly raised awareness of the restaurant, locally and nationally. No such thing as bad press, right?

At any rate, unless RJ opens a Rogue 12, or better yet a rogue8, my last meal of his food will have been at Vidalia. At the bar.

[Keithstg]

So how is the food?

Hopefully great, we'll weigh in after our dinner on 9/10. Had no issue signing the contract whatsoever - just looking forward to the experience!

[DonRocks]

Would love to, but despite being in the 95th percentile of American households, I can't afford to eat there. Contract or no contract.

Rogue24 is luxurious dining, for the uber-affluent. None of the demographic that this restaurant is geared to will probably bat an eye at the contract. And the resulting press from said contract has certainly raised awareness of the restaurant, locally and nationally. No such thing as bad press, right?

At any rate, unless RJ opens a Rogue 12, or better yet a rogue8, my last meal of his food will have been at Vidalia. At the bar.

How much would you pay for Rogue-Áine?

[Waitman]

Aha! I didn't think the issue here was really about the money -- it's really about this contract.

Maybe the cleaner alternative is just to require that you pay for the meal 72 hours in advance. That's it, no fuss, no ultimatums. If you want booze or extras, they bring you a check for those extra impulse buys to your table at the end of the meal. If you show up more than 30 minutes late, hey, there's still 12 or 20 courses to be had.

This is probably a bigger power-play than a contract, but at least you don't deal with a lengthy document which I concede is off-putting (though probably justified). And it's definitely a more low-key approach.

I'm thinking a credit check with the reservation and, should you venture into the pricey end of the wine list, a little collateral. Car keys or eldest child or something.

The contract lifts what was already annoying but arguably understandable to a legal confrontation. Perhaps diners should demand clauses specifying recourse should the appetizers be too fey, the dining room staff arrogant or the entree served cold (in a town as full of lawyers can this be far behind? I can see powerful attorneys faxing counter-proposals to expensive restaurants even as I type, with Mark Kuller, eager to take friends to dinner at his own establishment, retaining outside counsel for both sides of the negotiations to prevent entangling himself in a conflict of interest ).

Part of the pleasure of fine dining for those of us not driven, smart or lucky enough to be rich is the chance to be Cinderella at the ball for a few hours. We suspend disbelief: chefs are not tradesmen, they are "artists;" servers exist not to upsell us bottled water and unwanted desserts, but to grant us, genii-like, our every wish; and the staff is more concerned with our well-being than our wallets. Sure, we're kidding ourselves, but the illusion is part of the experience and chipping away at it before one has a chance even to amuse one's bouche diminishes the experience.

This is really a shame that there is such a focus on this when we should be talking about the food.

Au contraire, my well-traveled friend. This is a fine and interesting conversation that speaks to an increasing trend in the restaurant industry.

Though -- as I suggested earlier -- I do think it would be a fine topic as a stand-alone.

[jparrott]

As long as they give me the Chinese menu without my having to ask for it, I'm good.

[will_5198]

At any rate, unless RJ opens a Rogue 12, or better yet a rogue8, my last meal of his food will have been at Vidalia. At the bar.

On that note, I'm still waiting for more information on a la carte in the Salon. From what I can tell, the Salon space has no bar or dining tables -- how will dishes be served (and eaten)? As small bites with a cocktail, eaten sans plating like hors d'oeuvres?

[darkstar965]

....

Cell phones: use in the salon bathrooms and other areas but the dining room are acceptable. I was taught by my mama (Don you met her) that playing with toys at the dinner table were forbiden.

...

Does no cell phone = no blackberry? I have no problem with restaurants banning phone conversations in the dining room (a good idea actually) but the reality is that many folks, especially those who frequent high-end restaurants, simply can't go 3 hours without checking e-mail, especially on a week night. Not sure I see the issue with silent use of smart phones.

Exactly what I was thinking on this issue as well. I'm not sure most "mamas" taught absolutes about tactics or tools (especially regarding ones that didn't exist at the time) but, rather, taught right and wrong about timeless and bedrock values and principles. Things like 'treat others as you want to be treated' and 'be respectful of others' desire for privacy,' etc, etc. A ringing phone in a fine dining room probably violates those ethics by any reasonable measure in a way mama couldn't have even imagined. A discrete and necessary look at an email-enabled but silent smartphone may or may not be disruptive wholly dependent on how someone steals such a glance and whether it's even noticeable by others. Chef has already said this is okay in the salon and elsewhere outside the main dining room which strikes me as reasonable. Today is a different world from the one in which those of us older than 30 grew up. Hopefully basic courtesies and values won't ever change but specific rules and behaviors must change with everything else that changes around us.

You could cancel the reservation in advance and not get charged, which is probably better than reselling or swapping. Putting up a credit card may be a hassle but you do that to book hotel rooms, no? Do you boycott all hotels since they don't trust you to show up? The contract is also commonplace these days when you book a hotel room or a tee time (although it's usually embedded in the reservation process). You agree to show up or cancel in advance. If you don't, they charge you a penalty for screwing them over. The contract doesn't bother me as much as the effort it takes to get it done. It should be as simple as clicking an "accept" button while you're making the reservation online.

Three main things differ between the hotel analogy and R24. First, though the practices of upfront credit cards and contracts exist with restaurants, they are not the norm with restaurants as they are with hotels. Two, R24 is a new restaurant whose reputation will be built and solidified in the months and years to come. Maybe a bit soon to compare it to El Bulli, Calandre or French Laundry? Though, for the record, I won't be surprised if R24 achieves that kind of enduring national and international status. Third, nearly all the hotels I stay in allow cancellation by 5 or 6pm day of arrival. Yes, true that hotels have very different economics than a high end restaurant with equally high ingredient costs. I cite this simply because many analogies don't serve well unless fully considered. And, totally agree on the effort point (the contract should be a 2-minute online exercise if really necessary) which ties into the spirit of all this which clayrae captured perfectly (below).

...So why won’t I sign, and therefore eat, at Rogue24? Because their document comes off as accusatory and defensive:

“Rogue24 only seats..”

“we reserve the right..”

“your reservation will be void…”

“We do not book parties…”

“Rogue24 does not mix…”

“may be subjected to a discretionary surcharge…

“We ask all guests to refrain…”

“If Rogue24 does not receive the document the reservation will be canceled…”

“entire table must participate..”

“Rogue24 will not be able to accommodate any specials needs…”

Woah. Onlys, and nots, and musts there. Suddenly this doesn’t sound like very much fun at all.

Also, as previously mentioned, nearly completely one sided. Rogue24 has covered themselves here. I am clear on what I CANNOT do… but what exactly am I signing up for here? Do I have any rights? Flexibility? Do I have any recourse if I am not happy?

Loved this post as it captured what I hadn't in my own posts and thinking so far. All the pros and cons about cell phones, cameras and contracts aside, communication and language matter because they convey sentiment. I think R24 could probably achieve what it wants to achieve with a more hospitable, welcoming and kind spirit in its writing. Sounds like the R24 team is doing that very well onsite at the restaurant but the website, contract and other written messaging are all that those who've yet to make their first visit have to consider. Kinder and more empathetic writing that makes people feel more welcome would probably go a longer way toward achieving R24s goals than even a dynamite photo of course #17. Maybe all the uproar about the contract online, well beyond dr.com, makes some editing at least worth considering? After all, folks who write here and elsewhere have deep interest in food and restaurants. No doubt we all want the good ones to thrive and stick around.

Be the best in what you do. Be as nice and as charitable as possible in how you do it.

[lion]

Eater's interview with RJ Cooper and the revised agreement.

[darkstar965]

Eater's interview with RJ Cooper and the revised agreement.

Three reactions to this:

1. it exudes reasonableness in a way the contract language didn't and perhaps still doesn't as much as it might. Many won't read the Eater piece. Why not bake some of that kinder, gentler and more reasonable thinking directly into the contract itself?

2. The one thing missing I'd have loved to have read in the Eater interview? An apology. It's not a big deal. It doesn't cost anything to do. It tends to strengthen, versus pierce, any armor. If none of this was about arrogance, what better way to show humility than to simply say at the outset "first off, sorry, we're new and we're swamped but those shouldn't be excuses. We got it wrong. We're sorry. We're fixing it." Done.

3. My eyebrows raised most at this quote:

We had a gentleman in on Saturday who couldn’t eat chicken, almonds, spinach, arugula and blue cheese. Are we going to say no to him? No, that would be arrogant. But since we had the reservation agreement in hand, we could write him a menu.

Wow!! Clearly very few restaurants will go to that length. To have graciously said no to that customer wouldn't have been "arrogant" to me since there's a limit to what's feasible. But love that the Chef felt that way and accommodated his customer, who I'm sure was absolutely delighted with what he experienced. Makes me want to go sooner.

[Adam23]

Have you had cancellations?

Absolutely. We had a cancellation today; the woman’s sick. What are we going to do? Charge her? No, she’s sick

.

At least RJ is nicer than Momofuku. My guest was sick and I was out $300. (Though I did agree to a contract there).

Anyhow, I don't think the contract thing is a big deal. Eve has made me do it a number of times and I really didn't think twice about it. That being said, El Bulli and Alinea didn't make me fill out a contract, I didn't need to choose my menu or pairing beforehand and I could take all the photos I wanted.

[DanCole42]

This REALLY should be its own thread.

I want to hear about the food and the experience at Rogue 24 and live vicariously through diners until I manage to find a good time to go and pester RJ's team with my incessant questions.

If I wanted to hear from people suffering from an overdeveloped sense of righteous indignation, I'd go on the Internet. "Not being offended" is not a right.

[goldenticket]

Perhaps it would help to think of it not as a restaurant, but as a theater, which seems to be RJ's intent: he's performing for us. It feels more like an evening's entertainment then dining (I expect; haven't been). Signing a contract with those terms is like buying a ticket.

Buying a ticket is the case at Next, where theater does seem to be part of the intent. I like the idea of a clean transaction, taken care of in advance.

As for Rogue 24, I can certainly understand the restaurant's need to protect their investment. Kudos to them for being responsive to the, um, 'feedback' on the contract and making some changes.

ETA: the link is to a NYTimes review - a quite well-written review, IMHO.

[Barbara]

3. My eyebrows raised most at this quote:

Wow!! Clearly very few restaurants will go to that length. To have graciously said no to that customer wouldn't have been "arrogant" to me since there's a limit to what's feasible. But love that the Chef felt that way and accommodated his customer, who I'm sure was absolutely delighted with what he experienced. Makes me want to go sooner.

I'm not surprised. I went to Vidalia at lunch with someone who has a long list of allergies and RJ came out, sat with us, and went over the possibilities. Then, he produced a lovely meal she could eat. He seemed to enjoy the challenge. I still won't be going to Rogue 24, but not because of any of these "controversies." I won't go because I don't like eating so many courses of a bite or two--not to mention the cost. Which explains why I have never eaten at Komi or Minibar and have no plans to unless somebody else is paying and insists that I do.

[Waitman]

If I wanted to hear from people suffering from an overdeveloped sense of righteous indignation, I'd go on the Internet.

Same place I go to hear from shallow whiners.

But, you're right. Having a discussion (one that seems to exist far beyond this site, which suggests significance, if not importance) about a key aspect of a new restaurant's customer service is surely less important the culinary equivalent of having your buddy go into painful detail about how he felt up Mary Lou after the dance, so you can can picture it later on, when you're alone.

*****

On a related note, when I got home, my wife asked if we should try to get a reservation at Rogue 24 for our anniversary. "Only if the reservation is under your name," I replied. The thing about open kitchens - they can't spit in your food.

[RJ Cooper]

I have been following this board for a long time and have great amount of respect for all on this board. The people whom express their feelings on DR, we have taken as a training tool to better our restaurant (as young as it is) and in my past restaurant.

But holly shit people this has more controversy then michigan vs. ohio state or the donkeys battling the elephants on the hill on how to balance a budget.

Let me just weigh in a few ideas I have been thinking about.

Going to a restaurant is supposed to have an entertaining value. When purchasing my last widespread panic tickets at warner theater (yes both days it rocked) I had to 1. offer up my credit card. 2. I couldn't cancel to get my money back if I was close to death. 3. There was no one for me to call and say hay dude I'm sick can I cancel tonight? I really want to go but may I have my 200 bucks back because I'm sick. Nope no one there to hear me.

Okay now there is an Asst. GM from a hotel on this thread. Fact number 1. You must reserve the room with a credit card. Got it. 2. If you cancel within 24 hours your subjected to pay the rate of the night. Understand that as well. So when I called the hotel on my last trip that I had to cancel at the last minute I was on the hook for a night in NYC for 300+ bucks. I had to jump through hoops to try and recover my money back. Didn't happen.

When a guest at a hotel NO SHOWS they are on the hook as well. They actually charge their customers (they aren't guests at that point) for not even staying. Hotels, airlines, doctors ect. ect. have a much larger revenue center then a 52 seat dining room.

We want to make, meet and go beyond our GUESTS' expectations. We need to know information so we as craftspeople can create a dining experience that will accommodate all of our guests' needs even if they are vegan or for instance tonight pregnant.

Tonight we served 52 guests with only 2 of the 52 having the 16 course progression menu. We counted at 845 pm 18 people with their cell phones out. So tell me the difference between Citronelle which makes a demand on you to wear a jacket during dinner ( I hate jackets and ties, men have asked me at r24 if they may take their ties off I say wtf take all you clothes off I don't care just enjoy the experience) or us saying please refrain from using a cell phone in our dining room, we have a salon and bathrooms. tweet, text, sext, facebook, email or whatever you want to do in these areas.

Has society actually become so attached to a cell phone that they cant put it away for a couple hours and actually enjoy an experience? Imagine this you are out with a companion go home, have a night cap, all of a sudden bam your making out, feeling each other, then you go to bed, would you stop this experience to tweet, hay im about to get some nookie all. NO we would enjoy the experience.

Don this thread is ready to end.

Our reservation agreement is just a tool for us to better serve you all , our guests.

We appreciate all the feedback and have enjoyed the comments on this board and other blogs. R24 didnt do this to gain any publicity, we just wanted to better serve the people.

The salon is open for a la carte, it is small plates, priced accordingly to what the plates are, some of the dishes are larger then what we do serve during the tasting menus.

Thanks all.

RJ

[RJ Cooper]

Same place I go to hear from shallow whiners.

But, you're right. Having a discussion (one that seems to exist far beyond this site, which suggests significance, if not importance) about a key aspect of a new restaurant's customer service is surely less important the culinary equivalent of having your buddy go into painful detail about how he felt up Mary Lou after the dance, so you can can picture it later on, when you're alone.

*****

On a related note, when I got home, my wife asked if we should try to get a reservation at Rogue 24 for our anniversary. "Only if the reservation is under your name," I replied. The thing about open kitchens - they can't spit in your food.

Charles you can always come in. I have a wall for you peeps to tag as well.

We are priding ourselves in customer service why the hell would we care about dietary restrictions if we didnt?

[DanCole42]

But holly shit people this has more controversy then michigan vs. ohio state or the donkeys battling the elephants on the hill on how to balance a budget.

What controversy? GO BLUE!

[dcandohio]

What controversy? GO BLUE!

ahem...GO BUCKEYES!!!!!!!!!!!!

[B.A.R.]

I'm wondering if this contract was in place on day 1, or if it has been an addition since opening? I recall an interview with Nick Kokonas where he said Alinea was in danger of "losing money for the night if a table did not show."

I applaud the Rogue 24 team for trying to change the restaurant experience paradigm, and (again) Grant Achatz actually sells tickets to his new establishment. I know first-hand how no-shows/late cancels can have an adverse effect on a restaurants nightly performance; not to mention a servers earnings.

But I don't know whether the possible financial savings of this contract will outweigh the booking resistence it is likely to engender.

Would love to, but despite being in the 95th percentile of American households, I can't afford to eat there. Contract or no contract.

Rogue24 is luxurious dining, for the uber-affluent. None of the demographic that this restaurant is geared to will probably bat an eye at the contract. And the resulting press from said contract has certainly raised awareness of the restaurant, locally and nationally. No such thing as bad press, right?

At any rate, unless RJ opens a Rogue 12, or better yet a rogue8, my last meal of his food will have been at Vidalia. At the bar.

Okay now there is an Asst. GM from a hotel on this thread. Fact number 1. You must reserve the room with a credit card. Got it. 2. If you cancel within 24 hours your subjected to pay the rate of the night. Understand that as well. So when I called the hotel on my last trip that I had to cancel at the last minute I was on the hook for a night in NYC for 300+ bucks. I had to jump through hoops to try and recover my money back. Didn't happen.

When a guest at a hotel NO SHOWS they are on the hook as well. They actually charge their customers (they aren't guests at that point) for not even staying. Hotels, airlines, doctors ect. ect. have a much larger revenue center then a 52 seat dining room.

What I was attempting to convey was that (1) you are well within your right to do whatever the hell you want, and (2) luxury dining at this level often have razor thin profit margins.

Any attempted analogies to airline tickets, concert tickets, or hotel rooms don't hold up, as there are different overhead costs, resell opportuniteies, demand, etc, etc. And cancellation policies vary from hotel brand, city, state, and country.

And you should be applauded for listening to your critics, answering their questions, and revising your policies after considering what the overall impact might be to your business.

Your food at Vidalia was sublime, and I wish I could go and experience Rogue24, but the time and money commitment it requires are too precious for me. That's no big deal, as I am not the target demo for Maserati either. Hoping the success of Rogue 24 spins off a more approachable, but equally delicious, sibling.

[Waitman]

Charles you can always come in. I have a wall for you peeps to tag as well.

We are priding ourselves in customer service why the hell would we care about dietary restrictions if we didnt?

We will get in touch with Bonji and tell the Brandywine Crew to round up their best caps and coolest paints.

Cheers.

[ad.mich]

The dining contract is the kind of story that, when picked up by a few media outlets, can toot-toot along for days on a stream of faux outrage from people that were probably never going to eat there in the first place. No one ever fussed about the Minibar contract in this fashion, and taking a CC# in advance at the places in the DMV offering this kind of dining experience is common.

I guess it's a slow news week. Toot freaking toot.

[Choirgirl21]

Rogue24 is luxurious dining, for the uber-affluent.

Not really if you place a high value on quality dining experiences and know how to save money. I suspect many of the folks on this thread fall into that category. I certainly am not uber-affluent, nor even affluent, but I will be eating at Rogue 24 in the relatively near future as I budget a certain portion of my income each month for dining out and save it for future use if I don't use it up each month. Certainly not a place I can go repeatedly, but that's irrelevant to the context of your comment.

This REALLY should be its own thread.

I want to hear about the food and the experience at Rogue 24 and live vicariously through diners until I manage to find a good time to go and pester RJ's team with my incessant questions.

Exactly. Happy to see Chef chime in and hand out his own batch of STFU. Really, if this discussion needs to continue, let it be somewhere else so those of us interested in the food and experience can hear about it. As far as the contract goes, we've all got the info we need to decide if we're reasonable people (who will still go) or moronic (and who won't).

Lighten up, I don't think you're really moronic if you choose not to go. Just that you're acting moronic in this particular case.

[rockcreek]

We're going next Saturday to celebrate my wife's birthday unless one of us is hooked to a defibrillator. To quote Bart Scott, "CAN'T WAIT!"

I signed the contract. I am going to use it to ensure my mother-in-law shows up to babysit as she is filled with years of Midwestern guilt. So thanks for that, Chef!

It's not like it matters, because my job is to eat what people put in front of me, but can somebody offer up their observations about the dining experience?

Happy Friday, peeps.

[darkstar965]

I thought it okay to have some discussion about the stuff now thoroughly debated. Think I came down with Waitman on that that it was okay (so long as constructive: my addition) but could have been a separate thread too. More to the point, a while back (aka upthread) before the contract, cell phone and camera discussions, there were some great perspectives on the food and R24 experience shared. I valued them a lot since, like others, haven't yet been. So connecting the questioners...

So how is the food?

...I want to hear about the food and the experience at Rogue 24 and live vicariously through diners until I manage to find a good time to go and pester RJ's team with my incessant questions...

...to some GREAT answers. I especially loved 1000yregg's photography. Awesome stuff.

I went last week, and had a great meal. I put up my pics and descriptions here.

My favorites were: the sea floor, the fresh radish with edible dirt, liquid chicken, the beet granita with char roe, the cheese -headcheese fakeout, & the lamb neck.

Thanks to RJ for letting me take the pictures.

...Last night, we broke the piggy bank and headed out to Rogue 24 for the full blown 24 course dinner and pairings.

I don't recall the last time I had so much fun while eating out. I was constantly amazed by the creativity and flavors from course to course. The menu is posted online and what we had was quite close to that, so I won't repeat the details of the dinner. There were a few "off the menu" items that came to us, including Chef RJ's take on poutine (foie gras gravy? Eat your heart out, Martin Picard!) and the ice cold bottle of Labatt's Blue which I assume isn't a standard part of Derek Brown's cocktail program.

Highlights include the sea urchin (accompanied by "rocks" and "seaweed"), ossetra caviar, the shrimp and grits (the blast of corn flavour when you bite into the fried grits was fantastic!), the "fowl play" (I love the way the smoke hits you when the glass dome is opened ), the smoked char roe, lamb neck, and the jowl bacon. Dammit - nearly every course was another highlight, but the clean winner for us had to be the lavendar meringue topped with a generous portion of shaved foie gras. I hope that's on the Salon menu because I can totally see us dropping in for a cocktail and some more of that dish.

I have to admit that I was skeptical of the tasting menu concept but Rogue 24 is so exquisitely executed and brilliantly thought out that it totally won me over. Thanks to Chef RJ and his staff for a gracious and delicious evening...

No doubt there will be many more writeups about the R24 experience. I hope to be one of them myself soon.

[Mrs. B]

Yippee! I'm heading to Rogue 24 for a dual anniversery. 30 years ago, on the same day, I snagged my first date with Waitman and my first job with a fantastic firm, both events changed my life forever. Mostly for the better And of course Waitman was robbing the cradle

I will report back about the dining portion of the evening.

[Choirgirl21]

I thought it okay to have some discussion about the stuff now thoroughly debated. Think I came down with Waitman on that that it was okay (so long as constructive: my addition) but could have been a separate thread too. More to the point, a while back (aka upthread) before the contract, cell phone and camera discussions, there were some great perspectives on the food and R24 experience shared. I valued them a lot since, like others, haven't yet been. So connecting the questioners...

...to some GREAT answers. I especially loved 1000yregg's photography. Awesome stuff.

No doubt there will be many more writeups about the R24 experience. I hope to be one of them myself soon.

No "connecting" for me needed. I've read the entire thread, including the posts you've quoted. I was making a point, which was that I wanted to see the thread get back to the food and dining experience.

Anyway, I seem to have been surprisingly successful at convincing my friends that we should eat here soon. We're probably going to hold off for a month or so so a few people can save up a bit, but hopefully I will have my own take on the food to share soon!

[Ericandblueboy]

The experience is very similar to Minibar. A bunch of courses presented by chefs cooking in the middle of the room. Service was very good. I arrived early and was immediately offered a cocktail menu. During dinner, whenever my wine ran low, I was asked if I wanted more. I think the Journey took about 3 hrs, but the pacing is pretty good. Not every dish was a hit taste-wise for me but almost all of them were hits in terms of creativity. I was wondering at the beginning of the meal if I was ever going to be full - that answer was yes at the end of the meal. I wasn't stuffed but I was definitely not hungry. It would be nice if they offered seconds on some of those dishes...I would happily stuff myself silly in that case.

[B.A.R.]

I wouldn't want to be too stuffed with the first 21 courses, because some of the best desserts I ever had were from the pastry chef, Chris Ford, when he was at Trummer's. There is a tremendous amount of talent in that kitchen!

[rockcreek]

Tonight's the night, weather be damned! Chef left me a voicemail confirming our reservation (thanks for checking - I left a voicer and email with Bonji.) Forgive my attire in advance, but waterproof shoes are as dressy as I'm gonna get on a day like this.

Here I am - rock me like a hurricane!

[rockcreek]

We're back, we're happy, and here's what I got:

- Read thisisgonnabegood.blogspot.com for the general review. Some of our courses were different, but like I said: he's a much better writer than I am.

- Tonight's menu:

* First three courses: trio of small bites. "Palm Bone", heart of palm, olive 'marrow', orange, iberico lomo; "Cracklins", a kimchi, sesame, and soy cracker; "ossetra", cauliflower medallion with champagne air. Eat in that order. Served with Foggy Ridge "Serious Cider".

* 4-5-6: Razor clam ceviche w/apple, fennel, potato; "fried rice #2", rice w/duck, vegetables, and scallion - which was room temp. Fascinating. "Sea Floor", urchin, squid ink "cracker", seaweed, and clamato. Paired with a cocktail of Holland House gin, dry vermouth, maraschino liqueur, lemon zest (awesome.)

*7-8-9: "Hail Buben", "Fowl Play", "Hog Jowl" - to die for. Paired with Seebrich Riesling 2008.

*10-11-12: "Mountain Potato", vichysoisse of confit leeks, truffle, almond milk, and a potato marble; LiquiChicken; "What's Up Doc". Served with Vigneti Massa, Piedmont 2009.

* 13-14-15: tomato "caprese"; foie gras torchon (my favorite); beet granita. Served with rose Domaine de Triennes.

* 16-17-18: "Shabu Shabu" - short rib with mushroom and onion presented with a broth pouring; "forest nage", a soup with matsutake mushrooms and bitter chocolate; "pigeon", squab with a turnip round, walnut dust, and concord grape. Celler Escoda-Sanahuja Garnacha 2007.

* 19-20-21: lamb neck, "Garden Mosaic" - shoots, gels, and powders, Pipe Dreams. Ca Sa Padrina Mallorca 2009 - delicious fruit, dark, exquisite.

* 22-23-24: Toigo Peach, Tennessee, "Happy Endings" - the pecan crisp, and chocolate ganache and "jelly bean" petit fours. Val-Dieu Quadruple Ale.

Special course 25 was mini Sazeracs, courtesy of Chef R.J. w00t

Got to talk in bullets (since I'm FLYING) so here goes.

- I am floored by how much work has gone into this menu. Between 1000yregg's experience - less than a month ago - and mine, fully nine courses were totally different. That takes some serious thinking, and Chef actually took some time to sit next to us and tell us how much thought he put into one of the dishes.

- Everything is meticulously prepared. The subtlety of each dish is such that if you add a pinch too much of anything, you are hosed. Never happened. These guys are good.

- 16 people are wusses for cancelling on account of a little rain.

- Chef IS the show. He's awesome - gracious, funny, charming, and genuine. True story.

Not sure what else to say. This is a place for a special evening. Service is beautiful; everyone on staff is welcoming and knowledgeable. And they have a sense of humor; my cocktail in the lounge was "Hello, Irene" - a well-behaved and tasty Hurricane.

Got to love it. Have to appreciate how unique each person's experience will be. Thanks, everybody.

- rockcreek

[Choirgirl21]

Nothing new in the last month?

Does anyone know how difficult it is to get reservations at this point? Nevermind, answered my own question there.

I did forget to ask though, and now no one is picking up, if we have a group that wants to do the 24 course menu, does anyone know if they will accommodate one vegetarian? I can call back again later, but figured someone else might already know this or even better, have requested it and can report back.

[astrid]

They will accommodate vegetarians

[Ericandblueboy]

Q.

ROGUE 24 CONTRACT

We dutifully filled out the contract and used it to reiterate (after noting it in the initial reservation) that one of our party was celebrating a birthday. Zero recognition from the staff including RJ Cooper himself, who only stopped at our table briefly with one of the dishes.(He made multiple visits to other tables) Not looking for any freebies, just a simple happy birthday, or thanks for spending your special day with us. To me, its not a document for communication, but will be used for punishment when need be.

A.

TOM SIETSEMA :

Chef, your fans want some face time with you

Who posts this kind of crap? You spent your time at a restaurant checking out where the chef visits? RJ visited our table once as well, but I didn't feel slighted at all. I thought we were special that we got 1 visit. I was too busy enjoying my meal, wine, and conversation to notice who RJ was chatting up. In contrast to this poster, I never announce a special occasion.

[Joe H]

Nobody seems to have focused on the room which is itself exceptional; exposed rough brick walls, floor to ceiling on both sides, a wood framed industrial exposed ceiling with spaces painted black. Below a softly lit ambience with the central open kitchen framed by the surrounding tables. Four seats on either side of the walls of the central kitchen front to it allowing diners to watch the ten to twelve staff behind the counter painstakingly assemble the various courses; some with tweezers, some with tiny spoons, some with midgit spears: precise plating on unique ovular, rectangular, octagonal and pentagonal dishes. All served by different staff, usually who personally participated in the assembly.

This is a serious effort to create a room with sensorial appreciation of ingredients at another level, in ways never imagined before. Crunch, chunk and smoothness play roles just as fluff and mallow along with juice, gobs and driblets not to mention wide and then sometimes precise swaths of colored texture to frame a plate. Much of this should be taken in one bite to fully experience the often many levels of taste, texture and temperature. This is not a simple meal...

Rogue 24 is a great effort with an American spin of a next generation dining expedition. It is as much an adventure in the room as it is finding it. What you are asked to sign aside (we thought quite reasonable) this is going to receive a great deal of national recognition. Chef Cooper has chosen D. C. to open this-not New York, nor Chicago nor Berlin or Prague where the room feels like the inspiration originated.

A serious experience well worth the wait; the resultant adventure more than justifies it.

[RJ Cooper]

Rogue 24 is a great effort with an American spin of a next generation dining expedition. It is as much an adventure in the room as it is finding it. What you are asked to sign aside (we thought quite reasonable) this is going to receive a great deal of national recognition. Chef Cooper has chosen D. C. to open this-not New York, nor Chicago nor Berlin or Prague where the room feels like the inspiration originated.

Thank You Joe well said. May we quote you for PR>

[Joe H]

Thank You Joe well said. May we quote you for PR>

I would be honored, Chef.

[Keithstg]

As we were walking in to Rouge 24 last Saturday night, I thought I saw Joe H (based on Waitman's David Nivven description) standing outside - so I figured I'd wait and reply to Joe's review....Anyway, we were a table of six, and really enjoyed our experience.

Two of the flights of three dishes were phenomenal:

razor clam (apple, fennel, potato)

fried rice special #2 (duck, veg, scallion)

sea floor (urchin, squid ink, seaweed, cilantro)

- served with a holland house cocktail

Chef's take on fried rice was familiar, but more refined and focused than any dish I have had like it, and the razor clam dish was incredible - of all of the dishes that night, three of our six people thought it the best. I really enjoyed how front and center the fennel was in the dish.

hail buben (shrimp n' grits)

fowl play

hog jowl (bread/onion/caramel puffs)

- seebrich reisling-spatlese trocken

This flight of courses was perfectly matched with the reisling. Just a wonderful pairing overall. The shrimp and grits was my favorite from this flight.

Other highlights were:

fried chicken 2011 (one perfect bite of fried liquefied chicken)

what's up doc (excellent rabbit dish - somewhat larger sized than the others, but perfectly executed and balanced

shabu shabu

lamb neck

All in all, only one dish among the 24 was considered a miss from our group - the bull's blood beet, which was a beet served cold along with smoked char roe, fennel pollen, and yogurt. Just didn't do it for us. Similarly, the garnacha served wasn't a group favorite - despite being described as similar to bordeaux (why? just serve a bordeaux), the wine somehow showed neither like bordeaux, nor garnacha. Again, when contrasted with the 7 other beverages in the pairings it stood out, but overall the pairings were strong, particularly among the white wines.

Service was excellent, across the board - the only minor quibble we had was the handling of the beverage pairings - they sometimes arrived either far in advance or just after the flight of courses arrived, which sometimes left glasses empty by the third item in any given flight. Pour size also varied widely across our table, but then again this restaurant has only been open for six weeks, and these are small issues.

This isn't a short dinner, but the vibrancy of both the cuisine and atmosphere made the time fly by very quickly. Chef RJ was nice enough to stop by a couple times and it's obvious how much fun he is having in this new space. We loved Rogue 24, and look forward to returning soon.

[Waitman]

[No one should mistake this for an objective review. When I walked in for an anniversary dinner with my wife RJ had Long Island Iced Teas (the defining food of our first date) waiting and the sound system played, first, Old Blue Eyes singing “Fly Me to the Moon” (our wedding first dance), and then “Franklin’s Tower” (ask your Deadhead friends). We’re clearly in the tank.

But, for the record and for what it’s worth….]

Old-timers will recall a recurring Saturday Night Live sketch called“Master Thespian,” in which John Lovitz and various special guests/foils amaze and confound one another and -- when asked “how could you have fooled me so?” reply – in full voice, Alec Guiness declaiming to mob – “AHCTING!” The Master Thespian thrives not on costume or artifice, neither on understatement, but on his craft – excuse me, his CRAHFT! – to transform raw materials into something profound and wonderful.

I picture RJ replying – should anyone ask him “how did you make my dinner so fucking good?” replying, in the same voice, “COOKING!” Taking fine raw materials and making them better because he and his brigade can chop, sautee, bake, boil, blend and – occasionally – transmogrify -- with patience, precision and inspiration.

In my limited experience, 24-course dining extravaganzas are more heat than light. You get a guy who never got over the chemistry set he got for Christmas one year (or perhaps Adria’s many cover stories), and the whole thing starts to feel like one of those modern art installations that is not meant to be enjoyed so much as “understood.” Or you get some chef who’s so respectful of his ingredients that stuffing a date with cheese is considered a culinary act.

What you get at 24, with a nod here and there to the molecular thing, strikes me as a lot of nuts and bolts cooking powering a kitchen determined to machete its own course through the culinary jungle. Nominally served as a series of eight flights (or whatevers), the food leaps between styles and traditions, moves effortlessly among textures and flavors, and rolls through 24 courses with a rhythm that neither overwhelms nor keeps you up past your bedtime.

I’m reminded of the Baltimore Orioles’ pitching coach Ray Miller’s mantra: “work fast, change speed, throw strikes.”

Without his getting all press release about it, RJ pinballs through a number of allegedly discrete styles over the course of the evening, not so much keeping you guessing as keeping you salivating.

You can’t get much more Southernthan cracklins, though I’m guessing that when my mom – who turned me on to them -- was growing up in Alabama, kimchi and sesame were unavailable as accompaniments. Then there’s God’s own stoner snack, the fried rice special #2 – a slightly off-kilter nod at the Middle Kingdom consisting of crunchy rice, duck, dried peas and so on. If they’d had this shit when I was in college, I would have bought it by the baggie-full.

At some point, inevitably, you’re back in France – all-American huckleberries notwithstanding – a point driven home by the lavender meringue that accompanies the foie gras. And then, what the hell, a swing by Japan for a cream-pitcher full of woodsy wonderfulness—rich beef broth, and exotic mushrooms thrown into a post-modern shabu shabu which should not have been served in a bowl but rather poured over and then licked off the torso of a particularly attractive server.

It’s not just that the dinner zig-zags from influence to influence, it’s that it does it in a way that keeps the palate just enough off balance to make most “pop,” as it were. The zing of the caviar followed by a rich deconstructed razor clam chowder (to be sure, pretty much everyone’s deconstructed clam chowder by now, but the apple moved this version into “holy shit” territory). A beet (not usually my favorite root) granita followed by the shabu shabu. The squash sorbet that precedes the chocolate. Each course setting up the next one.

RJ is a known Deadhead, so it’s perhaps not surprising that the difficult, experimental and avant-guard were interlaced with tasty favorites, just as the Dead used to move from the complex, unstructured and challenging “Playing in the Band’” into the Deadhead National Anthem, Uncle John’s Band. “What’s up Doc?,” for example, was a standout combination of wascally wabbit, some very intense carrot and an indeterminate but fantastically tasty “soil.” (Is Keller to blame for these cutesie names? “Oysters and Pearls” and all that? Even at RJ’s place, and applied to excellent food, they bug me). Even if vaguely molecular, the larger effect was simply simple and intense goodness.

Similarly, the pigeon. I hear RJ has interns out clubbing the little bastards in the ally, ensuring that the star of his pigeon/turnip/walnut/grape combo is truly free range. I liked the way the grapes pulled the dish out of the root cellar, a spritz of sweet and tart that first arm-wrestles and then links arms with the game.

And it’s no exaggeration to say that the meat course was the best lamb neck I’ve ever eaten in a fine dining restaurant. Also the only. Lamb neck creeps up towards the mutton-y taste that turned generations of Irish Catholics off to lamb, but it backs off at the last moment, just strong enough to ensure that your few slices of neck comprise satisfying serving of ovine delight.

I was pleased to discover that, unlike other establishments offering wine pairings, you can get a pretty good buzz off R24’s fancy flights of flat and fizzy beverages – they even offered an additional splash or so should the drinking outpace the eating (which, astoundingly, I don’t think ever happened). Having misplaced my menu card, I will say only that I approved of the matches, including the Belgian Ale that accompanied dessert, and was particularly taken with some of the whites.

I was also pleased to discover that, unlike other establishments offering endless courses, R24 was not over-filling. Mrs. B, who can fill up on an astoundingly small quantity of food, had to give away only a couple of courses to make it to the end; I was full without being stuffed after having consumed those couple of extra courses.

Not everything was a hit. A take on shrimp and grits named for RJ’s former taskmaster Jeffrey Buben felt un-ethereal (perhaps revenge for Buben telling Tom Sietsema “I'm never giving away the keys to the car again”). But the hog jowl that followed made up for it.

And while the dining room was quite welcoming – charming, in fact, in a minimalist sort of sort of way -- I failed to discern the orgasmic thematics that sent Joe H into paroxysms upthread. Perhaps I am insensitive to the sublime. This would be a good place to note that, despite the bustle, exposed brick and open kitchen in the dining room’s center, the noise level remained quite tolerable throughout.

It’s hard to picture a 24-course, $500 meal (with wine, tax and tip) as an unpretentious journey, but despite the press coverage and the sometimes breathless prose on the restaurant’s website, that’s what it was. Informal yet precise service, a modern, but comfortable room, and cooking that makes its impression in the eating and not in the bling.

It’s not a place that dazzles you as you walk into the room – it’s too calm and substantial for that. Rather, the whole experience gradually envelopes you, a seduction that you barely realize is taking place until suddenly you break from your reverie, look up at RJ or any of the swarming acolytes dropping food and drink at your table, and ask, “how did you make my dinner so fucking good?”