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The Palena Chicken Project


Al Dente

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Does anyone else have problems with excessive smoke from roasting chicken at high temps (475-500)? When I've done this I've wound up opening windows and my garage door even to let the smoke out. I mean, opening the oven was really a problem, and the smoke inside the oven didn't allow me to really see the chicken to check it's progress. The grease just seems to jump off the chicken, hit the oven sides and smoke right up.

Any suggestions? Anyone else have this problem?

I'd love to solve this because the crisp browned skin is awesome.

Are you putting anything (mirepoix, sliced potatoes, etc.) under the chicken to "catch" the drippings? At those high temps, the juices dripping off the chicken and onto the hot roasting pan, may be causing the smoking.

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To get back to the subject of Palena's actual chicken, I had it again last week.

The spice mix is very reminiscent of a simple Chinese five-spice. The chicken must have been pan-seared and finished in the oven. It's the only way to explain it and it's the only way it would work in a restaurant kitchen, in my mind.

I was running short on time so I did a two-hour brine in a more concentrated salt solution with a good measure of five-spice powder as well as a little garlic powder and white pepper. Added a touch of honey just because everyone had been adding sugar to their brines. Mixed it up well and stirred a few times. I used cool but not cold water and I didn't bother to refrigerate. I'm sure a 24-hour brine would've been better, but one does what one has to do.

Preheated to 500 degrees and took the chicken out, cut in half, Palena-style. Did not rinse, but blotted dry and let sit out for twenty minutes, with an occasional blotting to ensure the skin was uniformly dry.

Heated grapeseed oil in a 9" cast-iron skillet just just-below-smoking. Seared the half-chicken, skin-side down, on medium-high heat (i.e. I wasn't trying to smoke the place out) until the skin pulled away from the flat of the pan, about six or seven minutes. Flipped it over so skin-side was up and tossed it in the hot oven. Cooked for about twenty-five minutes more, though I probably could've gotten away with twenty. My guess is that the oven (which is, sadly, electric, and not the most accurate) was hovering closer to 450 degrees.

Let the meat rest about six or seven minutes more, uncovered, on a flat plate.

No mirepoix, no day-and-a-half of work, no twenty-five ingredients. This was simple and elegant and it was shockingly close to Palena. The chicken (Whole Foods air-dried free-range, about $9 a bird) was moist, flavorful, evenly cooked, with a nicely browned but not burnt, crispy skin, nearly fully rendered of fat. The flavor was there, that same, haunting aroma, though I'm sure it would have been more prominent if I'd let it brine for longer.

I still have the second half of the chicken in a ziplock bag of five-spice brine in the fridge, ready for tomorrow's dinner. This was by far the best chicken I've ever made, and it was startlingly close to Palena. I would really love for other people to test out the method and let me know if they fare similarly. For a gallon of water I used about 2/3 cup of salt, two tablespoons of honey, a teaspoon of black pepper, a teaspoon of garlic powder, and just more than a heaping tablespoon of good five-spice powder.

Let me know!

Cheers,

Doctor No

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had to sub cardamom seeds instead of pods because they don't sell pods in these parts. Yeah, I know, Penzy's.
Two words. Well, three. Dean & DeLuca. Balduccis.

For star anise and five spice powder, pretty much every Asian market in the metro area. Suggestions here.

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I am going to get a live chicken this week and try out Dr. No's recipe. (As in it will be freshly killed at the local live poultry market 5 minutes before my purchase of said chicky.) It'll probably be about a 5 pounder. I have the 5 spice powder available so it'll be much easier for me to do that brine than the others because I don't have all those herbs and spices in my pantry. Should I use his ratios for the brine or adjust? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Very glad that someone's actually going to put my much simplified recipe to the test. I hope you have great results, Gastro888!

I've made the recipe a few times now, each time eyeballing the brine and never giving it more than a few hours, so I wouldn't obsess over the salt ratio, though, from the point of view of chemistry, a larger bird should brine longer in a more dilute brine so that you don't have a thin mantle of well-salted and plump chicken with an insipid inner bird - this is also the reason that, when curing a large ham, it makes sense to inject your brine into the muscle and along the bone. Honestly, with this chicken, I don't think it's going to make or break it, but the five-spice is hauntingly good!

I'm absolutely convinced that the pan-sear/over finish/short rest is the way they do it in the restaurant, based on appearance, flavor and the 45-minute wait time.

Let me know how it goes!

Doctor No

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... freshly killed at the local live poultry market 5 minutes before my purchase
A chicken's “untimely” death will cause any stored glycogen in the muscles to contract for about 24hrs. Rigor mortis. The newest industry processing method for the hasty is to apply pulsed electrical current to the stiff to relax the muscles... or wait a day before getting it wet.
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A chicken's “untimely” death will cause any stored glycogen in the muscles to contract for about 24hrs. Rigor mortis. The newest industry processing method for the hasty is to apply pulsed electrical current to the stiff to relax the muscles... or wait a day before getting it wet.
What purpose is served thereby?

Observing that fresh killed chicken is considered a delicacy all over the chicken eating world, vs aged beef which is considered a delicacy all over the beef eating world, I would go with folk wisdom on this question.

Not that I distrust the chicken "industry". :o

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I'm impatient as hell, so I roasted the chicky last night. I didn't wait to brine or air dry the bird. I took that bird home, rinsed it with water and plucked the remaining stray feathers. (@#$!, why are tailfeathers so hard to remove?) Afterwards, I seasoned the bird with a generous amount of:

-salt

-5 spice powder

-white pepper

-garlic powder

-soy sauce

I roasted the chicken for 15 minutes at 450 and then for 40 minutes at 365 on a v-shaped rack. This made for a chicken that was very, very faintly pink at the bone - perfect for me. I dislike well-done chicken. It was fantastic - a tender, moist, juicy, delicious, robustly flavored chicken. I'm never buying supermarket chicken again. I'll be going to the live poultry market from now on. Screw Pedue and Whole Foods Market.

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Past DR picnics have featured a butter tasting, an olive oil tasting, a chili tasting and the (omigawd! what wonderful pork) pig roast; why not a tribute to the Palena Chicken Project? Bring your best effort at recreating Ruta's chicken?

ETA: Oops! Just saw the 2007 Picnic thread. Never mind.

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Observing that fresh killed chicken is considered a delicacy all over the chicken eating world, vs aged beef which is considered a delicacy all over the beef eating world, I would go with folk wisdom on this question.
Rigor mortis, one of the physical phases of death, affects the tenderness of poultry, fish or red meat. If chicken meat is cut from the bone before it has had time to relax, it will be tough and may even shrink. Waiting 24-36 relaxes the muscles making them tender, but costs producers money in terms of space and refrigeration so they try to artificially relax the muscles with electrical shocks which acts like nerves contracting the muscles thereupon using up any left over energy. The live poultry market allows producers to bring their birds to market without refrigerated trucks but may not guarantee a stress-free slaughter which also affects tenderness in meats.

Folklore is comforting, but I trust science.

Factors Affecting Poultry Meat Quality

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I'm not sure how much of my high school biology I retain, but my recollection is that glycogen is stored in the liver.

Glycogen reserves are stored in the liver. Muscle fiber contains it's own glycogen supply that is replenished as it is exhausted.

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What/where is this live poultry market?

When I was growing up in Maryland, there was a live poultry market in Chinatown. Now there's only Hooters. :o

Where I live now in outer borroughs of NY, there are many to be found in the Latin and Asian areas. :lol:

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Rigor mortis, one of the physical phases of death, affects the tenderness of poultry, fish or red meat. If chicken meat is cut from the bone before it has had time to relax, it will be tough and may even shrink. Waiting 24-36 relaxes the muscles making them tender, but costs producers money in terms of space and refrigeration so they try to artificially relax the muscles with electrical shocks which acts like nerves contracting the muscles thereupon using up any left over energy. The live poultry market allows producers to bring their birds to market without refrigerated trucks but may not guarantee a stress-free slaughter which also affects tenderness in meats.

Folklore is comforting, but I trust science.

Factors Affecting Poultry Meat Quality

So if I am to follow your advice, I should get the birdy 24-36 hours before I want to consume it? Interesting, I'll have to try this theory out. Thanks!

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So if I am to follow your advice, I should get the birdy 24-36 hours before I want to consume it? Interesting, I'll have to try this theory out. Thanks!
Not so much my personal advice as it is physiology, and as theoretical as gravity.

Nonetheless, I am wary of live poultry market endorsements unless informed of the birds' proper lifestyle (free pastures, alfalfa sprouts, cable) and whether the market meets strict sanitary measures and refrigeration if slaughtered on site. Live, “fresh” chickens do not ensure they are spared compact cages or chicken shit diets as in other industrial perversions most foul. Any animal markets I have been to sold live animals for home farming/slaughter and the outdoor meat market in Cairo could have provided inspiration for "Dead Alive" type horror cinema.

In 60 seconds, 1 sucker is born to every 175, 925 chickens and I would not have to ask myself which came first.

Note: dropping the bird in boiling water and shocking it easier than pulling feathers. Don't forget to remove the uropygial (oil) gland on the tail. Very bitter.

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Interesting points. I don't know much about the poulty industry except that it's an extremely dirty business. I'm not endorsing a live poultry market inasmuch just commenting on my own experiences. I certainly don't know where the Purdue chicken or X brand chicken came as I don't know what that chicken was doing prior to arriving to the market. Given the points you make, I'm going to do a bit more research the next time around.

This particular market did not give particulars on how the chickens were raised. The chickens appeared to be clean and healthy and the market was relatively clean. There was no overflow of garbage or chicken excrement - it was as clean as a chicken market could get in the city. I did specifically pick a chicken on the top cage but I don't know how clean the chicken was prior to my selection.

(Of course the most ideal situation wuld be for me to find a organic, free-range chicken farm where I know how my poultry was raised but unfortunately I have no clue where to find one.)

I chose the chicken and they took the chicken to the backroom, slaughtered and cleaned it and presented it all nicely wrapped in a bag for me to take home. There were still some remaining end of the feathers in the tail that wouldn't come out without alot of picking and digging. Where is the uropygial gland on the tail? Is it directly on the top?

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Where is the uropygial gland on the tail? Is it directly on the top?
The gland thing is about an inch or two from the top-side end of the tail.

Looks like an organic WWII turret.

The hen's exit orifice below is the cloaca.

Easter eggs, Karl Rove and “caca” are expelled from the same feathery viaduct...enough of an anthropomorphic unmentionable to have made BBC-esque Ali G curb poultry consumptionness.

Trivia aficionados should know that the Roman Goddess of “poo” is the all but huggable Cloacina.

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(Of course the most ideal situation wuld be for me to find a organic, free-range chicken farm where I know how my poultry was raised but unfortunately I have no clue where to find one.)
Navigate to the chicken page on the website of Jehovah-Jireh Farm in Montgomery Couny, and make sure to click on the link for the chicken video (broadband). It's very cool. Reminds me of my grandmother's chickens only on a larger scale. She kept chickens for home consumption, not for sale.

BTW, according to the folks at Jehovah-Jireh farm, "free range"chicken is usually a misnomer, even at places like Bell&Evans. They don't have to actually go outside, as long as it's available to them, and there doesn't have to be grass or bugs out there, both of which chickens love and eat when given the opportunity.

Flashing back to memories of my grandmother's chickens -- she used to let me open their coop in the morning. They'd run out searching for bugs, I'd throw them their dried corn, they'd gather around and peck all that up, and go back to looking for bugs. Then I'd go into the coop and gather the fresh eggs. They also pecked up little bits of gravel which she said was for their craw, helped them grind up the food.

My dad says when she slaughtered a chicken, she'd wring its neck, and throw it into a clean garbage can she kept just for this -- when you kill a chicken it starts running around, even if you chop off its head, hence the phrase, "like a chicken with its head chopped off". When it stopped moving then she'd clean it. But she never did this in front of me, so I can't give any more detail.

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SWEET! Thanks, Ilaine. Next time I'm in town, I'll definitely swing by that farm. Wow! I wonder how much those chickens sell for?

Poivort Farci, thank you for your tip. I apologize, I'm a bit confused about the rest of your post but it's good to know that everything comes out of one, ah, chute from the chicken. Makes me think...

Back on topic, where does Chef Ruta source his chickens from? Anyone know?

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So it's really just as easy to brine, say, three chickens as it is one. If I wrap the other two chickens tightly in foil and ziploc, and then freeze them, will this significantly impact the quality of the finished product?

Also, would a brined chicken be amenable to grilling? Either direct or indirect?

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So it's really just as easy to brine, say, three chickens as it is one. If I wrap the other two chickens tightly in foil and ziploc, and then freeze them, will this significantly impact the quality of the finished product?

Also, would a brined chicken be amenable to grilling? Either direct or indirect?

Aren't the frozen turkeys at the grocery stores brined to some extent? I cannot see why it would harm them. The question that I have is why would you wrap them in foil? That is a waste of foil which is not that cheap and doesn't provide any advantage. Wrap tightly in plastic wrap and then put them in a ziploc, unless you have a vacuum bagger thing as that would be the best.

Brined meats, chicken, pork, etc. are definitely amenable to grilling. I would still have them air dry for a bit before cooking so that the skin does not steam.

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Brined meats, chicken, pork, etc. are definitely amenable to grilling. I would still have them air dry for a bit before cooking so that the skin does not steam.

That's the way I do it. Brine for 24 hours in ziplock bag. Then air-dry for 1-2 days in the fridge, turning the bird so that all of the skin gets dried. Then charcoal roast (occasionally I grill, but usually use indirect heat) in the Weber Kettle. Yeah, baby! Cookin' one tonight! :blink:

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well, first off they started with a macho-music-and-basso-voiceover commercial touting Roundup herbicide, showing it being used to kill dandelions, which would have been delicious and highly nutritious if they had been picked and eaten prior to flowering, when the leaves were still very young and tender. So that annoyed me from the git-go. And then-wow-making crappy food from crappy chain restaurants in your very own home and save a few piddling dollars, not taking your labor into account, of course. Fer chrissakes, if you are going to go to the trouble of cooking from scratch at home, which is a good thing to do, why not make wonderful food instead of trying to copycat corporate crap? The whole premise of the book they were touting is completely specious. The best thing on the table was the Patron tequila, which one of the hosts (Robin?) had the good sense to comment on, then pick up and stash behind something tall on the table, presumably so that she could slip it into her bag during the next commercial break.
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So it's really just as easy to brine, say, three chickens as it is one. If I wrap the other two chickens tightly in foil and ziploc, and then freeze them, will this significantly impact the quality of the finished product?

I wonder if freezing something already brined doesn't produce mushier meat once defrosted since the brining would introduce additonal moisture into the meat, hence creating more ice crystals whose formation would damage the texture. Just a thought -- maybe Harold McGee has an answer?
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Last night I attempted to a roast a Palena-esque chicken. Although not quite the same, I figured I could add my results to this thread nonetheless.

I picked up a natural chicken from whole foods on Tuesday and brined for 24 hours. My brine mixture consisted of:

bay leaves, star anise, cardamom, a small pinch of cloves (ground), small pinch of cinnamon (also ground), sage, honey, splash of soy sauce, and some jasmine green tea (in addition to the requisite water and salt).

After brining, I dried the chicken with paper towels, let it air dry for another hour, and re-dried with towels before roasting.

The oven was set to 460 and the chicken roasted, per the ATK method (on a bed of sliced potatoes) for 1 hour. For roasting, I removed the backbone of the chicken, broke the breast bone and laid the chicken directly on the potatoes, with only light olive oil and salt rubbed into the skin.

After 45 minutes of roasting, the thighs and breasts become incredibly dark, so I covered them in tin foil for the rest of the time.

The chicken was amazingly tasty and captured some of the elements of the roast chicken at Palena. The major drawbacks were the browness/dryness of the skin (maybe next time I will omit the oil and salt rub, or better yet, sear skin side down prior to roasting as others have recommended) and the texture of the potatoes. The spuds not crisp up at all, even with a 15 minute round under the broiler, although their flavor was delicious. I have cooked plenty of chickens using this method, but for some reason this bird released a ton of excess liquid and fat, thus yielding soggy potatoes.

I look forward to cooking my next chicken!

(sorry for the lack of pictures)

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Beefnchedda, your chicken sounds amazing! I'm especially impressed by your brine mixture. I too wonder how to keep the potatoes from getting soggy from the juices of the chicken since the chicken is lying right on top of them.

P.S. Can I come over when you make your next chicken? :(

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Beefnchedda, your chicken sounds amazing! I'm especially impressed by your brine mixture. I too wonder how to keep the potatoes from getting soggy from the juices of the chicken since the chicken is lying right on top of them.

I used the potato method recently, only I used halved baby potatoes. The larger size definitely helped amp the ratio of crispness-to-sogginess, but I can't come up with a method for crisping the potatoes after they've absorbed so much liquid and fat. Possibly the use of a rack (if roasting a non-butterflied chicken) defrays this somewhat because at least a bit of the liquid will evaporate instead?

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I too wonder how to keep the potatoes from getting soggy from the juices of the chicken since the chicken is lying right on top of them.

An expectation that crispy potatoes should result from this method is based on a misunderstanding of what is going on in the oven. By cooking a chicken on top of the potatoes, one is essentially braising the potatoes in chicken juices. You aren't going to get crisp potatoes in a moist/wet environment. The only way that you will get crisp potatoes in the oven, is if they are lightly oiled and then the pan they are on is surrounded by very dry hot air. Use the chicken-cooked potatoes to make a smashed potato side dish and take advantage of all of the good flavor from the chicken juices they have absorbed.
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Your expectation that crispy potatoes should result from this method is based on a misunderstanding of what is going on in the oven. By cooking a chicken on top of the potatoes, you are essentially braising the potatoes in chicken juices.

***

To clarify my post, I was commenting on Beefnchedda's description of how he/she prepared the chicken. I've never made a chicken that way myself and didn't make mention of expecting crispy potatoes. Based on beefnchedda's description, I certainly wouldn't expect crispy potatoes, but at the same time, tend to think that there is a way to avoid sogginess. Perhaps you meant to respond to leleboo since she mentioned that she was looking for a way to crisp potatoes?

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Your expectation that crispy potatoes should result from this method is based on a misunderstanding of what is going on in the oven. By cooking a chicken on top of the potatoes, you are essentially braising the potatoes in chicken juices.

***

Perhaps you meant to respond to leleboo since she mentioned that she was looking for a way to crisp potatoes?

The response wasn't meant for you personally--no offense intended. Perhaps I should amend what I wrote to say "AN expectation that crispy potatoes should result..."
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The response wasn't meant for you personally--no offense intended. Perhaps I should amend what I wrote to say "AN expectation that crispy potatoes should result..."

No offense taken although I do have some understanding of how oven-cooking works. As I said, I've never made chicken w/ potatoes as described by beef n'chedda and lelebo before. And as leleboo specifically mentioned that she was looking for a way to crisp the potatoes, it semed like your response was intended to address that question.

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No offense taken. As I said, I've never made chicken w/ potatoes as described by beef n'chedda and lelebo before. It just appeared that you might have beenbe responding to leleboo since she specifically mentioned that she was looking for a way to crisp the potatoes.

And actually I misspoke. I wasn't trying to crisp my potatoes at all -- I meant as an academic, mental exercise, I couldn't think of/come up a way that one could get the potatoes crispy after they've been bathed in all that liquid. I did notice that using bigger "chunks" rather than "slices" kind of kept an element of crispiness intact, or maybe just less of a softness all the way through, but that's just a function of the shape/size of the potato itself (and the fact that my chicken didn't cover the potatoes completely, I'd bet).

Oh, and the last part -- I also did use a rack so that may also have contributed to my potatoes not being entirely mush -- still having some chew to them, despite being infused with all that flavoring buttery drippy goodness. :(

Edited by leleboo
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I think that I was most disappointed that the potatoes were not as crispy as usual (which still isnt super crispy by any means) - this problem might have been caused by (i just realized this now, although i should have thought of this before) the fact that, for some reasone, I used a saute pan instead of my standard cast iron for the roasting. Would I be wrong in assuming that the cast-iron, as a better conductor of heat, would help remove much of liquid, allowing for a crispier potato - or is my science completely shoddy (science really isnt my thing)?

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And actually I misspoke. I wasn't trying to crisp my potatoes at all -- I meant as an academic, mental exercise, I couldn't think of/come up a way that one could get the potatoes crispy after they've been bathed in all that liquid. I did notice that using bigger "chunks" rather than "slices" kind of kept an element of crispiness intact, or maybe just less of a softness all the way through, but that's just a function of the shape/size of the potato itself (and the fact that my chicken didn't cover the potatoes completely, I'd bet).

I get what you mean. Although I've not made the chicken dish w/ potatoes, when I lived in Spain I learned how to make a Spanish sole dish--almost like a casserole. I was taught to lightly fry the potato slices before baking them with layers of sole, tomatoes, and onion along with olive oil and salt and pepper. If the potato slices weren't fried and were only baked, they came out soggy, but if they were fried first, they were firm--not exactly crispy, but not soft and really very tasty. Perhaps it would work w/ the potato slices in the chicken dish too.

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I get what you mean. Although I've not made the chicken dish w/ potatoes, when I lived in Spain I learned how to make a Spanish sole dish--almost like a casserole. I was taught to lightly fry the potato slices before baking them with layers of sole, tomatoes, and onion along with olive oil and salt and pepper. If the potato slices weren't fried and were only baked, they came out soggy, but if they were fried first, they were firm--not exactly crispy, but not soft and really very tasty. Perhaps it would work w/ the potato slices in the chicken dish too.

That is a great idea! I will definitely try that next time.

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i have tried the chicken a few times, and maybe it isn't always spiced the same way?

I don't know if this information is effectively somewhere else in the thread (didn't reread all of it), but from Tom's chat today:

Palena chef-owner Frank Ruta shares that he uses 2 1/2 - to 3-pound chickens from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania, which he brines with sweet spices and garlic -- "more herbs in summer, more citrus in winter" -- then cooks "hot and quick" in an oven fueled with a combination of hickory, oak and fruit wood.

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I'm attempting this dish today. This thread was extraordinarily helpful with lots of good ideas. I was the person that asked Tom Sietsema about the dish in August. While "sweet spices" wasn't a very descriptive answer, the spice brine ideas here make a lot of sense. I cut the chicken in half and brined it for 20 hours. It's currently chilling/drying in my fridge for 6 hours. My roasting plan: separate the skin from the breast and shove some truffle butter between the skin and the meat. I'm hopeful this will help keep the outer meat from drying out while providing good flavor as the skin crisps. I got the idea from America's Test Kitchen, which discusses the technique in The Science of Good Cooking, and The NoMad, which stuffs foie gras and truffles between the meat and skin of their chicken (NoMad chicken is good, but Palena's is better--I'm hoping to combine the best of both worlds with this). I think I'll roast at 450 until the meat is done. If the skin isn't brown enough by then I'll finish (carefully) with a blowtorch.

Here are the brine ingredients:

5 cloves
10 cardamom pods
2 tbsp. black peppercorns
1/2 tbsp. juniper berries
1/2 tbsp. allspice berries
3 star anise pods
1 tbsp. fennel seeds
1 cinnamon stick (broken in half)
1 tbsp. mustard seeds
2 oz. table salt
1/3 cup sugar
3 large bay leaves
1/2 tbsp. dried thyme
1 tsp. nutmeg
1/2 vanilla pod, split (about 3 inches)
Garlic – whole head, cloves peeled and smashed
5 sprigs of fresh tarragon
2 tbsp. honey
zest and juice of 1 lemon
14 cups of water
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Results: I was very pleased with how this turned out. The meat had a wonderful flavor, very similar to what you get at Palena, and was tender and juicy. The skin mostly turned out well. It browned nicely, however it pulled away from the breast meat where I had cut the breast in half. I wonder if I hadn't separated the skin from the breast if it wouldn't have done that; however, I've read that separating the skin is also what helps make it brown and crispy. Thankfully, I suppose because of the brining, the exposed breast didn't dry out. I served the chicken with lemon-braised chard (at the restaurant they serve it with chicory and escarole, but I couldn't find those).

post-10336-0-01662600-1362961488_thumb.j

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I wrote about making the Palena-inspired spice brined chicken on my blog today.

Hi, welcome to Donrockwell.com! I enjoyed looking at your blog. The linked entry is really interesting and after browsing the list on the right-hand margin, I found exactly what I ought to do with the celery root, leeks and carrots I brought home from the market since I have bacon in the freezer and a jar of cranberry beans in the cupboard that I have been meaning to use. So, thanks for the pinto bean soup recipe, too!

P.S. as of this morning the link you provide needs tweaking. Please revise to eliminate the extra "http://" or "http".

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