The National Policy Institute Members Give "Sieg Heil" Salute in a Washington, DC Restaurant

[RWBooneJr]

Oops.

[DonRocks]

2 hours ago, RWBooneJr said:

Oops.

It's very important that the restaurant is not blamed (or even named) for this - from everything I've read, they had absolutely nothing to do with it.

These people have always been lurking in the shadows - I'm glad they're making their faces known instead of hiding in darkness: They're foolish enough to think that they have a workable platform; they do not.

Ironically, they'll be the ones losing their jobs and sponging off of the government when they cash their welfare checks.

The restaurant is donating $10,000 to the Anti-Defamation League because of this - kudos to them, but it's unfortunate that they felt obligated when they did nothing wrong.

[RWBooneJr]

20 hours ago, DonRocks said:

It's very important that the restaurant is not blamed (or even named) for this - from everything I've read, they had absolutely nothing to do with it. ... The restaurant is donating $10,000 to the Anti-Defamation League because of this - kudos to them, but it's unfortunate that they felt obligated when they did nothing wrong.

But no one would judge the restaurant harshly. Maggiano's Little Italy in Friendship Heights comes off very well in the article .  

The real story is that we now live in a country where it's suddenly possible - in the Nation's Capital, no less - to accidentally host a dinner for Nazis.  Also, being blatantly anti-immigrant in a restaurant - particularly a large chain restaurant - is so stupid, you kinda have to wonder how these people managed to live to adulthood.  Not to mention that the restaurant in question purports to celebrate a group of immigrants who, less than a century ago, were subjected to precisely the same anti-immigrant bigotry.

[DonRocks]

1 hour ago, RWBooneJr said:

But no one would judge the restaurant harshly. Maggiano's Little Italy in Friendship Heights comes off very well in the article .  

The real story is that we now live in a country where it's suddenly possible - in the Nation's Capital, no less - to accidentally host a dinner for Nazis.  Also, being blatantly anti-immigrant in a restaurant - particularly a large chain restaurant - is so stupid, you kinda have to wonder how these people managed to live to adulthood.  Not to mention that the restaurant in question purports to celebrate a group of immigrants who, less than a century ago, were subjected to precisely the same anti-immigrant bigotry.

You mean now, as opposed to two weeks ago, when those neo-Nazis didn't exist. 

Or, maybe they did exist and were in hiding. Personally, I'd rather know who and where they are.

[This is about as far as this website goes, politically. If people want to discuss individual *issues*, as opposed to "what this country is like now," whatever that means, it's perfectly fine to discuss things in the Current Events forum (and I mean that - I've purposely started threads there that are some of the most controversial I can think of to show that it can be done), but it's only to discuss the events themselves; it's not okay to make blanket political statements. Hell, I've honestly thought about starting a thread to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of Roe v. Wade because I *know* it can be discussed in a way that won't anger any reasonable person, regardless of their views about it (and I'm not talking about women's rights; I'm talking about the actual court case).

Conservative Republicans (admittedly, an oxymoron of late) are welcome here, just as Liberal Democrats are welcome here: with open arms. I have friends who are both, I care about them equally, and they're all good people (at least the ones I'm friends with are).

I'm not saying you crossed any lines; I'm just taking preventative measures to keep it from happening - this community is a refuge *from* partisan politics, or should be - if I ever fail in this regard, I ask that people write me privately and tell me where and when I fail. I'm not perfect.]

[RWBooneJr]

3 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

... Or, maybe they did exist and were in hiding. ...

Bingo.  Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum, it is going to suck to be in DC the third weekend in January.

[DonRocks]

1 hour ago, RWBooneJr said:

Bingo.  Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum, it is going to suck to be in DC the third weekend in January.

I was never a bad person, but my views are so much more evolved than they were thirty years ago that I can't even begin to tell you. And it's all because of two things: education, and exposure. 

Most people stop learning when they graduate; that's when I started, and I've kept it going at a lion's pace for over thirty years. The first book I ever read - that I didn't have to read for school (when I nearly always cheated by reading the CliffsNotes) - was "The Old Man and the Sea," after I'd finished my first year of graduate school: That's a book that's assigned to children in Middle School. I was gifted in math, so never had to work at anything in college; when I was 22, I had a B.S. in Accounting, an M.S. in Computer Science, and virtually zero meaningful education.

I accepted a job offer at the Charlotte, NC office of Arthur Andersen & Co. (the company that became defunct due to the Enron scam). In the coffee room, there was a "People Board," with pictures of everyone in the office. In our Consulting Division, there were 51 white males, and 1 white female - It didn't take me long to see how that discriminatory, back-stabbing company operated, and I left after one year - despite George Shaheen, who personally hired me the day of my first interview, urging me to stay, essentially telling me that I wouldn't make it without more experience. In 1985, I moved back to the DC area, and formed my own company: I stayed small, quality-conscious, and refused to be a slave to money or greed - that was over 30 years ago.

I first left the U.S. (with the exception of having seen Canadian and Mexican border towns) when I was 27 years old, and exposure to new cultures changed me forever. I vowed to learn another language, so I enrolled at Montgomery College - French and Italian were filled up, so I signed up for Russian - that Europe trip was the beginning of my real-world exposure, and it made me a much better person.

Other events, mostly tragic events, accelerated my growth, and by the time I was in my 40s, I had wisdom that most people don't even have at the end of their lives.

A few days ago, I was sitting on an airplane next to a young, black-American gentleman, and we struck up a conversation after I bought him a drink (I woke him up, needing to use the restroom, and felt bad about it). He was only 22, and was from "the poorest region in the poorest state in the country" - the Mississippi Delta. After awhile, he told me that Mississippi is either "black, or white," and that California, to him, is like another planet. He asked me why things were like they were, and I told him that people are afraid of the unknown, which is the only logical explanation for racism (of course this is a polite way of saying that too many people in this world are both stupid and ignorant).

I'm able to see the current situation, and realize that things aren't all that bad - at least not yet. And it's not impossible that many good things will result from this election, perhaps indirectly and unintentionally. I'm just as concerned about foreign policy, human rights, and economic issues as anyone else, but the internet is more powerful than any American politician, and has changed everything - our checks and balances are now being performed by the general public. A generation ago, this "Sieg Heil" salute wouldn't even have been noticed, much less reported on; now, the participants in this stupid incident are at risk of having their lives ruined, and that's exactly as it should be.

[Bart]

1 hour ago, DonRocks said:

You mean now, as opposed to two weeks ago, when those neo-Nazis didn't exist. 

Or, maybe they did exist and were in hiding.

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic, facetious, or honest, but if you paid any attention* to the presidential campaign for the past 18 months you'd know this kind of thing was alive and well and emboldened.  They always existed and they weren't in hiding, but only lately have them come out into the light 

* I'm not talking about the networks, cable news and the newspapers.  You wouldn't have found it there, just as you barely see it there now.  I don't even know if this story made the national news

 

[Al Dente]

16 hours ago, Bart said:

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic, facetious, or honest, but if you paid any attention* to the presidential campaign for the past 18 months you'd know this kind of thing was alive and well and emboldened.  They always existed and they weren't in hiding, but only lately have them come out into the light 

Before the campaign really heated up I thought the KKK had largely gone the way of the dinosaur. Seems I was wrong-- really fucking wrong.

[DonRocks]

39 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

Before the campaign really heated up I thought the KKK had largely gone the way of the dinosaur. Seems I was wrong-- really fucking wrong.

People in the Deep South didn't end segregation because they wanted to; they ended it because they had to.

You should re-read this.

[DaveO]

On 11/21/2016 at 8:02 PM, DonRocks said:

It's very important that the restaurant is not blamed (or even named) for this - from everything I've read, they had absolutely nothing to do with it.

One would think, overall Maggiano's would not be blamed. But I disagree on several levels that they should be named.  In fact they made a donation to the Anti-Defamation Leage and it was confirmed  (nowadays one has to confirm if donations are actually made).  Amazingly though there was a bomb threat in front of that Maggiano's following the event.  It proved to be a fake threat.

I think its great they made the donation.  That is a statement to the Neo Nazi's.   Ha ha.  spend your money here and we'll send it to groups like the ADL to fight your ugly ideas.  Bravo, restaurant.  Well done

22 hours ago, RWBooneJr said:

The real story is that we now live in a country where it's suddenly possible - in the Nation's Capital, no less - to accidentally host a dinner for Nazis.  Also, being blatantly anti-immigrant in a restaurant - particularly a large chain restaurant - is so stupid, you kinda have to wonder how these people managed to live to adulthood.  Not to mention that the restaurant in question purports to celebrate a group of immigrants who, less than a century ago, were subjected to precisely the same anti-immigrant bigotry.

The change is that in this past election these groups have come to feel like they can come out of hiding and go main stream.  That is dangerous.

22 hours ago, DonRocks said:

You mean now, as opposed to two weeks ago, when those neo-Nazis didn't exist. 

These groups have been around for decades.   So now yes, you can identify them publicly.    But they have been around for decades and decades.   This election has given them the opportunity to go mainstream.  Very dangerous in my opinion.

20 hours ago, Bart said:

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic, facetious, or honest, but if you paid any attention* to the presidential campaign for the past 18 months you'd know this kind of thing was alive and well and emboldened.  They always existed and they weren't in hiding, but only lately have them come out into the light 

* I'm not talking about the networks, cable news and the newspapers.  You wouldn't have found it there, just as you barely see it there now.  I don't even know if this story made the national news

I agree.  These groups came out of hiding and have been very visible during this entire election going back to the primaries.

4 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Before the campaign really heated up I thought the KKK had largely gone the way of the dinosaur. Seems I was wrong-- really fucking wrong.

yup.  Really fucking wrong.  Now they are parading around out in the open.

[DonRocks]

53 minutes ago, DaveO said:

Now they are parading around out in the open.

Only time will tell how this plays out - as of right now, I'd rather that they be parading around out in the open than having secret meetings in the dark of night. Think about ISIS as a parallel - we don't know who or where they are, and that's why they're so scary; if they were having meetings at Maggiano's, we'd be laughing at them.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that white supremacists are making a suicidal mistake by coming out of hiding. They think they have 50 million members; I think they're a tiny fringe group.

Don't forget that this country has a (half-)black President, and he didn't get into office by chance. Trump took Ohio by 8.5 percentage points - I'd bet big money that if LeBron James ran for Governor of Ohio, he'd win in a landslide.

[RWBooneJr]

3 hours ago, DonRocks said:

They think they have 50 million members; I think they're a tiny fringe group.

Their membership may be small, but they now believe they have over 60 million people who either sympathize or will acquiesce.  At a minimum, if you heard what Donald Trump said and voted for him anyway, you have indicated that you will not oppose the racist agenda he campaigned on.  And, as the crowds at Trump's rallys demonstrated, a large number of his supporters probably do support that agenda. So, these Nazis now believe they have a green light, which could very well be true.  The only way it wouldn't be is if the candidate all these people voted for turns out to be a liar.

[DonRocks]

54 minutes ago, RWBooneJr said:

Their membership may be small, but they now believe they have over 60 million people who either sympathize or will acquiesce.  At a minimum, if you heard what Donald Trump said and voted for him anyway, you have indicated that you will not oppose the racist agenda he campaigned on. And, as the crowds at Trump's rallys demonstrated, a large number of his supporters probably do support that agenda. So, these Nazis now believe they have a green light, which could very well be true.  The only way it wouldn't be is if the candidate all these people voted for turns out to be a liar.

Sorry, I'm just not smart enough to understand what you're saying, and I don't wish to discuss the Presidential election.

This was an example of a post that crossed the line regarding politics - I won't delete it, but will instead leave it up as an example of taking a narrow, well-defined issue, and expanding it into a partisan political argument that is outside the scope of this website. If you wish to vent, I suggest Facebook or Reddit as two possible venues that would support discussion such as this.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[RWBooneJr]

Nothing political per se, just actual, verifiable facts, which serve as the most likely explanation for why the Nazis have come out of their hole and why they feel emboldened:

(1) Donald Trump said many things most Americans consider racist and, in fact, that a Nazi might also say (there can be no real dispute for anyone that actually listened to him as a candidate);

(2) Trump made campaign promises founded on such remarks, like that many of the Mexican immigrants in this country are rapists and murderers and we're going to build a wall to keep them out (again, it is inarguably true that he said this and many other, similar things); and

(3) A lot of people voted for Trump anyway, which necessarily indicates that they either share these views or that their opposition to them is not strong enough to influence their vote (for whatever reason).

So, the Nazis now have a basis to believe that, unless Trump was lying about what he said, they have a real opportunity to advance their agenda.  The current evidence is:  (1) the President supports at least some of that agenda; and (2) enough of the electorate doesn't care to do anything about it.  

To bring this all back to my original point:  Welcome to the America where Nazi's now literally feel that they have a place at the (dinner) table.  You may think that is wrong, but the Nazis no longer do  -- and they probably won't be convinced otherwise in the next two months.  So I strongly suspect that you'll see quite a few of these people in DC the weekend of January 20th, and many others in close proximity that oppose them.  If so, it will probably suck big league/bigly to be in DC then.

[Steve R.]

6 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Only time will tell how this plays out - as of right now, I'd rather that they be parading around out in the open than having secret meetings in the dark of night. 

Although I appreciate the sentiment you're expressing, I don't agree.  I'd rather they feel it still necessary to hide, as their reading of the acceptability of their ideas -- whether they're correct or not -- may also lead to acts that they also feel would now be acceptable; acts that may cause greater pain than those done under cover of darkness & fear.  Secondly, when these ideas are out there, more impressionable folks may grab on to them than if they were less publicly visible.  Thirdly, although I know that durian exists & is even loved by some, I'd rather not see it on the table or have to smell it.

[DonRocks]

14 hours ago, RWBooneJr said:

Nothing political per se, just actual, verifiable facts

I stopped reading your post after this phrase, which is false. I just got a PM essentially begging me to delete all this crap, and the person is right. I won't delete it, but I'm not going to participate in it because I have nothing to teach you, and you have nothing to teach me. Going forward, please think twice before violating the *very few* posting restrictions we have.

The only reason I allowed it in the first place is so I wouldn't be accused of censorship (which, incidentally, I was). A no-win situation. Take your politics to Facebook or Reddit.