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Does The 2nd Amendment Provide Absolute Protection To Gun Owners?


DonRocks

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Oh man.  6 weeks following the mass murder of 12 innocent people the Virginia legislature abruptly cancelled an emergency session called by the governor to specifically deal with gun legislation.  Both the upper and lower houses have narrow GOP majorities.  Very narrow.  The abrupt cancellation stunned Dems and the Governor. 

There were supporters of both sides of the debate in Richmond.  Gun supporters were carrying.   The cancellation of the emergency session, after about 90 minutes really didn't give supporters time to raise their voices.

Come this November there will be another state wide election.  In the last election Dems picked up 15 seats, narrowing the vote in both houses, but there remain narrow GOP majorities in both houses.  Again the cancellation was a surprise to both the Governor and the Dems.

It is really the time to get out the vote and change the composition of the state legislature

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I don’t mind 20+ Democrats all feeling that they are Presidential material & all of us tuning in to find out which we might think are correct.  What I mind is the way too little attention given, by the party & the media, to turning the Senate & the state legislatures.  Right now, we could really use the focus that was given to Beto’s Senate run in Texas, etc in order to make sure that states like Virginia don’t remain problematic on major issues like this one.

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1 minute ago, Steve R. said:

What I mind is the way too little attention given, by the party & the media, to turning the Senate & the state legislatures.  

Well, you can forget about "the media" - all the major news organizations cater to the lowest-common denominator. 

Have you seen ABC's World News Tonight in the past year? Here's their format:

1. A storm is making its way across the nation.
2. President Trump did something again.
3. There was a high-speed police chase.

and at the end:

4. A disabled child is surprised by his father on military leave.

It's the same, damned thing, night-in, and night-out. 

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Yeah, but that’s the National news.  The party needs to sink major resources into state & local races.  I would think that local news media would see this as a money maker and glom onto it, knowing that people like soap operas especially when they know the local “stars”.  Abrams’ race in Georgia, Beto’s in Texas, the Fla. Governor and Senate races — all got lots of media coverage.  From what I can see right now, all eyes are on the current Democrat Presidential clown car and not these other key places.  Shouldn’t Beto have made a run for the other Texas Senate seat, etc?

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On 3/24/2018 at 8:49 PM, Ferris Bueller said:

Best Signs from the March - I hope momentum increases and pressure follows....I do not think it will happen, but would love to be proven wrong on this topic.

---

[NB - I hope people click on the above "Best Signs" link. Cheers, Rocks (I'll delete my invasive comment in a couple of days)]

So it has been 18 months since this post...what has changed?

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It does seem to take energy, devotion, and money to get the results one wants.  Money is a big issue.

I looked at the last election in Va from this past June.  I voted.  It was a "small election".  In Arlington, per this article, there are about 150,000 folks registered to vote  In the 2018 election about 71% or a little over 100,000 voted.  That also means about 50,000 didn't vote.  A big total who if motivated could have made a significant difference.

In the 2019 primary in June in Arlington these were the results:

Commonwealth Attorney : 26,200 total votes: 

Primary for member Va Senate:  A total of 20,000 votes

Member House of Delegates:  6600 votes  (must have been for a different part of the County as not on my ballot.  Source for the Above

I didn't know much about the candidates or issues but I researched somewhat and voted.  Of the 2 county wide elections they received 17 and 13% of the total electorate respectively.  Pretty pitiful.  Of course going back to 2018 that 71% was a record for a non presidential election.  (pretty good).

Of note with regard to the Commonwealth Attorney election George Soros' organization invested rather heavily into the election.  His group evidently invested heavily in elections of this sort around the nation.  It was very heavy--effectively a lot of $ per vote for his preferred candidate.  The winner's campaign outspent the loser's by a mega amount.

Now I haven't been involved in party partisan politics for decades.  (I take it there are or were members here who have been involved).  Decades ago I raised money for a friend and was involved with an old friend who was elected to Congress.  Some of what transpired afterwards disappointed me and I stopped being involved.

In any case the Soros backed candidate won by a relatively small amount of votes in a campaign that didn't have critical issues (as far as I was concerned) but was in an election that garnered the most votes and she won.  In any case there was a mammoth $900,000 raised for this campaign with Tafti raising in excess of $700,00 per this article

I still frankly don't understand the criticalness of the issue from the Soros stance, but what is obvious is that money is a big deal. 

Now back in the 1980's I guess I raised a "bit" of money, though I have no recollection of how much it was.  Again, money is a big deal.

I agree with @Steve R. that locals need to get enthused and earnest and raise a lot of money and have the bodies to register voters and vote for your candidates.  You do that on a local basis across the country and on a local basis gun supporters will lose.   And that would be a good thing IMHO.

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In El Paso Shooting Suspect’s Manifesto, an Echo of Trump’s Language By Peter Baker and Michael D. Shear, NYT

20 dead, 26 injured

The Dayton shooter wore a mask, bulletproof vest and hearing protection as he opened fire, police chief says By Jay Croft and Darran Simon, CNN

9 dead 27 injured

Anyone? Anyone?  neighborhood of 29 dead and 53 injured in preliminary #'s - senseless shootings back-to-school shopping and out enjoying themselves - the Dayton shooter even killed his own sister (22).

Are we simply becoming immune to the violence?

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12 minutes ago, Ferris Bueller said:

"...we the people."

If you mean "American citizens as a whole," I think the answer is a resounding "Yes," and that's because they don't experience violence; they only see headlines.

If you mean "Don Rockwell," the answer is a resounding "No," but Don Rockwell considers himself a citizen of the world.

Let's face it: 99% of people (and to some degree, I include myself in this) grouse about it for a day or two, and then move on with their lives. The average person (and I absolutely include myself in this) feels quite powerless to do anything about it - it's going to take a Lincoln-type leader to step up, and fight against the yahoos (and, by extension, the ultra-wealthy who pander to them in order to preserve their "perfect union").

Remember the name Pete Buttigieg (and, absent some unforeseen scandal, remember I said this twenty years from now).

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4 hours ago, DonRocks said:

That depends on what you mean by "we."

I think the collective "we" are very fed up, but also don't see a real way out politically either.  I think you would have to have a constitutional amendment, and I just don't think that is likely to happen, but sure would be happy about it.  So I think "we" just don't really know what to do that would be effective.

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Ultimately the voters are going to have to turn out Republicans and vote in Democrats.  The GOP is probably somewhere around 95% tied in with the NRA and per what I've read the more extreme element of the NRA won out over other internal groups.  In other words they will fight any changes anywhere softening the availability of guns.

The current GOP dilemma of "avoiding the topic" has been something that has been "about to occur" for a long time.  Now:  Two big shootings within a day of one another...that followed the Gilroy shooting by a couple of days. 

We have this sick amazing gun problem that is unique to the world and we have a powerful lobby with one party completely dedicated to preventing any changes.

Time to change that party.

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2 more just died, so the total for El Paso as of this writing is 22. Shocked is not the correct word, perhaps saddened or pissed - trying to explain it to my kids is the hardest part. Despite vigilance in attempting to shield them from the news coverage for 72 hours and then nothing.

2 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Remember the name Pete Buttigieg (and, absent some unforeseen scandal, remember I said this twenty years from now).

I hear you, but like it or not his sexual orientation will be his Achilles. I do not agree with how the process works that way, however we are still stuck on stupid.

Mayor Pete calls for change after deadly shootings: 'We cannot allow the Second Amendment to be a death sentence'.  

We are powerless - fragmented and like I mentioned months ago, I would love to be proven wrong on this.  I just do not observe a climate of change, politically or socially. It is a 72-hour window following these tragedies and then it is gone...until the next one.

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8 minutes ago, Ferris Bueller said:

I hear you, but like it or not his sexual orientation will be his Achilles.

That's why I said twenty years from now (plus there's the general impression, right or wrong, that he's too young).

1 hour ago, DaveO said:

Ultimately the voters are going to have to turn out Republicans and vote in Democrats. 

I'd like to say that this is a non-political community, but right now I look at this as a simple logic statement:

(IF R THEN X) AND (IF D THEN (NOT X))

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24 minutes ago, Ferris Bueller said:

2 more just died, so the total for El Paso as of this writing is 22. Shocked is not the correct word, perhaps saddened or pissed - trying to explain it to my kids is the hardest part. Despite vigilance in attempting to shield them from the news coverage for 72 hours and then nothing.

I hear you, but like it or not his sexual orientation will be his Achilles. I do not agree with how the process works that way, however we are still stuck on stupid.

Mayor Pete calls for change after deadly shootings: 'We cannot allow the Second Amendment to be a death sentence'.  

We are powerless - fragmented and like I mentioned months ago, I would love to be proven wrong on this.  I just do not observe a climate of change, politically or socially. It is a 72-hour window following these tragedies and then it is gone...until the next one.

Maybe it is a 72 hour window.  Maybe (hopefully) it is longer.   Actually the GOP house got its Arse handed to it in 2018.  A tremendous loss.  During the election tWump campaigned....and said it was about him.  Well if that is so that loss got his arse handed to him.

Hopefully there will be similar momentum in this upcoming election, hopefully the House goes more Democratic, and the Senate goes Democratic.  Hopefully.     The Virginia state legislatures are very evenly divided at this point.  They are close with a small edge to the GOP.  There is a statewide election this Autumn.  Great opportunity to try and get Dems elected to replace the GOP.  

Remember:   Following the shooting in Virginia Beach (May 31 this year--12 murdered plus the shooter shot by law enforcement) there has yet to be a definitive description on why the shooter did this.  The investigation is ongoing, but no one had immediate reasons or ideas.   The shooter was a long term employee of Virginia Beach and in good standing.  He was also a "loner".

Shortly afterwards the Governor called for a state hearing on guns.   With no warning the GOP tabled the discussion after about an hour.  The state legislature had a large number of protesting and supportive people.  They were there from both sides.   Among the pro gun people there were people who were openly carrying weapons.

The makeup of the Virginia legislature COULD change this Autumn.  It will be close.  It will take a get out to vote campaign. 

Should the legislature change hands and the Dems prevail, and the Dems, with a majority take up changing state wide gun laws.....I bet there will be further issues.

But that is another story. 

Lets get a new legislature in there.

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16 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I know times have changed quite a bit, but it’s worth mentioning that the Democrats controlled the Presidency, the Senate, and the House in 1993 and 1994.

Not sure of the relevance of that to the issue of gun control.  BTW:  Columbine occurred in "98 and Sandy Hook occurred in 2012. 

If one is interested in the ebb and flow of Dems and the GOP in the Presidency, Senate, and House over time there is this description of divided government in the US. 

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1 hour ago, DaveO said:

Not sure of the relevance of that to the issue of gun control.  BTW:  Columbine occurred in "98 and Sandy Hook occurred in 2012. 

If one is interested in the ebb and flow of Dems and the GOP in the Presidency, Senate, and House over time there is this description of divided government in the US. 

It's relevant to all issues. The James Huberty McDonald's Slaughter occurred in 1984, and the George Hennard Luby's Massacre occurred in 1991. My point is: Don't assume that just because a party controls the Executive and Legislative branches simultaneously, there will be automatic relief to whichever problem you're concerned about (or, as you implicitly pointed out, that the situation will last) - more than once, the Republicans controlled both branches, and the federal deficit (arguably their main platform for a generation) skyrocketed each time.

That said, if gun control is your primary issue of concern, you essentially have two choices right now, and the better choice is obvious. We have an autocrat in the White House, and a megalomaniac controlling the Senate, and the combination has put this nation - and to some degree, this world - in a state of crisis: Even Paul Ryan has become a rapidly fading memory, and he was House Speaker *this year*.

If anyone is wondering "what I'm trying to say here," the answer is: not a whole lot - just that the damage done is going to be, at the minimum, long-lasting.

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Gun Laws (scorecard) - Texas received an F, Ohio a D.

Virginia received a D.

Do not mean to get off topic, but because the gun law/safety/background check appears to have a direct affect on incidents (there are multiple sources out there, I just used the Giffords site). 

Additionally - The NY to Florida Pipeline (I95) has been historic for many years and the Virginia laws lax enough to make it an attractive stop for those going through to replenish their firearm(s) stock.  Since this a DC-Metro area based website from inception, I only wanted to point out since it literally in our own backyard.  

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49 minutes ago, Ferris Bueller said:

Additionally - The NY to Florida Pipeline (I95) has been historic for many years and the Virginia laws lax enough to make it an attractive stop for those going through to replenish their firearm(s) stock.  Since this a DC-Metro area based website from inception, I only wanted to point out since it literally in our own backyard.  

To get even more off-topic, I'm' curious: Does South of the Border sell ammo? I've only been once, over thirty-years ago, and all I remember is cheesy signs and souvenirs.

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