Jump to content

Momofuku CCDC (2015-2020), a Popular New York Pan-Asian Chain in City Center, Open for Lunch and Dinner Seven Days


Recommended Posts

Any info on waits?  I'd like to try to go with 2 friends tomorrow around 8:30.  I will go earlier to put our names in.  Have the waits been insane??

Rieux, we've been twice; the first time, a Sunday night, we waited about 40 minutes, but when we left around 8:30 pm or so, there was no wait. Last night, there was no wait for four or two tops at 6:00 pm; when we came back around 6:30, we were quoted an hour wait, but ended up just chilling in the entry area for maybe ten minutes before being seated. Hostesses are actually quite helpful (though a bit overwhelmed). Friend of mine went Tuesday night and waited right around 40 minutes.

Cheers!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

we were quoted an hour wait, but ended up just chilling in the entry area for maybe ten minutes before being seated.

That's awesome news for you, but it makes me wonder what's going on over there!!!??! They were off by a factor of 6! Could you imagine if the error went the other way? You'd have been there for 6 hours!!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's awesome news for you, but it makes me wonder what's going on over there!!!??! They were off by a factor of 6! Could you imagine if the error went the other way? You'd have been there for 6 hours!!

Precisely. Like I said, I'm not sure if they were just trying to overestimate or what, but it's kind of a cluster there at the host stand. I'm sure they'll smooth out as they go along and find a system that works. It's definitely a place designed to turn tables (food comes out as it's ready, and that kitchen bangs dishes out *fast*), so most waits will probably be less than quoted...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My wife and I popped in here last night as we were anxious to try the place before the menu evolved and the "greatest hits" were no longer represented.

We got there at 5:45 and the line went from the hostess stand to the interior door.  If you haven't been there, that's not very far.  We waited maybe 3 or 4 minutes as they were processing the people in front of us and were seated in minutes!  Don't know if it was the crappy weather or because it was a Tuesday or the early hour but we had essentially no wait.  It did get a little crowded around the door during our, but when we left, there weren't many/any people waiting.

David Chang was not there.  We didn't see him we heard one of the hostesses say as much as she was taking someone to a table who looked into the kitchen and said "Where's my man?"

We sat at the counter facing into the kitchen,  I love these kind of seats for the view and minor interaction with the chefs.  All the other seats in the place looked to be communal dining......long, narrow tables on high, backless chairs.  Each table maybe sat 10 or 12 per side.

As mentioned before, the drinks were pricey.  We got a bottle of Barboursville Viognier for $58.  I think it was the only local wine on the list.

Having never been to a Chang-place before we wanted to try the "famous" dishes so we ordered the Pork Buns $12 and the Brisket Buns $13.  Both were good, but our favorite by far was the brisket buns.  The meat had a nice, slight char on it and the horseradish added some nice contrast.  It almost reminded me of a gyro some how.  If you haven't seen them, these buns are not like bao buns (sealed dumpling-looking things).  They were more like small soft tacos....served open faced.

We got the Momofuku Ramen (pork belly, pork shoulder, poached egg) $17.  Served warm with broth.  Very tasty.  The only other "real" ramen I've had was at Toki Underground 2 years ago, so I can't really remember that much to compare the two.  We also got the Ginger Sallion Noodles (pickled shiitake, cucumber, cabbage) $14.  Vegetarian.  This was half cold (noodles) and half warm (veggies).  There was no broth here.  My wife liked this one better, I liked the other one better.

We looked at the dessert menu, but those 4 dishes stuffed to the max so we just waddled out.  Very good and different!

PS - the actual menu is different than the online menu.  For instance, they had Korean Catfish listed last night that doesn't appear online. Just an FYI.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also there last night. They're releasing very limited reservations on OpenTable in addition to through their own system -- when I checked last week, there was a 6:15 for last night and something at 5:15 one night the first week in December, and that was it. So Tuesday night it was. Promptly seated at a table for two against the inside wall. Wouldn't want to sit on these chairs for a long time, but not an issue with the speed of service at this point -- we were completely done in under an hour, and as you'll see below, we didn't exactly skimp on the ordering.

The Pork Buns are one of my favorites at Ssam Bar in NYC so I wasn't leaving without an order of those. They tasted and looked exactly as remembered. Yum.

The Shrimp Louis was solid (seemed out of place on this menu, and was thoroughly classic except for the jalapeí±os) and my dining companion seemed happy with the Egg and Pepper (I don't like eggs, but the pepper was tasty enough.)

Entrees were both stellar. The cold noodles with sausage and cashews lived up to the waiter's advance warning of spiciness. Korean Fried Chicken turned out to be crunchy fried cubes on a bed of quinoa with some lettuce for wrapping, and really well done, piping hot.

We got a compost cookie for the road and ordered Brisket Buns as our dessert. This was the only dish I didn't love. The meat was a little firm and chewy for my taste in this format -- it didn't melt away like the pork belly does, and since the meat was tougher than the bun it didn't quite all meld together. I love classic meat and horseradish but the bun may just not be the right delivery system for me (though I see above others loved them, so very much YMMV.)

Was concerned about drink prices from the discussion above but they now serve 16oz of the DC Brau Corruption IPA for $7. Went well with everything.

As we arrived just after 6:15 we heard the wait quoted as an hour and a half, and the front entry was absolutely packed. By the time we left an hour later there were only a couple people waiting. Whether everyone had given up or it's easier if you don't go right after work, I don't know. The place was hopping.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As we arrived just after 6:15 we heard the wait quoted as an hour and a half, and the front entry was absolutely packed. By the time we left an hour later there were only a couple people waiting. Whether everyone had given up or it's easier if you don't go right after work, I don't know. The place was hopping.

Fascinating. I went last night prepared for a long wait. We also arrived right around 6:15 and were told it could be up to a 45 minute wait but a bunch of tables were turning over. So we went to the bar to get a drink. Before we could even order a drink, they texted us to say our table was ready.

They took us to that semi-private back room up a ramp. It was basically empty. Seems like they might be doing some crowd control while the kitchen gets its sea legs.

We didn't love the food. It was good, it wasn't great. The pork buns were good, but dripping in fat. Our waiter recommended the biscuit bites with sezchuan pepper corn honey butter. The butter had no heat whatsoever. The kimchi was unremarkable. Ginger scallion noodles were greasy. The Korean fried catfish was not nearly as good as the version at Rose's Luxury. Also, we got dessert - a slice of crack pie. It came in a package (with ingredient labeling) and refrigerator cold. Kind of like what you would get if purchasing it at a gift shop or something. Having never had the Milk Bar version (maybe this is how they sell it) we were really put off by the presentation.

Overall, I guess I'd go back. Its right across the street from my office and I can foresee an evening where I'd just want some ramen (provided there wasn't a 90 min wait).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dinner tonight. Absolutely delicious.

Service was extremely friendly but not on fleek.  Maybe just a little understaffed.

Momofuku food is not subtle.  But it is deep in flavor, and sometimes complex in flavor.  I call it "new American stoner cuisine" although I am not a stoner - but, like many stoners, I appreciate an unsubtle flavor bomb.

The menu is largely as posted here a couple of weeks ago (see previous page of discussion) but with some changes; the website's menu is current.

"Pepper and egg" ($4) is a delicious soy-sauce-marinated egg with jalapeno and with lots of fried shallots.  It is a rare treat to be given enough fried shallots that you can just eat all the remaining ones out of the bowl when every other ingredient is gone.  Spicy cucumber ($7) is, as mentioned above, a hard dish to figure out exactly what's in it - there is bite-sized-cut cucumber, and (I think) Korean pepper powder, and a little fish sauce, and then I don't know what but it's great.

The vegetarian ramen ($14) is orders of magnitude better than any other veg ramen or other veg noodle soup dish I have ever had.  The broth has good fatty mouth-feel (icky word) and depth of flavor, and the noodles are very good.

If tonight was representative, then if you were to wander in at 8:30 or 9 on a weekday as a party of 1 or 2, I expect that you could be seated immediately at the bar or likely even at a table.

[Editing a couple of minutes later just to add this: Momofuku, at least in my awareness of it, came along just as "hip" good food was becoming especially pork-obsessed, and was (to my eye, and I think correctly) a strong part of that movement. The cult of Alan Benton. This grew tiresome.  Credit to Mr. Chang, for the fact that even while he is still happy to push the Benton pig in some dishes, he has figured out that it is possible and even fun to create the same fatty smokey goodness through vegetarian methods.]

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dropped by last night at around 9:30pm with a party for 4 and were seated immediately. Restaurant was still buzzing, but with some empty tables sprinkled about.

Beef Noodle Soup had the beefiest broth I had ever sipped, with very buttery, dry-aged steak notes. Very tasty and unique, without the funky star anise notes that many people find off-putting in traditional beef noodle soups. Noodles were cooked perfectly and remained firm to the last slurp.

Momofuku ramen was also delicious; really liked the smoky bacon notes in the broth. Again, noodle texture was springy and perfect. Would have preferred to see more chopped scallions in the soup to offset the richenss, but still a very good dish.

Vegetarian ramen was polarizing. I really enjoyed the slightly fatter noodles and the rich hozon broth, but my wife found it to be a huge salt/msg bomb.

Shitake buns were not very remarkable. I think using larger pieces of mushroom would help, but the whole thing was just overly seasoned.

Pork buns were reliably awesome and tender, and the least salty dish of the night. I think the meat/veg ratio is slightly off on this, and would taste better w' more cucumber or even kimchi.

In all, our meal was very rich and hearty, yet somewhat one-noted, due to our noodle and bun heavy selection. Going forward, we would probably order a side of kimchi or something else acidic to help cut through this intense richness.

In terms of vibe, this is definitely the nicest momofuku space i have ever been to. Lighting was overly dim at first, but was brightened later on so we could see our food. Restrooms seem too small for a space of this size. Service was friendly and not overly intrusive.

We stopped by Milk Bar afterwards to pick up cookies at around 10:30pm. Only one other party ahead of us, but they ended up waiting 10 min for their soft serve order. When it was our turn to order, their iPad-based POS system went haywire, so our transaction ended up being comped.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the sheer size of the space must make it difficult to estimate waits properly. We got there right before opening a few Saturdays ago, and the line stretched all the way down to the gap/walkway between the two halves of CCDC, maybe 100+ people. We were sure we would have to wait, but the doors opened, the line kept moving, and our party of 4 was seated with tables to spare. The food was uniformly good, although I agree with the comment above that it is not subtle. I liked my Ginger and Scallion Noodles the best out of everything we ordered (ramen, beef noodle soup, pork buns), perhaps because it did have a bit of sharpness to cut through the rich food.

Also as stated above, the dessert from Milk Bar was a real let-down. A cold, pre-packaged slice of pie or plastic sealed cookie doesn't seem like the way anybody would want to end a nice meal out. I wonder if they would at least unwrap it and heat it up for you on a plate if you asked. That and a scoop of vanilla ice cream and I would be happy; the crack pie itself was actually very delicious, though small.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely agree on the desserts. I was surprised that I had to open a package - maybe someone mentioned that up thread and I just didn't see it. We went for the first time last Sunday - 6:30 res and no one was waiting when we got there - nor when we left, for that matter, although the line for Milk Bar was out the door. We didn't get to try much since we were with some non-sharers. The cold noodles were delicious and spicy, and satisfied my craving for the spicy sausage that comes with the rice cakes at Ssam Bar. The catfish was also good. Definitely would go back to try more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NYE at CCDC was fine, but it certainly could have been more of a wow.  But it was priced moderately and was fun.  I would go back to try some more interesting dishes, I don't think based on the experience Hubby is really excited to go back soon, but I don't think he would not go either.  We were discussing different places we have been lucky enough to eat at and I think just expected a tiny bit more from such an accomplished restaurateur.  (For instance they could have really changed the tone just by adding the buns in as the first course or etc)  Hubby commented that it seemed like they were trying to do an easy to put out menu, which I am sure they were on a busy night, but for a restaurant that was expecting to be slammed every night from when it opened not sure why this is the case for NYE.  The first course was biscuits with caviar.  They had some sort of butter in the middle, that may have had pork fat in it?  The biscuits were good, caviar was good, but it wasn't super interesting.  The next course was a black bass crudo with apples and a sauce that was soy based, if it was supposed to be a ponzu, it didn't have much taste to it.  The fish was really good, the apples however were bland and instead of elevating the fish, kind of brought it down.  Next up was a foie gras terrine.  This was one of the star dishes.  It had a really good compote and arugula.  One pet peeve though, they brought it out with 3 crositini when you clearly needed more, the request for more was quickly obliged, but why give two people 3 pieces of bread when clearly 1) you should serve an even number of bread pieces to two people 2) you clearly knew unless people were eating it straight up with chopsticks it would require more.  Then we had pork chops that were also really well done, but not special and brussel sprouts which Hubby adored, but I thought had too much soy sauce, but they weren't bad.  For dessert there was a milk bar sundae.  They choose the cereal milk one (it would have been cooler if you had a few choices) and they said the meal was family style, and only served one dessert, but I thought that just seemed tacky as unlike other dishes where you could move the food to your own plate or it was a terrine or something.  It just felt odd.  It ended up being fine because Hubby hated the sourness of the milk so I ate most of it, which is a shame because I was thinking an ice cream sundae would be his favorite part, he loves ice cream and doesn't get it very often since I am lactose intolerant.  Larger groups got the Bo Ssam which looked a bit more interesting.

Anyway it was fine, I would go back to try more interesting things, but after this meal, I am not in any rush to get back as I hoped I might be.  The good news is that the cocktail program was really nice.  We each had three cocktails and really enjoyed them, they did have wow flavors.  I got the Juniper #3, Peche, both well balanced not sweet, and Penicilin which was sour and spicy in a good way.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there any recent information on what waits are like?i had the vegetarian hozon ramen in nyc and loved it, and would love to have it again, but am not up for a huge wait, especially now that winter has emerged. 

I was there on Monday at 1:00 (with reservation) - there were open tables for 2 at that time, and maybe a table for 4 even - was told that it is generally easy to walk in as 2 at that time - and the hozon ramen was still incredibly great.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried the to go lunch special yesterday.  Tonkatsu with rice, pickled cucumbers and onions.  The pork cutlet had a very nice crunch, but the middle was a bit underdone for my taste.  I know "pink" pork is moist but this was tough and chewy.  The ssam sauce had a nice kick to it, but the huge pile of greasy large cut onions added nothing.  The staff was very disorganized and unprofessional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a very different experience on the same day.  Tonkatsu perfectly cooked.  Onions added a lot.  And staff was friendly and very organized.  Not saying creole7's experience wasn't very different -- I'm sure it was.  So perhaps this reflects still-early jitters/inconsistency.  The pupusas on Mondays are quite good, but really suffer a lot for being packaged and not eaten immediately off the griddle -- they should add those to the eat-in lunch menu, and choose something else for Monday take-out.  Take-out on Tuesday is pho ga; on Wednesday, "sausage biscuit," and on Friday it's fried chicken (a thigh and a breast)--I haven't tried any of those yet.

I tried the to go lunch special yesterday.  Tonkatsu with rice, pickled cucumbers and onions.  The pork cutlet had a very nice crunch, but the middle was a bit underdone for my taste.  I know "pink" pork is moist but this was tough and chewy.  The ssam sauce had a nice kick to it, but the huge pile of greasy large cut onions added nothing.  The staff was very disorganized and unprofessional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One small data point: best thing, by far, I've had at Momofuku CCDC was the braised fried chicken (inspired by the version at Wu's Garden).  (It was added to the lunch menu sometime after opening but only now seems to be on the "weekend lunch" menu.)

It's exactly what it sounds like, and defies all logic, but it was disarmingly good and the only dish, for me, that's fulfilled Chang's promise of bringing new innovative dishes to his DC outpost.  Naysayers should try it, though I haven't had anything else on the menu that's been nearly this good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking forward to that, Simon -- I've been underwhelmed by the other items I've gotten there, and I'm a longtime Ssam Bar fan.  (The rice cakes were probably the best, but nothing all that special.)  I did very much like the Tonkotsu for carry out, though.

FYI:  I'm informed that the fried chicken available today, and every Friday, for carry out, is not the same as the Wu's braised version -- it's a traditional buttermilk fried recipe.

One small data point: best thing, by far, I've had at Momofuku CCDC was the braised fried chicken (inspired by the version at Wu's Garden).  (It was added to the lunch menu sometime after opening but only now seems to be on the "weekend lunch" menu.)

It's exactly what it sounds like, and defies all logic, but it was disarmingly good and the only dish, for me, that's fulfilled Chang's promise of bringing new innovative dishes to his DC outpost.  Naysayers should try it, though I haven't had anything else on the menu that's been nearly this good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well in good news and bad news, our lunch here was much better than our New Years Eve meal.   We had the brisket buns, which were really tasty, excellent brisket (I added a little ssam sauce).  I would like to try the mushroom bun, but Matt doesn't like mushrooms, so that will be for a time I don't share.  I got the spicy chilled noodles and MK got the twice fried pork noodles.  We liked both dishes.  My dish had nice spicy sausage, cashews and some fresh spinach which I thought was great.  It had a lot of nuts and spinach though.  I could have taken home the rest of the nuts and sausage if we weren't in the middle of galavanting to some museums and made the whole meal over again.  I liked the texture of my dish and the spice level was good, but not overwhelming.  MK's noodles were similar, I didn't notice a real discernible texture difference, but it may have been because it had a more soft sauce on it.  Although his dish as a whole was more umami flavored, I think I preferred mine.  Our SIL had the ramen which I didn't try, but she liked it.  Next time I will probably just order a starter and a bun if there for lunch.  I do want to try the fried chicken at some point though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First time at Momofuku, probably one more trial before we go back to authentic food in Annandale.  Way too much XO and 5 Spice everything.

For the food:

Grover and I split an order of Shrimp buns and Brisket buns.  More like flattened Chinese steam buns turned into tacos.  For some reason, every time I looked at the brisket, it reminded me of pork belly.  I think it had to do with the layer of fat under the skin.  The Shrimp buns were an interesting dish.  A large blob (I really don't know how else to describe it) of shrimp bonded into a contiguous mass.  I have to admit, it did taste like shrimp which was in it's favor.

As a side we got cucumber (oi kimchi) kimchi.  Sorry, no resemblance to oi kimchi.  No bite, no spice (with the exception of XO(?) again.  With nuts or some crunchy something and coated with some mysterious green something.  David Chang seems to have forgotten his Korean upbringing.  This was more Mott Street than Seoul.

For a main I got Shrimp noodles.  When the dish arrived I thought I'd made a mistake.  This is a dish that belongs in an red tablecloth Italian restaurant.  What looked like pappardelle noodles in cream sauce with pieces of shrimp.  It was presented as XO (again?  Arghhhh!) noodles.  The addition of potato chips (or something similar) was an interesting touch.  A nice cream sauce that Dean Gold would happily serve on a date night $9.96 special pasta dish made me long for a good bottle of Barolo.  Well, the pasta was a bit al dente so that was a minor point in it's favor (especially if this had been an Italian restaurant).  Made it through about a quarter (six 2 foot long noodles :) ) before I gave up.

Grover had Ramen: quick synopsis:  Soup was good. The ramen?  So-so.  She did say that Daiakya had better ramen.  This is Asian food for people who have a passing familiarity with Asian food and are afraid of spice.  The nice thing about the food is that I could take my grandmother here and she would have no problem with the spiciness (or lack of).

Service was a bit haphazard at times.  The table next to us got the wrong order a couple of times, I think I may have been served the incorrect dish (one of the servers Italian take out, maybe?) but our server was a familiar face, she kept the sparkling water coming and it was a pleasure seeing her again.

 The bill, including taxes but not tip was just short of $80 or the rough equivalent of three dinners for two in almost any restaurant in Annandale.  As I said, we'll try once more just to see if what we experienced was an off night

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Poor writing. Tom Seitsema calls all Chinese small plates dim sum. Similarly, all Asian pickled veggies are called Kimchi by many.

Gosh! you're right.  I just started eating Asian food this week and let me tell you, there's a big variation.  Why did you know that not all egg rolls are the same?  Actually, just to assuage you, you're correct, we didn't look at the menu when we asked if they had cucumber kimchi.  We were assured that they had.  Now, our server may not have known what cucumber kimchi was,  but we specified cucumber KIMCHI.  This was definitely not oi kimchi. As to Sietsma, what he knows about Korean food could be summed up in one word, "nothing".

If I had known we were going to be eating in a more expensive Cafe Asia, we could have saved a lot of money and gone to Annandale.

I accept your apology. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps Chang isn't aiming for canonical versions of Korean dishes?

It's possible to dislike a restaurant without insulting the palates of those who dig it.

I totally agree with you.  However, if you are running what is described as a Pan-Asian restaurant, don't you think you might be a bit more reflective of the cuisine you say you are serving?  My noodle order (to repeat myself) would not be out of place in an Italian restaurant.  If David C. was aiming for a canonical Korean he missed by an extreme margin.  Korean foods are extremely varied, running from what might be described as bland to the pyrotechnical extreme at the other end. There are some dishes that common to vast areas of Asia, ramen being one.  The largest variation in ramen is the soup, the common factor is the ramen noodle.  There is a certain expectation of what the noodles should taste like, the texture, and the mouth feel.  If any of those are missing, it detracts from the dish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[i sent you two a PM - just put your heads together and let me know which of these miscommunications you want me to nix. :)]

Please keep 'em all!

This was a hilarious and sarcastic mini episode that ended cordially

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally agree with you.  However, if you are running what is described as a Pan-Asian restaurant, don't you think you might be a bit more reflective of the cuisine you say you are serving?  My noodle order (to repeat myself) would not be out of place in an Italian restaurant.  If David C. was aiming for a canonical Korean he missed by an extreme margin.  Korean foods are extremely varied, running from what might be described as bland to the pyrotechnical extreme at the other end. There are some dishes that common to vast areas of Asia, ramen being one.  The largest variation in ramen is the soup, the common factor is the ramen noodle.  There is a certain expectation of what the noodles should taste like, the texture, and the mouth feel.  If any of those are missing, it detracts from the dish.

I may be in the minority, and it may be because of my long history eating at Chang's restaurants, but I've never really thought of Momofuku as "Pan-Asian."  More like: whatever he felt like cooking at the moment.  In the "FAQ" section of Momofuku CCDC's website there is this:

What type of cuisine is it?

We try our best to serve delicious American food.

"‹This is a restaurant with Shrimp Louie, a wedge salad, and Old Bay pork rinds on the menu after all.

Your comment about the noodles verging on Italian food is interesting...He recently opened Momofuku Nishi in New York, which is doing several Italian-ish preparations using decidedly non-Italian ingredients.  So that dish may well have been aiming to remind you of an Italian pasta.

I don't see "Oi Kimchi" on the current menu, but that may have changed.  I do see cucumber pickles, which have been a mainstay since Noodle Bar.  Those pickles are decidedly mild, though I find them refreshing with all the other heaviness he puts out.  Regardless, it got me thinking that chef's often play with words just as much as they do with food.  For instance, Chef Ziebold has a dessert on the menu that lists "Pecan Nduja."  I asked our waiter about this when we first went, and he explained that no, there is not really any spicy, funky pork salami in the chocolate cake, but the chef used "Nduja" to describe the spreadable paste served with it.  I don't know where I'm going with this, other than to say you got me thinking about how what a chef names a dish can really color how we experience it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see "Oi Kimchi" on the current menu, but that may have changed.  I do see cucumber pickles, which have been a mainstay since Noodle Bar. Regardless, it got me thinking that chef's often play with words just as much as they do with food.  For instance, Chef Ziebold has a dessert on the menu that lists "Pecan Nduja."  I asked our waiter about this when we first went, and he explained that no, there is not really any spicy, funky pork salami in the chocolate cake, but the chef used "Nduja" to describe the spreadable paste served with it.  I don't know where I'm going with this, other than to say you got me thinking about how what a chef names a dish can really color how we experience it.

I believe you misread what I wrote.  We asked if there was cucumber kimchi available.  I added the parenthetical oi kimchi, because that's what cucumber kimchi is in Korean. (You get not only a personal restaurant review but a language primer all in one neat little lump.)

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean"”neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master"”that's all."

"• Lewis Carroll

Sort of reminds you of Momofuku in a way :D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may be in the minority, and it may be because of my long history eating at Chang's restaurants, but I've never really thought of Momofuku as "Pan-Asian."  More like: whatever he felt like cooking at the moment.  In the "FAQ" section of Momofuku CCDC's website there is this:

David does a savvy job of covering himself, basically saying, 'we serve whatever it is we serve,' and as a result, purists can't really go after him. I think Pan-Asian is as good a descriptor as anything, at least in my eyes - that tag was very carefully considered before I put it up there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David does a savvy job of covering himself, basically saying, 'we serve whatever it is we serve,' and as a result, purists can't really go after him. I think Pan-Asian is as good a descriptor as anything, at least in my eyes - that tag was very carefully considered before I put it up there.

I'm not sure it is exactly "covering" yourself to say that you serve what you want.  It's what most chefs do.

If you go expecting to compare to Korean places in Annandale, you are going in with the wrong expectations.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure it is exactly "covering" yourself to say that you serve what you want.  It's what most chefs do.

If you go expecting to compare to Korean places in Annandale, you are going in with the wrong expectations.

I completely agree with you, Momofuku in it's finer minutes, will never be able to compete with Annandale for Korean food.  However, if you serve something with a Korean name, a Korean heritage, and supposedly a Korean taste, don't you kind of expect something that happens to fall within your Korean taste parameters?

And while it's true that most chefs serve what they want,  most chefs seem to think that if they're in an Italian restaurant, the food will have some resemblance to Italian food, just as an Asian chef will serve Asian food.  My complaint about another "Pan-Asian" restaurant is that they serve a lot of different ethnic foods, none of which are very good.  But if you think a wide variety is great, it's the place to go. If you want to play molecular chemistry with food, you don't call your restaurant a hot dog stand.

The funniest thing about this whole brouhaha (okay, food fight) is the spotlight on one word.  I haven't seen a single refutation of anything else that was written.  I guess that's some justification of my observations.   (Oh, and Milk Bar?  Don't even get me started :))

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

... The funniest thing about this whole brouhaha (okay, food fight) is the spotlight on one word.  I haven't seen a single refutation of anything else that was written.  I guess that's some justification of my observations. ...

I don't think that your conclusion follows.  No one could refute that you like food spicier than you were served, and no one could refute that you found the pasta dish to be strange and not in line with what you expected or what you like.  I personally agree with the point that the noodles at Daikaya are better than the noodles at Momofuku.  But what else is there to refute or (conversely) to justify?

Given how strongly David Chang has made the point that he is not seeking to serve the "authentic" food of any cuisine other than his own desires (and his chefs'), I am surprised that anyone would go to Momofuku expecting anything like Annandale in any dish.  (And I am especially surprised if anyone would expect the server to say anything like "oh, you ask specifically if we have oi kimchi, well I should tell you since you are obviously a connoisseur that ours is untraditional" ...)

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely agree with you, Momofuku in it's finer minutes, will never be able to compete with Annandale for Korean food.  However, if you serve something with a Korean name, a Korean heritage, and supposedly a Korean taste, don't you kind of expect something that happens to fall within your Korean taste parameters?

And while it's true that most chefs serve what they want,  most chefs seem to think that if they're in an Italian restaurant, the food will have some resemblance to Italian food, just as an Asian chef will serve Asian food.  My complaint about another "Pan-Asian" restaurant is that they serve a lot of different ethnic foods, none of which are very good.  But if you think a wide variety is great, it's the place to go. If you want to play molecular chemistry with food, you don't call your restaurant a hot dog stand.

The funniest thing about this whole brouhaha (okay, food fight) is the spotlight on one word.  I haven't seen a single refutation of anything else that was written.  I guess that's some justification of my observations.   (Oh, and Milk Bar?  Don't even get me started :))

They don't serve cucumber kimchi!  It's not on the menu! You had the unfortunate experience of having a server who didn't understand the difference between pickled vegetables and kimchi, and tried too hard to please you.  Annoying? Yes.  A damning piece of evidence that Chang has somehow forgotten or forsaken his Korean heritage to please the pale whitebread eating masses?  Hardly.

I stand by my opinion (which is in line with how the restaurant describes itself) that Momofuku is not at all a "Pan-Asian" restaurant.  Reasonable people can disagree.  Eric Ziebold has tempura on his menu right now.  And sashimi.  And a duck dish with fermented black beans.  And another with tofu and yuzo kosho sauce.  Is Kinship a Pan-Asian restaurant?

As for your 2nd paragraph:  An Asian chef has no obligation to serve Asian food.  If you have that expectation of Chang, that is on you, not him.

I think this discussion has been enlightening far from the concern about the issue of "kimchi."

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think that your conclusion follows.  No one could refute that you like food spicier than you were served, and no one could refute that you found the pasta dish to be strange and not in line with what you expected or what you like.  I personally agree with the point that the noodles at Daikaya are better than the noodles at Momofuku.  But what else is there to refute or (conversely) to justify?

Given how strongly David Chang has made the point that he is not seeking to serve the "authentic" food of any cuisine other than his own desires (and his chefs'), I am surprised that anyone would go to Momofuku expecting anything like Annandale in any dish.  (And I am especially surprised if anyone would expect the server to say anything like "oh, you ask specifically if we have oi kimchi, well I should tell you since you are obviously a connoisseur that ours is untraditional" ...)

Okay, I'm going to say this one more time (and for the LAST TIME).  We asked if they had CUCUMBER KIMCHI (see those words to the left?  The ones spelled C-U-C-U-M-B-E-R  K-I-M-C-H-I?)  We asked if they had cucumber KIMCHI, The answer was yes, they had CUCUMBER KIMCHI.  To expand the horizons of anyone who might want to go to a Korean restaurant (or Super-H) and try CUCUMBER KIMCHI I added the parenthetical (you know,  words that are between those things that are shaped like ( and  )) comment with the Korean for CUCUMBER KIMCHI.  That Korean two letter phrase is OI KIMCHI, we didn't ask for OI KIMCHI, we asked for CUCUMBER KIMCHI.

I hope that clears up any misconception that we asked for OI KIMCHI when we asked for CUCUBER KIMCHI (daggonit! :D)  I certainly can agree that he is not seeking to serve authentic anything, he's right on target with that effort.  As a matter of fact, he might be outdoing himself.  Just out of curiousity, what do you consider what he's doing?  He's certainly not breaking new ground anywhere.  What do you feel he's attempting to do?  If a restaurant serves 70% Asian food is it Pan-Asian?  How about 60% or 90%?

As to the Italian food on the menu (excuse me the XO noodles which were actually shrimp noodles even though on the check they were described as XO noodles), if I had really wanted Italian food, I would have gone to a place where I would have had the reasonable expectation that if I wanted Shrimp Pappardelle, I would have received Shrimp with Pappardelle noodles.

Anyway, it's entirely academic. I didn't go with the expectation that I would find a reflection of one of the better Annandale restaurants, I went with the expectation of being served food that would challenge the pedestrian, would expand my food horizons (even a bit) and would make me appreciate even more the width and breadth of the Asian influence on modern gastronomy.  Unfortunately, I was disappointed, and I said so.  There was nothing in the food that made it rise above the any of the most mediocre of the Chinese restaurants in DC's Chinatown or any of the Korean restaurants in Annandale.  There was no challenge, no "amazing" moment, just somewhat average food that (in my most humble opinion) was trying way too hard to be anything more than mainstream.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[Folks, I haven't read Escoffier's previous post yet, but I want to say that this thread is in danger of devolving into "arguing about arguing," and that's not what we're here for. Let's keep this on a high level of discourse, please. I'm very busy right now, and I don't have a lot of time to be spending on things such as this (time = patience) :)

From this point forward, everyone ask themselves this *before* you post: Is your post written with an intention of "achieving a meeting of the minds," or simply to "drive home a point that you've already made?" If the latter, please *don't post*.

I'm afraid to say I'm going to have an itchy "delete finger" if I come back and see a bunch of arguing without any attempt for friends to reach accord - or, if things are so irreconciliable, then to substantiate your point *using never-before-written information*.

Thanks for your understanding,

Rocks]

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They don't serve cucumber kimchi!  It's not on the menu! You had the unfortunate experience of having a server who didn't understand the difference between pickled vegetables and kimchi, and tried too hard to please you.  Annoying? Yes.  A damning piece of evidence that Chang has somehow forgotten or forsaken his Korean heritage to please the pale whitebread eating masses?  Hardly.

I stand by my opinion (which is in line with how the restaurant describes itself) that Momofuku is not at all a "Pan-Asian" restaurant.  Reasonable people can disagree.  Eric Ziebold has tempura on his menu right now.  And sashimi.  And a duck dish with fermented black beans.  And another with tofu and yuzo kosho sauce.  Is Kinship a Pan-Asian restaurant?

As for your 2nd paragraph:  An Asian chef has no obligation to serve Asian food.  If you have that expectation of Chang, that is on you, not him.

I think this discussion has been enlightening far from the concern about the issue of "kimchi."

Aw, who wants to be reasonable?  :). I agree that we can disagree.  Regarding Eric Z., I somehow doubt that the vast majority of his menu is made up of Asian food (or derivatives) and that he plans on expanding to more Asian dishes to the detriment of his other dishes.  I would never go to Kinship with the expectation that I was going to make a night of eating sashimi and tonkatsu at his restaurant.  It's true that an Asian chef has no obligation to serve Asian food.

I agree that this has certainly been an entertaining couple of entries.  Amazing how easily conclusions can be leaped to over the misreading of a simple sentence.  All over something that none have any more interest than sitting down and eating and drinking.  Some restaurants I like you probably don't, some you like I don't.  Not sure that makes me reasonable, but I'm certainly not going to get upset that you don't like the same food or restaurants or wallpaper I don't.  Life is a bit larger than that.  (but it sure is fun to play devils advocate and watch the fuming ;) )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had an afternoon meeting in the area a couple days ago when it was freezing and windy so I knew a bowl of ramen would be in order.  It was very rich and very filling, but I don't know enough about ramen to judge it against Toki or Diakaya. 
 
Don - I'd love you to do a ramen review showdown somewhere along the line!
 
But the real reason I'm posting is to report on the still outrageous drink prices. 
 
They only had one Chardonnay on the menu an it was $19 a glass.   I found it online for $17 per bottle in France, and $20 per bottle in the US.
Their lone Rose' was $14 a glass ($17 a bottle online)
 
You can look at the rest of the insanity here:

post-3390-0-15316600-1460061034_thumb.jp

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i kept forgetting momofuku will do takeout. it turns out they will do takeout of most of their menu, lunch and dinner, just not any of the ramens. (no broth dishes for takeout.) the spicy chilled noodles made for a delicious late lunch at my desk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/7/2016 at 4:33 PM, Bart said:

 But the real reason I'm posting is to report on the still outrageous drink prices. 

They only had one Chardonnay on the menu an it was $19 a glass.   I found it online for $17 per bottle in France, and $20 per bottle in the US.

Their lone Rose' was $14 a glass ($17 a bottle online)

You can look at the rest of the insanity here:

attachicon.gifmomofuku drink menu.jpg

On 4/7/2016 at 8:59 PM, JoshNE said:

I don't know enough about the wines on the list, but the beers & cocktails seem to be at the (inflated) DC standard.

The wine markups are extortionate even by DC standards.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went there a couple of weeks ago and had a great lunch. The vegetarian hozon ramen was delicious, as good as the version in NYC, but happily less salty (though don't get me wrong, i was still very thirsty after). I also really enjoyed the shitake buns, i was surprised by how flavor and umami packed they were, particularly with a little bit of the ssam sauce. i could quibble about the value of only getting 2 (essentially a large appetizer size) for the price, but if i did it would mostly be because i selfishly want them to be cheaper so i can eat a lot more of them without feeling guilty. what we really liked was how the edges of each mushroom slice were crispy, yet the rest of the slice was tender. we were trying to figure out how they do this--does anyone know? we thought they might deep fry the mushrooms whole, then slice and season them. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...