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Sing along with me:

It's beginning to look a lot like Winter

Pho in every bowl;

But the prettiest sight to see

Is the garnishes that will be

The sturdy kind that won't steal the show…

Seeking Pho... good Pho... to be found on the DC or VA subway lines. Previous posts have eschewed Nam Viet in Cleveland Park. Suggestions? Recommendations?

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Not on a subway line, sorry Legant, but very tasty pho was had at Saigon Cafe in 7 Corners--in the shopping center where the Guitar Center is located--across Wilson Blvd. from Eden Center. Hué rice cakes with ground shrimp, and jackfruit salad with pork and shrimp were also excellent.

The pho broth didn't have much star anise flavor, but when the Thai basil was added, the anise-flavored herb provided enough.

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Others' words, not mine. I actually like the place. Although I hadn't been in quite some time -- exes and all that -- I was last Wednesday for some serious comfort food. Didn't have the pho but the roasted pork and vermicilli "stirred" up fond memories. Aah.

Is it really that bad? Like, not worth trying once even if I live around the corner, bad?
Who's up for a reconnaissance mission? Cleveland Park and/or Rosslyn? I'm looking for a new dining companion.

(Otherwise, I'll be on Rt. 7... with a cardboard "PHO" sign and my thumb out. Thanks Zora! :blink: )

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The first snowy day of the year is THE day to have Pho, right? So I went to Pho 50, bypassing Pho 75 along the way. Today it was a miss, with the broth darker in color than normal, less aromatic, and tasting predominately of sodium. I rarely squeeze lime, but today I did just to cut through the salt. A healthy dose of Sriracha and plum sauce also, while the fish sauce sat untouched on the sidelines. An off day for Pho 50.

Cheers,

Rocks.

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Pho Royal

46839 Maple Leaf Pl

Sterling, VA 20166

Problem: Need soup in the outer zone..... What is out here besides chains and Costco? Wait there is a Pho sign on Route 7! Can it be..Pho in the suburbs??

Pho Royal is fantastic! Tucked in a small strip mall on route 7 (near bestway). From the summer rolls to the goddess of all that is good Pho, come try some of the best pho I have had outside of the usual haunts. Really Really good Pho.

[Note: this is Scott's post!]

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It really has been a warm winter, since no one has posted about Pho since December! I've never heard anyone mention Pho 301 before, so I thought I'd post about a recent experience.

Driving home from work in DC with a real craving for Pho 75, knowing it would take too long to get to Rockville before closing at 8pm, we decided to take N Capitol to NH Ave to try the one in Langley Park. We pulled into the lot at 7:45pm hoping that we could still get in...and saw another couple trying the door. It was locked. But what was disappointing initially turned out to be good fortune, as I noted another Pho place on University, tucked into the corner of another strip center on the opposite side of the street. We quickly drove over there to see if they may still be open to give it a try. And having tried this place on a whim, we were pleasantly surprised. The broth was every bit as rich and flavorful as the Pho 75 in Rockville. And I'm looking forward to going back to see if it is consistently good.

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But what was disappointing initially turned out to be good fortune, as I noted another Pho place on University, tucked into the corner of another strip center on the opposite side of the street. We quickly drove over there to see if they may still be open to give it a try. And having tried this place on a whim, we were pleasantly surprised. The broth was every bit as rich and flavorful as the Pho 75 in Rockville. And I'm looking forward to going back to see if it is consistently good.

Hmm... is this the place that has glass on top of the tables? and perhaps smells like mildewed rags, but has thick, luxurious, pillowy chunks of tendon? If so, that place is awesome. Used to go there in my college days.

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Awhile back someone asked for an update on Nam Viet in Cleveland Park. FWIW, I live behind it and have eaten there almost weekly for the past 3 years. Overall the place is good. Some dishes better than others (the vegetable garden rolls and the lemograss-flavored skewered beef are my favorites). The pho is good, but not great. Lots of different options from seafood, spicy Hue beef, vegetable, etc, but the regular beef pho has only thin slices of beef (not the tendon or other more authentic cuts - which I don't really like anyways) and could use more depth of flavor. Sometimes it is spot on, but more often it requires some helpings of condiments to add umph. I usually don't get the pho when I go, because the other items are better, but my wife loves the vegetable pho and gets it everytime. It is still the only decent pho place I know of in the city and since it is near a metro, it definitely wins for accessibility for the city dwellers. My recommendation is go, have a small bowl of pho as an appetizer to see if you like it and then order some of grilled meats or stir fried noodle dishes - the vegetarian Nam-Viet special stir-fried noodles are great (kind of like a vietnamese take on Pad Thai).

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Awhile back someone asked for an update on Nam Viet in Cleveland Park. FWIW, I live behind it and have eaten there almost weekly for the past 3 years. Overall the place is good. Some dishes better than others (the vegetable garden rolls and the lemograss-flavored skewered beef are my favorites). The pho is good, but not great. Lots of different options from seafood, spicy Hue beef, vegetable, etc, but the regular beef pho has only thin slices of beef (not the tendon or other more authentic cuts - which I don't really like anyways) and could use more depth of flavor. Sometimes it is spot on, but more often it requires some helpings of condiments to add umph. I usually don't get the pho when I go, because the other items are better, but my wife loves the vegetable pho and gets it everytime. It is still the only decent pho place I know of in the city and since it is near a metro, it definitely wins for accessibility for the city dwellers. My recommendation is go, have a small bowl of pho as an appetizer to see if you like it and then order some of grilled meats or stir fried noodle dishes - the vegetarian Nam-Viet special stir-fried noodles are great (kind of like a vietnamese take on Pad Thai).

I was wondering and will give it a try - thanks for posting! :mellow:

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I work for FOH

but can I slurp PHO in Bethesda (without driving to Rockville?)

No, in my opinion. The few places that do serve it - there's a small Vietnamese restaurant on Del Ray Ave and another on Cordell - tone it down for Westerners. When you ask for herbs and Sriracha they look at you as if you were nuts. Pho without Sriracha? Case rests...The other dreadful place that does this is that Vietnamese place (called Nam, I think) opposite the Uptown Cinema on Conn Ave NW which claims to serve Pho, though only at lunch. For which we should be grateful.

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So I asked my vietnamese IT guy, who eats Pho at least 3-4 times a week, where the best places in the area are.

After we got past the discussion of his mom's kitchen, and he thought about it for a bit, here is what he had to say:

"Right now, the best is at Pho 75 on Rte. 50 in Annandale. Pho Sa Te in Springfield is also ok, as is Pho Hot, but not as good as 75.

1 year ago Pho 75 Roslyn and Pho Hot were tops. 2 year ago, it was Pho Golden Cow and Pho 50 (both on 50). 5 Years ago it was Pho Hoa."

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So I asked my vietnamese IT guy, who eats Pho at least 3-4 times a week, where the best places in the area are.

After we got past the discussion of his mom's kitchen, and he thought about it for a bit, here is what he had to say:

"Right now, the best is at Pho 75 on Rte. 50 in Annandale. Pho Sa Te in Springfield is also ok, as is Pho Hot, but not as good as 75.

That place really in Springfield? I did a Google search and one by that name is in Falls Church.

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I had a pretty crummy bowl of Pho at Pho Saigon, which sits prominently near an entrance to Eden Center on Wilson Blvd, and has a Grand Opening sign up (they've actually been open about two months). To put it in perspective: When I list my weekly highlights next Monday, this restaurant's entry will be the iced coffee with condensed milk, not the pho.

On the other hand, Pho 88 in Beltsville is absolutely fantastic. Awhile back, I thought Pho 75, Pho 50, and Pho Tay Ho were about the best around, but from my recent experiences, both Pho 88 and Pho Hot in Annandale are better still - these two rule the roost, or at least they rule MY roost. I'd be curious to hear opinions from people who have tried both (note that the very ordinary Pho 88 in Falls Church is unrelated to the one in Beltsville).

Cheers,

Rocks.

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I had a pretty crummy bowl of Pho at Pho Saigon, which sits prominently near an entrance to Eden Center on Wilson Blvd, and has a Grand Opening sign up (they've actually been open about two months). To put it in perspective: When I list my weekly highlights next Monday, this restaurant's entry will be the iced coffee with condensed milk, not the pho.

Viet Royale's bowl isn't bad. Pho Xe Lua is a good experience; a decent bowl, and it's where the Postal workers have lunch and a table of old men sit in back, drinking tea and smoking, and play Go and "Xiangqi" (Chinese chess, but they probably call it something else), slamming the pieces on the table and laughing.

I prefer Pho 75 near the Court House (a little better than Rockville.) The thing about Eden Center for me is that there's so much interesting Vietnamese food going on that I rarely go for soup. I like walking into that deli (Song Que?), waiting in line and watching what everybody else is ordering, and just kind of pointing at stuff. Or getting a table at Huong Que.

Also, and I could be imagining this, but I'm pretty sure people are laying bets as to whether I'm Chinese or Korean. Because clearly I am too fat to be Vietnamese.

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If I was having surgery, and was required to be on a clear-liquid diet the day before, I'd cheat and have Pho broth and red Burgundy. Okay so it's not clear but it's clear enough, and it beats the living snot out of a bouillon cube and a glass of Hi-C.

You might need to cheat with white wine instead of red if you were doing clear liquids for a colonoscopy--no red foods or red food colors allowed.

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Ah, I've never enjoyed Pho more than I enjoyed it last night at 10:17 PM. Pho 75 serves takeout for 50-cents extra, and a tub of plain broth (no meat, no noodles, no condiments) is only $2.50. The broth last night was awesome. Paired with a red Burgundy it was even better.

If I was having surgery, and was required to be on a clear-liquid diet the day before, I'd cheat and have Pho broth and red Burgundy. Okay so it's not clear but it's clear enough, and it beats the living snot out of a bouillon cube and a glass of Hi-C.

Cheers,

Rocks.

Sounds awesome! A good Beaune 1er Cru and Pho sounds heavenly!

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Walking back from the new Pret in DC today, I noticed that the Jack's on 19th St (between L and K, just up from Java Green) is now serving Pho. I popped in to see how much they charge for it, expecting an inflated DC price. And that is what it is...$7.99 for a small and $8.99 for a large. I did see a waiter walk by with a tray full, and it looked and smelled quite good. Definitely better than the dishwater sold at Asia Bistro, but that wouldn't be hard to do. I asked the table if they had eaten it here before, and they said yes, it was good, and yes, it is better than Asia Bistro.

So who around here wants to be the guinea pig? :P Just thought I'd mention it in case someone is downtown and can get here before I have a chance to give it a whirl.

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Walking back from the new Pret in DC today, I noticed that the Jack's on 19th St (between L and K, just up from Java Green) is now serving Pho. I popped in to see how much they charge for it, expecting an inflated DC price. And that is what it is...$7.99 for a small and $8.99 for a large. I did see a waiter walk by with a tray full, and it looked and smelled quite good. Definitely better than the dishwater sold at Asia Bistro, but that wouldn't be hard to do. I asked the table if they had eaten it here before, and they said yes, it was good, and yes, it is better than Asia Bistro.

So who around here wants to be the guinea pig? :P Just thought I'd mention it in case someone is downtown and can get here before I have a chance to give it a whirl.

Today's not going to happen, but having pho near the office, esp. if it's edible, will be something I'm interested in. I hope someone can report soon.

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Are meatballs usually made in-house or just purchased frozen at most pho places? I always thought they just buy them from the grocery store (but since I don't order meatballs, I have no clue).

My guess is purchased as they look exactly the same at each place that I have had them.

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Walking back from the new Pret in DC today, I noticed that the Jack's on 19th St (between L and K, just up from Java Green) is now serving Pho. I popped in to see how much they charge for it, expecting an inflated DC price. And that is what it is...$7.99 for a small and $8.99 for a large. I did see a waiter walk by with a tray full, and it looked and smelled quite good. Definitely better than the dishwater sold at Asia Bistro, but that wouldn't be hard to do. I asked the table if they had eaten it here before, and they said yes, it was good, and yes, it is better than Asia Bistro.

So who around here wants to be the guinea pig? :rolleyes: Just thought I'd mention it in case someone is downtown and can get here before I have a chance to give it a whirl.

This was not very good. It was extremely sugary in flavor and had a weird slippery mouthfeel afterward. It was interesting because it had tripe, flank and meatball in it. But yech. I walked out feeling like I smelled funky.
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Yesterday I hit Pho 75 on 355 in Rockville for lunch, thus completing my head-to-head taste test of Pho Nam on Shady Grove Road vs. Pho 75. While Pho Nam was not bad at all, the flavor of the pho at Pho 75 is more refined; "smoother" tasting, if you will. The various flavors seem to meld better with each other, as if it's been simmering all day vs. just a couple of hours. Service was quicker, too.

My comparison test also revealed that the unpleasant reaction I experienced soon after my last few visits to Pho Nam must be due to something in their recipe, and not some kind of allergy to pho itself. It almost felt like my blood pressure was being raised; sort of like hot flashes. I would not describe it as distressful, but it was quite unpleasant and lasted for at least an hour or two after eating at Pho Nam. Thankfully, I did not have the same reaction after eating at Pho 75. Does this happen to anyone else after eating pho? It's a very strange feeling...

One last thing - I ordered the Vietnamese coffee at Pho 75, and was utterly perplexed by the presentation: the tall glass filled with ice with a spoon in it and the small drip coffee maker placed on top of the coffee mug, slowly dripping the coffee onto the off-white sugary/syrupy glob at the bottom of the mug. I ended up dumping the whole thing into the glass with ice. I was able to stir it after letting some of the ice melt and it was tasty, but I ended up making a terrible mess. So I'll look like less of an abject fool next time, can anyone enlighten me as to the correct way to assemble this beverage?

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Yesterday I hit Pho 75 on 355 in Rockville for lunch, thus completing my head-to-head taste test of Pho Nam on Shady Grove Road vs. Pho 75. While Pho Nam was not bad at all, the flavor of the pho at Pho 75 is more refined; "smoother" tasting, if you will. The various flavors seem to meld better with each other, as if it's been simmering all day vs. just a couple of hours. Service was quicker, too.

My comparison test also revealed that the unpleasant reaction I experienced soon after my last few visits to Pho Nam must be due to something in their recipe, and not some kind of allergy to pho itself. It almost felt like my blood pressure was being raised; sort of like hot flashes. I would not describe it as distressful, but it was quite unpleasant and lasted for at least an hour or two after eating at Pho Nam. Thankfully, I did not have the same reaction after eating at Pho 75. Does this happen to anyone else after eating pho? It's a very strange feeling...

One last thing - I ordered the Vietnamese coffee at Pho 75, and was utterly perplexed by the presentation: the tall glass filled with ice with a spoon in it and the small drip coffee maker placed on top of the coffee mug, slowly dripping the coffee onto the off-white sugary/syrupy glob at the bottom of the mug. I ended up dumping the whole thing into the glass with ice. I was able to stir it after letting some of the ice melt and it was tasty, but I ended up making a terrible mess. So I'll look like less of an abject fool next time, can anyone enlighten me as to the correct way to assemble this beverage?

I do not recall having your reaction to pho at Pho Nam. I generally don't care for their broth though because it tastes "sweet". Not sugar sweet, or sweet as in having simmered beef/pork/chicken bones for a long time - but artificially "sweet".

Vietnamese ice coffee - you stir the condensed milk (sugary glob at bottom) in the coffee and pour it over the ice in the tall glass. You can stir again if you wish. I usually get the "hot" coffee. They just give me an empty glass and a pot of hot water with the coffee. I stir the condensed milk/coffee and pour it into the empty glass and add more of the hot water to the glass to the desired consistency.

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I was half-joking when I said here that ramen is displacing pho - and maybe even cupcakes.

However, I have an observation and a question that I've never before seen a restaurant writer mention, along with a conclusion and a revelation:

Observation: The vermicelli in the best pho house in the DC area is worse than the vermicelli in the worst spaghetti house in the DC area. It is overcooked into mush 100% of the time, and they aren't good noodles to begin with.

Question: If the broth is so special, so long-cooked with beef bones, then why is it so important to get fatty meats with it? The meats served with DC-area pho are among the worst quality of any non-ground beef product you can find at any restaurant in the DC area. The reason to add these frozen, terribly fatty meats (soft tendon, brisket that's 75% fat, etc.) are to add fat to the broth, and the only reason to add fat to the broth is if the broth is made primarily from starter mix and isn't sufficiently fatty to begin with.

Conclusion: Pho, taken as a whole, gets too much of a free pass. You can argue that a synergy (and even some olfactory nuance) is reached with the star anise, basil, a judicious application of sauces, etc., but other than appealing aromas, this is pretty low-quality stuff we're talking about here at the majority of pho houses.

Revelation: I had dinner at Pho Hot tonight, and the first two things I do when prepping my pho are: 1) insert sprouts and as much basil as possible 2) flip the noodles on top so the sprouts are trapped under them and cook, and the noodles stop cooking because they're now on top (although they're already cooked into mush to begin with). Tonight, however, I performed 1) and 2), but held off on the basil until after I sauced it up, picking the basil and adding it on the very top as the last thing. Cooking it along with the noodles was killing its scent. Why I didn't realize this before is beyond me (robotic habit, I guess), but this is what you want to do to keep the basil relevant.

Am I a heretic? If so, then what am I missing? I've had pho probably 100 times in my life (well, it is fast, cheap, and tasty, and my parents loved it), and I don't think I'm missing much. Don't get me started on the nasty "meat"balls and MSG and often-dirty condiments (if you think the condiments aren't dirty, bring them home and try soaking them in a bowl of water sometime - you'll be appalled). The plum sauce, if carelessly squirted, can produce a distressing sound.

Cheers,

Rocks

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I eat a fair amount of Pho because it is so wide spread in DC, but there is substance to your observations. All Pho I have had loses in comparison to Chinese noodle soups with house made noodles and house roasted meat. In the last couple of weeks I have had noodle soup at Lotus Garden in Vienna a few times and the quality of hand pulled noodles really grows on you.

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I was half-joking when I said here that ramen is displacing pho - and maybe even cupcakes.

However, I have an observation and a question that I've never before seen a restaurant writer mention, along with a conclusion and a revelation:

Observation: The vermicelli in the best pho house in the DC area is worse than the vermicelli in the worst spaghetti house in the DC area. It is overcooked into mush 100% of the time, and they aren't good noodles to begin with.

Question: If the broth is so special, so long-cooked with beef bones, then why is it so important to get fatty meats with it? The meats served with DC-area pho are among the worst quality of any non-ground beef product you can find at any restaurant in the DC area. The reason to add these frozen, terribly fatty meats (soft tendon, brisket that's 75% fat, etc.) are to add fat to the broth, and the only reason to add fat to the broth is if the broth is made primarily from starter mix and isn't sufficiently fatty to begin with.

Conclusion: Pho, taken as a whole, gets too much of a free pass. You can argue that a synergy (and even some olfactory nuance) is reached with the star anise, basil, a judicious application of sauces, etc., but other than appealing aromas, this is pretty low-quality stuff we're talking about here at the majority of pho houses.

Revelation: I had dinner at Pho Hot tonight, and the first two things I do when prepping my pho are: 1) insert sprouts and as much basil as possible 2) flip the noodles on top so the sprouts are trapped under them and cook, and the noodles stop cooking because they're now on top (although they're already cooked into mush to begin with). Tonight, however, I performed 1) and 2), but held off on the basil until after I sauced it up, picking the basil and adding it on the very top as the last thing. Cooking it along with the noodles was killing its scent. Why I didn't realize this before is beyond me (robotic habit, I guess), but this is what you want to do to keep the basil relevant.

Am I a heretic? If so, then what am I missing? I've had pho probably 100 times in my life (well, it is fast, cheap, and tasty, and my parents loved it), and I don't think I'm missing much. Don't get me started on the nasty "meat"balls and MSG and often-dirty condiments (if you think the condiments aren't dirty, bring them home and try soaking them in a bowl of water sometime - you'll be appalled). The plum sauce, if carelessly squirted, can produce a distressing sound.

Cheers,

Rocks

Oh my. This is a lesson in Phomanship. Now I like Pho....but these are terrific observations, and one's I'll have to take into account and consider. I usually go for pho ga or chicken soup for exactly the reasons you suggest about the meats. Additionally I've had some wonderful thai chicken soups with very superior noodles, as referenced above, a delectable broth, and different flavorings. Unfortunately I've had that at more than one place and I can't recall which ones were particularly good and better than others.

But I must admit these observations are right on target.

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Am I a heretic? If so, then what am I missing?

The sketchy cuts of meat are more for texture than flavor, as are the sprouts. But Pho is Northern Virginia's cheesesteak. You really shouldn't try to over-analyze a cheesesteak. You'd probably just end up hating cheesesteaks.

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