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Based on my senior high school hygiene class, which was some three-plus decades ago, therefore challenging my memory, I think it should be mr&mrsrockwell.com. Of course, my hygiene teacher at Girls' High might have been wrong about that.

My sex education teacher was a Monk. :)

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Does anyone still visit Chowhound?  I hope they fired the person who killed off Chowhound.

Before I even begin writing, let me say that since Jim sold Chowhound, he and I have written a couple of times, have traded war stories, etc. I like him a great deal, and consider him the father of on

Thank you, Lori. I want to re-emphasize that your blog is one of the very best in this city, and should be on everyone's list of reading material - you've done it right, and you have an excellent webs

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I got really fed up with Chowhound today and needed to rant. There was someone responding to a post on someone who wanted "Philly-ish" places, especially cocktails. So me being a glutton for punishment who still tries to participate on Chowhound for almost unknown reasons at this point, responded with the normal list of suspects who make great cocktails. Then some girl originally from Philly or spending some time there comments that for cocktails you are shit out of luck and there is nothing like there is in Philly. She of course has never been to PX admits it, and probably hasn't been to the Gibson, Tabard Inn, Central, PS7 and etc, but still even though she hasn't been to the very places that could offer what she is seeking decides to bash the really talented mixologists in our area. GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. That would never happen on here. I find myself posting less and less there and seeing fewer of the old friends I recognized on there and liked to talk to. It is just so sad, it used to be such a different place. I have been a member there back when it was a primitive message board when message boards were just getting started and I would have been using babysitting money to eat out. If people have nothing of substance to offer, why don't they either gain substance or not respond. *Sigh* I wish I felt better after writing this. I don't.

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I got really fed up with Chowhound today and needed to rant. There was someone responding to a post on someone who wanted "Philly-ish" places, especially cocktails. So me being a glutton for punishment who still tries to participate on Chowhound for almost unknown reasons at this point, responded with the normal list of suspects who make great cocktails. Then some girl originally from Philly or spending some time there comments that for cocktails you are shit out of luck and there is nothing like there is in Philly. She of course has never been to PX admits it, and probably hasn't been to the Gibson, Tabard Inn, Central, PS7 and etc, but still even though she hasn't been to the very places that could offer what she is seeking decides to bash the really talented mixologists in our area. GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. That would never happen on here. I find myself posting less and less there and seeing fewer of the old friends I recognized on there and liked to talk to. It is just so sad, it used to be such a different place. I have been a member there back when it was a primitive message board when message boards were just getting started and I would have been using babysitting money to eat out. If people have nothing of substance to offer, why don't they either gain substance or not respond. *Sigh* I wish I felt better after writing this. I don't.

Perhaps you should go have a drink. . .

[Counting down until the one-liner police gets to this. 3. . .2. . .1. . .]

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I think the DC Chowhound board is particularly bad. I've used Chowhound for research purposes in other cities and countries and got some pretty good feedback. Maybe my personal knowledge of the DC restaurants makes it much easier to detect the B.S.. Some posters seem hellbent on libeling restaurants they haven't even been to. Example

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I think the DC Chowhound board is particularly bad. I've used Chowhound for research purposes in other cities and countries and got some pretty good feedback. Maybe my personal knowledge of the DC restaurants makes it much easier to detect the B.S.. Some posters seem hellbent on libeling restaurants they haven't even been to. Example

There are plenty of dickheads on Chowhound (notice that I did call bullshit on a1234 in that thread), but the DC board isn't that bad. I don't learn nearly as much about places as I do here, but I look at my posting there as paying it forward for the times I go to the other CH boards looking for assistance.

There are a solid core of good users there, and interestingly enough, quite a few of them don't also post here.

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There are a solid core of good users there, and interestingly enough, quite a few of them don't also post here.

There's no check and balance on CH. You can't discredit another post no matter how egregious it is and that's what makes CH frustrating to read. There's no accountability from anyone and no peer review. The more I read on CH, the less I think that I trust anyone that posts there.

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I'm going to take the liberty of posting a PM I sent to Ericandblueboy 40 minutes ago (I figure there's no harm in doing so, since I was the one who initiated the conversation). In re-reading what I wrote, I should have said "may not always be experts."

---

I've never really read Chowhound except for the occasional glance, not because I haven't "wanted to," but because I've been so darned busy 1) running eGullet, then 2) running dr.com. I just keep my head down, and work, work, work, trying not to get distracted by everything else that's out there (if I really thought about just how much competition there was, I'd get discouraged, and throw in the towel).

The Chowhound board itself may not be good, but my impression is that the ChowHOUNDS themselves are wonderful. Maybe that has changed too, but damn, these people sure seem like they are passionate about restaurants. Some of our greatest members have come from there (and are almost surely still active there). They may not be experts, but they sure compensate with enthusiasm, and I admire that endlessly.

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There's no check and balance on CH. You can't discredit another post no matter how egregious it is and that's what makes CH frustrating to read. There's no accountability from anyone and no peer review. The more I read on CH, the less I think that I trust anyone that posts there.

All true, and certainly a majority of CH users are no better than those on Yelp. But, again, there are a small number of frequent posters who seem to have a good palate and sense of the DC scene, and those are the posts I follow.

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I've never really read Chowhound except for the occasional glance, not because I haven't "wanted to," but because I've been so darned busy 1) running eGullet, then 2) running dr.com. I just keep my head down, and work, work, work, trying not to get distracted by everything else that's out there (if I really thought about just how much competition there was, I'd get discouraged, and throw in the towel).

The Chowhound board itself may not be good, but my impression is that the ChowHOUNDS themselves are wonderful. Maybe that has changed too, but damn, these people sure seem like they are passionate about restaurants. Some of our greatest members have come from there (and are almost surely still active there). They may not be experts, but they sure compensate with enthusiasm, and I admire that endlessly.

It's late at night so I will post my response which DR may delete before the sun rises.

I don't see any competition as you're not in it for the money, AFAIK. The Chowhounds themselves are a varied lot. Some think they're the most authoritative diners there are. Others are enthusiastic cheerleaders with little knowledge. Still others are out there carrying out their personal vendetta. In any case, you're not allowed to question another poster....thus you have this cesspool of know-it-alls, ass-kissers, and douchebags. As a user of both forums, I can live with less enthusiasm and more accountability - which really distinguishes your website from Yelp, CH and other commercial endeavors.

I know it ain't easy maintaining this forum and I do appreciate the mods who ceaseless index everything so it's user friendly. I hope these last few posts really contrast the members here and those on CH and the philosophy behind these two forums.

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Did I libel someone? This amply illustrates the difference between DR and CH. If you questioned me on CH, you'd get banned. Here I am offered an opportunity to respond to your baseless insinuation.

Did you cast dispersions on a restaurant that you haven't been to? If your beef is people being able to challenge each other, then fair enough and I'd agree with that. If it's that people here are above talking shit for the sake of it, then that's not the case.

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Did you cast dispersions on a restaurant that you haven't been to? If your beef is people being able to challenge each other, then fair enough and I'd agree with that. If it's that people here are above talking shit for the sake of it, then that's not the case.

I assume you mean aspersion and I didn't really mean to cast aspersion on the restaurant, rather I meant to cast aspersion on Spike and people who eat his food. But my main point is peer review and I admit to talking plenty of shit.

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The more I read on CH, the less I think that I trust anyone that posts there.

I trust certain people. People I know, either personally or through an online relationship AND whose opinion I trust. But those people are posting less and less and the general masses are taking over. That is why you see me post a lot less there, and much more here.

Although I too like Daniel see it as a pay it forward to people from other boards who have been helpful, that's why I answer more tourist threads than any other, except perhaps people moving to my area.

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Before I even begin writing, let me say that since Jim sold Chowhound, he and I have written a couple of times, have traded war stories, etc. I like him a great deal, and consider him the father of online restaurant websites. I have nothing but respect for the man, and quite frankly, I have always had nothing but respect for what little I've read on Chowhound over the years. That said ...

"Chowhound's Coup de Grace" by Jim Leff on jimleff.blogspot.com

Even though this blog post is over a year old, I just saw it for the first time five minutes ago, and upon a single cursory read, I take *great* exception to at least three points:

1) "Well, this is supremely unsurprising...." (this being "Inviting Professional Voices to the Community")

We have welcomed industry professionals with open arms since the day we opened on Apr 15, 2005, and still do to this very day. I am proud to say that our membership probably consists of 25-30% industry professionals - from multi-millionaire owners to dishwashers breaking their backs for barely over minimum wage.

Why on earth would I want to create a false dichotomy between diners and the industry? That's not the real world. We're better, stronger, and smarter because we have industry professionals among us.

2) "Chowhound has two unusual points of value: 1. the premium quality of its data, and 2. its tightly-focused audience, which is uniquely discriminating and knowledgeable."

I agree that these two points of value are unusual, and my disagreement lies with the word "uniquely." donrockwell.com is every bit as discriminating and knowledgeable as Chowhound (I would argue "more so"), always has been, and the discrepancy will probably become even wider if Chowhound panders to the lowest common denominator. I honestly don't have time to read it, so I don't know what's going on with it - that is not a slap down; it's just a fact - I'm super-busy running donrockwell.com.

And finally:

3) "They could use a home."

They've got one, right here.

Jim, seriously, why aren't you here? We need people like you. Don't you see that in a way, this is *your* legacy? I don't mind doing the gritty, dirt work that's involved in running a forum - I'm quite good at it; if you were here, you could stick to doing what you love.

That's all I have to say, and I have no beef with Jim whatsoever - I may even write him just to let him know I published this. Jim probably doesn't have time to read donrockwell.com, and most likely doesn't know what we're all about, and I strongly suspect he wasn't even thinking of us when he wrote this piece - that's why I don't have a problem with it, or him. But I needed to say what I just said.

Cheers,

Rocks

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So odd that you're posting about Chowhound.  I used to visit the site regularly for out-of-town restaurants but haven't been there in ages.  I actually forgot about it.  I happened to check it out last night, and noticed the content has really waned.  Not much happening. I will keep my restaurant comments and searches for content here.  

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So odd that you're posting about Chowhound.  I used to visit the site regularly for out-of-town restaurants but haven't been there in ages.  I actually forgot about it.  I happened to check it out last night, and noticed the content has really waned.  Not much happening. I will keep my restaurant comments and searches for content here.  

Thank you, Lori. I want to re-emphasize that your blog is one of the very best in this city, and should be on everyone's list of reading material - you've done it right, and you have an excellent website.

I've purposely not poached the Chowhounds, just as I purposely didn't poach the eGullet members in 2005. But just because I haven't poached them doesn't mean I don't covet them - I would be honored if they came here. We're going to be expanding, and I'm determined to be "the little engine that could," in terms of being able to cover so much track and so many mountains that people don't think it's possible that we're doing it. God I love being challenged, more than you could possibly imagine.

And I don't give a flying fuck about money; I just want people to be happy.

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 We're going to be expanding, and I'm determined to be "the little engine that could," in terms of being able to cover so much track and so many mountains that people don't think it's possible that we're doing it. God I love being challenged, more than you could possibly imagine.

And I don't give a flying fuck about money; I just want people to be happy.

You strangely interest me.  Whatzup?????

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So odd that you're posting about Chowhound.  I used to visit the site regularly for out-of-town restaurants but haven't been there in ages.  I actually forgot about it.  I happened to check it out last night, and noticed the content has really waned.  Not much happening. I will keep my restaurant comments and searches for content here.  

I was a real Chowhound regular for years, spending about the time on there that I now spend here, obviously many people have moved on because when I go on there, I see only a couple new posts a day, obviously daily use of the site by many of the regulars has really dropped off.

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I've purposely not poached the Chowhounds ... But just because I haven't poached them doesn't mean I don't covet them - I would be honored if they came here. 

As much as one can be, since there aren't a lot of posts these days, I'm still a "regular" on CH, and know many of the frequent posters, as we do share meals from time to time.

I can tell you that pretty much all of them are members here, even if many of them don't post regularly. But posting "regularly" on CH and "occasionally" here, are pretty much the same volume of posts.

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You broke it, you bought it...

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The only person who I think really has a large source of knowledge that I don't regularly see here, but I think he has an account is Steve, but I have his email address and see him from time to time at his chow lunches/dinners.  He has a lot of knowledge on small ethnic joints.  I do agree that I think most the rest are here already.

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Steve has an account and I'm always bugging him to post here. He does a great job organizing the "unofficial" Chowhound lunches/dinners.

I recognize that name from over there. Yeah! He should post here. Same thing for "Monkeyrotica". I see their names all the time over there.

In other news, the look of chowhound has totally changed. Major website redesign. I don't like it, but then again, I fear change!

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Just to make it perfectly clear, I'm not the "Steve" youse guys are referring to.   I'm the one who has no local DC knowledge base & doesn't organize lunches/dinners in your neck of the woods.

However, both Steve and I are on CH (although he's a newbie who's only been there for 10 or so years; I go back to the beginnings of CH, eG, OA and MF"¦. and olde Breuklin, before we were hip & trendy).   And, if I can post here from hundreds of miles away, he should be posting here as well"¦ tell him I said so.

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However, both Steve and I are on CH (although he's a newbie who's only been there for 10 or so years; I go back to the beginnings of CH, eG, OA and MF"¦. and olde Breuklin, before we were hip & trendy).   And, if I can post here from hundreds of miles away, he should be posting here as well"¦ tell him I said so.

AFAIK Steve Siegel (I can use his real name because it's in his Chow public profile) has been on CH for a lot more than 10 years, but CH only shows posts going back about 10 years these days (I guess when the new software came in) so no way to know exactly.  I've been away from DC myself for almost 10 years now, and we were having Chow get-togethers long before I left.

Another one from CH who ought to post here (maybe is under another name?) is alkapal.

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CH only shows posts going back about 10 years these days (I guess when the new software came in) so no way to know exactly. 

Are you sure about this?

I guess in terms of "currency of information," it would make sense to only show the past 1-2 years, so thinking in those terms, anything that's 10 years old is completely outdated.

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Just to make it perfectly clear, I'm not the "Steve" youse guys are referring to.   I'm the one who has no local DC knowledge base & doesn't organize lunches/dinners in your neck of the woods.

So you aren't the nice, smart, very knowledgable and congenial Steve, huh?  (JK, totally JK.)  "Ah, the good old, old chowhound days, the beginning stages of the internet would probably be barely recognizable to youngins out there today," said by someone in their thirties.

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I am also guessing that many on Chowhound have recently left and as my wife and I looked for a home that Thanksgiving, are looking for a new home...here.

I really appreciate you saying this (and maybe you can fill us in on this, too), and I would love to provide the Chowhounds with a place to call home, but I honestly don't see what's so bad about the new version, and you're the second person here to say they don't like it.

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I really appreciate you saying this (and maybe you can fill us in on this, too), and I would love to provide the Chowhounds with a place to call home, but I honestly don't see what's so bad about the new version, and you're the second person here to say they don't like it.

It may be true that the "new" chowhound isn't as different from the previous version as many have come to believe it is.  But there may a more fundamental issue at work in this change in look.  As I said earlier today in a response to an email which has been circulating among some DC area like-minded folks (many of them already members here on DR), my take is that CH changed its look to attract a younger hipper crowd, that is more likely to generate revenue for the site, something that the older grey-hair demographic on CH has not done to their satisfaction.  In short, as usual, it's all about money, and they don't really care if we old timers disappear since we weren't clicking on their ads anyway.  So be it.  Good opportunity for other quality boards like this one to gain members, and I hope it happens.  The downside for CH is it may reduce their content to the point that they have shot themselves in the foot, if indeed that impairs their ability to attract these new members they want as they drop below the critical mass that's needed.  Already some new boards have come into existence in reaction to the CH changes, further raising the critical mass problem.  Challenging times for food-related message boards generally.   We'll see how it all shakes out.

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... I honestly don't see what's so bad about the new version, and you're the second person here to say they don't like it.

The new visual interface makes it much harder to read posts, IMO, and especially to tell which topics have new posts.

Traffic is down well more than 50% on the DC board, since the redesign.

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The new visual interface makes it much harder to read posts, IMO, and especially to tell which topics have new posts.

Traffic is down well more than 50% on the DC board, since the redesign.

This may surprise people, but this doesn't make me happy. Watching others struggle brings me no joy. We do what we do and that doesn't change, and if people come, that's great, but I take no comfort in the sufferings of any decent person or business. It makes me sad that people so quickly stopped talking about Steven Shaw and Josh Ozersky - I, for one, have not forgotten.

Anyway, Hounds, if you're already here, write me and let me know. I'd like to say hello.

Want to know something else? I covet the AARP more than I covet Yelp. Older people are smarter, wiser, more worldly, and perhaps even more appreciative of younger people (assuming I'm "younger") showing them some respect. I hope our demographic gets even older. And not just the five of us who post in the Fine Arts Forum; I mean out readership, which is supposedly typically female, with an advanced degree, ages 25-35 last I checked. Remember, I asked Karen just before she died what I was supposed to do with the rest of my life, and her final instructions to me were, "Do something to help older people," so we have stronger forces than financial ones at play here. Her mom and aunt are staying with me now for two weeks.

I hope you can tell from yesterday, my first day back in town, that I haven't forgotten our origins.

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I, as well as, a couple other both Chow/DR members have encouraged anyone from Chow that either is feeling a bit homeless, or lurks on here to bring us your fabulous knowledge!!  I miss your posts on Chow (which I know have dropped I see it, and I know the people's posts I really miss) and would love to see them here!  And we could use more get-togethers, which is something Steve (as noted above, not Steve R.) is really great at.  I have seen a great drop in meaningful posts at Chow since the major redesign back when it was sold, for me that was the end, but this new format to me is even more the end of the end.  Kind of like a quagmire in a quagmire, I guess.  (Insert Larry David doing some shaky hands here.)

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This has been my food home for some time. Having run a very small food forum for a couple of years, I know how hard it is. I also know how fractured the space is. Places like Chowhound, Yelp, OpenTable, TripAdvisor and even the major social media sites have huge volumes of traffic and people reading and using that information. It is fantastic that a site like this exists and has such a regular and well informed contributing community. I cherish it.

I come here to seek food advice of all sorts. Even when traveling abroad, while I may not get my answers here in a complete way, I will be pointed in the right direction for sure, and further info can then be gleaned and discussed based on the direction I have been pointed in.

While it sucks to see a site change gears dramatically and knowingly jettison some of their community in the process, in the end it is a business decision. Most sites that generate revenue off of advertising need to develop the core desired advestising group - 18 to 54, ideally 18 to 30.

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When I first started going to Ft. Lauderdale I checked up on Chowhound.com for that area. Days would pass without a single post or comment. And a very few people respond to inquiries from tourists to the area. It was never a robust source of information, but the new format, for me, is a complete turn-off.

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This has been my food home for some time. Having run a very small food forum for a couple of years, I know how hard it is. I also know how fractured the space is. Places like Chowhound, Yelp, OpenTable, TripAdvisor and even the major social media sites have huge volumes of traffic and people reading and using that information. It is fantastic that a site like this exists and has such a regular and well informed contributing community. I cherish it.

I come here to seek food advice of all sorts. Even when traveling abroad, while I may not get my answers here in a complete way, I will be pointed in the right direction for sure, and further info can then be gleaned and discussed based on the direction I have been pointed in.

Comments like this mean more to me than money, and stumbling across something like this on occasion is what keeps me going. Even if I die in poverty, I'll die a rich man - thank you, Thomas.

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When I first started going to Ft. Lauderdale I checked up on Chowhound.com for that area. Days would pass without a single post or comment. And a very few people respond to inquiries from tourists to the area. It was never a robust source of information, but the new format, for me, is a complete turn-off.

Some boards, such as Las Vegas and New Orleans, were active in helping tourists find good places (in the case of LV, it was all tourists, but some visit there frequently and posted a lot).  But both those boards have dropped off considerably since the new format -- in fact, I looked at the LV board recently and the first post was by Dave Feldman, a regular there, commenting about how it had fallen off.

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Comments like this mean more to me than money, and stumbling across something like this on occasion is what keeps me going. Even if I die in poverty, I'll die a rich man - thank you, Thomas.

Dude there is quantity and there is quality. Yelp and its ilk have quantity, ditto for social media, this place has both.

I remember laughing out loud when I saw a FB comment giving Grill Room 1 out of a possible 5 stars. What a hoot.

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I've simply stopped going to Chowhound since they changed their interface recently.

(Remember how Digg lost a whole lot of followers when they changed interface? I wonder if that'll happen to Chowhound.)

Look, there's going to come a day when we change our interface (no plans of any type yet, I promise) because our interface is primitive. Logical, but primitive.

I would never make it something that's *less* useful than what we have, for whatever that's worth. And it's not going to happen anytime soon, so don't worry.

I'm a content hound - I figure when investment money arrives, some suit-and-tie can help me with the interface, but I also know what I simply won't tolerate.

And if we ever open up a forum for a new city (hint, hint), the Dining Guide for that forum will be better than what we currently have for any of our cities (in terms of presentation; nothing, anywhere, will ever surpass our DC Dining Guide in terms of authoritative content). Figure six months unless I get some help, and it's going to be awesome.

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