Service: How Bad is Too Bad?

[DaRiv18]

Not really important but I read "the tuna salad" and assumed it was more like a salad with tuna (seared, grilled, etc).

I think you're right, which makes it even worse. I can see a guy eating the 2nd half of another guy's sandwich (presumably cut into halves), and was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. A guy eating another guy's half-eaten salad is just wrong.

[Heather]

I think you're right, which makes it even worse. I can see a guy eating the 2nd half of another guy's sandwich (presumably cut into halves), and was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. A guy eating another guy's half-eaten salad is just wrong.

Whether or not he ate the other person's salad is completely irrelevant.

I have worked in Customer Service since 1989. You do not make personal comments about customers, end of story. If that waiter worked for me and I got a complaint like the one in Tom's chat, he would be fired - because I can't imagine training someone to think that those kinds of personal comments about a customer are acceptable. The waiter was rude.

[Waitman]

What ever happened to complaining to the manager?

Whenever I say something critical to the manager, waiter or chef, I can always tell that they're just fucking overjoyed to get honest feedback from a customer. The look I get always turns a bad night good. The more abstract the complaint -- waiter attitude, as opposed to overdone meat -- the happier they are to hear from me. Plus, since I love awkward confrontations, it's like having two desserts.

[lperry]

Whenever I say something critical to the manager, waiter or chef, I can always tell that they're just fucking overjoyed to get honest feedback from a customer. The look I get always turns a bad night good. The more abstract the complaint -- waiter attitude, as opposed to overdone meat -- the happier they are to hear from me. Plus, since I love awkward confrontations, it's like having two desserts.

What he said. Also, knowing that the server will be so grateful for my constructive criticism that s/he won't even think of messing with my food really seals the deal.

Sometimes it's about making the best of a bad situation and getting out quickly with the evening at least somewhat intact.

[leleboo]

Whenever I say something critical to the manager, waiter or chef, I can always tell that they're just fucking overjoyed to get honest feedback from a customer. The look I get always turns a bad night good. The more abstract the complaint -- waiter attitude, as opposed to overdone meat -- the happier they are to hear from me. Plus, since I love awkward confrontations, it's like having two desserts.

What he said. Also, knowing that the server will be so grateful for my constructive criticism that s/he won't even think of messing with my food really seals the deal.

Sometimes it's about making the best of a bad situation and getting out quickly with the evening at least somewhat intact.

Oh, man, I totally love awkward confrontation too.

In all seriousness, I think the salient point is one that we often come back to in these threads about the various critics' chats: without a forum like TS's, or this one -- or, well, without the internet in general (or letters to the editor?) -- the only recourse would be to talk to the manager. Now the availability of an anonymous place to vent makes that even less compelling than it was before, but maybe it also makes us whinier?

I think you're right, which makes it even worse. I can see a guy eating the 2nd half of another guy's sandwich (presumably cut into halves), and was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. A guy eating another guy's half-eaten salad is just wrong.

Would it be different if these were two women, i.e. is "guy" a gendered noun in this case, or generic? And regardless of the answer ... why is it so much worse? A germ thing? An amount of food thing?

Or am I missing the sarcasm?

[DaRiv18]

Since I eat 95% of my meals at the bar, maybe I'm the wrong person to weigh in on table service. I guess the bar is more of a public space, and it's more acceptable for a bartender to make personal comments about the customer.

I have worked in Customer Service since 1989. You do not make personal comments about customers, end of story.

Why? What untrumpable code is being broken, that context doesn't even matter? So, no compliments either? I truly don't understand this. Hospitality in the business context is much different than in its religious or mythological obligations. So if we're talking about hospitality as good business, maybe entertaining a group of diners at the playful expense of one is legit.

Please note that I'm not saying the waiter was right, or that he wasn't wrong. I do think the chatter over-reacted big time.

leleboo, it is an intimacy thing. It's not necessarily gendered. I eat family style all the time, but I use my own dedicated plate when I share communal food. If I finished the 2nd half of a woman's salad in front of my wife, is not a scandal foreseeable? If the chatter is the tuna salad guy's lover, then I guess have at it. If not, then it's just wrong.

The exception to this clearly-correct rule is the sharing of any fried food (e.g. nachos, wings). If the tuna in question was served on Rasika's flash-fried spinach salad, then I guess I have to take it all back. Search your heart, you know all this to be true.

Edited August 14, 2010 by DaRiv18

[Heather]

Why? What untrumpable code is being broken, that context doesn't even matter? So, no compliments either? I truly don't understand this.

As I suspect you already know, I meant derogatory personal comments. As to why, because it's bad manners.

Compliments are fine, I guess, but really, does anyone care whether your waiter likes your tie, or thinks your hair looks pretty? I don't expect my server to comment on my appearance, companions, or appetite.

[lperry]

In all seriousness, I think the salient point is one that we often come back to in these threads about the various critics' chats: without a forum like TS's, or this one -- or, well, without the internet in general (or letters to the editor?) -- the only recourse would be to talk to the manager. Now the availability of an anonymous place to vent makes that even less compelling than it was before, but maybe it also makes us whinier

I think it allows people who would otherwise not speak up in person a venue to vent, and, because it isn't a face-to-face conversation, sometimes people forget that they are dealing with a fellow human being. Whether or not people are whinier, I don't know. I do think the number of people who will point out issues has grown now that there is another place to complain, so maybe the increased numbers of complaints appear to represent a whinier populace.

FWIW, I have been in two situations where we spoke to the manager. One turned out well, and another turned into a nightmare with the server acting horribly the remainder of the evening. Guess which situation governs my behavior now? I, like many people I know, am more likely to ask for the bill, get up and leave, and never come back than speak to a manager.

Dean - I understand your point of view - I realize most managers would rather make things right on the spot and retain the customer. I am more likely to speak up if a manager asks me about my meal at a point where there can't be any retaliation by a server.

[B.A.R.]

But chatting to Tom has value?

Complaining to Tom has absolutely no value. It is the ultimate in passive-aggressive behavior and he really shouldn't address complaints about a specific incident in a specific restaurant in his online chat forum.

But since the cat is already out of the bag, it gives us something to discuss.

[lperry]

Complaining to Tom has absolutely no value. It is the ultimate in passive-aggressive behavior and he really shouldn't address complaints about a specific incident in a specific restaurant in his online chat forum.

Dinner out is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable, not a venue for correcting someone else's poor behavior. Maybe people need to be given different options. How about little cards like hotels and car service departments use? This would allow people to feel somewhat anonymous, which seems to be important to many, but would still allow the restaurant the chance to correct the issue privately?

[Waitman]

Complaining to Tom has absolutely no value. It is the ultimate in passive-aggressive behavior and he really shouldn't address complaints about a specific incident in a specific restaurant in his online chat forum.

But since the cat is already out of the bag, it gives us something to discuss.

I disagree. Complaining to Tom gives all of us who read him another data point about a restaurant, and almost guarantees that the restaurant in question will at least mention something to the server, both valuable services. In general, it likely leads management and staff to err a little more towards better customer care, for fear of ending up on line. I like that thought, too.

In this case, since the restaurant in question wasn't mentioned, it's essentially harmless venting, and there's no reason not to do it.

[Antonio Burrell]

What he said. Also, knowing that the server will be so grateful for my constructive criticism that s/he won't even think of messing with my food really seals the deal.

I'm sorry, but if anyone avoid making comments to the waiter or management for poor food because you are scared someone will so "something" to it, you are eating in the wrong restaurants. (I tried to multiquote but am to stooopid to figure it out so this isn't just in relation to the above post, but others with the same thinking) Sure, we've all seen movies where a cook spits in your food or drops it on the floor, or your server doing something disgusting to it, but seriously, do you really think it happens? I've been working in kitchens for 16 years now and have never, I repeat, NEVER, seen anything like that happen. I've worked at Applebee's in college and all the way up to Aquavit and Vidalia and on every level, it's always about making the customer happy. Sure there maybe some underthebreath grumblings from the kitchen, but that's what happens when you are busy, but in the end the food always gets remade whether we agree that it was wrong or not. Point is that most restaurants don't get a chance to make things better for the customer and only find out that anyone had issues in forums like this and Tom's chat.

[lperry]

Sure, we've all seen movies where a cook spits in your food or drops it on the floor, or your server doing something disgusting to it, but seriously, do you really think it happens?

I know it does. I personally know two people who have done it. They were college kids at the time, and one told me how she would spit in the food, and the other put rotted and moldy ingredients in pizzas for pushy customers. I was shocked, but they said it happened "all the time." Those stories are always in the back of my mind when there is a situation that merits complaint.

We travel a lot. Sometimes you aren't in a situation to eat in a restaurant where you know the customer comes first, and if your server is already acting badly, why on earth would you trust him/her? Going even further, if the management puts someone who is poorly trained on the floor, why would you trust the restaurant to make something right?

I understand the point of view of the restaurant, but also that of the customer who is not comfortable complaining in person. If restaurants really want to address the issue, they should stop bitching about the people who complain on line, which just makes those people more angry, and give them a better way to address the problem in person at the restaurant. I really think a basket at the door with cards would work.

Edited to add example three from Grad School in Illinois - Two friends were at a restaurant and kept reminding the server that she had forgotten a sandwich. Time passed, reminders ensued, other items arrived, more reminders were given. For whatever reason, it became an issue with the server to the point that she didn't want to bring the sandwich, and when it did finally come, my friend's husband opened it to add salt (he's odd that way) only to see that the tomato slice had a huge, black part in the center. Clearly, the intent was to have the pushy customer bite into the rotten tomato.

[B.A.R.]

I am sure that it happens. And I am equally sure it is extremely rare, on the order of 1 in a million entrees rare. In 16 years of working in the restaurant industry, I have never seen it hapen.

[KMango]

I am sure that it happens. And I am equally sure it is extremely rare, on the order of 1 in a million entrees rare. In 16 years of working in the restaurant industry, I have never seen it hapen.

In four years of working in it, I saw it happen a handful of times. Granted, never in the more upscale venues, most of the four years were in low-to-mid price restaurants where most of us were working to pay for college tuition.

As with all things in life, ymmv.

Which is why we all have to choose our roads wisely.

And, to ground back in the topic, one of those people was caught spitting in the food and did not get fired. The "manager" laughed. Needless to say, I found another place to work, in a hurry.

[lperry]

And, to ground back in the topic, one of those people was caught spitting in the food and did not get fired. The "manager" laughed. Needless to say, I found another place to work, in a hurry.

Wow. I waitressed for five years and never saw it happen. I think it comes down to the management. I worked for a lovely person who tried her best to make the customers happy, and we followed suit.

[DaRiv18]

Would it be different if these were two women, i.e. is "guy" a gendered noun in this case, or generic?

Skimming over the responses to this issue, actually, I do see a gender issue here. Most of the males seem to be willing to hear the context of the tape-worm comment. The females, and Tom S., seem to think that joking about someone's appetite is categorically unacceptable and even merits dismissal.

Upon further thought, I would be much more critical of the waiter if he had joked with a female about her endless appetite. That is right up there with "never hit a woman" in the Man Code. Context matters.

Edited August 16, 2010 by DaRiv18

[deangold]

Almost 30 years in the food and wine world and I know of one chef, very famous with a name that would be known here {though he works in LA mostly} who did stuff like giving a piece of old meat to a customer who ordered a well done filet saying "they won't know the farking difference!' I know of another, with an empire, who used to harrass his employees {almost 30 years ago, and since they never filed a complaint againt him so who am I to name names}.

Other than that, I have never seen it or heard of it actually happening. I used to sell wine and spent innumerable hours in a lot of kitchen's as I loved chef driven restaurants and sold enough small boutique wines at the time to specialize.