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When Customers Don't Show Up


Ferhat Yalcin

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Don, really? It's not a promise?  The restaurant holds a spot for you and you have no responsibility to show?  You can call 5 restaurants and say I'll be there at 8 and then show up at most, one?  In fact, I make an offer to give something of value, a table at 8pm on Saturday night and you give me something of value: your word to cancel in a timely fashion or to show up.  I am not a lawyer, but that has a lot of the elements of a verbal contract.

The restaurant is the to provide a service.  So is you lawyer or your chiropractor.  They charge you for services in full if you don't show.

 WHen our Open Table version starts taking credit card, we will require them on parties of 5+ and may go to 3+ if the problem stays as bad as it is.  And with Open Table pay, it will be easier than ever to do so.

Diners and restaurants are in it together.

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Don, really? It's not a promise?  The restaurant holds a spot for you and you have no responsibility to show?  You can call 5 restaurants and say I'll be there at 8 and then show up at most, one?  In fact, I make an offer to give something of value, a table at 8pm on Saturday night and you give me something of value: your word to cancel in a timely fashion or to show up.  I am not a lawyer, but that has a lot of the elements of a verbal contract.

The restaurant is the to provide a service.  So is you lawyer or your chiropractor.  They charge you for services in full if you don't show.

 WHen our Open Table version starts taking credit card, we will require them on parties of 5+ and may go to 3+ if the problem stays as bad as it is.  And with Open Table pay, it will be easier than ever to do so.

Diners and restaurants are in it together.

Who said anything about no-showing?

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26 posts ago.

How would you like me to answer the question?

Which question?  The "is it not a promise" question?  There are people who do things that are flat out illegal who think they're doing nothing wrong, so perhaps it's hard for you to take a firm stance on criticizing something that's a matter of principle.  Sometimes shame is useful, though.

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Which question?  The "is it not a promise" question?  There are people who do things that are flat out illegal who think they're doing nothing wrong, so perhaps it's hard for you to take firm stance on criticizing something that's a matter of principle.  Sometimes shame is useful, though.  

Whichever question you'd like.

Do I feel guilty about driving 60 in a 55? No.

Do I care that it's illegal? Only if I get a ticket for it.

Let me get serious for a second:

Attention, people who no-show: I Shame Thee. Now, please tell us why you do it.

If you dare.

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I just had a flashback to an incident that happened to me almost 20 years ago. I had booked a reservation at a fancy Chicago restaurant (maybe Everest? My memory of the actual name is dim) and my companion at the time was being a baby after a day of cold sightseeing and wasn't sure she wanted to go. I was livid. We had a RESERVATION. She waffled until about 10 minutes before our reservation time, and we were about 15 minutes away by cab, and I finally said that I was leaving whether she accompanied me, or not. I would NOT have cancelled the reservation at such a late date. She did go, but wouldn't eat when we got there. I had a divine meal. So glad I did not cancel!

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I just had a flashback to an incident that happened to me almost 20 years ago. I had booked a reservation at a fancy Chicago restaurant (maybe Everest? My memory of the actual name is dim) and my companion at the time was being a baby after a day of cold sightseeing and wasn't sure she wanted to go. I was livid. We had a RESERVATION. She waffled until about 10 minutes before our reservation time, and we were about 15 minutes away by cab, and I finally said that I was leaving whether she accompanied me, or not. I would NOT have cancelled the reservation at such a late date. She did go, but wouldn't eat when we got there. I had a divine meal. So glad I did not cancel!

You didn't marry this person, did you?

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I bet they did still serve two people in my seats.   It reloaded the seats on their online reservation system instantly and they were gone quickly.  I sort of contemplated sending my assistant over there to make sure the seats sat empty.  In one sense, I paid for them.  Frankly David Chang doesn't seem like the type of guy who would refund my money even if he did fill those seats.

Regarding the ethical issues of multiple reservations, I see none.  I routinely make multiple reservations for hotels and transportation and car rentals and figure it out all later. I don't view a reservation as a commitment until day of (unless, I have agreed explicitly to some sort of contract).

In some ways Opentable has caused this.  It lets me make reservations semi-consciously.  I don't need to think much.  Just tap tap, done.  Before Opentable you had to call, and speak to a human, and it took effort to make a booking. There was a connection with the person who picked up.  You felt obligated to show.  That has all changed.  If Opentable was smart, they would charge for reservations at prime times.  They incentivize you by offering 10,000 points to dine at 5:30.  Why not charge $20 a reservation for an 8 pm prime table and pass the money on to the restaurant owners.

FWIW, my wife and I had a trip to the Dolomites a couple of months ago that we had to cancel.  I had five restaurant reservations that I had made as much as a month or more in advance.  I called every single one until I got a person on the phone who would confirm my cancellation.  For two restaurants I called four times before I got someone.

All of this was two weeks before the date of the reservation.

I did this out of respect, I did this out of consideration, I did this because I want to go back to each restaurant and want them to look forward to me as I look forward to them.

For the person above who makes multiple reservations I am guessing that you and several like you contributed to our anniversary and birthday reservations being cancelled for a group.

I don't care if you admitted it and posted on here.  What is remarkable to me is that you "confessed," admitted, "bragged" about doing this for restaurants, hotels and car rentals. Your rationalizations, your sense of entitlement is frightening.

" I don't view a reservation as a commitment until day of (unless, I have agreed explicitly to some sort of contract)"

Breathtaking.  

Everything that affected me for 35 or so years of travel.  People like you made my life a great deal more difficult.

And for the restaurants...

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I cancel business meetings if the other party shows up 5 minutes late without reaching out to me.  And I wish i could charge for time wasted, but i am not in legal profession.

Dean is right- it is a verbal contract where both parties agree to do something.   If the power runs out or gas turns off I am sure a lots of places will feel bad enough to honor their side of the agreement and provide something extra either then or the next time.

Why should we as diners be held to same standard.

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What are the policies for OpenTable use for reservations made? Is there the ability for Open Table accepting restaurants to 1) require a credit card, 2) require customers cancel reservations x number of hours or days prior to said reservation to avoid being able to use OT to reserve at that restaurant again? To avoid paying a fee (on a credit card as per #1)? To avoid getting 'marked' as a bad diner by the OT restaurant (kind of like how Uber drivers can rate customers just as customers can rate Uber drivers?

It is rare that I make multiple reservations for the same intended event. When I do, I decide which one is ultimately best for me and cancel the rest, all on OT. Often I will make a resize on OT, and then call the restaurant to see if they can shift the time for me if I can't get the time I really want. I do not know how reservation inventory works from restaurant to restaurant, but I do know a restaurant can hold off inventory entirely, limit it to specific periods of time, etc. I think they do this for walk ins or for people who call. Or for regulars.

The thing I find really, really awful these days is that the number of places that accept reservations is dwindling. It's a slow drain, but it is happening. One of my current favorite restaurants will let you make a reservation....until 6:30PM. After that, it is walk ins only. So....you are forced to go there and just sit and fcuking wait. I HATE THAT. I understand restaurants are doing this because of the headache that reservations cause, but those restaurants are ultimately pissing off a section  of clientele that really dislike the 'no reservations' policy. I am far, far, far, FAR more likely to hit up a place I like with far greater frequency if I can obtain a reservation for the time and date I like. I am not the person that is willing to walk up to a place, put a name in, give my mobile number, walk 3 blocks away to go to a bar, hang out for 45 minutes, get the call from the restaurant, settle up at the bar, walk back the three blocks and get seated. THAT IS NUTS. Some people, apparently a lot, are OK with that. And I guess that is why more places are resigning themselves to that, but I'd hate to see the rest of the local restaurant world go in that direction.

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From a more general business context I've seen things of this nature off and on for many many years.  Business can be ugly and brutally competitive.

On the more general context of not fulfilling reservations, its a brutal cost to a restaurant.  Its brutal on the employees, who are mostly paid lower salaries, and brutal to the operator.

If the restaurant is fully or well booked, and it shows that days in advance, it turns away potential real reservations in the interim.  There are hundreds of alternatives.   If many false reservations are made and/or cancelled at last minute or generally late and a relatively large number of seats open up last minute...there are FAR fewer diners who might fill them.  Doing that and doing that regularly takes its toll on the restaurants that are screwed by the people who don't take reservations seriously.   The restaurants lose revenues.

In way too many restaurants the real opportunity to make money only comes on the weekends when they are full or close to full.  Empty seats abound on weekdays.  If a restaurant loses big on a weekend it kills the restaurant and it kills the staff.   If it occurred because people don't treat reservations seriously....then that lack of consideration simply puts a huge financial toll on the people who work in the industry.

As for the restaurants that take reservations from someone such as Joe H, above and then cancel them due to selling out the house for some event.....that too sucks for the diners.   As an operator I'd do everything possible to make it up to those whose reservations were cancelled.  If the diner was set on dining on one particular evening, and one particular seating, as in Joe H's situation, I can't as an operator make up for that lost date and time.  All I can do is make every effort to satisfy the potential customer at another time.  Above all I want that customer's good will.

I might not keep the good will, but as an operator I'd do everything possible to regain it.

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What are the policies for OpenTable use for reservations made? Is there the ability for Open Table accepting restaurants to 1) require a credit card,.

I know that for Christmas Dinner at Corduroy, a notice on OT that you need a credit card to reserve a table is always there. I can't tell you off the top of my head if i input the number online or if I need to call the restaurant and given them my card number over the phone.

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Since 4pm today, we have had a total of 5 parties cancell their reservations. I have rebooked and booked 7 tables, so we did "refill" those reservations. But if I had not had to refill, some of those would have taken earlier or later times and we would have more bookings for the night.

What are the policies for OpenTable use for reservations made? Is there the ability for Open Table accepting restaurants to 1) require a credit card,
Yes for the flex and slot versions, not yet for the ipad version but coming shortly. I am on the ipad version

2) require customers cancel reservations x number of hours or days prior to said reservation to avoid being able to use OT to reserve at that restaurant again?
days in advance, not hours.

To avoid paying a fee (on a credit card as per #1)? To avoid getting 'marked' as a bad diner by the OT restaurant (kind of like how Uber drivers can rate customers just as customers can rate Uber drivers?
No shows are tracked at the restaurant level, and OT tracks globally supposedly blocking a member from making a reservation at a given restaurant with 3 no shows at the restaurant, or an unknown to me number in general.

It is rare that I make multiple reservations for the same intended event. When I do, I decide which one is ultimately best for me and cancel the rest, all on OT. Often I will make a resize on OT, and then call the restaurant to see if they can shift the time for me if I can't get the time I really want. I do not know how reservation inventory works from restaurant to restaurant, but I do know a restaurant can hold off inventory entirely, limit it to specific periods of time, etc. I think they do this for walk ins or for people who call. Or for regulars.
Restaurants can hold a certain amount of reservations for walk in by choice.
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For what it is worth, we have multiple open table accounts and actually do this quite often.  Do we want Rasika or CityZen Friday? Let's book both on Monday and decide on Wednesday (or whatever the cancellation policy is).  For trips it is worse, we often have 4 reservations at different places simultaneously on multiple days so we can build an itinerary depending on when we can get hard to get tables.  We do eventually cancel the ones we don't want.

We don't no show though.  We always cancel as early as possible.  I think I've only been stung once for a cancellation fee - Momofuku Ko. Wife and I was terribly sick day of and I unhappily sucked up $500 or so of cancel fees. I agreed to it to secure the reservation, so I guess I can't really complain.

Let's see:  I have travelled an average of 125+ days a year for more than 30 years.  As I type this I am reminiscing about countless hotels I couldn't stay in, rental cars I couldn't book, restaurants that I couldn't eat in because someone like Adam23 made muiltiple reservations which, until the day or so of the reservation, excluded me and everyone else.  Because of him or people like him, for 30+ years, I changed my plans.

My family has owned restaurants which took reservations.  Adam23 may have reserved at them, too, until the last minute or the last day.

Of course I was once a waiter, too.

Don, you are on the wrong side of the table on this.

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Since 4pm today, we have had a total of 5 parties cancell their reservations. I have rebooked and booked 7 tables, so we did "refill" those reservations. But if I had not had to refill, some of those would have taken earlier or later times and we would have more bookings for the night.

2 more tables for a total of 7 covers more in the last 55 minutes.  PS, we have 20 tables.

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I can't wait for the day that every single place under the sun (not just restaurants) won't take a reservation without a credit card and also starts lengthening the cancelation period.  Goodbye 24 hours and hello one week!  We can probably also look forward to being charged just to make a reservation too.

Having been in London the past few months, I have to say, nearly every single restaurant here requires a credit card and I have yet to find a "better" restaurant that would take a cancellation less than 72 hours without a substantial fee.  I personally have no issue providing a credit card or agreeing to a cancellation policy several days out.  I will also note that nearly ever restaurant in London has limits on how long you can dine.  2-2.5 hours and you are out - whether it is the pub around the corner with terrible food or The Ledbury.

Someone asked if I cared if a restaurant overbooked tables and cancelled on me.  Interesting question. It is pretty routine in most industries.  Doctors overbook.  Car rentals. Hotels. Airlines. etc. etc. etc.  So in a way, why not restaurants.  If I ran a restaurant, I probably would overbook a bit.  I'm somewhat convinced some restauranteurs in town do to this given how often some restaurants never quite have that table ready until 45 minutes after your reservation time.  I think it presents an interesting business opportunity for the programmers who figure out airplane loads and hotel loads.  Figure out who is most likely to cancel a reservation using some complicated algorithm and restaurant owners can maximize profits and loads and figure out the right way to overbook their restaurant.

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Don, you are on the wrong side of the table on this.

You know nothing about my viewpoints on this (whatever "this" is). Nothing. So stop acting like you do.

I am on the side of open discussion without personal attack, and for the purposes of this thread, not much more than that since my primary role is that of moderator.

[As moderator, I will add that based on what I've read - and *only* what I've read - you have distorted Adam23's words by implying he would cancel "last minute" when he explicitly stated, "We don't no show though.  We always cancel as early as possible," and also "I don't view a reservation as a commitment until day of" So, he has all but come out and said he wouldn't make a last-minute cancellation, and you distored his words by saying, "Adam23 may have reserved at them, too, until the last minute or the last day." If you're going to criticize someone's actions, please read their words more closely.]

Funny, nobody has responded to my comment about canceling hotel reservations at 4:59 PM.

2 more tables for a total of 7 covers more in the last 55 minutes. PS, we have 20 tables.

Dean, what point are you making, exactly? I'm honestly not quite sure, and I'm not being flippant.

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This whole debate boils down to a difference in what a "reservation" means to people. I'm of the (apparently majority) opinion that a reservation is a sort of contract with the restaurant. I wouldn't reserve a table unless I had decided on my plans for a certain evening. When I travel, this means I spend (too much) time poring over reviews and menus to decide where to eat. I normally pick a backup or 2 to call if I can't get a spot at my first choice.

Adam seems to view reservations, at least ones made several days out, to be more of a "bookmark," to be reviewed and cancelled when a firmer decision is made. I find this practice irksome, but as Don rightly points out, this is likely the new reality, and instead of just shaking a fist at the sky, we should start thinking of new ways of dealing.

I wonder if one option might be to offer a much larger number of reservations early on (say a month or more out) with the option, but no requirement to secure with a card. Baked into this would be the idea that if you secured with a card, you would be guaranteed not to be "bumped." Some specified period before the night of the reservation, everyone would be required to secure with a card. It would be filled on a first come first served basis, so that if the spot you had an unsecured "reservation" for had already been secured by someone else with a card, you'd be out of luck.

Seems awfully complicated now that I wrote it out, but it sounded simpler in my head.

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Funny, nobody has responded to my comment about canceling hotel reservations at 4:59 PM.

I wouldn't cancel a hotel reservation at 4:59, since if I've made the reservation, I need to be in that place.  I don't make multiple reservations anywhere.    If for whatever reason I might decide on a different place to stay, I make a new reservation and cancel the old one at the same time.  If something radical changed and I couldn't complete my trip, I would call as long before the deadline as possible to cancel my hotel or other reservations.

When I stay in a hotel or motel, rent a car, or eat in a restaurant, I honor my reservations.  And restaurants are the mostly likely of that group to be small businesses and unable to take the hit of last-minute cancellations or no-shows.  Hilton doesn't really care if you cancel at 4:59.

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If for whatever reason I might decide on a different place to stay, I make a new reservation and cancel the old one at the same time.

Would you ever cancel a hotel reservation day-of, or do you view your reservation as equivalent to promising a friend you'll be staying at their house?

At 3 PM day-of, employees' schedules have already been made. Would-be customers may have already been turned away due to a "full" hotel. Food for the restaurant has been purchased. Linens have been washed. The front desk has been staffed for both check-in and check-out.

My point (as you know) is that I don't think most travelers care *at all* if they cancel a hotel reservation day-of, and I suspect that a large part of the dining population views restaurant reservations the same way. I'm not saying that's ethical; I'm just saying that's most likely the case.

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Would you ever cancel a hotel reservation day-of, or do you view your reservation as equivalent to promising a friend you'll be staying at their house?

At 3 PM day-of, employees' schedules have already been made. Would-be customers may have already been turned away due to a "full" hotel. Food for the restaurant has been purchased. Linens have been washed. The front desk has been staffed for both check-in and check-out.

My point (as you know) is that I don't think most travelers care *at all* if they cancel a hotel reservation day-of, and I suspect that a large part of the dining population views restaurant reservations the same way. I'm not saying that's ethical; I'm just saying that's most likely the case.

I would not cancel a hotel reservation the day of unless it was because I could not get to the location on time or at all.  They have my credit card and will charge it if I don't cancel by XYZ time.

I've never actually had that happen.  If I were to get snowed in at O'Hare and not realize until too late that it meant I couldn't get the hotel I booked for the night, I would have to eat the cost.  That would make me very unhappy.

When I change hotel reservations, it is because I realize that I could be staying closer to where I need to be or, for instance, at the same place my friends who are driving me are going to stay, but they hadn't reserved at the time I made my reservation.

The idea that people are all willy nilly making hotel reservations and canceling them at the last minute seems very odd to me.  Of course, it also seems odd to me that people reserve at 5 restaurants and then decide 24 or 48 hours before where they are going to go.  Or just blow everything off altogether.

The last hotel reservation I cancelled was in 2005.  The work trip I thought was going to be 2 weeks, followed by a leisure week elsewhere, turned into a month-long work trip in the first location.  When I realized that, I grudgingly cancelled.  I realize I don't travel as much as some people here, but I don't get making random hotel reservations you don't intend to keep.  That seems even weirder than making restaurant reservations you're not going to keep.

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When I change hotel reservations, it is because I realize that I could be staying closer to where I need to be or, for instance, at the same place my friends who are driving me are going to stay, but they hadn't reserved at the time I made my reservation.

The idea that people are all willy nilly making hotel reservations and canceling them at the last minute seems very odd to me.  Of course, it also seems odd to me that people reserve at 5 restaurants and then decide 24 or 48 hours before where they are going to go.  Or just blow everything off altogether.

The last hotel reservation I cancelled was in 2005.  The work trip I thought was going to be 2 weeks, followed by a leisure week elsewhere, turned into a month-long work trip in the first location.  When I realized that, I grudgingly cancelled.  I realize I don't travel as much as some people here, but I don't get making random hotel reservations you don't intend to keep.

That seems even weirder than making restaurant reservations you're not going to keep.

Pat, your attitude is commendable, but I suspect it's in the minority. Although I have no statistics to back me up, I'm as certain as I could be that people cancel hotel reservations far more liberally than you do.

The reason you cited (location) seems like what you would term "willy-nilly" to me - *everyone* has "a reason" for canceling, whether it's proximity to your friends, or a last-minute bargain that flashed up on the internet saving someone twenty bucks, or they just don't feel like driving that extra 50 miles, or you go by the hotel and discover it's seedier than you imagined, or any of five-thousand variations on this same theme.

I'll come out and say that I've canceled hotel reservations day-of *many* times, and haven't thought I was doing anything wrong. Okay folks: *There's* your red-meat quote for you to crucify me on!

In the general case, I honestly don't feel like canceling a chain hotel reservation has the same impact as canceling a mom-n-pop restaurant reservation, but that might be because I'm so intricately involved with restaurants (and only marginally involved with hotels) that I'm ignorant as to its impact. Someone running a hotel forum might accuse me of being The Devil because I said this, I don't know. Note also: I'm talking about your standard Hotels.com Embassy Suites-type reservation; not a B&B, or a boutique hotel - the closer you get to "the individual," the less likely I'd be to do this. When I'm traveling, there are times when I don't even know what city I'm going to be staying in until that very afternoon.

Okay, so given that I think this, am I violating some sort of unwritten moral code, or am I only doing what everyone else does? I think it's the latter because if I thought I was doing something wrong, I simply wouldn't do it. And, no, I don't view my reservation at a chain hotel booked through the internet to be the same thing as a "promise," any more than I consider making a reservation for a rental car a promise. I don't sit around making twenty reservations for the hell of it, but I'm certain I've double-booked hotels in two different cities at some point in my life. So how is this any different than what Adam23 does with restaurants?

(I honestly don't know the answer to the previous question, so there's your entry point for discussion.)

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Dean, what point are you making, exactly? I'm honestly not quite sure, and I'm not being flippant.

Just offering raw date on the cancellation situation to shed light.  No point, just for what its worth.

By the way, we had a regular customer no show tonight for a party of 8.  Even if I had their credit card, what do you think would be the response if i put thru a cancellation fee?  Some would say "you got me" and others would be ex regulars tomorrow.

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By the way, we had a regular customer no show tonight for a party of 8.  Even if I had their credit card, what do you think would be the response if i put thru a cancellation fee?  Some would say "you got me" and others would be ex regulars tomorrow.  

It's a tough business, that's for sure. Maybe this is one reason why top GMs command a big salary (of course they'll often delegate things like this to an AGM, who makes a relative pittance). :unsure:

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The only time I've made a reservation and cancelled at the last minute was for Restaurant Week.  I still feel bad about it and it was 10 years ago.

After the RW incident I can't recall a reservation I didn't honor.

Guilt complex?  Perhaps.  But if I make a reservation I intend to act upon it.

To be honest, it's all about common courtesy.

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Pat, your attitude is commendable, but I suspect it's in the minority. Although I have no statistics to back me up, I'm as certain as I could be that people cancel hotel reservations far more liberally than you do.

The reason you cited (location) seems like what you would term "willy-nilly" to me - *everyone* has "a reason" for canceling, whether it's proximity to your friends, or a last-minute bargain that flashed up on the internet saving someone twenty bucks, or they just don't feel like driving that extra 50 miles, or you go by the hotel and discover it's seedier than you imagined, or any of five-thousand variations on this same theme.

I'll come out and say that I've canceled hotel reservations day-of *many* times, and haven't thought I was doing anything wrong. Okay folks: *There's* your red-meat quote for you to crucify me on!

Fine, but would you do the same if it wasn't a hotel, and instead a 10 room B&B?

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Pat, your attitude is commendable, but I suspect it's in the minority. Although I have no statistics to back me up, I'm as certain as I could be that people cancel hotel reservations far more liberally than you do.

The reason you cited (location) seems like what you would term "willy-nilly" to me - *everyone* has "a reason" for canceling, whether it's proximity to your friends, or a last-minute bargain that flashed up on the internet saving someone twenty bucks, or they just don't feel like driving that extra 50 miles, or you go by the hotel and discover it's seedier than you imagined, or any of five-thousand variations on this same theme.

I'll come out and say that I've canceled hotel reservations day-of *many* times, and haven't thought I was doing anything wrong. Okay folks: *There's* your red-meat quote for you to crucify me on!

In the general case, I honestly don't feel like canceling a chain hotel reservation has the same impact as canceling a mom-n-pop restaurant reservation, but that might be because I'm so intricately involved with restaurants (and only marginally involved with hotels) that I'm ignorant as to its impact. Someone running a hotel forum might accuse me of being The Devil because I said this, I don't know. Note also: I'm talking about your standard Hotels.com Embassy Suites-type reservation; not a B&B, or a boutique hotel - the closer you get to "the individual," the less likely I'd be to do this. When I'm traveling, there are times when I don't even know what city I'm going to be staying in until that very afternoon.

Okay, so given that I think this, am I violating some sort of unwritten moral code, or am I only doing what everyone else does? I think it's the latter because if I thought I was doing something wrong, I simply wouldn't do it. And, no, I don't view my reservation at a chain hotel booked through the internet to be the same thing as a "promise," any more than I consider making a reservation for a rental car a promise. I don't sit around making twenty reservations for the hell of it, but I'm certain I've double-booked hotels in two different cities at some point in my life. So how is this any different than what Adam23 does with restaurants?

(I honestly don't know the answer to the previous question, so there's your entry point for discussion.)

I don't think I'm particularly commendable.  You mentioned canceling hotels at the last minute or I wouldn't have commented.  I realize that Adam included hotels in the list of thing he multi-booked and cancelled, but you seemed to make it some kind of challenge.

Personally, I think of hotel reservations as being different than restaurant reservations.  In part, because you're often dealing with large chains, but also because that accounts for the entire geographical location you are targeting.  You might need to be staying in a different spot than you first thought, but the restaurants you eat in have a lot more flexibility.

And, while I imagine this will be different for people reading 5 years from now, there is a difference in that only a few restaurants require a prepaid reservation, but you have to commit to the hotel with a credit card payment, even a non-exceptional place.

My greatest concern when I guarantee a hotel reservation is that something will happen and I won't get there but will still have to pay.  I tend to avoid restaurants where I can't cancel, since you never know what will happen.  During the summer, I cancelled a reservation for something I would have liked to do but I was unsure and I didn't want to get past the window for canceling.

I completely understand why restaurants need the guaranteed money, but I wish things weren't going this direction.

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Personally, I think of hotel reservations as being different than restaurant reservations.  In part, because you're often dealing with large chains, but also because that accounts for the entire geographical location you are targeting.  You might need to be staying in a different spot than you first thought, but the restaurants you eat in have a lot more flexibility.

The other thing that's different about a hotel is even if you cancel at 5:59, they can book the room at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10pm"¦..etc and still get 100% of the room rate.  The 6:00 pm canceled table at a restaurant can't be "rebooked" at 7, 8, 9, or 10pm (it can be booked later in the evening, but you can't get the money back for the lost time)

And I'll agree with Pat, I don't think this attitude is commendable.  It's just nice, polite, respectful behavior.  And maybe that's Don's point - - doing once normal (polite) things is now a rarity and should be praised when seen.  But count me as one who has never canceled a hotel and has never canceled a restaurant reservation

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I realize that Adam included hotels in the list of thing he multi-booked and cancelled, but you seemed to make it some kind of challenge.

It was a challenge. People are talking about reservations as if they're some sort of holy covenant, and I'm trying to figure out where the borders are. And they just got fuzzier in my mind:

But count me as one who has never canceled a hotel and has never canceled a restaurant reservation

You've *never* canceled a hotel reservation?! I'm either going to Hell, or there's a special place for you in Heaven.

Jeez, I don't sit around and cancel hotel reservations for sport, but I can honestly say that before this thread, I'd never given it much thought as a violation of ethics (10 room B&Bs being an obvious exception).

I also think that people tend not to multi-book hotels, or at least do it for different reasons ("Hmm ... shall it be the Hilton or the Marriott? Not sure how I'll feel on Saturday, so I'd better book both." - even if you're the most selfish baboon there is, there isn't much upside in that line of thinking.)

Having toyed with the idea of doing with hotels what I do with restaurants, I suspect a more educated perspective might have an effect on my way of looking at hotel reservations.

Interestingly, just yesterday I was at an Enterprise Rent-A-Car, and they were so desperate for cars that they had driven nearly one-hundred miles the day before to pick some up. When I turned mine in (which I did a day early), it was cleaned *and rented* by the time I left.

Would anyone have issues with canceling a reservation at Old Ebbitt Grill the day of? I think the larger the beast, the lighter the blow.

Enterprise Rent-A-Car is a large beast (in fact, I believe they're the largest employer of new college graduates in the United States (!)), but on a location-by-location basis, they can become a quasi- small business (space after quasi-?)

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You've *never* canceled a hotel reservation?! I'm either going to Hell, or there's a special place for you in Heaven. 

As far as I can remember, it's true.  I'm thinking on it really hard now and I can't come up with one.

I don't travel all that much and when I do, I plan the trip and book a room for a specific reason"¦"¦.vacation, wedding, seeing the Grateful Dead, etc.  Barring an emergency, I'm trying understand why you'd ever cancel a hotel room.

Clearly there are entire universes out there that neither of us understand.

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Barring an emergency, I'm trying understand why you'd ever cancel a hotel room.

Here's one: say you're going to a weekend event and there's a motel on site, with a decent place for breakfast, but it's booked up.  And all the other hotels/motels/B&Bs/hostels/guest houses within a 45-minute drive are booked up, too, except for one skeevy little place.  So you get a room at the skeevy place and put your name on the wait list at the venue motel and hope for a cancellation there.  And a week before the event, there's a cancellation at the venue and you get your room.  Having that room means that you get to sleep an extra 40 minutes and have a three minute walk to the place you need to be at 7:00 (with the possibility of a decent hot breakfast sandwich if you don't mind spending another five minutes walking to the canteen).  And since the reason all the other rooms within a 40 mile radius are booked is a nearby NASCAR race going on the same weekend, when you cancel at the skeevy motel a week before your event (and the NASCAR race), you have no doubt that the skeevy motel will be able to find someone else for the room.

Yeah, I've done that, and have no ethical qualms about it.

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Pat, your attitude is commendable, but I suspect it's in the minority. Although I have no statistics to back me up, I'm as certain as I could be that people cancel hotel reservations far more liberally than you do.

The reason you cited (location) seems like what you would term "willy-nilly" to me - *everyone* has "a reason" for canceling, whether it's proximity to your friends, or a last-minute bargain that flashed up on the internet saving someone twenty bucks, or they just don't feel like driving that extra 50 miles, or you go by the hotel and discover it's seedier than you imagined, or any of five-thousand variations on this same theme.

I'll come out and say that I've canceled hotel reservations day-of *many* times, and haven't thought I was doing anything wrong. Okay folks: *There's* your red-meat quote for you to crucify me on!

In the general case, I honestly don't feel like canceling a chain hotel reservation has the same impact as canceling a mom-n-pop restaurant reservation, but that might be because I'm so intricately involved with restaurants (and only marginally involved with hotels) that I'm ignorant as to its impact. Someone running a hotel forum might accuse me of being The Devil because I said this, I don't know. Note also: I'm talking about your standard Hotels.com Embassy Suites-type reservation; not a B&B, or a boutique hotel - the closer you get to "the individual," the less likely I'd be to do this. When I'm traveling, there are times when I don't even know what city I'm going to be staying in until that very afternoon.

Okay, so given that I think this, am I violating some sort of unwritten moral code, or am I only doing what everyone else does? I think it's the latter because if I thought I was doing something wrong, I simply wouldn't do it. And, no, I don't view my reservation at a chain hotel booked through the internet to be the same thing as a "promise," any more than I consider making a reservation for a rental car a promise. I don't sit around making twenty reservations for the hell of it, but I'm certain I've double-booked hotels in two different cities at some point in my life. So how is this any different than what Adam23 does with restaurants?

(I honestly don't know the answer to the previous question, so there's your entry point for discussion.)

Don, here is a set of data for you - as of last week, I had 69 hotel "stays", accounting for 222 nights year to date (last year I ended up with 164 nights, so more travel this year). In addition to those hotel nights, I have made at least 75 restaurant reservations via Open Table back through May (Open Table won't let me look back further than that).

Of those 75 reservations, none were cancelled. Two were modified to change dates, three and four days out, respectively. I can see how from a restaurant's POV this is similar to a cancellation for that night, but I did end up dining in them at a later date (usually the next day).

For hotel reservations, each of my reservations gives me the ability to cancel without penalty up until 8pm the day before check in. To date, I have cancelled two hotel reservations, based on changing travel requirements (e.g. I needed to be somewhere else). I think that hotel reservations are unique in that they have established cancellation thresholds - later than 8pm the day prior and I am charged one night's room and taxes, minimum. Ultimately if I called my Ambassador I could probably have any cancellation charges refunded due to the amount of business I do with one hotel chain, but I wouldn't dream of doing that.

FWIW, I view hotel reservations and restaurant reservations as equal commitments. The size of the organization doesn't matter to me. I value the ease with which I can book restaurants online at Open Table (and via Resy every once and a while - there, I said it), but the ease of making a reservation doesn't absolve the commitment.

Were I to invest in a restaurant, I would push the operator very hard to either require credit cards/ contracts at time of booking, or not to accept reservations at all.

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Jeez, I don't sit around and cancel hotel reservations for sport, but I can honestly say that before this thread, I'd never given it much thought as a violation of ethics (10 room B&Bs being an obvious exception).

Exactly...my point is we're talking apples and oranges here.  I'd say a majority of the restaurants we talk about here are far more akin to the 10 room B&B, financially speaking, than a big hotel chain, where I wouldn't think twice about cancelling a reservation.

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Exactly...my point is we're talking apples and oranges here.  I'd say a majority of the restaurants we talk about here are far more akin to the 10 room B&B, financially speaking, than a big hotel chain, where I wouldn't think twice about cancelling a reservation.

Not exactly - the "Big Hotel Chain" hotel you are cancelling at may in fact be an independently owned and operated hotel flying a "Big Hotel Chain" brand flag under a marketing or management agreement, and may have a lot more in common financially with a 10 room B&B.

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I had a brunch reservation for 8 the morning before an afternoon wedding once.  We got far too drunk the night before and slept into the rez and they called.  I feel bad about it.  I would not have minded being charged, but we were not.

Now there is a useless contribution to his discussion!

It does seem to me that a certain level of cancellation is inevitable and should be accounted for in the business model.  But using any available tool to lower that rate also makes perfect sense.

Deliberately booking several reservations at the same time, knowing you will cancel all but one, seems to have malicious intent at worse, or ignorant thoughtlessness at best.  That's not a really a personal attack.

Common courtesy is going the way of the dodo bird, which is what makes it seem "commendable" above.  Sad.  I blame the millennials.

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Jeez, I don't sit around and cancel hotel reservations for sport, but I can honestly say that before this thread, I'd never given it much thought as a violation of ethics (10 room B&Bs being an obvious exception).

I also think that people tend not to multi-book hotels, or at least do it for different reasons ("Hmm ... shall it be the Hilton or the Marriott? Not sure how I'll feel on Saturday, so I'd better book both." - even if you're the most selfish baboon there is, there isn't much upside in that line of thinking.)

Well, it turns out that no matter why you can't show up for your Hilton or Marriott reservation, it's going to cost you:

"Inspired By Airlines, Hotels Increase Fees - Marriott And Hilton Announce Penalty For Last-Minute Cancellations" by Joe Shakey on nytimes.com

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Well, it turns out that no matter why you can't show up for your Hilton or Marriott reservation, it's going to cost you:

"Inspired By Airlines, Hotels Increase Fees - Marriott And Hilton Announce Penalty For Last-Minute Cancellations" by Joe Shakey on nytimes.com

The only troubling thing I see here is that they both announced it at the same time - there's something very "oligopoly" about this.

It's going to happen with restaurants also, to a lesser extent, as soon as they can get away with it - yet, the restaurants who currently implement the credit-card policy tend not to be well-liked by the public, and I suspect there's a very low rate of customer loyalty with them.

This should be interesting to watch unfold.

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