Iron Cookware

[JuneBacon]

Calling Poivrot Farci...

We had the luxe demo dinner at SF a few months ago and had the pleasure of suckling on one of your pan-basted bone-less rib eyes cooked in irish butter and shallots. Perfection (thanks Trey!).

Trey noted that the pan was iron, not cast iron.

This had been an afterthought in my head until I came across these. They are actually on sale on OpenSky, a 7.9", 10.2" and 12.6" fry pan made of 99% Fe coated in beeswax to protect against oxidation. (for $150).

Can you comment on the advantages of an iron pan, for say searing a steak? Are these going to be the new rage?

I assume you have the benefit of a cast iron pan with the maneuverability of a stainless one.

Thanks!

Note: de BUYER Mineral B Element Round Frypans

[Poivrot Farci]

Although cast iron retains it heat well, it is porous (it can absorb the undesirable flavors of burnt fats), heavy and requires considerable effort to properly maintain. Blue steel (or black steel) will season itself over time, but demands almost as much upkeep. While it does not have the cleaning benefits of stainless steel it is far cheaper than the All-Clad ilk and lighter than cast iron, but it may unfavorable reactions with acids. I’ve seen a stainless steel All-Clad (sandwiched metals) blister and warp. Never with blue steel. And you can get 3 blue steel pans for the price of 1 stainless.

[The Hersch]

I’ve seen a stainless steel All-Clad (sandwiched metals) blister and warp. Never with blue steel.

It's not clear to me whether "blue steel" and "black steel" necessarily refer to the same material, but I have a frying pan that was advertised as "black steel", I believe with the "World Cuisine" brand, and while it performs quite well in some tasks, it certainly warped, and markedly.

[JuneBacon]

It's not clear to me whether "blue steel" and "black steel" necessarily refer to the same material, but I have a frying pan that was advertised as "black steel", I believe with the "World Cuisine" brand, and while it performs quite well in some tasks, it certainly warped, and markedly.

I can't find any discernable scientific reference to the composition of black or blue steel. Specifically the Fe content. I assume that the pans referenced above are mostly iron, but with some other elements mixed in. Maybe your "black steel" has a significant amount of aluminum. I would think a mostly iron composite should not warp.

[JuneBacon]

And you can get 3 blue steel pans for the price of 1 stainless.

Mmm Chinese steel. I dunno, I specifically check labels on my dog food and treats to make sure they're not manufactured in China. I think I may steer clear of chinese steel.

[The Hersch]

I can't find any discernable scientific reference to the composition of black or blue steel. Specifically the Fe content. I assume that the pans referenced above are mostly iron, but with some other elements mixed in. Maybe your "black steel" has a significant amount of aluminum. I would think a mostly iron composite should not warp.

I don't know anything from science, but for what it's worth my "black steel" pan is specifically of the brand that Poivrot Farci linked to.

[JuneBacon]

That is surprising then. They seem affordbale enough that I would buy a few. I tend to abuse cookware.

[Nervous Eater]

I'm interested in these pans as well, specifically the carbon steel frypans. My question is: can these be used to sear/create fond/create a pan sauce? Presumably you're using an acid (wine) and maybe finishing your sauce with an acid (lemon/vinegar/etc.); will the reaction between the pan and the acid negatively impact the taste of the sauce or the pan itself?

Thanks in advance to anyone who has any advice!

[JuneBacon]

I am not sure the taste is affected, it just corrodes the material faster. I have created pan sauces in my cast iron, which is much more porous and as long as you re-season well, I don't think you are going to wear a hole in the pan.

Just don't make tomato sauce in it every weekend.

[deangold]

We have carbon steel and they are well seasoned. We wipe them with oil every night and heat on the stove to dry. Pan sauces, deglazing etc work well... the seasoning coat is impervious. The seasoning can chip off from rough handling, but the way we use the pans this isn't much of an issue as the pans self repair in a few uses. At home, just dro't drop one pan in another and you should be fine. We use Vollrath and they are superb, much cheaper than Wold Cuisine but with welded handles, not riveted. However my source, the webstaurant sells them in boxes of 6 or 12, depending on the size.

They are heavy.

[JuneBacon]

Fantastic. I am in for a group buy!

[Nervous Eater]

Thank you, June and Dean, for the info!

[The Hersch]

I see on Amazon that Lodge is now selling pre-seasoned carbon steel frying pans, for not much money.

[Sthitch]

Over the past 18 months I have become quite smitten with my DeBuyer Mineral B pans. The blue steel pans high heat performance and non-stick quality allow for incredible crusting that I have never been able to achieve in stainless steel or even cast iron. They season in no time, but I have to echo Dean's caution that it will chip if abused, good thing is that those chips season over quickly. I often use acid in my pans and have never had an issue - though I avoid using an acid until the pans are good and black.

I have also switched to the DeBuyer for baking, their carbon steel sheet pans produce just the right amount of color on the bottoms of my cookies, cakes, and dacquoise. The only drawback is that at high temperatures they have a tendency to flex - but that is only a problem I encounter when I am using them to roast meat, not to bake.

[DaRiv18]

I got my 8" DeBuyer Mineral B pan about 6 weeks ago specifically to do omelettes, but I am not getting it adequately seasoned. I've used seasoned it about 3 times in the oven with veggie oil or with pork fat. Even with a tablespoon of butter for a 3 egg omelette, I still get significant stick-age in the middle of the pan. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

[Sthitch]

I got my 8" DeBuyer Mineral B pan about 6 weeks ago specifically to do omelettes, but I am not getting it adequately seasoned. I've used seasoned it about 3 times in the oven with veggie oil or with pork fat. Even with a tablespoon of butter for a 3 egg omelette, I still get significant stick-age in the middle of the pan. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Use it to cook other things first. I recommend anything that is best cooked in fat at a high temperature - like steak, burgers, pork chops, etc. Just heating it in the oven is not going to do it.

[JuneBacon]

I love my lodge carbon steel. Gets great color on just about anything. The texture of the surface changes with what I cook though since browning turns to blackening on certain food items. There's no way I could cook an omelet in mine. I clean it with kosher salt every once and a while. The problem I have had is that I tend to clean things too thoroughly and I think I have removed some of the pre-seasoning.

If your omelet is sticking, try lower heat?

[DaRiv18]

Even though I understand I should dedicate the pan just to omelettes, I think I will have to fry other proteins to get that nice black seasoning that you have Sthitch. I guess once I get there, then the dedication begins. Thanks.

JuneBacon, thanks. I've tried all sort of heat levels, but just as it begins to set, that's when it starts sticking. To clean, I just pour some hot water in it and use a plastic Lodge scraper to get the stuck off parts off. Then I apply a light layer of oil.

[Sthitch]

Even though I understand I should dedicate the pan just to omelettes, I think I will have to fry other proteins to get that nice black seasoning that you have Sthitch. I guess once I get there, then the dedication begins. Thanks.

Yes, it really has to be used to get the right amount of seasoning, and I don't think that you want to use the kind of heat making an omlete to get a pan good and black. I seasoned my crepe pan by cooking burgers and steaks on it. Now I use it just for crepes.

[monavano]

Sur La Table has Tim Love Carbon Steel pans at significant discounts. Does anyone have these DeBuyer type pans?

[DC Deb]

I suggest going to see the DeBuyer pans in person. They are pretty heavy and may be hard to lift when filled with food. Also, the pans have a wide rim--an 8" pan is only 5" across the bottom flat surface.

[zoramargolis]

Sur La Table has Tim Love Carbon Steel pans at significant discounts. Does anyone have these DeBuyer type pans?

According to the link, the pans are made by DeBuyer. I presume this is the same kind of celeb chef deal that All-Clad had with Emeril Lagasse, and other cookware manufacturers have made. Are these of lesser quality than the regular line, do you suppose?

[monavano]

According to the link, the pans are made by DeBuyer. I presume this is the same kind of celeb chef deal that All-Clad had with Emeril Lagasse, and other cookware manufacturers have made. Are these of lesser quality than the regular line, do you suppose?

The SLT pans are very, very slightly thinner, and that it about it. I'm thinking of the 10" pan now (8" too small, I agree) and the 13" Chef's Pan. With this SLT sale, I can get both for under $100, free delivery. Haven't pulled the trigger yet

[lperry]

^ I read about this type of pan on Dorie Greenspan's blog a while back. Here's a link to what she said. I realize she was selling them, so grain of salt and whatnot, but I thought it might help you make a decision.

[thistle]

I purchased a nice cast iron fish pan (7" x 12.5", oval- shaped like a fish) at World Market, looks like it will work well on the grill-now, if I could just fix the camp stove, I need a mechanical engineer around here, things keep breaking.

[monavano]

I got my deBuyer 10" pan today. Serious pan! Quite heavy-- will be doing 2-handed flipping. It comes with a wax coating and calls for seasoning with oil and heat before use. I believe I have to sear/cook in it several times before it will be nonstick enough to do omelettes in.

[ol_ironstomach]

Seasoning a cheap-ass Johnson Rose carbon steel pan from the restaurant supply gives off a "hot" smell that makes my nose runny. But man, I never could get a good saute flip going in a fancy consumer pan before, and it's a breeze in these things. Trying for the dozen microscopic applications of flaxseed oil this time in hopes of getting a nice smooth surface.

[zoramargolis]

 Trying for the dozen microscopic applications of flaxseed oil this time in hopes of getting a nice smooth surface.

How did you decide to use flaxseed oil? Where did you find it?

[ol_ironstomach]

Besides the article a couple of years ago suggesting flaxseed as an ideal oil for seasoning cookware (low smoke point, high polymerization potential), it's also now what Vollrath recommends in their online tutorial.

MOM's carries it in the dietary supplements section.  It's apparently perishable as all get-out, so I keep it in the fridge even though I have no interest in consuming it.

[Gary Tanigawa]

Sheryl Canter, Cook's Illustrated, and Chowhound

[lperry]

I wish they would find an oil that didn't taste like strong, oily fish.

[zoramargolis]

I wish they would find an oil that didn't taste like strong, oily fish.

Do you find that to be true of avocado oil? That was discussed, along with flax.

[DrXmus]

Do you think cooktop griddles can be seasoned the same way, just cranking them to max and letting that go for an hour and letting it cool as normal (repeatedly)? Also, do you think I can use oven cleaner to unseason the griddle I could've seasoned better?

[weezy]

I don't know about oven cleaner, but naval jelly & 0000 steel wool & elbow grease will get you back down to bare metal.

[lperry]

Do you find that to be true of avocado oil? That was discussed, along with flax.

Avocado oil has its own weird flavor.  I think they must press it out with the skins - there's a strong, "green," offensive flavor in there.  Or at least there was in the only can I've ever bought.

[zoramargolis]

I thought all canola oil smelled fishy. Then I found out that is characteristic of canola oil when it is heated to a high enough temperature for frying. Here's what Cook's Illustrated says: "When subjected to high temperatures, the unsaturated fatty acids in canola oil break down and take on a subtle fishy taste." I like to use grapeseed, peanut, or rice bran oil for frying.

[The Hersch]

I thought all canola oil smelled fishy. Then I found out that is characteristic of canola oil when it is heated to a high enough temperature for frying. Here's what Cook's Illustrated says: "When subjected to high temperatures, the unsaturated fatty acids in canola oil break down and take on a subtle fishy taste." I like to use grapeseed, peanut, or rice bran oil for frying.

I like to use the same three oils for frying. I had never used rice bran oil until I chanced upon it at (I think) Trader Joe's a couple of months ago. That and grapeseed oil are very neutral and take well to high temperatures. Peanut oil is also great at high temperature but has a bit of peanut taste to it (which I find congenial in many fried foods). An egg fried in olive oil can be a wonderful thing.

I have no use for canola oil at all. Do we call it canola because of the unpleasant associations of "rape"?

[Rieux]

From wikipedia:  The name "canola" was chosen by the board of the Rapeseed Association of Canada in the 1970s. The "Can" part stands for Canada and "ola" refers to oil.^[5][6] However, a number of sources, including dictionaries, continue to claim that it stands for "Can(ada)+o(il)+l(ow)+a(cid). These dictionaries include the The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language and Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary.^[7] The name was coined partially to avoid the negative connotations of rape.^[8]

[dcs]

Fashioning Cast-Iron Pans for Today’s Cooks, by Julia Moskin in the New York Times online June 28, 2016, and in print in the Food Section June 29, 2016.

[The Hersch]

On 3/7/2014 at 5:11 PM, Rieux said:

From wikipedia:  The name "canola" was chosen by the board of the Rapeseed Association of Canada in the 1970s. The "Can" part stands for Canada and "ola" refers to oil.^[5][6] However, a number of sources, including dictionaries, continue to claim that it stands for "Can(ada)+o(il)+l(ow)+a(cid). These dictionaries include the The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language and Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary.^[7] The name was coined partially to avoid the negative connotations of rape.^[8]

You can add the illustrious Oxford English Dictionary to the Wikipedia deniers. From the canola article in the OED (new in the 3rd edition, March 2010):

Etymology: Acronym < the initial letters of Canadian oil, low acid, after formations in -ola suffix

I'll trust the OED over Wikipedia any day of the week, especially since the Wikipedia etymology cites "official" sources, such as the Canola Council of Canada. I still don't use canola oil, but not because of its name but because it sucks.

ETA: Oh, and can anyone on earth identify another context where "ola" refers to or means oil?

[weezy]

15 hours ago, The Hersch said:

ETA: Oh, and can anyone on earth identify another context where "ola" refers to or means oil?

Shinola?

 

[dcs]

Ola Oils, out of what for the time being is still called the United Kingdom, proudly sells rapeseed oil.

[DonRocks]

2 hours ago, weezy said:

Shinola?

Funny! Funnier still is the etymology of the phrase, "You don't know shit from shin-ola" that I once heard. Unfortunately, it's ethnically disparaging, so I'd rather not print it here, but from a punster's point of view, it's truly very funny.

[The Hersch]

6 hours ago, weezy said:

Shinola?

 

The "ola" in Shinola has no discernible relation to "oil". As the OED says of the -ola suffix:

Used to form nouns denoting commercial products (as Editola n., moviola n., Victrola n.).

Probably the earliest use was "Pianola".

There was an interesting item on PBS the other day about a start-up company using the name Shinola (which it bought the rights to) making semi-luxury goods in Detroit. Their flagship product is the Shinola wristwatch.

[The Hersch]

5 hours ago, dcs said:

Ola Oils, out of what for the time being is still called the United Kingdom, proudly sells rapeseed oil.

They don't say on their website, but I imagine they borrowed the name of their company from the second half of "canola".