"Troilus and Cressida" (1602) by William Shakespeare (1564-1616) - A Critical Discussion

[DonRocks]

"Troilus and Cressida" (1602) by William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

Prologue

My good friend, DIShGo and I will be discussing the relative merits of "Troilus and Cressida," generally classified as one of Shakespeare's "problem plays," act-by-act, scene-by-scene, in the hopes that you'll follow along with us, and joining the discussion whenever you can. Neither of us are Shakespearean scholars; just enthusiasts, so your contributions and your expertise would be most welcome, even if they're simple request for clarifications - we're just going to be winging this whole thing as we go. We're intelligent readers, yes, but Shakespeare experts we're absolutely not: please come join us as we toil through this difficult play. Troilus and Cressida starts off with an armed Chorus - a "prologue" (literally, a single soldier dressed in armor) - coming onto the stage in soliloquy, and speaking directly to the audience, not only to give some premise as to where the play begins, but also to issue the standard "Shakespearean hedge" about the play being only to the best of their abilities, and nearly apologizing that it isn't perfect.

• Chorus. In Troy, there lies the scene. From isles of Greece 
  The princes orgulous, their high blood chafed, 
  Have to the port of Athens sent their ships, 
  Fraught with the ministers and instruments 
  Of cruel war: sixty and nine, that wore 5
  Their crownets regal, from the Athenian bay 
  Put forth toward Phrygia; and their vow is made 
  To ransack Troy, within whose strong immures 
  The ravish'd Helen, Menelaus' queen, 
  With wanton Paris sleeps; and that's the quarrel. 10
  To Tenedos they come; 
  And the deep-drawing barks do there disgorge 
  Their warlike fraughtage: now on Dardan plains 
  The fresh and yet unbruised Greeks do pitch 
  Their brave pavilions: Priam's six-gated city, 15
  Dardan, and Tymbria, Helias, Chetas, Troien, 
  And Antenorides, with massy staples 
  And corresponsive and fulfilling bolts, 
  Sperr up the sons of Troy. 
  Now expectation, tickling skittish spirits, 20
  On one and other side, Trojan and Greek, 
  Sets all on hazard: and hither am I come 
  A prologue arm'd, but not in confidence 
  Of author's pen or actor's voice, but suited 
  In like conditions as our argument, 25
  To tell you, fair beholders, that our play 
  Leaps o'er the vaunt and firstlings of those broils, 
  Beginning in the middle, starting thence away 
  To what may be digested in a play. 
  Like or find fault; do as your pleasures are: 30
  Now good or bad, 'tis but the chance of war.

[DonRocks]

On 1/13/2014 at 1:58 AM, DonRocks said:

• The princes orgulous, their high blood chafed, 

  Have to the port of Athens sent their ships,

  Fraught with the ministers and instruments

  Of cruel war: sixty and nine

How do you not love a prologue that uses an adjective such as "orgulous," i.e., "of or pertaining to organs "˜at the high,'" followed by sixty and nine in the first five stanzas of the play?

This play is centered around Priam having stolen the lovely Helen (who is currently living on Troy) from the Greeks and her cuckholded husband Menelaus. The Greeks are justifiably pissed off and this whole war is to get "Helen Of Troy" back to where she belongs: to the Greeks and her rightful husband Menelaus.

It's great foreshadowing, right from the very beginning.

The characters, although they look daunting, are super-easy with a guide to refer back to: you have the Trojans, defending their homeland, and the Greeks, all warriors since they are, by definition, invading Troy (part of modern-day Turkey (* see map below)) to snatch back Helen from Paris and return her to her rightful Meneleaus. I have developed "tricks" to remember who the people are, so if anyone is having trouble, just chime in, and I'll explain the system I've developed for your particular problem (believe me, there are *many* problems memorizing characters in this problematic play). For example, do you remember the old TV commercial jingle, "A-JAX! Stronger Than Dirt!" Well, Ajax is indeed a very strong warrior in this play, but not only is he "stronger than dirt," he's also "dumber than dirt." There are all sorts of modern tricks I've developed to get these names and characteristics into your head, and I can help you - just ask! There cannot possibly be something such as a "stupid question here" - this is exceedingly difficult. I'm here to explain it, and make it easy and, yes, FUN, for everyone! Even though this is not one of Shakespeare's better plays, you'll be glad you know it, and it's a good launching point when you have two people who are actually trying to make this historical play FUN! Come along with us for the ride, and please chime in whenever you'd like!

Characters: Troilus and Cressida

From "The Utah Shakespeare Festival"

The Trojans

Priam: King of Troy, Priam is the father of fifty children, six of whom appear in this play. He like most of the warriors around him chooses to continue the war rather than have dissension within his royal family.

Hector: Son of King Priam and brother of Troilus, Paris, Deiphobus, Helenus, and Cassandra, Hector is the most valiant warrior among the Trojans. Dedicated to the war and his family, it is Hector, however, who first raises the idea of calling a truce, even though he quickly abandons the idea for honor's sake.

Troilus: The youngest son of King Priam and brother of Hector, Paris, Deiphobus, Helenus, and Cassandra, Troilus is a young sensualist who is beside himself in his infatuation for Cressida. He is a slave to an almost juvenile passion, and, although at times he recognizes his faults, he is never strong enough to act upon them"”sacrificing manliness and ignoring filial and public duty to an unworthy liaison with an unworthy woman. It is Troilus who, using the ideal of honor, talks Hector into continuing the war.

Paris: The son of King Priam and brother of Hector, Troilus, Deiphobus, Helenus, and Cassandra, Paris caused the war when he seduced and abducted Helen, the wife of the Greek leader, Menelaus. He is so obsessed with her beauty and charms that he refuses to end the war, even after years of slaughter.

Deiphobus: The son of King Priam and brother of Hector, Troilus, Paris, Helenus, and Cassandra, Deiphobus, although a noble son and warrior, appears only briefly in several scenes of this play.

Helenus: The son of King Priam and brother of Hector, Troilus, Paris, Deiphobus, and Cassandra, Helenus is a priest who appears only briefly in the play.

Margarelon: A bastard son of King Priam, Margarelon exposes the cowardice of Thersites.

Aeneas: A Trojan commander and friend of Troilus, Aeneas is described by Pandarus as "one of the flowers of Troy."

Antenor: Another Trojan commander, Antenor has a shrewd wit and sound judgement.

Calchas: A Trojan priest and father of Cressida, Calchas defected to the Greek side when the war began. He convinces the Greek leaders to trade a Trojan prisoner-of-war for his daughter, thus bringing Cressida to the Greek camp and separating her from Troilus.

Pandarus: Cressida's uncle, the prurient Pandarus is retired and now lives on the memories of a sensual life and helps others to enjoy their own illicit assignations. It is Pandarus who arranges the tryst of Troilus and Cressida. In the end he is bitter and diseased.

Alexander: A servant of Cressida.

Andromache: The wife of Hector, Andromache is stirred by frightening dreams and pleads with her husband to stay home from the battle, to no avail.

Cassandra: The daughter of King Priam and sister of Hector, Troilus, Paris, Deiphobus, and Helenus, Cassandra is a prophetess but is cursed with never being believed. Thus, when she prophesies that Troy will fall unless Helen is returned to the Greeks, her brothers and others simply scoff at her.

Cressida: Daughter of Calchus and neice of Pandars, Cressida is precocious in the art of dalliance and expert at whetting the sexual apetites of her lovers, including the Trojan Troilus and later the Grecian Diomedes. She swears her eternal love to Troilus but abandons all vows as soon as she is taken to the Greek camp. She is a highly sexed, fickle woman who is in love actually only with herself.

The Greeks

Agamemnon: Commander-in-chief of the Grecian forces and brother of Menelaus, Agamemnon is a dignified, generous, and chivalric leader.

Menelaus: Brother of Agamemnon and wronged husband of the faithless Helen, Menelaus is the Spartan king but, nonetheless, the butt of many jokes about his cuckoldry.

Achilles: A Grecian commander and one of the most famous of Grecian warriors, Achilles in this play is proud, arrogant, cowardly, and lazy. While his fellow commanders and princes take to the field, he keeps to his tent, pampering himself. His cowardly attack upon the unarmed Hector reveals him to be a contemptible and hot-blooded character.

Ajax: A Grecian champion, but "a beef-witted lord," Ajax is a loutish warrior"”vain, stupid, and surly. He exhibits great physical strength, but senseless vanity. Ulysses and others convince him that he is Achilles' superior and set him up in a one-on-one fight with Hector"”all to try and make Achilles jealous and spring to action.

Ulysses: Identified by many as the real hero of the play (if there is one), Ulysses is a Grecian commander and the most wise and chivalric character in the play. It is Ulysses who diagnoses the problem in the Greek camp as insubordination (especially concerning Achilles), and it is he who recognizes Cressida for what she is.

Nestor: A Grecian commander, Nestor is one of the oldest, wisest, courageous, and loyal among the Greeks.

Diomedes: A Grecian commander, Diomedes is sent to conduct Cressida from the Trojan to the Greek camp. He is quickly smitten by her sensuality, takes her as his lover, and obtains the love token Troilus gave to her. He and Troilus later meet in battle, with neither coming out entirely victorious.

Patroclus: A Grecian commander, Patroclus is a close friend and favorite of Achilles and stays in his tent with him, rather than going to battle.

Thersites: A scurrilous and comic officer in the Greek camp who makes it his vocation to rail against the leaders and such warriors as Achilles and Ajax, Thersites is convinced that he alone is clear-sighted. He is the most vicious type of political malcontent"”the cynic that can find no good in anyone. It is Thersites, however, who voices one of the most fundamental truths of the play when he insists that "all is war and lechery."

Myrmidons: Ruthless subjects of Achilles, the Myrmidons brutally kill the unarmed Hector, at Achilles' command.

Helen: Appearing in only one scene, nonetheless Helen is the cause of the war. Supposedly seduced and abducted by Paris, she seems to live willingly with him. Although beautiful, she, like Cressida, has an almost absurd obsession with sex.

(*) 

[porcupine]

Even though it's a so-called problem play, it was one of my favorites, and I wrote a paper on it... but that was close to 30 years ago.  The Shakespeare Theatre did an excellent production of it in the early '90s; I think it was during their first season at the Lansburgh.  Looking forward to reading your discussion.

[bookluvingbabe]

We saw an amazing production of it in Stratford in the early to mid 2000s.  I thought it was a lot more accessible than some of the other plays--A Winter's Tale, I'm looking at you--and was interested enough to track down other versions of their story.

[DIShGo]

The princes orgulous, their high blood chafed,

Have to the port of Athens sent their ships,

Fraught with the ministers and instruments

Of cruel war: sixty and nine

Of course this would be the part that stands out for you! Personally I'm drawn to the line about "tickling skittish spirits on one and other side." It's an interesting description of soldiers off to battle.

[DIShGo]

The descriptions of the characters in the play you posted are different than the ones in my book. Yours are more straightforward and descriptive, but they also take a more cynical approach to the motives of Helen and Cressida.

[DonRocks]

On 1/13/2014 at 11:30 AM, DIShGo said:

The descriptions of the characters in the play you posted are different than the ones in my book. Yours are more straightforward and descriptive, but they also take a more cynical approach to the motives of Helen and Cressida.

My book is The Oxford Shakespeare, edited by Kenneth Muir in 1982 (purchased for something like half a pound at a used bookstore in London in 2003), and is probably considered close to definitive - it goes to great lengths citing other editors' interpretations, right down to individual words: so much so that I decided to jettison reading the footnotes and word definitions along with the play because it makes me lose momentum.

But like yours, The Oxford edition does not present descriptions nearly as cynical as what I culled online from the Utah Shakespeare Festival, perhaps because it's giving away too much of the tale. But I do like the directness and strong opinion of Utah's descriptions - with Shakespeare in particular, I don't really care if I know what's going to happen before I read it; the beauty lies in the words themselves.

Jennifer, if you can explain "Exit pursued by a bear" in "A Winter's Tale," you're a better person than I am. I actually saw that once at the Folger, and they had a *huge*, fearsome, very realistic looking bear come onto the stage on its hind legs and pursue the screaming character to his death. It was a very well-done and terrifying interpretation of this mysterious, throwaway line.

[DonRocks]

Act I, Scene 1

Troy. Before Priam's palace.

[Enter TROILUS armed, and PANDARUS]

• Troilus. Call here my varlet; I'll unarm again:
  Why should I war without the walls of Troy,
  That find such cruel battle here within? 35
  
  Each Trojan that is master of his heart,
  Let him to field; Troilus, alas! hath none.

• Pandarus. Will this gear ne'er be mended?

• Troilus. The Greeks are strong and skilful to their strength,
  Fierce to their skill and to their fierceness valiant; 40
  
  But I am weaker than a woman's tear,
  Tamer than sleep, fonder than ignorance,
  Less valiant than the virgin in the night
  And skilless as unpractised infancy.

• Pandarus. Well, I have told you enough of this: for my part, 45
  
  I'll not meddle nor make no further. He that will
  have a cake out of the wheat must needs tarry the grinding.

• Troilus. Have I not tarried?

• Pandarus. Ay, the grinding; but you must tarry
  the bolting. 50

• Troilus. Have I not tarried?

• Pandarus. Ay, the bolting, but you must tarry the leavening.

• Troilus. Still have I tarried.

• Pandarus. Ay, to the leavening; but here's yet in the word
  'hereafter' the kneading, the making of the cake, the 55
  
  heating of the oven and the baking; nay, you must
  stay the cooling too, or you may chance to burn your lips.

• Troilus. Patience herself, what goddess e'er she be,
  Doth lesser blench at sufferance than I do.
  At Priam's royal table do I sit; 60
  
  And when fair Cressid comes into my thoughts,"”
  So, traitor! 'When she comes!' When is she thence?

• Pandarus. Well, she looked yesternight fairer than ever I saw
  her look, or any woman else.

• Troilus. I was about to tell thee:"”when my heart, 65
  
  As wedged with a sigh, would rive in twain,
  Lest Hector or my father should perceive me,
  I have, as when the sun doth light a storm,
  Buried this sigh in wrinkle of a smile:
  But sorrow, that is couch'd in seeming gladness, 70
  
  Is like that mirth fate turns to sudden sadness.

• Pandarus. An her hair were not somewhat darker than Helen's"”
  well, go to"”there were no more comparison between
  the women: but, for my part, she is my kinswoman; I
  would not, as they term it, praise her: but I would 75
  
  somebody had heard her talk yesterday, as I did. I
  will not dispraise your sister Cassandra's wit, but"”

• Troilus. O Pandarus! I tell thee, Pandarus,"”
  When I do tell thee, there my hopes lie drown'd,
  Reply not in how many fathoms deep 80
  
  They lie indrench'd. I tell thee I am mad
  In Cressid's love: thou answer'st 'she is fair;'
  Pour'st in the open ulcer of my heart
  Her eyes, her hair, her cheek, her gait, her voice,
  Handlest in thy discourse, O, that her hand, 85
  
  In whose comparison all whites are ink,
  Writing their own reproach, to whose soft seizure
  The cygnet's down is harsh and spirit of sense
  Hard as the palm of ploughman: this thou tell'st me,
  As true thou tell'st me, when I say I love her; 90
  
  But, saying thus, instead of oil and balm,
  Thou lay'st in every gash that love hath given me
  The knife that made it.

• Pandarus. I speak no more than truth.

• Troilus. Thou dost not speak so much. 95

• Pandarus. Faith, I'll not meddle in't. Let her be as she is:
  if she be fair, 'tis the better for her; an she be
  not, she has the mends in her own hands.

• Troilus. Good Pandarus, how now, Pandarus!

• Pandarus. I have had my labour for my travail; ill-thought on of 100
  
  her and ill-thought on of you; gone between and
  between, but small thanks for my labour.

• Troilus. What, art thou angry, Pandarus? what, with me?

• Pandarus. Because she's kin to me, therefore she's not so fair
  as Helen: an she were not kin to me, she would be as 105
  
  fair on Friday as Helen is on Sunday. But what care
  I? I care not an she were a black-a-moor; 'tis all one to me.

• Troilus. Say I she is not fair?

• Pandarus. I do not care whether you do or no. She's a fool to
  stay behind her father; let her to the Greeks; and so 110
  
  I'll tell her the next time I see her: for my part,
  I'll meddle nor make no more i' the matter.

• Troilus. Pandarus,"”

• Pandarus. Not I.

• Troilus. Sweet Pandarus,"” 115

• Pandarus. Pray you, speak no more to me: I will leave all as I
  found it, and there an end.

[Exit PANDARUS. An alarum]

• Troilus. Peace, you ungracious clamours! peace, rude sounds!
  Fools on both sides! Helen must needs be fair, 120
  
  When with your blood you daily paint her thus.
  I cannot fight upon this argument;
  It is too starved a subject for my sword.
  But Pandarus,"”O gods, how do you plague me!
  I cannot come to Cressid but by Pandar; 125
  
  And he's as tetchy to be woo'd to woo.
  As she is stubborn-chaste against all suit.
  Tell me, Apollo, for thy Daphne's love,
  What Cressid is, what Pandar, and what we?
  Her bed is India; there she lies, a pearl: 130
  
  Between our Ilium and where she resides,
  Let it be call'd the wild and wandering flood,
  Ourself the merchant, and this sailing Pandar
  Our doubtful hope, our convoy and our bark.

[Alarum. Enter AENEAS]

• Aeneas. How now, Prince Troilus! wherefore not afield?

• Troilus. Because not there: this woman's answer sorts,
  For womanish it is to be from thence.
  What news, AEneas, from the field to-day?

• Aeneas. That Paris is returned home and hurt. 140

• Troilus. By whom, AEneas?

• Aeneas. Troilus, by Menelaus.

• Troilus. Let Paris bleed; 'tis but a scar to scorn;
  Paris is gored with Menelaus' horn.

[Alarum]

• Aeneas. Hark, what good sport is out of town to-day!

• Troilus. Better at home, if 'would I might' were 'may.'
  But to the sport abroad: are you bound thither?

• Aeneas. In all swift haste.

• Troilus. Come, go we then together. 150

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

One of the most relevant characters in the play, for 21st-century English speakers, is Pandarus, whose very name is the origin of the verb "to pander" (or the noun "a pander" - a pimp). The rather "gentle" - some might say lily-livered - Troilus is lovesick over Pandarus' niece Cressida to the point where he no longer has the fire in his belly necessary to engage in war, and Pandarus literally "panders" to him in Act 1 Scene 1, talking up Cressida (you'll see later in the play, he does the exact same thing to Cressida, pandering to her while talking up Troilus - acting as a go-between, a matchmaker, a panderer).

At the end of the scene, Aeneas (a Trojan commander) appears to Troilus and informs him that his older brother, Paris, has been injured by Menelaus (don't forget, Paris has stolen Menelaus' wife, Helen, so Menelaus is pissed). Troilus, whose mind is only on love, registers little upset, as shown in this rhyming couplet:

Troilus. Let Paris bleed; 'tis but a scar to scorn;
Paris is gored with Menelaus' horn.

While I don't want to turn this into a primer of poetry terms, do note that this rhyming couplet is in iambic pentameter (10 syllables (5 iambic feet) per line, each foot having a heartbeat (da-DUM) rhythm). For those of you who are interested, I would urge you to become familiar with some basic poetry terms - start with meter, and click on what interests you (if you scroll down to Metric Variations, you'll see various types of "feet" explained, including this one, the "iamb.") I'll keep mentioning a little of this throughout the discussion, so by the end, you'll have acquired a basic understanding even if you're not inspired to research on your own.

It's actually pretty amazing to go to the previous post and read the top part of the dialog, noting all of the iambic pentameter in it. It gives you a good appreciation for what a genius Shakespeare really was - when you're reading the play, the dialogue is so natural that you don't even think about all the trouble he went through to do this. (In lines 33-37 (the first five lines of the scene, spoken by Troilus), all of them are in iambic pentameter: "cruel" is pronounced CRU-el and "field" is pronounced as one syllable.) Note also that to fit this rhythm, Shakespeare will often accent the second syllable of his characters (as in line 37: troi-LUS).

[DIShGo]

That is interesting about the iambic pentameter. I hadn't noticed and appreciate it now that you pointed it out.

Being a helpless romantic, I was taken with the lily-livered Troilus' description of Cressida, particularly the beauty of her hands. To go to such lengths to praise someone's hands!

[DonRocks]

Being a helpless romantic, I was taken with the lily-livered Troilus' description of Cressida, particularly the beauty of her hands. To go to such lengths to praise someone's hands! 

And not to state the obvious, but:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Her eyes, her hair, her cheek, her gait, her voice,

Handlest in thy discourse, O, that her hand, 85

In whose comparison all whites are ink,

Writing their own reproach, to whose soft seizure

--------------------------------------------------------------

1) Note the iambic pentameter in lines 84-86

2) "seizure" in line 87 runs over by one syllable (*)

3) "Handlest" in line 85 was purposefully chosen

4) "Writing" in line 87 integrates "hands" and "ink"

(*) But I would argue that eliminating "own," while making the line five iambic feet and also retaining the meaning, would have thrown an ugly syncopation into the rhythm (read it out loud without "own" - it sounds awkward). Thus, the second syllable in "seizure" is a "ghost syllable" (my own term - I suspect there's a name for it, but I don't know what it is).

---

Edit: (If anyone can see Hamilton Johnson's Facebook posts, I swear to God I just accidentally wrote a rhyming couplet to him in iambic pentameter here. The odds of anyone believing this are zero, but it's true. I didn't even know it rhymed until after I read it, and once I noticed, I had to change one syllable to make it a perfect fit. Damn!)

[porcupine]

Everyone interested in Shakespeare should check out this video about original pronunciation.  Apparently it really changes your understanding of the works.

[DonRocks]

Act I, Scene 2

The Same. A street. 

[Enter CRESSIDA and ALEXANDER]

• Cressida. Who were those went by?

• Alexander. Queen Hecuba and Helen.

• Cressida. And whither go they? 155

• Alexander. Up to the eastern tower,
  Whose height commands as subject all the vale,
  To see the battle. Hector, whose patience
  Is, as a virtue, fix'd, to-day was moved:
  He chid Andromache and struck his armourer, 160
  
  And, like as there were husbandry in war,
  Before the sun rose he was harness'd light,
  And to the field goes he; where every flower
  Did, as a prophet, weep what it foresaw
  In Hector's wrath. 165

• Cressida. What was his cause of anger?

• Alexander. The noise goes, this: there is among the Greeks
  A lord of Trojan blood, nephew to Hector;
  They call him Ajax.

• Cressida. Good; and what of him? 170

• Alexander. They say he is a very man per se,
  And stands alone.

• Cressida. So do all men, unless they are drunk, sick, or have no legs.

• Alexander. This man, lady, hath robbed many beasts of their
  particular additions; he is as valiant as the lion, 175
  
  churlish as the bear, slow as the elephant: a man
  into whom nature hath so crowded humours that his
  valour is crushed into folly, his folly sauced with
  discretion: there is no man hath a virtue that he
  hath not a glimpse of, nor any man an attaint but he 180
  
  carries some stain of it: he is melancholy without
  cause, and merry against the hair: he hath the
  joints of every thing, but everything so out of joint
  that he is a gouty Briareus, many hands and no use,
  or purblind Argus, all eyes and no sight. 185

• Cressida. But how should this man, that makes
  me smile, make Hector angry?

• Alexander. They say he yesterday coped Hector in the battle and
  struck him down, the disdain and shame whereof hath
  ever since kept Hector fasting and waking. 190

• Cressida. Who comes here?

• Alexander. Madam, your uncle Pandarus.

[Enter PANDARUS]

• Cressida. Hector's a gallant man.

• Alexander. As may be in the world, lady. 195

• Pandarus. What's that? what's that?

• Cressida. Good morrow, uncle Pandarus.

• Pandarus. Good morrow, cousin Cressid: what do you talk of?
  Good morrow, Alexander. How do you, cousin? When
  were you at Ilium? 200

• Cressida. This morning, uncle.

• Pandarus. What were you talking of when I came? Was Hector
  armed and gone ere ye came to Ilium? Helen was not
  up, was she?

• Cressida. Hector was gone, but Helen was not up. 205

• Pandarus. Even so: Hector was stirring early.

• Cressida. That were we talking of, and of his anger.

• Pandarus. Was he angry?

• Cressida. So he says here.

• Pandarus. True, he was so: I know the cause too: he'll lay 210
  
  about him to-day, I can tell them that: and there's
  Troilus will not come far behind him: let them take
  heed of Troilus, I can tell them that too.

• Cressida. What, is he angry too?

• Pandarus. Who, Troilus? Troilus is the better man of the two. 215

• Cressida. O Jupiter! there's no comparison.

• Pandarus. What, not between Troilus and Hector? Do you know a
  man if you see him?

• Cressida. Ay, if I ever saw him before and knew him.

• Pandarus. Well, I say Troilus is Troilus. 220

• Cressida. Then you say as I say; for, I am sure, he is not Hector.

• Pandarus. No, nor Hector is not Troilus in some degrees.

• Cressida. 'Tis just to each of them; he is himself.

• Pandarus. Himself! Alas, poor Troilus! I would he were.

• Cressida. So he is. 225

• Pandarus. Condition, I had gone barefoot to India.

• Cressida. He is not Hector.

• Pandarus. Himself! no, he's not himself: would a' were
  himself! Well, the gods are above; time must friend
  or end: well, Troilus, well: I would my heart were 230
  
  in her body. No, Hector is not a better man than Troilus.

• Cressida. Excuse me.

• Pandarus. He is elder.

• Cressida. Pardon me, pardon me.

• Pandarus. Th' other's not come to't; you shall tell me another 235
  
  tale, when th' other's come to't. Hector shall not
  have his wit this year.

• Cressida. He shall not need it, if he have his own.

• Pandarus. Nor his qualities.

• Cressida. No matter. 240

• Pandarus. Nor his beauty.

• Cressida. 'Twould not become him; his own's better.

• Pandarus. You have no judgment, niece: Helen
  herself swore th' other day, that Troilus, for
  a brown favour"”for so 'tis, I must confess,"” 245
  
  not brown neither,"”

• Cressida. No, but brown.

• Pandarus. 'Faith, to say truth, brown and not brown.

• Cressida. To say the truth, true and not true.

• Pandarus. She praised his complexion above Paris. 250

• Cressida. Why, Paris hath colour enough.

• Pandarus. So he has.

• Cressida. Then Troilus should have too much: if she praised
  him above, his complexion is higher than his; he
  having colour enough, and the other higher, is too 255
  
  flaming a praise for a good complexion. I had as
  lief Helen's golden tongue had commended Troilus for
  a copper nose.

• Pandarus. I swear to you. I think Helen loves him better than Paris.

• Cressida. Then she's a merry Greek indeed. 260

• Pandarus. Nay, I am sure she does. She came to him th' other
  day into the compassed window,"”and, you know, he
  has not past three or four hairs on his chin,"”

• Cressida. Indeed, a tapster's arithmetic may soon bring his
  particulars therein to a total. 265

• Pandarus. Why, he is very young: and yet will he, within
  three pound, lift as much as his brother Hector.

• Cressida. Is he so young a man and so old a lifter?

• Pandarus. But to prove to you that Helen loves him: she came
  and puts me her white hand to his cloven chin"” 270

• Cressida. Juno have mercy! how came it cloven?

• Pandarus. Why, you know 'tis dimpled: I think his smiling
  becomes him better than any man in all Phrygia.

• Cressida. O, he smiles valiantly.

• Pandarus. Does he not? 275

• Cressida. O yes, an 'twere a cloud in autumn.

• Pandarus. Why, go to, then: but to prove to you that Helen
  loves Troilus,"”

• Cressida. Troilus will stand to the proof, if you'll
  prove it so. 280

• Pandarus. Troilus! why, he esteems her no more than I esteem
  an addle egg.

• Cressida. If you love an addle egg as well as you love an idle
  head, you would eat chickens i' the shell.

• Pandarus. I cannot choose but laugh, to think how she tickled 285
  
  his chin: indeed, she has a marvellous white hand, I
  must needs confess,"”

• Cressida. Without the rack.

• Pandarus. And she takes upon her to spy a white hair on his chin.

• Cressida. Alas, poor chin! many a wart is richer. 290

• Pandarus. But there was such laughing! Queen Hecuba laughed
  that her eyes ran o'er.

• Cressida. With mill-stones.

• Pandarus. And Cassandra laughed.

• Cressida. But there was more temperate fire under the pot of 295
  
  her eyes: did her eyes run o'er too?

• Pandarus. And Hector laughed.

• Cressida. At what was all this laughing?

• Pandarus. Marry, at the white hair that Helen spied on Troilus' chin.

• Cressida. An't had been a green hair, I should have laughed 300
  
  too.

• Pandarus. They laughed not so much at the hair as at his pretty answer.

• Cressida. What was his answer?

• Pandarus. Quoth she, 'Here's but two and fifty hairs on your
  chin, and one of them is white. 305

• Cressida. This is her question.

• Pandarus. That's true; make no question of that. 'Two and
  fifty hairs' quoth he, 'and one white: that white
  hair is my father, and all the rest are his sons.'
  'Jupiter!' quoth she, 'which of these hairs is Paris, 310
  
  my husband? 'The forked one,' quoth he, 'pluck't
  out, and give it him.' But there was such laughing!
  and Helen so blushed, an Paris so chafed, and all the
  rest so laughed, that it passed.

• Cressida. So let it now; for it has been while going by. 315

• Pandarus. Well, cousin. I told you a thing yesterday; think on't.

• Cressida. So I do.

• Pandarus. I'll be sworn 'tis true; he will weep you, an 'twere
  a man born in April.

• Cressida. And I'll spring up in his tears, an 'twere a nettle 320
  
  against May.

[A retreat sounded]

• Pandarus. Hark! they are coming from the field: shall we
  stand up here, and see them as they pass toward
  Ilium? good niece, do, sweet niece Cressida. 325

• Cressida. At your pleasure.

• Pandarus. Here, here, here's an excellent place; here we may
  see most bravely: I'll tell you them all by their
  names as they pass by; but mark Troilus above the rest.

• Cressida. Speak not so loud. 330

[AENEAS passes]

• Pandarus. That's AEneas: is not that a brave man? he's one of
  the flowers of Troy, I can tell you: but mark
  Troilus; you shall see anon.

[ANTENOR passes]

• Cressida. Who's that?

• Pandarus. That's Antenor: he has a shrewd wit, I can tell you;
  and he's a man good enough, he's one o' the soundest
  judgments in whosoever, and a proper man of person.
  When comes Troilus? I'll show you Troilus anon: if 340
  
  he see me, you shall see him nod at me.

• Cressida. Will he give you the nod?

• Pandarus. You shall see.

• Cressida. If he do, the rich shall have more.

[HECTOR passes]

• Pandarus. That's Hector, that, that, look you, that; there's a
  fellow! Go thy way, Hector! There's a brave man,
  niece. O brave Hector! Look how he looks! there's
  a countenance! is't not a brave man?

• Cressida. O, a brave man! 350

• Pandarus. Is a' not? it does a man's heart good. Look you
  what hacks are on his helmet! look you yonder, do
  you see? look you there: there's no jesting;
  there's laying on, take't off who will, as they say:
  there be hacks! 355

• Cressida. Be those with swords?

• Pandarus. Swords! any thing, he cares not; an the devil come
  to him, it's all one: by God's lid, it does one's
  heart good. Yonder comes Paris, yonder comes Paris.
  [PARIS passes] 360
  
  Look ye yonder, niece; is't not a gallant man too,
  is't not? Why, this is brave now. Who said he came
  hurt home to-day? he's not hurt: why, this will do
  Helen's heart good now, ha! Would I could see
  Troilus now! You shall see Troilus anon. 365

[HELENUS passes]

• Cressida. Who's that?

• Pandarus. That's Helenus. I marvel where Troilus is. That's
  Helenus. I think he went not forth to-day. That's Helenus.

• Cressida. Can Helenus fight, uncle? 370

• Pandarus. Helenus? no. Yes, he'll fight indifferent well. I
  marvel where Troilus is. Hark! do you not hear the
  people cry 'Troilus'? Helenus is a priest.

• Cressida. What sneaking fellow comes yonder?

[TROILUS passes]

• Pandarus. Where? yonder? that's Deiphobus. 'Tis Troilus!
  there's a man, niece! Hem! Brave Troilus! the
  prince of chivalry!

• Cressida. Peace, for shame, peace!

• Pandarus. Mark him; note him. O brave Troilus! Look well upon 380
  
  him, niece: look you how his sword is bloodied, and
  his helm more hacked than Hector's, and how he looks,
  and how he goes! O admirable youth! he ne'er saw
  three and twenty. Go thy way, Troilus, go thy way!
  Had I a sister were a grace, or a daughter a goddess, 385
  
  he should take his choice. O admirable man! Paris?
  Paris is dirt to him; and, I warrant, Helen, to
  change, would give an eye to boot.

• Cressida. Here come more.

[Forces pass]

• Pandarus. Asses, fools, dolts! chaff and bran, chaff and bran!
  porridge after meat! I could live and die i' the
  eyes of Troilus. Ne'er look, ne'er look: the eagles
  are gone: crows and daws, crows and daws! I had
  rather be such a man as Troilus than Agamemnon and 395
  
  all Greece.

• Cressida. There is among the Greeks Achilles, a better man than Troilus.

• Pandarus. Achilles! a drayman, a porter, a very camel.

• Cressida. Well, well.

• Pandarus. 'Well, well!' why, have you any discretion? have 400
  
  you any eyes? Do you know what a man is? Is not
  birth, beauty, good shape, discourse, manhood,
  learning, gentleness, virtue, youth, liberality,
  and such like, the spice and salt that season a man?

• Cressida. Ay, a minced man: and then to be baked with no date 405
  
  in the pie, for then the man's date's out.

• Pandarus. You are such a woman! one knows not at what ward you
  lie.

• Cressida. Upon my back, to defend my belly; upon my wit, to
  defend my wiles; upon my secrecy, to defend mine 410
  
  honesty; my mask, to defend my beauty; and you, to
  defend all these: and at all these wards I lie, at a
  thousand watches.

• Pandarus. Say one of your watches.

• Cressida. Nay, I'll watch you for that; and that's one of the 415
  
  chiefest of them too: if I cannot ward what I would
  not have hit, I can watch you for telling how I took
  the blow; unless it swell past hiding, and then it's
  past watching.

• Pandarus. You are such another! 420

[Enter Troilus's Boy]

• Boy. Sir, my lord would instantly speak with you.

• Pandarus. Where?

• Boy. At your own house; there he unarms him.

• Pandarus. Good boy, tell him I come. 425
  
  [Exit boy]
  I doubt he be hurt. Fare ye well, good niece.

• Cressida. Adieu, uncle.

• Pandarus. I'll be with you, niece, by and by.

• Cressida. To bring, uncle? 430

• Pandarus. Ay, a token from Troilus.

• Cressida. By the same token, you are a bawd.
  [Exit PANDARUS]
  Words, vows, gifts, tears, and love's full sacrifice,
  He offers in another's enterprise; 435
  
  But more in Troilus thousand fold I see
  Than in the glass of Pandar's praise may be;
  Yet hold I off. Women are angels, wooing:
  Things won are done; joy's soul lies in the doing.
  That she beloved knows nought that knows not this: 440
  
  Men prize the thing ungain'd more than it is:
  That she was never yet that ever knew
  Love got so sweet as when desire did sue.
  Therefore this maxim out of love I teach:
  Achievement is command; ungain'd, beseech: 445
  
  Then though my heart's content firm love doth bear,
  Nothing of that shall from mine eyes appear.

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

One of the most relevant characters in the play, for 21st-century English speakers, is Pandarus, whose very name is the origin of the verb "to pander" (or the noun "a pander" - a pimp). The rather "gentle" - some might say lily-livered - Troilus is lovesick over Pandarus' niece Cressida to the point where he no longer has the fire in his belly necessary to engage in war, and Pandarus literally "panders" to him in Act 1 Scene 1, talking up Cressida (you'll see later in the play, he does the exact same thing to Cressida, pandering to her while talking up Troilus - acting as a go-between, a matchmaker, a panderer).

Here here we have, in Act 1 Scene 2, a companion scene to the previous - with Pandarus pandering in all his shameless glory; this time, trying to sell Cressida on Troilus (why is he doing this?)

The procession of soldiers seems to go on forever, but it serves to show just how "low" Troilus is on the totem pole. I would suppose Troilus is a scrawny little teenager, bearing little resemblance to the true Greek warriors that passed before him: Aeneas, Antenor, Hector, and Helenus.

While Pandaraus is pandering, Cressida is showing what may be her true colors - a teasing, flighty, perhaps even self-centered woman, for now keeping her cards close to the vest and playing right along with the situation, enjoying the attention.

Is Troilus and Cressida setting up to be a Historical Play? A Romance? A Tragedy? A Comedy? We'll just have to keep reading and find out.

By the way, if you click on the character names, you'll be taken to www.opensourceshakespeare.org (which is where I'm getting the text from). The website is really nicely organized, and shows off the advantages of having this text in digital (i.e., searchable) format.

Everyone interested in Shakespeare should check out this video about original pronunciation.  Apparently it really changes your understanding of the works. 

I watched this entire video (it's not very long), and it is extremely entertaining and informative. The young actor really has a presence, doesn't he?

[DIShGo]

The most interesting part of this scene for me is Cressida's speech at the end. While she is taken with Troilus, she doesn't want to let on. She fears he is more interested in the chase and will lose his desire for her when he actually catches her.

Today, many women still believe that men will desire them more if they remain somewhat unattainable. Playing hard to get was around in Shakespeare's time and is happening today.

Is Cressida correct? Will Troilus' devotion wane when she succumbs?

I enjoyed the video about the original pronunciations. Very interesting and informative. I prefer the sound of the original pronunciations.

[DonRocks]

Act I, Scene 3

The Grecian camp. Before Agamemnon's tent.

[sennet. Enter AGAMEMNON, NESTOR, ULYSSES,] [p]MENELAUS, and others]

• Agamemnon. Princes,
  What grief hath set the jaundice on your cheeks?
  The ample proposition that hope makes
  In all designs begun on earth below
  Fails in the promised largeness: cheques and disasters 455
  
  Grow in the veins of actions highest rear'd,
  As knots, by the conflux of meeting sap,
  Infect the sound pine and divert his grain
  Tortive and errant from his course of growth.
  Nor, princes, is it matter new to us 460
  
  That we come short of our suppose so far
  That after seven years' siege yet Troy walls stand;
  Sith every action that hath gone before,
  Whereof we have record, trial did draw
  Bias and thwart, not answering the aim, 465
  
  And that unbodied figure of the thought
  That gave't surmised shape. Why then, you princes,
  Do you with cheeks abash'd behold our works,
  And call them shames? which are indeed nought else
  But the protractive trials of great Jove 470
  
  To find persistive constancy in men:
  The fineness of which metal is not found
  In fortune's love; for then the bold and coward,
  The wise and fool, the artist and unread,
  The hard and soft seem all affined and kin: 475
  
  But, in the wind and tempest of her frown,
  Distinction, with a broad and powerful fan,
  Puffing at all, winnows the light away;
  And what hath mass or matter, by itself
  Lies rich in virtue and unmingled. 480

• Nestor. With due observance of thy godlike seat,
  Great Agamemnon, Nestor shall apply
  Thy latest words. In the reproof of chance
  Lies the true proof of men: the sea being smooth,
  How many shallow bauble boats dare sail 485
  
  Upon her patient breast, making their way
  With those of nobler bulk!
  But let the ruffian Boreas once enrage
  The gentle Thetis, and anon behold
  The strong-ribb'd bark through liquid mountains cut, 490
  
  Bounding between the two moist elements,
  Like Perseus' horse: where's then the saucy boat
  Whose weak untimber'd sides but even now
  Co-rivall'd greatness? Either to harbour fled,
  Or made a toast for Neptune. Even so 495
  
  Doth valour's show and valour's worth divide
  In storms of fortune; for in her ray and brightness
  The herd hath more annoyance by the breeze
  Than by the tiger; but when the splitting wind
  Makes flexible the knees of knotted oaks, 500
  
  And flies fled under shade, why, then the thing of courage
  As roused with rage with rage doth sympathize,
  And with an accent tuned in selfsame key
  Retorts to chiding fortune.

• Ulysses. Agamemnon, 505
  
  Thou great commander, nerve and bone of Greece,
  Heart of our numbers, soul and only spirit.
  In whom the tempers and the minds of all
  Should be shut up, hear what Ulysses speaks.
  Besides the applause and approbation To which, 510
  
  [To AGAMEMNON]
  most mighty for thy place and sway,
  [To NESTOR]
  And thou most reverend for thy stretch'd-out life
  I give to both your speeches, which were such 515
  
  As Agamemnon and the hand of Greece
  Should hold up high in brass, and such again
  As venerable Nestor, hatch'd in silver,
  Should with a bond of air, strong as the axle-tree
  On which heaven rides, knit all the Greekish ears 520
  
  To his experienced tongue, yet let it please both,
  Thou great, and wise, to hear Ulysses speak.

• Agamemnon. Speak, prince of Ithaca; and be't of less expect
  That matter needless, of importless burden,
  Divide thy lips, than we are confident, 525
  
  When rank Thersites opes his mastic jaws,
  We shall hear music, wit and oracle.

• Ulysses. Troy, yet upon his basis, had been down,
  And the great Hector's sword had lack'd a master,
  But for these instances. 530
  
  The specialty of rule hath been neglected:
  And, look, how many Grecian tents do stand
  Hollow upon this plain, so many hollow factions.
  When that the general is not like the hive
  To whom the foragers shall all repair, 535
  
  What honey is expected? Degree being vizarded,
  The unworthiest shows as fairly in the mask.
  The heavens themselves, the planets and this centre
  Observe degree, priority and place,
  Insisture, course, proportion, season, form, 540
  
  Office and custom, in all line of order;
  And therefore is the glorious planet Sol
  In noble eminence enthroned and sphered
  Amidst the other; whose medicinable eye
  Corrects the ill aspects of planets evil, 545
  
  And posts, like the commandment of a king,
  Sans cheque to good and bad: but when the planets
  In evil mixture to disorder wander,
  What plagues and what portents! what mutiny!
  What raging of the sea! shaking of earth! 550
  
  Commotion in the winds! frights, changes, horrors,
  Divert and crack, rend and deracinate
  The unity and married calm of states
  Quite from their fixure! O, when degree is shaked,
  Which is the ladder to all high designs, 555
  
  Then enterprise is sick! How could communities,
  Degrees in schools and brotherhoods in cities,
  Peaceful commerce from dividable shores,
  The primogenitive and due of birth,
  Prerogative of age, crowns, sceptres, laurels, 560
  
  But by degree, stand in authentic place?
  Take but degree away, untune that string,
  And, hark, what discord follows! each thing meets
  In mere oppugnancy: the bounded waters
  Should lift their bosoms higher than the shores 565
  
  And make a sop of all this solid globe:
  Strength should be lord of imbecility,
  And the rude son should strike his father dead:
  Force should be right; or rather, right and wrong,
  Between whose endless jar justice resides, 570
  
  Should lose their names, and so should justice too.
  Then every thing includes itself in power,
  Power into will, will into appetite;
  And appetite, an universal wolf,
  So doubly seconded with will and power, 575
  
  Must make perforce an universal prey,
  And last eat up himself. Great Agamemnon,
  This chaos, when degree is suffocate,
  Follows the choking.
  And this neglection of degree it is 580
  
  That by a pace goes backward, with a purpose
  It hath to climb. The general's disdain'd
  By him one step below, he by the next,
  That next by him beneath; so every step,
  Exampled by the first pace that is sick 585
  
  Of his superior, grows to an envious fever
  Of pale and bloodless emulation:
  And 'tis this fever that keeps Troy on foot,
  Not her own sinews. To end a tale of length,
  Troy in our weakness stands, not in her strength. 590

• Nestor. Most wisely hath Ulysses here discover'd
  The fever whereof all our power is sick.

• Agamemnon. The nature of the sickness found, Ulysses,
  What is the remedy?

• Ulysses. The great Achilles, whom opinion crowns 595
  
  The sinew and the forehand of our host,
  Having his ear full of his airy fame,
  Grows dainty of his worth, and in his tent
  Lies mocking our designs: with him Patroclus
  Upon a lazy bed the livelong day 600
  
  Breaks scurril jests;
  And with ridiculous and awkward action,
  Which, slanderer, he imitation calls,
  He pageants us. Sometime, great Agamemnon,
  Thy topless deputation he puts on, 605
  
  And, like a strutting player, whose conceit
  Lies in his hamstring, and doth think it rich
  To hear the wooden dialogue and sound
  'Twixt his stretch'd footing and the scaffoldage,"”
  Such to-be-pitied and o'er-wrested seeming 610
  
  He acts thy greatness in: and when he speaks,
  'Tis like a chime a-mending; with terms unsquared,
  Which, from the tongue of roaring Typhon dropp'd
  Would seem hyperboles. At this fusty stuff
  The large Achilles, on his press'd bed lolling, 615
  
  From his deep chest laughs out a loud applause;
  Cries 'Excellent! 'tis Agamemnon just.
  Now play me Nestor; hem, and stroke thy beard,
  As he being drest to some oration.'
  That's done, as near as the extremest ends 620
  
  Of parallels, as like as Vulcan and his wife:
  Yet god Achilles still cries 'Excellent!
  'Tis Nestor right. Now play him me, Patroclus,
  Arming to answer in a night alarm.'
  And then, forsooth, the faint defects of age 625
  
  Must be the scene of mirth; to cough and spit,
  And, with a palsy-fumbling on his gorget,
  Shake in and out the rivet: and at this sport
  Sir Valour dies; cries 'O, enough, Patroclus;
  Or give me ribs of steel! I shall split all 630
  
  In pleasure of my spleen.' And in this fashion,
  All our abilities, gifts, natures, shapes,
  Severals and generals of grace exact,
  Achievements, plots, orders, preventions,
  Excitements to the field, or speech for truce, 635
  
  Success or loss, what is or is not, serves
  As stuff for these two to make paradoxes.

• Nestor. And in the imitation of these twain"”
  Who, as Ulysses says, opinion crowns
  With an imperial voice"”many are infect. 640
  
  Ajax is grown self-will'd, and bears his head
  In such a rein, in full as proud a place
  As broad Achilles; keeps his tent like him;
  Makes factious feasts; rails on our state of war,
  Bold as an oracle, and sets Thersites, 645
  
  A slave whose gall coins slanders like a mint,
  To match us in comparisons with dirt,
  To weaken and discredit our exposure,
  How rank soever rounded in with danger.

• Ulysses. They tax our policy, and call it cowardice, 650
  
  Count wisdom as no member of the war,
  Forestall prescience, and esteem no act
  But that of hand: the still and mental parts,
  That do contrive how many hands shall strike,
  When fitness calls them on, and know by measure 655
  
  Of their observant toil the enemies' weight,"”
  Why, this hath not a finger's dignity:
  They call this bed-work, mappery, closet-war;
  So that the ram that batters down the wall,
  For the great swing and rudeness of his poise, 660
  
  They place before his hand that made the engine,
  Or those that with the fineness of their souls
  By reason guide his execution.

• Nestor. Let this be granted, and Achilles' horse
  Makes many Thetis' sons. 665

[A tucket]

• Agamemnon. What trumpet? look, Menelaus.

• Menelaus. From Troy.

[Enter AENEAS]

• Agamemnon. What would you 'fore our tent? 670

• Aeneas. Is this great Agamemnon's tent, I pray you?

• Agamemnon. Even this.

• Aeneas. May one, that is a herald and a prince,
  Do a fair message to his kingly ears?

• Agamemnon. With surety stronger than Achilles' arm 675
  
  'Fore all the Greekish heads, which with one voice
  Call Agamemnon head and general.

• Aeneas. Fair leave and large security. How may
  A stranger to those most imperial looks
  Know them from eyes of other mortals? 680

• Agamemnon. How!

• Aeneas. Ay;
  I ask, that I might waken reverence,
  And bid the cheek be ready with a blush
  Modest as morning when she coldly eyes 685
  
  The youthful Phoebus:
  Which is that god in office, guiding men?
  Which is the high and mighty Agamemnon?

• Agamemnon. This Trojan scorns us; or the men of Troy
  Are ceremonious courtiers. 690

• Aeneas. Courtiers as free, as debonair, unarm'd,
  As bending angels; that's their fame in peace:
  But when they would seem soldiers, they have galls,
  Good arms, strong joints, true swords; and,
  Jove's accord, 695
  
  Nothing so full of heart. But peace, AEneas,
  Peace, Trojan; lay thy finger on thy lips!
  The worthiness of praise distains his worth,
  If that the praised himself bring the praise forth:
  But what the repining enemy commends, 700
  
  That breath fame blows; that praise, sole sure,
  transcends.

• Agamemnon. Sir, you of Troy, call you yourself AEneas?

• Aeneas. Ay, Greek, that is my name.

• Agamemnon. What's your affair I pray you? 705

• Aeneas. Sir, pardon; 'tis for Agamemnon's ears.

• Agamemnon. He hears naught privately that comes from Troy.

• Aeneas. Nor I from Troy come not to whisper him:
  I bring a trumpet to awake his ear,
  To set his sense on the attentive bent, 710
  
  And then to speak.

• Agamemnon. Speak frankly as the wind;
  It is not Agamemnon's sleeping hour:
  That thou shalt know. Trojan, he is awake,
  He tells thee so himself. 715

• Aeneas. Trumpet, blow loud,
  Send thy brass voice through all these lazy tents;
  And every Greek of mettle, let him know,
  What Troy means fairly shall be spoke aloud.
  [Trumpet sounds] 720
  
  We have, great Agamemnon, here in Troy
  A prince call'd Hector,"”Priam is his father,"”
  Who in this dull and long-continued truce
  Is rusty grown: he bade me take a trumpet,
  And to this purpose speak. Kings, princes, lords! 725
  
  If there be one among the fair'st of Greece
  That holds his honour higher than his ease,
  That seeks his praise more than he fears his peril,
  That knows his valour, and knows not his fear,
  That loves his mistress more than in confession, 730
  
  With truant vows to her own lips he loves,
  And dare avow her beauty and her worth
  In other arms than hers,"”to him this challenge.
  Hector, in view of Trojans and of Greeks,
  Shall make it good, or do his best to do it, 735
  
  He hath a lady, wiser, fairer, truer,
  Than ever Greek did compass in his arms,
  And will to-morrow with his trumpet call
  Midway between your tents and walls of Troy,
  To rouse a Grecian that is true in love: 740
  
  If any come, Hector shall honour him;
  If none, he'll say in Troy when he retires,
  The Grecian dames are sunburnt and not worth
  The splinter of a lance. Even so much.

• Agamemnon. This shall be told our lovers, Lord AEneas; 745
  
  If none of them have soul in such a kind,
  We left them all at home: but we are soldiers;
  And may that soldier a mere recreant prove,
  That means not, hath not, or is not in love!
  If then one is, or hath, or means to be, 750
  
  That one meets Hector; if none else, I am he.

• Nestor. Tell him of Nestor, one that was a man
  When Hector's grandsire suck'd: he is old now;
  But if there be not in our Grecian host
  One noble man that hath one spark of fire, 755
  
  To answer for his love, tell him from me
  I'll hide my silver beard in a gold beaver
  And in my vantbrace put this wither'd brawn,
  And meeting him will tell him that my lady
  Was fairer than his grandam and as chaste 760
  
  As may be in the world: his youth in flood,
  I'll prove this truth with my three drops of blood.

• Aeneas. Now heavens forbid such scarcity of youth!

• Ulysses. Amen.

• Agamemnon. Fair Lord AEneas, let me touch your hand; 765
  
  To our pavilion shall I lead you, sir.
  Achilles shall have word of this intent;
  So shall each lord of Greece, from tent to tent:
  Yourself shall feast with us before you go
  And find the welcome of a noble foe. 770

[Exeunt all but ULYSSES and NESTOR]

• Ulysses. Nestor!

• Nestor. What says Ulysses?

• Ulysses. I have a young conception in my brain;
  Be you my time to bring it to some shape. 775

• Nestor. What is't?

• Ulysses. This 'tis:
  Blunt wedges rive hard knots: the seeded pride
  That hath to this maturity blown up
  In rank Achilles must or now be cropp'd, 780
  
  Or, shedding, breed a nursery of like evil,
  To overbulk us all.

• Nestor. Well, and how?

• Ulysses. This challenge that the gallant Hector sends,
  However it is spread in general name, 785
  
  Relates in purpose only to Achilles.

• Nestor. The purpose is perspicuous even as substance,
  Whose grossness little characters sum up:
  And, in the publication, make no strain,
  But that Achilles, were his brain as barren 790
  
  As banks of Libya,"”though, Apollo knows,
  'Tis dry enough,"”will, with great speed of judgment,
  Ay, with celerity, find Hector's purpose
  Pointing on him.

• Ulysses. And wake him to the answer, think you? 795

• Nestor. Yes, 'tis most meet: whom may you else oppose,
  That can from Hector bring his honour off,
  If not Achilles? Though't be a sportful combat,
  Yet in the trial much opinion dwells;
  For here the Trojans taste our dear'st repute 800
  
  With their finest palate: and trust to me, Ulysses,
  Our imputation shall be oddly poised
  In this wild action; for the success,
  Although particular, shall give a scantling
  Of good or bad unto the general; 805
  
  And in such indexes, although small pricks
  To their subsequent volumes, there is seen
  The baby figure of the giant mass
  Of things to come at large. It is supposed
  He that meets Hector issues from our choice 810
  
  And choice, being mutual act of all our souls,
  Makes merit her election, and doth boil,
  As 'twere from us all, a man distill'd
  Out of our virtues; who miscarrying,
  What heart receives from hence the conquering part, 815
  
  To steel a strong opinion to themselves?
  Which entertain'd, limbs are his instruments,
  In no less working than are swords and bows
  Directive by the limbs.

• Ulysses. Give pardon to my speech: 820
  
  Therefore 'tis meet Achilles meet not Hector.
  Let us, like merchants, show our foulest wares,
  And think, perchance, they'll sell; if not,
  The lustre of the better yet to show,
  Shall show the better. Do not consent 825
  
  That ever Hector and Achilles meet;
  For both our honour and our shame in this
  Are dogg'd with two strange followers.

• Nestor. I see them not with my old eyes: what are they?

• Ulysses. What glory our Achilles shares from Hector, 830
  
  Were he not proud, we all should share with him:
  But he already is too insolent;
  And we were better parch in Afric sun
  Than in the pride and salt scorn of his eyes,
  Should he 'scape Hector fair: if he were foil'd, 835
  
  Why then, we did our main opinion crush
  In taint of our best man. No, make a lottery;
  And, by device, let blockish Ajax draw
  The sort to fight with Hector: among ourselves
  Give him allowance for the better man; 840
  
  For that will physic the great Myrmidon
  Who broils in loud applause, and make him fall
  His crest that prouder than blue Iris bends.
  If the dull brainless Ajax come safe off,
  We'll dress him up in voices: if he fail, 845
  
  Yet go we under our opinion still
  That we have better men. But, hit or miss,
  Our project's life this shape of sense assumes:
  Ajax employ'd plucks down Achilles' plumes.

• Nestor. Ulysses, 850
  
  Now I begin to relish thy advice;
  And I will give a taste of it forthwith
  To Agamemnon: go we to him straight.
  Two curs shall tame each other: pride alone
  Must tarre the mastiffs on, as 'twere their bone. 855

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

Now we get into the "red meat" of the play.

Just as Act 1, Scene 1 and Act 1, Scene 2 were - in a way - companion pieces, so it is with Act 1, Scene 3 and Act 2, Scene 2.

Note, from this point forward, I'm going to start abbreviating, e.g., Act 3, Scene 2 as 3.2.

1.3 begins with the leader of the Greeks - the great Agamemnon - asking his troops for advice. There is a mirror-image scene forthcoming (2.2), with Priam - the leader of the Trojans - doing the same.

After you finish 2.2 you will have both an understanding of the title characters, Troilus and Cressida (1.1 and 1.2) and also of the philosophies and thoughts of the Greek and Trojan armies (1.3 and 2.2 - both extremely important scenes worth studying) - there is also an intervening scene in between (2.1, coming next).

In this scene, 1.3, Agamemnon hears (largely from the old and wise Nestor) that the Greeks' biggest problem is the prima-donna warrior Achilles, who sits in his tent and pampers himself.

To help set, in your minds, the traits of the two physically strongest Greek warriors, Ajax and Achilles:

Both names begin with "A" (which only helps a little)

"Ajax, stronger than dirt! (And dumber than dirt, too.)"

"Achilles is a heel."

Do a "Find" on Achilles, and you'll be taken back up to the character introductions, and can read about both once again.

But get these two fixed in your minds, and make sure to distance them mentally from Agamemnon, Antenor, and Aeneas.

While Ajax isn't a terrible person, these two are very much in contrast to Nestor and Ulysses - wise, thoughtful men. And Agamemnon, the leader, is smart enough to listen to the wise ones. These five men alone are enough to make for an interesting team: the wise and great leader Agamemnon, wise, sage, and loyal Nestor, and wise and loyal Ulysses ... on the same team as prima-donna bad-ass Achilles (the Greeks' version of Shaun White) and strong-and-stupid Ajax. It is left unclear who, between Achilles and Ajax, would emerge victorious, if the two strong-men should ever get into a fight.

[DonRocks]

Act II, Scene 1

A part of the Grecian camp.

[Enter AJAX and THERSITES]

• Ajax. Thersites!

• Thersites. Agamemnon, how if he had boils? full, all over,
  generally? 860

• Ajax. Thersites!

• Thersites. And those boils did run? say so: did not the
  general run then? were not that a botchy core?

• Ajax. Dog!

• Thersites. Then would come some matter from him; I see none now. 865

• Ajax. Thou bitch-wolf's son, canst thou not hear?
  [beating him]
  Feel, then.

• Thersites. The plague of Greece upon thee, thou mongrel
  beef-witted lord! 870

• Ajax. Speak then, thou vinewedst leaven, speak: I will
  beat thee into handsomeness.

• Thersites. I shall sooner rail thee into wit and holiness: but,
  I think, thy horse will sooner con an oration than
  thou learn a prayer without book. Thou canst strike, 875
  
  canst thou? a red murrain o' thy jade's tricks!

• Ajax. Toadstool, learn me the proclamation.

• Thersites. Dost thou think I have no sense, thou strikest me thus?

• Ajax. The proclamation!

• Thersites. Thou art proclaimed a fool, I think. 880

• Ajax. Do not, porpentine, do not: my fingers itch.

• Thersites. I would thou didst itch from head to foot and I had
  the scratching of thee; I would make thee the
  loathsomest scab in Greece. When thou art forth in
  the incursions, thou strikest as slow as another. 885

• Ajax. I say, the proclamation!

• Thersites. Thou grumblest and railest every hour on Achilles,
  and thou art as full of envy at his greatness as
  Cerberus is at Proserpine's beauty, ay, that thou
  barkest at him. 890

• Ajax. Mistress Thersites!

• Thersites. Thou shouldest strike him.

• Ajax. Cobloaf!

• Thersites. He would pun thee into shivers with his fist, as a
  sailor breaks a biscuit. 895

• Ajax. [beating him] You whoreson cur!

• Thersites. Do, do.

• Ajax. Thou stool for a witch!

• Thersites. Ay, do, do; thou sodden-witted lord! thou hast no
  more brain than I have in mine elbows; an assinego 900
  
  may tutor thee: thou scurvy-valiant ass! thou art
  here but to thrash Trojans; and thou art bought and
  sold among those of any wit, like a barbarian slave.
  If thou use to beat me, I will begin at thy heel, and
  tell what thou art by inches, thou thing of no 905
  
  bowels, thou!

• Ajax. You dog!

• Thersites. You scurvy lord!

• Ajax. [beating him] You cur!

• Thersites. Mars his idiot! do, rudeness; do, camel; do, do. 910

[Enter ACHILLES and PATROCLUS]

• Achilles. Why, how now, Ajax! wherefore do you thus? How now,
  Thersites! what's the matter, man?

• Thersites. You see him there, do you?

• Achilles. Ay; what's the matter? 915

• Thersites. Nay, look upon him.

• Achilles. So I do: what's the matter?

• Thersites. Nay, but regard him well.

• Achilles. 'Well!' why, I do so.

• Thersites. But yet you look not well upon him; for whosoever you 920
  
  take him to be, he is Ajax.

• Achilles. I know that, fool.

• Thersites. Ay, but that fool knows not himself.

• Ajax. Therefore I beat thee.

• Thersites. Lo, lo, lo, lo, what modicums of wit he utters! his 925
  
  evasions have ears thus long. I have bobbed his
  brain more than he has beat my bones: I will buy
  nine sparrows for a penny, and his pia mater is not
  worth the nineth part of a sparrow. This lord,
  Achilles, Ajax, who wears his wit in his belly and 930
  
  his guts in his head, I'll tell you what I say of
  him.

• Achilles. What?

• Thersites. I say, this Ajax"”

[Ajax offers to beat him]

• Achilles. Nay, good Ajax.

• Thersites. Has not so much wit"”

• Achilles. Nay, I must hold you.

• Thersites. As will stop the eye of Helen's needle, for whom he
  comes to fight. 940

• Achilles. Peace, fool!

• Thersites. I would have peace and quietness, but the fool will
  not: he there: that he: look you there.

• Ajax. O thou damned cur! I shall"”

• Achilles. Will you set your wit to a fool's? 945

• Thersites. No, I warrant you; for a fools will shame it.

• Patroclus. Good words, Thersites.

• Achilles. What's the quarrel?

• Ajax. I bade the vile owl go learn me the tenor of the
  proclamation, and he rails upon me. 950

• Thersites. I serve thee not.

• Ajax. Well, go to, go to.

• Thersites. I serve here voluntarily.

• Achilles. Your last service was sufferance, 'twas not
  voluntary: no man is beaten voluntary: Ajax was 955
  
  here the voluntary, and you as under an impress.

• Thersites. E'en so; a great deal of your wit, too, lies in your
  sinews, or else there be liars. Hector have a great
  catch, if he knock out either of your brains: a'
  were as good crack a fusty nut with no kernel. 960

• Achilles. What, with me too, Thersites?

• Thersites. There's Ulysses and old Nestor, whose wit was mouldy
  ere your grandsires had nails on their toes, yoke you
  like draught-oxen and make you plough up the wars.

• Achilles. What, what? 965

• Thersites. Yes, good sooth: to, Achilles! to, Ajax! to!

• Ajax. I shall cut out your tongue.

• Thersites. 'Tis no matter! I shall speak as much as thou
  afterwards.

• Patroclus. No more words, Thersites; peace! 970

• Thersites. I will hold my peace when Achilles' brach bids me, shall I?

• Achilles. There's for you, Patroclus.

• Thersites. I will see you hanged, like clotpoles, ere I come
  any more to your tents: I will keep where there is
  wit stirring and leave the faction of fools. 975

[Exit]

• Patroclus. A good riddance.

• Achilles. Marry, this, sir, is proclaim'd through all our host:
  That Hector, by the fifth hour of the sun,
  Will with a trumpet 'twixt our tents and Troy 980
  
  To-morrow morning call some knight to arms
  That hath a stomach; and such a one that dare
  Maintain"”I know not what: 'tis trash. Farewell.

• Ajax. Farewell. Who shall answer him?

• Achilles. I know not: 'tis put to lottery; otherwise 985
  
  He knew his man.

• Ajax. O, meaning you. I will go learn more of it.

[DonRocks]

2.1 is a very funny scene to me, with some hilariously cutting dialogue coming from Thersites (I think the name is pronounced something like "Atrocities," the first syllable rhyming with "Chair" and having the only accent).

Although Thersites is something akin to "Ajax's bitch," he bears a resemblance to The Fool in King Lear - always pestering people in a very funny, deceptively wise way - the huge difference being that Thersites is one *cranky son of a bitch*, letting it fly and holding in nothing. The exchange between him and Ajax (insult-slap-insult-slap-insult-slap) is really funny, and at least for me, serves as comic relief even though I'm not sure it's supposed to. The creativity and savagery of Thersites' insults would make Jackie Mason blush.

The end of the scene is as catty as any sorority house, with Achilles and Ajax parting, each with a snide one-liner towards each other, very thinly cloaked, or not heard at all (btw, my copy has Achilles leaving the stage before Ajax speaks his last line - a very important detail omitted here). This will certainly have relevance in the upcoming scene, 2.2.

[DIShGo]

I agree with you. I found the dialogue in this scene (2.1) to be very funny. Do you not think that was Shakespeare's intention? I think it would be very entertaining to see this scene performed on stage.

As for the previous Scene (1.3), I appreciated your guide to the characters as well as your assessment of them to help me keep the soldiers straight. To be honest, the first time I read this scene, I found it boring. I have a deeper appreciation of it now, after reading it again and noting the extensive use of iambic pentameter throughout.

[DonRocks]

Act II, Scene 2

Troy. A room in Priam's palace

 
[Enter PRIAM, HECTOR, TROILUS, PARIS, and HELENUS]

• Priam. After so many hours, lives, speeches spent, 990
  Thus once again says Nestor from the Greeks: 
  'Deliver Helen, and all damage else"” 
  As honour, loss of time, travail, expense, 
  Wounds, friends, and what else dear that is consumed 
  In hot digestion of this cormorant war"” 995
  Shall be struck off.' Hector, what say you to't?

• Hector. Though no man lesser fears the Greeks than I 
  As far as toucheth my particular, 
  Yet, dread Priam, 
  There is no lady of more softer bowels, 1000
  More spongy to suck in the sense of fear, 
  More ready to cry out 'Who knows what follows?' 
  Than Hector is: the wound of peace is surety, 
  Surety secure; but modest doubt is call'd 
  The beacon of the wise, the tent that searches 1005
  To the bottom of the worst. Let Helen go: 
  Since the first sword was drawn about this question, 
  Every tithe soul, 'mongst many thousand dismes, 
  Hath been as dear as Helen; I mean, of ours: 
  If we have lost so many tenths of ours, 1010
  To guard a thing not ours nor worth to us, 
  Had it our name, the value of one ten, 
  What merit's in that reason which denies 
  The yielding of her up?

• Troilus. Fie, fie, my brother! 1015
  Weigh you the worth and honour of a king 
  So great as our dread father in a scale 
  Of common ounces? will you with counters sum 
  The past proportion of his infinite? 
  And buckle in a waist most fathomless 1020
  With spans and inches so diminutive 
  As fears and reasons? fie, for godly shame!

• Helenus. No marvel, though you bite so sharp at reasons, 
  You are so empty of them. Should not our father 
  Bear the great sway of his affairs with reasons, 1025
  Because your speech hath none that tells him so?

• Troilus. You are for dreams and slumbers, brother priest; 
  You fur your gloves with reason. Here are 
  your reasons: 
  You know an enemy intends you harm; 1030
  You know a sword employ'd is perilous, 
  And reason flies the object of all harm: 
  Who marvels then, when Helenus beholds 
  A Grecian and his sword, if he do set 
  The very wings of reason to his heels 1035
  And fly like chidden Mercury from Jove, 
  Or like a star disorb'd? Nay, if we talk of reason, 
  Let's shut our gates and sleep: manhood and honour 
  Should have hare-hearts, would they but fat 
  their thoughts 1040
  With this cramm'd reason: reason and respect 
  Make livers pale and lustihood deject.

• Hector. Brother, she is not worth what she doth cost 
  The holding.

• Troilus. What is aught, but as 'tis valued?1045

• Hector. But value dwells not in particular will; 
  It holds his estimate and dignity 
  As well wherein 'tis precious of itself 
  As in the prizer: 'tis mad idolatry 
  To make the service greater than the god 1050
  And the will dotes that is attributive 
  To what infectiously itself affects, 
  Without some image of the affected merit.

• Troilus. I take to-day a wife, and my election 
  Is led on in the conduct of my will; 1055
  My will enkindled by mine eyes and ears, 
  Two traded pilots 'twixt the dangerous shores 
  Of will and judgment: how may I avoid, 
  Although my will distaste what it elected, 
  The wife I chose? there can be no evasion 1060
  To blench from this and to stand firm by honour: 
  We turn not back the silks upon the merchant, 
  When we have soil'd them, nor the remainder viands 
  We do not throw in unrespective sieve, 
  Because we now are full. It was thought meet 1065
  Paris should do some vengeance on the Greeks: 
  Your breath of full consent bellied his sails; 
  The seas and winds, old wranglers, took a truce 
  And did him service: he touch'd the ports desired, 
  And for an old aunt whom the Greeks held captive, 1070
  He brought a Grecian queen, whose youth and freshness 
  Wrinkles Apollo's, and makes stale the morning. 
  Why keep we her? the Grecians keep our aunt: 
  Is she worth keeping? why, she is a pearl, 
  Whose price hath launch'd above a thousand ships, 1075
  And turn'd crown'd kings to merchants. 
  If you'll avouch 'twas wisdom Paris went"” 
  As you must needs, for you all cried 'Go, go,'"” 
  If you'll confess he brought home noble prize"” 
  As you must needs, for you all clapp'd your hands 1080
  And cried 'Inestimable!'"”why do you now 
  The issue of your proper wisdoms rate, 
  And do a deed that fortune never did, 
  Beggar the estimation which you prized 
  Richer than sea and land? O, theft most base, 1085
  That we have stol'n what we do fear to keep! 
  But, thieves, unworthy of a thing so stol'n, 
  That in their country did them that disgrace, 
  We fear to warrant in our native place!

• Cassandra. [Within] Cry, Trojans, cry!1090

• Priam. What noise? what shriek is this?

• Troilus. 'Tis our mad sister, I do know her voice.

• Cassandra. [Within] Cry, Trojans!

• Hector. It is Cassandra.

[Enter CASSANDRA, raving]

• Cassandra. Cry, Trojans, cry! lend me ten thousand eyes, 
  And I will fill them with prophetic tears.

• Hector. Peace, sister, peace!

• Cassandra. Virgins and boys, mid-age and wrinkled eld, 
  Soft infancy, that nothing canst but cry, 1100
  Add to my clamours! let us pay betimes 
  A moiety of that mass of moan to come. 
  Cry, Trojans, cry! practise your eyes with tears! 
  Troy must not be, nor goodly Ilion stand; 
  Our firebrand brother, Paris, burns us all. 1105
  Cry, Trojans, cry! a Helen and a woe: 
  Cry, cry! Troy burns, or else let Helen go.

[Exit]

• Hector. Now, youthful Troilus, do not these high strains 
  Of divination in our sister work 1110
  Some touches of remorse? or is your blood 
  So madly hot that no discourse of reason, 
  Nor fear of bad success in a bad cause, 
  Can qualify the same?

• Troilus. Why, brother Hector, 1115
  We may not think the justness of each act 
  Such and no other than event doth form it, 
  Nor once deject the courage of our minds, 
  Because Cassandra's mad: her brain-sick raptures 
  Cannot distaste the goodness of a quarrel 1120
  Which hath our several honours all engaged 
  To make it gracious. For my private part, 
  I am no more touch'd than all Priam's sons: 
  And Jove forbid there should be done amongst us 
  Such things as might offend the weakest spleen 1125
  To fight for and maintain!

• Paris. Else might the world convince of levity 
  As well my undertakings as your counsels: 
  But I attest the gods, your full consent 
  Gave wings to my propension and cut off 1130
  All fears attending on so dire a project. 
  For what, alas, can these my single arms? 
  What Propugnation is in one man's valour, 
  To stand the push and enmity of those 
  This quarrel would excite? Yet, I protest, 1135
  Were I alone to pass the difficulties 
  And had as ample power as I have will, 
  Paris should ne'er retract what he hath done, 
  Nor faint in the pursuit.

• Priam. Paris, you speak 1140
  Like one besotted on your sweet delights: 
  You have the honey still, but these the gall; 
  So to be valiant is no praise at all.

• Paris. Sir, I propose not merely to myself 
  The pleasures such a beauty brings with it; 1145
  But I would have the soil of her fair rape 
  Wiped off, in honourable keeping her. 
  What treason were it to the ransack'd queen, 
  Disgrace to your great worths and shame to me, 
  Now to deliver her possession up 1150
  On terms of base compulsion! Can it be 
  That so degenerate a strain as this 
  Should once set footing in your generous bosoms? 
  There's not the meanest spirit on our party 
  Without a heart to dare or sword to draw 1155
  When Helen is defended, nor none so noble 
  Whose life were ill bestow'd or death unfamed 
  Where Helen is the subject; then, I say, 
  Well may we fight for her whom, we know well, 
  The world's large spaces cannot parallel.1160

• Hector. Paris and Troilus, you have both said well, 
  And on the cause and question now in hand 
  Have glozed, but superficially: not much 
  Unlike young men, whom Aristotle thought 
  Unfit to hear moral philosophy: 1165
  The reasons you allege do more conduce 
  To the hot passion of distemper'd blood 
  Than to make up a free determination 
  'Twixt right and wrong, for pleasure and revenge 
  Have ears more deaf than adders to the voice 1170
  Of any true decision. Nature craves 
  All dues be render'd to their owners: now, 
  What nearer debt in all humanity 
  Than wife is to the husband? If this law 
  Of nature be corrupted through affection, 1175
  And that great minds, of partial indulgence 
  To their benumbed wills, resist the same, 
  There is a law in each well-order'd nation 
  To curb those raging appetites that are 
  Most disobedient and refractory. 1180
  If Helen then be wife to Sparta's king, 
  As it is known she is, these moral laws 
  Of nature and of nations speak aloud 
  To have her back return'd: thus to persist 
  In doing wrong extenuates not wrong, 1185
  But makes it much more heavy. Hector's opinion 
  Is this in way of truth; yet ne'ertheless, 
  My spritely brethren, I propend to you 
  In resolution to keep Helen still, 
  For 'tis a cause that hath no mean dependance 1190
  Upon our joint and several dignities.

• Troilus. Why, there you touch'd the life of our design: 
  Were it not glory that we more affected 
  Than the performance of our heaving spleens, 
  I would not wish a drop of Trojan blood 1195
  Spent more in her defence. But, worthy Hector, 
  She is a theme of honour and renown, 
  A spur to valiant and magnanimous deeds, 
  Whose present courage may beat down our foes, 
  And fame in time to come canonize us; 1200
  For, I presume, brave Hector would not lose 
  So rich advantage of a promised glory 
  As smiles upon the forehead of this action 
  For the wide world's revenue.

• Hector. I am yours, 1205
  You valiant offspring of great Priamus. 
  I have a roisting challenge sent amongst 
  The dun and factious nobles of the Greeks 
  Will strike amazement to their drowsy spirits: 
  I was advertised their great general slept, 1210
  Whilst emulation in the army crept: 
  This, I presume, will wake him.

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

It is incredibly galling in this scene that Paris and Troilus - the two biggest pussies in the Trojan army, are the ones arguing to continue the bloodshed, whereas the older, nobler, wiser ones are counseling against it. Paris is reaping the "honeyed" benefits of a stolen Helen - why would he not want his brothers fighting to protect his purloined muff? Troilus is the most lily-livered of the bunch, being so infatuated with Cressida that his tiny little examples of pre-pubescent doo-dads could easily be mistaken for a couple of Raisinettes. The almost farcical component in this scene is that they're being treated seriously by Priam - seemingly with equal consideration to their far superior comrades who have busted their butts fighting for ... what, exactly?

Cassandra is a wonderful break-in here, much like Lady Macbeth in her candle scene, but more succinct, smaller, and not as scary:

"Cry, Trojans, cry! a Helen and a woe: 

Cry, cry! Troy burns, or else let Helen go."

Don't say you weren't aptly foretold, my dear Trojans.

Rule #1: Whenever a Shakespearean character issues a supernatural warning, regardless of their perceived mental state, ignore it at your own peril.

And yes, this is another piece of prose:

written nor in rhyme, nor couplet, but shows

iambic pentameter. My alert

warned, from the first, that I am no expert.

Thus, no mention of this again, but still:

A rhyming couplet will bid this adieu,

and I look forward hearing back from you.

[DIShGo]

It is incredibly galling in this scene that Paris and Troilus - the two biggest pussies in the Trojan army, are the ones arguing to continue the bloodshed, whereas the older, nobler, wiser ones are counseling against it. Paris is reaping the "honeyed" benefits of a stolen Helen - why would he not want his brothers fighting to protect his purloined muff? Troilus is the most lily-livered of the bunch, being so infatuated with Cressida that his tiny little examples of pre-pubescent doo-dads could easily be mistaken for a couple of Raisinettes. The almost farcical component in this scene is that they're being treated seriously by Priam - seemingly with equal consideration to their far superior comrades who have busted their butts fighting for ... what, exactly?

While I have found this play to be rather dull so far, your commentary has been anything but! Purloined muff and Raisinettes. You are a colorful writer, Don.

It seems odd to me that Troilus is suddenly all gung-ho to fight when throughout the play hasn't seemed to care about the war. Why do you think he is reacting this way? Is he merely saying what he thinks he is expected to say? Is he trying to appear tough to impress Cressida? Do you think Shakespeare meant for this scene to be farcical?

[DonRocks]

While I have found this play to be rather dull so far, your commentary has been anything but! Purloined muff and Raisinettes. You are a colorful writer, Don.

It seems odd to me that Troilus is suddenly all gung-ho to fight when throughout the play hasn't seemed to care about the war. Why do you think he is reacting this way? Is he merely saying what he thinks he is expected to say? Is he trying to appear tough to impress Cressida? Do you think Shakespeare meant for this scene to be farcical?

I see nothing in the play, at least not up to this point, that would cause such a bellicose outburst by Troilus. Pandarus is not present in the scene, and neither is Cressida, so there's no reason to suppose this conversation would reach her. I don't think this is a farce, either; I'm hoping there will be some justification in upcoming scenes because this fiery attitude of Troilus needs some literary support.

There's no doubting the sheer genius of the man called Shakespeare, but if you've ever read his early works (and I'm referring specifically to Henry VI, Part 1, and Henry VI, Part 2) they go from "really bad," to "so bad that you can't believe this is Shakespeare." (They're worth reading just to see that even "The Greatest" isn't always great (Rachmaninov just popped into my head - his early piano works *suck*.)) What I'm getting at is: there's a chance this may never be explained.

I am not saying this to shame, or shock,

but art has foibles - all, except for Bach.

[chefgunshow]

Chaucer did a version too that's pretty interesting. Though not as bawdy as I would like.

The history plays are a little on the lame side, but we all have to be at least a little lame before we get awesome.

Put that on a tshirt.

Sounds like a quote from My So Called Life.

Speaking of lame. . .

[DonRocks]

Act II, Scene 3

The Grecian camp. Before Achilles' tent.

[Enter THERSITES, solus]

• Thersites. How now, Thersites! what lost in the labyrinth of 1215
  thy fury! Shall the elephant Ajax carry it thus? He 
  beats me, and I rail at him: O, worthy satisfaction! 
  would it were otherwise; that I could beat him, 
  whilst he railed at me. 'Sfoot, I'll learn to 
  conjure and raise devils, but I'll see some issue of 1220
  my spiteful execrations. Then there's Achilles, a 
  rare enginer! If Troy be not taken till these two 
  undermine it, the walls will stand till they fall of 
  themselves. O thou great thunder-darter of Olympus, 
  forget that thou art Jove, the king of gods and, 1225
  Mercury, lose all the serpentine craft of thy 
  caduceus, if ye take not that little, little less 
  than little wit from them that they have! which 
  short-armed ignorance itself knows is so abundant 
  scarce, it will not in circumvention deliver a fly 1230
  from a spider, without drawing their massy irons and 
  cutting the web. After this, the vengeance on the 
  whole camp! or rather, the bone-ache! for that, 
  methinks, is the curse dependent on those that war 
  for a placket. I have said my prayers and devil Envy 1235
  say Amen. What ho! my Lord Achilles!

[Enter PATROCLUS]

• Patroclus. Who's there? Thersites! Good Thersites, come in and rail.

• Thersites. If I could have remembered a gilt counterfeit, thou 
  wouldst not have slipped out of my contemplation: but 1240
  it is no matter; thyself upon thyself! The common 
  curse of mankind, folly and ignorance, be thine in 
  great revenue! heaven bless thee from a tutor, and 
  discipline come not near thee! Let thy blood be thy 
  direction till thy death! then if she that lays thee 1245
  out says thou art a fair corse, I'll be sworn and 
  sworn upon't she never shrouded any but lazars. 
  Amen. Where's Achilles?

• Patroclus. What, art thou devout? wast thou in prayer?

• Thersites. Ay: the heavens hear me!1250

[Enter ACHILLES]

• Achilles. Who's there?

• Patroclus. Thersites, my lord.

• Achilles. Where, where? Art thou come? why, my cheese, my 
  digestion, why hast thou not served thyself in to 1255
  my table so many meals? Come, what's Agamemnon?

• Thersites. Thy commander, Achilles. Then tell me, Patroclus, 
  what's Achilles?

• Patroclus. Thy lord, Thersites: then tell me, I pray thee, 
  what's thyself?1260

• Thersites. Thy knower, Patroclus: then tell me, Patroclus, 
  what art thou?

• Patroclus. Thou mayst tell that knowest.

• Achilles. O, tell, tell.

• Thersites. I'll decline the whole question. Agamemnon commands 1265
  Achilles; Achilles is my lord; I am Patroclus' 
  knower, and Patroclus is a fool.

• Patroclus. You rascal!

• Thersites. Peace, fool! I have not done.

• Achilles. He is a privileged man. Proceed, Thersites.1270

• Thersites. Agamemnon is a fool; Achilles is a fool; Thersites 
  is a fool, and, as aforesaid, Patroclus is a fool.

• Achilles. Derive this; come.

• Thersites. Agamemnon is a fool to offer to command Achilles; 
  Achilles is a fool to be commanded of Agamemnon; 1275
  Thersites is a fool to serve such a fool, and 
  Patroclus is a fool positive.

• Patroclus. Why am I a fool?

• Thersites. Make that demand of the prover. It suffices me thou 
  art. Look you, who comes here?1280

• Achilles. Patroclus, I'll speak with nobody. 
  Come in with me, Thersites.

[Exit]

• Thersites. Here is such patchery, such juggling and such 
  knavery! all the argument is a cuckold and a 1285
  whore; a good quarrel to draw emulous factions 
  and bleed to death upon. Now, the dry serpigo on 
  the subject! and war and lechery confound all!

[Exit]

[Enter AGAMEMNON, ULYSSES, NESTOR, DIOMEDES, and AJAX]

• Agamemnon. Where is Achilles?

• Patroclus. Within his tent; but ill disposed, my lord.

• Agamemnon. Let it be known to him that we are here. 
  He shent our messengers; and we lay by 
  Our appertainments, visiting of him: 1295
  Let him be told so; lest perchance he think 
  We dare not move the question of our place, 
  Or know not what we are.

• Patroclus. I shall say so to him.

[Exit]

• Ulysses. We saw him at the opening of his tent: 
  He is not sick.

• Ajax. Yes, lion-sick, sick of proud heart: you may call it 
  melancholy, if you will favour the man; but, by my 
  head, 'tis pride: but why, why? let him show us the 1305
  cause. A word, my lord.

[Takes AGAMEMNON aside]

• Nestor. What moves Ajax thus to bay at him?

• Ulysses. Achilles hath inveigled his fool from him.

• Nestor. Who, Thersites?1310

• Ulysses. He.

• Nestor. Then will Ajax lack matter, if he have lost his argument.

• Ulysses. No, you see, he is his argument that has his 
  argument, Achilles.

• Nestor. All the better; their fraction is more our wish than 1315
  their faction: but it was a strong composure a fool 
  could disunite.

• Ulysses. The amity that wisdom knits not, folly may easily 
  untie. Here comes Patroclus.

[Re-enter PATROCLUS]

• Nestor. No Achilles with him.

• Ulysses. The elephant hath joints, but none for courtesy: 
  his legs are legs for necessity, not for flexure.

• Patroclus. Achilles bids me say, he is much sorry, 
  If any thing more than your sport and pleasure 1325
  Did move your greatness and this noble state 
  To call upon him; he hopes it is no other 
  But for your health and your digestion sake, 
  And after-dinner's breath.

• Agamemnon. Hear you, Patroclus: 1330
  We are too well acquainted with these answers: 
  But his evasion, wing'd thus swift with scorn, 
  Cannot outfly our apprehensions. 
  Much attribute he hath, and much the reason 
  Why we ascribe it to him; yet all his virtues, 1335
  Not virtuously on his own part beheld, 
  Do in our eyes begin to lose their gloss, 
  Yea, like fair fruit in an unwholesome dish, 
  Are like to rot untasted. Go and tell him, 
  We come to speak with him; and you shall not sin, 1340
  If you do say we think him over-proud 
  And under-honest, in self-assumption greater 
  Than in the note of judgment; and worthier 
  than himself 
  Here tend the savage strangeness he puts on, 1345
  Disguise the holy strength of their command, 
  And underwrite in an observing kind 
  His humorous predominance; yea, watch 
  His pettish lunes, his ebbs, his flows, as if 
  The passage and whole carriage of this action 1350
  Rode on his tide. Go tell him this, and add, 
  That if he overhold his price so much, 
  We'll none of him; but let him, like an engine 
  Not portable, lie under this report: 
  'Bring action hither, this cannot go to war: 1355
  A stirring dwarf we do allowance give 
  Before a sleeping giant.' Tell him so.

• Patroclus. I shall; and bring his answer presently.

[Exit]

• Agamemnon. In second voice we'll not be satisfied; 1360
  We come to speak with him. Ulysses, enter you.

[Exit ULYSSES]

• Ajax. What is he more than another?

• Agamemnon. No more than what he thinks he is.

• Ajax. Is he so much? Do you not think he thinks himself a 1365
  better man than I am?

• Agamemnon. No question.

• Ajax. Will you subscribe his thought, and say he is?

• Agamemnon. No, noble Ajax; you are as strong, as valiant, as 
  wise, no less noble, much more gentle, and altogether 1370
  more tractable.

• Ajax. Why should a man be proud? How doth pride grow? I 
  know not what pride is.

• Agamemnon. Your mind is the clearer, Ajax, and your virtues the 
  fairer. He that is proud eats up himself: pride is 1375
  his own glass, his own trumpet, his own chronicle; 
  and whatever praises itself but in the deed, devours 
  the deed in the praise.

• Ajax. I do hate a proud man, as I hate the engendering of toads.

• Nestor. Yet he loves himself: is't not strange?1380

[Aside]

[Re-enter ULYSSES]

• Ulysses. Achilles will not to the field to-morrow.

• Agamemnon. What's his excuse?

• Ulysses. He doth rely on none, 1385
  But carries on the stream of his dispose 
  Without observance or respect of any, 
  In will peculiar and in self-admission.

• Agamemnon. Why will he not upon our fair request 
  Untent his person and share the air with us?1390

• Ulysses. Things small as nothing, for request's sake only, 
  He makes important: possess'd he is with greatness, 
  And speaks not to himself but with a pride 
  That quarrels at self-breath: imagined worth 
  Holds in his blood such swoln and hot discourse 1395
  That 'twixt his mental and his active parts 
  Kingdom'd Achilles in commotion rages 
  And batters down himself: what should I say? 
  He is so plaguy proud that the death-tokens of it 
  Cry 'No recovery.'AGAMEMNON. Let Ajax go to him. 1400
  Dear lord, go you and greet him in his tent: 
  'Tis said he holds you well, and will be led 
  At your request a little from himself.

• Ulysses. O Agamemnon, let it not be so! 
  We'll consecrate the steps that Ajax makes 1405
  When they go from Achilles: shall the proud lord 
  That bastes his arrogance with his own seam 
  And never suffers matter of the world 
  Enter his thoughts, save such as do revolve 
  And ruminate himself, shall he be worshipp'd 1410
  Of that we hold an idol more than he? 
  No, this thrice worthy and right valiant lord 
  Must not so stale his palm, nobly acquired; 
  Nor, by my will, assubjugate his merit, 
  As amply titled as Achilles is, 1415
  By going to Achilles: 
  That were to enlard his fat already pride 
  And add more coals to Cancer when he burns 
  With entertaining great Hyperion. 
  This lord go to him! Jupiter forbid, 1420
  And say in thunder 'Achilles go to him.'

• Nestor. [Aside to DIOMEDES] O, this is well; he rubs the 
  vein of him.

• Diomedes. [Aside to NESTOR] And how his silence drinks up 
  this applause!1425

• Ajax. If I go to him, with my armed fist I'll pash him o'er the face.

• Agamemnon. O, no, you shall not go.

• Ajax. An a' be proud with me, I'll pheeze his pride: 
  Let me go to him.

• Ulysses. Not for the worth that hangs upon our quarrel.1430

• Ajax. A paltry, insolent fellow!

• Nestor. How he describes himself!

• Ajax. Can he not be sociable?

• Ulysses. The raven chides blackness.

• Ajax. I'll let his humours blood.1435

• Agamemnon. He will be the physician that should be the patient.

• Ajax. An all men were o' my mind,"”

• Ulysses. Wit would be out of fashion.

• Ajax. A' should not bear it so, a' should eat swords first: 
  shall pride carry it?1440

• Nestor. An 'twould, you'ld carry half.

• Ulysses. A' would have ten shares.

• Ajax. I will knead him; I'll make him supple.

• Nestor. He's not yet through warm: force him with praises: 
  pour in, pour in; his ambition is dry.1445

• Ulysses. [To AGAMEMNON] My lord, you feed too much on this dislike.

• Nestor. Our noble general, do not do so.

• Diomedes. You must prepare to fight without Achilles.

• Ulysses. Why, 'tis this naming of him does him harm. 
  Here is a man"”but 'tis before his face; 1450
  I will be silent.

• Nestor. Wherefore should you so? 
  He is not emulous, as Achilles is.

• Ulysses. Know the whole world, he is as valiant.

• Ajax. A whoreson dog, that shall pelter thus with us! 1455
  Would he were a Trojan!

• Nestor. What a vice were it in Ajax now,"”

• Ulysses. If he were proud,"”

• Diomedes. Or covetous of praise,"”

• Ulysses. Ay, or surly borne,"”1460

• Diomedes. Or strange, or self-affected!

• Ulysses. Thank the heavens, lord, thou art of sweet composure; 
  Praise him that got thee, she that gave thee suck: 
  Famed be thy tutor, and thy parts of nature 
  Thrice famed, beyond all erudition: 1465
  But he that disciplined thy arms to fight, 
  Let Mars divide eternity in twain, 
  And give him half: and, for thy vigour, 
  Bull-bearing Milo his addition yield 
  To sinewy Ajax. I will not praise thy wisdom, 1470
  Which, like a bourn, a pale, a shore, confines 
  Thy spacious and dilated parts: here's Nestor; 
  Instructed by the antiquary times, 
  He must, he is, he cannot but be wise: 
  Put pardon, father Nestor, were your days 1475
  As green as Ajax' and your brain so temper'd, 
  You should not have the eminence of him, 
  But be as Ajax.

• Ajax. Shall I call you father?

• Nestor. Ay, my good son.1480

• Diomedes. Be ruled by him, Lord Ajax.

• Ulysses. There is no tarrying here; the hart Achilles 
  Keeps thicket. Please it our great general 
  To call together all his state of war; 
  Fresh kings are come to Troy: to-morrow 1485
  We must with all our main of power stand fast: 
  And here's a lord,"”come knights from east to west, 
  And cull their flower, Ajax shall cope the best.

• Agamemnon. Go we to council. Let Achilles sleep: 
  Light boats sail swift, though greater hulks draw deep.1490

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

I urge anyone reading this play to acquire the Oxford Edition edited by Kenneth Muir.
 
The reason is that no original text of the 1602 play has ever been found, and what is known as the "First Quarto" was published in 1609, and even that was not anything definitive.
 
Piecing together "Troilus and Cressida" was a project of monumental scope, and you simply cannot buy just any old edition - the foreword in the Oxford Edition is something like 50 pages long, and goes in depth into all the work they did, selecting the very best fits, passage-by-passage, even word-by-word, citing the references for them, and explaining why they did what they did. It is a remarkable piece of scholarly work - it would also be unfathomably boring to read, but it's nice to know the world's leading experts took the time to scrutinize this play, word-for-word, coming up with *the* best choices, and explaining their rationale for choosing them. God only knows how many tens of thousands of hours of labor went into this.
 
Here's an example. In Act 2, Scene 3, Thersites is being his edgy, sardonic self, and comes up with what I believe is the absolute funniest moment in the scene. In giving his opinions of the Greek commanders (whom he's standing there talking with), the dialogue is as follows:

• Thersites. I'll decline the whole question. Agamemnon commands 1265
  Achilles; Achilles is my lord; I am Patroclus' 
  knower, and Patroclus is a fool.

• Patroclus. You rascal!

• Thersites. Peace, fool! I have not done.

• Achilles. He is a privileged man. Proceed, Thersites.1270

• Thersites. Agamemnon is a fool; Achilles is a fool; Thersites 
  is a fool, and, as aforesaid, Patroclus is a fool.

• Achilles. Derive this; come.

• Thersites. Agamemnon is a fool to offer to command Achilles; 
  Achilles is a fool to be commanded of Agamemnon; 
  Thersites is a fool to serve such a fool, and 
  Patroclus is a fool positive.

• Patroclus. Why am I a fool?

• Thersites. Make that demand of thy Creator.

That is some seriously funny stuff. However, in line 1279 of the version I'm copying into this post, the final two words are changed into something much less funny (have a look up above). You could almost gloss over it without having a chuckle. On the page notes, the Oxford Edition writes several sentences as to why they chose "thy Creator" instead of "the prover," and it just works *so* much better - it's so much more modern and funny.
 
So go out of your way to get the Oxford Edition if you can find it. It's little things like this that make the difference between "good" and "great." I'm only fully realizing this as I'm getting deeper into the play.

(And I suspect "prover" is of the same sense as "Aberdeen Proving Ground," just off Exit 85 on I-95 in Maryland.)

[DonRocks]

Act III, Scene 1

Troy. Priam's palace.

       

[Enter a Servant and PANDARUS]

• Pandarus. Friend, you! pray you, a word: do not you follow 
  the young Lord Paris?

• Servant. Ay, sir, when he goes before me.1495

• Pandarus. You depend upon him, I mean?

• Servant. Sir, I do depend upon the lord.

• Pandarus. You depend upon a noble gentleman; I must needs 
  praise him.

• Servant. The lord be praised!1500

• Pandarus. You know me, do you not?

• Servant. Faith, sir, superficially.

• Pandarus. Friend, know me better; I am the Lord Pandarus.

• Servant. I hope I shall know your honour better.

• Pandarus. I do desire it.1505

• Servant. You are in the state of grace.

• Pandarus. Grace! not so, friend: honour and lordship are my titles. 
  [Music within] 
  What music is this?

• Servant. I do but partly know, sir: it is music in parts.1510

• Pandarus. Know you the musicians?

• Servant. Wholly, sir.

• Pandarus. Who play they to?

• Servant. To the hearers, sir.

• Pandarus. At whose pleasure, friend1515

• Servant. At mine, sir, and theirs that love music.

• Pandarus. Command, I mean, friend.

• Servant. Who shall I command, sir?

• Pandarus. Friend, we understand not one another: I am too 
  courtly and thou art too cunning. At whose request 1520
  do these men play?

• Servant. That's to 't indeed, sir: marry, sir, at the request 
  of Paris my lord, who's there in person; with him, 
  the mortal Venus, the heart-blood of beauty, love's 
  invisible soul,"”1525

• Pandarus. Who, my cousin Cressida?

• Servant. No, sir, Helen: could you not find out that by her 
  attributes?

• Pandarus. It should seem, fellow, that thou hast not seen the 
  Lady Cressida. I come to speak with Paris from the 1530
  Prince Troilus: I will make a complimental assault 
  upon him, for my business seethes.

• Servant. Sodden business! there's a stewed phrase indeed!

[Enter PARIS and HELEN, attended]

• Pandarus. Fair be to you, my lord, and to all this fair 1535
  company! fair desires, in all fair measure, 
  fairly guide them! especially to you, fair queen! 
  fair thoughts be your fair pillow!

• Helen. Dear lord, you are full of fair words.

• Pandarus. You speak your fair pleasure, sweet queen. Fair 1540
  prince, here is good broken music.

• Paris. You have broke it, cousin: and, by my life, you 
  shall make it whole again; you shall piece it out 
  with a piece of your performance. Nell, he is full 
  of harmony.1545

• Pandarus. Truly, lady, no.

• Helen. O, sir,"”

• Pandarus. Rude, in sooth; in good sooth, very rude.

• Paris. Well said, my lord! well, you say so in fits.

• Pandarus. I have business to my lord, dear queen. My lord, 1550
  will you vouchsafe me a word?

• Helen. Nay, this shall not hedge us out: we'll hear you 
  sing, certainly.

• Pandarus. Well, sweet queen. you are pleasant with me. But, 
  marry, thus, my lord: my dear lord and most esteemed 1555
  friend, your brother Troilus,"”

• Helen. My Lord Pandarus; honey-sweet lord,"”

• Pandarus. Go to, sweet queen, to go:"”commends himself most 
  affectionately to you,"”

• Helen. You shall not bob us out of our melody: if you do, 1560
  our melancholy upon your head!

• Pandarus. Sweet queen, sweet queen! that's a sweet queen, i' faith.

• Helen. And to make a sweet lady sad is a sour offence.

• Pandarus. Nay, that shall not serve your turn; that shall not, 
  in truth, la. Nay, I care not for such words; no, 1565
  no. And, my lord, he desires you, that if the king 
  call for him at supper, you will make his excuse.

• Helen. My Lord Pandarus,"”

• Pandarus. What says my sweet queen, my very very sweet queen?

• Paris. What exploit's in hand? where sups he to-night?1570

• Helen. Nay, but, my lord,"”

• Pandarus. What says my sweet queen? My cousin will fall out 
  with you. You must not know where he sups.

• Paris. I'll lay my life, with my disposer Cressida.

• Pandarus. No, no, no such matter; you are wide: come, your 1575
  disposer is sick.

• Paris. Well, I'll make excuse.

• Pandarus. Ay, good my lord. Why should you say Cressida? no, 
  your poor disposer's sick.

• Paris. I spy.1580

• Pandarus. You spy! what do you spy? Come, give me an 
  instrument. Now, sweet queen.

• Helen. Why, this is kindly done.

• Pandarus. My niece is horribly in love with a thing you have, 
  sweet queen.1585

• Helen. She shall have it, my lord, if it be not my lord Paris.

• Pandarus. He! no, she'll none of him; they two are twain.

• Helen. Falling in, after falling out, may make them three.

• Pandarus. Come, come, I'll hear no more of this; I'll sing 
  you a song now.1590

• Helen. Ay, ay, prithee now. By my troth, sweet lord, thou 
  hast a fine forehead.

• Pandarus. Ay, you may, you may.

• Helen. Let thy song be love: this love will undo us all. 
  O Cupid, Cupid, Cupid!1595

• Pandarus. Love! ay, that it shall, i' faith.

• Paris. Ay, good now, love, love, nothing but love.

• Pandarus. In good troth, it begins so. 
  [sings] 
  Love, love, nothing but love, still more! 1600
  For, O, love's bow 
  Shoots buck and doe: 
  The shaft confounds, 
  Not that it wounds, 
  But tickles still the sore. 1605
  These lovers cry Oh! oh! they die! 
  Yet that which seems the wound to kill, 
  Doth turn oh! oh! to ha! ha! he! 
  So dying love lives still: 
  Oh! oh! a while, but ha! ha! ha! 1610
  Oh! oh! groans out for ha! ha! ha! 
  Heigh-ho!

• Helen. In love, i' faith, to the very tip of the nose.

• Paris. He eats nothing but doves, love, and that breeds hot 
  blood, and hot blood begets hot thoughts, and hot 1615
  thoughts beget hot deeds, and hot deeds is love.

• Pandarus. Is this the generation of love? hot blood, hot 
  thoughts, and hot deeds? Why, they are vipers: 
  is love a generation of vipers? Sweet lord, who's 
  a-field to-day?1620

• Paris. Hector, Deiphobus, Helenus, Antenor, and all the 
  gallantry of Troy: I would fain have armed to-day, 
  but my Nell would not have it so. How chance my 
  brother Troilus went not?

• Helen. He hangs the lip at something: you know all, Lord Pandarus.1625

• Pandarus. Not I, honey-sweet queen. I long to hear how they 
  sped to-day. You'll remember your brother's excuse?

• Paris. To a hair.

• Pandarus. Farewell, sweet queen.

• Helen. Commend me to your niece.1630

• Pandarus. I will, sweet queen.

[Exit]

[A retreat sounded]

• Paris. They're come from field: let us to Priam's hall, 
  To greet the warriors. Sweet Helen, I must woo you 1635
  To help unarm our Hector: his stubborn buckles, 
  With these your white enchanting fingers touch'd, 
  Shall more obey than to the edge of steel 
  Or force of Greekish sinews; you shall do more 
  Than all the island kings,"”disarm great Hector.1640

• Helen. 'Twill make us proud to be his servant, Paris; 
  Yea, what he shall receive of us in duty 
  Gives us more palm in beauty than we have, 
  Yea, overshines ourself.

• Paris. Sweet, above thought I love thee.1645

[Exeunt]

 

 

[DonRocks]

I purchased my book in London in 2003, and began it about ten times before putting it down each time, and Act 3, Scene 1 is one of the reasons why. In my book, there are dog-ears on every page of this short chapter. Each time, it went something like this: I'd read a few sentences, fold the page, put the book down. Pick it up a few days later, read a few lines, say "I can't do it," fold the page, put the book down, etc.

I'm going to break down and read a plot summary for this scene because I just don't understand why it exists. It's boring, it's filler, and it's exit material, at least it has been for me in the past. I finished it this time, but I didn't like it.

I would be delighted to hear someone who appreciates this scene more than I do discuss it in depth.

Here's a plot synopsis written in a modern voice. <--- This isn't a bad website to visit to take some of the tedium out of the play.

[DIShGo]

I don't see any meat in this scene. It seemed to me like nothing more than a bit of "comic" relief about the pandering of Pandarus.

I think if you saw a live performance of this scene, the music would enhance it. Aside from that, unless someone out there sees something that we both missed (which is entirely possible) I say, let's move on!

[DonRocks]

I don't see any meat in this scene. It seemed to me like nothing more than a bit of "comic" relief about the pandering of Pandarus.

I think if you saw a live performance of this scene, the music would enhance it. Aside from that, unless someone out there sees something that we both missed (which is entirely possible) I say, let's move on!

You could make a solid case for Pandarus having laid the foundation for the entirety of punk rock with the last line of his song (line 1612), in which case this would be one of the most culturally relevant scenes Shakespeare ever wrote.

[DonRocks]

Act III, Scene 2

The same. Pandarus' orchard.

       

[Enter PANDARUS and Troilus's Boy, meeting]

• Pandarus. How now! where's thy master? at my cousin 
  Cressida's?

• Boy. No, sir; he stays for you to conduct him thither.1650

• Pandarus. O, here he comes. 
  [Enter TROILUS] 
  How now, how now!

• Troilus. Sirrah, walk off.

[Exit Boy]

• Pandarus. Have you seen my cousin?

• Troilus. No, Pandarus: I stalk about her door, 
  Like a strange soul upon the Stygian banks 
  Staying for waftage. O, be thou my Charon, 
  And give me swift transportance to those fields 1660
  Where I may wallow in the lily-beds 
  Proposed for the deserver! O gentle Pandarus, 
  From Cupid's shoulder pluck his painted wings 
  And fly with me to Cressid!

• Pandarus. Walk here i' the orchard, I'll bring her straight.1665

[Exit]

• Troilus. I am giddy; expectation whirls me round. 
  The imaginary relish is so sweet 
  That it enchants my sense: what will it be, 
  When that the watery palate tastes indeed 1670
  Love's thrice repured nectar? death, I fear me, 
  Swooning destruction, or some joy too fine, 
  Too subtle-potent, tuned too sharp in sweetness, 
  For the capacity of my ruder powers: 
  I fear it much; and I do fear besides, 1675
  That I shall lose distinction in my joys; 
  As doth a battle, when they charge on heaps 
  The enemy flying.

[Re-enter PANDARUS]

• Pandarus. She's making her ready, she'll come straight: you 1680
  must be witty now. She does so blush, and fetches 
  her wind so short, as if she were frayed with a 
  sprite: I'll fetch her. It is the prettiest 
  villain: she fetches her breath as short as a 
  new-ta'en sparrow.1685

[Exit]

• Troilus. Even such a passion doth embrace my bosom: 
  My heart beats thicker than a feverous pulse; 
  And all my powers do their bestowing lose, 
  Like vassalage at unawares encountering 1690
  The eye of majesty.

[Re-enter PANDARUS with CRESSIDA]

• Pandarus. Come, come, what need you blush? shame's a baby. 
  Here she is now: swear the oaths now to her that 
  you have sworn to me. What, are you gone again? 1695
  you must be watched ere you be made tame, must you? 
  Come your ways, come your ways; an you draw backward, 
  we'll put you i' the fills. Why do you not speak to 
  her? Come, draw this curtain, and let's see your 
  picture. Alas the day, how loath you are to offend 1700
  daylight! an 'twere dark, you'ld close sooner. 
  So, so; rub on, and kiss the mistress. How now! 
  a kiss in fee-farm! build there, carpenter; the air 
  is sweet. Nay, you shall fight your hearts out ere 
  I part you. The falcon as the tercel, for all the 1705
  ducks i' the river: go to, go to.

• Troilus. You have bereft me of all words, lady.

• Pandarus. Words pay no debts, give her deeds: but she'll 
  bereave you o' the deeds too, if she call your 
  activity in question. What, billing again? Here's 1710
  'In witness whereof the parties interchangeably'"” 
  Come in, come in: I'll go get a fire.

[Exit]

• Cressida. Will you walk in, my lord?

• Troilus. O Cressida, how often have I wished me thus!1715

• Cressida. Wished, my lord! The gods grant,"”O my lord!

• Troilus. What should they grant? what makes this pretty 
  abruption? What too curious dreg espies my sweet 
  lady in the fountain of our love?

• Cressida. More dregs than water, if my fears have eyes.1720

• Troilus. Fears make devils of cherubims; they never see truly.

• Cressida. Blind fear, that seeing reason leads, finds safer 
  footing than blind reason stumbling without fear: to 
  fear the worst oft cures the worse.

• Troilus. O, let my lady apprehend no fear: in all Cupid's 1725
  pageant there is presented no monster.

• Cressida. Nor nothing monstrous neither?

• Troilus. Nothing, but our undertakings; when we vow to weep 
  seas, live in fire, eat rocks, tame tigers; thinking 
  it harder for our mistress to devise imposition 1730
  enough than for us to undergo any difficulty imposed. 
  This is the monstruosity in love, lady, that the will 
  is infinite and the execution confined, that the 
  desire is boundless and the act a slave to limit.

• Cressida. They say all lovers swear more performance than they 1735
  are able and yet reserve an ability that they never 
  perform, vowing more than the perfection of ten and 
  discharging less than the tenth part of one. They 
  that have the voice of lions and the act of hares, 
  are they not monsters?1740

• Troilus. Are there such? such are not we: praise us as we 
  are tasted, allow us as we prove; our head shall go 
  bare till merit crown it: no perfection in reversion 
  shall have a praise in present: we will not name 
  desert before his birth, and, being born, his addition 1745
  shall be humble. Few words to fair faith: Troilus 
  shall be such to Cressid as what envy can say worst 
  shall be a mock for his truth, and what truth can 
  speak truest not truer than Troilus.

• Cressida. Will you walk in, my lord?1750

[Re-enter PANDARUS]

• Pandarus. What, blushing still? have you not done talking yet?

• Cressida. Well, uncle, what folly I commit, I dedicate to you.

• Pandarus. I thank you for that: if my lord get a boy of you, 
  you'll give him me. Be true to my lord: if he 1755
  flinch, chide me for it.

• Troilus. You know now your hostages; your uncle's word and my 
  firm faith.

• Pandarus. Nay, I'll give my word for her too: our kindred, 
  though they be long ere they are wooed, they are 1760
  constant being won: they are burs, I can tell you; 
  they'll stick where they are thrown.

• Cressida. Boldness comes to me now, and brings me heart. 
  Prince Troilus, I have loved you night and day 
  For many weary months.1765

• Troilus. Why was my Cressid then so hard to win?

• Cressida. Hard to seem won: but I was won, my lord, 
  With the first glance that ever"”pardon me"” 
  If I confess much, you will play the tyrant. 
  I love you now; but not, till now, so much 1770
  But I might master it: in faith, I lie; 
  My thoughts were like unbridled children, grown 
  Too headstrong for their mother. See, we fools! 
  Why have I blabb'd? who shall be true to us, 
  When we are so unsecret to ourselves? 1775
  But, though I loved you well, I woo'd you not; 
  And yet, good faith, I wish'd myself a man, 
  Or that we women had men's privilege 
  Of speaking first. Sweet, bid me hold my tongue, 
  For in this rapture I shall surely speak 1780
  The thing I shall repent. See, see, your silence, 
  Cunning in dumbness, from my weakness draws 
  My very soul of counsel! stop my mouth.

• Troilus. And shall, albeit sweet music issues thence.

• Pandarus. Pretty, i' faith.1785

• Cressida. My lord, I do beseech you, pardon me; 
  'Twas not my purpose, thus to beg a kiss: 
  I am ashamed. O heavens! what have I done? 
  For this time will I take my leave, my lord.

• Troilus. Your leave, sweet Cressid!1790

• Pandarus. Leave! an you take leave till to-morrow morning,"”

• Cressida. Pray you, content you.

• Troilus. What offends you, lady?

• Cressida. Sir, mine own company.

• Troilus. You cannot shun Yourself.1795

• Cressida. Let me go and try: 
  I have a kind of self resides with you; 
  But an unkind self, that itself will leave, 
  To be another's fool. I would be gone: 
  Where is my wit? I know not what I speak.1800

• Troilus. Well know they what they speak that speak so wisely.

• Cressida. Perchance, my lord, I show more craft than love; 
  And fell so roundly to a large confession, 
  To angle for your thoughts: but you are wise, 
  Or else you love not, for to be wise and love 1805
  Exceeds man's might; that dwells with gods above.

• Troilus. O that I thought it could be in a woman"” 
  As, if it can, I will presume in you"” 
  To feed for aye her ramp and flames of love; 
  To keep her constancy in plight and youth, 1810
  Outliving beauty's outward, with a mind 
  That doth renew swifter than blood decays! 
  Or that persuasion could but thus convince me, 
  That my integrity and truth to you 
  Might be affronted with the match and weight 1815
  Of such a winnow'd purity in love; 
  How were I then uplifted! but, alas! 
  I am as true as truth's simplicity 
  And simpler than the infancy of truth.

• Cressida. In that I'll war with you.1820

• Troilus. O virtuous fight, 
  When right with right wars who shall be most right! 
  True swains in love shall in the world to come 
  Approve their truths by Troilus: when their rhymes, 
  Full of protest, of oath and big compare, 1825
  Want similes, truth tired with iteration, 
  As true as steel, as plantage to the moon, 
  As sun to day, as turtle to her mate, 
  As iron to adamant, as earth to the centre, 
  Yet, after all comparisons of truth, 1830
  As truth's authentic author to be cited, 
  'As true as Troilus' shall crown up the verse, 
  And sanctify the numbers.

• Cressida. Prophet may you be! 
  If I be false, or swerve a hair from truth, 1835
  When time is old and hath forgot itself, 
  When waterdrops have worn the stones of Troy, 
  And blind oblivion swallow'd cities up, 
  And mighty states characterless are grated 
  To dusty nothing, yet let memory, 1840
  From false to false, among false maids in love, 
  Upbraid my falsehood! when they've said 'as false 
  As air, as water, wind, or sandy earth, 
  As fox to lamb, as wolf to heifer's calf, 
  Pard to the hind, or stepdame to her son,' 1845
  'Yea,' let them say, to stick the heart of falsehood, 
  'As false as Cressid.'

• Pandarus. Go to, a bargain made: seal it, seal it; I'll be the 
  witness. Here I hold your hand, here my cousin's. 
  If ever you prove false one to another, since I have 1850
  taken such pains to bring you together, let all 
  pitiful goers-between be called to the world's end 
  after my name; call them all Pandars; let all 
  constant men be Troiluses, all false women Cressids, 
  and all brokers-between Pandars! say, amen.1855

• Troilus. Amen.

• Cressida. Amen.

• Pandarus. Amen. Whereupon I will show you a chamber with a 
  bed; which bed, because it shall not speak of your 
  pretty encounters, press it to death: away! 1860
  And Cupid grant all tongue-tied maidens here 
  Bed, chamber, Pandar to provide this gear!

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

You could make a solid case for Pandarus having laid the foundation for the entirety of punk rock with the last line of his song (line 1612), in which case this would be one of the most culturally relevant scenes Shakespeare ever wrote.

 Humorless twits.

---

Unlike 3.1, 3.2 is a wonderful scene, and made more so because I had just read Jonathan Franzen's review of Runaway in which he stresses that Alice Munro is about 'people, people, people.'

3.2 had the most Munrovian character development of any scene so far in Troilus and Cressida (and yes I am comparing the two right now).

And, assuming that Pandarus is the origin of the verb "to pander" (and I believe he is), then by definition, that word didn't exist until sometime after this play came out. Essentially, Shakespeare did what I've never seen done before: He controlled and commanded what was to occur in the future (in real life, not in the play) by saying this:

• Pandarus. Go to, a bargain made: seal it, seal it; I'll be the 

  witness. Here I hold your hand, here my cousin's.

  If ever you prove false one to another, since I have 1850

  taken such pains to bring you together, let all

  pitiful goers-between be called to the world's end

  after my name; call them all Pandars; let all

  constant men be Troiluses, all false women Cressids,

  and all brokers-between Pandars! say, amen.1855

This was an authorial feat of such epic proportions that I don't even know what to call it.

Also, the importance of this scene cannot be overstated, as it's the first time Troilus and Cressida are together onstage, their chemistry is established, and the reader is taken another level deeper into both of their minds.

[DIShGo]

Finally, the two lovers are on stage together! Its about time!

It's interesting that you compare this scene to Munro. Cressida's self-conscious ramblings are similar to the thoughts that run through the minds of Munro's characters.

But, though I loved you well, I woo'd you not;

And yet, good faith, I wish'd myself a man, 

Or that we women had men's privilege 

Of speaking first. Sweet, bid me hold my tongue, 

For in this rapture I shall surely speak 1780

The thing I shall repent. See, see, your silence, 

Cunning in dumbness, from my weakness draws 

My very soul of counsel! stop my mouth.

Cressida wants Troilus to know she has been thinking about him, but then she chastises herself for revealing too much. Munro's characters frequently were at odds with how they felt and how they felt society expected them to behave.

From everything I have read, the current meaning of the word pander did originate with Pandarus, so that definitely is something worth noting.

[DonRocks]

Act III, Scene 3

The Grecian camp. Before Achilles' tent.

       

[Enter AGAMEMNON, ULYSSES, DIOMEDES, NESTOR, AJAX,] [p]MENELAUS, and CALCHAS]

• Calchas. Now, princes, for the service I have done you, 
  The advantage of the time prompts me aloud 
  To call for recompense. Appear it to your mind 
  That, through the sight I bear in things to love, 
  I have abandon'd Troy, left my possession, 1870
  Incurr'd a traitor's name; exposed myself, 
  From certain and possess'd conveniences, 
  To doubtful fortunes; sequestering from me all 
  That time, acquaintance, custom and condition 
  Made tame and most familiar to my nature, 1875
  And here, to do you service, am become 
  As new into the world, strange, unacquainted: 
  I do beseech you, as in way of taste, 
  To give me now a little benefit, 
  Out of those many register'd in promise, 1880
  Which, you say, live to come in my behalf.

• Agamemnon. What wouldst thou of us, Trojan? make demand.

• Calchas. You have a Trojan prisoner, call'd Antenor, 
  Yesterday took: Troy holds him very dear. 
  Oft have you"”often have you thanks therefore"” 1885
  Desired my Cressid in right great exchange, 
  Whom Troy hath still denied: but this Antenor, 
  I know, is such a wrest in their affairs 
  That their negotiations all must slack, 
  Wanting his manage; and they will almost 1890
  Give us a prince of blood, a son of Priam, 
  In change of him: let him be sent, great princes, 
  And he shall buy my daughter; and her presence 
  Shall quite strike off all service I have done, 
  In most accepted pain.1895

• Agamemnon. Let Diomedes bear him, 
  And bring us Cressid hither: Calchas shall have 
  What he requests of us. Good Diomed, 
  Furnish you fairly for this interchange: 
  Withal bring word if Hector will to-morrow 1900
  Be answer'd in his challenge: Ajax is ready.

• Diomedes. This shall I undertake; and 'tis a burden 
  Which I am proud to bear.

[Exeunt DIOMEDES and CALCHAS]

[Enter ACHILLES and PATROCLUS, before their tent]

• Ulysses. Achilles stands i' the entrance of his tent: 
  Please it our general to pass strangely by him, 
  As if he were forgot; and, princes all, 
  Lay negligent and loose regard upon him: 
  I will come last. 'Tis like he'll question me 1910
  Why such unplausive eyes are bent on him: 
  If so, I have derision medicinable, 
  To use between your strangeness and his pride, 
  Which his own will shall have desire to drink: 
  It may be good: pride hath no other glass 1915
  To show itself but pride, for supple knees 
  Feed arrogance and are the proud man's fees.

• Agamemnon. We'll execute your purpose, and put on 
  A form of strangeness as we pass along: 
  So do each lord, and either greet him not, 1920
  Or else disdainfully, which shall shake him more 
  Than if not look'd on. I will lead the way.

• Achilles. What, comes the general to speak with me? 
  You know my mind, I'll fight no more 'gainst Troy.

• Agamemnon. What says Achilles? would he aught with us?1925

• Nestor. Would you, my lord, aught with the general?

• Achilles. No.

• Nestor. Nothing, my lord.

• Agamemnon. The better.

[Exeunt AGAMEMNON and NESTOR]

• Achilles. Good day, good day.

• Menelaus. How do you? how do you?

[Exit]

• Achilles. What, does the cuckold scorn me?

• Ajax. How now, Patroclus!1935

• Achilles. Good morrow, Ajax.

• Ajax. Ha?

• Achilles. Good morrow.

• Ajax. Ay, and good next day too.

[Exit]

• Achilles. What mean these fellows? Know they not Achilles?

• Patroclus. They pass by strangely: they were used to bend 
  To send their smiles before them to Achilles; 
  To come as humbly as they used to creep 
  To holy altars.1945

• Achilles. What, am I poor of late? 
  'Tis certain, greatness, once fall'n out with fortune, 
  Must fall out with men too: what the declined is 
  He shall as soon read in the eyes of others 
  As feel in his own fall; for men, like butterflies, 1950
  Show not their mealy wings but to the summer, 
  And not a man, for being simply man, 
  Hath any honour, but honour for those honours 
  That are without him, as place, riches, favour, 
  Prizes of accident as oft as merit: 1955
  Which when they fall, as being slippery standers, 
  The love that lean'd on them as slippery too, 
  Do one pluck down another and together 
  Die in the fall. But 'tis not so with me: 
  Fortune and I are friends: I do enjoy 1960
  At ample point all that I did possess, 
  Save these men's looks; who do, methinks, find out 
  Something not worth in me such rich beholding 
  As they have often given. Here is Ulysses; 
  I'll interrupt his reading. 1965
  How now Ulysses!

• Ulysses. Now, great Thetis' son!

• Achilles. What are you reading?

• Ulysses. A strange fellow here 
  Writes me: 'That man, how dearly ever parted, 1970
  How much in having, or without or in, 
  Cannot make boast to have that which he hath, 
  Nor feels not what he owes, but by reflection; 
  As when his virtues shining upon others 
  Heat them and they retort that heat again 1975
  To the first giver.'

• Achilles. This is not strange, Ulysses. 
  The beauty that is borne here in the face 
  The bearer knows not, but commends itself 
  To others' eyes; nor doth the eye itself, 1980
  That most pure spirit of sense, behold itself, 
  Not going from itself; but eye to eye opposed 
  Salutes each other with each other's form; 
  For speculation turns not to itself, 
  Till it hath travell'd and is mirror'd there 1985
  Where it may see itself. This is not strange at all.

• Ulysses. I do not strain at the position,"” 
  It is familiar,"”but at the author's drift; 
  Who, in his circumstance, expressly proves 
  That no man is the lord of any thing, 1990
  Though in and of him there be much consisting, 
  Till he communicate his parts to others: 
  Nor doth he of himself know them for aught 
  Till he behold them form'd in the applause 
  Where they're extended; who, like an arch, 1995
  reverberates 
  The voice again, or, like a gate of steel 
  Fronting the sun, receives and renders back 
  His figure and his heat. I was much wrapt in this; 
  And apprehended here immediately 2000
  The unknown Ajax. 
  Heavens, what a man is there! a very horse, 
  That has he knows not what. Nature, what things there are 
  Most abject in regard and dear in use! 
  What things again most dear in the esteem 2005
  And poor in worth! Now shall we see to-morrow"” 
  An act that very chance doth throw upon him"” 
  Ajax renown'd. O heavens, what some men do, 
  While some men leave to do! 
  How some men creep in skittish fortune's hall, 2010
  Whiles others play the idiots in her eyes! 
  How one man eats into another's pride, 
  While pride is fasting in his wantonness! 
  To see these Grecian lords!"”why, even already 
  They clap the lubber Ajax on the shoulder, 2015
  As if his foot were on brave Hector's breast 
  And great Troy shrieking.

• Achilles. I do believe it; for they pass'd by me 
  As misers do by beggars, neither gave to me 
  Good word nor look: what, are my deeds forgot?2020

• Ulysses. Time hath, my lord, a wallet at his back, 
  Wherein he puts alms for oblivion, 
  A great-sized monster of ingratitudes: 
  Those scraps are good deeds past; which are devour'd 
  As fast as they are made, forgot as soon 2025
  As done: perseverance, dear my lord, 
  Keeps honour bright: to have done is to hang 
  Quite out of fashion, like a rusty mail 
  In monumental mockery. Take the instant way; 
  For honour travels in a strait so narrow, 2030
  Where one but goes abreast: keep then the path; 
  For emulation hath a thousand sons 
  That one by one pursue: if you give way, 
  Or hedge aside from the direct forthright, 
  Like to an enter'd tide, they all rush by 2035
  And leave you hindmost; 
  Or like a gallant horse fall'n in first rank, 
  Lie there for pavement to the abject rear, 
  O'er-run and trampled on: then what they do in present, 
  Though less than yours in past, must o'ertop yours; 2040
  For time is like a fashionable host 
  That slightly shakes his parting guest by the hand, 
  And with his arms outstretch'd, as he would fly, 
  Grasps in the comer: welcome ever smiles, 
  And farewell goes out sighing. O, let not 2045
  virtue seek 
  Remuneration for the thing it was; 
  For beauty, wit, 
  High birth, vigour of bone, desert in service, 
  Love, friendship, charity, are subjects all 2050
  To envious and calumniating time. 
  One touch of nature makes the whole world kin, 
  That all with one consent praise new-born gawds, 
  Though they are made and moulded of things past, 
  And give to dust that is a little gilt 2055
  More laud than gilt o'er-dusted. 
  The present eye praises the present object. 
  Then marvel not, thou great and complete man, 
  That all the Greeks begin to worship Ajax; 
  Since things in motion sooner catch the eye 2060
  Than what not stirs. The cry went once on thee, 
  And still it might, and yet it may again, 
  If thou wouldst not entomb thyself alive 
  And case thy reputation in thy tent; 
  Whose glorious deeds, but in these fields of late, 2065
  Made emulous missions 'mongst the gods themselves 
  And drave great Mars to faction.

• Achilles. Of this my privacy 
  I have strong reasons.

• Ulysses. But 'gainst your privacy 2070
  The reasons are more potent and heroical: 
  'Tis known, Achilles, that you are in love 
  With one of Priam's daughters.

• Achilles. Ha! known!

• Ulysses. Is that a wonder? 2075
  The providence that's in a watchful state 
  Knows almost every grain of Plutus' gold, 
  Finds bottom in the uncomprehensive deeps, 
  Keeps place with thought and almost, like the gods, 
  Does thoughts unveil in their dumb cradles. 2080
  There is a mystery"”with whom relation 
  Durst never meddle"”in the soul of state; 
  Which hath an operation more divine 
  Than breath or pen can give expressure to: 
  All the commerce that you have had with Troy 2085
  As perfectly is ours as yours, my lord; 
  And better would it fit Achilles much 
  To throw down Hector than Polyxena: 
  But it must grieve young Pyrrhus now at home, 
  When fame shall in our islands sound her trump, 2090
  And all the Greekish girls shall tripping sing, 
  'Great Hector's sister did Achilles win, 
  But our great Ajax bravely beat down him.' 
  Farewell, my lord: I as your lover speak; 
  The fool slides o'er the ice that you should break.2095

[Exit]

• Patroclus. To this effect, Achilles, have I moved you: 
  A woman impudent and mannish grown 
  Is not more loathed than an effeminate man 
  In time of action. I stand condemn'd for this; 2100
  They think my little stomach to the war 
  And your great love to me restrains you thus: 
  Sweet, rouse yourself; and the weak wanton Cupid 
  Shall from your neck unloose his amorous fold, 
  And, like a dew-drop from the lion's mane, 2105
  Be shook to air.

• Achilles. Shall Ajax fight with Hector?

• Patroclus. Ay, and perhaps receive much honour by him.

• Achilles. I see my reputation is at stake 
  My fame is shrewdly gored.2110

• Patroclus. O, then, beware; 
  Those wounds heal ill that men do give themselves: 
  Omission to do what is necessary 
  Seals a commission to a blank of danger; 
  And danger, like an ague, subtly taints 2115
  Even then when we sit idly in the sun.

• Achilles. Go call Thersites hither, sweet Patroclus: 
  I'll send the fool to Ajax and desire him 
  To invite the Trojan lords after the combat 
  To see us here unarm'd: I have a woman's longing, 2120
  An appetite that I am sick withal, 
  To see great Hector in his weeds of peace, 
  To talk with him and to behold his visage, 
  Even to my full of view. 
  [Enter THERSITES] 2125
  A labour saved!

• Thersites. A wonder!

• Achilles. What?

• Thersites. Ajax goes up and down the field, asking for himself.

• Achilles. How so?2130

• Thersites. He must fight singly to-morrow with Hector, and is so 
  prophetically proud of an heroical cudgelling that he 
  raves in saying nothing.

• Achilles. How can that be?

• Thersites. Why, he stalks up and down like a peacock,"”a stride 2135
  and a stand: ruminates like an hostess that hath no 
  arithmetic but her brain to set down her reckoning: 
  bites his lip with a politic regard, as who should 
  say 'There were wit in this head, an 'twould out;' 
  and so there is, but it lies as coldly in him as fire 2140
  in a flint, which will not show without knocking. 
  The man's undone forever; for if Hector break not his 
  neck i' the combat, he'll break 't himself in 
  vain-glory. He knows not me: I said 'Good morrow, 
  Ajax;' and he replies 'Thanks, Agamemnon.' What think 2145
  you of this man that takes me for the general? He's 
  grown a very land-fish, language-less, a monster. 
  A plague of opinion! a man may wear it on both 
  sides, like a leather jerkin.

• Achilles. Thou must be my ambassador to him, Thersites.2150

• Thersites. Who, I? why, he'll answer nobody; he professes not 
  answering: speaking is for beggars; he wears his 
  tongue in's arms. I will put on his presence: let 
  Patroclus make demands to me, you shall see the 
  pageant of Ajax.2155

• Achilles. To him, Patroclus; tell him I humbly desire the 
  valiant Ajax to invite the most valorous Hector 
  to come unarmed to my tent, and to procure 
  safe-conduct for his person of the magnanimous 
  and most illustrious six-or-seven-times-honoured 2160
  captain-general of the Grecian army, Agamemnon, 
  et cetera. Do this.

• Patroclus. Jove bless great Ajax!

• Thersites. Hum!

• Patroclus. I come from the worthy Achilles,"”2165

• Thersites. Ha!

• Patroclus. Who most humbly desires you to invite Hector to his tent,"”

• Thersites. Hum!

• Patroclus. And to procure safe-conduct from Agamemnon.

• Thersites. Agamemnon!2170

• Patroclus. Ay, my lord.

• Thersites. Ha!

• Patroclus. What say you to't?

• Thersites. God b' wi' you, with all my heart.

• Patroclus. Your answer, sir.2175

• Thersites. If to-morrow be a fair day, by eleven o'clock it will 
  go one way or other: howsoever, he shall pay for me 
  ere he has me.

• Patroclus. Your answer, sir.

• Thersites. Fare you well, with all my heart.2180

• Achilles. Why, but he is not in this tune, is he?

• Thersites. No, but he's out o' tune thus. What music will be in 
  him when Hector has knocked out his brains, I know 
  not; but, I am sure, none, unless the fiddler Apollo 
  get his sinews to make catlings on.2185

• Achilles. Come, thou shalt bear a letter to him straight.

• Thersites. Let me bear another to his horse; for that's the more 
  capable creature.

• Achilles. My mind is troubled, like a fountain stirr'd; 
  And I myself see not the bottom of it.2190

[Exeunt ACHILLES and PATROCLUS]

• Thersites. Would the fountain of your mind were clear again, 
  that I might water an ass at it! I had rather be a 
  tick in a sheep than such a valiant ignorance.

[Exit]

[DIShGo]

I enjoyed this scene. I feel like we are getting into the meat of the play. This scene has humor, drama, foreshadowing and philosophical musings.

I liked Ulysses' speech about how a person cannot see himself until he gives to others and then his worth is reflected back through his actions. I enjoyed his thoughts on how people latch on to the latest thing, forgetting past good deeds and remembering whatever is attracting the most attention at the moment. I thought this speech was very applicable to our times.

I didn't like the way Cressida's father offered her up so quickly. I assumed he would have been badgered and tormented about it. Instead, he offered her up on a silver platter without even being asked.

[DonRocks]

I enjoyed this scene. I feel like we are getting into the meat of the play. This scene has humor, drama, foreshadowing and philosophical musings.

I liked Ulysses' speech about how a person cannot see himself until he gives to others and then his worth is reflected back through his actions. I enjoyed his thoughts on how people latch on to the latest thing, forgetting past good deeds and remembering whatever is attracting the most attention at the moment. I thought this speech was very applicable to our times.

I didn't like the way Cressida's father offered her up so quickly. I assumed he would have been badgered and tormented about it. Instead, he offered her up on a silver platter without even being asked.

I loved Ulysses' speech, and also feel that it resonates very clearly in modern times - more than you might possibly imagine in the restaurant world, actually. Hence, the popularity of some very vacuous websites.

My favorite part of the speech (*) was in line 2049 - the word "desert" which can mean any of three things in this situation:

1) dessert (something sweet)

2) desert (an arid place)

3) desert (going AWOL)

I suspect that was done deliberately (it's also in my edition, and is brilliant).

Since you enjoyed the scene so much, maybe you can explain to me what in the heck the part with Thersites was all about - why does Achilles want Hector to come over for tea, and why did Patroclus end up doing the talking? I've read through it twice, and feel as dimwitted as, well, Ajax.

(*) Certain things stand out to certain people, and I suspect "desert" stood out to me and me only - this is why I want to have a general discussion, so others can share their unearthed treasures. This is not easy reading, and more of it escapes me than not (lines 2184-2185 are a perfect example: "catlings" are cat gut (used for musical instrument strings), and "Apollo" was obviously the Greek God of the Sun, but why him? (One of the nice things about copying the text online is the ability to search for terms - Apollo has been used four times so far.))

[DIShGo]

Achilles has become a pacifist because of his love for Polyxena, king Priam's youngest daughter, and Troilus' sister. In Greek mythology, he tells her about his vulnerable heel, and he is killed by her brothers because of it.

I think Ulysses and Patroclus are appealing to Achilles' wounded ego to try to get him interested in the war instead of love. They are both playing up how beloved Ajax has become while he, Achilles, is being forgotten. Perhaps Achilles desire to sit peacefully with Hector shows how he is more interested in his Trojan love than winning the war.

As for the to reference Apollo, I think he was mentioned here because he is the god of music and poetry, and the lyre was supposedly created for him. It is interesting to note, however, that in Greek mythology, Achilles is ambushed and killed by Polxena's brothers at the temple of Apollo.

At line 2163 in my book, it says, in italics before the dialogue, {to Thersites who is playing Ajax,}. Then, at line 2180, it says, {he pretends to exit.} This exchange is a little play within the play in which Patroclus and Thersites poke fun at the dimwitted Ajax.

[DIShGo]

My favorite part of the speech (*) was in line 2049 - the word "desert" which can mean any of three things in this situation:

1) dessert (something sweet)

2) desert (an arid place)

3) desert (going AWOL)

I suspect that was done deliberately (it's also in my edition, and is brilliant).

I did not notice this, and when I went back and read the passage, it seems to me like meaning number two makes the most sense, if this is a list of positive things for which a person should not seek remuneration. If it refers to military service in a desert, that would be something for which a person might expect adulation.

If he intended all three meanings, do you think Ulysses mentioned desert of service (definition number 3) as a subtle dig at Achilles' reluctance to fight?

and "Apollo" was obviously the Greek God of the Sun, but why him? (One of the nice things about copying the text online is the ability to search for terms - Apollo has been used four times so far.))

I know very little about Greek mythology, but some brief and limited research on the internet showed numerous connections between Achilles' and Troilus' deaths and Apollo.

[DonRocks]

I did not notice this, and when I went back and read the passage, it seems to me like meaning number two makes the most sense, if this is a list of positive things for which a person should not seek remuneration. If it refers to military service in a desert, that would be something for which a person might expect adulation.

If he intended all three meanings, do you think Ulysses mentioned desert of service (definition number 3) as a subtle dig at Achilles' reluctance to fight?

See, if I had to choose only one, I might think 1) - dessert in service, i.e., takes pleasure in military service.

And I think 3) is a not-so-subtle dig at Achilles, absolutely.

As for Apollo, refer to Season 2, Episode 2. He even mentions Hector and Agamemnon.

I once read "Agamemnon" by Aeschylus - I need to figure out a way to tie these two plays together without going back and re-reading it.

[DIShGo]

See, if I had to choose only one, I might think 1) - dessert in service, i.e., takes pleasure in military service.

And I think 3) is a not-so-subtle dig at Achilles, absolutely.

As for Apollo, refer to Season 2, Episode 2. He even mentions Hector and Agamemnon.

I once read "Agamemnon" by Aeschylus - I need to figure out a way to tie these two plays together without going back and re-reading it.

Ah, yes, I see your point about meaning one.

Leave it to you to find a Star Trek connection! 

[DonRocks]

Act IV, Scene 1

Troy. A street.

[Enter, from one side, AENEAS, and Servant with a] [p]torch; from the other, PARIS, DEIPHOBUS, ANTENOR, [p]DIOMEDES, and others, with torches]

• Paris. See, ho! who is that there?

• Deiphobus. It is the Lord AEneas.2200

• Aeneas. Is the prince there in person? 
  Had I so good occasion to lie long 
  As you, prince Paris, nothing but heavenly business 
  Should rob my bed-mate of my company.

• Diomedes. That's my mind too. Good morrow, Lord AEneas.2205

• Paris. A valiant Greek, AEneas,"”take his hand,"” 
  Witness the process of your speech, wherein 
  You told how Diomed, a whole week by days, 
  Did haunt you in the field.

• Aeneas. Health to you, valiant sir, 2210
  During all question of the gentle truce; 
  But when I meet you arm'd, as black defiance 
  As heart can think or courage execute.

• Diomedes. The one and other Diomed embraces. 
  Our bloods are now in calm; and, so long, health! 2215
  But when contention and occasion meet, 
  By Jove, I'll play the hunter for thy life 
  With all my force, pursuit and policy.

• Aeneas. And thou shalt hunt a lion, that will fly 
  With his face backward. In humane gentleness, 2220
  Welcome to Troy! now, by Anchises' life, 
  Welcome, indeed! By Venus' hand I swear, 
  No man alive can love in such a sort 
  The thing he means to kill more excellently.

• Diomedes. We sympathize: Jove, let AEneas live, 2225
  If to my sword his fate be not the glory, 
  A thousand complete courses of the sun! 
  But, in mine emulous honour, let him die, 
  With every joint a wound, and that to-morrow!

• Aeneas. We know each other well.2230

• Diomedes. We do; and long to know each other worse.

• Paris. This is the most despiteful gentle greeting, 
  The noblest hateful love, that e'er I heard of. 
  What business, lord, so early?

• Aeneas. I was sent for to the king; but why, I know not.2235

• Paris. His purpose meets you: 'twas to bring this Greek 
  To Calchas' house, and there to render him, 
  For the enfreed Antenor, the fair Cressid: 
  Let's have your company, or, if you please, 
  Haste there before us: I constantly do think"” 2240
  Or rather, call my thought a certain knowledge"” 
  My brother Troilus lodges there to-night: 
  Rouse him and give him note of our approach. 
  With the whole quality wherefore: I fear 
  We shall be much unwelcome.2245

• Aeneas. That I assure you: 
  Troilus had rather Troy were borne to Greece 
  Than Cressid borne from Troy.

• Paris. There is no help; 
  The bitter disposition of the time 2250
  Will have it so. On, lord; we'll follow you.

• Aeneas. Good morrow, all.

[Exit with Servant]

• Paris. And tell me, noble Diomed, faith, tell me true, 
  Even in the soul of sound good-fellowship, 2255
  Who, in your thoughts, merits fair Helen best, 
  Myself or Menelaus?

• Diomedes. Both alike: 
  He merits well to have her, that doth seek her, 
  Not making any scruple of her soilure, 2260
  With such a hell of pain and world of charge, 
  And you as well to keep her, that defend her, 
  Not palating the taste of her dishonour, 
  With such a costly loss of wealth and friends: 
  He, like a puling cuckold, would drink up 2265
  The lees and dregs of a flat tamed piece; 
  You, like a lecher, out of whorish loins 
  Are pleased to breed out your inheritors: 
  Both merits poised, each weighs nor less nor more; 
  But he as he, the heavier for a whore.2270

• Paris. You are too bitter to your countrywoman.

• Diomedes. She's bitter to her country: hear me, Paris: 
  For every false drop in her bawdy veins 
  A Grecian's life hath sunk; for every scruple 
  Of her contaminated carrion weight, 2275
  A Trojan hath been slain: since she could speak, 
  She hath not given so many good words breath 
  As for her Greeks and Trojans suffer'd death.

• Paris. Fair Diomed, you do as chapmen do, 
  Dispraise the thing th

[DonRocks]

In Act IV, Scene 1, Diomedes says some things in lines 2258-2270 about Helen that will be just as irritating to the modern-day female as certain lines in Othello would be to a modern-day person of color. He is really brutal, and holds nothing back - I'm curious, DIShGo (or porcupine, if you're still with us), if you found this offensive.

This was just the scene I needed - three pages long, easy reading, and packed with plot advancement.

I didn't like the way Cressida's father offered her up so quickly. I assumed he would have been badgered and tormented about it. Instead, he offered her up on a silver platter without even being asked.

 

Going back to Act III Scene III, regarding Calchas offering up his daughter (Cressida) so easily to the Greeks, it's important to do a "Find" on the first occurrence of Calchas on this page, and to remember that he's a traitor, wants his daughter back, and wants her away from Troilus. So I'm not sure he's "offering her up to the Greeks" so much as "trying to get her back" since he's essentially banished from Troy forever.

[DIShGo]

In Act IV, Scene 1, Diomedes says some things in lines 2258-2270 about Helen that will be just as irritating to the modern-day female as certain lines in Othello would be to a modern-day person of color. He is really brutal, and holds nothing back - I'm curious, DIShGo (or porcupine, if you're still with us), if you found this offensive.

This was just the scene I needed - three pages long, easy reading, and packed with plot advancement.

I found it shocking that Diomede spoke this way about the most beautiful woman in the world over whom a war was being waged. His language was extremely descriptive, to-the-point and offensive. While Helen took the brunt of it, he was harsh about Paris and Menelaus as well. I was surprised by Paris' calm reaction--that he didn't jump to defend Helen's honor or himself. Instead, he basically said, "You are just jealous because you can't have her."

Clearly Diomede's speech illustrates how fatigued the soldiers are of this war and that they blame Helen for it.

The way Diomede speaks about Helen, and the way that Helen and Cressida are seen in this play as "things" to be had, stolen and bartered with, makes me appreciate that I do not live in a society where such attitudes still exist, and sad for the women who do.

I enjoyed this scene, too. That's two in a row!

[DIShGo]

Going back to Act III Scene III, regarding Calchas offering up his daughter (Cressida) so easily to the Greeks, it's important to do a "Find" on the first occurrence of Calchas on this page, and to remember that he's a traitor, wants his daughter back, and wants her away from Troilus. So I'm not sure he's "offering her up to the Greeks" so much as "trying to get her back" since he's essentially banished from Troy forever.

Thank you for clearing this up for me. I had forgotten about her father being banished from Troy. Remembering that makes his actions more understandable.

[DonRocks]

Act IV, Scene 2

The same. Court of Pandarus' house.

[Enter TROILUS and CRESSIDA]

• Troilus. Dear, trouble not yourself: the morn is cold.

• Cressida. Then, sweet my lord, I'll call mine uncle down; 
  He shall unbolt the gates.

• Troilus. Trouble him not; 
  To bed, to bed: sleep kill those pretty eyes, 2290
  And give as soft attachment to thy senses 
  As infants' empty of all thought!

• Cressida. Good morrow, then.

• Troilus. I prithee now, to bed.

• Cressida. Are you a-weary of me?2295

• Troilus. O Cressida! but that the busy day, 
  Waked by the lark, hath roused the ribald crows, 
  And dreaming night will hide our joys no longer, 
  I would not from thee.

• Cressida. Night hath been too brief.2300

• Troilus. Beshrew the witch! with venomous wights she stays 
  As tediously as hell, but flies the grasps of love 
  With wings more momentary-swift than thought. 
  You will catch cold, and curse me.

• Cressida. Prithee, tarry: 2305
  You men will never tarry. 
  O foolish Cressid! I might have still held off, 
  And then you would have tarried. Hark! 
  there's one up.

• Pandarus. [Within] What, 's all the doors open here?2310

• Troilus. It is your uncle.

• Cressida. A pestilence on him! now will he be mocking: 
  I shall have such a life!

[Enter PANDARUS]

• Pandarus. How now, how now! how go maidenheads? Here, you 2315
  maid! where's my cousin Cressid?

• Cressida. Go hang yourself, you naughty mocking uncle! 
  You bring me to do, and then you flout me too.

• Pandarus. To do what? to do what? let her say 
  what: what have I brought you to do?2320

• Cressida. Come, come, beshrew your heart! you'll ne'er be good, 
  Nor suffer others.

• Pandarus. Ha! ha! Alas, poor wretch! ah, poor capocchia! 
  hast not slept to-night? would he not, a naughty 
  man, let it sleep? a bugbear take him!2325

• Cressida. Did not I tell you? Would he were knock'd i' the head! 
  [Knocking within] 
  Who's that at door? good uncle, go and see. 
  My lord, come you again into my chamber: 
  You smile and mock me, as if I meant naughtily.2330

• Troilus. Ha, ha!

• Cressida. Come, you are deceived, I think of no such thing. 
  [Knocking within] 
  How earnestly they knock! Pray you, come in: 
  I would not for half Troy have you seen here.2335

[Exeunt TROILUS and CRESSIDA]

• Pandarus. Who's there? what's the matter? will you beat 
  down the door? How now! what's the matter?

[Enter AENEAS]

• Aeneas. Good morrow, lord, good morrow.2340

• Pandarus. Who's there? my Lord AEneas! By my troth, 
  I knew you not: what news with you so early?

• Aeneas. Is not Prince Troilus here?

• Pandarus. Here! what should he do here?

• Aeneas. Come, he is here, my lord; do not deny him: 2345
  It doth import him much to speak with me.

• Pandarus. Is he here, say you? 'tis more than I know, I'll 
  be sworn: for my own part, I came in late. What 
  should he do here?

• Aeneas. Who!"”nay, then: come, come, you'll do him wrong 2350
  ere you're ware: you'll be so true to him, to be 
  false to him: do not you know of him, but yet go 
  fetch him hither; go.

[Re-enter TROILUS]

• Troilus. How now! what's the matter?2355

• Aeneas. My lord, I scarce have leisure to salute you, 
  My matter is so rash: there is at hand 
  Paris your brother, and Deiphobus, 
  The Grecian Diomed, and our Antenor 
  Deliver'd to us; and for him forthwith, 2360
  Ere the first sacrifice, within this hour, 
  We must give up to Diomedes' hand 
  The Lady Cressida.

• Troilus. Is it so concluded?

• Aeneas. By Priam and the general state of Troy: 2365
  They are at hand and ready to effect it.

• Troilus. How my achievements mock me! 
  I will go meet them: and, my Lord AEneas, 
  We met by chance; you did not find me here.

• Aeneas. Good, good, my lord; the secrets of nature 2370
  Have not more gift in taciturnity.

[Exeunt TROILUS and AENEAS]

• Pandarus. Is't possible? no sooner got but lost? The devil 
  take Antenor! the young prince will go mad: a 
  plague upon Antenor! I would they had broke 's neck!2375

[Re-enter CRESSIDA]

• Cressida. How now! what's the matter? who was here?

• Pandarus. Ah, ah!

• Cressida. Why sigh you so profoundly? where's my lord? gone! 
  Tell me, sweet uncle, what's the matter?2380

• Pandarus. Would I were as deep under the earth as I am above!

• Cressida. O the gods! what's the matter?

• Pandarus. Prithee, get thee in: would thou hadst ne'er been 
  born! I knew thou wouldst be his death. O, poor 
  gentleman! A plague upon Antenor!2385

• Cressida. Good uncle, I beseech you, on my knees! beseech you, 
  what's the matter?

• Pandarus. Thou must be gone, wench, thou must be gone; thou 
  art changed for Antenor: thou must to thy father, 
  and be gone from Troilus: 'twill be his death; 2390
  'twill be his bane; he cannot bear it.

• Cressida. O you immortal gods! I will not go.

• Pandarus. Thou must.

• Cressida. I will not, uncle: I have forgot my father; 
  I know no touch of consanguinity; 2395
  No kin no love, no blood, no soul so near me 
  As the sweet Troilus. O you gods divine! 
  Make Cressid's name the very crown of falsehood, 
  If ever she leave Troilus! Time, force, and death, 
  Do to this body what extremes you can; 2400
  But the strong base and building of my love 
  Is as the very centre of the earth, 
  Drawing all things to it. I'll go in and weep,"”

• Pandarus. Do, do.

• Cressida. Tear my bright hair and scratch my praised cheeks, 2405
  Crack my clear voice with sobs and break my heart 
  With sounding Troilus. I will not go from Troy.

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

Act IV Scene 2 is another super-easy, super-short scene that can be really considered "Part Two" of Act IV Scene 1. What was discussed in the first, is in the process of being executed in the second.

About the only noteworthy thing I can see in this scene is Cressida swearing (feigning?) her devotion to Troilus (after an obvious night of lustful debauchery), and from what little I know about what's coming up, that attitude is about to change very quickly - but the viewer doesn't know this yet.

[DIShGo]

Act IV Scene 2 is another super-easy, super-short scene that can be really considered "Part Two" of Act IV Scene 1. What was discussed in the first, is in the process of being executed in the second.

About the only noteworthy thing I can see in this scene is Cressida swearing (feigning?) her devotion to Troilus (after an obvious night of lustful debauchery), and from what little I know about what's coming up, that attitude is about to change very quickly - but the viewer doesn't know this yet.

I found a couple other things worth noting here. First, I found it interesting that after their first night of lovemaking. Troilus can't seem to get out of there quickly enough to suit him. And that Cressida, once again, laments that she gave of herself too readily, and that if only she had held out, Troilus might be lying next to her, spooning.

When it is learned that she must leave Troy, Troilus seems more concerned with no one discovering he was there, enjoying a night of lustful debauchery, than with the fact that his "true love" is being sent away. Pandarus seems more upset by the news, but he acts more troubled by how it will affect Troilus than with the welfare of his niece. This is another example of how women were viewed as property at this time.

[DonRocks]

I found a couple other things worth noting here. First, I found it interesting that after their first night of lovemaking. Troilus can't seem to get out of there quickly enough to suit him. 

Well, yeah, he's a guy.

[DIShGo]

About the only noteworthy thing I can see in this scene is Cressida swearing (feigning?) her devotion to Troilus (after an obvious night of lustful debauchery), and from what little I know about what's coming up, that attitude is about to change very quickly - but the viewer doesn't know this yet.

It would be interesting to know if the actresses playing the role of Cressida present her as flighty and vain or sweet and sincere. I wonder if the turn of events to come took viewers unfamiliar with the story by surprise.

[DonRocks]

Act IV, Scene 3

The same. Street before Pandarus' house.

   

[Enter PARIS, TROILUS, AENEAS, DEIPHOBUS, ANTENOR,] [p] and DIOMEDES]

• Paris. It is great morning, and the hour prefix'd 
  Of her delivery to this valiant Greek 
  Comes fast upon. Good my brother Troilus, 
  Tell you the lady what she is to do, 
  And haste her to the purpose.2415

• Troilus. Walk into her house; 
  I'll bring her to the Grecian presently: 
  And to his hand when I deliver her, 
  Think it an altar, and thy brother Troilus 
  A priest there offering to it his own heart.2420

[Exit]

• Paris. I know what 'tis to love; 
  And would, as I shall pity, I could help! 
  Please you walk in, my lords.

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

Act IV Scene 3 needs to be its own scene, I suppose, because it has its own setting, and serves as a transition from 4.2 to 4.4, but that's about all there is to say about it unless I'm missing something very subtle. I wonder if, during performance, this is generally played out on the side of the stage.

[DIShGo]

Yes, I could see it being played on the side of the stage. There's not much to discuss here, from what I see. Troilus professes his love. That's about it. I say we move on!

[DonRocks]

Act IV, Scene 4

The same. Pandarus' house.

[Enter PANDARUS and CRESSIDA]

• Pandarus. Be moderate, be moderate.

• Cressida. Why tell you me of moderation? 
  The grief is fine, full, perfect, that I taste, 
  And violenteth in a sense as strong 2430
  As that which causeth it: how can I moderate it? 
  If I could temporize with my affection, 
  Or brew it to a weak and colder palate, 
  The like allayment could I give my grief. 
  My love admits no qualifying dross; 2435
  No more my grief, in such a precious loss.

• Pandarus. Here, here, here he comes. 
  [Enter TROILUS] 
  Ah, sweet ducks!

• Cressida. O Troilus! Troilus!2440

[Embracing him]

• Pandarus. What a pair of spectacles is here! 
  Let me embrace too. 'O heart,' as the goodly saying is, 
  '"”O heart, heavy heart, 
  Why sigh'st thou without breaking? 2445
  where he answers again, 
  'Because thou canst not ease thy smart 
  By friendship nor by speaking.' 
  There was never a truer rhyme. Let us cast away 
  nothing, for we may live to have need of such a 2450
  verse: we see it, we see it. How now, lambs?

• Troilus. Cressid, I love thee in so strain'd a purity, 
  That the bless'd gods, as angry with my fancy, 
  More bright in zeal than the devotion which 
  Cold lips blow to their deities, take thee from me.2455

• Cressida. Have the gods envy?

• Pandarus. Ay, ay, ay, ay; 'tis too plain a case.

• Cressida. And is it true that I must go from Troy?

• Troilus. A hateful truth.

• Cressida. What, and from Troilus too?2460

• Troilus. From Troy and Troilus.

• Cressida. Is it possible?

• Troilus. And suddenly; where injury of chance 
  Puts back leave-taking, justles roughly by 
  All time of pause, rudely beguiles our lips 2465
  Of all rejoindure, forcibly prevents 
  Our lock'd embrasures, strangles our dear vows 
  Even in the birth of our own labouring breath: 
  We two, that with so many thousand sighs 
  Did buy each other, must poorly sell ourselves 2470
  With the rude brevity and discharge of one. 
  Injurious time now with a robber's haste 
  Crams his rich thievery up, he knows not how: 
  As many farewells as be stars in heaven, 
  With distinct breath and consign'd kisses to them, 2475
  He fumbles up into a lose adieu, 
  And scants us with a single famish'd kiss, 
  Distasted with the salt of broken tears.

• Aeneas. [Within] My lord, is the lady ready?

• Troilus. Hark! you are call'd: some say the Genius so 2480
  Cries 'come' to him that instantly must die. 
  Bid them have patience; she shall come anon.

• Pandarus. Where are my tears? rain, to lay this wind, or 
  my heart will be blown up by the root.

[Exit]

• Cressida. I must then to the Grecians?

• Troilus. No remedy.

• Cressida. A woful Cressid 'mongst the merry Greeks! 
  When shall we see again?

• Troilus. Hear me, my love: be thou but true of heart,"”2490

• Cressida. I true! how now! what wicked deem is this?

• Troilus. Nay, we must use expostulation kindly, 
  For it is parting from us: 
  I speak not 'be thou true,' as fearing thee, 
  For I will throw my glove to Death himself, 2495
  That there's no maculation in thy heart: 
  But 'be thou true,' say I, to fashion in 
  My sequent protestation; be thou true, 
  And I will see thee.

• Cressida. O, you shall be exposed, my lord, to dangers 2500
  As infinite as imminent! but I'll be true.

• Troilus. And I'll grow friend with danger. Wear this sleeve.

• Cressida. And you this glove. When shall I see you?

• Troilus. I will corrupt the Grecian sentinels, 
  To give thee nightly visitation. 2505
  But yet be true.

• Cressida. O heavens! 'be true' again!

• Troilus. Hear while I speak it, love: 
  The Grecian youths are full of quality; 
  They're loving, well composed with gifts of nature, 2510
  Flowing and swelling o'er with arts and exercise: 
  How novelty may move, and parts with person, 
  Alas, a kind of godly jealousy"” 
  Which, I beseech you, call a virtuous sin"” 
  Makes me afeard.2515

• Cressida. O heavens! you love me not.

• Troilus. Die I a villain, then! 
  In this I do not call your faith in question 
  So mainly as my merit: I cannot sing, 
  Nor heel the high lavolt, nor sweeten talk, 2520
  Nor play at subtle games; fair virtues all, 
  To which the Grecians are most prompt and pregnant: 
  But I can tell that in each grace of these 
  There lurks a still and dumb-discoursive devil 
  That tempts most cunningly: but be not tempted.2525

• Cressida. Do you think I will?

• Troilus. No. 
  But something may be done that we will not: 
  And sometimes we are devils to ourselves, 
  When we will tempt the frailty of our powers, 2530
  Presuming on their changeful potency.

• Aeneas. [Within] Nay, good my lord,"”

• Troilus. Come, kiss; and let us part.

• Paris. [Within] Brother Troilus!

• Troilus. Good brother, come you hither; 2535
  And bring AEneas and the Grecian with you.

• Cressida. My lord, will you be true?

• Troilus. Who, I? alas, it is my vice, my fault: 
  Whiles others fish with craft for great opinion, 
  I with great truth catch mere simplicity; 2540
  Whilst some with cunning gild their copper crowns, 
  With truth and plainness I do wear mine bare. 
  Fear not my truth: the moral of my wit 
  Is 'plain and true;' there's all the reach of it. 
  [Enter AENEAS, PARIS, ANTENOR, DEIPHOBUS,] 2545
  and DIOMEDES] 
  Welcome, Sir Diomed! here is the lady 
  Which for Antenor we deliver you: 
  At the port, lord, I'll give her to thy hand, 
  And by the way possess thee what she is. 2550
  Entreat her fair; and, by my soul, fair Greek, 
  If e'er thou stand at mercy of my sword, 
  Name Cressida and thy life shall be as safe 
  As Priam is in Ilion.

• Diomedes. Fair Lady Cressid, 2555
  So please you, save the thanks this prince expects: 
  The lustre in your eye, heaven in your cheek, 
  Pleads your fair usage; and to Diomed 
  You shall be mistress, and command him wholly.

• Troilus. Grecian, thou dost not use me courteously, 2560
  To shame the zeal of my petition to thee 
  In praising her: I tell thee, lord of Greece, 
  She is as far high-soaring o'er thy praises 
  As thou unworthy to be call'd her servant. 
  I charge thee use her well, even for my charge; 2565
  For, by the dreadful Pluto, if thou dost not, 
  Though the great bulk Achilles be thy guard, 
  I'll cut thy throat.

• Diomedes. O, be not moved, Prince Troilus: 
  Let me be privileged by my place and message, 2570
  To be a speaker free; when I am hence 
  I'll answer to my lust: and know you, lord, 
  I'll nothing do on charge: to her own worth 
  She shall be prized; but that you say 'be't so,' 
  I'll speak it in my spirit and honour, 'no.'2575

• Troilus. Come, to the port. I'll tell thee, Diomed, 
  This brave shall oft make thee to hide thy head. 
  Lady, give me your hand, and, as we walk, 
  To our own selves bend we our needful talk.

[Exeunt TROILUS, CRESSIDA, and DIOMEDES]

[Trumpet within]

• Paris. Hark! Hector's trumpet.

• Aeneas. How have we spent this morning! 
  The prince must think me tardy and remiss, 
  That sore to ride before him to the field.2585

• Paris. 'Tis Troilus' fault: come, come, to field with him.

• Deiphobus. Let us make ready straight.

• Aeneas. Yea, with a bridegroom's fresh alacrity, 
  Let us address to tend on Hector's heels: 
  The glory of our Troy doth this day lie 2590
  On his fair worth and single chivalry.

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

Act IV, Scene 4

The same. Pandarus' house.

[Enter PANDARUS and CRESSIDA]

• Pandarus. Be moderate, be moderate.

• Cressida. Why tell you me of moderation? 
  The grief is fine, full, perfect, that I taste, 
  And violenteth in a sense as strong 2430
  As that which causeth it: how can I moderate it? 
  If I could temporize with my affection, 
  Or brew it to a weak and colder palate, 
  The like allayment could I give my grief. 
  My love admits no qualifying dross; 2435
  No more my grief, in such a precious loss.

• Pandarus. Here, here, here he comes. 
  [Enter TROILUS] 
  Ah, sweet ducks!

• Cressida. O Troilus! Troilus!2440

[Embracing him]

• Pandarus. What a pair of spectacles is here! 
  Let me embrace too. 'O heart,' as the goodly saying is, 
  '"”O heart, heavy heart, 
  Why sigh'st thou without breaking? 2445
  where he answers again, 
  'Because thou canst not ease thy smart 
  By friendship nor by speaking.' 
  There was never a truer rhyme. Let us cast away 
  nothing, for we may live to have need of such a 2450
  verse: we see it, we see it. How now, lambs?

• Troilus. Cressid, I love thee in so strain'd a purity, 
  That the bless'd gods, as angry with my fancy, 
  More bright in zeal than the devotion which 
  Cold lips blow to their deities, take thee from me.2455

• Cressida. Have the gods envy?

• Pandarus. Ay, ay, ay, ay; 'tis too plain a case.

• Cressida. And is it true that I must go from Troy?

• Troilus. A hateful truth.

• Cressida. What, and from Troilus too?2460

• Troilus. From Troy and Troilus.

• Cressida. Is it possible?

• Troilus. And suddenly; where injury of chance 
  Puts back leave-taking, justles roughly by 
  All time of pause, rudely beguiles our lips 2465
  Of all rejoindure, forcibly prevents 
  Our lock'd embrasures, strangles our dear vows 
  Even in the birth of our own labouring breath: 
  We two, that with so many thousand sighs 
  Did buy each other, must poorly sell ourselves 2470
  With the rude brevity and discharge of one. 
  Injurious time now with a robber's haste 
  Crams his rich thievery up, he knows not how: 
  As many farewells as be stars in heaven, 
  With distinct breath and consign'd kisses to them, 2475
  He fumbles up into a lose adieu, 
  And scants us with a single famish'd kiss, 
  Distasted with the salt of broken tears.

• Aeneas. [Within] My lord, is the lady ready?

• Troilus. Hark! you are call'd: some say the Genius so 2480
  Cries 'come' to him that instantly must die. 
  Bid them have patience; she shall come anon.

• Pandarus. Where are my tears? rain, to lay this wind, or 
  my heart will be blown up by the root.

[Exit]

• Cressida. I must then to the Grecians?

• Troilus. No remedy.

• Cressida. A woful Cressid 'mongst the merry Greeks! 
  When shall we see again?

• Troilus. Hear me, my love: be thou but true of heart,"”2490

• Cressida. I true! how now! what wicked deem is this?

• Troilus. Nay, we must use expostulation kindly, 
  For it is parting from us: 
  I speak not 'be thou true,' as fearing thee, 
  For I will throw my glove to Death himself, 2495
  That there's no maculation in thy heart: 
  But 'be thou true,' say I, to fashion in 
  My sequent protestation; be thou true, 
  And I will see thee.

• Cressida. O, you shall be exposed, my lord, to dangers 2500
  As infinite as imminent! but I'll be true.

• Troilus. And I'll grow friend with danger. Wear this sleeve.

• Cressida. And you this glove. When shall I see you?

• Troilus. I will corrupt the Grecian sentinels, 
  To give thee nightly visitation. 2505
  But yet be true.

• Cressida. O heavens! 'be true' again!

• Troilus. Hear while I speak it, love: 
  The Grecian youths are full of quality; 
  They're loving, well composed with gifts of nature, 2510
  Flowing and swelling o'er with arts and exercise: 
  How novelty may move, and parts with person, 
  Alas, a kind of godly jealousy"” 
  Which, I beseech you, call a virtuous sin"” 
  Makes me afeard.2515

• Cressida. O heavens! you love me not.

• Troilus. Die I a villain, then! 
  In this I do not call your faith in question 
  So mainly as my merit: I cannot sing, 
  Nor heel the high lavolt, nor sweeten talk, 2520
  Nor play at subtle games; fair virtues all, 
  To which the Grecians are most prompt and pregnant: 
  But I can tell that in each grace of these 
  There lurks a still and dumb-discoursive devil 
  That tempts most cunningly: but be not tempted.2525

• Cressida. Do you think I will?

• Troilus. No. 
  But something may be done that we will not: 
  And sometimes we are devils to ourselves, 
  When we will tempt the frailty of our powers, 2530
  Presuming on their changeful potency.

• Aeneas. [Within] Nay, good my lord,"”

• Troilus. Come, kiss; and let us part.

• Paris. [Within] Brother Troilus!

• Troilus. Good brother, come you hither; 2535
  And bring AEneas and the Grecian with you.

• Cressida. My lord, will you be true?

• Troilus. Who, I? alas, it is my vice, my fault: 
  Whiles others fish with craft for great opinion, 
  I with great truth catch mere simplicity; 2540
  Whilst some with cunning gild their copper crowns, 
  With truth and plainness I do wear mine bare. 
  Fear not my truth: the moral of my wit 
  Is 'plain and true;' there's all the reach of it. 
  [Enter AENEAS, PARIS, ANTENOR, DEIPHOBUS,] 2545
  and DIOMEDES] 
  Welcome, Sir Diomed! here is the lady 
  Which for Antenor we deliver you: 
  At the port, lord, I'll give her to thy hand, 
  And by the way possess thee what she is. 2550
  Entreat her fair; and, by my soul, fair Greek, 
  If e'er thou stand at mercy of my sword, 
  Name Cressida and thy life shall be as safe 
  As Priam is in Ilion.

• Diomedes. Fair Lady Cressid, 2555
  So please you, save the thanks this prince expects: 
  The lustre in your eye, heaven in your cheek, 
  Pleads your fair usage; and to Diomed 
  You shall be mistress, and command him wholly.

• Troilus. Grecian, thou dost not use me courteously, 2560
  To shame the zeal of my petition to thee 
  In praising her: I tell thee, lord of Greece, 
  She is as far high-soaring o'er thy praises 
  As thou unworthy to be call'd her servant. 
  I charge thee use her well, even for my charge; 2565
  For, by the dreadful Pluto, if thou dost not, 
  Though the great bulk Achilles be thy guard, 
  I'll cut thy throat.

• Diomedes. O, be not moved, Prince Troilus: 
  Let me be privileged by my place and message, 2570
  To be a speaker free; when I am hence 
  I'll answer to my lust: and know you, lord, 
  I'll nothing do on charge: to her own worth 
  She shall be prized; but that you say 'be't so,' 
  I'll speak it in my spirit and honour, 'no.'2575

• Troilus. Come, to the port. I'll tell thee, Diomed, 
  This brave shall oft make thee to hide thy head. 
  Lady, give me your hand, and, as we walk, 
  To our own selves bend we our needful talk.

[Exeunt TROILUS, CRESSIDA, and DIOMEDES]

[Trumpet within]

• Paris. Hark! Hector's trumpet.

• Aeneas. How have we spent this morning! 
  The prince must think me tardy and remiss, 
  That sore to ride before him to the field.2585

• Paris. 'Tis Troilus' fault: come, come, to field with him.

• Deiphobus. Let us make ready straight.

• Aeneas. Yea, with a bridegroom's fresh alacrity, 
  Let us address to tend on Hector's heels: 
  The glory of our Troy doth this day lie 2590
  On his fair worth and single chivalry.

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

Oft times in Shakespeare, I'll read a passage and understand the gist of it, but if you asked me to parse individual words or phrases, I'd have a devil of a time. Such is the case with the five-line passage by Diomedes in 2555-2559. He clearly says something to hack Troilus off, but I'm not sure exactly what it is that he said. I get the overall meaning, but I couldn't parse the words on first reading. Would anyone like to take a stab at it?

This act is clearly a mixture of foreshadowing and character development (Troilus is the suspicious type (justifiably, as the Greeks owe him nothing, and Troilus' relationship with Cressida is founded upon soft earth)).

[DIShGo]

Yes, there is a lot of foreshadowing here, but why is Troilus so mistrusting of Cressida? Is he an insecure person by nature, or is it because he realizes that their love is so tenuous?

I can't parse the words line by line in the exchange between Diomedes and Troilus, but it is clear, when Troulis asks Diomedes to treat Cressida honorably, Diomedes discounts his request. From 2555 to 2559, he ignores Troilus and speaks directly to Cressida. Diomedes praises her, and tells her he will treat her well because he wants to, and, consequently, she will give herself to him. It is as if he turned to Troilus and slapped him across the face.

Troilus understandably gets angry, and his reply can be boiled down to, "Touch her and I will slit your throat." Again, Diomedes discounts his passionate speech. He answers, essentially, "Calm down, Troilus. When the time comes, I will do what I want with her, based on my feelings for her, and not because of anything you say."

Diomedes is extremely dismissive of Troilus, and Troilus is powerless to do anything about it.

[DonRocks]

Yes, there is a lot of foreshadowing here, but why is Troilus so mistrusting of Cressida? Is he an insecure person by nature, or is it because he realizes that their love is so tenuous?

You'll find out in Act 4 Scene 5 what a bunch of sluts the Greeks are.

(And I'm talking the men - in the scene where they're all trying to steal their cheap little kisses from "Fair Cressid." Think about it - they've been camped out on Troy for goodness-knows-how-long, and all of a sudden a hot woman is in their midst.)

[DonRocks]

Act IV, Scene 5

The Grecian camp. Lists set out.

 

[Enter AJAX, armed; AGAMEMNON, ACHILLES, PATROCLUS,] [p]MENELAUS, ULYSSES, NESTOR, and others]

• Agamemnon. Here art thou in appointment fresh and fair, 2595
  Anticipating time with starting courage. 
  Give with thy trumpet a loud note to Troy, 
  Thou dreadful Ajax; that the appalled air 
  May pierce the head of the great combatant 
  And hale him hither.2600

• Ajax. Thou, trumpet, there's my purse. 
  Now crack thy lungs, and split thy brazen pipe: 
  Blow, villain, till thy sphered bias cheek 
  Outswell the colic of puff'd Aquilon: 
  Come, stretch thy chest and let thy eyes spout blood; 2605
  Thou blow'st for Hector.

[Trumpet sounds]

• Ulysses. No trumpet answers.

• Achilles. 'Tis but early days.

• Agamemnon. Is not yond Diomed, with Calchas' daughter?2610

• Ulysses. 'Tis he, I ken the manner of his gait; 
  He rises on the toe: that spirit of his 
  In aspiration lifts him from the earth.

[Enter DIOMEDES, with CRESSIDA]

• Agamemnon. Is this the Lady Cressid?2615

• Diomedes. Even she.

• Agamemnon. Most dearly welcome to the Greeks, sweet lady.

• Nestor. Our general doth salute you with a kiss.

• Ulysses. Yet is the kindness but particular; 
  'Twere better she were kiss'd in general.2620

• Nestor. And very courtly counsel: I'll begin. 
  So much for Nestor.

• Achilles. I'll take what winter from your lips, fair lady: 
  Achilles bids you welcome.

• Menelaus. I had good argument for kissing once.2625

• Patroclus. But that's no argument for kissing now; 
  For this popp'd Paris in his hardiment, 
  And parted thus you and your argument.

• Ulysses. O deadly gall, and theme of all our scorns! 
  For which we lose our heads to gild his horns.2630

• Patroclus. The first was Menelaus' kiss; this, mine: 
  Patroclus kisses you.

• Menelaus. O, this is trim!

• Patroclus. Paris and I kiss evermore for him.

• Menelaus. I'll have my kiss, sir. Lady, by your leave.2635

• Cressida. In kissing, do you render or receive?

• Patroclus. Both take and give.

• Cressida. I'll make my match to live, 
  The kiss you take is better than you give; 
  Therefore no kiss.2640

• Menelaus. I'll give you boot, I'll give you three for one.

• Cressida. You're an odd man; give even or give none.

• Menelaus. An odd man, lady! every man is odd.

• Cressida. No, Paris is not; for you know 'tis true, 
  That you are odd, and he is even with you.2645

• Menelaus. You fillip me o' the head.

• Cressida. No, I'll be sworn.

• Ulysses. It were no match, your nail against his horn. 
  May I, sweet lady, beg a kiss of you?

• Cressida. You may.2650

• Ulysses. I do desire it.

• Cressida. Why, beg, then.

• Ulysses. Why then for Venus' sake, give me a kiss, 
  When Helen is a maid again, and his.

• Cressida. I am your debtor, claim it when 'tis due.2655

• Ulysses. Never's my day, and then a kiss of you.

• Diomedes. Lady, a word: I'll bring you to your father.

[Exit with CRESSIDA]

• Nestor. A woman of quick sense.

• Ulysses. Fie, fie upon her! 2660
  There's language in her eye, her cheek, her lip, 
  Nay, her foot speaks; her wanton spirits look out 
  At every joint and motive of her body. 
  O, these encounterers, so glib of tongue, 
  That give accosting welcome ere it comes, 2665
  And wide unclasp the tables of their thoughts 
  To every ticklish reader! set them down 
  For sluttish spoils of opportunity 
  And daughters of the game.

[Trumpet within]

• All. The Trojans' trumpet.

• Agamemnon. Yonder comes the troop. 
  [Enter HECTOR, armed; AENEAS, TROILUS, and other] 
  Trojans, with Attendants]

• Aeneas. Hail, all you state of Greece! what shall be done 2675
  To him that victory commands? or do you purpose 
  A victor shall be known? will you the knights 
  Shall to the edge of all extremity 
  Pursue each other, or shall be divided 
  By any voice or order of the field? 2680
  Hector bade ask.

• Agamemnon. Which way would Hector have it?

• Aeneas. He cares not; he'll obey conditions.

• Achilles. 'Tis done like Hector; but securely done, 
  A little proudly, and great deal misprizing 2685
  The knight opposed.

• Aeneas. If not Achilles, sir, 
  What is your name?

• Achilles. If not Achilles, nothing.

• Aeneas. Therefore Achilles: but, whate'er, know this: 2690
  In the extremity of great and little, 
  Valour and pride excel themselves in Hector; 
  The one almost as infinite as all, 
  The other blank as nothing. Weigh him well, 
  And that which looks like pride is courtesy. 2695
  This Ajax is half made of Hector's blood: 
  In love whereof, half Hector stays at home; 
  Half heart, half hand, half Hector comes to seek 
  This blended knight, half Trojan and half Greek.

• Achilles. A maiden battle, then? O, I perceive you.2700

[Re-enter DIOMEDES]

• Agamemnon. Here is Sir Diomed. Go, gentle knight, 
  Stand by our Ajax: as you and Lord AEneas 
  Consent upon the order of their fight, 
  So be it; either to the uttermost, 2705
  Or else a breath: the combatants being kin 
  Half stints their strife before their strokes begin.

[AJAX and HECTOR enter the lists]

• Ulysses. They are opposed already.

• Agamemnon. What Trojan is that same that looks so heavy?2710

• Ulysses. The youngest son of Priam, a true knight, 
  Not yet mature, yet matchless, firm of word, 
  Speaking in deeds and deedless in his tongue; 
  Not soon provoked nor being provoked soon calm'd: 
  His heart and hand both open and both free; 2715
  For what he has he gives, what thinks he shows; 
  Yet gives he not till judgment guide his bounty, 
  Nor dignifies an impure thought with breath; 
  Manly as Hector, but more dangerous; 
  For Hector in his blaze of wrath subscribes 2720
  To tender objects, but he in heat of action 
  Is more vindicative than jealous love: 
  They call him Troilus, and on him erect 
  A second hope, as fairly built as Hector. 
  Thus says AEneas; one that knows the youth 2725
  Even to his inches, and with private soul 
  Did in great Ilion thus translate him to me.

[Alarum. Hector and Ajax fight]

• Agamemnon. They are in action.

• Nestor. Now, Ajax, hold thine own!2730

• Troilus. Hector, thou sleep'st; 
  Awake thee!

• Agamemnon. His blows are well disposed: there, Ajax!

• Diomedes. You must no more.

[Trumpets cease]

• Aeneas. Princes, enough, so please you.

• Ajax. I am not warm yet; let us fight again.

• Diomedes. As Hector pleases.

• Hector. Why, then will I no more: 
  Thou art, great lord, my father's sister's son, 2740
  A cousin-german to great Priam's seed; 
  The obligation of our blood forbids 
  A gory emulation 'twixt us twain: 
  Were thy commixtion Greek and Trojan so 
  That thou couldst say 'This hand is Grecian all, 2745
  And this is Trojan; the sinews of this leg 
  All Greek, and this all Troy; my mother's blood 
  Runs on the dexter cheek, and this sinister 
  Bounds in my father's;' by Jove multipotent, 
  Thou shouldst not bear from me a Greekish member 2750
  Wherein my sword had not impressure made 
  Of our rank feud: but the just gods gainsay 
  That any drop thou borrow'dst from thy mother, 
  My sacred aunt, should by my mortal sword 
  Be drain'd! Let me embrace thee, Ajax: 2755
  By him that thunders, thou hast lusty arms; 
  Hector would have them fall upon him thus: 
  Cousin, all honour to thee!

• Ajax. I thank thee, Hector 
  Thou art too gentle and too free a man: 2760
  I came to kill thee, cousin, and bear hence 
  A great addition earned in thy death.

• Hector. Not Neoptolemus so mirable, 
  On whose bright crest Fame with her loud'st Oyes 
  Cries 'This is he,' could promise to himself 2765
  A thought of added honour torn from Hector.

• Aeneas. There is expectance here from both the sides, 
  What further you will do.

• Hector. We'll answer it; 
  The issue is embracement: Ajax, farewell.2770

• Ajax. If I might in entreaties find success"” 
  As seld I have the chance"”I would desire 
  My famous cousin to our Grecian tents.

• Diomedes. 'Tis Agamemnon's wish, and great Achilles 
  Doth long to see unarm'd the valiant Hector.2775

• Hector. AEneas, call my brother Troilus to me, 
  And signify this loving interview 
  To the expecters of our Trojan part; 
  Desire them home. Give me thy hand, my cousin; 
  I will go eat with thee and see your knights.2780

• Ajax. Great Agamemnon comes to meet us here.

• Hector. The worthiest of them tell me name by name; 
  But for Achilles, mine own searching eyes 
  Shall find him by his large and portly size.

• Agamemnon. Worthy of arms! as welcome as to one 2785
  That would be rid of such an enemy; 
  But that's no welcome: understand more clear, 
  What's past and what's to come is strew'd with husks 
  And formless ruin of oblivion; 
  But in this extant moment, faith and troth, 2790
  Strain'd purely from all hollow bias-drawing, 
  Bids thee, with most divine integrity, 
  From heart of very heart, great Hector, welcome.

• Hector. I thank thee, most imperious Agamemnon.

• Agamemnon. [To TROILUS] My well-famed lord of Troy, no 2795
  less to you.

• Menelaus. Let me confirm my princely brother's greeting: 
  You brace of warlike brothers, welcome hither.

• Hector. Who must we answer?

• Aeneas. The noble Menelaus.2800

• Hector. O, you, my lord? by Mars his gauntlet, thanks! 
  Mock not, that I affect the untraded oath; 
  Your quondam wife swears still by Venus' glove: 
  She's well, but bade me not commend her to you.

• Menelaus. Name her not now, sir; she's a deadly theme.2805

• Hector. O, pardon; I offend.

• Nestor. I have, thou gallant Trojan, seen thee oft 
  Labouring for destiny make cruel way 
  Through ranks of Greekish youth, and I have seen thee, 
  As hot as Perseus, spur thy Phrygian steed, 2810
  Despising many forfeits and subduements, 
  When thou hast hung thy advanced sword i' the air, 
  Not letting it decline on the declined, 
  That I have said to some my standers by 
  'Lo, Jupiter is yonder, dealing life!' 2815
  And I have seen thee pause and take thy breath, 
  When that a ring of Greeks have hemm'd thee in, 
  Like an Olympian wrestling: this have I seen; 
  But this thy countenance, still lock'd in steel, 
  I never saw till now. I knew thy grandsire, 2820
  And once fought with him: he was a soldier good; 
  But, by great Mars, the captain of us all, 
  Never saw like thee. Let an old man embrace thee; 
  And, worthy warrior, welcome to our tents.

• Aeneas. 'Tis the old Nestor.2825

• Hector. Let me embrace thee, good old chronicle, 
  That hast so long walk'd hand in hand with time: 
  Most reverend Nestor, I am glad to clasp thee.

• Nestor. I would my arms could match thee in contention, 
  As they contend with thee in courtesy.2830

• Hector. I would they could.

• Nestor. Ha! 
  By this white beard, I'ld fight with thee to-morrow. 
  Well, welcome, welcome! I have seen the time.

• Ulysses. I wonder now how yonder city stands 2835
  When we have here her base and pillar by us.

• Hector. I know your favour, Lord Ulysses, well. 
  Ah, sir, there's many a Greek and Trojan dead, 
  Since first I saw yourself and Diomed 
  In Ilion, on your Greekish embassy.2840

• Ulysses. Sir, I foretold you then what would ensue: 
  My prophecy is but half his journey yet; 
  For yonder walls, that pertly front your town, 
  Yond towers, whose wanton tops do buss the clouds, 
  Must kiss their own feet.2845

• Hector. I must not believe you: 
  There they stand yet, and modestly I think, 
  The fall of every Phrygian stone will cost 
  A drop of Grecian blood: the end crowns all, 
  And that old common arbitrator, Time, 2850
  Will one day end it.

• Ulysses. So to him we leave it. 
  Most gentle and most valiant Hector, welcome: 
  After the general, I beseech you next 
  To feast with me and see me at my tent.2855

• Achilles. I shall forestall thee, Lord Ulysses, thou! 
  Now, Hector, I have fed mine eyes on thee; 
  I have with exact view perused thee, Hector, 
  And quoted joint by joint.

• Hector. Is this Achilles?2860

• Achilles. I am Achilles.

• Hector. Stand fair, I pray thee: let me look on thee.

• Achilles. Behold thy fill.

• Hector. Nay, I have done already.

• Achilles. Thou art too brief: I will the second time, 2865
  As I would buy thee, view thee limb by limb.

• Hector. O, like a book of sport thou'lt read me o'er; 
  But there's more in me than thou understand'st. 
  Why dost thou so oppress me with thine eye?

• Achilles. Tell me, you heavens, in which part of his body 2870
  Shall I destroy him? whether there, or there, or there? 
  That I may give the local wound a name 
  And make distinct the very breach whereout 
  Hector's great spirit flew: answer me, heavens!

• Hector. It would discredit the blest gods, proud man, 2875
  To answer such a question: stand again: 
  Think'st thou to catch my life so pleasantly 
  As to prenominate in nice conjecture 
  Where thou wilt hit me dead?

• Achilles. I tell thee, yea.2880

• Hector. Wert thou an oracle to tell me so, 
  I'd not believe thee. Henceforth guard thee well; 
  For I'll not kill thee there, nor there, nor there; 
  But, by the forge that stithied Mars his helm, 
  I'll kill thee every where, yea, o'er and o'er. 2885
  You wisest Grecians, pardon me this brag; 
  His insolence draws folly from my lips; 
  But I'll endeavour deeds to match these words, 
  Or may I never"”

• Ajax. Do not chafe thee, cousin: 2890
  And you, Achilles, let these threats alone, 
  Till accident or purpose bring you to't: 
  You may have every day enough of Hector 
  If you have stomach; the general state, I fear, 
  Can scarce entreat you to be odd with him.2895

• Hector. I pray you, let us see you in the field: 
  We have had pelting wars, since you refused 
  The Grecians' cause.

• Achilles. Dost thou entreat me, Hector? 
  To-morrow do I meet thee, fell as death; 2900
  To-night all friends.

• Hector. Thy hand upon that match.

• Agamemnon. First, all you peers of Greece, go to my tent; 
  There in the full convive we: afterwards, 
  As Hector's leisure and your bounties shall 2905
  Concur together, severally entreat him. 
  Beat loud the tabourines, let the trumpets blow, 
  That this great soldier may his welcome know.

[Exeunt all except TROILUS and ULYSSES]

• Troilus. My Lord Ulysses, tell me, I beseech you, 2910
  In what place of the field doth Calchas keep?

• Ulysses. At Menelaus' tent, most princely Troilus: 
  There Diomed doth feast with him to-night; 
  Who neither looks upon the heaven nor earth, 
  But gives all gaze and bent of amorous view 2915
  On the fair Cressid.

• Troilus. Shall sweet lord, be bound to you so much, 
  After we part from Agamemnon's tent, 
  To bring me thither?

• Ulysses. You shall command me, sir. 2920
  As gentle tell me, of what honour was 
  This Cressida in Troy? Had she no lover there 
  That wails her absence?

• Troilus. O, sir, to such as boasting show their scars 
  A mock is due. Will you walk on, my lord? 2925
  She was beloved, she loved; she is, and doth: 
  But still sweet love is food for fortune's tooth.

[Exeunt]

[DonRocks]

I hope that in the future - it doesn't matter when - others will read and comment on this play. In the interim, it looks like it's me and DIShGo (which is fine).

There's a reason why Troilus and Cressida is so obscure: It isn't all that good. Years ago, I embarked on a chronological reading of Shakespeare's plays, starting with his first: Henry VI, Part I. I simply could not believe anything penned by the hand of Shakespeare could be so downright *bad*, and wrote it off to a youthful failure on his part, being as sure as sure can be that nothing Shakespeare would ever write after Henry VI, Part I could be so downright awful.

Then, I read Henry VI, Part II.

In the course of these first two plays, things went from bad, to so unbelievably bad that one wonders how The Bard got a third chance. These plays aren't just bad "for Shakespeare"; they're bad on absolute terms.

Troilus and Cressida is nowhere near as bad as these two calamities, but it is indeed one of Shakespeare's weakest efforts, and borders on being a failure. Many, many people have never even heard of Troilus and Cressida; compare and contrast with Julius Caesar, Hamlet, Macbeth, Romeo and Juliet, King Lear, etc., which *everyone* has heard of because they're *great*, and have withstood the test of time.

Nevertheless, Troiilus and Cressida *is* Shakespeare, and that alone is enough to make it important enough not to be a waste of effort to read. I hope others will delve into it and converse with us here in the future - I love seeing DIShGo's comments, short though they may be, and others' would be equally as welcome.

Act IV Scene 5 is a fairly long scene, but it's pretty well crammed full of meat, *finally* co-mingling the two previously disparate themes of 1) the war and 2) the romance - a welcome and long overdue melange. The kissing scene was amusing, but also lets the reader know that Troilus is essentially hosed, and Diomedes has his lustful eyes fixed on fair Cressida (who's eating this attention up).

Regarding the fight scenes, I keep saying to myself, "Get on with it!" Stop calling your enemies "gentle and fair blah-blah-blah and start swinging your swords, damn it!" In King Lear, they gouged some guy's eye out. Now *that* is good, old-fashioned Grand Guignol which is sorely lacking from these effete WINOs (Warriors In Name Only).

[porcupine]

There's a reason why Troilus and Cressida is so obscure: It isn't all that good

In the hands of a talented theater company, it can be good, but never great.  But that's always a problem I've had trying to read scripts as literature.

[DonRocks]

In the hands of a talented theater company, it can be good, but never great.  But that's always a problem I've had trying to read scripts as literature.

porcupine, I don't mean to doubt you, but I can't believe you've never read a play you thought was great. Really?

Anyway, back to my original point, I remember you saying this was one of your favorite Shakespeares - I assume you had a good experience with it when you were younger. Your opinions would be *most* welcome, and a pleasure to read.

[DIShGo]

I told a man who runs a Shakespeare theatre company that I was reading "Troilus and Cressida," and he replied, "Why?"

While I don't think it is the worst thing I have read, it is, at times, tedious. All of the war "talk" in this scene is the perfect example. I had to reread it because the first time I found myself skimming, looking for some real action to start.

The kissing part, on the other hand, is amusing. Defining the genre of this play is one of the great debates surrounding it. While it is called a tragedy, it also has been considered a comedy and a history.  For me, the comedy stands out, while the tragic bits are lacking. At least they have been up to this point.

[DonRocks]

While it is called a tragedy, it also has been considered a comedy and a history.  For me, the comedy stands out, while the tragic bits are lacking. At least they have been up to this point.

I don't think this is generally categorized as a tragedy, comedy, *or* history; it's usually lumped in with the category called "Problem Plays."

[DIShGo]

I don't think this is generally categorized as a tragedy, comedy, *or* history; it's usually lumped in with the category called "Problem Plays."

Yes, I have heard it called that, too, which essentially means after being labeled a comedy, a tragedy and history and a satire, it was decided that it is really none of these. It also has been called a dark comedy, which I think is fitting.

I was surprised at how quickly Cressida began flirting with the Greeks. I thought she would at least play coy for a little while, but she dove right in.

I read that Shakespeare presents Cressida more harshly than Chaucer did in "Troilus and Criseyde," the poem on which the play is based. In Chaucer's version, she is portrayed as a more sympathetic figure.

I think the kissing scene is a good example of how seeing the play rather than reading it would add a great deal. The expression on the face of the actor or actress playing Cressida would convey whether she feels she is being abused and is going along to make the best of a bad situation, or if she is truly enjoying all of the attention. It is difficult to discern from only reading the play.

[DonRocks]

Act V, Scene 1

The Grecian camp. Before Achilles' tent.

[Enter ACHILLES and PATROCLUS]

• Achilles. I'll heat his blood with Greekish wine to-night, 2930
  Which with my scimitar I'll cool to-morrow. 
  Patroclus, let us feast him to the height.

• Patroclus. Here comes Thersites.

[Enter THERSITES]

• Achilles. How now, thou core of envy! 2935
  Thou crusty batch of nature, what's the news?

• Thersites. Why, thou picture of what thou seemest, and idol 
  of idiot worshippers, here's a letter for thee.

• Achilles. From whence, fragment?

• Thersites. Why, thou full dish of fool, from Troy.2940

• Patroclus. Who keeps the tent now?

• Thersites. The surgeon's box, or the patient's wound.

• Patroclus. Well said, adversity! and what need these tricks?

• Thersites. Prithee, be silent, boy; I profit not by thy talk: 
  thou art thought to be Achilles' male varlet.2945

• Patroclus. Male varlet, you rogue! what's that?

• Thersites. Why, his masculine whore. Now, the rotten diseases 
  of the south, the guts-griping, ruptures, catarrhs, 
  loads o' gravel i' the back, lethargies, cold 
  palsies, raw eyes, dirt-rotten livers, wheezing 2950
  lungs, bladders full of imposthume, sciaticas, 
  limekilns i' the palm, incurable bone-ache, and the 
  rivelled fee-simple of the tetter, take and take 
  again such preposterous discoveries!

• Patroclus. Why thou damnable box of envy, thou, what meanest 2955
  thou to curse thus?

• Thersites. Do I curse thee?

• Patroclus. Why no, you ruinous butt, you whoreson 
  indistinguishable cur, no.

• Thersites. No! why art thou then exasperate, thou idle 2960
  immaterial skein of sleave-silk, thou green sarcenet 
  flap for a sore eye, thou tassel of a prodigal's 
  purse, thou? Ah, how the poor world is pestered 
  with such waterflies, diminutives of nature!

• Patroclus. Out, gall!2965

• Thersites. Finch-egg!

• Achilles. My sweet Patroclus, I am thwarted quite 
  From my great purpose in to-morrow's battle. 
  Here is a letter from Queen Hecuba, 
  A token from her daughter, my fair love, 2970
  Both taxing me and gaging me to keep 
  An oath that I have sworn. I will not break it: 
  Fall Greeks; fail fame; honour or go or stay; 
  My major vow lies here, this I'll obey. 
  Come, come, Thersites, help to trim my tent: 2975
  This night in banqueting must all be spent. 
  Away, Patroclus!

[Exeunt ACHILLES and PATROCLUS]

• Thersites. With too much blood and too little brain, these two 
  may run mad; but, if with too much brain and too 2980
  little blood they do, I'll be a curer of madmen. 
  Here's Agamemnon, an honest fellow enough and one 
  that loves quails; but he has not so much brain as 
  earwax: and the goodly transformation of Jupiter 
  there, his brother, the bull,"”the primitive statue, 2985
  and oblique memorial of cuckolds; a thrifty 
  shoeing-horn in a chain, hanging at his brother's 
  leg,"”to what form but that he is, should wit larded 
  with malice and malice forced with wit turn him to? 
  To an ass, were nothing; he is both ass and ox: to 2990
  an ox, were nothing; he is both ox and ass. To be a 
  dog, a mule, a cat, a fitchew, a toad, a lizard, an 
  owl, a puttock, or a herring without a roe, I would 
  not care; but to be Menelaus, I would conspire 
  against destiny. Ask me not, what I would be, if I 2995
  were not Thersites; for I care not to be the louse 
  of a lazar, so I were not Menelaus! Hey-day! 
  spirits and fires! 
  [Enter HECTOR, TROILUS, AJAX, AGAMEMNON, ULYSSES,] 
  NESTOR, MENELAUS, and DIOMEDES, with lights]3000

• Agamemnon. We go wrong, we go wrong.

• Ajax. No, yonder 'tis; 
  There, where we see the lights.

• Hector. I trouble you.

• Ajax. No, not a whit.3005

• Ulysses. Here comes himself to guide you.

[Re-enter ACHILLES]

• Achilles. Welcome, brave Hector; welcome, princes all.

• Agamemnon. So now, fair prince of Troy, I bid good night. 
  Ajax commands the guard to tend on you.3010

• Hector. Thanks and good night to the Greeks' general.

• Menelaus. Good night, my lord.

• Hector. Good night, sweet lord Menelaus.

• Thersites. Sweet draught: 'sweet' quoth 'a! sweet sink, 
  sweet sewer.3015

• Achilles. Good night and welcome, both at once, to those 
  That go or tarry.

• Agamemnon. Good night.

[Exeunt AGAMEMNON and MENELAUS]

• Achilles. Old Nestor tarries; and you too, Diomed, 3020
  Keep Hector company an hour or two.

• Diomedes. I cannot, lord; I have important business, 
  The tide whereof is now. Good night, great Hector.

• Hector. Give me your hand.

• Ulysses. [Aside to TROILUS] Follow his torch; he goes to 3025
  Calchas' tent: 
  I'll keep you company.

• Troilus. Sweet sir, you honour me.

• Hector. And so, good night.

[Exit DIOMEDES; ULYSSES and TROILUS following]

• Achilles. Come, come, enter my tent.

[Exeunt ACHILLES, HECTOR, AJAX, and NESTOR]

• Thersites. That same Diomed's a false-hearted rogue, a most 
  unjust knave; I will no more trust him when he leers 
  than I will a serpent when he hisses: he will spend 3035
  his mouth, and promise, like Brabbler the hound: 
  but when he performs, astronomers foretell it; it 
  is prodigious, there will come some change; the sun 
  borrows of the moon, when Diomed keeps his 
  word. I will rather leave to see Hector, than 3040
  not to dog him: they say he keeps a Trojan 
  drab, and uses the traitor Calchas' tent: I'll 
  after. Nothing but lechery! all incontinent varlets!

[DonRocks]

Something you may not have noticed in Act IV Scene 4, Line 2670, immediately after the extended kissing scene. Everyone says in unison, after a trumpet blows off-stage: "The Trojan's trumpet!" This would be heard by the audience as, "The Trojan strumpet!" It doesn't get much funnier than this.

I know I've said this before, but it's amazing how much Thersites reminds me of Fool in King Lear. Yes, he's a venom-tongued viper, but he speaks the truth - always - and he's nobody's fool. In fact, he's my favorite character in this play.

And I think the mere concept of "Brabbler The Hound" deserves some type of overdue literary award (my book is out in the car, but it has a *hilarious* description of this fictional canine - I'll fetch it later and pen it here).

I finished Act V Scene 2 yesterday, and noticed that there are fully 8 scenes remaining in the play, but only about 20 pages left in the book, so they'll be coming fast-and-furious from this point forward. I bought my first copy of "Troilus and Cressida" in a used bookstore in London in the Spring of 2003 - I have been trying to finish this play for over eleven years! And I'm now just about there! Yes, a sense - a huge sense - of accomplishment, and this is the last unread book of my life (I've recently finished two or three that had remained unfinished for years). I cannot tell you what a good feeling this is.

[porcupine]

porcupine, I don't mean to doubt you, but I can't believe you've never read a play you thought was great. Really?

I didn't explain myself well.  I meant that works of literature have details and scripts often don't.  Sometimes my imagination can fill in the gaps, sometimes not.  A work of literature describes the light of the rising sun, the sudden burst of bird chatter, the chill in the air, frost on the grass, the expression on the lover's face as the other arrives, etc., building the whole scene in the reader's imagination.  A script - especially an early theater script, like Shakespeare, says "Enter Troilus".   I do not get the same thrill from reading a script that I do from reading a work of literature.

Something you may not have noticed in Act IV Scene 4, Line 2670, immediately after the extended kissing scene. Everyone says in unison, after a trumpet blows off-stage: "The Trojan's trumpet!" This would be heard by the audience as, "The Trojan strumpet!" It doesn't get much funnier than this.

And this is a good example.  A reader might not pick up on this (unless she's reading aloud, which is a good thing to do with a script), but a good actor/director will make sure the audience gets it.

As for my experience with Troilus and Cressida, I read it in college for a class in Shakespeare and wrote a paper on it, but that was decades ago.  I loved Shakespeare and read most of his works; also I've always had a thing for the whole Trojan war story and gobbled up just about anything related to it.  Anyway I don't recall enough detail to join the conversation, nor have I been reading the scenes as you post them; my reading list is miles long and getting longer all the time.

[DIShGo]

Something you may not have noticed in Act IV Scene 4, Line 2670, immediately after the extended kissing scene. Everyone says in unison, after a trumpet blows off-stage: "The Trojan's trumpet!" This would be heard by the audience as, "The Trojan strumpet!" It doesn't get much funnier than this.

That IS funny!

I know I've said this before, but it's amazing how much Thersites reminds me of Fool in King Lear. Yes, he's a venom-tongued viper, but he speaks the truth - always - and he's nobody's fool. In fact, he's my favorite character in this play.

It doesn't surprise me that you like this character. In my copy of the book, the introduction talks about how there are a lot of puns in this play, and how Thersites makes most of them.

I didn't explain myself well. I meant that works of literature have details and scripts often don't. Sometimes my imagination can fill in the gaps, sometimes not. A work of literature describes the light of the rising sun, the sudden burst of bird chatter, the chill in the air, frost on the grass, the expression on the lover's face as the other arrives, etc., building the whole scene in the reader's imagination. A script - especially an early theater script, like Shakespeare, says "Enter Troilus". I do not get the same thrill from reading a script that I do from reading a work of literature.

And this is a good example. A reader might not pick up on this (unless she's reading aloud, which is a good thing to do with a script), but a good actor/director will make sure the audience gets it.

As for my experience with Troilus and Cressida, I read it in college for a class in Shakespeare and wrote a paper on it, but that was decades ago. I loved Shakespeare and read most of his works; also I've always had a thing for the whole Trojan war story and gobbled up just about anything related to it. Anyway I don't recall enough detail to join the conversation, nor have I been reading the scenes as you post them; my reading list is miles long and getting longer all the time.

I completely understand about the mile long reading list. I have been trying to get through "One Hundred Years of Solitude" for months now. It would have been great to have you participate in this discussion, however! I enjoy your thoughtful and well-written literary analysis.

Maybe someday, if you stumble upon your old college paper in a closet somewhere, you can add your two cents and enlighten us on this topic!

[DIShGo]

I got so caught up in Act V this morning, I found myself reading Scene 3 before I realized I'd finished Scene 1! Poor Troilus. I feel sorry for him.

Thersites' commentary makes these scenes. I love all of the clever wordplay. If only people today were so creative when insulting each other.

[DonRocks]

I got so caught up in Act V this morning, I found myself reading Scene 3 before I realized I'd finished Scene 1! Poor Troilus. I feel sorry for him.

Thersites' commentary makes these scenes. I love all of the clever wordplay. If only people today were so creative when insulting each other.

Scene 3 is the one in Calchas' tent, right?

Think about this: Why is Thersites even there?

You have Diomedes and Cressida, Ulysses (perhaps my second-favorite character, btw) and poor Troilus who is going insane with jealousy, and ... Thersites.

I think he's there just to make witty commentary; his presence serves no other purpose.

(I, too, was almost finished with Act V Scene 2 while still thinking I was on Scene 1.)

Do you think Cressida did anything *that* bad with Diomedes? This is probably what porcupine is referring to - it's up to the Director to make it *look* bad. I was at the gym when I read this, and still don't quite understand the back-and-forth bit with the sleeve - maybe Troilus looked upon that as the ultimate betrayal?

[DIShGo]

Scene 3 is the one in Calchas' tent, right?

Think about this: Why is Thersites even there?

You have Diomedes and Cressida, Ulysses and poor Troilus who is going insane with jealousy, and ... Thersites.

I think he's there just to make witty commentary; his presence serves no other purpose.

(I, too, was almost finished with Act V Scene 2 while still thinking I was on Scene 1.)

I wondered that myself. I see no reason for him to be there other than to amuse us with his witty commentary, and that he does.

[DonRocks]

Act V, Scene 2

The same. Before Calchas' tent.

[Enter DIOMEDES]

• Diomedes. What, are you up here, ho? speak.

• Calchas. [Within] Who calls?

• Diomedes. Calchas, I think. Where's your daughter?

• Calchas. [Within] She comes to you. 
  [Enter TROILUS and ULYSSES, at a distance;] 3050
  after them, THERSITES]

• Ulysses. Stand where the torch may not discover us.

[Enter CRESSIDA]

• Troilus. Cressid comes forth to him.

• Diomedes. How now, my charge!3055

• Cressida. Now, my sweet guardian! Hark, a word with you.

[Whispers]

• Troilus. Yea, so familiar!

• Ulysses. She will sing any man at first sight.

• Thersites. And any man may sing her, if he can take her cliff; 3060
  she's noted.

• Diomedes. Will you remember?

• Cressida. Remember! yes.

• Diomedes. Nay, but do, then; 
  And let your mind be coupled with your words.3065

• Troilus. What should she remember?

• Ulysses. List.

• Cressida. Sweet honey Greek, tempt me no more to folly.

• Thersites. Roguery!

• Diomedes. Nay, then,"”3070

• Cressida. I'll tell you what,"”

• Diomedes. Foh, foh! come, tell a pin: you are forsworn.

• Cressida. In faith, I cannot: what would you have me do?

• Thersites. A juggling trick,"”to be secretly open.

• Diomedes. What did you swear you would bestow on me?3075

• Cressida. I prithee, do not hold me to mine oath; 
  Bid me do any thing but that, sweet Greek.

• Diomedes. Good night.

• Troilus. Hold, patience!

• Ulysses. How now, Trojan!3080

• Cressida. Diomed,"”

• Diomedes. No, no, good night: I'll be your fool no more.

• Troilus. Thy better must.

• Cressida. Hark, one word in your ear.

• Troilus. O plague and madness!3085

• Ulysses. You are moved, prince; let us depart, I pray you, 
  Lest your displeasure should enlarge itself 
  To wrathful terms: this place is dangerous; 
  The time right deadly; I beseech you, go.

• Troilus. Behold, I pray you!3090

• Ulysses. Nay, good my lord, go off: 
  You flow to great distraction; come, my lord.

• Troilus. I pray thee, stay.

• Ulysses. You have not patience; come.

• Troilus. I pray you, stay; by hell and all hell's torments 3095
  I will not speak a word!

• Diomedes. And so, good night.

• Cressida. Nay, but you part in anger.

• Troilus. Doth that grieve thee? 
  O wither'd truth!3100

• Ulysses. Why, how now, lord!

• Troilus. By Jove, 
  I will be patient.

• Cressida. Guardian!"”why, Greek!

• Diomedes. Foh, foh! adieu; you palter.3105

• Cressida. In faith, I do not: come hither once again.

• Ulysses. You shake, my lord, at something: will you go? 
  You will break out.

• Troilus. She strokes his cheek!

• Ulysses. Come, come.3110

• Troilus. Nay, stay; by Jove, I will not speak a word: 
  There is between my will and all offences 
  A guard of patience: stay a little while.

• Thersites. How the devil Luxury, with his fat rump and 
  potato-finger, tickles these together! Fry, lechery, fry!3115

• Diomedes. But will you, then?

• Cressida. In faith, I will, la; never trust me else.

• Diomedes. Give me some token for the surety of it.

• Cressida. I'll fetch you one.

[Exit]

• Ulysses. You have sworn patience.

• Troilus. Fear me not, sweet lord; 
  I will not be myself, nor have cognition 
  Of what I feel: I am all patience.

[Re-enter CRESSIDA]

• Thersites. Now the pledge; now, now, now!

• Cressida. Here, Diomed, keep this sleeve.

• Troilus. O beauty! where is thy faith?

• Ulysses. My lord,"”

• Troilus. I will be patient; outwardly I will.3130

• Cressida. You look upon that sleeve; behold it well. 
  He loved me"”O false wench!"”Give't me again.

• Diomedes. Whose was't?

• Cressida. It is no matter, now I have't again. 
  I will not meet with you to-morrow night: 3135
  I prithee, Diomed, visit me no more.

• Thersites. Now she sharpens: well said, whetstone!

• Diomedes. I shall have it.

• Cressida. What, this?

• Diomedes. Ay, that.3140

• Cressida. O, all you gods! O pretty, pretty pledge! 
  Thy master now lies thinking in his bed 
  Of thee and me, and sighs, and takes my glove, 
  And gives memorial dainty kisses to it, 
  As I kiss thee. Nay, do not snatch it from me; 3145
  He that takes that doth take my heart withal.

• Diomedes. I had your heart before, this follows it.

• Troilus. I did swear patience.

• Cressida. You shall not have it, Diomed; faith, you shall not; 
  I'll give you something else.3150

• Diomedes. I will have this: whose was it?

• Cressida. It is no matter.

• Diomedes. Come, tell me whose it was.

• Cressida. 'Twas one's that loved me better than you will. 
  But, now you have it, take it.3155

• Diomedes. Whose was it?

• Cressida. By all Diana's waiting-women yond, 
  And by herself, I will not tell you whose.

• Diomedes. To-morrow will I wear it on my helm, 
  And grieve his spirit that dares not challenge it.3160

• Troilus. Wert thou the devil, and worest it on thy horn, 
  It should be challenged.

• Cressida. Well, well, 'tis done, 'tis past: and yet it is not; 
  I will not keep my word.

• Diomedes. Why, then, farewell; 3165
  Thou never shalt mock Diomed again.

• Cressida. You shall not go: one cannot speak a word, 
  But it straight starts you.

• Diomedes. I do not like this fooling.

• Thersites. Nor I, by Pluto: but that that likes not you pleases me best.3170

• Diomedes. What, shall I come? the hour?

• Cressida. Ay, come:"”O Jove!"”do come:"”I shall be plagued.