Does The 2nd Amendment Provide Absolute Protection To Gun Owners?

[MC Horoscope]

Why does the NRA think their gun owners EVER EVER EVER need magazines loaded with 30-40 rounds!?? THAT is your recipe for mass killings. Let's not even talk yet about what the Las Vegas shooter was able to stockpile. 500 wounded! That man was at WAR with America. Protect us!

If you listen to the NRA's rhetoric it's not even about guns. It's about freedom and patriotism. And that is so wrong! We need better rhetoric about freedom. Why do they get away with "freedom to shoot 30 rounds in under a minute" but we get nowhere with "freedom FROM danger"? Expose these socially irresponsible spokesmen for investors in gun manufacturers! And heaven help me if my 403b has investments in any of them!

[DonRocks]

14 hours ago, DaveO said:

I frankly think discussing this issue in the context of the 2nd Amendment is a waste of time and fruitless.

I love this post - it's thoughtful, well-written, and comes from the heart. 

And the more I think about it, the less-fully I agree with it (which is not the same as saying "the more I disagree with it").

Watch this discussion with William Buckley and Muhammad Ali - in particular, the part where he's talking about the Black Panthers, and draws an analogy with how the Americans were fighting in Vietnam, approaching a common enemy from various angles.

Discussing this issue in the context of the 2nd Amendment *has been* a waste of time and fruitless because the NRA has been hiding behind it while duping the American public, but things are beginning to change, and to ignore The Constitution (i.e., "The Supreme Law of the Land") is perilous at best. Roe v. Wade somehow found a "Right to Privacy" in the ridiculous 14th Amendment which absolutely does not exist (read it and see), and for the past 45 years, women's rights advocates have lived in uncertainty, because to put it bluntly: You live by an activist judiciary branch, you die by an activist judiciary branch. 

In my previous post, I made it perfectly clear - using pure logic - that the 2nd Amendment is, quite possibly, a meaningless relic. You can ignore that, and fight the battle however you see fit, but in the long term, the safest way to do things is via the Legislative Branch. I agree that trying to rescind the 2nd Amendment isn't a wise first step, but it can and should be a long-term goal.

Outlawing fully automatic weapons won't do jack-diddly to stop someone from walking into a school with a coat full of pistols, and taking out a dozen people.

This is a problem that needs to be approached from the maximum number of angles, and I'm not talking about "mental hygiene," or this "knock and talk" bullshit; I'm talking about gun laws.

[DaveO]

Thanks for the comments above @DonRocks

There is more to comments and beliefs than what I posted.

In today’s environment those who would like to see some controls on gun ownership have lost to the NRA.  Currently.   Not forever.  In 2008 and 2010 SCOTUS took cases on gun legislation and ruled that there is a protection on various legislation that limits access to guns.  SCOTUS ruled that the 2nd Amendment in those cases applied.  

DC vs Heller 2008

McDonald vs Chicago 2010

Neither granted absolute protections of the 2nd Amendment in every situation.

Before that there were long periods when SCOTUS never mentioned the 2nd Amendment.  Decades upon decades.  The loudness associated with the 2nd Amendment is a relatively recent phenomena connected to the politicization of the NRA beginning in 1977.  It’s an interesting history.

More recently and subsequent to those two cases SCOTUS has mostly passed on taking on gun cases, and recently Justice Thomas expressed disdain for not taking on more gun cases.

The Court has generally not heard more gun cases since 2010.  That means at least 6 justices refuse to take a case.  That has to include conservative justices.

The Court is signaling to the body politic to deal with this issue.

The kids from Parkland, other kids and many more people have an opportunity to play as focused on this issue as the NRA has been on its side of the issue.

Change the electorate.  Beat the legislators with A ratings by the NRA.  Get protections against absolute gun ownership and save some lives.  I’m sad that the latest mass murder is the impetus but these kids supported by parents family and friends have the right focus to get this done imho

[Al Dente]

On 2/25/2018 at 10:27 AM, DaveO said:

Do what works elsewhere around the world.

Sadly, American Exceptionalism prohibits this.

---

If you can stomach watching it, here's Wayne LaPierre just last week at the CPAC shitshow:

"NRA Chief Accuses Democrats of Pushing 'Socialist' Agenda in Wake of Florida Shooting" by Lauren Fox on cnn.com

I don't know how that man sleeps at night.

Also from the CPAC shitshow, Dana Loesch had this to say:

"I’ll say it really slowly so all the people on the platform in the back can hear me loud and clear: Many in legacy media love mass shootings," Loesch said, referring to the media assembled on risers toward the back. "You guys love it. I'm not saying that you love the tragedy, but I am saying that you love the ratings. Crying white mothers are ratings gold to you and many in the legacy media in the back.” 

"NRA Spokeswoman: Many in Legacy Media Love Mass Shootings" by Ben Kimisar on thehill.com

PS-- for those that don't know, "legacy media" is a fascist dog whistle term for media outlets that don't agree with their agenda. You know, the Lamestream Media that intellectual giants like Sarah Palin refer to.

[DaveO]

14 hours ago, Al Dente said:

If you can stomach watching it, here's Wayne LaPierre just last week at the CPAC shitshow:

"NRA Chief Accuses Democrats of Pushing 'Socialist' Agenda in Wake of Florida Shooting" by Lauren Fox on cnn.com

I don't know how that man sleeps at night.

Also from the CPAC shitshow, Dana Loesch had this to say:

"I’ll say it really slowly so all the people on the platform in the back can hear me loud and clear: Many in legacy media love mass shootings," Loesch said, referring to the media assembled on risers toward the back. "You guys love it. I'm not saying that you love the tragedy, but I am saying that you love the ratings. Crying white mothers are ratings gold to you and many in the legacy media in the back.” 

"NRA Spokeswoman: Many in Legacy Media Love Mass Shootings" by Ben Kimisar on thehill.com

PS-- for those that don't know, "legacy media" is a fascist dog whistle term for media outlets that don't agree with their agenda. You know, the Lamestream Media that intellectual giants like Sarah Palin refer to.

Unexpectedly this past weekend in a web based discussion I expressed myself on an issue related to guns.  There was strong disagreement including a virulent attack wherein some of the heart of the 2nd Amendment discussions was argued on behalf of those who support unrestricted gun rights.  Other disagreements were argued more rationally and less vicious.

I was caught off guard.  I've been in these "battles" before but not recently.  (On a side note, one friend with whom I disagree on most political issues is similarly active in some of the same social media as am I.  He is also similarly though not quite as old and wizened.  Surprisingly we continue to follow one another and never attack the politics of one another.  All of that occurred without our discussing it beforehand.  After a period I asked why he doesn't attack or unfollow me.  In so doing I didn't broach why I continued to follow him and never attack his comments.   His core comments were that there is a viciousness on  the web that wouldn't or couldn't exist in personal disagreements.  In his words were the attacks that vicious in person there would be a serious rise in homicides.  In my own words I heartedly agreed.)   The internet, allowing for non direct confrontation and its consequences,  is a vicious place.

In any case the heart of their arguments had to do with the following:

1.  The Bill of Rights (the initial amendments to the Constitution) are God given rights. 

2.  The Bill of Rights were strong protections, virtual warnings and restrictions on the powers of the Federal Government

3.  The Bill of Rights basically argued that the Feds couldn't touch these rights.

Additional arguments I suppose grounded in a similar beliefs were that the size and scope of the US Fed Government is way too big and these folks want to see government limited.

I've encountered these arguments before, but not recently.  Frankly I don't agree with how SCOTUS currently defines the rights of the 2nd Amendment nor the various state laws that expand gun rights and interpret the 2nd Amendment as offering seemingly unlimited protections on all gun ownership. I don't agree with the 3 arguments made above.

Regardless with the energy and outrage of the students from Parkland and elsewhere and if their parents and others join with them, I think there is a great opportunity to change the makeup of legislatures and executives around the nation and then set up a different set of laws in states and the nation at large.

This 2nd Amendment battle has been twisted in my mind to inflame those that love guns and skew toward strong levels of libertarianism that I believe is the very essence of disabling a nation.

Again:  Just my opinions and experiences.

[Al Dente]

NRA Statement on Corporate Partnerships

Quote

some corporations have decided to punish NRA membership in a shameful display of political and civic cowardice.  In time, these brands will be replaced by others who recognize that patriotism and determined commitment to Constitutional freedoms are characteristics of a marketplace they very much want to serve.

Since I work for them, I wish Amazon would cut its ties. But, they won't stop advertising on Breitbart, so I don't think they'll stop any involvement with the NRA.

[Al Dente]

Sorry for my flurry of posts, but it's been a busy day for fucked up NRA news.

Georgia conservatives threaten Delta tax break after airline cuts ties with NRA

[DaveO]

2 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Sorry for my flurry of posts, but it's been a busy day for fucked up NRA news.

Georgia conservatives threaten Delta tax break after airline cuts ties with NRA

Assholes.

NY State Lt Governor invited Delta to move its HQ to NY

[DonRocks]

2 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Sorry for my flurry of posts, but it's been a busy day for fucked up NRA news.

Georgia conservatives threaten Delta tax break after airline cuts ties with NRA

I haven't read the article, but isn't this a form of extortion?

[DaveO]

4 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I haven't read the article, but isn't this a form of extortion?

Yeah.  It is.  It’s also a form of banana republic like dictatorial corrupt politics that tends to destroy nations.

Meanwhile though there is a support/organizational meeting between Parkland survivors and Montgomery County students this evening

And in completely different direction: The actions of an armed fringe group that will be dangerous

[DonRocks]

To bring this full circle, back to the Buckley-Ali interview to which I referred up above, and which was dealing with the Black Panthers ...

The Mulford Act  was a 1967 California Bill that repealed a law allowing the public to carry loaded firearms (it was crafted in response to the Black Panthers carrying loaded firearms in conducting armed patrols of Oakland neighborhoods - they were performing "cop watching" - the more things change ...). It would not surprise me if DaveO has some memory of this.

Then-Governor Ronald Reagan supported the bill - say what you want about the Black Panthers: They effectively scared the crap out of white people. I have a story about my father, who took enormous negative press (here in Washington, DC) because he was going to allow a member of the Black Panthers to speak at the school where he was principal, but I'll save that for another time (I don't remember much about it, but looking back, I suspect this was one of his finest moments).

Reagan saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons," and that guns were "a ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will" - say what you want about Reagan: He was, at the core, a fundamentally decent man, and he would have been disgusted with today's NRA.

I suspect there's nothing more that Wayne LaPierre would like than for DaveO, Al Dente, and me to be quarreling amongst ourselves just because we might have some philosophical differences - let us not allow that to happen here.

---

PS - When President Reagan was shot, he was surrounded by armed, trained Secret Service agents - cold-blooded killing machines, specifically watching for any threats, and conditioned to use lethal force on a moment's notice. 

James Brady's 2014 death was ruled a homicide - ironically, the White House press briefing room is named the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room in his honor.

These two men were shot with a revolver.

[Al Dente]

8 hours ago, DonRocks said:

To bring this full circle, back to the Buckley-Ali interview to which I referred up above, and which was dealing with the Black Panthers ...

The Mulford Act  was a 1967 California Bill that repealed a law allowing the public to carry loaded firearms (it was crafted in response to the Black Panthers carrying loaded firearms in conducting armed patrols of Oakland neighborhoods - they were performing "cop watching" - the more things change ...). It would not surprise me if DaveO has some memory of this.

Then-Governor Ronald Reagan supported the bill - say what you want about the Black Panthers: They effectively scared the crap out of white people. I have a story about my father, who took enormous negative press (here in Washington, DC) because he was going to allow a member of the Black Panthers to speak at the school where he was principal, but I'll save that for another time (I don't remember much about it, but looking back, I suspect this was one of his finest moments).

Reagan saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons," and that guns were "a ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will" - say what you want about Reagan: He was, at the core, a fundamentally decent man, and he would have been disgusted with today's NRA.

I suspect there's nothing more that Wayne LaPierre would like than for DaveO, Al Dente, and me to be quarreling amongst ourselves just because we might have some philosophical differences - let us not allow that to happen here.

Wow, this belongs in the Coincidence thread! I just got out of my car where I was listening to Radiolab's story about the Black Panthers and Reagan. The amazing takeaway for me is the fact that the 2nd Amendment was viewed as an antiquated part of the Constitution before the mid-60's. Most folks didn't give a shit about it.

"Radiolab Presents: More Perfect - The Gun Show" on radiolab.org

[DaveO]

10 hours ago, DonRocks said:

To bring this full circle, back to the Buckley-Ali interview to which I referred up above, and which was dealing with the Black Panthers ...

The Mulford Act  was a 1967 California Bill that repealed a law allowing the public to carry loaded firearms (it was crafted in response to the Black Panthers carrying loaded firearms in conducting armed patrols of Oakland neighborhoods - they were performing "cop watching" - the more things change ...). It would not surprise me if DaveO has some memory of this.

Then-Governor Ronald Reagan supported the bill - say what you want about the Black Panthers: They effectively scared the crap out of white people. I have a story about my father, who took enormous negative press (here in Washington, DC) because he was going to allow a member of the Black Panthers to speak at the school where he was principal, but I'll save that for another time (I don't remember much about it, but looking back, I suspect this was one of his finest moments).

Reagan saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons," and that guns were "a ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will" - say what you want about Reagan: He was, at the core, a fundamentally decent man, and he would have been disgusted with today's NRA.

I suspect there's nothing more that Wayne LaPierre would like than for DaveO, Al Dente, and me to be quarreling amongst ourselves just because we might have some philosophical differences - let us not allow that to happen here.

3 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Wow, this belongs in the Coincidence thread! I just got out of my car where I was listening to Radiolab's story about the Black Panthers and Reagan. The amazing takeaway for me is the fact that the 2nd Amendment was viewed as an antiquated part of the Constitution before the mid-60's. Most folks didn't give a shit about it.

"Radiolab Presents: More Perfect - The Gun Show" on radiolab.org

@Don:  In my mind its not a quarrel.  I have a different opinion on the issue.  The reference to the Mulford Act and some other references above show that the 2nd Amendment debate, as it exists in the current time and environment, was not a relevant issue some 50 years ago and actually for decades before that.  I think the NRA co-opted it, its used to inflame their supporters, and in the current period the courts are tending to side with the NRA argument. 

I don't like that status.  I'd argue against unlimited guns from a different perspective. I'd address it differently--and that is through the electorate.  That's it.  Not a quarrel.

Meanwhile, watching that tape from so many decades ago...with a young Ali.  That was a hoot.  The man could speak.  Plus he was a handsome dude and charming to boot.  In his own style he could "outtalk" Buckley.  That is a feat in its own right.  He was in his youthful all around prime at that period.  He was a dude.  He is always worth watching. 

[Al Dente]

A legal weapon (though CA banned it) that fires a .50 caliber bullet capable of penetrating an engine block. Just what you need for a home invader like a rabid rhino.

[DaveO]

One of the reasons I push for changing the electorate is that across the nation in special elections Dems have been beating republicans at a surprisingly high rate.  A part of the voting public is energized and for the sake of a simple description it’s the anti Trump element.  Recent special election results

Even when the GOP wins a special election the Dems eat into the percentage of voters taking higher percentages than in recent elections.  In Wisconsin the Governor won’t allow 2 special elections

[Ferris Bueller]

IF nothing else comes out of this other than elevated awareness and reporting as well as some retailers curbing assault rifle sales, perhaps a small, and continual movement to eventual change.  The headlines and press appear to be conflicting daily, so it is difficult to gauge momentum and its affect on eventual legislation or "control."

Dick's Sporting Goods ends assault-style weapon, high-capacity magazine sales - turns out it was their FIeld & Stream stores that were still carrying the assault-style weapons, which has now ceased.  

Walmart raises minimum age (21) for buying firearms

Lucky to be alive and scarred for life - if you have a few minutes, please watch this video.  She is not going back and I do not see how anyone can blame her.

[Al Dente]

If only I could believe him. I'm sure some NRA whore in Congress will set him straight.

"The 43 Most Eye-Popping Lines from Donald Trump's 'Surreal' Gathering on Guns" by Chris Cillizza on cnn.com

[DaveO]

22 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

If only I could believe him. I'm sure some NRA whore in Congress will set him straight.

"The 43 Most Eye-Popping Lines from Donald Trump's 'Surreal' Gathering on Guns" by Chris Cillizza on cnn.com

He is completely untrustworthy.  He doesn't stick to anything he says and has been described as negotiating with him is like negotiating with jello.  I wouldn't put faith to anything he says on this topic.

[DonRocks]

Al Dente, I read the whole article: believe him about what? Bump stocks?

I'm writing this before the next paragraph: Wayne LaPierre is a bad guy with a gun.

[As a future guideline for writing posts, everyone examine what they've written and ask yourself if the post is an insult of the form, "X is a Y." Some posts (including the sentence above) cross the border, and I don't want this thread to go over the edge. I think raw facts can speak for themselves in many cases - here's an example that you should feel free to retweet hint hint.]

[Al Dente]

Send this link to any gun nut enthusiast you may know. It's a piece by a radiologist who treated victims in the aftermath of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shootings. An AR-15 shot causes lethal damage much more easily than a handgun. 

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns by Heather Sher from  The Atlantic.

[Al Dente]

1 hour ago, DonRocks said:

Al Dente, I read the whole article: believe him about what? Bump stocks?

He all but came out for banning assault weapons during yesterday's meeting with lawmakers. I don't think his position will last long. 

Trump stunned lawmakers from both parties with his gun control remarks, but nobody thinks he'll follow through by Peter Weber from The Week.

Sorry, I've had difficulty making myself clear lately. Ask my girlfriend or daughter. 

[DonRocks]

3 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Send this link to any gun nut enthusiast you may know. It's a piece by a radiologist who treated victims in the aftermath of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shootings. An AR-15 shot causes lethal damage much more easily than a handgun. 

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns by Heather Sher from  The Atlantic.

I had no idea. I knew about bullets fragmenting and zig-zagging (see "Bloodletting" for a fictional dramatization), but I didn't know about this:

"The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange."

[Al Dente]

On 2/26/2018 at 6:05 PM, Al Dente said:

Sorry for my flurry of posts, but it's been a busy day for fucked up NRA news.

Georgia conservatives threaten Delta tax break after airline cuts ties with NRA

Yay! The NRA wins!

The Latest: Pro-gun lawmakers win victory over Delta from AP News

[DonRocks]

5 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Yay! The NRA wins!

The Latest: Pro-gun lawmakers win victory over Delta from AP News

Or not.

---

Never let it be said that there aren't predators who will prey on people's fear:

"Bulletproof Backpacks: What You Need To Know" by Andrea Miller on abcnews.go.com

 

[DaveO]

On 2/26/2018 at 9:04 PM, DonRocks said:

I haven't read the article, but isn't this a form of extortion?

In this article it’s described as “unethical” and from another source “viewpoint discrimation”

The editorial descriptions are mild imho.  It’s estimated to cost Delta $38 million/yr (delta’s share of the total to all airlines fueling in Atlanta).

The economic battles being waged around politics can be very costly.

I hope Delta at least shifts flights and personnel out of Georgia with its “unethical” legislature of NRA lovers.  Better yet—-relocate.

This isn’t even about guns—it’s about the NRA. That makes it about an extreme position on guns nowhere close to some middle ground position.

Move Delta Move!!!!!!

[DaveO]

And another school shooting today

[DonRocks]

This is a *great* sentence:

"Ever since Columbine, almost 20 years ago, I’ve absorbed the news of more mass shootings than I can count with an ulcerating rage that gradually scabbed over into deadened cynicism."

"Go Ahead, Millenials, Destroy Us" by Tim Kreider on nytimes.com

Not ten-minutes before seeing this, I said to my friend, "I think that everyone under the age of 40 should just shut up. About everything. Maybe 50." But I'm wrong - when I see these screaming students, I see an energy that I can no longer possess, and they need to keep pounding away. Wisdom? I have it in spades, but as they say, "Youth is wasted on the young." Or not.

Cheers,
Timothy Leary

[Ferris Bueller]

Central Michigan University shooting leaves two dead, gunman on the loose

Apparently there were armed citizens who showed up to help the police...what do you make of that?

[DaveO]

1 hour ago, DonRocks said:

This is a *great* sentence:

"Ever since Columbine, almost 20 years ago, I’ve absorbed the news of more mass shootings than I can count with an ulcerating rage that gradually scabbed over into deadened cynicism."

"Go Ahead, Millenials, Destroy Us" by Tim Kreider on nytimes.com

Not ten-minutes before seeing this, I said to my friend, "I think that everyone under the age of 40 should just shut up. About everything. Maybe 50." But I'm wrong - when I see these screaming students, I see an energy that I can no longer possess, and they need to keep pounding away. Wisdom? I have it in spades, but as they say, "Youth is wasted on the young." Or not.

Cheers,
Timothy Leary

I acknowledge the article.  I equate the moral energy of the students to the fervor of the anti war “kids” that protested against US involvement in Vietnam.   That went on for some years.  By 68-69 so many young men were returning in body bags or injured.  The parents, relatives, friends and neighbors of these young men became a majority that got Nixon to deescalate US involvement in Vietnam.

It was energized at first by the “kids”.   I see an analogy to today.

Follow the kids!!!!!!

[Ferris Bueller]

This is a pretty interesting site (no pun intended), and if you click on the heading it lists all the incidents in great detail.  Accordingly there were only 36 Mass Shootings so far in 2018 - that is in 2 months.

[DaveO]

On a state level the NRA is most powerful effective and gets more pro gun legislation passed in Florida than elsewhere.  
This an astonishing story about their lobbyist in the state:   

"The NRA Lobbyist behind Florida's Pro-Gun Policies" by Mike Spies on newyorker.com

With that power the state legislature is currently taking up an expensive bill to arm teachers

At the state level in places such as Florida and Georgia the NRA is astoundingly powerful and we are seeing this play out before our eyes 

[DaveO]

On 3/2/2018 at 9:06 PM, DaveO said:

On a state level the NRA is most powerful effective and gets more pro gun legislation passed in Florida than elsewhere.  
This an astonishing story about their lobbyist in the state:   

"The NRA Lobbyist behind Florida's Pro-Gun Policies" by Mike Spies on newyorker.com

With that power the state legislature is currently taking up an expensive bill to arm teachers

At the state level in places such as Florida and Georgia the NRA is astoundingly powerful and we are seeing this play out before our eyes 

The Florida Senate voted to arm teachers and rejected banning assault rifles

Florida is a leading edge pro gun state with the NRA wielding enormous power. 

The test will be in the next election and one of the spokespersons from the Parkland school, David Hogge, acknowledged that with the vote results

[DaveO]

This is a thoughtful article written by an author with deep experience with guns, their cultural milieu, a keen sense of cultural changes, military service, and has been lauded for his perspectives based on experiences 

A very interesting read

---

The Atlantic - DonRocks

[MC Horoscope]

"At best, purchasing a firearm was a way to buy membership in “real America.” At worst, purchasing a firearm was yet another way to “own the libs.” "

Scares me that anybody thinks I need to be owned. I am fast piling up a list of states I will not visit because of their politics. And I have never done that before in all my life.

[Al Dente]

Every so often I check out the NRA's website to see what bullshit they're pedaling.

Evidently, people who don't like seeing children get shot are evil socialists.

[dcs]

I don't know much about the the topic question, but I do know that the 1st Amendment protects the right of free speech and the right of the people peaceably to assemble.  Dozens of Arlington Households Set To Host Gun Control Marchers, by Bridget Reed Morawski, March 6, 2018, on ARLnow.com.

[Al Dente]

Some good news for once:

Assault Weapons Not Protected by Second Amendment, Federal Appeals Court Rules Associated Press

[Al Dente]

How to Buy a Gun in 15 Countries by Audrey Carlsen and Sahil Chinoy of the NYT
 

Quote

In the US:

1) Pass an instant background check that considers criminal convictions, domestic violence and immigration status.

2) Buy a gun.

The background check is a joke. Since it was first implemented 19 years ago, less than 0.6% of buyers have failed the check. Additionally, the FBI database is missing all kinds of data on domestic abuse and military records. And some states provide only a fraction of the needed information.

FBI's gun background-check database is missing records of millions of cases by Devlin Barrett, Sandhya Somashekhar, Alex Horton of the Washington Post

[Ferris Bueller]

White House vows to help arm teachers and backs off raising age for buying guns

The White House on Sunday vowed to help provide “rigorous firearms training” to some schoolteachers and formally endorsed a bill to tighten the federal background checks system, but it backed off President Trump’s earlier call to raise the minimum age to purchase some guns to 21 years old from 18 years old.

[DonRocks]

"NRA Drops Last-Minute Money for GOP Candidate into Pennsylvania Special Election" by Emily Goodin on abcnews.go.com

[I emphasize that I am a political *Independent*, and am not "anti"-either party - I judge each issue on its own merits.]

I think the language of the flyer "Thank you ... for opposing gun restrictions" is quite poor, employing a double-negative of sorts ("opposing" and "restrictions"), which at first glance imparts a negative impression - in other words, it could, erm, backfire.

Why in hell does everybody have guns lodged in their brain stems? I don't want your damned hunting rifles any more than I want your automobiles.

[Ferris Bueller]

Uh Oh - Officer Accidentally Fires Gun In Del Ray School: Police

[Al Dente]

15 hours ago, Ferris Bueller said:

Uh Oh - Officer Accidentally Fires Gun In Del Ray School: Police

And...

Teacher, reserve cop accidentally fires gun in Calif. high school, police say from CBS News

What a world we live in!

[DaveO]

Moving story about kids in inner city urban school in Philadelphia reacting to #NationalWalkOutDay   Their experiences are deeper. 

[DaveO]

In one school district in Georgia the school administration was against the walk out and some parents support it.

[Ferris Bueller]

Meanwhile, closer to home (as in One Loudoun)...gotta love it when shots are fired into the air.  The bullets don't really come back down do they?  What a dumbass.

[DaveO]

Being part of the solution. Gun buy back program

[DaveO]

Shooting at MD high school

[DonRocks]

2 hours ago, DaveO said:

Shooting at MD high school

Unfortunately, this may be an argument for arming schools, as the shooter was killed by a school officer after injuring two people.

Hey, if it works, it works - after 9/11, Matt was going to pre-school at the JCC, and they'd hired a full-time security guard to work as a sentry at the entrance. Now, I happen to know - almost for a fact - that if a gunman came in there, the guard could have *easily* been taken out with a single shot, but maybe it acted as some type of deterrent.

I *really* don't like "arming teachers," but maybe - *maybe* - having one, highly trained, security guard (hell, our high school had a security guard in the late 1970s, who acted more as a mentor to troubled students) might be of some use. I remember in particular, one time, the biggest, toughest student in our class (who I considered to be a friend and a good person) was tripping on drugs, and the guard gently came into the classroom, put his arm around him, and walked him out - everyone was glad he was there to diffuse the situation.

[Al Dente]

Are there any march-goers here? I'm trying to not let the transportation hassle stop me. 

[DaveO]

20 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Unfortunately, this may be an argument for arming schools, as the shooter was killed by a school officer after injuring two people.

Hey, if it works, it works 

With many shootings occurring at many places in such frequency there will be some situations where a guard will takeout a shooter.  There will also be other outcomes including innocents being shot by the guard(s) and a variety of “endings”, some far less “satisfactory”.

(I recall seeing one news piece on a shootout between cops and armed citizens that resulted in multiple injuries or injury/deaths—far more devastating than a melee)

In the above case the shooter and guard had pistols.

I saw the Florida school shooting news on TV while it was occurring.  Get rid of the assault weapons and do other things also.

I’d follow the kids.  I hope they’re relentless