Cooking A Steak

[xcanuck]

The reason that Landrum and other steak house owners don't use this method is they're not cooking over charcoal grills and their gas grills get much hotter than ours do.

FWIW, I've discussed the CI low oven/high sear method with Michael a few times and it wasn't met with any skepticism on his part. The point of this method seems to be to eliminate the the grey area between the charred outside and the red rare interior (or as he put it, the "mantle"). I've used the low oven to bring a very thick steak to an internal temp of about 95F and then finished it on blazing hot grill situated on top of my chimney starter. The result was virtually zero mantle - just a crispy char and then straight to deep red rare meat. The downside is that there wasn't any smoke flavour.

As for it being a waste of time and energy, I usually don't consider time and energy spent creating a good meal to be a waste. If that's your criteria, then maybe you should eat at McDonald's.

Going back to Daniel's original question of using this method with a hanger steak, my personal opinion would be to pass on it. If you're getting good quality hangers (and I have my suspicions that I know where they come from ), then maybe the best thing would be to get your cast iron pan as hot as you can get it, season the steaks well, and sear it in the pan. I've also tried putting hangers directly on lit hardwood with great results (assuming you like char and your steaks done quite rare).

[Waitman]

Michael also has access to superior cuts of beef, specialized equipment, and has the time and drive to quality control his dry aging. What works at a restaurant doesn't necessarily work at home. I don't feel like less of a man when I use my oven's broiler instead of an industrial-sized salamander (which is not to say that having one wouldn't make me feel like MORE of a man).

Though, actually, he wet ages (uless he's changed methods recently).

[Heather]

If you're getting good quality hangers (and I have my suspicions that I know where they come from ), then maybe the best thing would be to get your cast iron pan as hot as you can get it, season the steaks well, and sear it in the pan.

For hanger, we do the sear then very low oven for a couple of minutes - it keeps the steaks warm while we make a sauce. They come out perfect every time. The trick is to get the pan screaming hot first, and turn off the smoke alarm.

[blakegwinn]

The reason that Landrum and other steak house owners don't use this method is they're not cooking over charcoal grills and their gas grills get much hotter than ours do.

FWIW, I've discussed the CI low oven/high sear method with Michael a few times and it wasn't met with any skepticism on his part. The point of this method seems to be to eliminate the the grey area between the charred outside and the red rare interior (or as he put it, the "mantle"). I've used the low oven to bring a very thick steak to an internal temp of about 95F and then finished it on blazing hot grill situated on top of my chimney starter. The result was virtually zero mantle - just a crispy char and then straight to deep red rare meat. The downside is that there wasn't any smoke flavour.

As for it being a waste of time and energy, I usually don't consider time and energy spent creating a good meal to be a waste. If that's your criteria, then maybe you should eat at McDonald's.

Unfortunately I am not even missing out on the smoke flavor when I do this method as I don't have access to a grill since moving to my current apartment. (And the prospect of summer just doesn't seem to bring me the same joy as a result...) I agree no time is wasted to make a good meal I just thought that with something like a hanger you could get similar results without the low oven. My worry that, depending on the thickness, doing the low oven and then searing it long enough to get a good crust might actually overcook it. If the steak is room temp. I think you could go right to the sear and still get a rare/med rare.

[Dave Pressley]

If The steaks are think I put tin foil over steaks to keep heat down low, probably gets over 1000 degrees that way.

What does this mean? I'm getting a headache re-reading it over and over to understand it.

FWIW, there are a number of techniques out there that work just fine. The high heat sear is nice for those of us that enjoy a nice char on their steak. The low sear method works perfectly fine as well. It certainly is not an "urban myth". You can broil a steak to medium rare if you want in the oven. It just another way to apply dry heat to a piece of meat.

Restaurants choose to use the high heat method out of necessity. a) We need to get the steaks out more quickly than a home cook does. b- We train our line cooks one way to cook pieces of meat. Using a low heat method would leave too much room for interpretation by the line cook and that can be a bad thing. c) There is just not enough room on most kitchen lines to have 6-20 pans at a time on burners with individual pieces of meat on them. Not happening.

IMHO, most dry meat is caused by the cook piercing the meat when they pick it up with a fork rather than using tongs (or worse yet, the cook that SLICES THE MEAT to check doneness) thereby bleeding the juices out of the meat, not properly resting it before slicing, poorly marbled raw product and simply overcooking.

Just my two cents. I don't profess to be a steak expert or anything, but I've cooked a lot of them (using both methods) and have had a lot of success with each.

[Al Dente]

For hanger, we do the sear then very low oven for a couple of minutes - it keeps the steaks warm while we make a sauce. They come out perfect every time. The trick is to get the pan screaming hot first, and turn off the smoke alarm.

Smoke alarm tip: grab a chair, a plastic bag, and a rubber band. Stand on chair under over-sensitive alarm, slap bag over it and fasten with rubber band. I've heard of keeping shower caps on hand for this operation. Don't forget to remove once the smoke has cleared.

[blakegwinn]

Smoke alarm tip: grab a chair, a plastic bag, and a rubber band. Stand on chair under over-sensitive alarm, slap bag over it and fasten with rubber band. I've heard of keeping shower caps on hand for this operation. Don't forget to remove once the smoke has cleared.

Hahaha I actually got bitched out by my buildings maintenance guy for this last week. I had done a stir fry the night before and forgotten to take the bag off. Just happened to be the day he came by to switch over the heat to AC.

[DanielK]

Going back to Daniel's original question of using this method with a hanger steak, my personal opinion would be to pass on it. If you're getting good quality hangers (and I have my suspicions that I know where they come from ), then maybe the best thing would be to get your cast iron pan as hot as you can get it, season the steaks well, and sear it in the pan.

They were actually from Balducci's, and that's exactly how we usually cook them (and did last night). Came out just fine.

I'll save trying the CI method for the next time that I get some NYStrips from the place you thought I was getting them from.

[Pat]

Might I use a recipe for bavette (flap) steak to cook flank steak?

From reading this article, I am unsure.

[TMFIII]

Smoke alarm tip: grab a chair, a plastic bag, and a rubber band. Stand on chair under over-sensitive alarm, slap bag over it and fasten with rubber band. I've heard of keeping shower caps on hand for this operation. Don't forget to remove once the smoke has cleared.

Brilliant!!! The smoke alarm in my apartment is so sensitive, it goes off if I make toast in the morning! Seriously! I found that a plastic chinese takeout container and scotch tape work awefully well. I'll have to try the plastic bag and shower cap idea too!

Oh saving grace . . .

Cheers,

Marshall

[DanCole42]

Might I use a recipe for bavette (flap) steak to cook flank steak?

From reading this article, I am unsure.

I'd say yeah, based on this paragraph:

Like skirt or flank steak, flap meat benefits from marinating and being cooked on high, dry heat, whether grilled, broiled, pan-fried or stir-fried. It's vital to cut the meat very thinly across the grain, and it is at its best not too much past medium-rare.

[Pat]

I'd say yeah, based on this paragraph:

Like skirt or flank steak, flap meat benefits from marinating and being cooked on high, dry heat, whether grilled, broiled, pan-fried or stir-fried. It's vital to cut the meat very thinly across the grain, and it is at its best not too much past medium-rare.

Thanks. I was thinking I'd go ahead with it anyway, though not today. I think it was the part where the article said it was mostly used for stir-fries that seemed to conflict with the other information. Then on the other other hand they talked about the bavette that's a flank steak .

[Pat]

If this is the article that Dan is talking about, I posted it here

For rib eye, that article talks about cutting the steak in half and tying it with twine. Have people been doing that? I've got a 2 inch boneless ribeye I was planning to try this method on, and I'm wondering if I can do it as one piece (it's 1.15 lbs.) or if I need to cut it and tie it for it to come out properly.

[Pat]

Following up my own post here...I did cut the steak in half and tie it, and it came out beautifully.

[DanCole42]

Is it just me, or have the PSMOs (whole tenderloins) available in CostCo/your local megamart gotten smaller in the past year?

I remember when I used to get 10-15 2" filets out of one, or enough decently-sized roasts to feed a nice party.

Here's my latest yield:

Four two-inchers, a butterflied two incher, a small roast (to be paired with an even smaller one), some bloodied chain meat, and a pile of destined-for-tallow scraps.

Has anyone else noticed similar shrinkage? Am I just getting to the store on the day that all the small cows arrived?

[Choirgirl21]

I'm new to the board and today is the first day I wandered into a section other than the restaurant reviews. Let me just tell you that I am thrilled (titillated even?)! I have plans with a friend (the one who introduced me to this board actually) to make steak and have some wine from a wine club we joined together while watching the election results roll in tomorrow night. I'm now planning to try this method, can't wait. Two questions though:

1) There was a recent mention of not piercing the steak, which makes sense, but how is everyone checking that the meat has reached the appropriate 90-95 degree temp in the oven? Or does it only matter that you don't pierce after you've seared the meat? I have a basic digital meat thermometer that will definitely make a hole in my steak if I pierce it. I've gotten pretty good about just gauging when a steak is done based on how I cook it and for how long, but I don't trust myself to know when the meat reaches 90-95 without using my thermometer. Thoughts?

2) Someone complained that after letting the steak rest for 10 minutes it wasn't really warm any more. I'm not sure how she let it rest, I usually just through mine on a rimmed plate to catch the drippings and cover with aluminum foil long enough for me to make a pan sauce if I'm making one, but I'm concerned about it not being hot. What's the highest oven temp anyone has let their steak reach before searing and not had an overdone steak?

FYI, I have no grill or anything like that (condo rules, not allowed) so I'll just be searing in a cast iron pan.

Oh, last question, perhaps idiotic - has anyone ever cooked a steak in their fireplace? Is that just totally insane?

Thanks! Off to read more cooking threads!

[DanCole42]

I'm new to the board and today is the first day I wandered into a section other than the restaurant reviews. Let me just tell you that I am thrilled (titillated even?)! I have plans with a friend (the one who introduced me to this board actually) to make steak and have some wine from a wine club we joined together while watching the election results roll in tomorrow night. I'm now planning to try this method, can't wait. Two questions though:

1) There was a recent mention of not piercing the steak, which makes sense, but how is everyone checking that the meat has reached the appropriate 90-95 degree temp in the oven? Or does it only matter that you don't pierce after you've seared the meat? I have a basic digital meat thermometer that will definitely make a hole in my steak if I pierce it. I've gotten pretty good about just gauging when a steak is done based on how I cook it and for how long, but I don't trust myself to know when the meat reaches 90-95 without using my thermometer. Thoughts?

2) Someone complained that after letting the steak rest for 10 minutes it wasn't really warm any more. I'm not sure how she let it rest, I usually just through mine on a rimmed plate to catch the drippings and cover with aluminum foil long enough for me to make a pan sauce if I'm making one, but I'm concerned about it not being hot. What's the highest oven temp anyone has let their steak reach before searing and not had an overdone steak?

FYI, I have no grill or anything like that (condo rules, not allowed) so I'll just be searing in a cast iron pan.

Oh, last question, perhaps idiotic - has anyone ever cooked a steak in their fireplace? Is that just totally insane?

Thanks! Off to read more cooking threads!

Welcome to the boards! You sound very enthusiastic.

1) Inserting a thermometer is just fine. Just don't insert the thermometer twenty times in eight different places!

2) As long as you cover it with aluminum foil, it should be plenty warm. However, and this is something that kills me when I hear about people whose food didn't turn out properly ("even though I followed the recipe to the letter!!!"): IF THE STEAK GETS TOO COLD AFTER TEN MINUTES, THEN EAT IT BEFORE THEN! Seriously, cooking is a sensual experience - use your senses!

3) I have never cooked steak in a fireplace. No reason you couldn't, though... bisteca alla fiorentina is traditionally cooked over wood coals. I just worry about the mess!

Hope this helps. Let us know how it turns out!

[zoramargolis]

Oh, last question, perhaps idiotic - has anyone ever cooked a steak in their fireplace? Is that just totally insane?

Don't do it if you have a gas-fired fireplace with fake logs. And don't cook with pine or pressed sawdust logs. But if you have some good hardwood to burn, go for it. Once you have a hot fire established, and a good bed of red hot coals, there is no reason not to grill meat on the fire. We've cooked steak, chops, hamburgers, hot dogs and roasted oysters that way in the winter. If you are concerned about ash on your food, lay a sturdy grill rack on top of the coals and cook on the rack.

[Choirgirl21]

The results are in, as long as I have time (and why wouldn't I) I will always cook my steaks this way.

I got a 2" thick, 1 1/2 lb strip steak from a local market that I cut into two pieces. The meat is naturally raised, grass-fed and finished on corn. It was in the oven for about 25 minutes total. I checked the temp at 20 minutes and it was at 90.5. I left it in the oven as I got the pan and then the oil hot for searing, so maybe another 5 minutes. I did not recheck the temp at that point. I then seared on all sides, including the actual sides, a minute or two each. We let the steaks rest on a plate loosely tented with foil about 10 min while we made a pan sauce. FYI, there were absolutely no juices to add to the pan sauce after the steak rested.

The sear on the steaks was amazing, as was the lack of the gray part. All in all it was just absolutely delicious. My only complaint was that I probably would have liked the meat cooked a TEENY bit more. It was warm all the way through, but the center was pretty darn rare. I'm okay with rare as long as the meat isn't actually cold so I still thoroughly enjoyed it, but I think next time I will get up to 95 before I start heating the pan.

I'll be interested to try this with my usual steak. I typically only eat totally grass-fed, free-range, organic beef, which cooks very differently.

One question, does anyone think the steak would benefit from doing the usual seasoning and let the steak sit out for an hour before putting it in the oven? I realize the main purpose of that is so that cold meat isn't hitting the hot pan, which isn't an issue with this method, but it would allow more time for the salt to be absorbed, right? I wanted to try the method by the book this time, but I may try that in the future and just leave it in the oven less time. Has anyone done that?

[cjsadler]

So the latest Cook's Illustrated applies their low-oven-then-sear method discussed earlier in this thread to chicken breasts. Cook the chicken in a 275 oven until the temp reaches 145-150. Then use a version of the Chinese 'velveting' method by battering with cornstarch and butter. Then sear. Sounds like if this doesn't keep boneless chicken breasts from being dry, nothing will.

[Waitman]

So the latest Cook's Illustrated applies their low-oven-then-sear method discussed earlier in this thread to chicken breasts. Cook the chicken in a 275 oven until the temp reaches 145-150. Then use a version of the Chinese 'velveting' method by battering with cornstarch and butter. Then sear. Sounds like if this doesn't keep boneless chicken breasts from being dry, nothing will.

This all seems awfully elaborate to me. I've never had a problem with just letting steaks (or breasts) drift up towards room temperature and cooking them on the hottest thing you can find for a little bit. I'm tempted to say that they've manufactured a problem here simply to look smart in solving it.

The one time I've used the low-oven-then-high-heat technique is for Eco-friendly pork chops, which have a huge band of fat that needs to be properly warmed through for it not to be disgusting.

[cjsadler]

This all seems awfully elaborate to me. I've never had a problem with just letting steaks (or breasts) drift up towards room temperature and cooking them on the hottest thing you can find for a little bit. I'm tempted to say that they've manufactured a problem here simply to look smart in solving it.

It is a bit more work, but I gotta say that this method does produce a better thick steak, virtually eliminating the 'gray band' problem. I'm sold on it. Give it a try.

[zoramargolis]

So the latest Cook's Illustrated applies their low-oven-then-sear method discussed earlier in this thread to chicken breasts. Cook the chicken in a 275 oven until the temp reaches 145-150. Then use a version of the Chinese 'velveting' method by battering with cornstarch and butter. Then sear. Sounds like if this doesn't keep boneless chicken breasts from being dry, nothing will.

What happened to brining? I thought they were advocates of brining all poultry and pork.

[Anna Blume]

So I am going to try this CI oven-method. Grill-less, I'll pan sear.

However, my question involves a thawed, bison ribeye since I've only read parts of this lengthy thread carefully and while skimming others, noticed pointed questions involving previously frozen meat.

Should I cut the steak out of the bag and air-dry it for a day or more before proceeding?

If so, unseasoned? (I'll go back and review article, I swear, but three pages of meat-enthusiasm are exhausting for a mostly-plantian.) Thanks!

[DanCole42]

So I am going to try this CI oven-method. Grill-less, I'll pan sear.

However, my question involves a thawed, bison ribeye since I've only read parts of this lengthy thread carefully and while skimming others, noticed pointed questions involving previously frozen meat.

Should I cut the steak out of the bag and air-dry it for a day or more before proceeding?

If so, unseasoned? (I'll go back and review article, I swear, but three pages of meat-enthusiasm are exhausting for a mostly-plantian.) Thanks!

Air drying a steak in the fridge is never a bad idea. Drier steaks sear better. As to season vs. not, there's some debate...

[mdt]

Air drying a steak in the fridge is never a bad idea. Drier steaks sear better. As to season vs. not, there's some debate...

Agree. If you don't have time or forget about drying it in the fridge just pat it dry with a paper towel.

[tfbrennan]

Alton Brown's new Good Eats episode combines some things discussed on a couple of threads here. First, he "dry ages" a porterhouse (although I agree with Dean's more apt characterization below) in the refrigerator for 4 days.

While I have never done this method personally, it mimics that of the off site dry aging sold at WFM, but will produce a less moldy product so it is not as "aged". This intermediate style of agina, really neither wet or dried, maybe it should be called refrigeration aged beef, is a step up but not a huge step. Its pretty damn tasty but not close to the real thing.

He then cooks the steak on a grill under a chimney of coals for 90 seconds per side in an effort to replicate a steakhouse broiler. He finishes the steak over the chimney for a minute per side, where Dan and others have cooked steaks.

So my last experiment with the Cook's Illustrated low-temp oven technique was an abysmal failure because I left the steaks on the grill for far too long. This time, though, the result was the best steak I have ever cooked. If I had access to the same quality of meat as Michael Landrum, I would not have been ashamed serving this steak at Ray's. After coming out of the oven, I tossed the steaks on the grill, directly over my chimney starter. The grate itself was, according to my infrared thermometer, between 1005-1020 degrees, with spikes to just the word "HI" on the readout. I only left them on for about 45 seconds on each side. There were no flareups because I'd like the coals burn down (height-wise) to about halfway up the chimney, and I trimmed the fat cap/gristle part off (which I saved to render onto my griddle for making cheesesteaks!). The steak was seasoned with salt, liberal amounts of pepper, and topped with some crumbly, veiny, cow/goat blue cheese. The result was perfect char, and the most amazingly cooked, juicy, tender, medium rare steak I've ever had. It tasted BEEFY. I will never cook a steak another way again.

AB's "Dry Aged Chimney Porterhouse"

Disadvantage noted by commenter: only room under/over the chimney for one steak at a time.