Wine Tasting Discussion. Who's In? What would you like to see?

[cheezepowder]

Time to start picking a third wine?

(First one was Domaine LaFage Cote Est 2011

Second was Acentor Garnacha 2011)

[Ericandblueboy]

Go for it. There's a new column about Argentine chardonnays fyi. Pick one from the prior column, the new column, or Don's pick, or anything....and start a new thread.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Ericandblueboy

[Sthitch]

If you go with an Argentine malbec you might want to also pick a Cahors to compare with it. Cahors is also a Malbec, but the two styles are quite different and will help you to see the difference between old world and new world wines.

[lperry]

If you go with an Argentine malbec you might want to also pick a Cahors to compare with it. Cahors is also a Malbec, but the two styles are quite different and will help you to see the difference between old world and new world wines.

So you have two to suggest?

[Sthitch]

I will have to see what Cahors are currently available - there are no large Cahors producers so availability is generally limited, though this does not mean expensive. Personally I think that Cahors are the gold standard when it comes to Malbec.

[Sthitch]

What would be an interesting tasting would be to compare Antisto Cahors against Antisto Mendoza as you would see a French and Argentine Malbec made by the same winemaker, but I cannot find the Mendoza locally.

[lperry]

If it will take people a while to do the research, maybe we should try another in the meantime so we have something for the weekend? How about this one from the column mentioned above. Middle of the road in the price, and I like the sound of "vibrant." Any objections?

Finca Sophenia Reserve Chardonnay 2012

★★

Mendoza, Argentina, $15

A vibrant example of Mendoza chardonnay, featuring the citrusy side over
the tree fruits; it is fresh and lively, and reverberates on the
palate.

Country Vintner: Available in the District at Cork &
Fork. Available in Maryland at Cork & Fork in Bethesda; Old Line
Fine Wine, Spirits & Bistro in Beltsville; Wilkens Liquors in
Baltimore. Available in Virginia at Cork & Fork in Gainesville,
Slaters Market in Alexandria; on the list at Pizzeria Orso in Falls
Church.

[Tweaked]

Can we get a VWT Club Subforum going so the various threads aren't all over the place in the main drinking forum?

[lperry]

Bad news. Slater's Market does not have this wine, wires were crossed, and the information in the Post was incorrect. If people in NoVa want this wine, with the exception of the Gainesville location which is a huge haul for many of us, the closest store is Cork and Fork in DC, and the concept of driving into DC on Friday afternoon is not terribly appealing to me. They also had just one case of it delivered.

Props to Susan at Slater's Market for checking on it for us, and for offering to order a case of any wine in the future for our group if we want her to do it.

Thoughts? I'm all for trying to support local businesses, but at this point, I'm perfectly happy to hit Total Wine on the way home and grab something someone recommends.

[sandynva]

I love the idea of talking about wine, particularly as so many of you know so much i'd love to learn from you. if the virtual thing doesn't work out, or maybe even if it does, what about doing a wine tasting meetup, like getting together at proof or cork or some other place that has a good selection of wines by the glass/taste, and we could all try the same wines and discuss?

[Ericandblueboy]

Vina Cobos Felino Chardonnay 2012

★★¹/₂

Mendoza, Argentina, $20

Zesty with flavors of tree fruit and citrus; a nice touch of oak aging gives body without overpowering the fruit.

Country Vintner: Available in the District at Bell Wine & Spirits, Paul’s of Chevy Chase. Available in Maryland at King Farm Beer & Wine in Rockville, Pine Orchard Wine in Ellicott City. Available in Virginia at Planet Wine & Gourmet in Alexandria, Out of Site Wines in Vienna.

What about this?

[SeanMike]

Can we get a VWT Club Subforum going so the various threads aren't all over the place in the main drinking forum?

I just checked and I don't seem to have any ability to create sub-forums. I think you'll need to ping Don.

[lperry]

What about this?

Planet Wine has it. Let's do it!

[zoramargolis]

While you are at it, pick up a bottle of the Vina Cobos Feliño malbec. It's fabulous.

[cheezepowder]

I love the idea of talking about wine, particularly as so many of you know so much i'd love to learn from you. if the virtual thing doesn't work out, or maybe even if it does, what about doing a wine tasting meetup, like getting together at proof or cork or some other place that has a good selection of wines by the glass/taste, and we could all try the same wines and discuss?

That sounds fun, I'd be up for a wine tasting meetup and learning more in person.

[DanielK]

That sounds fun, I'd be up for a wine tasting meetup and learning more in person.

WHAT ABOUT AT THE PICNIC?!?

[lperry]

WHAT ABOUT AT THE PICNIC?!?

I'm in.

[zoramargolis]

I just saw the Viña Cobos chardonnay for $18.99 at Paul's in Friendship Heights.

[mr food]

We've been enjoying the Domaine Fontanyl rose quite a bit-so far the best one we've tried this spring. I bought it at Corridor in Laurel, not sure where else it is available.

[bettyjoan]

I just checked and I don't seem to have any ability to create sub-forums. I think you'll need to ping Don.

Are we anywhere closer to having a VWT Club Forum thingy, so we can continue these discussions in a bit of a more organized fashion? I like the format of what the VBT Club does, but I don't know how difficult it was to set up, and I know Don ad the rest of the moderators are busy busy. If it's a super hassle, no biggie.

[Ericandblueboy]

Is it time for a new wine?

[DonRocks]

Are we anywhere closer to having a VWT Club Forum thingy, so we can continue these discussions in a bit of a more organized fashion? I like the format of what the VBT Club does, but I don't know how difficult it was to set up, and I know Don ad the rest of the moderators are busy busy. If it's a super hassle, no biggie.

Sure, let's do it - and let's also concentrate on keeping VBT vibrant now that VikingJew is in Richmond. I'll split this off into a separate forum. The creation of the forum takes two minutes; it's moving and organizing existing posts that takes a long time.

One of the things I need to get better at is "seeding" things such as this, and then letting others take off with it. The seeding doesn't take much time, but I want to make sure there's some interest. Is there?

[Ericandblueboy]

I'm interested. Anyone else?

[DonRocks]

I'm interested. Anyone else?

If five people want it, I'll do it.

[MarkS]

I am interested. Been derailed lately with my sons coming home from college, one graduating Friday and the Stanley Cup playoffs. I think we need some structure and timing to make this work. I.E. a week to acquire the wines and then a week to discuss.

[lperry]

I'm in.

[MMM]

Please count me in too, although I'll be away from the DC area all summer and might not find the same wines.

[lperry]

Someone choose our next wine!

[lperry]

Does anyone object to a sparkling wine? Bon Appetit ran this article on cava a few years back. I'm going to suggest the second wine, the Dibon NV Brut Reserve. It's summery for the upcoming hot weather, widely available (you can get it at Total Wine), inexpensive (about $11 or $12 now), and maybe something people haven't tried. Sound OK?

[Ericandblueboy]

Ok with me.

[MMM]

Does anyone object to a sparkling wine? Bon Appetit ran this article on cava a few years back. I'm going to suggest the second wine, the Dibon NV Brut Reserve. It's summery for the upcoming hot weather, widely available (you can get it at Total Wine), inexpensive (about $11 or $12 now), and maybe something people haven't tried. Sound OK?

Sounds good. It appears that Paul's on Wisconsin Ave NW also has it at $10.99.

[Mark Slater]

Dibon is sold by Bacchus Importers who almost certainly buy it from a national supplier who almost certainly buys it from a broker in Spain. Each of these steps double the price they paid for the wine. The local retailer buys it from the local distributor, Bacchus in this case, and multiplies his cost times 1.5. At $10.99, the cost of the wine has already been doubled at 3 times. See where this is going? The wine at the source is worth pennies.

[lperry]

Dibon is sold by Bacchus Importers who almost certainly buy it from a national supplier who almost certainly buys it from a broker in Spain. Each of these steps double the price they paid for the wine. The local retailer buys it from the local distributor, Bacchus in this case, and multiplies his cost times 1.5. At $10.99, the cost of the wine has already been doubled at 3 times. See where this is going? The wine at the source is worth pennies.

This process works much like the cooking rules that apply in my home. If you don't like what we choose, you must select the next wine.

Edited to say - I think we went with general guidelines of under $15 and readily available in VA, DC, and MD.

[Choirgirl21]

I think you have $15 in your head because the first wine was chosen off of a $15 and under list from the WaPo. Someone else suggested we keep it under $20, but I don't think anything was officially decided.

Having said that, it is possible to find good wine under $20 and I would happily join back in if someone more experienced would choose the wine, whether it be Mark or Don or... A wine that is typical for it's varietal and still reasonably priced would make me quite happy, as would a few more knowledgeable/industry folks participating in the discussion.

[lperry]

Dibon is sold by Bacchus Importers who almost certainly buy it from a national supplier who almost certainly buys it from a broker in Spain. Each of these steps double the price they paid for the wine. The local retailer buys it from the local distributor, Bacchus in this case, and multiplies his cost times 1.5. At $10.99, the cost of the wine has already been doubled at 3 times. See where this is going? The wine at the source is worth pennies.

I think you have $15 in your head because the first wine was chosen off of a $15 and under list from the WaPo. Someone else suggested we keep it under $20, but I don't think anything was officially decided.

Having said that, it is possible to find good wine under $20 and I would happily join back in if someone more experienced would choose the wine, whether it be Mark or Don or... A wine that is typical for it's varietal and still reasonably priced would make me quite happy, as would a few more knowledgeable/industry folks participating in the discussion.

Mark, Choirgirl21, I understand your points, but these types of responses are why it's so difficult to get people to talk about wine in a public forum. People who work with wine for a living like to tell us there's no wrong way to drink wine until we, the wine-drinking public, inevitably do something, well, "wrong." Most people find wine intimidating enough already.

I don't want wine to be work. I want it to be enjoyable, and I have asked multiple times on this website for people to suggest wines or guidelines for buying, only to be presented with a tome of information I'm supposed to carry to the (small, locally-owned, only carrying wines from small distributors) store. I am willing to do that sometimes when I have the time, but most of the time, wine-police be damned, I'm going to pick up wine at Costco while shopping for other items, and I'm certainly not alone in this practice. I would be perfectly happy for someone simply to tell me what to buy, and the only person who does that regularly is JoeH. Thanks, JoeH, I've enjoyed everything you have recommended.

The first three wines were reasonably-priced, typical for the varietal, and recommended by Dave McIntyre of the Washington Post. The fourth so reasonably-priced as to be called a bargain, typical for the varietal, recommended by Heather John at Bon Appetit. Pricing has ranged from $10 to $21. So far we've got one wine that was well-liked, one that was universally disliked, and one that most people wouldn't buy because it was chardonnay.

I've got my bottle of the Dibon, and will crack it open this weekend when I think a simple, sparkling wine will go nicely after a day gardening in the heat. Please join me.

[Mark Slater]

lperry, you're right. There's no wrong way to drink wine. I just wanted to point out that navigating the wine world has become like navigating the aisles at Safeway, where 85% of the products are owned by 3 companies.

[Sthitch]

I would be perfectly happy for someone to simpy tell me what to buy, and the only person who does that regularly is JoeH. Thanks, JoeH, I've enjoyed everything you have recommended.

I don't think that Mark was saying that you were doing something wrong, he was just pointing out that the wine in question was not of very good quality, if you enjoy it great, but I think that you will find that it is no better than Trader Joe's house brand Blanc de Blanc that you can get for around $5 - this is my bubble of choice for mixed drinks, and is really not a terrible as a third bottle of bubbles split between two people.

The problem with recommending specific wines is that people's taste in wines are so different. For example, if you like big jammy wines then Joe is the guy for recommendations, but if you want a recommendation for a white, well not so much - this is not a criticism of Joe or his taste in wine, I just know that Joe does not like white wines and loves fruit bombs. Availability is another issue, I am often asked by people I know that live in Maryland to recommend a specific wine for them, but I have no idea if what I would tell them to buy is even available in that state, let alone stocked in any nearby stores. But if you want some specific wines, here are 5 wines under $20 that I am drinking right now and enjoying the hell out of - all available in Virginia though other than the Terradora I am not sure how easy they will be to find (from lightest to heaviest):

2012 Terradora Falanghina ($16) - Italy

2012 Muga, Rioja Rosado ($13) - Spain

2012 Moulin de Gassac, Rose ($11) - France

2009 Borgo Scopeto Chianti Classico ($19) - Italy

2010 Marc Aurel Pinot Noir/St. Laurent ($17) - Austia

[Sthitch]

I see that Mark has the 2011 Chateau Gigognan Cotes du Rhone on his wine list, if you find any wine by this producer pick it up without hesitation and you will not be sorry that you did.

[lperry]

lperry, you're right. There's no wrong way to drink wine. I just wanted to point out that navigating the wine world has become like navigating the aisles at Safeway, where 85% of the products are owned by 3 companies.

These really are issues I care about, and I know it is also true for spirits and even for (Lord help us) chocolate. The problem for the average consumer is that, without someone like you walking me through the wine store, I'm going to look to print media, or to the (ridiculous but relatively reliable) number ratings on the display because the simple truth is, I don't want to spend my money on something I won't like. I know it's not ideal, but it is reality.

I don't think that Mark was saying that you were doing something wrong, he was just pointing out that the wine in question was not of very good quality, if you enjoy it great, but I think that you will find that it is no better than Trader Joe's house brand Blanc de Blanc that you can get for around $5 - this is my bubble of choice for mixed drinks, and is really not a terrible as a third bottle of bubbles split between two people.

The problem with recommending specific wines is that people's taste in wines are so different. For example, if you like big jammy wines then Joe is the guy for recommendations, but if you want a recommendation for a white, well not so much - this is not a criticism of Joe or his taste in wine, I just know that Joe does not like white wines and loves fruit bombs. Availability is another issue, I am often asked by people I know that live in Maryland to recommend a specific wine for them, but I have no idea if what I would tell them to buy is even available in that state, let alone stocked in any nearby stores. But if you want some specific wines, here are 5 wines under $20 that I am drinking right now and enjoying the hell out of - all available in Virginia though other than the Terradora I am not sure how easy they will be to find (from lightest to heaviest):

2012 Terradora Falanghina ($16) - Italy

2012 Muga, Rioja Rosado ($13) - Spain

2012 Moulin de Gassac, Rose ($11) - France

2009 Borgo Scopeto Chianti Classico ($19) - Italy

2010 Marc Aurel Pinot Noir/St. Laurent ($17) - Austia

Thank you! This is exactly what I was hoping for when I started the group.

I understand that we aren't being chastised as such, but after more than twenty years of teaching, I can tell you that it doesn't take much to squelch enthusiasm and have people returning silently to their desks. Just look at how many page views this thread has compared to how many people actually posted, and you'll get an idea of how many people are already too intimidated to speak up at all. It is pretty common for wine experts to unwittingly thwart their own efforts to get people to drink more and better wine, and I *really* don't want that to happen here. I want this forum to be a safe wine place - no wrong answers or wrong tastes.

How about comments like, Dibon is from a large-scale producer. See how you like it, and think about how it might make a nice mixed drink for you. When you've finished this tasting, why not try X for a comparison?

Edited to say, for Joe's recommendations, I think of his wine selections as perfect for freezing winter days. I do wish I could find some reliable whites that aren't oaky chardonnays or too thin and acidic. I usually pick up the Feudi di San Gregorio Falanghina at (apologies) Costco when I'm there because it is consistently good.

[Mark Slater]

Steve, I tasted the Marc Aurel pinot-st.Laurent just yesterday and really enjoyed it.

[Choirgirl21]

Just look at how many page views this thread has compared to how many people actually posted, and you'll get an idea of how many people are already too intimidated to speak up at all.

This seems like a pretty big assumption. People could just as easily not be commenting because they're not interested or have nothing to contribute.

As far as the comments that you directed at me go, I don't work for a living in the wine industry. I have a normal 40 hour per week desk job in the science/computer field. I work 2 days a month at a local winery because I love wine and saw it as an opportunity to learn more about it. I'm in NO WAY an expert. And I don't see where I said (or even implied) that anyone was doing anything wrong. I was just sharing what would make me more likely to participate in the future because I also want to continue to learn about wine. And the things that would make me more likely to participate, ie. guidance by someone IN the wine industry are because I am not qualified to be the one providing guidance.

When this got started, there were different ideas floating around of how to pull it off, or so I thought. I didn't realize you wanted it to be a certain way and that input from others that differed from your idea of what was helpful would be taken negatively. So I will go back to being one of the people that views the page but doesn't comment.

ETA: Oh, Sthitch, I did want to ask, is that Muga a red wine? I have 2 bottles of their 2011 Rioja rose in my wine fridge that I picked up at Old Line in Beltsville last week. It was recommended by the bartender at Ranazul but I haven't had a chance to taste it yet.

[Sthitch]

ETA: Oh, Sthitch, I did want to ask, is that Muga a red wine? I have 2 bottles of their 2011 Rioja rose in my wine fridge that I picked up at Old Line in Beltsville last week. It was recommended by the bartender at Ranazul but I haven't had a chance to taste it yet.

That is the rose. Their Reserva (a red Rioja) is quite good as are their Cavas, unfortunately I have not seen the Cavas in a while.

[Choirgirl21]

That is the rose. Their Reserva (a red Rioja) is quite good as are their Cavas, unfortunately I have not seen the Cavas in a while.

Thanks for clarifying. I looked and didn't see the word Rosada on the bottle. I know very little about Spanish wine so wasn't sure if that was the spanish word for rose or an indication of some red wine. Glad I bought 2 bottles of it since it seems to be well liked.

[Joe H]

"Edited to say, for Joe's recommendations, I think of his wine selections as perfect for freezing winter days. I do wish I could find some reliable whites that aren't oaky chardonnays or too thin and acidic."

Thank you lperry for the nice words. Sincerely appreciated.

Shitch is going to laugh at what I am about to type: there is a white that I love and it is from Glen Manor. Their 2012 petit manseng: http://glenmanorvineyards.com/the-wines/2012-petit-manseng/ List price is $25 but a mixed case with a discount will bring it down. Now, for Steve's laugh: it is 14.5% alcohol, fairly sweet and full bore, mouth coating delicious.

...and my wife likes it who hates most of the wine that I love.

Off topic: I talked my way into a wine tasting this coming Wednesday that promises to be one of the most interesting of any that I have been to. http://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/event?oeidk=a07e73xu7jbe56852b4&llr=d47va5cab This features all twelve wines which were the finalists for the Virginia Governor's Cup.

My sincere thanks to those who helped me into this.

[Choirgirl21]

Wow JoeH, I am jealous!

[lperry]

Shitch is going to laugh at what I am about to type: there is a white that I love and it is from Glen Manor. Their 2012 petit manseng: http://glenmanorvineyards.com/the-wines/2012-petit-manseng/ List price is $25 but a mixed case with a discount will bring it down. Now, for Steve's laugh: it is 14.5% alcohol, fairly sweet and full bore, mouth coating delicious.

...and my wife likes it who hates most of the wine that I love.

Sweet whites aren't my cup of, well, wine, but I do like others we've tried from Glen Manor. Mr. lperry has been to many of VIrginia's wineries through his work, and our "cellar" (a couple of big, wooden racks in a cool part of the basement) is disproportionately populated with local wines. We usually bring them out when we have people over, and it's often a surprise to them how good some of the wines are. I do wish they weren't typically so expensive, mainly because I think that's what holds a lot of people back from trying them.

Have you tried the tannat from Chateau O'Brien? High-tannin style reds are usually overpowering to my taste, but this one was like velvet.

[Joe H]

Chateau O'Brien makes an excellent Tannat. However my impression is tainted by what they are charging for it: $78 a bottle. It's ten dollars less than RDV's Lost Mountain '09. $30 more a bottle than Delaplane's Williams Gap Reserve '10 or Barboursville '09 Octagon or Linden '09 Hardscrabble or '10 Glen Manor Hodder Hill or.... http://www.chateauobrien.com/wines/ Tannat is about halfway down the page.

Hillsborough makes a very good Tannat called Onyx which is in the low 30's and Delaplane Cellars has a very good Tannat which I just tried for the first time yesterday and really liked.

Chateau O'Brien also has a nice Petit Verdot. I had a bottle of the '07 a couple of weeks ago and it had really smoothed out. But their '09 suffered a similar problem to the Tannat: it is priced at $49 which is really up there. (The '07 was $39 and that was pushing it.) I believe Linden's Petit Verdot is $28 and Glen Manor's (a really, really Good wine) around $30.

[lperry]

Chateau O'Brien makes an excellent Tannat. However my impression is tainted by what they are charging for it: $78 a bottle.

Yikes. I didn't buy the bottle we drank, so I didn't know.

[lperry]

Dave McIntyre has had two summer wine columns in a row, one on rosé wines, and another this morning that included a couple of vinho verdes, one of which is a rosé. Comments upthread indicate people are already drinking rosés, so does anything from the column look enticing, or maybe we want to try Sthitch's recommendations?

2012 Muga, Rioja Rosado ($13) - Spain

2012 Moulin de Gassac, Rose ($11) - France

[Ericandblueboy]

I know nothing, but I'll try anything.