Jump to content
DonRocks

Brexit - The UK's Potential Withdrawal from the European Union

Recommended Posts

I got this email from my MIL last night. I wonder how many Americans don't even know what Brexit is.

---

Coucou Don,
Nous avons traduit ce texte au cours. Intéressant non?

---

And the text was this: brexit.pdf

It's shocking just how little coverage Brexit is getting in the Western media, and *why*? This is *big news*, and we're hardly reading anything about it - are we that ethnocentric of a country where we can't hear news even about *Europe*? Goodness knows if something similar was happening in Asia, Africa, South America, Central America, or Australia.

"Brexit Would Hit House Prices, Says Osborne" on bbc.com

"U.S., Japan FX Row Overshadows G7 Meeting; Leaders Eye Brexit Threat" by Leika Kihara and Stanley White on reuters.com

"G7 United Against Brexit, But Can Only Hope For An 'In' Vote" by Stanley White and Megumi Lim on reuters.com

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I got this email from my MIL last night. I wonder how many Americans don't even know what Brexit is.

---

Coucou Don,
Nous avons traduit ce texte au cours. Intéressant non?

---

And the text was this: brexit.pdf

It's shocking just how little coverage Brexit is getting in the Western media, and *why*? This is *big news*, and we're hardly reading anything about it - are we that ethnocentric of a country where we can't hear news even about *Europe*? Goodness knows if something similar was happening in Asia, Africa, South America, Central America, or Australia.

"Brexit Would Hit House Prices, Says Osborne" on bbc.com

"U.S., Japan FX Row Overshadows G7 Meeting; Leaders Eye Brexit Threat" by Leika Kihara and Stanley White on reuters.com

"G7 United Against Brexit, But Can Only Hope For An 'In' Vote" by Stanley White and Megumi Lim on reuters.com

While it's probably true that near-useless news media like CNN have not paid much attention, serious media have.  Here is an article about brexit  from just yesterday's NYT, one of many that have run recently.  At the end there are links to several previous articles over the last few months (non-NYT subscribers can read several for free).  I don't regularly follow the Washington Post, but a quick Google search of "washington post brexit" yielded more than two pages of recent WashPo articles on the subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, johnb said:

While it's probably true that near-useless news media like CNN have not paid much attention, serious media have.  Here is an article about brexit  from just yesterday's NYT, one of many that have run recently.  At the end there are links to several previous articles over the last few months (non-NYT subscribers can read several for free).  I don't regularly follow the Washington Post, but a quick Google search of "washington post brexit" yielded more than two pages of recent WashPo articles on the subject.

I have no doubt that major papers are covering this story (how could they not?), but it seems like most really, truly important stories (like this one) are things that I run across randomly in my day-to-day web work, without specifically going to a news source; I don't believe I've stumbled across it one single time (and I'm on the web a *lot*).

Am I wrong in assuming this isn't getting the coverage that it perhaps should? I may well be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You said the 'Western media' has not covered this.  I assume you mean the American media, because the BBC has covered this extensively, as you might imagine.  Also, NPR has been all over this story.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I have no doubt that major papers are covering this story (how could they not?), but it seems like most really, truly important stories (like this one) are things that I run across randomly in my day-to-day web work, without specifically going to a news source; I don't believe I've stumbled across it one single time (and I'm on the web a *lot*).

Am I wrong in assuming this isn't getting the coverage that it perhaps should? I may well be.

Here is a recent Onion comment pertinent to this thread.  Even though it didn't literally happen, I judge it closer to truth than to satire. "Facebook Clarifies Site Not Intended To Be Users’ Primary Information Source."

I admit I'm a news junkie. I spend a good deal of time reading the NYT (I subscribe to the internet edition), The Economist (ditto), watching political commentary on TV that is based on what I believe to be facts not emotions and opinions, not to mention forays into the Daily Beast, HuffPost, New Yorker Daily, and others.  This is JMHO, but  I believe that if one seeks to be informed then one needs to take deliberate steps to be informed, not rely on just happening into it.  The internet is predominantly a wasteland of puffery, flim-flam, ephemera, and non-information;* digging out the worthwhile nuggets doesn't just happen but takes planning and effort, and a skeptical mindset.

* Present website excluded of course

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2016 at 7:35 AM, johnb said:

Here is a recent Onion comment pertinent to this thread.  Even though it didn't literally happen, I judge it closer to truth than to satire. "Facebook Clarifies Site Not Intended To Be Users’ Primary Information Source."

I admit I'm a news junkie. I spend a good deal of time reading the NYT (I subscribe to the internet edition), The Economist (ditto), watching political commentary on TV that is based on what I believe to be facts not emotions and opinions, not to mention forays into the Daily Beast, HuffPost, New Yorker Daily, and others.  This is JMHO, but  I believe that if one seeks to be informed then one needs to take deliberate steps to be informed, not rely on just happening into it.  The internet is predominantly a wasteland of puffery, flim-flam, ephemera, and non-information;* digging out the worthwhile nuggets doesn't just happen but takes planning and effort, and a skeptical mindset.

* Present website excluded of course

I agree.  The web and news are two different things entirely though the web carries news sites.  One must visit them to get the news.  I'm also a news junkie, lifelong.  I vary subscriptions.

Several years ago I was comparing business stories in the WSJ and NYT.  Remarkably different coverage, even on stories w/out an obvious political slant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to the topic:  Brexit.  Today The Washington Post has a front page story on Brexit.  Front page on web and in print.  I must admit to only having scanned the coverage over time. This one is in the hands of the Brits.  Clearly though it has a connection to the current American political environment as Brexit, as I understand it, is being fueled by opposition to immigration.  But the situation in Britain is way different than that in the US; British immigration opportunities from natives of other EU nations is unlimited as I understand it.  Its an issue I've heard about for years, as natives of the wealthier Western European nation members of the EU bemoan immigration from less affluent Eastern European members.  

Immigration:  Its an issue that has caused natives of everywhere to scream and moan and complain and do far worse over centuries of time in countless nations.  I hope the Brits make a smart move on the vote.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DaveO said:

Immigration:  Its an issue that has caused natives of everywhere to scream and moan and complain and do far worse over centuries of time in countless nations.  I hope the Brits make a smart move on the vote.  

The Brits were smart by not adopting the Euro, which gave them control over their own monetary policy.  However, by joining the EU, they gave up immigration control.  I'm curious, what is the smart move on the vote?  If we have a vote on whether to have open borders with Mexico, I'd think a super-majority would say no. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ericandblueboy said:

The Brits were smart by not adopting the Euro, which gave them control over their own monetary policy.  However, by joining the EU, they gave up immigration control.  I'm curious, what is the smart move on the vote?  If we have a vote on whether to have open borders with Mexico, I'd think a super-majority would say no. 

ha.  so I put out that I hope the Brits make a "smart move"....you asked "what is the smart move"  ....and frankly I don't know.. :P   I figured "smart move" is "open to interpretation".   I haven't been impacted by immigration.  I don't have qualms about it.  Clearly though it has multiple impacts and in any nation it causes winners and losers...hence the Trump movement and Brexit and those that oppose both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen coverage in newspapers and on WTOP on my commutes, but not particularly heavy coverage by say the regular evening news, which I don't think particularly qualifies as news anymore.  I think the world economy overall is really shaky right now, so it makes sense that many countries are experiencing a revival of nationalist tendencies, exhibited by many in our own country (Who are those people that make fun of people with history degrees and what they will do with them?  Forecast political and economic shifts should be the answer.).  I am sure immigration, the financial status of many of the countries the EU has given vast loans to, the slipping of the pound against various world currencies has them really considering what is best for them.  It's hard to say what would be best for them, leaving takes some control out of their hands for shaping economic policy of places that owe them money like Spain, France and Germany.  But they are still the lender and would benefit in other ways. They get subsidies and other benefits back from the EU, but at what cost?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2016 at 10:35 AM, johnb said:

Here is a recent Onion comment pertinent to this thread.  Even though it didn't literally happen, I judge it closer to truth than to satire. "Facebook Clarifies Site Not Intended To Be Users’ Primary Information Source."

I admit I'm a news junkie. I spend a good deal of time reading the NYT (I subscribe to the internet edition), The Economist (ditto), watching political commentary on TV that is based on what I believe to be facts not emotions and opinions, not to mention forays into the Daily Beast, HuffPost, New Yorker Daily, and others.  This is JMHO, but  I believe that if one seeks to be informed then one needs to take deliberate steps to be informed, not rely on just happening into it.  The internet is predominantly a wasteland of puffery, flim-flam, ephemera, and non-information;* digging out the worthwhile nuggets doesn't just happen but takes planning and effort, and a skeptical mindset.

* Present website excluded of course

The other day I realized I was following the news via facebook.  I thought of this post.  Its not something I do. In fact never.  During the day though I realized I was doing exactly that which I purposefully avoid.  Two posts by two different people describing somewhat obscure pieces of news in general, but compelling to me had crossed my view.  I further researched them.  In that vein the further research is something I'd often do on any piece of info that seems obscure. 

In any case I'd go back to johnb's suggestion and practice (one I subscribe to).  If one wants to follow the news one should read way beyond Facebook.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've been following the Brexit issue in the English language EU media since the get go. I'm firmly in the camp that believes the Brits are crazy to be going down this road. I'm originally from across the pond.
One of the best pieces I've come across is this transcript of a lecture given 12/13/18 at the University of Liverpool by Sir Ivan Rogers UK ambassador to the EU from 2013 to Jan 2017, when he resigned after his personal views that the Brits were screwing up big time, were leaked.
The lecture sets out 9 lessons to be learned from the Brexit negotiations. It's a long lead and could be heavy going for those unfamiliar. Suggest you first skim the 9 headlines before deciding if you want to dig further.
Bloomberg has a daily Brexit bulletin email.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Count Bobulescu said:
I've been following the Brexit issue in the English language EU media since the get go. I'm firmly in the camp that believes the Brits are crazy to be going down this road. I'm originally from across the pond.
One of the best pieces I've come across is this transcript of a lecture given 12/13/18 at the University of Liverpool by Sir Ivan Rogers UK ambassador to the EU from 2013 to Jan 2017, when he resigned after his personal views that the Brits were screwing up big time, were leaked.
The lecture sets out 9 lessons to be learned from the Brexit negotiations. It's a long lead and could be heavy going for those unfamiliar. Suggest you first skim the 9 headlines before deciding if you want to dig further.
Bloomberg has a daily Brexit bulletin email.
 

There seems like something of a parallel between the Brits having voted for Brexit, and our having voted for, well, you know. 

"We didn't really just do that, did we?"

And now, they're stuck with a really bad situation. Question: Is there any way they can get out of this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DonRocks said:

There seems like something of a parallel between the Brits having voted for Brexit, and our having voted for, well, you know. 

"We didn't really just do that, did we?"

And now, they're stuck with a really bad situation. Question: Is there any way they can get out of this?

Yes, a lot of "leave" promises already broken. 

Theresa May, is slowly but surely being dragged kicking and screaming toward a 2nd vote, despite her protests. 
In Parliament, there's no majority for any of the various leave options, hard, soft, Canada+, Norway ++, no deal etc. but there is, and always has been, a majority in Parliament to remain, so its increasingly likely it will be kicked back to the public for another vote, on the basis that parliament is impotent to carry out the first will of the people. That carries the risk of embittering the leavers, because remainers would likely win a 2nd vote, though not by a huge margin.
 
100 days out, Brussels released today a "No Deal" contingency plan. Some are suggesting that this will prevent British Airways, (because its parent is EU based), from flying internally in the UK, London to Edinburgh etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Count Bobulescu said:

100 days out, Brussels released today a "No Deal" contingency plan. Some are suggesting that this will prevent British Airways, (because its parent is EU based), from flying internally in the UK, London to Edinburgh etc.

EU No Deal Contingency Plan

Might one say that Britain has snookered itself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How Brexit will kill the British sandwich <insert British food jokes here>.  But seriously, the infographic in the story illustrates how much the British economy counts on "just in time" deliveries from continental Europe.  Pretty much the only sandwich food item that the U.K. is currently self-sufficient is the bread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Tweaked said:

How Brexit will kill the British sandwich <insert British food jokes here>.  But seriously, the infographic in the story illustrates how much the British economy counts on "just in time" deliveries from continental Europe.  Pretty much the only sandwich food item that the U.K. is currently self-sufficient is the bread.

And even with that just in time, by one definition the UK currently ranks as the 7th most food secure country. Suspect that rating will drop if they crash out with no deal.

OTOH, Manhattan typically has little more than a 24 supply of food. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Count B,

Could you please explain, in 100-200 words, what the hell happened, what the ramifications are, and what is preventing GB from getting out of the predicament they're in? I don't fully understand this myself, and I suspect that if I don't, then others don't either - and we'd really appreciate a substantive, layman's explanation of the situation at hand - treat us as if we're intelligent, but ignorant about this particular thing.

Cheers,
Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Could you please explain, in 100-200 words, what the hell happened, what the ramifications are, and what is preventing GB from getting out of the predicament they're in? I don't fully understand this myself, and I suspect that if I don't, then others don't either - and we'd really appreciate a substantive, layman's explanation of the situation at hand - treat us as if we're intelligent, but ignorant about this particular thing.

The referendum was not required, it was an optional attempt to relieve "Tea Party" type leave pressure.

The confusion has arisen because the leave campaigners induced some people to vote on the basis of some promises they have been unable to fulfil, and immediately disowned within hours of the vote, such as diverting money that currently goes to the EU, to pay for UK health services. People were asked simply to vote yes or no on leave. 52% voted to leave.

The EU had a protocol in place for a country to leave, but it had never been tested. When it came time to negotiate terms for the post Brexit relationship it became apparent that people had various reasons for voting leave, dislike of EU courts and institutions, control of immigration, particularly from Eastern EU countries, claims of welfare cheats etc. Most UK immigration comes from Commonwealth countries, not EU countries, so leaving the EU won't do a lot to solve the immigration issue. 

Inability to accommodate these disparate interests while at the same time trying to hold on to as many EU benefits as possible for business etc ( free movement of goods, but not people) has bedeviled the process. There have been as many resignations from the May admin as firings from the unmentionable's

There's no majority in parliament for anything the EU will agree to, other than remain, which the voters rejected. Think of it like Texans voting to secede, then unable to agree among themselves to accept any future relationship offers the US will agree to.

Brexit has been described as the greatest act of unforced national self harm in history.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, DonRocks said:

What would it take for them to say, "We take it back!" and just stop it from happening?

Hell, we have precedent right here in Washington, DC.

Would that it were so simple. John Bull is a proud and headstrong man.

If the government said that, they'd open themselves up to charges of undermining democracy, ignoring the will of the people etc. 

If/when a 2nd vote is announced, the leavers will want to know when they can have a 3rd vote, and if not, why not, and where will it end etc.

The counter argument will be that it's more serious than a regular 4-5 year election, because it's a once in a generation event, that people didn't fully understand first time. Young people who didn't vote are bitter at their parents and grandparents for messing with their future.

They are now talking about stockpiling food and medicine, and putting troops on standby over the holidays.

I think 77 is worse. It's more about countermanding than ignoring the will of the voters. I just read an interesting brief by legal and economic professors in the upcoming SCOTUS Tennessee case about how vested interests so often prevail on politicians to do what's in their specific interests rather than the public's. I think there are similarities in the 77 case. I haven't followed the issue since the election.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×