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Wine Shipping, Moving and Storage


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My apologies if this is misusing the board, but I am looking to cell my wine cellar if anyone is interested. It is a Vintage Keeper "Tuscany 220" model. Holds 220 bottles, has digital temp control, glass door w/ lock. Color is black. It was purchased about 3 years ago for approx $1200 including shipping.

Unit is in excellent condition - I'm only selling it because I had a walk-in cellar built in my basement. :P Reasonable offers will be considered. Feel free to PM or email me if interested. Cheers!

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...should my little bottles sleep?

Almost all of my wine is still in California. I'm probably going to keep some of it there - maybe the majority of it - but I'd like to keep at least a dozen cases out this way. The last time I talked to the guy at The Wine Rack, he said the place was full. (And never mind that rate is a multiple of what I'm paying out West. Damn D.C. property values!)

Are there any other options out this way?

I guess I might have to break down and get a mid-sized VinoTemp or something. (Where's the best place to get one locally? Or would I be better off ordering online?)

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...should my little bottles sleep?

Almost all of my wine is still in California. I'm probably going to keep some of it there - maybe the majority of it - but I'd like to keep at least a dozen cases out this way. The last time I talked to the guy at The Wine Rack, he said the place was full. (And never mind that rate is a multiple of what I'm paying out West. Damn D.C. property values!)

Are there any other options out this way?

I guess I might have to break down and get a mid-sized VinoTemp or something. (Where's the best place to get one locally? Or would I be better off ordering online?)

Order online. Both IWA and Wine Enthusiast have various size EuroCaves. EuroCave

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Try Wide World of Wines on Wisconsin Ave.

...should my little bottles sleep?

Almost all of my wine is still in California. I'm probably going to keep some of it there - maybe the majority of it - but I'd like to keep at least a dozen cases out this way. The last time I talked to the guy at The Wine Rack, he said the place was full. (And never mind that rate is a multiple of what I'm paying out West. Damn D.C. property values!)

Are there any other options out this way?

I guess I might have to break down and get a mid-sized VinoTemp or something. (Where's the best place to get one locally? Or would I be better off ordering online?)

Edited by dmwine
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http://carolinawine.biz/index.asp?CartId={...0-57E9FD2911A7}

which is Carolina Wine in Raleigh, NC. There were two cases still available six hours ago. They ship via Fed Ex ground to the D. C. area for second day delivery. They (and a handful of others) take delivery of the wine in mid to late September so temperature should not be a problem.

Good luck.

how much total? (including VA tax and shipping...)

I inquired into shipping wines home from Tuscany - I visited Poggio Antico in Montalcino - apparently a case shipped from Italy was over 200 bucks just for shipping charges. i.e. a case is well over 700 bucks... needless to say I just bought 3 bottles and carried them home. which apparently is impossible to do now. wonder how ticked off the wineries are at the terrorists.

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how much total? (including VA tax and shipping...)

I inquired into shipping wines home from Tuscany - I visited Poggio Antico in Montalcino - apparently a case shipped from Italy was over 200 bucks just for shipping charges. i.e. a case is well over 700 bucks... needless to say I just bought 3 bottles and carried them home. which apparently is impossible to do now. wonder how ticked off the wineries are at the terrorists.

Most internet wine sale is about $2 per bottle for shipping when you buy a case. With the exception of New Jersey few internet sites charge tax, generally this balances the shipping cost. My post was not about an opportunity save money on this particular wine; rather it was about what may well be the only source in the U. S. for it.

I've had wine shipped to me in Reston from Panzano and from Sydney. Sydney was Aus 200 (about US $140) and showed up in two weeks in perfect condition. The wine I bought was Aus 110 a bottle or (at the rate of exchange then) about US $65. With the shipping it brought the total to about US $78 which was slightly more than HALF of what it would have sold for here if I could find it (and I couldn't). Panzano was a different story: this was '97 Cepperello which the WS ranked as the #3 wine of the year. I was charged about US $150 (Lira at the time) and the wine was about US $40 a bottle. The total was about US $53 for a wine that was selling here for close to $100 a bottle. Unlike the Australian wine which was delivered to my door without a problem the Tuscan was held up by customs and I had to pay off an importer, retail store and pay customs duty to bring the total to almost as much as it cost to buy it here. Both wines were honestly labelled "wine" on the invoice.

I have some friends who tell me they buy a lot of olive oil from Italy direct....

I've not had a problem "burying" almost a case of wine in my luggage. I've also brought back almost a case and a half a number of times over the years in carry on and in my luggage. Now it will just be luggage. The problem, however, is that wine is now expensive overseas. It is no longer the bargain it once was with American wholesalers sometimes taking smaller margains to maintain market share.

Edited by Joe H
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Most internet wine sale is about $2 per bottle for shipping when you buy a case. With the exception of New Jersey few internet sites charge tax, generally this balances the shipping cost. My post was not about an opportunity save money on this particular wine; rather it was about what may well be the only source in the U. S. for it.

I've had wine shipped to me in Reston from Panzano and from Sydney. Sydney was Aus 200 (about US $140) and showed up in two weeks in perfect condition. The wine I bought was Aus 110 a bottle or (at the rate of exchange then) about US $65. With the shipping it brought the total to about US $78 which was slightly more than HALF of what it would have sold for here if I could find it (and I couldn't). Panzano was a different story: this was '97 Cepperello which the WS ranked as the #3 wine of the year. I was charged about US $150 (Lira at the time) and the wine was about US $40 a bottle. The total was about US $53 for a wine that was selling here for close to $100 a bottle. Unlike the Australian wine which was delivered to my door without a problem the Tuscan was held up by customs and I had to pay off an importer, retail store and pay customs duty to bring the total to almost as much as it cost to buy it here. Both wines were honestly labelled "wine" on the invoice.

I have some friends who tell me they buy a lot of olive oil from Italy direct....

I've not had a problem "burying" almost a case of wine in my luggage. I've also brought back almost a case and a half a number of times over the years in carry on and in my luggage. Now it will just be luggage. The problem, however, is that wine is now expensive overseas. It is no longer the bargain it once was with American wholesalers sometimes taking smaller margains to maintain market share.

To continue the wine shipping threadjack, we found that shopping around in Italy for shipping offers paid off. Early into our trip in March we dropped by Enoteca Vanni in Lucca; I still dream of their cellar, but not the shipping process. We had a mixed case shipped to the US for EU150. With a 15% case discount it was a great deal compared to US prices. About a week later we were in Montalcino and had a case shipped from Osticcio for EU100, and the wines were 10-20% off of what we were finding elsewhere. That box arrived at our doorstep a couple days after we returned in perfect condition, whereas the Lucca box arrived a week later (two weeks additional transit time) and a bit worse for wear (a number of torn labels included). Given what the wines are going for in the States, if they are even available, it was still a good deal, but when we return Osticcio is likely to get our business again. Vanni? Not so much.

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Voila, wine on airplanes? no problem!.

I have one and bringing in wines is easy. Except for the ignorant TSA people who added up 12.7% proof wine x 12 bottles and said I couldn't have 144 proof alcohol on! :) Idiots!

To continue the wine shipping threadjack, we found that shopping around in Italy for shipping offers paid off. Early into our trip in March we dropped by Enoteca Vanni in Lucca; I still dream of their cellar, but not the shipping process. We had a mixed case shipped to the US for EU150. With a 15% case discount it was a great deal compared to US prices. About a week later we were in Montalcino and had a case shipped from Osticcio for EU100, and the wines were 10-20% off of what we were finding elsewhere. That box arrived at our doorstep a couple days after we returned in perfect condition, whereas the Lucca box arrived a week later (two weeks additional transit time) and a bit worse for wear (a number of torn labels included). Given what the wines are going for in the States, if they are even available, it was still a good deal, but when we return Osticcio is likely to get our business again. Vanni? Not so much.
Osticcio has a website, Osticcio.com, with their inventory and prices. They will ship to the USA. In case you can't get back as soon as you want. :)
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The WineKaddy is definately for the belly (airplane). I have checked it in countless times. What I am going to start doing is bringing a uniform with me on vacations. I can bring liquids if I am in uniform. London is the only place that absolutely forbids liquids by anyone, but even then there are ways around it, (for crewmembers). Fortunately the UK is not known for it's wine production.

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Last, the website for Osticcio is really interesting. But it's not the bargain you may think it is. I looked at the prices for a dozen or so Tuscan wines and when you factor in the cost of shipping it is no less than what you can find here if you shop around.

Joe, you're right that with shipping it wasn't the rock-bottom bargain of the century, but I calculated we saved on average $5-7/bottle with shipping when compared to the best I could find online and locally. The prices on the Osticcio site don't really reflect what we paid (anywhere from 10-20% off of those when buying by the case). When you average that into the 7-9 bottles we brought on board and didn't pay shipping on, the average savings jumps to $12-15 per bottle, and we were mostly buying in the EU20-30 range, so I would consider that pretty good. The end price of the wines from Vanni in Lucca ended up being almost a wash with the weakness of the dollar and the inflated shipping (I think we ended up paying even a bit more for some Col D'Orcia). Caveat emptor and all that.

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Joe, you're right that with shipping it wasn't the rock-bottom bargain of the century, but I calculated we saved on average $5-7/bottle with shipping when compared to the best I could find online and locally. The prices on the Osticcio site don't really reflect what we paid (anywhere from 10-20% off of those when buying by the case). When you average that into the 7-9 bottles we brought on board and didn't pay shipping on, the average savings jumps to $12-15 per bottle, and we were mostly buying in the EU20-30 range, so I would consider that pretty good. The end price of the wines from Vanni in Lucca ended up being almost a wash with the weakness of the dollar and the inflated shipping (I think we ended up paying even a bit more for some Col D'Orcia). Caveat emptor and all that.

As I noted above wines that you carry on a plane and bring back are cheaper in most instances. Sometimes much cheaper. This is why I do this myself. But go back to their website and pick out any wine that is in the under US $40 range and you will find that as the price of this wine goes lower, when you factor in the cost of shipping which is US $12.50 or so per bottle you are paying more for the bottom line total price to have it shipped here. Having wine shipped from overseas only makes sense above a certain price point unless there is no other way to find the wine which is why I've had it shipped from Australia. The '97 Cepperello was about $100 a bottle here reflecting huge markups because of the WS rating. In Panzano, at the time, it was about 40% of this so I could factor in $12.50 per bottle shipping and still be way ahead of the game. If I was buying a wine that was $35 here and paying US $25 there, with the shipping charge I am still paying more.

You say that you bought wine in the E20-30 range. Let's take a E 20 bottle which is about US $26.00. With shipping that is about US $38-39. Looking at the prices on their website I am suggesting that by shopping on the internet or using sales/Costco/etc. here you can consistently beat this price on virtually every bottle. Your $26 bottle reflects a 50% markup to sell here for $39.

This is one page from their website:

Chianti Classico DOCG Vigna del Sorbo 1999 L 0,750 € 35,00

FLACCIANELLO IGT Toscana, Sangiovese 2000 L 0,750 € 40,50

FLACCIANELLO IGT Toscana, Sangiovese 1999 L 0,750 € 36,00

CASE VIA Pinot Nero IGT Toscana 1999 L 0,750 € 28,00

CASE VIA Pinot Nero IGT Toscana 1998 L 0,750 € 26,00

CASE VIA Pinot Nero VdT Colli Toscani 1992 L 0,750 € 15,00

CASE VIA Sirah IGT Toscana 1998 L 0,750 € 32,00

Vin Santo del Chianti Classico DOC 1997 L 0,500 € 34,00

This is from Wine Zap:

1999 Fontodi Chianti Classico Riserva Vigna Del Sorbo

At Downbeach Liquors in Margate, NJ as of 8/29

750 Rate! $45.00

E 35 @1.285 = $44.98 + 12.50 shipping = $57.48 (more than Downbeach Liquors-MUCH more)

From Wine Searcher:

MacArthur Beverages

DC: Washington. Wine merchant. Flaccianello/Fontodi Fontodi, 2000 $59.99

Bottle

E 40.50 @1.285 = $52.04 + 12.50 shipping = $64.54 (more than MacArthur)

If purchased on the Internet there is a shipping charge of approximately $2.00 that would be added to each of them; however there may be an additional case discount that has not been applied that could offset this (although unlikely for the NJ store). Regardless the Flaccienello is still cheaper here and the Vigna del Sorbois is MUCH cheaper. I do not do this for the other wines listed but I am certain in their price range the results would be similar.

Again, if you bought these there and did not have to factor shipping in you would save a considerable amount of money (although the NJ store was selling it for the SAME PRICE!). As you note there may be a case discount on top of the price on their website. But there could also be a further discount on the prices of the U. S. Internet outlets, too. Regardless, fairly consistently, you only save money on having wine shipped above a certain price point. That price point is +/- $40.00.

Edited by Joe H
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As I noted above wines that you carry on a plane and bring back are cheaper in most instances. Sometimes much cheaper. This is why I do this myself. But go back to their website and pick out any wine that is in the under US $40 range and you will find that as the price of this wine goes lower, when you factor in the cost of shipping which is US $12.50 or so per bottle you are paying more for the bottom line total price to have it shipped here.

Snippity snip snip ...

Joe, for every example you give of where it costs more to ship from overseas someone could find one where it is cheaper, sometimes substantially so. To wit, using an actual example from Osticcio on a bottle we purchased:

Il Poggione Brunello di Montalcino Riserva, 1999

Lowest internet price from Winesearcher: $64 @ Wine Library + $2 shipping = $66

Price we paid at Osticcio: (EU32 x 1.285) + $10.50 shipping (EU100 x 1.285 / 12) = $51.62

Even at the full price they quote on the web it's a few bucks cheaper to ship.

Point is, price doesn't HAVE to be $40+ to be "worth it", but the simple math certainly favorably weights it that way simply based on the reduced percentage of overall cost attributed to the fixed shipping. It does pay to know you're stuff, though (we actually didn't know all that much, Brunellos being normally outside of our wine price range in the US, but I researched a few and got recs from a trusted source before we left). However, the same rules apply to shopping domestically and paying $99 for the same bottle of Il Poggione that you can pay $64 for from Wine Library :)

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Can anyone provide any insight or first hand experiences with Wine coolers/ refridgeratiors, cellars? Also any loacl vendor recomendations?

Welcome!

Are you looking for long term storing for properly aging wines or for short(er) term storage? What size are you looking for?

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My only recommendation is to buy larger than you think you need. It's amazing how quickly they fill up!

IWA sells a large variety of wine storage options from small 24-bottle countertop models to custom-designed rooms. http://www.iwawine.com

Note: if you do plan to order something that they sell, give Frank's Union Wine Mart in Delaware a call. I've purchased 2 wine cellars from them and they offer (or at least they did at one time) a 15% discount on anything IWA sells if you order it through them. Your order will be drop shipped to your house, so it really isn't inconvenient at all. http://www.frankswine.com/accessories.htm

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Another place to consider (apart from Rob's excellent suggestions) is Foremost Appliances, who stock Sub-Zero, Viking, and U-Line. I have a small (100 bottle) U-Line mounted under the kitchen counter, and it is excellent. Foremost has these small units, all the way up to 500 + bottle units, and seem to be very price competitive.

I also use The Wine Rack in georgetown for longer-term, offsite storage. They have been a saving grace, given the tendency of those bottles to pile up.

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I second that recommendation. If you think 100 is what you're going to need, look for one that will do 150-200. Seriously.

Agree as well. Get one larger than you think you will need.

On a random note - check out Best Buy's web site. They often offer free shipping on the fridges they sell. We picked up an 80 bottle one very cheaply, and with the free shipping it was significantly cheaper than prices we got elsewhere.

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Any advice about brands? I know Eurocav is the best but it is $$$$$ way expensive for my kitchen rehab budget. I was looking at Vinotemp, Marvel but again they are pretty steep.

From my research it looks like Haier, Danby are not great for long term storage and more likely to be used for beverage fridges.

Is there anything in the middle range that is good for long-term storage?

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Any advice about brands? I know Eurocav is the best but it is $$$$$ way expensive for my kitchen rehab budget. I was looking at Vinotemp, Marvel but again they are pretty steep.

From my research it looks like Haier, Danby are not great for long term storage and more likely to be used for beverage fridges.

Is there anything in the middle range that is good for long-term storage?

I don't know much about wine refrigerators other than the one I have, but what I do know is that for long term storage you do not want anything with a fan involved, as it can dry out corks, or so I have been tolk. Seems like you have found that out through your research, though.
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Any advice about brands? I know Eurocav is the best but it is $$$$$ way expensive for my kitchen rehab budget. I was looking at Vinotemp, Marvel but again they are pretty steep.

From my research it looks like Haier, Danby are not great for long term storage and more likely to be used for beverage fridges.

Is there anything in the middle range that is good for long-term storage?

GE has some nice looking ones they are producing which seem good for the mid range. If your a Costco member, you can get Vinotemps fairly reasonably too on their website.

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GE has some nice looking ones they are producing which seem good for the mid range. If your a Costco member, you can get Vinotemps fairly reasonably too on their website.

That's exactly how we got our 60 bottle Vinotemp. We've been pretty happy with it. It's only one temp, but as with most one temps the top is a bit warmer than the bottom so you can store the reds and the top and the whites/desserts on the bottom. Costco had a pretty good price on them.

I noticed the last time I was in Cafe Atlantico's bar that they used the same fridge for wine storage. I'm sure that's much more of a short-term thing, but I found it interesting.

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Somewhere in this thread someone needs to discuss how many bottles you can ACTUALLY put into one of these things. I have two 270 bottle Eurocaves. With shelving and oversize bottles (not magnums, just bottles a bit larger than bordeaux bottles) the maximum is realistically about 180 each. The only way that I can fit 270 in is if I take ALL of the shelves out and stack the bottles on top of each other.

Someone else needs to talk about the selling price. The Wine Enthusiast will negotiate. Quite a bit as a matter of fact. It is not just a matter of seeing the price and assuming this is the final price. The final price (with 12 sliding shelves, glass door, etc.) for the "270 bottle unit" could be as much as a low figure of $2,600 to $3,500 or more for the same unit. "White glove" shipping is expensive (where they deliver it AND set it up); they will negotiate on this, too. The single best "public" price of the year is that which they offer at the Feb/March DC wine show. They WILL match this price at other times, also if you are persistent.

Viking and Sub Zero units are unbelievably expensive. Almost double the best price of EuroCave. For Eurocave and these you are buying durability, relative absence of vibration and, I think, the ability to store wine for an extended period of time. If you are buying one for your kitchen then your perspective is going to be different from buying one for a basement or for long term storage.

You also should seriously consider that part of the cost of the unit is the cost of the bottles you are going to put into it. At some point, with several thousand dollars into wine storage, you are going to start thinking about buying better wine. Not necessarily expensive wine, but better wine that lends itself to storage.

Last, there is much to be said for taking a cooler area of a basement or a basement closet and buying a refrigeration unit, insulating the whole area and using this for storage. This disadvantage to this is that if you sell your house/condo you cannot take it with you. The Eurocave, etc. can go anywhere you do.

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Long term storage. I am thinking of around 100 bottles, hopefully two-temp.

Where do you live? In a house or an apartment? In a house with a basement, you have your two temperatures right there. Upstairs, downstairs. You can buy 120 bottle wooden racks from IWA and Wine Enthusiast for about $90. Keep a few bottles of white wine and Champagne in your fridge, and you're ready to go. Wine Enthusiast has lots of options. Take a look.

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Last, there is much to be said for taking a cooler area of a basement or a basement closet and buying a refrigeration unit, insulating the whole area and using this for storage. This disadvantage to this is that if you sell your house/condo you cannot take it with you. The Eurocave, etc. can go anywhere you do.
A former boss of mine who was a Bordeaux enthusiast did this. The space itself was no more than about 4x8 feet. I was extremely envious.
Where do you live? In a house or an apartment? In a house with a basement, you have your two temperatures right there. Upstairs, downstairs. You can buy 120 bottle wooden racks from IWA and Wine Enthusiast for about $90. Keep a few bottles of white wine and Champagne in your fridge, and you're ready to go. Wine Enthusiast has lots of options. Take a look.
I've tried a few different systems over the years and was unhappy with just about all of them until I found the Omar line at Ikea. These are metal shelves and each unit holds 24 bottles. A bonus is the individually adjustable feet for those of us with uneven floors. They show the regular Omar shelves on the web site, but not the unit with wine bottle shelves.
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Where do you live? In a house or an apartment? In a house with a basement, you have your two temperatures right there. Upstairs, downstairs. You can buy 120 bottle wooden racks from IWA and Wine Enthusiast for about $90. Keep a few bottles of white wine and Champagne in your fridge, and you're ready to go. Wine Enthusiast has lots of options. Take a look.

this summer I built a 'cellar' underneath the basement stairs - looks great and the basement stays fairly cool even in summertime - I guess I should put a thermometer in there to see what the temp fluctuation is

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I have several hundred bottles on racks in our basement which are not stored in Eurocaves. The temperature is fairly constant, about 70 degrees year round. I tend to store wine on these that would be in the $15 to 25 range, list. (I believe wine can improve with several additional years of bottle age. Note that a lot of restaurants have "library" wines that they may sell for four to six times or more than the original release price.) In the fifteen years that I've been doing this I have had no problem in the wine pouring well five to six years after I've first bought it-my actual "goal" is to drink wine that is about seven to eight years old in most cases. I use the Eurocaves for longer storage and better wine. If your basement has a constant temperature and is free of vibration just buying wooden racks can be a most acceptible way to store wine.

There is a very real advantage to controlled temperature storage, however: serving it at the proper temperature. Both of my Eurocaves are single temperature, around 55 degrees. Usually, I'll put a bottle or two from the basement racks into the Eurocaves the night before drinking it. There is also much to be said for entertaining and having a very real selection of wine to choose from.

Edited by Joe H
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We built a wine cellar downstairs when we had the downstairs finished. It is an enclosed and insulated room with redwood racking on 3 walls that holds about 1000 bottles. It is great to be able to buy wine by the case in the 10-20$ range which is the real sweet spot. I do have one wall reserved for better wines I have accumulated through buying, aging amd travel. I.E. Brunellos from Tuscanny and Grand Cru from Burgundy.

Simply it works out great.

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A former boss of mine who was a Bordeaux enthusiast did this. The space itself was no more than about 4x8 feet. I was extremely envious.

Re price: once you exepct to spend $2000 on wine storage, you will have hit the entry price point for building a small 500-700 bottle temperature controlled cellar in your house. This assumes you have the space and can do the labor yourself (though its not rocket science).

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I will be moving from D.C. to the San Francisco area in mid-May. I'd like to bring much of my 200-bottle wine collection with me, and I'm trying to determine how best to move the wine such that it doesn't get overheated or otherwise destroyed during the process.

Does anyone have experience moving large quantities of wine over long distances? Any moving companies with climate-controlled storage to recommend to me? Any other ways to do it that won't cost me an arm and a leg (and are within the law)?

Thanks,

Michael

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I can sell you new boxes with inserts, but you'd have to assemble them and tape them shut.

We have to buy them ourselves because we are always running out of boxes (most of ours are used to pack up liquor, wine and beer for delivery to catered events, and they aren't always returned to us in useful condition, so...)

They aren't "shipping" boxes, so they aren't insulated or especially cushioned, but we could always order those for you as well, but they are much more expensive.

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I drove my wine collection to a friend's house before I moved to SF. To paraphrase my friend's and my own conclusion, bringing wine to SF is like bringing salt to the ocean. I only brought 2 or 3 cases of stuff that would be on the decline in 1-4 years, (whites, standard champagnes, a few european dessert wines), a few burgandies and bordeaux. It's less than a 3 hour drive to Napa, Sonoma, Monterray, Livermore, Chalone, and the Sierra Foothills. There are countless wine stores, innumerable restaurants, and hell, even the safeways stock some nice stuff. And if/when I move back east, my wines will be 3-4 years older. The stuff you do ship...well, there will be some movement shock, but some of that will subside after 3 months. Drop a line when you get here...

david

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I just moved my collection from DC to NC. Mine was small enough (~60 bottles) that I just packed them in some moving boxes with copious amounts of paper wrapped around each bottle and bunched up in between the bottles. Luckily the weather was quite cold at the time (we were moving mid/late February when there was snow on the ground). From what I've tasted so far I haven't noticed any particular damage, but heat wasn't an issue for as because of the weather, only the shock of all the vibration.

We did basically go on a moratorium on buying wine for a couple months prior to moving though. Since we drink 2-4 bottles between myself and my GF a week when I'm home that helped cut down the amount we needed to move as well.

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I will be moving from D.C. to the San Francisco area in mid-May. I'd like to bring much of my 200-bottle wine collection with me, and I'm trying to determine how best to move the wine such that it doesn't get overheated or otherwise destroyed during the process.

Does anyone have experience moving large quantities of wine over long distances? Any moving companies with climate-controlled storage to recommend to me? Any other ways to do it that won't cost me an arm and a leg (and are within the law)?

Thanks,

Michael

i have used vinfolio for the past year or so. they store wine, coordinate transport and handle all sorts of cellar management functions. you may want to contact them soon, and coordinate transfer earlier. the weather forecast for the rest of this week would provide for temperatures that are friendly to wines crossing the country.

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Do what the Wine Library and other stores who sell over the internet do: pack your bottles in molded styrofoam containers that hold 12 bottles and are shipped in a cardboard box. You should be concerned about vibration and temperature variation. I do not buy over the internet in warmer months. AND, you should remember that Australian, South African, Chilean, Spanish, French, German and California wine that has come to Washington has also travelled a long distance. While I would argue that all of these will have suffered a bit versus buying and drinking at the winery, wine is shipped all the time. Whatever you want to ship was probably shipped a long distance to where you bought it! For that matter I just took delivery of a case of wine today that was shipped to me from the winery. In Washington. Walla Walla, Washington.

Use styrofoam containers and ship in the right months. You'll be all right. Just don't ship very often. Vibration really does matter.

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I have successfully filled my Vintage Keeper wine cellar and need more storage space. Unfortunately there is no more room in my apartment for another unit. Anyone know of anywhere else who offers storage besides the Wine Rack? It is a little pricey.

I am thinking of carting it Philadelphia but was going to check to see if there is something closer that is affordable.

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Somewhere in this thread someone needs to discuss how many bottles you can ACTUALLY put into one of these things. I have two 270 bottle Eurocaves. With shelving and oversize bottles (not magnums, just bottles a bit larger than bordeaux bottles) the maximum is realistically about 180 each. The only way that I can fit 270 in is if I take ALL of the shelves out and stack the bottles on top of each other.

Someone else needs to talk about the selling price. The Wine Enthusiast will negotiate. Quite a bit as a matter of fact. It is not just a matter of seeing the price and assuming this is the final price. The final price (with 12 sliding shelves, glass door, etc.) for the "270 bottle unit" could be as much as a low figure of $2,600 to $3,500 or more for the same unit. "White glove" shipping is expensive (where they deliver it AND set it up); they will negotiate on this, too. The single best "public" price of the year is that which they offer at the Feb/March DC wine show. They WILL match this price at other times, also if you are persistent.

Viking and Sub Zero units are unbelievably expensive. Almost double the best price of EuroCave. For Eurocave and these you are buying durability, relative absence of vibration and, I think, the ability to store wine for an extended period of time. If you are buying one for your kitchen then your perspective is going to be different from buying one for a basement or for long term storage.

You also should seriously consider that part of the cost of the unit is the cost of the bottles you are going to put into it. At some point, with several thousand dollars into wine storage, you are going to start thinking about buying better wine. Not necessarily expensive wine, but better wine that lends itself to storage.

Last, there is much to be said for taking a cooler area of a basement or a basement closet and buying a refrigeration unit, insulating the whole area and using this for storage. This disadvantage to this is that if you sell your house/condo you cannot take it with you. The Eurocave, etc. can go anywhere you do.

JoeH, thanks for this, I had no idea that Wine Enthusiast was operated like a car dealership. That is very good to know when I get to the point of pulling the trigger and ordering.

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When is DC going to open a reasonably priced long term wine storage facility? I'm going to be stationed in Germany for the next 3 years and even with serious pruning and gifting I still need to move about 900 bottles from DC to my parent's basement in the VA suburbs. I've found a local moving company to move them and the wine cabinets but still need about 75 case boxes to pack the wine. Any advice is appreciated?

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When is DC going to open a reasonably priced long term wine storage facility? I'm going to be stationed in Germany for the next 3 years and even with serious pruning and gifting I still need to move about 900 bottles from DC to my parent's basement in the VA suburbs. I've found a local moving company to move them and the wine cabinets but still need about 75 case boxes to pack the wine. Any advice is appreciated?

You know, I remember driving out to the Fairfax Wegman's, and seeing a warehouse with a sign up advertising temperature-controlled wine storage. I wish I remember more, but this was about six months ago. In-town wine storage is expensive, to say the least.

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