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DC Council Passes Smoking Ban


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Kentucky is a tobacco state, and smoking is already banned in much of the state.
I went to law school in a city so nice two cigarette brands are named for it (winston/salem). We used to joke that smoking wasn't permitted in North Carolina, no it was encouraged! When I was in law school ten years ago people could still smoke anywhere except inside the hospital in W-S. Seriously, the first time I went to the department store and saw someone smoking IN the store I nearly keeled over. Then I went to the Harris Teeter and let me tell you people were smoking there too. I ended up frequenting Fresh Market because they didn't allow smoking in the store.

Now, W-S is pretty much a non-smoking city. Interestingly, though there are still no "no smoking" signs at Wake Forest Univ. even though smoking is prohibited in any of the buildings. Guess the Reynolds rule still prevails.

As to loud music here is my take, musicians and employees of live music venue really need to take care of their ears. Pete Townsend is the poster child for ear health in the industry. However, unlike the constant exposure to smoke in a club, a patron can actually do something to limit any damage from the music by using ear plugs.

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Kentucky is a tobacco state, and smoking is already banned in much of the state.

As someone pointed out to me recently, Kentucky is a marijuana state, with an annual production value exceeding 5x that of tobacco. On a per-capita basis, they're second only to runaway leader Hawaii. Banning smoking in public isn't exactly a major economic hardship for them.

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I won't out them, but just last night I was corrupted by several members of this board.

The bizarre thing is that nobody smokes in their own house any more, so we're at home and we're still huddled against the elements.

Actually, last night was a good night for smoking on the porch.

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Just out of curiosity... are there other smokers on the board? How much of a minority are we? Smokers only -- come out, come out wherever you are! Please PM me.
I was riding in a DC cab two weeks ago, and NPR was interviewing a restaurant employee about the hardships of working in a 'dangerous environment' that allowed smoking. The cabbie started laughing heartily-"I wonder if any of his customers have ever put a gun to his head! That's the risk I take!" Having driven a cab and worked a smoke-filled room, I had to agree with him. I will heartily miss smoking a big fat nasty cigar at Bistrot du Coin and at Bedrock (where they don't serve food). For cigar smokers it's not an option to go outside for five minutes.

When they ban foie gras or whatever else it is that they decide is bad for us, don't come crying to the smokers.

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Just out of curiosity... are there other smokers on the board? How much of a minority are we? Smokers only -- come out, come out wherever you are! Please PM me.

Current status: Smoker.

I've only been at it yet again for a couple of months and I plan to quit yet again within a week or two. If I allow my selfish side its way, I'd be happy to smoke my head off at a bar, coffee shop, etc, but, rationally speaking, I'm all for the ban. As far as I'm concerned, legalizing those big exports from Hawaii and Kentucky and outlawing tobacco would be a giant step forward for this country.

From the haze,

Al

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The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. constitution specifies that the powers not specifically given to Congress or prohibited altogether reside in the states or in the people. Virginia's constitution contains no provision analogous to the Tenth Amendment in prescribing power relationships between the commonwealth and its localities. Instead, Virginia applies Dillon's Rule in a strict way. Actions of a county or city must be in accordance with the exact language of enabling state legislation. Pure home rule assumes that a local government may exercise all authority not specifically prohibited it by Virginia's constitution or statutory law. The Virginia General Assembly has been opposed to extending home rule to its localities.

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All of the bars that I've been to since the ban have been every bit as crowded as before.

The funny thing I've noticed is that a lot of these places now possess a funky smell since the ban has gone into effect, as if the smoke was somehow masking it before. I suppose it's sort of like how you don't notice that your clothes reek of cigarette smoke until you get home. Nanny O'Brien's must be downright unbearable by this point :lol:

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All of the bars that I've been to since the ban have been every bit as crowded as before.

The funny thing I've noticed is that a lot of these places now possess a funky smell since the ban has gone into effect, as if the smoke was somehow masking it before. I suppose it's sort of like how you don't notice that your clothes reek of cigarette smoke until you get home. Nanny O'Brien's must be downright unbearable by this point :lol:

Maybe the places were not actaully protesting the lost revenue from the smoking ban, but the cost of having to actaully clean the place properly each night. :unsure:

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I won't out them, but just last night I was corrupted by several members of this board.

The bizarre thing is that nobody smokes in their own house any more, so we're at home and we're still huddled against the elements.

Actually, last night was a good night for smoking on the porch.

Unless you're the one that has to pick up the butts off the lawn the next day. :lol:

I was in Charlotte last weekend, where smoking is definitely still allowed in restaurants, and have to say that it annoyed me somewhat. Montgomery County has been smoke-free long enough that I take it for granted in restaurants. Bars are another story...tomorrow night I will be enjoying the 9:30 Club without the attendant haze of tobacco. I can't imagine the ambient smell will be any better. Ick.

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Not at the table but at the bar. I've enjoyed quite a few good meals at the bar.

Here is what I found:

Bistro Bistro

Clare and Don's Beach Shack

The Front Page Restaurant & Grille

Hard Times Cafe

Matsutake Sushi & Steakhouse

Mister Days Sports Rock Cafe

Pines of Italy

Rock-It Grill

Seagars

SoBe Seafood Co.

Stars & Stripes

Two-Nineteen Restaurant

Zig's

You can definitely add the Stardust Restaurant in Alexandria to your list (Montgomery at Washington, behind the Wendy's). They have a short but good draft beer list, and the burgers look pretty decent too. And...all the booths in the front room where the bar is, have huge, heavy glass ashtrays on them.
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The funny thing I've noticed is that a lot of these places now possess a funky smell since the ban has gone into effect, as if the smoke was somehow masking it before. I suppose it's sort of like how you don't notice that your clothes reek of cigarette smoke until you get home. Nanny O'Brien's must be downright unbearable by this point :lol:

Someone should talk to the DC Restaurant Association about this! Stat! Something must be done about this before everyone starts going to Virginia where funk is outlawed! I call upon all the fine dues-paying members of the DC Restaurant Association to demand that the Association get to the bottom of this. After all, what are your dues paying for! Where are the op-eds? Where are the studies showing how the presence of funk will spell doom and gloom!

(In all honesty, I'm rather surprised there was no backlash from the dues-paying members of the DC Restaurant Association against the organization for spending tons of their money on a useless campaign against the ban. If I was a member of that association, I'd be furious. It may not be today. It may not be tomorrow. It may not be next year, but the ban will eventually be enacted nationwide. Even in Virginia, where they'll stand to lose millions in Federal funds if they don't comply with Federal health statutes that might be passed in 2012. That's exactly how the 21 year old drinking age came about.)

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I don't care who smokes and who doesn't. It's there body. However, as it relates to me I care not to be around smoke. I wreaks havoc on my throat, my sense of smell goes to hell and my cloths stink, not to mention the pounding headache I get from breathing someone's exhaled poison. I am in favor of the ban. The arguement that people will run to virginia is ridiculous. :lol: I doubt anyone is willing to travel any great distance just to smoke in a restaurant. :unsure:

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I am annoyed by pedestrians with cigarettes in hand if not without sympathy for many who can't quit or lack incentives to stop. I reserve judgment for parents pushing strollers as they smoke and teen-agers who ought to be locked up when caught in the act and forced to listen to WAMU's Sunday morning programming for one week, straight.

One consequence of the ban I've noticed:

Now, when walking past bars & restaurants after 7 PM, I have to endure the powerful smell of cigarette smoke emanating from the crowds huddled at the entrance.

Non-smokers are also vulnerable when approaching large public buildings where employees, students, or other visitors are taking a smoking break.

I wish that these places would find a nice, open-air space other than the entrance for smokers to congregate. The city shold place restrictions on smoking at the entrances to buildings, too.

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Someone should talk to the DC Restaurant Association about this! Stat! Something must be done about this before everyone starts going to Virginia where funk is outlawed! I call upon all the fine dues-paying members of the DC Restaurant Association to demand that the Association get to the bottom of this. After all, what are your dues paying for! Where are the op-eds? Where are the studies showing how the presence of funk will spell doom and gloom!

(In all honesty, I'm rather surprised there was no backlash from the dues-paying members of the DC Restaurant Association against the organization for spending tons of their money on a useless campaign against the ban. If I was a member of that association, I'd be furious. It may not be today. It may not be tomorrow. It may not be next year, but the ban will eventually be enacted nationwide. Even in Virginia, where they'll stand to lose millions in Federal funds if they don't comply with Federal health statutes that might be passed in 2012. That's exactly how the 21 year old drinking age came about.)

I respectfully disagree with you. The DC ban was forestalled for at least several years. The credit for that goes to the lobbying organizations and their members.

As far as a chef smoking a cigarette in the kitchen? I've seen FAR worse, so please spare me the outrage.

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I respectfully disagree with you. The DC ban was forestalled for at least several years. The credit for that goes to the lobbying organizations and their members.

As far as a chef smoking a cigarette in the kitchen? I've seen FAR worse, so please spare me the outrage.

We've all seen worse Danny Boy but the point of this thread is about SMOKING IN RESTAURANTS!

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You can definitely add the Stardust Restaurant in Alexandria to your list (Montgomery at Washington, behind the Wendy's). They have a short but good draft beer list, and the burgers look pretty decent too. And...all the booths in the front room where the bar is, have huge, heavy glass ashtrays on them.

Old Town has a few options in this department:

Vermilion

Southside 815

King Street Blues

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Have any DC patrons/bars/restaurants been ticketed for smoking ban violations?

Not really something on my radar, but after reading this article about the nonenforcement of Hawaii's smoking ban and our thread about the rapid ticketing of foie gras serving Hot Doug's in Chicago I began to wonder...

Customers continue to light up in some Hawaii bars and bar owners are getting increasingly bold in their efforts to challenge and overturn Hawaii's three-month-old anti-smoking law.

Bar owners are taking advantage of an only-in-Hawaii bureaucratic complication that has stopped the state Department of Health from citing violators: while the law bans indoor smoking, the administrative rules giving the state the authority to actually ticket anyone are still being drafted.

In a city where teenagers are welcome in bars - anything is possible [maybe not "an only-in Hawaii" situation].
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In a city where teenagers are welcome in bars - anything is possible [maybe not "an only-in Hawaii" situation].

DC does not allow teenagers in bars. Some all-age nightclubs happen to serve alcohol, just like some restaurants happen to serve alcohol.

As for the smoking ban, I haven't heard of any violations being handed out. I haven't seen people flouting it, either, but have only gone out a few times since it came into effect (However, I've only gone out in Philly a few times since their ban and have seen it violated on most occasions).

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I'm a former smoker who has not had a cigarette in 6 months. However, even when I did smoke, I did not smoke in restaurants, even where it was allowed (as was the case in parts of MD and is still the case in PA where they allowed smoking sections in restaurants without requiring that they be partitioned off) since I found that smoke and food do not really go well together like smoke and alcohol do. (On the other hand, I find that I enjoy wine much more now.) My wife and son are very sensitive to smoke and do not want it around them. In fact my son, who had lots of breating problems when he was young, finds it to be very uncomfortable to be around smoke. Now that I am not smoking, I understand because I find second hand smoke to be irritating when I encounter it. I guess as a smoker you don't notice it, but when you don't smoke, or quit smoking, it is very annoying to be around. I never thought that I would think that a smoke free bar was a relief, but it is.

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I realize I’m behind the eight ball on this one, but I maintain that restaurateurs should be allowed to set smoking policies according to customers’ preferences. It should be a business decision, not a legislative imperative.
It's a public health issue. Public health is generally conceded to be a matter of government concern.
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I will accept the smoking ban as a public health measure the day the people who so fervently pushed it take on the atrocious emissions from buses and other gas-guzzlers that always irritated my sinuses more than cigarettes ever did. Cigarette smoke does NOT cause code red days.

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I will accept the smoking ban as a public health measure the day the people who so fervently pushed it take on the atrocious emissions from buses and other gas-guzzlers that always irritated my sinuses more than cigarettes ever did. Cigarette smoke does NOT cause code red days.
Nope, but it does cause cancer.

I'm a smoker and am willing to accept the plethora of evidence that second hand smoke is dangerous. Denying that reminds me of the nutjobs who continue to deny that global warming is a reality, citing the one percent of research that can be spun in their favour.

Further, comparing smoking and public transportation/commercial vehicles is somewhat apples and oranges. Smoking is totally "recreational", whereas public transportation and commercial vehicles are essential to day-to-day life (yes, I left the gaz guzzlers out for now).

The smoking ban in question is something that is enforced (mostly) in indoor workplaces. Again, not exactly the same thing when compared to exhaust that disperses more easily in the air.

Having said all that...

1. I'm in total agreement that we need to promote zero emission public transportation and commercial vehicles. The technology is there - we just need the political will (and funding).

2. Gas guzzlers should have an extra tax on them to assist with the above mentioned funding. There's no reason for someone driving an H2 in the city, unless you live in Baghdad.

3. A smarter solution to the smoking ban COULD have been found if people on both sides of the argument hadn't dug in their heels so deeply and had to have everything their way.

4. In the long run, businesses won't suffer. In the long run.

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Nope, but it does cause cancer.

Well. Always gotta go ruining my perfect logic by whipping out those facts, don't you? :o

Actually, while I'm a smoker, I really don't have a position on the issue except to say that in the midst of a multi-hour, multi-course food orgy, it's really nice, and not a bad idea, to step outside on occasion for a smoke and digestion break. Kind of like getting up to walk around the airplane on a long-haul flight. :lol:

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in the midst of a multi-hour, multi-course food orgy, it's really nice, and not a bad idea, to step outside on occasion for a smoke and digestion break
This was one of the things I loved most about smoking. But not one that I miss. I am extremely thankful that I can avoid this distraction now that I have been a non-smoker for some time. Now, I can go through an entire meal without ever thinking about a cigarette and without worrying that I will somehow mess up the pacing of the meal.

And, I am now very sorry about the number of courses that I must have ruined for my friends who had to smell the fresh smoke on me during the middle of their meal - it really is an imposition.

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I will accept the smoking ban as a public health measure the day the people who so fervently pushed it take on the atrocious emissions from buses and other gas-guzzlers that always irritated my sinuses more than cigarettes ever did. Cigarette smoke does NOT cause code red days.
. There are huge and lengthy regulations on bus emissions in DC and they went through a complete overhaul of all the city buses back in the 90's I believe. My mechanic friend was telling me each bus has a mandatory regulator and must be kept below a certain point or get serviced. And as far as private vehicles, I don't know about you guys but I went through inspection three times and ended up having a gut job of my exhaust system (about 400 bucks after all was said and done) to meet the DC emission standards and get my plates. That isn't even counting the hundreds of thousands of regulations on all types of air pollution that are on the books across the country. Code red days have more to do with heat and pollen count than emissions. I don't think pollen is regulated you could crusade against that I suppose but emissions are pretty well regulated. So does that mean you accept the smoking ban as a public health regulation now?

It just bugs me that smokers cry about regulation and free market now but they don't realize that there are THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of regulations and ordinances to protect public and employee health JUST like the smoking ban that have been on the books for years and years but nobody cries nanny state until now. If the tobacco companies didn't have so much money and power this probably would have happnened years ago when governments were making all of these other occupational and public health reforms.

And also how many cases of lung cancer are linked to buses every year? Just curious because secondhand smoke has been linked to approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year. (as of 2005 when the study was done). And this little ditty, "Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of ETS in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces." That is me. I work in one of those restaurant and bars. It always struck me as so selfish that people were so unwilling to walk 20 feet to the door and step outside for a few minutes to significantly decrease the risk of health problems for all the employees. It is not about "clothes smelling good" or any of that other crap to me (and a lot of other food service employees in the District I am sure). It is a health concern. Plain and simple.

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Sorry, I wrote that before I saw xcanucks post. This is just a really personal issue to me and somehow it riles me up a lot more than it should. Plus it is already over, done deal I guess. No point in arguing it now, except that I would like to see it spread nationwide for the benefit of all those other (non-stereotype) restaurant employees like myself out there who don't smoke a pack a day. The sad thing is most of those employees who are the backbone of the restaurant industry and are going to be adversely affected are largely immigrants or lower-income citizens who have almost no voice in the political process and no health insurance.

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Old Town has a few options in this department:

Vermilion

Southside 815

King Street Blues

You've just listed two places in Alexandria that I won't go to because they are too smokey. King Street Blues, where the smoke in the bar is so thick that it wafts up the stairs to the dining room and my hair stinks just from walking through the place and SS815 for exactly the same reason.

I just saw the WP article today about Alexandria trying to ban smoking via its zoning ordinance. It mentions that there is a smoke-free initiative, but I haven't found the list of restaurants participating. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of that list as I would definitely support a place that was smoke free. Thanks!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7022802200.html

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Have any DC patrons/bars/restaurants been ticketed for smoking ban violations?
Jessica Gould's "Calling Their Puff" column in the current Washington City Paper details the smoking ban workarounds attempted by JP's, Tabaq Bistro and Chief Ike's Mambo Room...
The D.C. Department of Health is tasked with making sure the city's businesses obey the smoking ban, and it has already issued a warning to JP's. According to spokesperson Leila Abrar, only five places have received smoking-ban exemptions so far: Ozio Restaurant & Lounge, Shelly's Back Room, TG Cigars, Ollie's Trolley, and a Georgetown University Medical Center research facility. Otherwise, even the most elaborate solutions to the ban seem doomed.
I wonder when DC-DOH will complete the warning phase, take a deep breath and get on with their task.
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Aroma in Cleveland Park was granted the first exemption under the smoking ban, citing a decrease in sales of more than 20%.

I'm disappointed to hear that smoking will again be allowed there. Due to the smoke, I had all but stopped going there, but was glad to return under the ban. Oh well, I still have the rest of the city!

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Aroma in Cleveland Park was granted the first exemption under the smoking ban, citing a decrease in sales of more than 20%.

I'm disappointed to hear that smoking will again be allowed there. Due to the smoke, I had all but stopped going there, but was glad to return under the ban. Oh well, I still have the rest of the city!

Ha! There's hope for The Raven yet!

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