Ravi Kabob I and II, Pakistani in Arlington - Springfield Location is Now Karahi Kabob House

[Smita Nordwall]

If you think they are racist toward white men... try being a South Asian woman sporting short hair and shorts. That really gets them going. I have had them pretend they don't understand Hindi or even Urdu.

[DonRocks]

If you think they are racist toward white men... try being a South Asian woman sporting short hair and shorts. That really gets them going. I have had them pretend they don't understand Hindi or even Urdu.

Honestly, I'm surprised to hear this - I assumed their (perceived) discrimination would be mainly towards people like me.

I've also found this on Yelp which sounds so much like what often happens to me there:

Racist?

The food isn't bad, but it's not worth the treatment I've received at Ravi Kabob the 5 times I've been there.

The first two were OK. After the third I started to notice that the gentlemen behind the counter would only turn to me to take my order after all of the individuals speaking the language of the owners (Urdu?). I wrote this off as me being sensitive... at first. My girlfriend had the same problem, and the next time I went I also noticed they were very rude to a Spanish-speaking customer.

I still decided to give them another try as the food isn't bad. This time we were ignored while the owner counted a stack of money for about 10 minutes. I was about to leave and he finally took my order--just a Lhassi drink this time--and gave us something that was not sweetened and not what I ordered (this was at the Ravi Kabob II across the street).

Angry, I didn't go back until several months later where I figured I had exaggerated this treatment in my memory... nope. I ordered the same thing I usually order and was charged several dollars more for it, negating the price convenience of the place.

Is it possible I'm mistaken? Maybe, but 5 times... I won't be going back.

If you are Pakistani (or speak Urdu) try it out. The food is good--reminds me of my Pakistani friend's mom's cooking. Otherwise...

This also on Yelp (from a four-star review):

I've got pretty much the same comments as everyone else... poor parking, poor seating, and slightly dirty. I often find the staff to be aloof, but rarely outright rude. Being a white male, I believe I've experienced some slight reverse discrimination here, in that I'll tend to be served after brown skinned individuals regardless of the order of arrival. To be fair, they could have called their orders in ahead. And regardless, a little slight reverse discrimination does a white boy good... but I digress.

Also on Yelp:

The worst service ever !!!!! They may be RACIST.

I took some friends because I know the food is ok but I had to wait 10 minutes with no line for the owner to ask me if he can do something for me. He took my order with an arrogant tone.

I went there once before and they served the chick peas in a cup but this time the chicken, the rice and the chick peas were mixed on the same plate. When it was ready they left my food laying on the counter without telling me it was ready then I ask if it was ready and the owner responded with an aggressive tone "yeah yeah it's ready".

Usually there are only Indians in this restaurant, maybe they don't appreciate that a white man goes there.

They may be RACIST.

I WILL NEVER EVER GO BACK THERE !!!!!!

And then this on Google+ written by a gentleman of color:

Some of the people who work there are RACIST towards black people. I stopped by for lunch, because my friend loves their kabobs. The 1st of the two stores was crowded so we went to the 2nd location. My friend (who is white) ordered food and his change was placed in his hand. I ordered food and my change was placed on the counter for me to pick up. First the cash. Then the change. I'm never going back and I hope they go out of business.

This on zabihah.com written by someone who was half-Chinese:

I went to this kabob place and i bought your recommended favorite chicken boneless kabob. I was very dissappointed on my visit. The place was packed with people, there were no space for me to move around to pay for my order, ventilation is very poor (my shirt smelled like curry spices), and no customer service at all. Speaking of friendliness i don't think so. Bec. of packed people eating on the place i had to order mine to go. After waitng about 40mins. to have my order finished this guy i recognized him (the one pictured on his business card) when i asked the guy next to him for my order he said its ready and the to go box had my name written on it. But this guy ravi (owner) said no this order belongs to another and gave to a middle eastern guy and they started speaking their language and ignored me then told me mine is coming up about another 15mins. thats 55mins. waiting time. You see i am half american and half chinese i feel discriminated and had to leave. Maybe he does a good job serving his country men and ignore people like me who can't speak his language. Ravi lost a very good customer. Thanks for the space.

I find it all very troubling. I want to add that I'm very well aware of the gravity of these insinuations, and would never mention something like this unless I was 90%+ sure something was going on.

I love the food here and hope they can work on a more welcoming policy towards customers of all races. I understand the desire to create a welcoming refuge for Pakistani-Americans, but not at the expense of exclusion.

[Kanishka]

If you think they are racist toward white men... try being a South Asian woman sporting short hair and shorts. That really gets them going. I have had them pretend they don't understand Hindi or even Urdu.

My parents became visibly upset -- and ultimately refused to believe me -- when I told them the prevailing practice in Calcutta was now to use the "tui" form with friends and acquaintances (for the French speakers out there, this is a level lower than "tu" -- Sanskrit based languages have three levels of second person pronouns). They last lived in India in 1972; I last lived there in 2010. Paradoxically, moving to the West made my parents more culturally conservative, at least in relation to "home."

So somehow this does not surprise me in the least. Makes me mad, sure. Furious even. But it doesn't surprise me.

[Bart]

It's not racism when they apparently treat everyone but their own kind of like shit. A better description is probably assholes.

Assholes yes, but also racist assholes. Or maybe bigoted assholes.

I'm shocked that anyone who got this treatment would go to this place a second time. If this were a white guy doing the same thing to black people the outcry would be huge, and rightly so, but since it's a minority "sticking it to the man" many people seem to be taking it in stride. And I'm not some right winger on constant lookout for abuse of the White Male by society (I refuse to ever eat in a Chick Fill A because of their anti gay stance), but I must say that I'm a little surprised by the lack of outrage over this. Not one single person or post has provided an even opposing view of this place.

[thetrain]

If you think they are racist toward white men... try being a South Asian woman sporting short hair and shorts. That really gets them going. I have had them pretend they don't understand Hindi or even Urdu.

Interesting, as a non-ethnic looking young white woman I haven't had much of a problem, and even what I'd consider preferential treatment once. They sure are specific with their prejudices.

Not one single person or post has provided an even opposing view of this place.

One person has.

[sandynva]

Assholes yes, but also racist assholes. Or maybe bigoted assholes.

I'm shocked that anyone who got this treatment would go to this place a second time. If this were a white guy doing the same thing to black people the outcry would be huge, and rightly so, but since it's a minority "sticking it to the man" many people seem to be taking it in stride. And I'm not some right winger on constant lookout for abuse of the White Male by society (I refuse to ever eat in a Chick Fill A because of their anti gay stance), but I must say that I'm a little surprised by the lack of outrage over this. Not one single person or post has provided an even opposing view of this place.

Something about this whole conversation is making me slightly uncomfortable, and i don't think it's just because i'm south asian. Part of it is that my response to the initial post about the tweet was a bemused "meh"/"welcome to my world". I've never had anyone outright refuse to serve me, but i definitely have gotten a low-level version of this at many places. somehow i'm forgotten while ordering, or the last to order, or ignored in line while others are not until i'm the only one there. not the majority of places, for sure, but enough that i just take it in stride. i'm not saying this conduct is ever justified, because it's not. But i think those who are outraged by it are lucky enough to have daily existences where this happens so rarely they get upset when it does. (and it's not always about race, being a woman in many wine stores or trying to get a sommelier to come over is often particularly annoying.)

and, perhaps i'm oversensitized by being in college at the height of political correctness, but for me, calling someone bigoted or racist is an extremely serious charge, one that should never be made lightly. so, speaking hypothetically,(i've never been to ravi kabob) if they are mean to everyone who's not of their group, i'm not sure that i feel comfortable calling them racist. people are often nicer to those of their kind--i'm not going to name names, because i actually like some of these places, but consider the treatment of europeans in certain local french restaurants, the way certain italian stores deal with italian or italian american customers vs. others, the way the staff at certain ethnic stores respond to people of their own ethnicity vs. another. Or even how you get treated if you go to various fancy food stores in the area dressed very casually. is this treatment right? of course not. is it enough to brand you with what, in our current society, is one of the worst things you can say about a person? I'm not sure.

[jasonc]

I think given the constitutional jurisprudence on this very issue, it's fair that Ravi's behavior should attract strict scrutiny.

[Nick Freshman]

But i think those who are outraged by it are lucky enough to have daily existences where this happens so rarely they get upset when it does.

That was my first reaction. I felt a collective eye rolling from minorities who have endured racism their entire life--like, from cops. But then again, what would I know about that? I'm the picture in the dictionary next to "white male."

I've been going to Ravi for 10 years, and I always have found the service brusque but efficient. I always feel like I am on the outside looking in, but that's because I am not Pakistani or friends with anyone who works there. That doesn't make me feel uncomfortable or that I am being treated poorly, but maybe I am genuinely clueless. It would never occur to me that they are racist towards me, it just occured to me that they were dicks and were sometimes more interested in serving people they knew. Is that the same thing? Given my day to day existence as a white male in Arlington I honestly am not sure if I would recognize if I was being discriminated against, but the bigger question is, would I give a shit?

Despite what the far right wants me to believe, I don't think I've got it rough in the least. My experience working with underpriveleged and minority youth as well as general life experience only confirms that. I have it good, so who cares if some guy wants to mumble something in Urdu under his breath and make me wait a couple minutes for my order? I'm not sure it's worth caring about. The problems of racism in this country seem so much bigger to me--like the systemic problems in our criminal justice and education systems--that this seems trivial.

Am I missing the point? Maybe. Again, I don't doubt I have a degree of ignorance on this topic. Aside from very direct and brutal racism on the basketball court, I don't think I have ever been seriously discriminated against. And even then I felt like, fuck it, I have it good, and I can play, so it doesn't really matter. If I was discriminated against, I just took it as someone being an asshole. Their beliefs about me and my race were irrelevant.

I don't plan to stop going to Ravi, at least not based on this thread. Am I supposed to? And then should I be wondering what's taking so long with my Pad Thai at Nam Viet, or my Pupusas at El Charrito? Seriously?

[Michael Landrum]

"By the simple exercise of our will we can exert a power for good practically unbounded.

"...[T]he earth is redeemed by the ideal--doing good, carrying the torch of piety and progress, bringing civilization to a people whose skin is a different color..."

--Kurtz: Musician, Philosopher, Painter, Adventurer and Explorer

The International Society for the Suppression of Savage Customs

[Michael Landrum]

Actually, my first experience at Ravi was thus:

I quietly, if uncomfortably, waited in line in the cramped space with one person (younger) taking orders and another (older) next to him closing out the drawer and preparing the change drawer for the next shift and generally ignoring all the loudly sighing and demonstratively exasperated people around me.

I explained to the younger gentleman that I was ordering food to go for later that night for when my girlfriend finished her shift, but that I was tired and starving after a long day and needed to order something for "here" in the meantime in order to stay awake and make it to later. I also asked if it was easier for them if I put the "to go" order in later to keep the two orders separate or to order and pay for everything right then. He said to order everything now and they would time it themselves.

I asked about the seasoning on some of the grilled items, whether it was possible to get a vegetable instead of salad, and about the special stew of the day...ingredients, spiciness, seasoning, specialty of which region, occasions on which it was typically served, etc.

At this point the older gentleman stopped his work, answered my questions with patience, enthusiasm and detail, took my order--lamb for "here", bone-in chicken and kubideh (or whatever it is called there) "to go"--and put it in line with the other orders (and, jumping ahead, which, it was, and can now be, noted, were served in the order in which they were ordered).

I left a $5 tip on the $35 order and sat at the last unoccupied table.

I then observed the older gentleman prepare several small dishes and call over a busboy to serve them to me--the stew about which I inquired but did not order, a small salad, and some spinach--while he brought me over a cup of water (I typically only drink vodka or personally collected rainwater). As soon as my lamb was served, I saw him personally fire the "to go" items which he boxed just as I was finishing my lamb.

Another $5 bill for the busboy when he brought me my to go order.

And each subsequent visit, it has been the same every time, whether alone or with a group, and whether the older gentleman is there or not.

Now, keep in mind, my idea of good service is what you get at the various Ray's (or at least if things go right, and for the most part).

YMMV, as the kids say.

Twerkin' it!

--Michael Landrum

[Nick Freshman]

I don't plan to stop going to Ravi, at least not based on this thread. Am I supposed to? And then should I be wondering what's taking so long with my Pad Thai at Nam Viet, or my Pupusas at El Charrito? Seriously?

I can't believe I just wrote 'Pad Thai at Nam Viet.' In this thread of all threads. The irony is too thick. I meant to write Thai Square. Jeez. There goes what little credibility I might have had...

[Smita Nordwall]

Interesting, as a non-ethnic looking young white woman I haven't had much of a problem, and even what I'd consider preferential treatment once. They sure are specific with their prejudices.

One person has.

Is preferential racism, still racism? South Asian men favor light skinned women... I happen to be "dark" by their standards (gloriously golden by white American ones )) I was not at all surprised by their actions. As Kanishka said, people do tend to become more culturally conservative away from home. It is annoying. I just put on my pissed-off Mom (helps when you have grey hair) face. That gets them in line pretty fast.

[DonRocks]

Schmaltzy as it sounds, I want everyone to live in peace and harmony, to love their fellow man, and to exert kindness in every situation.

With this, the world is a much better place.

[Smita Nordwall]

Schmaltzy as it sounds, I want everyone to live in peace and harmony, to love their fellow man, and to exert kindness in every situation.

With this, the world is a much better place.

Share my dreams, Don. Maybe they'll come true some day.

[porcupine]

Schmaltzy as it sounds, I want everyone to live in peace and harmony, to love their fellow man, and to exert kindness in every situation.

With this, the world is a much better place.

[monavano]

Schmaltzy as it sounds, I want everyone to live in peace and harmony, to love their fellow man, and to exert kindness in every situation.

With this, the world is a much better place.

Amen brother.

[Simul Parikh]

I'm a Indian male, and have been treated terribly compared to the other people that are able to order Urdu and/or seem to know the people there. The wait for pre-made (non-kabob, non-karahi) food can be intolerable. Yet, it tastes so good. So, I keep going back. Hopefully they read DR.

-S

[monavano]

I'm a Indian male, and have been treated terribly compared to the other people that are able to order Urdu and/or seem to know the people there. The wait for pre-made (non-kabob, non-karahi) food can be intolerable. Yet, it tastes so good. So, I keep going back. Hopefully they read DR.

-S

Welcome to DR!

[abby7ophelia]

Not to dismiss your experiences but I’m not sure this is just about race. Service at Ravi I is surly but I’m pretty sure this surliness is directed at everyone. I do think they tend to be much friendlier to regulars and to people that walk in knowing exactly what they want/ how to order. I’m a white woman in my late 20’s and I would go to Ravi I and II often when I lived about a five minute walk from the two places (moved 8 months ago). I would bring my reusable clamshell container because I started to feel bad about all of the Styrofoam I was throwing away. After a while, they started to recognize me with my reusable container and were pretty friendly when I showed up. If you want friendlier service and you're not planning to be a regular, go to Ravi II.

[wristband]

I agree with the above characterization: "brusque but efficient." That has been my experience over the years. Cramped space, prices very reasonable, food good, cleanliness questionable, gents behind the counter have all the dash, flair & charm of a car wash employee.

Does that chilliness dissuade me from returning? Nope. But this conversation gives me great pause about doing so.

[Ericandblueboy]

What differences exist, foodwise, between I & II? Based on these posts, I can't imagine why I'd ever go to I, since II is just across the street from I.

[dcs]

Does that chilliness dissuade me from returning? Nope. But this conversation gives me great pause about doing so.

Actually, parking most dissuades me from going there more often.

[SeanMike]

Actually, there's no response to Eric's query - what is the difference between I and II?

I'm about to hit my two year anniversary living behind Ravi Kabob and I've never eaten there. Now that I've had Kabob Palace in Crystal City my brother and I are debating getting similar things from both places and comparing them. I will say, however, that Ravi Kabob is by far the best landmark I've ever lived near - I easily have a 90-95%+ success rate telling cab and Uber drivers "I live behind Ravi Kabob" no matter their ethnicity.

The little Latino spot next to Ravi Kabob is gone (though its sign is still there) and is now called "Ravi Chaktadra" (I hope the spelling is right, I'm going off memory). The door says "Carry Out Express". I haven't had time to check it out but I assume that it's also part of the Ravi chain?

[DonRocks]

I stopped into Ravi Kabob at around 10 PM on a recent evening, and there was still pretty much of a full house, and a line of 2-3 people in front of me.

I ordered, to go, two orders of Chicken Curry ($9.50), a blue-chip dish here that's always good, using dark-meat chicken in a reddish-brown curry sauce, served with rice and thick lentils, optional salad, and an oval of Ravi's wonderful bread.

This meal did not disappoint, and lasted us for nearly two days. Ravi Kabob over the years has not lost a beat, and if I recall, I've never had a bad meal here. Yes, the gentleman at the cash register is still as hostile as ever (he didn't smile, or say thank you, or acknowledge me in any way when I left a 10% tip), but in no way does that detract from the quality of the food.

I also stopped into Ravi Chatkhara, and was surprised to see an empty restaurant, with menus that look more like something you'd find at a Pakistani-owned sub shop more than anything revelatory. That said, I've still never tried it, and I have a fair amount of confidence in their cooking skills at this institution.

[SeanMike]

I've lived behind Ravi for over 2 years now, and I swear it's been busier since Ramadan this year then any other time I've ever seen it. Obviously, this is completely anecdotal, but it's *insane* over there.

[Sundae in the Park]

Grabbed a couple orders of samosas with chickpeas to go on the way out of town, and they hold up really well in the fridge even a few days later! A godsend when you are stuck in plain-food country and need a bit of heat for a midnight snack. I felt a bit sheepish coming in midday during Ramadan, but they weren't any more gruff or less efficient than I remember in the past.

[TheGut]

Stopped in at Ravi and had some choley for dinner.