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Need Advice Regarding a Unit-to-Unit Condominium Flood


LauraB

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We have been living in a condo that we own in Springfield, VA since last summer. On March 24th our condo was flooded due to the person living upstairs (a tenant, not the owner) having turned on her kitchen faucet, plugged the sink, and left the unit to go to work.  The damage to our unit was extensive.  We had completely renovated it last May, so less than a year.  Our relatively new hardwood floors are ruined and have to be completely replaced. Other work includes replacing the dry wall, the ceiling, it goes on and on.  We will need to move out next Monday and the repairs will begin on Tuesday. 

 

We filed a claim with the culprit’s insurance company, Allstate.  They have issued a check to cover the repairs and our initial hotel stay immediately after the flood – the disaster recovery team installed enormous fans and dehumidifiers that rendered the unit uninhabitable for 5 days post-flood. 

 

We are now faced with at minimum, an 18-day hotel stay and the removal of all of our belongings to temporary storage for the duration.  We are getting push-back from Allstate.  They claim that we can remain here for the duration of the repairs.  I don’t know how you can remain in a place where ALL of the hardwood floors need to be replaced.  This is a less than an 800-square foot condo.  I just don’t know where you push the furniture.  Not to mention how it would be living here while this work is done. 

 

In addition, this has disrupted our lives greatly.  I am currently spending all of my time packing up our belongings, only to unpack them in about a month.  We did not ask for this and yet the Allstate agent treats me like I am hassling him. 

 

I would greatly appreciate any advice you have to offer.  Even if Allstate finally does pay all of our expenses, which I greatly doubt, what about the great inconvenience we are suffering.  Is there any way to be compensated for that?

 

Thanks for any advice you have!

 

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I've done battle with insurance companies before. The claims agent's job is to wear you down until you back down: Don't.

You have *every right* to be fully compensated including maintaining a decent standard of living, and I very much suggest you see an attorney *ASAP* for a one-hour consultation - it might set you back a few hundred dollars, but it's worth it.

If it were me, I would call AllState, explain your intentions of moving into a reasonably priced (not lavish) hotel, and don't back down an inch. Make sure to mention "dealing in bad faith" when you call them, and repeat that phrase until it sinks in. I had a completely different situation with my insurance company, but I didn't budge for six months, and one day they just gave up and paid me every penny I was owed. I can't promise this will happen to you; only that they would be *delighted* not to have to pay $3,000 for you to stay in a hotel. 

If AllState is replacing your floors, I would let them handle your furniture and belongings; I wouldn't simply move them into storage hoping to be reimbursed, but that's just me. I would also emphasize how you're doing this in order to save *them* money, and that you're doing them a favor. There are certain times in life to be a bastard, and one of those times is now.

In another instance, I had a completely different situation with yet another insurance company, and didn't back down an inch. It took *a year*, but when they saw that I meant business, they caved in. I was 100% in the right and they *knew it* - they were trying to get me to settle for less than what I was owed, hoping I'd take it; I didn't, and thank *goodness* I didn't.

I'm going to go ahead and say "this is not legal advice" just in case anyone else is reading and runs into a similar situation, and that I am not an attorney, but if it were me? I'd be in a hotel, and demanding that AllState not only pays for your hotel, but also reasonable expenses for meals, etc. Don't take advantage of the situation, keep all receipts, and remember that you might not get a penny. This is one friend giving advice to another, and I may well be completely, totally wrong.

I'm also assuming that replacing the floor will involve nonstop noise and dust, etc. You have a right to your present lifestyle. I'm not a litigious person, and don't particularly care for attorneys, but if it were me, I'd put it on my credit card, and slug it out with AllState. I'd also be spending a few hours doing some internet research for similar cases. There may well be legal precedent that AllState *doesn't* owe you for staying in a hotel, in which case I'd ask them to show you that precedent, but I'd be researching it at the same time myself - you're absolutely not the first person this has happened to.

AllState has dealt with cases like this in the past, and they probably know what a judge would say; this is brand new territory to you. My guess is that they care about their bottom line more than they care about your well-being.

Laura, I've got to tell you that what I'm saying involves some risk, but if it were me, I'd be taking that risk. You have no idea what scumbags insurance companies are when it comes to cases involving lots of money. Just based on what you said, this doesn't even sound like it's a close call. The next time you talk with the agent, make sure you take the tone of voice that *he* is harassing *you* - not vice-versa - and you're damned sick and tired of it.

Why don't you call *your* insurance company and ask them if this would fall under "additional living expenses?" It might get you nowhere, but the investment is nothing. If someone hit your car, you would call your insurance company and go through them - perhaps you can do that here as well: It's certainly worth asking.

Even though this isn't your fault, there are also weird rules about flooding that you should be aware of - I have no idea whether or not they come into play in this situation.

I strongly, strongly suggest you consult with an attorney - there could be five figures at stake here. You're in a bad situation, and I'm sorry this has happened to you.

Finally, I would not harbor a grudge against your neighbor - I assure you she didn't mean to do this. It was an accident.

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Yes, I feel the need for an attorney, which is why I posted this.  Can you or anyone else recommend one? And, wow, it's funny you say it was an 'accident.'  This woman has never apologized to us.  The closest she came was to text me that "I'm as upset about the accident as you are."  

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2 hours ago, LauraB said:

Yes, I feel the need for an attorney, which is why I posted this.  Can you or anyone else recommend one? And, wow, it's funny you say it was an 'accident.'  This woman has never apologized to us.  The closest she came was to text me that "I'm as upset about the accident as you are."  

My guess is that she has an attorney who told her to say that, and no more than that. Either that, or her insurance company told her to say that, and no more than that. That's like me running over a child in a crosswalk, and saying to the parent, "I'm as upset about the accident as you are."

I take back what I said about not harboring a grudge. The very first thing I would do is apologize to you, profusely, and if someone told me not to, I'd tell them to go to hell.

Here's some more advice: the Fairfax Bar Association has an attorney referral service. You call them up, a representative answers, you give them a brief description of your problem, and they suggest 2 or 3 candidates with expertise in the areas that you need. You give them $50 over the phone on your credit card, wait on hold while they call the attorney, and they arrange for an initial consult (either 30 or 60 minutes, I can't remember, but it's long enough so you can clearly explain your case, and get some good initial advice). I've used this service twice (it's for-profit, and don't forget it's for-profit, even though it's technically "voluntary"), and even though I didn't engage either attorney, I felt that in both instances, they were very pleasant, extremely helpful, and I got some really good advice. You can decide at the end of the meeting whether or not to retain the attorney by giving them several thousand dollars, or you can tell them you'd like 24 hours to think about it. Of course, the real reason this exists is that attorneys with free hours are willing to risk an hour of their time for a very small amount of money in hopes of getting a client who will pay a retainer and engage their services, but that's the way our terrible society works, and is the best you can do. I recommend it in situations such as this, and I would call them tomorrow. I'll make you a deal: I've been putting off doing it for something myself ... if you do it, I'll do it. Deal?

The only way I *wouldn't* do this is if someone here recommends an attorney, but I suspect most people are scared to get involved for fear of <whatever>. Can you tell I don't live my life by that type of thinking? Incidentally, when it came to forming an estate, I followed the advice of someone on here, and found my estate and trusts attorney because of it - I paid plenty, but I got it done correctly. He's now a member here, *has me quoted on his website*, and is someone I consider to be a personal friend.

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31 minutes ago, Keithstg said:

Hi Laura, You might want to try reaching out to Art Konopka:

http://www.konopkalaw.com/

Art specializes in real estate law and was recommended to me previously by a friend (and fellow DR.com member) that I trust completely. I didn't end up using Art, instead using our family attorney, but wouldn't hesitate to call him in the future.

Thank you so much, Keith!  I'll definitely look into it.  I want to thank you, Don, and the others who have reached out to me via PM.  I really appreciate the support of this community.  Meanwhile, back to packing....

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I'd suggest getting an attorney who specializes in insurance claims.  There are firms and groups for whom that is their expertise.  I used to be friendly with several in that field but its been over a decade since I've last spoken with any of them, and the one I knew best ended up working on behalf of an insurer.  Without checking he could be representing All-State.  I don't know.

From the firm's perspective its all about the money.  Get an attorney with experience in these matters and experience in beating down their claims in a way that works to your advantage.  I'll dig deep to see if I can come up with references

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On April 28, 2016 at 1:00 PM, DaveO said:

I'd suggest getting an attorney who specializes in insurance claims.  There are firms and groups for whom that is their expertise.  I used to be friendly with several in that field but its been over a decade since I've last spoken with any of them, and the one I knew best ended up working on behalf of an insurer.  Without checking he could be representing All-State.  I don't know.

From the firm's perspective its all about the money.  Get an attorney with experience in these matters and experience in beating down their claims in a way that works to your advantage.  I'll dig deep to see if I can come up with references

I'd appreciate whatever you come up with, Dave.  Thanks.

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oi.   Haven't gotten through to the one I was last in touch with.  In the interim, search on google for insurance attorneys, use Don's suggestion for a reference, but I'd specify attorney's who specialize in insurance.  There are attorney's on this board who might have suggestions.  Its been a long time.  Hopefully I'll get a hold of him.

Parenthetically, having worked in commercial real estate for decades, I'm a huge believer in legal specialization, hence the suggestion for an insurance specialist.  

 

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I am an attorney that specializes in insurance coverage disputes.  My practice is limited to professional lines insurance (D&O, E&O, etc.), so I have no real experience in homeowner's claims.  But the one thing I can reasonably advise* in any situation like this is to notify your own carrier immediately.  They have an interest in making you whole that the other carrier might not and should handle all of the interaction with your neighbor's insurer.

* I note (hopefully obviously) that this is not intended as legal advice, but is instead just a friendly tip.  Please feel free to PM me if you have questions, though any attorney's free advice is worth what you pay for it.

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28 minutes ago, RWBooneJr said:

I am an attorney that specializes in insurance coverage disputes.  My practice is limited to professional lines insurance (D&O, E&O, etc.), so I have no real experience in homeowner's claims.  But the one thing I can reasonably advise* in any situation like this is to notify your own carrier immediately.  They have an interest in making you whole that the other carrier might not and should handle all of the interaction with your neighbor's insurer.

* I note (hopefully obviously) that this is not intended as legal advice, but is instead just a friendly tip.  Please feel free to PM me if you have questions, though any attorney's free advice is worth what you pay for it.

I like Rich's advise also.  On legal/financial issues I'm a firm believer and have experience in bringing in expertise on the issue.  It appears I'll speak with my old friend this evening and will ask for a referral, but I'll also pose Rich's suggestion.   The above are also friendly tips, simply based on other experiences.

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I want to thank everyone who has offered advice here and via PM.  Rich's advice to file with our own insurance company was particularly salient, and we followed that advice, filing with our insurance company 2 days ago.  The response we have received from them is vastly superior to what we had previously received from the culprit's company, Allstate.  In 20 minutes I got more information from the adjuster for our insurance company than I've received in 5 weeks from Allstate.  He has already been to the property to assess the damages. It remains to be seen what will happen here.  Thanks to your recommendations, and those of MrB's clients, we do have attorneys waiting in the wings, if need be.  

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Update: I said previously that Allstate had issued a check to cover the damages and our initial hotel stay.  Well, that check never arrived.  So, we got our own insurance company involved, and lo and behold, a new check in a higher amount was issued and over-nighted to us.  Meanwhile, I learned that Allstate had wasted precious time trying to strong arm our contractor into agreeing that we could live in the condo while the work was done.  That was done without our knowledge until our contractor informed us about it.  Our insurance company put a stop to that. Bottom line: involve your own insurance company from the outset.  Thank you, Rich, for that advice!

We have been living in a Marriott Residence Inn since May 2nd and will be here til May 22nd.  We informed Allstate from the outset of our need to stay in a hotel.  Still, it will be interesting to see how Allstate responds to our request for reimbursement of our hotel and meal expenses.  

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On 5/14/2016 at 9:30 PM, LauraB said:

Update: I said previously that Allstate had issued a check to cover the damages and our initial hotel stay.  Well, that check never arrived.  So, we got our own insurance company involved, and lo and behold, a new check in a higher amount was issued and over-nighted to us.  Meanwhile, I learned that Allstate had wasted precious time trying to strong arm our contractor into agreeing that we could live in the condo while the work was done.  That was done without our knowledge until our contractor informed us about it.  Our insurance company put a stop to that. Bottom line: involve your own insurance company from the outset.  Thank you, Rich, for that advice!

We have been living in a Marriott Residence Inn since May 2nd and will be here til May 22nd.  We informed Allstate from the outset of our need to stay in a hotel.  Still, it will be interesting to see how Allstate responds to our request for reimbursement of our hotel and meal expenses.  

From the perspective of a reader simply great advice.  Thanks Rich

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Just to close this out, I want to let everyone know that Allstate paid our hotel cost of nearly $5000 really quickly.  Our food cost, however, not so much.  We're still waiting, although we've been informed that the 'check is in the mail.'  I copied our guy at our insurance company on every email and I'm convinced that without him, we wouldn't have received nearly the attention that we finally did from Allstate.  Lesson learned. 

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On 7/16/2016 at 5:48 PM, LauraB said:

Just to close this out, I want to let everyone know that Allstate paid our hotel cost of nearly $5000 really quickly.  Our food cost, however, not so much.  We're still waiting, although we've been informed that the 'check is in the mail.'  I copied our guy at our insurance company on every email and I'm convinced that without him, we wouldn't have received nearly the attention that we finally did from Allstate.  Lesson learned. 

I'm just now seeing this - I'm *so* glad this worked out for you, Laura: $5,000 is several cases of good wine!

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