Comp, Discount, or Full Amount - What Do You Think?

[DonRocks]

Please read the following Q&A *carefully* before responding, noting the back story and circumstance (Jay Comfort is a known area chef who was, among other places, at Poste).

What should have happened?

I gave my opinion on Facebook, but I'd love to see some discussion here.

[jayandstacey]

I don't know the answer and my perspective will be as an outsider...

Mr. Comfort's example of when to expect a gesture seems to be when a fellow insider appears in another's restaurant without particular reason. In the case of the soft opening, a specific solicitation was sent. Presumably, everybody that night was special in some way, hand picked at the minimum and maybe all insiders of a sort.

To that end - I doubt there would be a special consideration for an individual guest on that night. I'd imagine (expect) there would be special consideration for all guests that night, as this is somewhat of the beta launch AND I would presume there's an expection of some suggestions coming back from the guests that would help the restaurant.

I've never been to a soft (or hard for that matter opening.) But yes, I'd expect the following:

- The possibility of a not-quite-polished experience but a high degree of effort and learning

- To see the menu at full prices but be provided a lower price

- That I would provide feedback on the experience - I'd expect to be asked and pried for specifics.

- That the goal for the restauarant that night isn't profit as much as practice.

Maybe it doesn't work that way. That's what I'd do.

I would not expect these after offical opening. After that, I'd assume normal industry courtesy customs resume.

EDIT: To specifically answer the facebook question "Should I expect to receive a bill?" - yes, BUT - the details of the bill should have been spelled out in the invitation to begin with. (like, "we will provide every menu item at 1/2 price except alcohol..")

[thistle]

I'd bet a lot more people would've weighed in on this, but when I click on the link, it's 'content unavailable', so only a portion of the story (actually, no story, I don't know what happened), if I speculate, I'll probably look like an idiot when the whole story is revealed....

[cheezepowder]

I also can't see it because when I click, I get a Facebook login page. And I don't have a Facebook account to log in.

[DonRocks]

You guys need to Friend me on FB! I'll post it when I get home (at an (interminable) awards ceremony).

[DonRocks]

Dear Don -

Here's a protocol question for your readers, friends and followers -

Maybe it's a by-gone tradition, but in my houses, when a Chef or restaurateur comes into your place, you take care of them. If it is your personal restaurant, you comp based on your comfort level, but AT LEAST a comp mid-course. Something not ordered or a known favorite of the diner is far more significant a gesture than simply "comping a drink or 20% off), though I digress.

Recently, I received (a personalized copy) of this email from a fellow restaurateur. IS THIS AN INVITATION OR ISN'T IT?

"Good Day,

As most of you know, I've been working to open (my restaurant) in (DC Metro Location) for the past several months. I'm thrilled to share the good news that my (concept and name), will open to the public on (date).

We have been working tirelessly to prepare for the opening day! We will be soft-opening Friday through Sunday, (Date). We will quietly open and limit the number of reservations these evenings. If you are free, we hope you will join us for dinner.

If you would like a reservation, please e-mail to (email address of the restaurant).

I hope to see you at (my restaurant) very soon.

Warm regards,

(Chef-Owner)"

My wife and I were greeted by name by the GM and Chef. We asked the chef to select dishes for us (as we assumed would be done anyway at a soft opening unless a menu was presented). An embarrassment of several each appetizers and entrees were sent to the table, wine was selected for us and we were chatted up at great length by the Chef, beaming with pride for his team and new establishment. We have been friends for some time, he has dined in my restaurants many times and frequently given the hero's welcome. Should I expect to receive a bill?

Signed Confused Restaurateur...

[DonRocks]

I won't print my response, but you can see it if you friend me on FB

[thistle]

I'm not a confused restauranteur, but I would pay for my meal, especially If I were supporting a colleague...maybe if it's an ongoing concern, & you're a frequent patron & supporter, & they want to extend some courtesies, I'd accept a dish, but you should cover your meal...my opinion only, & I am not in the business...

[Pat]

I won't print my response, but you can see it if you friend me on FB

I don't have a Facebook account and don't want one .

Is this something that has already happened, and the writer is wondering if he'll get a bill in the mail, or was he charged for some/all of the food and drinks and wants to know if that was appropriate? I would certainly hope that the writer left a nice tip for the server(s) waiting on him and his wife, regardless of what the bill was.

Has the writer comped the restaurateur in question when dining in his own establishment?

Otherwise, this seems really inside baseball to me...so, other than tipping, I don't have an answer.

[cheezepowder]

This reminds me of times when I've invited people to go out to a restaurant dinner to celebrate a birthday, and I've agonized over the wording to ensure it will convey, without saying outright, whether I'll be paying for everyone or not. You're afforded more leeway in wording if it turns out that you're going to pay for everyone.

I can understand the confusion on the part of the restaurant guest based on what happened. In reading/parsing the invitation (e.g., it was called a "soft opening" as opposed to something like a friends and family night), I'd guess that the restauranteur expected guests at the soft opening to be charged for their meal. So I could see the guest receiving a bill, but a comped dish or drink would have been a nice gesture.

[Barbara]

This reminds me of times when I've invited people to go out to a restaurant dinner to celebrate a birthday, and I've agonized over the wording to ensure it will convey, without saying outright, whether I'll be paying for everyone or not. You're afforded more leeway in wording if it turns out that you're going to pay for everyone.

I can understand the confusion on the part of the restaurant guest based on what happened. In reading/parsing the invitation (e.g., it was called a "soft opening" as opposed to something like a friends and family night), I'd guess that the restauranteur expected guests at the soft opening to be charged for their meal. So I could see the guest receiving a bill, but a comped dish or drink would have been a nice gesture.

If you read "Miss Manners" diligently, then your first question is obvious: When you issue an invitation to join you, whether in your home or elsewhere, you pay the cost. That is, unless you specify that it is pot-luck. It gets trickier when it is a commercial establishment doing the invite. I personally wouldn't expect the whole thing to be free. At the very least, the servers need to be tipped generously. I would personally also expect to get a check. Whether that check was made entirely in good faith, or not, is the question. I don't think "etiquette" actually covers this.

[saf]

You guys need to Friend me on FB! I'll post it when I get home (at an (interminable) awards ceremony).

If i had a FB account....

[Mark Slater]

If i had a FB account

Try it! You could re-meet your friends form kindergarten.

[Ericandblueboy]

No one has ever invited me to a soft opening so I have no idea what is the norm. In fact, this whole thread is like a humble brag.

[DonRocks]

No one has ever invited me to a soft opening so I have no idea what is the norm. In fact, this whole thread is like a humble brag.

We're 30% industry. I'm fascinated at the (non-industry) answers so far, and am waiting for others to chime in. There are no secrets here, or shouldn't be. And there's no such thing as a humble brag, Nee Nee notwithstanding. In fact, that last sentence reads like a needlessly asshole-ish wannabe thing, but I'm sure it's not.

[Ferhat Yalcin]

I guess it all depends who the two chefs are: are they really good friends(outside the restaurant hours, too) or they are just friends because they are both chefs of their restaurants and following the courtesy rules?

I, personally, would not take any money if I invite my good friends(chefs, gms, restaurant people..etc.) to an opening. However, if a good friend of mine invites me, I insist to pay, not only to support my friend but to make myself feel better. If the situation gets worse and turns into a real challenge of who will pay or deny the money, then a little discount on the check will most likely find the common grounds. However, I believe it would be wrong to not expect a check.

Let`s face it, before any restaurant opening there is a ton of investment $$ and people are looking forward to recover their money, ASAP.

[Escoffier]

I would expect a bill with a reasonable amount (25%? 50%?) subtracted from the menu price. We've been to a number of soft openings and that seems to be the rule of thumb. We tip on the full price of the dish because the servers are doing the same amount of work, it's only the food that's been reduced in price. As to the number of dishes, that's also relatively common. You're expected to try a number of dishes and express an opinion. Think of it as a food survey, not a dining experience. If you want an experience, go back after the restaurant has been open for a couple of months.

[DavidSmelson]

This is most certainly a sticky wicket.

There is much to be said for the wording and the interaction between invitee and invitor....if it doesn't specifically state complementary on the invitation, it's an advertisement. It's easier to distinguish in a conversation as you miss the verbal cues of a conversation when it's in writing.

If someone actually invites me to dinner, be it a soft-open or just a normal weekend, there are several things to take into consideration:

• Was it said as, "You should come try us out sometime?" That is an invitation to come eat and expect to pay for your meal and drinks.
• Was it said as, "Come in. Let me take care of you and your family." I'd still expect to pay, but would not be surprised to have some drinks/apps/desserts whatever comp'd.
• Was it said as, "Dude, come in and let me buy dinner for you and your wife." I'd still expect to pay for drinks.
• Was it said as, "I love you. Thank you so much. Bring your wife and kids in and it's on the house." I'd bring lots of cash so I could tip heavy.

In all scenarios other than the last I would ask for the check and be prepared to pay, be it partial or whole. If they say no, I ask the server for a rough estimate of how much it was so I can tip appropriately. If they won't give me that info, I do a rough calculation and tip heavy.

Please keep in mind that I'm not a professional chef, but I was in restaurant management in a past life and certainly spend more than my fair share of time in restaurants professionally and as a hobby.

That being said, Jay, any time I invite you over to my place you won't be given a check....you either Don.

[B.A.R.]

Restauranteurs comping other chef/restauranteurs/bartenders has really become commonplace in this town and frankly, I'm not sure how it ever got started.

In other cities in which I've ran restaurants, I was always afforded professional courtesies the "regular" dining public would not get. A table at a prime dining hour, waiving of corkage, a free appetizer, cheese plate, whatever. But I always expected to pay.

As I read the "invite" it seemed nothing more than a trawling ad to hopefully fill some tables during a soft-opening with industry folk who might be more likely to excuse some foibles, drink heavily, and tip heavier. I would have expected to pay.

But in DC, there does seem to be some massive comp dinner escrow account that Chefs/Sous Chefs/Managers seem to make regular withdrawals from, and deposits to.

[DaveO]

hmmm. I was never comped at a soft opening. I used to be active in and with the industry, leasing up some restaurants, representing restaurants for space, etc. but that was a longish time ago.

Maybe soft openings were not in vogue then. Maybe I was chopped liver. Maybe I was the 51st choice to invite with an upper limit of 50. What the hell do I know. Ha ha. but I never got one of those invites...and then again I shy from those experiences...and generally hate them.

So I don't know the protocol. But as a general rule for the businesses/smb's with which I've been associated, if I'm promoting, giving introductions, inviting people, etc. I need to be crystal clear with regard to prices. No ambiguity.

if its an introductory event of some sort we need to make a clear declaration about discounts associated with it. Don't create weird expectations, don't leave anyone in the dark.

At least those are the policies that I've learned over the years.

[ad.mich]

A few years ago I'm not sure I had heard of soft openings that weren't comped at least partially. They were either super small friends and family affairs, or slightly larger affairs designed to spread out positive words from locals, work out kinks in service, and solicit feedback on dishes.

Those bigger soft openings seem to be the exception to the rule at this point. If there is anything it tends to be a closed friends/famliy event that might have some media invites.

So to answer the original question - yes I'd expect a bill but I'd be pretty damn surprised if it came in full. One piece of information I was curious about was that the author of the question did not disclose the degree of comping he's given in the past to the owner of this new joint though...

[jayandstacey]

There's a really simple solution, just bust out one of these bad boys.

[DonRocks]

There's a really simple solution, just bust out one of these bad boys.

Ha, ha, ha, that's why I said to note the back story and circumstance.

[SeanMike]

I've been invited to soft openings both comped and non-comped, in part and in full. I always go assuming I will pay the full bill, partially because if someone else is paying, I feel horrible ordering the most expensive thing on the menu.

(Unless it's my brother, or there are other considerations.)

[Choirgirl21]

One point no one has mentioned is the seemingly large number of dishes they received. It's hard to tell, but his "embarrassment of several each" of apps and entrees seems to indicate they received more food than would be reasonable for 2 people to order. So I would say that they should have expected a full bill or whatever else everyone else was receiving (I don't know that there's a standard - I went to a soft opening where we paid only for drinks and of course tip, but I recall when Beuchert's opened they offered a 15% discount to anyone who came in during that timeframe), but if they were brought a large number of dishes perhaps they should have been comped those "extra" dishes.

Of course, if the owner of the new place, who has supposedly been his friend for years has eaten in the poster's restaurant and been comped graciously in the past then my answer might be different, but it's impossible to tell if that's happened or if he's just referring to a perceived industry standard.

[DonRocks]

I thought this thread would be more interesting than it has been, though I didn't want to bias anyone by giving my thoughts in advance. There is a distinct dichotomy between industry professionals and non-industry members - almost unanimously, industry insiders thought Jay got sodomized. I really thought I had "bridged the gap" between the two groups over the years, but now I don't think I have - maybe that's not such a bad thing, as each side gives the other a different perspective to think about.

I'll come right out and say that I think Jay got totally, completely screwed, by someone who I suspect is a first-time chef younger than 35. He broke the code every bit as much as one police officer having given another a speeding ticket, and I guarantee that if he ever sets foot into Jay's restaurant, he'd better lube up with KY before he goes: shenanigans like this come back to haunt you in a big, painful way, and people have long memories.

And no, it wasn't the historically predatory Yannick Cam.

[SeanMike]

I'll come right out and say that I think Jay got totally, completely screwed, by someone who I suspect is a first-time chef younger than 35. He broke the code every bit as much as one police offer having given another a speeding ticket, and I guarantee that if he ever sets foot into Jay's restaurant, he'd better lube up with KY before he goes: shenanigans like this come back to haunt you in a big, painful way, and people have long memories.

Is it screwed, or is it different as time goes on? Seriously -- as mentioned above thread, in the old days a soft opening was a very private event, and now it seems to be fairly public. I can't imagine not being at least prepared to pay, if I didn't ask ahead of time (which to me is like what you've said about tasting tables - don't be afraid to ask about money) if someone didn't specifically say in the invite.

I feel bad for him, seriously I do, but unless you're given food without ordering and then charged for it (which, when he says "We asked the chef to select dishes for us" leads me to believe it's also more like the tasting menu) I can't imagine being annoyed by it.

Were you invited personally? Yes. When I invite people to party - at a bar, at my house, WHATEVER - I try to say what the pay status is, but when invited, I never, ever, assume I'm gratis unless specifically told that I am (and then I typically expect to tip as much as I would've paid anyways).

[lion]

I thought this thread would be more interesting than it has been, though I didn't want to bias anyone by giving my thoughts in advance. There is a distinct dichotomy between industry professionals and non-industry members - almost unanimously, industry insiders thought Jay got sodomized. I really thought I had "bridged the gap" between the two groups over the years, but now I don't think I have - maybe that's not such a bad thing, as each side gives the other a different perspective to think about.

I've been involved in a similar situation with hosting events and different organizers will not charge each other, etc... Sometimes I've drawn the line and made other organizers pay and sometimes not.

The one thing which I think is utmost important is clarity and consistency. If it gets out that some people at the same professional level are paying and others are not, then there's hell to pay. People's egos especially in a small group of people who spend years training and professionally involved in a certain field will not forget.

[Toogs]

The link in the first post is gone, does anyone have the text? Nevermind, asked and answered above (and friend request sent!)

[Toogs]

I will say that from the text of the email, I would have expected to pay some percentage of the bill, possibly 100 percent.

But given the description of what happened at the restaurant it sounds more like a comped deal. You certainly cannot send out "an embarrassment of several apps and entrees each" and expect the diner to pay for them, as they certainly wouldn't have ordered that much on their own, if expecting to pay.