A Chat With Gerard Pangaud

[apicius]

You've got a lot of heads nodding in agreement with this.  Is this not a problem in France?

I don't know if you remember but there was a time when top restaurant in france were not taking reservations from american.

To my knowledge it is not as bad as here.

When i was in France I did not ahve the problems except........

[apicius]

Chef,

One of the many things that made the Troigros brothers exceptional was that they were three star chefs that cooked themselves with a relatively tiny brigade of cooks as opposed to acting as expeditors for a large brigade of cooks.

What does the structure of your kitchen staff look like?

What are your thoughts on the chef as cook v. chef as expeditor?

Dear Joe,

You are right we were only around 12 at troisgros for 7 days a week of operation.

I have only 4 cooks and I cook myself; in fact I am the "tournant"

I enjoy cooking.

[jm chen]

Chef, thank you for taking our questions. This has been a very informative discussion so far.

What do you think is the most important skill for a home cook? Knife skills, or the ability to identify good ingredients, or something else? Does it differ from the most important skill for a restaurant chef? Do you think that anyone can learn to make delicious food or that some inborn talent is required?

[Banco]

Chef Pangaud,

Many thanks for joining us; your thoughts in this thread--especially on the culinary/cultural differences between France and America--have made interesting reading.

My question is about sauces and their current role in French haute cuisine. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that the old esteemed role of the saucier in the kitchen has faded, that the best chefs no longer use the traditional sauces, and that things like espagnole, velouté and demi-glace have been replaced by pan reductions, essences, "foams" and other lighter concoctions. While I know this to be true to some extent, how do you see this development? Has traditional sauce-making become a purely academic exercise taught in the cooking schools, never to be repeated in a chef's career? Do you know any top-flight chefs who adhere to the old sauce-making traditions?

Again many thanks for your time here.

Edited January 5, 2006 by Banco

[RaisaB]

Chef Pangaud,

Your answer on what your best dish is, for lack of a better word, excites me. I believe the best dishes are the simplest, with not too many tastes involved! I look forward to trying your scallops! Your restaurant was the first "fancy restaurant" I tried as a newlywed, when we could only afford to go out like that once a year. I am sad to say I have not been there in quite a few years.

My question is: learning to combine foods for the simplest but coordinating tastes, is that something you learned, or does it just come natural? Is it something I can learn?

I have a very old copy of Escoffier's book and will look through for more inspiration!

Je vous remercie, ceci est un discours très éclairant!

Edited January 5, 2006 by RaisaB

[apicius]

Chef Pangaud,

Your answer on what your best dish is, for lack of a better word, excites me. I believe the best dishes are the simplest, with not too many tastes involved! I look forward to trying your scallops! Your restaurant was the first "fancy restaurant" I tried as a newlywed, when we could only afford to go out like that once a year.  I am sad to say I have not been there in quite a few years.

My question is: learning to combine foods for the simplest but coordinating tastes, is that something you learned, or does it just come natural? Is it something I can learn?

I have a very old copy of Escoffier's book and will look through for more inspiration!

Je vous remercie, ceci est un discours très éclairant!

Thank you for your comment.

To understand teh combination and coordination of taste I am going to give you an example:

In painting you have 3 major colours blue, red and yellow and when you combine them you produce more colours.

in cooking it is the same:

You have four major taste: sweetness,saltness,acidity and bitterness.

You need to learn few bases.

In fact I am writing a book about taste and combination.

I talk about everything influencing your taste: mood colour,upbringing,age,gender,race,religion,lifestyle,temperature.

Combining different taste you are changing it! for instance a dessert wine seems very sweet but is light if it has a lot of acidity.

[RaisaB]

Chef Pangaud,

In France your style of cooking would be considered Haute Cuisine along with those of Guy Savoy, Marc Meneau, etc...

But in the past 15 years or so, Paris has seen many sous chefs leave the Michelin race and start their own Gastro-Bistros,starting with Yves Camdeborde, Thierry Breton, Thierry Faucher etc. Now their sous chefs are starting their own bistros (namely Yves Camdebordes').

Why is it (in your opinion), that we do not have in our country the true bistro style without the Haute Cuisine Prices? (Even though our prices are substantially lower than a similar restos in France for the higher cuisine such as yours) Are chefs afraid to experiment? (I do not mean you of course, but newer chefs, starting out).

Thank you for all your responses.

Edited January 6, 2006 by RaisaB

[V.H.]

I also love vietnamese cooking which the only natural "fusion" cooking (french and asian)

My mom? Seriously the best Vietnamese cook ever.

Maybe we can work out some sort of exchange on the cooking class/dinner.

Thank you so much for joining us and for your wonderful responses!

[shogun]

Chef Pangaud, thanks for doing this chat! What advice would you give to somebody just starting out in professional cooking? Do you feel that stages are worthwhile for the new cook and aspiring chef? How about travel and work in France? Is there still value in that, or is it an outdated practice?

Thanks!

[apicius]

Chef, thank you for taking our questions. This has been a very informative discussion so far.

What do you think is the most important skill for a home cook? Knife skills, or the ability to identify good ingredients, or something else? Does it differ from the most important skill for a restaurant chef? Do you think that anyone can learn to make delicious food or that some inborn talent is required?

Dear Jael,

I think the most important thing for a home cook is to follow your instinct and taste.

I see too many amateur cook "obsessed" with recipe!

Try to cook with emotion and just look at recipe for guideline.

If there is no snapper use seabass, no basil use tarragon, no fennel use celery.

To cook professionnally is a little the same teh difference is to manage a kitchen.

My mom never used a cookbook and was a great cook.

Don't chose a menu looking at nice pictures on a cookbook, chose your menu in finding the best ingredients available.

[DonRocks]

Chef,

Do you still allow your customers to bring their own wines for a corkage fee? I know you used to (by the way, Per Se charges SEVENTY-FIVE-DOLLARS PER BOTTLE!), but I called a couple of months ago and a gentleman told me you no longer do. What are your feelings towards this in general?

Thanks so much for all the wonderful answers so far!

[apicius]

Chef Pangaud,

Many thanks for joining us; your thoughts in this thread--especially on the culinary/cultural differences between France and America--have made interesting reading.

My question is about sauces and their current role in French haute cuisine. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that the old esteemed role of the saucier in the kitchen has faded, that the best chefs no longer use the traditional sauces, and that things like espagnole, velouté and demi-glace have been replaced by pan reductions, essences, "foams" and other lighter concoctions. While I know this to be true to some extent, how do you see this development? Has traditional sauce-making become a purely academic exercise taught in the cooking schools, never to be repeated in a chef's career? Do you know any top-flight chefs who adhere to the old sauce-making traditions?

Again many thanks for your time here.

When I go to serious restaurant or read cookbook from good chef I see taht we still have sauces in french cooking!!!

Robuchon,Ducasse,Meneau,Gagnaie are all making sauces.

With an evolution for sureThey adapt to the modern life!

When I go in a restaurant now waiters are aoplogizing for a cream sauce and say it is a "light cream sauce".

I want a real cream sauce, I want a real icecream even I eat less often of those.

They are different more a jus than a thick sauce they are also shorter.

In fact I see even more sauce in american cooking where a lot of chef are abusing "beurre blanc".

To make my cook understanding the amount of sauce or spices ( I have a hard time to restrain their enthusiasm with safron!!!) I say that the sauce is like the dress of a woman, it should be fit the right way and spices are the make up, you don't want to put too much.

There is an evolution but like music cooking does not forget its tradition.

[apicius]

Chef Pangaud,

In France your style of cooking would be considered Haute Cuisine along with those of Guy Savoy, Marc Meneau, etc...

But in the past 15  years or so, Paris has seen many sous chefs leave the Michelin race and start their own Gastro-Bistros,starting with Yves Camdeborde, Thierry Breton, Thierry Faucher etc. Now their sous chefs are starting their own bistros (namely Yves Camdebordes').

Why is it (in your opinion), that we do not have in our country the true bistro style without the Haute Cuisine Prices?  (Even though our prices are substantially lower than a similar restos in France for the higher cuisine such as yours) Are chefs afraid to experiment? (I do not mean you of course, but newer chefs, starting out).

Thank you for all your responses.

The main reasons that we don't have too many good simple restaurant is the cost of teh rent.

Rent are much cheaper in Europe, the labor is cheaper as well(it is less true now)

Also in Washington we have a unique situation for a reasonable price restaurant.

It has to be a neighboroughed restaurant where unfortunately you don't ahve much lunch business.

The rent downtown are too expensive and people would probably not go downtown for dinner.

So you have to make your money on one service.

Except friday and saturday you cannot expect too much business after 8pm.

So it is difficult.

[apicius]

Chef Pangaud, thanks for doing this chat!  What advice would you give to somebody just starting out in professional cooking?  Do you feel that stages are worthwhile for the new cook and aspiring chef?  How about travel and work in France?  Is there still value in that, or is it an outdated practice?

Thanks!

Yes you should go to France.

To see the techniques, the variety of ingredients,the lifestyle of people, the amazing different style of cooking in a small country like France.

You drive 200 miles you are in Burgundy, 100 miles further you are in Lyon tehn 200 more miles you are in Provence!!!!

It would help you to understand better cooking in the future.

[apicius]

Chef,

Do you still allow your customers to bring their own wines for a corkage fee?  I know you used to (by the way, Per Se charges SEVENTY-FIVE-DOLLARS PER BOTTLE!), but I called a couple of months ago and a gentleman told me you no longer do.  What are your feelings towards this in general?

Thanks so much for all the wonderful answers so far!

This a touchy subject!

No we never charged 75 usd but 45 dollars.

Some restaurateur started to be annoyed about the corkage fee situation.

I used to allow people to bring their own wine on monday night and it was a success and fun for a while then people started to be very demanding!

I have Riedel glasses that we wash by hands; I remember the last two mondays of the free corkage fee where we had one day a table of 6 with 6 bottles of wine and the following monday a table of 8 with 9 bottles of wine. Those people made a big scandal because I did not want to provide those glasses.

The same people expect an impeccable wine service for 9 wines X 8= 72 glasses and it requires almost a waiter which is usually not tip on the wines brought.

I also got tired of people going to buy wine to the liquor store next door and coming to my restaurant.

If people bring a nice bottle of wine I have no problem with it, if they order a bottle of wine from the list I don't even charge for a corkage fee.

The budget of a restaurant depends on the sale of food and wine, it is the risky and difficult business( the highest rate of bankrupcy in any business in the USA)

I think corkage fee should be adjusted and calculated on the average sale of a bottle of wine.

If I charge 15 or 20$ or corkage I am losing money on a potential sale.

Some restaurant like Citronelle refuses to allow people bringing their own wine, we allow it on case by case because too many people abused the system.

Yes I had people who brought a White Zinfandel!!!!!!!!

I am accomodating and nice I just don't want that people takes advantage of me.

I buy an average 1000 glasses a year.

There is a liability issue as well, I pay 1000 dollars a month of insurance in case someone who drank too much in my restaurant has an accident.

If it is a legitimate special or old bottle of wine I understand and I am very cooperative but if it si only a way for some customer to buy a regular wine and pay less in a restaurant it is not fair!

For you information at Gerard's Place I have 2000 sq Ft and I pay close to 80 000 dollars a year of rent.

I hope nobody is offended I just try to be fair here.

[Barbara]

This a touchy subject!

Yes I had people who brought a White Zinfandel!!!!!!!!

(I don't know whether to laugh or to cry)

[DonRocks]

Chef, I'd like to get one more question in if I may (if anyone else has any, please feel free to chime in now as well!)

I've often thought you're somehow able to make sauteed foie gras better than just about everyone. (As an aside, I had a piece masterminded by Nathan Anda at Tallula last weekend that blew me away.)

Where do you source your foie gras? What exactly is the definition of "Grade A?" And how do you make it so consistently good? Is there some hidden trick that you learned under Troisgros?

Also, when's the last time you've made a mango tarte tatin?

Thank you again for doing this chat - based on the amount and content of feedback I've gotten from people, you've won the hearts of everyone here.

Cheers Gerard!

Rocks

[RaisaB]

Don's question about Foie Gras is close to mine. How thick and how long should you slice andcook it so it doesn't melt away? I find I lose more than half of my foie gras when I cook it.

BTW, I bring mine in from France and it doesn't have a grade on it? Is this correct?

[jparrott]

Are there any of the foie gras terrine, mi-cuit, or otherwise preserved products on the (US retail) market today that you'd recommend?

[Al Dente]

Chef Pangaud-- thank you for taking the time to "speak" with us, and I look forward to perhaps getting into one of your cooking classes.

Have you ever had the roast chicken at Palena? A few of us are trying to decode Chef Ruta's recipe, so I was wondering if you might have any input on how we might best replicate this amazing dish at home. If you haven't tried it, perhaps you could share a roasted chicken recipe of your own with us?

There is a thread devoted to this recipe:

The Palena Chicken Project

Thank you,

Mike O.

[apicius]

Chef, I'd like to get one more question in if I may (if anyone else has any, please feel free to chime in now as well!)

I've often thought you're somehow able to make sauteed foie gras better than just about everyone.  (As an aside, I had a piece masterminded by Nathan Anda at Tallula last weekend that blew me away.) 

Where do you source your foie gras?  What exactly is the definition of "Grade A?"  And how do you make it so consistently good?  Is there some hidden trick that you learned under Troisgros?

Also, when's the last time you've made a mango tarte tatin?

Thank you again for doing this chat - based on the amount and content of feedback I've gotten from people, you've won the hearts of everyone here.

Cheers Gerard!

Rocks

I buy Foie Gras from D'artagnan the Hudson valley Foie Gras.

I buy exclusively grade A.

You have 3 grades A,B and C, this is an american classification we don't have that in france.

A is the best it is big, not bruised with very few nerves.B is usually smaller with some bruises and more nerves.C is exclusiviely to make some mousse.

My secret?

I don't think it is a secret but it is in the execution!

A very hot (fuming) pan no fat, notjing in the pan.It makes you sear the foie gras;so the fat stay inside.If is color too fast slow down but don't cook more than 45 seconds on each side. You don't cook the Fopie gras you warm it!!!

It is EXTREMELY important to cut teh foie gras 1/3 of an inch (1cm) if it is too thin it dries out and lose all the fat, if it is too thick you lose teh balance between teh crisp part of the foie gras and the inside.

Also you need to cook it more and lose more.

If interested anyone can swing by my restaraunt and I will show you.

[RaisaB]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.

If interested anyone can swing by my restaraunt and I will show you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh-Oh, be careful what you say on this board. I would love to take you up on this offer!

Edited to add this:

So as long as a Foie is large and blemish free, it would be the same as a US Grade A?

What a differance in price between here and France!

Raisa

[apicius]

Don's question about Foie Gras is close to mine. How thick and how long should you slice andcook it so it doesn't melt away? I find I lose more than half of my foie gras when I cook it.

BTW, I bring mine in from France and it doesn't have a grade on it? Is this correct?

The foie gras here are as good as in France.

For cooking read the answer I made to DON.

[apicius]

Chef Pangaud-- thank you for taking the time to "speak" with us, and I look forward to perhaps getting into one of your cooking classes.

Have you ever had the roast chicken at Palena? A few of us are trying to decode Chef Ruta's recipe, so I was wondering if you might have any input on how we might best replicate this amazing dish at home. If you haven't tried it, perhaps you could share a roasted chicken recipe of your own with us?

There is a thread devoted to this recipe:

The Palena Chicken Project

Thank you,

Mike O.

Chef Ruta is a wonderful chef especially for home made cooking.

I don't know how he does his chicken but I will go to taste it.

Here is the way I would do mine.

You need a very hot oven 450o; one of my former chef used to say I want to hear the chicken singing in the oven.

I will put inside the chicken a head of garlic cut in two, 2 or 3 sprigs of thyme, salt and pepper.I will brush my chicken with butter and UI will bathe it every 5 mns while cooking so the skin is very crispy and golden!!!

It is the way I do it.

I hope you like it.

[apicius]

Oh-Oh, be careful what you say on this board. I would love to take you up on this offer!

Edited to add this:

So as long as a Foie is large and blemish free, it would be the same as a US Grade A?

What a differance in price between here and France!

Raisa

I would say it is 30 to 40 % less expensive in France.

[Beth Cover]

Dear Chef,

I personally am curious to hear more about the book you plan to write on taste. What is the inspiration for your writing a book on this subject, and what has surprised you in your learning about the factors that influence taste?

I've loved reading this chat that Don has arranged. The dinner I had at your restaurant was one of my favorite, and this chat has made it all the richer. Thank you, Beth

[Barbara]

Chef,

If you are still answering our questions, why do you not participate in Restaurant Week? I ask this knowing that one of my other favorite places does not participate and I understand that this can be a real pain (see the thread on the RW Trenches). Nonetheless, I am curious about your own feelings on the matter.

Again, thank you for taking the time to give us such thoughtful responses.

[DonRocks]

Chef,

If you are still answering our questions, why do you not participate in Restaurant Week?  I ask this knowing that one of my other favorite places does not participate and I understand that this can be a real pain (see the thread on the RW Trenches).  Nonetheless, I am curious about your own feelings on the matter.

Again, thank you for taking the time to give us such thoughtful responses.

Gerard may not feel comfortable answering this, so let me give it a shot: Gerard's Place is extremely expensive. Main courses can run into the $40s and I believe even $50 for the lobster poached with Sauternes, ginger and lime. Dinner for two can easily be $400 with wine, tax and tip - compare with Le Paradou, Inn at Little Washington, Marcel's, Maestro, 2941, CityZen and Citronelle, none of whom participate. It simply wouldn't be economically feasible for a restaurant at this price point to participate in restaurant week, as seductive as it might sound to us. Sigh...

[Barbara]

Gerard may not feel comfortable answering this, so let me give it a shot:  Gerard's Place is extremely expensive.  Main courses can run into the $40s and I believe even $50 for the lobster poached with Sauternes, ginger and lime.  Dinner for two can easily be $400 with wine, tax and tip - compare with Le Paradou, Inn at Little Washington, Marcel's, Maestro, 2941, CityZen and Citronelle, none of whom participate.  It simply wouldn't be economically feasible for a restaurant at this price point to participate in restaurant week, as seductive as it might sound to us.  Sigh...

Ah, so. Thanks for this.

[ScotteeM]

Chef Ruta  is a wonderful chef especially for home made cooking.

I don't know how he does his chicken but I will go to taste it.

Here is the way I would do mine.

You need a very hot oven 450o; one of my former chef used to say I want to hear the chicken singing in the oven.

I will put inside the chicken a head of garlic cut in two, 2 or 3 sprigs of thyme, salt and pepper.I will brush my chicken with butter and UI will bathe it every 5 mns while cooking so the skin is very crispy and golden!!!

It is the way I do it.

I hope you like it.

Thank you, Chef Pangaud, I will save this and try it!

[apicius]

To Everybody,

I want to thank everybody about this chat, I had a great time and I will be participate to this website.

Feel free to ask m any questions you want in the future.

Gerard

[Al Dente]

To Everybody,

I want to thank everybody about this chat, I had a great time and I will be participate to this website.

Feel free to ask m any questions you want in the future.

Gerard

Thank YOU. I enjoyed your participation immensely, and look forward to dining at your place soon.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

I would like to add my thanks to you for this very engaging chat. But I have one last question. A couple of posts up, you recommend brushing the chicken with butter and "UI." I can't seem to figure out what "UI" is.

[Banco]

Many thanks from me as well. I hadn't been very aware of your restaurant before, and now I look forward to experiencing it.

[mdt]

I would like to add my thanks to you for this very engaging chat.  But I have one last question.  A couple of posts up, you recommend brushing the chicken with butter and "UI."  I can't seem to figure out what "UI" is.

Looks like a typo to me. I will brush my chicken with butter and I will bath it every 5 minutes. Better plan on having a damn good oven if you are giong to open the door that much.