The 2015-2016 NBA Finals: The Golden State Warriors vs. The Cleveland Cavaliers

[DonRocks]

"It's Showtime: Why The Cavs and Warriors in the NBA Finals is the Best Thing for Basketball" by Anthony J. Fredella on straighthoops.com

[DaveO]

Not going to bother making predictions, haven't bothered reading analyses on this upcoming series; but following the GS/Oklahoma series, plus last years finals, plus last years finals without Irving or Love, plus a more mature GS team, plus a red hot Klay Thompson besides Curry...I'm looking forward to these finals.  Let the games begin!!!!

[DonRocks]

The cameras barely showed this, but with about 11:30 left in the 2nd quarter, LeBron James and Draymond Green were on the floor, wrestling for the ball, and when it was all over, James extended a hand to help up Green. If what I saw was correct (I'm in a sports bar watching Game 1 and it's *loud*), that was a classy gesture by James.

[DonRocks]

At the end of the second quarter, Andre Iguodala nailed a 3, then Kyrie Irving came right back up the court and bricked a 3. The Warriors are so good at shooting 3's that it almost feels like they're cheating. I wonder if they spent last off-season practicing inside of Fort Knox.

[DonRocks]

Did anyone notice, with 3:45 left in the 3rd quarter, after the whistle was blown, Curry threw up an after-the-fact shot, and James jumped up and swatted it? That could be a subtle indication of the feelings brewing inside.

[DonRocks]

5 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

Did anyone notice, with 3:45 left in the 3rd quarter, after the whistle was blown, Curry threw up an after-the-fact shot, and James jumped up and swatted it? That could be a subtle indication of the feelings brewing inside.

And sure enough, not one minute later, there's very nearly a fight thanks to Iguodala's overreaction to a foul.

I'm getting tired of the commentators saying, "Let them play basketball," when people are traveling, double-dribbling, and flopping like toothpicks.

[DaveO]

ooooh.  first game.  Shiver me timbers!!!!  A real surprise.  Curry and Thompson very ineffective over most of the game.  Warrior subs carried the game.  Warriors divvied up the shots, played effective defense...overcame the Cavs defense on the splash brothers and in the final quarter the reserves put the game away.  Completely unexpected.  

Pat Riley has said that its a game about making shots.  Lotta truth to that.  In the 2 games Oklahoma blew out the Warriors Golden State missed a lot of shots, Oklahoma scored quick baskets off of transition movement and unsettled defenses and flustered GS.  In this game GS subs made their shots!!!!!...and took a lot of them.

And Iguadala continues to play very tough defense.  Last series he made Durant struggle to score.  This game he and others made it tougher on Lebron.  hmmmm....maybe the time travel gods have very limited abilities to take the teams of the 80's and 90's and match them against Golden State.  If so...just move Iguadala to the 80's and 90's and see how he'd cover Larry Bird, Barkley, Malone, and other great forwards.  Andre Iguadala was the key guy for GS in last years finals, was key against Oklahoma and just put up another big game.  This guy adds a lot to Golden State.

One game down.  A full series to go.  Way too early to call in my book though.

 

[farmer john]

note to Cav's players: MOVE WITHOUT THE BALL!!!

[DaveO]

37 minutes ago, farmer john said:

note to Cav's players: MOVE WITHOUT THE BALL!!!

I think you nailed it.  I was only semi aware of that.  Is that why JR Smith didn't get shots?  I was pretty sleepy while watching and he is a guy they should always try and unleash...but they didn't.  

[danielahn31]

I think the Warriors win in 6.

Kyrie looked great but Cleveland needs to play better on offense. Squandered an incredible opportunity with Steph and Klay having off shooting nights. 

Less hero ball more passing/easy buckets. Unfortunately Lebron runs the show and when things grind down, we see a lot of people standing watching Lebron. I'm excited that Kevin Love and Kyrie are both healthy for this series but GS is playing great and every championship team needs to go through that moment of "oh shit, we could lose". GS had there's last series, Cleveland won't lose 3 straight if GS slips up again

[Steve R.]

On June 3, 2016 at 1:57 PM, DaveO said:

I think you nailed it.  I was only semi aware of that.  Is that why JR Smith didn't get shots?  I was pretty sleepy while watching and he is a guy they should always try and unleash...but they didn't.  

Note to youse guys -- Shumpert and JR Smith were on the Knicks.  Who moves without the ball when Carmelo has it?  The one that I don't get is Irving -- is GS really doing such a good defensive job on him or is he just having a bad time of it so far?  I'm rooting for GS, but I want Cleveland to play better than Game 2 (obviously).

[DonRocks]

38 minutes ago, Steve R. said:

Note to youse guys -- Shumpert and JR Smith were on the Knicks.  Who moves without the ball when Carmelo has it?  The one that I don't get is Irving -- is GS really doing such a good defensive job on him or is he just having a bad time of it so far?  I'm rooting for GS, but I want Cleveland to play better than Game 2 (obviously).

I don't want to make any predictions, but I'm completely sold on the greatness of Golden State - not just Curry, but Golden State as a team and an organization. Not only are they great, but they caught the entire league off-guard (no pun intended) - they have their big men stepping out and hitting nothing but net beyond the 3-point arc, so if Curry, and even Thompson, are having off days, someone else can step up. When they start hitting two, three, four 3-pointers in a row ... a 15-point lead over them can shrink amazingly quickly.

This is Golden State's time - it will pass, eventually - but this is their time, and good for them because they deserve it. People in San Francisco and Oakland *love* them - rarely have I seen so much joy in a city over a sports team (it happens, of course (think Pittsburgh, Detroit, etc.), but rarely have *I* seen it).

I read somewhere that even if the Warriors got Kevin Durant, they wouldn't necessarily be any better than they are right now - there's only one ball (do they *really* need someone else who can score?), and why would you want to mess with the chemistry of a team that went 73-9 and is about to win their second straight NBA title? Their chemistry and make-up is about as good as any team I've ever seen, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they could beat an all-star team composed of the rest of the players in the league.

Somebody, somewhere, in a back office, came up with the idea of "small ball" a few years ago, and just as Disney was secretly buying up tracts of land in Haymarket to build a theme park, the Warriors started building their team around this concept without telling anybody. Unlike Disney, however, which was unceremoniously ridden out of town, the only thing the rest of the NBA can do is sit there and take it.

[Steve R.]

Yep, this is a team… a real team.  At least 8 players that can carry the game forward when needed.  That being said, its usually a bad idea to mess with the chemistry of a real team but, in this case, I don't think that adding Durant would be a problem -- it would make them stronger.  Picture him on the court right now against Cleveland as the "other" forward w/Green.  Picture him on the court with Green, Thompson, Curry & whomever else.  Substitute Livingston for Thompson or Curry.  Do you foresee an "only one ball" problem in any of these or other scenarios… I don't.  GS doesn't have a 2nd starting forward with his talent & they sure as hell don't have a center that he couldn't replace for significant minutes in a game.  So… with him in GS's lineup, just how do you defend them?

Almost any other addition of a top player to GS's roster might be worrisome but Durant would be just fine.  However, I don't see it happening.

[DonRocks]

20 minutes ago, Steve R. said:

So… with him in GS's lineup, just how do you defend them?

How do you defend them *now*?

Durant is a 25+ points-per-game man - do you think he'd be willing to let that slide down to 15, along with 8 rebounds and 8 assists? If so, then he could fit right in; if not, he'll be taking shots away from other players. Or do you think that with Durant, the Warriors could average 10 points per game more than they currently do? He is, after all, a *great* long-range shooter, and also great at driving on his defender (which would fit in perfectly with the Warriors' spread offense, since the opposing team wouldn't have time to collapse on him). Anyway, this is all just guesswork on my part, but one thing isn't a guess: Durant will not come cheap.

I might be wrong about this, but it seems like Durant squares up against his opponent (in the classic triple-threat stance), as opposed to employing the catch-and-shoot technique, which he'd need to be able to execute on the Warriors - do you think he could do this? These guys on the Warriors are shooting while flying sideways sometimes, or so it seems.

I would *love* to be a fly on the wall in their long-term strategy meetings. My guess is, as both a former NBA Champion and the all-time 3-point shooting percentage leader in NBA history, Steve Kerr is *the perfect coach* to act as liaison between management and the players, and I suspect he doesn't need to do much mediating.

[DaveO]

2 hours ago, Steve R. said:

Note to youse guys -- Shumpert and JR Smith were on the Knicks.  Who moves without the ball when Carmelo has it?  The one that I don't get is Irving -- is GS really doing such a good defensive job on him or is he just having a bad time of it so far?  I'm rooting for GS, but I want Cleveland to play better than Game 2 (obviously).

Ooooohhhh.   I like that above line.  "Hey we played for the Knicks.  What is this moving without the ball stuff".   What is this getting passes stuff???  "

[DaveO]

3 hours ago, Steve R. said:

  The one that I don't get is Irving -- is GS really doing such a good defensive job on him or is he just having a bad time of it so far?  I'm rooting for GS, but I want Cleveland to play better than Game 2 (obviously).

Have you watched Irving in other games when he is at his peak?  He has an amazing "handle".  He can literally fake you out of your jock within a tiny space.  Its not that he is a super athletic freak like Iverson or Westbrook today or some others...he just has great control and fakes.    GS is holding him down so far.  He could explode at home.  We'll see.  GS is a great team...way beyond others.  They are very "team" on offense and defense.  Lots of fun to watch.    I sort of want both teams to do well...and I hope Cleveland picks up its game at home and makes a series of it.  IMHO either team winning would be cool.

[DaveO]

Hoo boy.  What a reversal game 3 was.  Now its a series.(at least till game 4 and 5)

[DonRocks]

2 hours ago, DaveO said:

Hoo boy.  What a reversal game 3 was.  Now its a series.(at least till game 4 and 5)

On 6/5/2016 at 4:57 PM, DaveO said:

Have you watched Irving in other games when he is at his peak?  He has an amazing "handle".  He can literally fake you out of your jock within a tiny space.  Its not that he is a super athletic freak like Iverson or Westbrook today or some others...he just has great control and fakes.    

It seems to me that Westbrook has tremendous forward explosion, being able to cut through the eye-of-the-needle between two defenders blocking him from the basket; Irving, on the other hand, has that incredibly quick "Shake 'n' Bake" move that frees him up, not unlike that little "darting move" by Curry, except that Curry's is a quick front-back, and Irving is micro-moving side-to-side like a squirrel when he does it.

Plus, how can anyone not love Uncle Drew? 

Or Betty Lou?

[DaveO]

At his peak Irving is a rare offensive one on one talent in today's game.  Yeah, I'd guess his best moves are a type of shake and bake....more subtle than shake and bake artists from the past, but devastatingly effective.  This year he was definitely inconsistent, I suppose it takes a very long time to recover from a profound leg/knee injury.  

Always amazes me; these tournament series with great stars on both teams.  One game the stars from team A completely dominate and the stars from team B are outclassed and look like amateurs.  The next game team B's stars play like the second coming of the Messiah.  I find it totally unpredictable year after year after year.  I think that at that skill level some of it has to do with having one's back against the wall, and the similarly talented stars from the team that is behind play with an intensified energy.

[DonRocks]

1 hour ago, DaveO said:

At his peak Irving is a rare offensive one on one talent in today's game.  Yeah, I'd guess his best moves are a type of shake and bake....more subtle than shake and bake artists from the past, but devastatingly effective.  This year he was definitely inconsistent, I suppose it takes a very long time to recover from a profound leg/knee injury.  

Always amazes me; these tournament series with great stars on both teams.  One game the stars from team A completely dominate and the stars from team B are outclassed and look like amateurs.  The next game team B's stars play like the second coming of the Messiah.  I find it totally unpredictable year after year after year.  I think that at that skill level some of it has to do with having one's back against the wall, and the similarly talented stars from the team that is behind play with an intensified energy.

Sometimes, you *don't* recover from injuries - and for a young, professional athlete, that must be one of the most devastating things in the world (cf: RGIII (*)).

This year is exceptional, and I believe has set a record for most 25+ point victories in the playoffs: if I've compiled this list and counted correctly, it's 19 games out of 82 played thus far - over 23% of the games.

Cavaliers beat Raptors by 38
Heat beat Hornets by 33
Warriors beat Cavaliers by 33
Warriors beat Rockets by 33
Heat beat Hornets by 32
Spurs beat Grizzlies by 32
Spurs beats Thunder by 32
Cavaliers beat Warriors by 30
Cavaliers beat Raptors by 29
Thunder beat Mavericks by 29
Thunder beat Warriors by 28
Hawks beat Celtics by 27
Raptors beat Heat by 27
Warriors beat Rockets by 27
Warriors beat Thunder by 27
Cavaliers beat Raptors by 26
Spurs beat Grizzlies by 26
Warriors beat Rockets by 26
Cavaliers beat Hawks by 25

(*) - Should be a separate topic, but has anyone ever heard this "athlete must take responsibility and be honest" mantra being bandied about the media before RGIII got hurt? Not only did they work him to death, like Boxer in Animal Farm, but now it's *Griffin's fault* for not telling them he was hurt! When you're hobbling so badly you can barely walk, and you're about to take a snap and have five 300-pound trains coming at you trying to run you over, the situation should be a little obvious, I would think. 

[DaveO]

1 hour ago, DonRocks said:

Sometimes, you *don't* recover from injuries - and for a young, professional athlete, that must be one of the most devastating things in the world (cf: RGIII (*)).

This year is exceptional, and I believe has set a record for most 25+ point victories in the playoffs: if I've compiled this list and counted correctly, it's 19 games out of 82 played thus far - over 23% of the games.

Cavaliers beat Raptors by 38
Heat beat Hornets by 33
Warriors beat Cavaliers by 33
Warriors beat Rockets by 33
Heat beat Hornets by 32
Spurs beat Grizzlies by 32
Spurs beats Thunder by 32
Cavaliers beat Warriors by 30
Cavaliers beat Raptors by 29
Thunder beat Mavericks by 29
Thunder beat Warriors by 28
Hawks beat Celtics by 27
Raptors beat Heat by 27
Warriors beat Rockets by 27
Warriors beat Thunder by 27
Cavaliers beat Raptors by 26
Spurs beat Grizzlies by 26
Warriors beat Rockets by 26
Cavaliers beat Hawks by 25

(*) - Should be a separate topic, but has anyone ever heard this "athlete must take responsibility and be honest" mantra being bandied about the media before RGIII got hurt? Not only did they work him to death, like Boxer in Animal Farm, but now it's *Griffin's fault* for not telling them he was hurt! When you're hobbling so badly you can barely walk, and you're about to take a snap and have five 300-pound trains coming at you trying to run you over, the situation should be a little obvious, I would think. 

This writer and article have noted the same about the blowout scores this year. I think the revolving blowout phenomena first hit me in the 80's with Laker/Celtic championships.  How can two teams, so remarkably talented and more or less evenly matched have such astonishing blowouts in almost consecutive games with the teams reversing from conquering dominant heroes to vanquished also rans so quickly?   Lots of explanations over the years, but nobody has ever figured it out to keep it from recurring.   

[DonRocks]

Game 5

Kyrie Irving just popped a 3 with plenty of time remaining on the shot clock, when (in my opinion) the Cavs were up enough to start working the clock; instead, his 3 put the Cavs up by 13, and was something of a dagger: I can say with a fair amount of confidence right now (with about 5 minutes remaining) that Cleveland will win this game.

When you're hot, you're hot.

At this point, James has 40 points, 16 rebounds, and 7 assists - this is the first time in NBA-finals history that two players on the same team have scored 40 points in the same game.

[DonRocks]

Ayesha, do your hub a favor: stay off Twitter (unless hub is behind the tweets).

[DaveO]

Fell asleep before the 2nd half of game 5.  Missed how Cleveland took control and put the game away, along with very high shooting volumes and percentages for the 2 Cleveland stars let alone worse offense for the Warriors.  Speaks to how valuable Draymond Green is.  Preferring great team play over individual stars makes me more oriented toward a Golden State championship.  Of course, Cleveland is due a championship of some kind in a major sport.   Let the games continue!!!!!!

[Steve R.]

So, anyone think that was a legit suspension?

[DonRocks]

58 minutes ago, Steve R. said:

So, anyone think that was a legit suspension?

I don't think that was a legitimate flagrant foul - all I saw was him swinging and missing after being stepped over. Was there something more than that which I missed? Is there video anywhere? You can swing, or kick, as hard as you possibly can at someone, and if you *miss*, then there's no foul at all, flagrant or otherwise, regardless of intent (unless, of course, the official calls a technical), so I'm assuming there must be more.

And I'm liking Draymond Green less-and-less as a person as I'm finding out more-and-more about him in these playoffs. I can pretty much say the same for the Warriors as a team: They've lost their humility, so it seems, and that's what made them so likable.

I didn't know that being "stepped over" was such an insult in the NBA, but apparently, it's a total dis. Speaking of which:

 

[farmer john]

20 minutes ago, Steve R. said:

So, anyone think that was a legit suspension?

I don't think it was baseless- sort of a monthly achievement award for Draymond. He should have been suspended against OKC in which case the Warriors would be playing golf right now instead of basketball.

[Steve R.]

I like the "monthly achievement award" concept but the suspension was absurd.  Charles Barkley said something about it being a moral imperative to kick someone in the nuts if he steps over you -- gotta keep giving him credit for being clear about the unwritten rules of the game.  LeBron and everyone else on both teams is playing hardball, as well they should.  The refs and the NBA front office fully understand the game and I don't think for a moment that this was objective.  After all, the NFL didn't even consider suspending Brady for the Superbowl and they knew that they had sustainable charges.  Think that the difference is a single game format vs the middle of a best of seven with lots of additional revenue in the balance?  I'm soooo cynical.

As for the GSWs being likable -- well, I don't think they are either.  But I can't imagine that any of them could do what they do without a smugness & arrogance about themselves.    

[DonRocks]

29 minutes ago, Steve R. said:

Think that the difference is a single game format vs the middle of a best of seven with lots of additional revenue in the balance?  I'm soooo cynical.

I am so damned naive that I didn't even consider this.

[DaveO]

8 hours ago, Steve R. said:

So, anyone think that was a legit suspension?

Nah.  I'm of the "cynical" school of thought you referenced above.  A 6 game series makes more $$ than a 5 game series and a 7 game series makes even more $$.  Now OTOH, I prefer GS's greater emphasis on team ball than the Cav's emphasis on two stars to date.  As a hedge, though, it would be nice to see Cleveland win a major championship.  

On a side note I've had fairly extensive conversations with a professional baseball ump and a professional basketball ref.  (professional = they trained, had to pass tests, were evaluated, and were paid.  Neither worked at the big league level. )    On a game basis they really watch things differently than I watch as a fan, or watch and endlessly rewatch, still as a fan.  Ref or ump.  never wanted to be one before those conversations, and even more emphatically never wanted to be one after those conversations.  

So I'm rooting for GS in game 6.  I hope Iguadala does great stuff, Green shows his value and at the end the splash brothers SPLASH their way to victory.  

 

[DonRocks]

In the first minute of Game 6, after a whistle, Curry casually launched a 3, and a Cavalier ran up to the basket, jumped up, and swatted the ball into the stands.

In the second minute, Curry and Thompson got into a shoving match.

Also in the second minute, the Warriors picked up their third team foul, and Kevin Love his second personal foul.

This is war.

[DonRocks]

On 6/14/2016 at 0:20 PM, DonRocks said:

Ayesha, do your hub a favor: stay off Twitter (unless hub is behind the tweets).

"Ayesha Curry Accuses NBA of Rigging Finals" on si.com

Curious: If this corrupt organization, which has singularly made your husband into a household name, is rigging the finals, is there any chance they rigged the regular season to get your husband's team 73 wins? Or, did they all-of-a-sudden decide to become corrupt just this week?

[DonRocks]

At the end of the first half of Game 7, it's becoming readily apparent that the Cavaliers' attempt to set Draymond Green up on a blind date with Tonya Harding last night failed.

Green is aggressive right up to the border of being dirty, and he's also *great*: At halftime, he has 22 points, is 5-for-5 from 3-point range, and has 6 rebounds - a magnificent performance. I'd be negligent if I didn't mention Kevin Love's 7 rebounds and LeBron James' 8.

Personal fouls could be a factor in the second half - Curry has 3 - and considering how much the Warriors are blowing out the Cavs outside the arc (10-21 vs. 1-14), I can't believe they're only up by 7 at halftime.

The Cavaliers may need to score 100 points to win this game, and in the first half, they've taken too many 3-pointers - if the Warriors win by dominating the 3-point arc, that would be a microcosm of the 2015-2016 season, and a well-deserved championship - they earned home-court advantage, and it's surely making a difference: Take note, MLB - your well-meaning rule isn't fair to anyone).

This is a great game so far; Golden State went on a tear to end the first half, so they'll be at a definite advantage as the 3rd quarter begins.

[Steve R.]

Wow.  LeBron was unbelievably unstoppable & clutch.  Irving made one hell of a last shot.  And the Warriors looked like they were forcing shots over great defense.  Great last game.

[DonRocks]

12 hours ago, Steve R. said:

Wow.  LeBron was unbelievably unstoppable & clutch.  Irving made one hell of a last shot.  And the Warriors looked like they were forcing shots over great defense.  Great last game.

How can anyone not be happy for the sheer joy that this town is feeling today? 

Forget all the journalistic BS about "Lue 'outsmarting' Kerr" - none of it's true, and it's a bunch of malarkey; the Cavaliers were in the snares of the Devil's claws, and somehow escaped from a historically great opponent with their life. In my opinion, there are no losers in this series, and I don't care what the record books say, and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

But how can anyone not be happy for the citizens of Cleveland right now?

When LeBron James is an old man, he will look back upon this game as the happiest non-family moment of his life, and 50 years from now, young Cleveland basketball fans in their 20's will be telling stories to their indifferent grandchildren about this incredible, God-like player named "LeBron James" who led the Cavaliers to the NBA Championship, bringing them back from being down 3-1, and giving the city its first major sports championship since this amazing running back named Jim Thorpe - or was it Jim Brown? - had rushing statistics like Babe Ruth, and led Cleveland's football team to the NFL Championship (believe it or not, the "Super Bowl" didn't exist back then), and believe-you-me, I've heard that football was a really *big deal* in Cleveland 100 years ago - I saw with my own eyes - I actually witnessed the old-timers with tears rolling down their faces, talking about this guy Thorpe, or Brown, the same way I'm telling you about LeBron James right now - you've got to believe me, it was like being in heaven. Oh! And there was this unbelievable player named Kyrie Irving ....

 

[DonRocks]

23 hours ago, DonRocks said:

How can anyone not be happy for the sheer joy that this town is feeling today? 

Forget all the journalistic BS about "Lue 'outsmarting' Kerr" - none of it's true, and it's a bunch of malarkey; the Cavaliers were in the snares of the Devil's claws, and somehow escaped from a historically great opponent with their life. In my opinion, there are no losers in this series, and I don't care what the record books say, and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

But how can anyone not be happy for the citizens of Cleveland right now?

When LeBron James is an old man, he will look back upon this game as the happiest non-family moment of his life, and 50 years from now, young Cleveland basketball fans in their 20's will be telling stories to their indifferent grandchildren about this incredible, God-like player named "LeBron James" who led the Cavaliers to the NBA Championship, bringing them back from being down 3-1, and giving the city its first major sports championship since this amazing running back named Jim Thorpe - or was it Jim Brown? - had rushing statistics like Babe Ruth, and led Cleveland's football team to the NFL Championship (believe it or not, the "Super Bowl" didn't exist back then), and believe-you-me, I've heard that football was a really *big deal* in Cleveland 100 years ago - I saw with my own eyes - I actually witnessed the old-timers with tears rolling down their faces, talking about this guy Thorpe, or Brown, the same way I'm telling you about LeBron James right now - you've got to believe me, it was like being in heaven. Oh! And there was this unbelievable player named Kyrie Irving ....

This gentleman had the exact same idea I did, except in reverse! His piece is leaps-and-bounds better, and well-worth a read:

"Titles and Tears" by Joe Posnanski on sportsworld.nbcsports.com

[DonRocks]

The Warriors are a classic example of a classic "engineering" truism: In a working system - whatever that system may be - adding, subtracting, or changing a component increases the likelihood of system failure. 

Adding Kevin Durant hurt them.

Who knew? It's analagous to AOL purchasing Time-Warner.

Adding Frank Robinson in 1966, however, *created* a working system, as he was the final necessary component.

[DaveO]

On 10/28/2019 at 5:52 PM, DonRocks said:

The Warriors are a classic example of a classic "engineering" truism: In a working system - whatever that system may be - adding, subtracting, or changing a component increases the likelihood of system failure. 

Adding Kevin Durant hurt them.

Who knew? It's analagous to AOL purchasing Time-Warner.

Adding Frank Robinson in 1966, however, *created* a working system, as he was the final necessary component.

I sort of doubt that.  Had Durant been healthy last season in the finals the Warriors probably would have won.  He is that great.  P.E.R.I.O.D.   He was playing with other great players.  A passel of them.  They were in the NBA finals.  That isn't hurting.  That puts them at the top two among thirty.

OTOH adding Durant did create other issues.  The Warriors had only so much money and over their run their reserves and secondary starters got worse.  And right now...with the start of a season wherein they didn't have Durant and didn't have Klay Thompson, and didn't have Iguadala, and didn't have Shawn Livingston, and meanwhile had this huge payroll that limited what they could pay for others....they were showing they weren't that good...to start.

And right now, Curry just broke a bone in his hand and he is out for several months.   Hoo boy.  They will stink.  They have limited scoring on a roster that is talent limited due to the big salaries that Curry, Thompson, Green, and Russell have. 

But going back...had Durant been playing with Curry and Green, even with Thompson getting hurt...I strongly suspect they would have won the NBA championship.  If Durant were playing now, and without Curry, I bet they would still be good.  When healthy Durant has been one of the handful of best players in the NBA.  That isn't an engineering problem.

[DonRocks]

32 minutes ago, DaveO said:

I sort of doubt that. 

There are four paragraphs, and four distinct topics - what do you mean by, "I sort of doubt 'that'?"

[DaveO]

I mean I doubt adding Kevin Durant hurt the Warriors.

They got into the Playoffs and won the West.

Durant played in only one game in the finals and all of 12 minutes in that game.   Had Durant played during that Finals series I am quite sure the Warriors would have won the championship.  Adding Durant to the Warriors, is, in my view, not the same as an "engineering system" as you defined it above. 

Its different.  He has been one of a handful of players in the NBA that makes an incredibly strong positive impact.  Its a handful of players.  He has certainly been one of them.

OTOH.  His huge salary, on top of other huge salaries on the Warriors certainly limited their ability to have depth and capable subs.  I believe over the history of the Warriors run to the championships their secondary and substitute players got worse.  They couldn't keep subs, they were priced out of that market. 

I suppose one could say their aggregate salaries "first benefitted them" and later in that period it hurt them. 

A different perspective:  Both the Warriors and Wizards were burdened with huge salaries oriented to just a few players.  On the Warriors they had a championship team.  On the Wizards they were mediocre at best.  The Wizards had nobody even close to as good as Durant.  He didn't hurt them--he helped them.  The aggregate weight of salaries has hurt them, but not Durant.

[DonRocks]

15 minutes ago, DaveO said:

I mean I doubt adding Kevin Durant hurt the Warriors.

I doubt it too.