Murky Coffee - Founder Nick Cho's Terrific, Light-Roasted Coffee Originally on Capitol Hill and in Clarendon - Closed

[susanmab]

I've worked in the service industry. I understand establishments setting policies that the customer could pretty much take or leave and go elsewhere.

But I've also told customers they cannot have what they want and had them leave with a positive impression of my service and of the establishment. How? Politely, while steering them in the direction of a different option that might meet their needs within the boundaries of what we serve.

I guess it's nice to know that Mr. Cho supports his staff unconditionally, even when they have failed miserably at customer service. I don't think the customer's behavior was acceptable in any regard, but even I would have gotten surly if I got rolled eyes, a "we don't do that here" lecture and attitude rather than a suggestion of what they might be able to do instead. And I'm pretty mild mannered.

It sure smells like this policy has way more to do with not wanting people to use too much dairy than it does coffee integrity. To me anyway, because I can't otherwise explain the willingness to serve the same beverage with a little water added if it wasn't really about making sure there isn't room for too much milk, but hey, I'm just an idiot who doesn't appreciate how adding a little bit of water - an amount that policy even allows for it to be reduced - to the espresso magically preserves its integrity.

I mean really - 8-16 ounces of milk? what in the world is a place doing serving a beverage that can accommodate an entire cup or two of milk to it? Are customers really adding up to two full cups of milk to a beverage they buy from you?? Really?

Seriously, I think all this could have been avoided if the guy refusing to make the coffee was nice as opposed to condescending. Sure, the customer could have been more cool-headed, but he's not in the business of selling a product and doesn't need people to have a positive experience with him. I would feel a whole lot more sympathy for the establishment if I didn't think the proprietor condoned the rudeness of his employee.

[dcs]

I'm typing this from Murky Coffee.

Come over and say hi Nick, or I'll write mean things about u. Good luck picking me out. Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

I hope you are wearing a cup.

[turbogrrl]

I'm typing this from Murky Coffee.

Come over and say hi Nick, or I'll write mean things about u. Good luck picking me out. Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

Hrmm. Now I'm tempted to get in my *car* and go over to murky, just in the hopes of spotting the elusive Rocks!

[tripewriter]

Hrmm. Now I'm tempted to get in my *car* and go over to murky, just in the hopes of spotting the elusive Rocks!

He'll be the one sipping an iced Americano, hold the water.

[nick]

It sure smells like this policy has way more to do with not wanting people to use too much dairy than it does coffee integrity. To me anyway, because I can't otherwise explain the willingness to serve the same beverage with a little water added if it wasn't really about making sure there isn't room for too much milk, but hey, I'm just an idiot who doesn't appreciate how adding a little bit of water - an amount that policy even allows for it to be reduced - to the espresso magically preserves its integrity.

I mean really - 8-16 ounces of milk? what in the world is a place doing serving a beverage that can accommodate an entire cup or two of milk to it? Are customers really adding up to two full cups of milk to a beverage they buy from you?? Really?

Seriously, I think all this could have been avoided if the guy refusing to make the coffee was nice as opposed to condescending. Sure, the customer could have been more cool-headed, but he's not in the business of selling a product and doesn't need people to have a positive experience with him. I would feel a whole lot more sympathy for the establishment if I didn't think the proprietor condoned the rudeness of his employee.

I can assure you that David wasn't rude or condescending. I can understand that admonishing the customer when it's pretty much too late wasn't a smart thing to do, but David is never ever rude. It's simply not in his nature. I think the customer was taken aback that David said something to him about the way he circumvented the shop policy, and then attributed "bad attitude" to him.

That all said, I've notified the staff that in situations like this, they shouldn't try to provide an explanation, only because it then becomes a debate over the merits of the policy. Indeed, the policy is slightly more about blocking a perceived loophole in the "system," than about quality control, but quality control is absolutely an issue.

And as far as the ridiculous amounts of milk that have been added from the condiment bar, yes, it used to happen fairly regularly. The problem was that whenever someone would get something like "3 shots of espresso on ice in a 20 oz cup," it would put the baristas on guard and they'd all peer over the bar to see if the customer was abusing the condiment bar. This created a negativity that wasn't acceptable, so the policy was born. The problem here wasn't David, it was actually someone else who at that moment, when he took the customer's order, decided to make an exception to the rule. Problem was that David didn't know this, and tried to support the spirit of the rules. Hilarity (or lack thereof) ensued.

DonRocks, you're a bad, bad man. I was already pretty long-gone (went to the Counter Culture training center for some espresso experimentation with a few baristas).

[DonRocks]

And as far as the ridiculous amounts of milk that have been added from the condiment bar, yes, it used to happen fairly regularly.

Speaking of the condiment bar, I really appreciated the container of simple syrup, which integrated nicely with my iced Americano - maybe I need to get out more, but I'm not sure I've ever seen this before. Sugar In The Raw just drifts down to the bottom of the cup and swirls around when stirred, sinking immediately back to the bottom afterwards. If the drinker wants any sweetness, he has to plant the straw at the bottom of the cup, and suck up some granules like tapioca balls in a bubble tea.

[LoganCircle]

...I really appreciated the container of simple syrup, which integrated nicely with my iced Americano - maybe I need to get out more, but I'm not sure I've ever seen this before...

Although I no longer sweeten my iced lattes, I favor coffee shops that do this. It demonstrates thoughtfulness and real concern about a customer's experience.

[Gary Tanigawa]

Speaking of the condiment bar, I really appreciated the container of simple syrup, which integrated nicely with my iced Americano - maybe I need to get out more, but I'm not sure I've ever seen this before.

I recall that Buzz also does this on its condiment bar.

[bookluvingbabe]

Starbucks asks customers if they want Classic Syrup in an iced drink and how many pumps. Less control for the customer but a nice option.

[pax]

I recall that Buzz also does this on its condiment bar.

I saw it for the first time this weekend in Coffee Country, an independent in Brattleboro, VT. It was in a glass jar labeled "melted sugar". (Now I am so freaked out about triple spacing I'm starting to write like Allen Ginsburg.)

[LoganCircle]

Starbucks asks customers if they want Classic Syrup in an iced drink and how many pumps. Less control for the customer but a nice option.

Yes, but the product offered by Starbucks is derived from high-fructose corn syrup. It's in everything, everywhere, I know. Still, it grosses me out.

[mame11]

Yes, but the product offered by Starbucks is derived from high-fructose corn syrup. It's in everything, everywhere, I know. Still, it grosses me out.

I am with you... I am trying very hard to avoid processed foods, and when I eat them I try to go for ones that don't rely on corn.

[Waitman]

I am with you... I am trying very hard to avoid processed foods, and when I eat them I try to go for ones that don't rely on corn.

Uh-oh...sounds like somebody's been reading MIchael Pollan again.

[mame11]

Uh-oh...sounds like somebody's been reading MIchael Pollan again.

that and watched King Corn

[Joe Riley]

Speaking of the condiment bar, I really appreciated the container of simple syrup, which integrated nicely with my iced Americano - maybe I need to get out more, but I'm not sure I've ever seen this before. Sugar In The Raw just drifts down to the bottom of the cup and swirls around when stirred, sinking immediately back to the bottom afterwards. If the drinker wants any sweetness, he has to plant the straw at the bottom of the cup, and suck up some granules like tapioca balls in a bubble tea.

Interesting. I wonder how it would taste if, instead of basic simple syrup, you substituted Petite Canne pure cane syrup from Martinique, which is 67% sugar? I may have to experiment and report back.

By the way, going back to some of the original issues here, having myself been in retail for the past 22 years, whatever happened to, "The customer is always right"? I realize that this takes a back seat to a restaurant establishment with set policies - for example, I doubt that the Prime Rib would allow a male diner to enter without a jacket and tie, they have a posted policy about their dress code - but isn't satisfied customers and, by extension, repeat business one of the great pillars of retail commerce?

I can see Nick's argument that it is about trying to prevent abuse to their condiment bar and serving system, but there has to be a better way, some way to improve this for both customer and establishment. Beverage service, especially at such a casual level as this, shouldn't be confrontational.

I made my very first venture to Murky Coffee recently, just to buy a bag of coffee beans, but I was distressed to discover a very meager offering on their shelves, and that was almost all decaffeinated. The one lone bag of non-decaf was some espresso roast which didn't appeal to me. Pity. They had a chance to win me over from the start. Looks like I'm sticking with Peets for the time being, but perhaps I'll try some on-line purchases from Murky's own supplier.

[abby7ophelia]

Since I moved to Virginia Square about a year ago I had been walking over to Murky every Saturday but stopped going about 6 months ago. You can call me cheap but I was getting tired of paying $6 for a medium cup of coffee and a peach/raspberry muffin. Now I just walk an extra 10 minutes to the Java Shack for a larger medium cup and a larger muffin for $4.

[TedE]

Slow news days, WaPo?

[deangold]

Slow news days, WaPo?

32 posts about it on here.... slow week in the restaurant world?

[DanCole42]

Slow news days, WaPo?

It's not just in the paper. They're advertising it as being IN the paper on the radio..

DUN DUN chik chik DUN DUN dododododo It's Thursday, July 17th. Today in the Washington Post... a local coffee drinker asks for ice in his espresso... and is denied. MADNESS ensues.

More or less verbatim...

[Andelman]

It was actually more crowded than usual at Murky this morning....I guess there is no such thing as "bad press"

[Banco]

When will this thread die?

[abby7ophelia]

Slow news days, WaPo?

This story has made it to my favorite NPR show, the bryant park project. Just to let you know it's about half way into the segment.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=92621096

[MsDiPesto]

By the way, going back to some of the original issues here, having myself been in retail for the past 22 years, whatever happened to, "The customer is always right"?

Just to throw another stick on the smoldering dead horse...

While the customer may not always be right, they are never wrong. Pointing out to them that they're wrong, whether they are or not is not exactly good form. Unless, say, they were stealing from the tip jar.

[nick]

Well, the Post wants to be edgy and timely like blogs and blogs want to be taken seriously and have the readership of the Post. It really seems like the law of entropy (or should I say chaos theory?) really does apply to everything!

Wanna hear something funny? I came into the shop today and my baristas tell me that Reuters called today about it. REUTERS. I'm not planning to call them back.

Just to clarify, David did NOT admonish the customer for the iced espresso order. He DID admonish him for acting out and being such a d*ck to Jonathan, who took the order and initially denied his request. As David was explaining, the guy interrupted him and went off on him, then dumping his espresso into the cup with a "so THERE" expression. Then he decided to write a nasty message on a dollar, took a photo of it, and then put it in the tip jar. Then he blogged about it. The rest is history.

As I've said over and over, it's just coffee. Granted, it's our job, and we try to do a good job with it, but ultimately, it's just coffee. Seriously, the only thing that ever gets me angry, somewhat ironic/"contradictorily," is when people get really angry about inconsequential things. I get angry about anger. Go figure. I'm a nut.

I need a coffee. I'm gonna go get one right now. Good thing our espresso machine only is 15 feet away.

[DonRocks]

While the customer may not always be right, they are never wrong.

Right or wrong ...

I get angry about anger. Go figure. I'm a nut.

... would you really want this person punching you in the dick?

[hmmboy]

Right or wrong ...

... would you really want this person punching you in the dick?

Punching, or anything else for that matter

[edenman]

http://www.punchedinthedick.com/

[ScotteeM]

Oh, for heaven's sake, I saw this on epicurious.com today. It's official: it's everywhere!

[Michael Landrum]

http://www.punchedinthedick.com/

Urban Dictionary needs to update its definition of Chogasm:

"An orgasm experienced due to, or in the vicinity of, Margaret Cho (the person or her likeness);"

to include this new coffee-fueled version for the CBT crowd.

[xcanuck]

dcist posts a funny

[JLK]

I'm glad this thread exists, not for the hilarity contained within, but to save me a trip to Murky. I happen to live on iced lattes. Who know I possessed such deviant tastes!!

[nick]

We've always done iced lattes.

But I'm still a deviant.

[Scott]

Nick-more power to you! You are either a marketing genius, a good manager, are willing to take a stand, or all!

What many people don't realize about retail is that there is this wierd thing that happens with some customers when they walk into a retail establishment- they think they somehow are anointed king/queen and suddenly can treat employees like they're indentured servants- Leona Helmsley style! It's sort of like internet exchanges or behind the wheel of a car- people treat other people differently than they would anywhere else, obviously while on a power trip of some sort. It's such a strange dynamic and is probably worthy of a sociological thesis/study.

We get about 20,000 customer per week. 19,987 of them are wonderful. Then there are those 13. Nick and all business owners have a duty to protect and defend their staff in the face of rude, disrespectful, or dishonest customers. It does the world good when these customers are confronted. Customers can be wrong, like bad wrong- and when they are at one of my stores, I ban them. And boy, does that change everything! They always come back and behave much better thereafter or start crying/pleading right there on the spot. Typical behavior of bullies, once confronted!

And everyone is better off because of it- the employee's morale goes up (or, at least is stopped from going down), other employees feel like they work for someone who cares about them (which seems quite rare in the workplace!), and other respectful and decent customers don't have to be around such rude customers while they shop.

Again, nice job Nick.

Off topic- do you know what is it inherently about milk that makes it either froth nicely or not so nicely, even though the same machine and techniques are used?

[nick]

Off topic- do you know what is it inherently about milk that makes it either froth nicely or not so nicely, even though the same machine and techniques are used?

Replace the words

"milk" with "golf clubs"

"froth" with "hit"

"nicely" with "straight"

...and you'll probably have your answer.

Most of the time, it's the technique that needs work, but sometimes, with certain small-producer milks, variations in the cows' diets can effect the protein content which can effect milk foaming quality. That's when I get insanely jealous of milk from Northern California (like Strauss Family Creamery), that's not only kick-butt quality jersey-cow milk, but they don't have the feed-changes that makes milk act funny for a couple of weeks every year that we do on the east coast.

Hope that helps!

[Joe Riley]

Most of the time, it's the technique that needs work, but sometimes, with certain small-producer milks, variations in the cows' diets can effect the protein content which can effect milk foaming quality. That's when I get insanely jealous of milk from Northern California (like Strauss Family Creamery), that's not only kick-butt quality jersey-cow milk, but they don't have the feed-changes that makes milk act funny for a couple of weeks every year that we do on the east coast.

Oh, dear Lord, does this signal the advent of the latest in food snobbery? Is milk the next beverage to get over-analyzed to the nth degree? Will yuppies be forced to hang their heads in shame if they cannot locate milk with the proper protein content? (smacks forehead....) Say it 'ain't so, Nick Cho.

[nick]

Sorry Joe, but I don't throw-down with anyone unless it's in blog form.

[stickmoon]

I regularly enjoy their coffee...but the 2nd floor has been "temporarily closed" for months, and so have two bathrooms...so, they used to have 2 floors and 3 bathrooms, and now they have 1 floor and 1 bathroom, with no sign of getting back to their usual facilities. What gives?

[MsDiPesto]

Most of the time, it's the technique that needs work, but sometimes, with certain small-producer milks, variations in the cows' diets can effect the protein content which can effect milk foaming quality. Hope that helps!

This observation piqued my interest, as I have always heard that it's easier to produce foam with skim milk. My curiosity led me to this site, which explains why the higher glycerol content in full fat milk can make it more difficult to foam, depending on the milk's freshness.

[cremefraiche]

Shhhh, post retracted.

[Beto]

Good Night.

Care to elaborate please?

[DanCole42]

Good Night.

I'm really not a fan of these sorts of cryptic posts (like mdt's in the RTS thread).

I know Don tends to write them a lot: things like, "The rumor is true!" without any mention of what rumor it is he's talking about. But hey, it's his website, he can do what he wants.

Everyone else, though... can we put the kibosh on: "I have this special piece of privileged information. Rather than keep it to myself, I'm going to reveal I have it without saying what it actually is. If you don't get what I said, well, that just means you're not in the know and don't deserve to know. If it's not ambiguous or vague, but rather cryptic and you just can't figure it out, you're stupid. Get out of my inner circle special place!"? Pretty please?

Unless you're Don and can do it with a combination of French and emoticons or with post modern poetical legerdemain, then please just say whatever it is you're talking about. It makes me feel like an idiot so I can't imagine how much it must put off anyone coming new to the site.

ETA: This is not meant to be a personal attack on any one particular post or individual. Please don't take it as such. This one just happened to be the most recent object of my ire.

[stickmoon]

This morning I saw a sign, posted on the outside wall of Murky Coffee, which read "Notice of Sale" and was written by the Arlington Treasure Department. It said that on February 19th, various materials, which included an espresso maker, 3 coffee grinders, a refrigerator, and an ice machine would be sold at auction to collect on owed taxes. Please, oh please...say it ain't so.

[jpschust]

This morning I saw a sign, posted on the outside wall of Murky Coffee, which read "Notice of Sale" and was written by the Arlington Treasure Department. It said that on February 19th, various materials, which included an espresso maker, 3 coffee grinders, a refrigerator, and an ice machine would be sold at auction to collect on owed taxes. Please, oh please...say it ain't so.

Didn't something similar happen in DC?

[stupidusername]

I did not see a sign when I walked by this afternoon and the place was full of people. I suppose I could have missed the sign, but the place is definitely still open as of today.

[stickmoon]

I did not see a sign when I walked by this afternoon and the place was full of people. I suppose I could have missed the sign, but the place is definitely still open as of today.

You're correct, it was down when I stopped by this morning.

[kneelconqueso]

well, sadly, it looks like murky is closing either way. according to their website, they are moving to chinatown and opening up 'wrecking ball coffee' and the owners of liberty tavern will be taking over the space, renovating, and opening a coffee shop in the old murky space in clarendon.

i hope that the new owners will keep the same sort of ambience. i love liberty tavern's food and service, but if they duplicate that same decor and ambience, its going to ruin it.

also, i while i hope this turns out to be an april fools day joke, i sincerly doubt it is. nbc 4 has picked up the story and claims it is not a joke. sad.

http://www.murkycoffee.com/2009/04/letter-...-customers.html

Wednesday, April 01, 2009

from Nick

Letter to our customers

April 1, 2009

Dear valued customer,

It's with great sadness that I announce that in a few weeks, murky coffee will be relocating from here in Clarendon to a new location in Washington DC.

The property here at 3211 Wilson Boulevard was sold last year, and market rent is simply more than we can afford.

In the coming months, I hope that you'll join us in welcoming a new coffee shop here, brought by the talented folks at the renown "Liberty Tavern" just up the street. They'll be bringing their years of experience, a full renovation of the building, and top-quality service. We are proud to call them our friends, and plan to support them in setting up their coffee program. That said, we ask that you'll join us in welcoming and supporting them.

Our new home (at 5th & H Streets NW, two blocks east of the Chinatown Gate) will be a brand-new shop (called "Wrecking Ball Coffee") in a new neighborhood. While we're excited at new possibilities, leaving Clarendon isn't going to be easy. We've made many friends here, and we're very sad to leave. All of us here at murky are heartbroken about this move, so please be sensitive to our feelings during the transition.

We've been honored to be a place for you to visit over the last four years--especially our regular customers, but also those who we see less frequently.

Thanks for your friendship, love, and patronage. In so many ways, our customers have inspired us to work harder at providing you the best coffee experience we can, and for that, we cannot than you enough.

We hope that you'll be sure to visit us at our upcoming location. Dates for this move are yet to be specifically determined, but renovations will begin soon, starting with the upstairs.

I welcome your questions or comments: nickcho@murkycoffee.com

Sincerely,

Nick

posted at 1:08:00 AM -5 comments-

[dcs]

Well this certainly blows. I was in there on Sunday mid-morning and the place was packed - nary a seat left open. Riddle me this, Batman: If the rise in rent makes it financially not viable for Murky to maintain a coffee shop in this location, how can the Liberty folks afford to move in, renovate the space, and open another coffee shop?

Is Clarendon moving in the direction in which 3 or 4 groups of folks will own and operate all of the food establishments?

I hope the Liberty folks show some class and occasionally threaten one of their customers with a good 'ole fashioned punch in the dick.

[stickmoon]

Murky Coffee closed yesterday.

Farewell message from Nick:

Sunday, May 03, 2009

from Nick

When we first started murky, I was under 30, married with no kids, had one employee, a little two-group La Marzocco Linea espresso machine, and the idea that if we were going to serve something to people to drink and eat, that it would need to be the best 'something' that we could make it... otherwise, we would dishonor those people and the love and care that every person deserves.

A few years later, I'm over 35, divorced, two kids, about 20 employees, and a pile of various coffee-making rigs and such, on the last day of murky coffee: May 3, 2009.

Looking back, murky coffee is a cacophony of memories, both good and bad. To try to list any specific ones here would do them injustice--some things should just never, ever, be summarized. That said, I'll choose to remember murky this way:

I always wanted murky to be like a funny little love song for each and every person who comes through our doors; both our staff, and our customers. A little song that was manifested in the ways that we served each other, but with all of the inevitable human frailties. Sometimes, the little love song was sung badly. Sometimes, the intended audience wasn't paying attention. Sometimes, things were misheard. Sometimes, the words and music didn't match up in the right way. Sometimes the timing wasn't right. Sometimes people weren't in the right mood or state of mind.

But sometimes, things would come together in that magical sort of way that little love songs can create.

I'll remember murky coffee for those moments.

Looking ahead, there's still much to overcome, and there's much to look forward to. I've been humbled to the point of weakened knees at the outpouring of love and support from our friends and our customers in the past few weeks. There are special people who made murky what it is, and they know who they are. I have to especially thank Ryan Jensen, Katie Carguilo, Aaron Ultimo, Katie Duris, Travis Edwards, Jennifer Mulchandani, Zachary Carlsen, Daniel Stearns, Liz Zamorski, Jenny Lawrence, Tommy Gallagher, and Marianne Hines, who were at murky as managers but mostly as my sisters and brothers. It's never been about the coffee, and it never will be. It's about the people.

As I've learned from past mistakes and will inevitably make new ones, I am blessed to be given the opportunity to experience more of what this walk has to offer. When training our staff, I've said, "From the moment someone thinks that they want to go to murky today, to the moment they actually forgot they ever came... that's the whole experience that we offer, and can choose to make better for them or not." There are many hands who have shaped my experience with murky coffee, and I am better for it. Thank you all, and please keep in touch.

Nick

[Scott]

Well this certainly blows. I was in there on Sunday mid-morning and the place was packed - nary a seat left open. Riddle me this, Batman: If the rise in rent makes it financially not viable for Murky to maintain a coffee shop in this location, how can the Liberty folks afford to move in, renovate the space, and open another coffee shop?

Is Clarendon moving in the direction in which 3 or 4 groups of folks will own and operate all of the food establishments?

I hope the Liberty folks show some class and occasionally threaten one of their customers with a good 'ole fashioned punch in the dick.

Riddle me this... What are the 2 most common used excuses today for going out of business? "The economy is bad" and/or "the LL raised the rents". Most people go out of business for 2 other different reasons altogether- bad model and/or bad management.

[nick]

I'm not Batman, but I'll bite.

Our lease expired last year, and the landlord (who had inherited the property from her father) sold the property to someone else. We had a fairly sweet deal before, and the new landlord was asking for just shy of triple what we were paying before, in order to sign a new lease.

So instead of "bad model," how about the wrong model for the space we were in? 3500-ish sq ft is way too much for my sort of model (quality-focused coffee focus). I could go on, but suffice it to say, something around 1500 sq ft is a more optimal setting for what we do.

Thanks for the concerned words though.