Central, 11th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue Downtown - Executive Chef Nick Johnson and Chef de Cuisine Sean Mulcahy

[giant shrimp]

Hell, I'd "prefer" to eat at Citronelle too, who wouldn't. I'd also "prefer" to dine at some of the other 4-star places like CityZen and Maestro. However, Citronelle a smaller restaurant, you have to book a table far in advance and the price level is not conducive to once-a-week visits. Central is a much larger establishment, you can get a table on short notice and the price level conducive to more frequent visits. To say that you "prefer" one over the other, in this circumstance, does not convey much useful information.

fair enough, dammit. how about: citronelle is doing a better job at being a four-star place than central is doing at being a bistro?

as for getting a table, you might have a better chance of standing by without a reservation at central because it is larger, but for dinner at least you can't just breeze into the place. checking open table, although both are crowded, i can get a table for two tomorrow at 7:30 at citronelle, but have to wait a couple of weeks before something pops up around that time (8:00) at central.

i don't see how you can walk into central without thinking about michel richard, and that does get you thinking about citronelle, whether it's fair to compare the two or not. actually, in my brief comments on a sampling of the food above i only made one comparison between the two, which was suggested by the server (faux pasta).

if someone came up to me on the street and asked if i knew where there was a good bistro, i would not send them to citronelle. however, assuming that they were interested strictly in the food, i could tell them that i have heard that the cheeseburger and some other things at central are really good and that this is a really hot restaurant so they may have to sit at the bar. or i could just as well recommend other bistro-ish places where i had better food. i would tell them that i only ate at central once and the food was okay, but to order carefully to avoid running up a big tab and too much food.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

if someone came up to me on the street and asked if i knew where there was a good bistro, i would not send them to citronelle. however, assuming that they were interested strictly in the food, i could tell them that i have heard that the cheeseburger and some other things at central are really good and that this is a really hot restaurant so they may have to sit at the bar. or i could just as well recommend other bistro-ish places where i had better food. i would tell them that i only ate at central once and the food was okay, but to order carefully to avoid running up a big tab and too much food.

now your're getting somewhere. this could use some elaboration. also, is it fair to compare central to those other "bistro-ish" places when you have only been there once? [edited to remove capital letters.]

[tastedc]

I went to Central tonight with a Foodie Friend and thoroughly enjoyed the meal. From DR I was keenly aware that there might be a service issue or possibly a wait for our Reservation - my friend came a few minutes before our reservation at 7 pm, they sat her at the bar where she had a Belgian Beer. I showed up a few minutes after 7 gave my name and they told me she was waiting at the bar. I grabbed her and went right back to the reservation stand and they immediately sat us - perfect! Table for 2 (it's kind of loud in their, but that is probably my only complaint!) and our server Renee came up to us immediately and went over the menu. Quick and efficient, no problems!

Meal:

I asked Renee for her favorites - I mean this is a Bistro, the server obviously would know what's good/popular/fresh or just tastes the best! She suggested hands-down the onion tart to start (delicious - very thin almost pizza like with sweet caramelized onions - very satisfying, simple and great!) the gougeres (hey, puffed cheese - not exciting, but alot of fun to eat, kind of like kiddie food!) and the Lobster Burger (phenomenal - a combination of really sweet lobster meat, some type of home-made mayo, tomatoes which were good for the season on a brioche and real crisp, hot salty french fries as a side - she brought over ketchup - I know, I know how American, but c'mon, either that or mayo!!) and the 72 hour short rib (pretty lean cut of meat, probably more so than I expected, very pot roasty, but very delicious beefy flavor and nice steak sauce which didn't take away from the meat, also a nice puree - it had little potato "crisps" in it). For Dessert, she said go with the Kit Kat with Vanilla Ice Cream (we Snickered about that - ha!!) and it tasted like a moussy Kit Kat. All-in-all, a very nice dining experience for about $150 before tip for 2 people with a bottle of wine - pricey for a regular bistro, but I felt this was a reasonable price, this is more artsey food than most bistros have.

Only 1 glitch, and frankly it made the evening more entertaining and enjoyable:

We ordered a Burgundy Renee suggested, the "Les Orchis" Domaine Henri Naudin-Ferrand Cotes du Beaunes 2000 - it was on the light side but did great with our dishes - perfect - but first and only glitch that I could tell - the Wine Steward came over to us and brought the wrong wine - a Gewurztraminer - which is white and in the long thin bottle - he seemed a bit confused when I told him it was the wrong wine - that was the only glitch, Renee handled it beautifully and I actually kidded her about it a few times - how a restaurant handles a minor error says loads about their service - her diligence was incredible - rarely seen in DC, thumbs up!!

Conclusion - I would eat their again, and I would ask for Renee - it's rare you get a server that was so memorable and attentive - Michel is great when he comes over, but Renee was really efficient and pleasant and seemed to really be on the ball!

[Poivrot Farci]

Bistro...bistro...a bistro...bistro-ish...I mean this is a bistro...

What differentiates this "bistro" from a conventional "restaurant"?

Typically, bistros conjure small convivial dining settings serving traditional, regional fare at a modest price. Do reservations for burgers fit into the bistro taxonomy?

What constitutes " bistro food"?

Is this dining category meant to lower guests' expectations or earn a handicap?

Does a chef/owner inherit "bistro" classification by virtue of birthplace and mother tongue, menu or atmosphere?

[giant shrimp]

What differentiates this "bistro" from a conventional "restaurant"?

Typically, bistros conjure small convivial dining settings serving traditional, regional fare at a modest price. Do reservations for burgers fit into the bistro taxonomy?

What constitutes " bistro food"?

Is this dining category meant to lower guests' expectations or earn a handicap?

Does a chef/owner inherit "bistro" classification by virtue of birthplace and mother tongue, menu or atmosphere?

bistro, in my opinion, is a pretty wide open category and there are plenty of places that are not french bistros per se in these parts whose food falls into the category. i haven't been there in too long, but i found a wide range of cooking in bistros in paris, including items (boudin blanc) you can order, for instance, at marcel's. i believe the classification in france indicates places where you don't have to sit up quite as straight, or pay quite as much for your meal, but the kitchen is free to do what it wants, although usually taking a simpler approach to the food. most of the ones i visited required reservations. these were the places to find the best tarte tatin you have ever eaten in your life (at a venerable place sarte frequented over by the pantheon; i would have to look it up but believe it's still there) or every piece of the pig in a pot. the best bistros take basic food and bat it out of the park. and then there are brasseries, lipp is one of them, and i remember it as an establishment where the distinction with a bistro looked blurred (they put canned tuna in your salade nicoise, and that is probably the best way to have it, though the premises seemed equally suited to beautiful people bopping around comparing their hairdos and swinging their designer bags.)

to me, a one-time visitor who intends not to stay that way for long, even though you don't have to dress up for it, central looks like a fancy restaurant. but as nadya points out further up, the view from the bar is apparently quite different from the main dining room. i only saw the bar area for a second, but running through i at least could imagine i was in blade runner territory, with a long string of patrons paying reverence to their drinks and food. someone you can trust just said that these are the best raw oysters in town. that's the sort of thing a bistro would have on its menu.

[TinDC]

Central tonite...YESSSSSS!

Still don't know what I am going to eat, though. Has anyone tried the shrimp burger? Just curious if it is worth ordering. If I can get my appetite up enough, I'll go for the cheeseburger.

[jparrott]

Shrimp burger is definitely worth ordering.

[eating out]

Central tonite...YESSSSSS!

Still don't know what I am going to eat, though. Has anyone tried the shrimp burger? Just curious if it is worth ordering. If I can get my appetite up enough, I'll go for the cheeseburger.

Highly recommend the filet mignon tartare - it was delicious - and filling. Also the giant prawns are tasty - and HUGE, as advertised.

[lackadaisi]

Shrimp burger is definitely worth ordering.

I agree completely.

[Hannah]

The tartare is most excellent - was in a carnivorous mood earlier in the week, so had tartare followed by hanger steak.

[DPop]

I had a great experience last Monday at the bar, it is a really nice space and had a very good crowd for a non-weekend night. The Maple Manhattan is a great take on what I think is usually a bad drink, the maple did a good job of taking away the overly strong taste of bourbon that you usually get.

The shrimp burger was excellent, the mousse that holds it together is barely evident and the sandwich had a nice, light taste to it. The fried chicken was quite honestly the best I've had, although I wasn't fortunate enough to have gotten it at RTC before it was taken off the menu. I couldn't get enough of the mustard sauce it came with. The smoked salmon appetizer was also very nice, the corn bread accompaniment was an interesting touch on the dish.

[mbalaver]

I don't know if this belongs here or in Shopping and Cooking, but Michel Richard was a guest on today's Washington Post food chat.

[Tujague]

Three stars from Tom Sietsema. Strained analogy of the week: "the haunch of meat is as routine as a Simon Cowell crack on 'American Idol.'"

[jm chen]

I am a huge Central booster and I only regret the three-star review because it means the place will get even more crowded, but I have a big issue with Tom here:

...at prices that have us pinching ourselves: Did I really just buy a Richard creation that rocked my world and that cost a single digit?

The answer to that question is almost definitely no. I can't think of anything on the menu that costs a single digit besides the gougeres, and the side dishes. Maybe a salad. But I fear that this will bring an influx of diners who expect to see the burger at $9, instead of $16, and get all huffy about things being "overpriced."

Sigh.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Kudos to Chef Michel Richard and his able staff: three stars after having been open for such a short period of time, most impressive.

With regard to this:

Hanger steak is pleasantly chewy and juicy, seasoned with not much more than sea salt and escorted by crisp golden french fries that are some of the best in town (frying them in canola oil and clarified butter lends the snack a nice nutty note); dressing up the dish are glistening greens and the only "ketchup" you'll need: mayonnaise.

Sietsema's experience was slightly different from mime. I had the hanger steak on Monday and instead of mayonnaise, I was served a boat of what appeared to be a pan reduction sauce. Not complaining because the frites soaked up the sauce very nicely; just pointing out that they change things slightly from time to time. The hanger steak was "Ray's" quality. The hanger steak preceeded by the frisee, poached egg and lardon salad will really fill you up.

And ha, adding clarified butter to the canola oil, that'll teach 'em what happens when banning trans fatty acids is on the table.

[bonaire]

Had my first meal at Central today. I would highly recommend the mussel chowder. It's a broth based soup that I believe our waitress said was mixed with some pureed mussels. Plenty of whole plump mussels and fresh leeks in the soup too. It's even better if you soak it up with the bread. Perfect for the weather!

The Washington Times stopped in to take pictures of Michel Richard. They took a ton of pictures of the space too.

Will definitely head back there soon!

[MelGold]

I only regret the three-star review because it means the place will get even more crowded

I'm glad I made my reservation for this weekend before the review was posted!

[ol_ironstomach]

The hanger steak preceeded by the frisse, poached egg and lardon salad will really fill you up.

I heartily second the frisée recommendation. Currently my favorite salad, just nudging out the bacon/egg/cheese at Eve. One of those, plus some gougères, plus a 209 martini, and life is grand...and you should have just enough room left to share le Kit Kat with your date.

Dinner at Central may lead to new sentences that sound naughty but aren't; to wit: "She started the evening by hoovering my gougères."

[jpschust]

Had my first meal at Central today. I would highly recommend the mussel chowder. It's a broth based soup that I believe our waitress said was mixed with some pureed mussels. Plenty of whole plump mussels and fresh leeks in the soup too. It's even better if you soak it up with the bread. Perfect for the weather!

The Washington Times stopped in to take pictures of Michel Richard. They took a ton of pictures of the space too.

Will definitely head back there soon!

We're there as well on Saturday

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Currently my favorite salad, just nudging out the bacon/egg/cheese at Eve.

While I agree that it is a close call, I favor slightly the romaine lettuce in the Eve version to the frisee at Central.

[Buckinghamilton]

We're there as well on Saturday

As are we! To celebrate my second year turning 30.

Anyone know if the fried chicken is still served with a mustard sauce?

[jpschust]

As are we! To celebrate my second year turning 30.

Anyone know if the fried chicken is still served with a mustard sauce?

OK- what time are folks going? We are there at 8:30- Would just love to say hi.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Anyone know if the fried chicken is still served with a mustard sauce?

It was as of a couple of weeks ago.

[Buckinghamilton]

OK- what time are folks going? We are there at 8:30- Would just love to say hi.

Our reservation is for 8, though I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we're still waiting for our table at the bar at 8:30. I'll PM you with our descriptions.

[Camille-Beau]

Anyone know if the fried chicken is still served with a mustard sauce?

It was as of a couple of weeks ago.

And it was still on the menu today as well. My first trip today (Beau is apparently a 'regular' now with the wine basically appearing as he walks in the door...) included the luscious lobster burger and some of Beau's hangar steak. The shared starter was the 'faux' gras with duck rillettes. Both are delicious with lots of flavor, the right amount of saltiness and perfect textures - smooth for the chicken liver and a bit more rustic for the rillettes. Love that extra layer of fat on top of the rillettes. We had to share the Kit Kat bar that's been raved about on this thread. It really is as awesome as everyone said -- gotta love that gianduja. Now if only I still worked in that neighborhood...

-Camille

[jpschust]

And it was still on the menu today as well. My first trip today (Beau is apparently a 'regular' now with the wine basically appearing as he walks in the door...) included the luscious lobster burger and some of Beau's hangar steak. The shared starter was the 'faux' gras with duck rillettes. Both are delicious with lots of flavor, the right amount of saltiness and perfect textures - smooth for the chicken liver and a bit more rustic for the rillettes. Love that extra layer of fat on top of the rillettes. We had to share the Kit Kat bar that's been raved about on this thread. It really is as awesome as everyone said -- gotta love that gianduja. Now if only I still worked in that neighborhood...

-Camille

Tomorrow I'm going to be trying this faux gras. I'm skeptical to say the least.

[mdt]

Tomorrow I'm going to be trying this faux gras. I'm skeptical to say the least.

And if you like it, you can make all you want as the recipe (simple) is in his cookbook.

[Nadya]

Tomorrow I'm going to be trying this faux gras. I'm skeptical to say the least.

Why? Don't be!

[jpschust]

Why? Don't be!

Because I'm all about the real deal.

[jm chen]

I actually like it better than foie gras, but the truth is, the two aren't really that similar.

[Camille-Beau]

I actually like it better than foie gras, but the truth is, the two aren't really that similar.

Yes, the faux gras tastes like chicken

[JLK]

I loved the frisee on my first visit, but when I returned a week ago, it was a sloppy mess. Two members of my party of four ordered it, both of us having really enjoyed it before. We were surprised when it was delivered, easily twice the size of the salad we'd been served previously. I looked at it and said to him "Cheesecake Factory proportions!!" We were not thrilled by this, but dug in with enthusiasm just the same.

In short, it was wet. Very wet. It arrived somewhat overdressed and when mixed with the poached egg, it became rather sodden. Still, we ate it, but I'm hopeful that we just ordered it on an off night.

[Mark Slater]

You should have said something.

[JLK]

<never mind>

[Mrs. B]

You should have said something.

If you found yourself in this circumstance, how would you have presented it to your (presumably very busy) server? And then how long of a wait would you be willing to sustain before the complaint became the tipping point that might have sent the meal into a death sprial. This sounds like an unlikely scenario at Citronelle, but at Central where things are paced differently, thing may be different.

And Mark I can I can see you saying a number of things under your breath. You are still my favorite Joplin playah eveh.

PS wet salad even with great lardon =

[hamburglerhelper]

I ate at Central a couple weeks ago. I am wondering if I am alone in thinking that this restaurant is overrated and overhyped... I definately didn't think it was terrible but I was definately underwhelmed with the things I got largely across the board. My lady and I started with the mussel bisque and gougeres. The bisque, I thought was excellent and the best thing I ate that night. The gougeres were bland and felt to me like something that, if offered at a restaurant, should be complimentery with the bread basket. Then we had the Faux gras and the fried oysters. I thought the two components of the faux gras dish (faux gras and rillette) were both very well done technically, and the rilette i felt was pretty good, but the faux gras, otherwise known as chicken liver pate, did not seem to have the depth and complexity of flavor I have enjoyed in other pates. The oysters were??? shaped somehow into coins and breaded and fryed in ?kataifi? with tartar sauce. They weren't particularly crispy which is something i very much look for in fried oysters. and the whole dish sort of seemed like trying to force the square peg through the round hole, so to speak. For entree we had a bacon cheeseburger and the hanger steak. The hanger steak was cooked perfectly but was underseasoned, and the sauce that came with it didn't seem to add much.. The burger (certainly the lowest point of the evening), came medium well even though I ordered medium rare, also the bun tasted like it was pushing its shelf life. I also think that a burger should be good without having to add other strange components like the crispy potato things and the tomato things. For dessert we had the kitkat which was pretty tasty.

Anyways again as I said at the beginning, all in all, it wasn't a really bad meal, but it really wasn't great and I am curious if anyone else out there feels the same way because, by reading this thread you might think it was something really special, which I believe it is not.

Post away DR'ers.

P.S. in an attempt to answer in advance any of these points you might be tempted to make...

No I didn't tell my server my burger was overcooked or any of my other complaints. Why? Because I went (for a first time)to eat there to see what it was like without interference, because I think I know enough about food to see good(or not) ideas through bad execution, and because I don't care for interrupting the flow of the meal.

I chose not to post until now because I generally enjoy reading dr.com much more than writing on it, but I'm perplexed by the mass wave of adoration, culminating in Seitsema's 3 star rating. I have also noticed that posters seem to get jumped on if they only say that they didn't really care for a restaurant, and don't detail the food that they ate and why it was underwhelming... So I did that.

I respect people's opinions which differ from mine, and in no way suggest that anybody not go try this or any restaurant for themselves and form their own opinions..

Hamburger Helper

[mdt]

I ate at Central a couple weeks ago. I am wondering if I am alone in thinking that this restaurant is overrated and overhyped... I definately didn't think it was terrible but I was definately underwhelmed with the things I got largely across the board. My lady and I started with the mussel bisque and gougeres. The bisque, I thought was excellent and the best thing I ate that night. The gougeres were bland and felt to me like something that, if offered at a restaurant, should be complimentery with the bread basket. Then we had the Faux gras and the fried oysters. I thought the two components of the faux gras dish (faux gras and rillette) were both very well done technically, and the rilette i felt was pretty good, but the faux gras, otherwise known as chicken liver pate, did not seem to have the depth and complexity of flavor I have enjoyed in other pates. The oysters were??? shaped somehow into coins and breaded and fryed in ?kataifi? with tartar sauce. They weren't particularly crispy which is something i very much look for in fried oysters. and the whole dish sort of seemed like trying to force the square peg through the round hole, so to speak. For entree we had a bacon cheeseburger and the hanger steak. The hanger steak was cooked perfectly but was underseasoned, and the sauce that came with it didn't seem to add much.. The burger (certainly the lowest point of the evening), came medium well even though I ordered medium rare, also the bun tasted like it was pushing its shelf life. I also think that a burger should be good without having to add other strange components like the crispy potato things and the tomato things. For dessert we had the kitkat which was pretty tasty.

Anyways again as I said at the beginning, all in all, it wasn't a really bad meal, but it really wasn't great and I am curious if anyone else out there feels the same way because, by reading this thread you might think it was something really special, which I believe it is not.

Post away DR'ers.

P.S. in an attempt to answer in advance any of these points you might be tempted to make...

No I didn't tell my server my burger was overcooked or any of my other complaints. Why? Because I went (for a first time)to eat there to see what it was like without interference, because I think I know enough about food to see good(or not) ideas through bad execution, and because I don't care for interrupting the flow of the meal.

I chose not to post until now because I generally enjoy reading dr.com much more than writing on it, but I'm perplexed by the mass wave of adoration, culminating in Seitsema's 3 star rating. I have also noticed that posters seem to get jumped on if they only say that they didn't really care for a restaurant, and don't detail the food that they ate and why it was underwhelming... So I did that.

I respect people's opinions which differ from mine, and in no way suggest that anybody not go try this or any restaurant for themselves and form their own opinions..

Hamburger Helper

Well I think you answered some of your own questions. There are a number of posts here that state that they have had positive experiences at Central, so yes people do really enjoy it.

In reading your review, which was fair and even handed, it seems like there were more positives in your dinner than negatives, but you had some items that you did not enjoy. You obviously have likes and dislikes are different than others and there is nothing wrong with that. I had the gougeres last night and they were light and full of flavor like the first time that I had them. Did you have them on an off night? Possibly, or maybe you just don't care for his version.

The only thing that gets me is why not send back food that is not properly cooked. If you don't enjoy eating a burger cooked MW then nobody is going to make one that way that will taste good to you. Mistakes happen in every kitchen and just about any place will be more than happy to correct the error. Please let restaurants know when something is not right so that they can correct it. If nothing else you are paying good, hard earned money for something and it should be served as you requested. Have folks had bad experiences where they are treated poorly at restaurants when they do this?

Keep posting.

[Mark Slater]

-->

QUOTE(Mrs. B @ Mar 24 2007, 02:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you found yourself in this circumstance, how would you have presented it to your (presumably very busy) server? And then how long of a wait would you be willing to sustain before the complaint became the tipping point that might have sent the meal into a death sprial. This sounds like an unlikely scenario at Citronelle, but at Central where things are paced differently, thing may be different.

And Mark I can I can see you saying a number of things under your breath. You are still my favorite Joplin playah eveh.

PS wet salad even with great lardon =

Mrs. B,

The thing about these kinds of posts that distresses me is that the restaurant in this case was not even given a chance to make things right.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Mrs. B,

The thing about these kinds of posts that distresses me is that the restaurant in this case was not even given a chance to make things right.

I think most asute readers of this board recognize that. Some feel estopped to complain in public about something when they forwent the opportunity to have things made right by mentioning a problem to the restaurant staff. Some, obviously, don't.

[MelGold]

The burger (certainly the lowest point of the evening), came medium well even though I ordered medium rare, also the bun tasted like it was pushing its shelf life. I also think that a burger should be good without having to add other strange components like the crispy potato things and the tomato things.

I ordered the burger last night and had no idea until reading your post that we had an option about the cooking temp. When I ordered, I was asked if I wanted bacon or cheese, which in hindsight might have been a mistake to pass on, but never was asked how I'd like the meat cooked. In hindsight, I'm not sure I'd order the burger again when there are certainly other items on the menu that looked tempting. As for the asparagus salad, the faux gras, the puffs (which were the highlight of the meal), and the kit kat bar...yum! The fact that I walked in to a group of friendly faces coupled with fantastic service made the evening all the better. I'm looking forward to returning.

[Mark Slater]

I ordered the burger last night and had no idea until reading your post that we had an option about the cooking temp. When I ordered, I was asked if I wanted bacon or cheese, which in hindsight might have been a mistake to pass on, but never was asked how I'd like the meat cooked. In hindsight, I'm not sure I'd order the burger again when there are certainly other items on the menu that looked tempting. As for the asparagus salad, the faux gras, the puffs (which were the highlight of the meal), and the kit kat bar...yum! The fact that I walked in to a group of friendly faces coupled with fantastic service made the evening all the better. I'm looking forward to returning.

Why not say how you like the burger cooked when you ordered?

[ol_ironstomach]

Why not say how you like the burger cooked when you ordered?

For the same reason one doesn't start a Kennedy Center visit by telling the conductor how you'd like them to adjust the tempo. Because of the possibility that Michel has found some unexpected way to amaze you.

If the design of the dish is meant to incorporate diner input, then why not ask for it? Anything else puts the diner into the realm of special requests...or worse, presumptuousness. IMHO.

[jpschust]

Last night we had a blast at Central.

We ended up ordering a ton of appetizers as our meal for the two of us and we ordered way too much:

Charcuterie tower for 2- this was the only lower point- but not even a low point. Just not very exciting. The proscuitto was good, though I've had better elsewhere in town (Dino comes to mind), the salumi was ok, the duck rillettes were fantastic though.

Filet Mignon Tartare- excellent- wonderfully seasoned, tasty, a huge serving too.

Mac & Cheese - perfectly rich, sharp, and cooked perfectly with a great crust on top.

Gougeres - excellent. Can't say enough about these- so perfect in every way

Burrata salad - wonderfully simple

Yummy- we had no room for dessert or cheese afterwards.

Great to meet some friendly faces as well

[Mark Slater]

For the same reason one doesn't start a Kennedy Center visit by telling the conductor how you'd like them to adjust the tempo. Because of the possibility that Michel has found some unexpected way to amaze you.

If the design of the dish is meant to incorporate diner input, then why not ask for it? Anything else puts the diner into the realm of special requests...or worse, presumptuousness. IMHO.

To paraphrase Sigmund Freud, sometimes a hamburger is just a hamburger.

[Waitman]

For the same reason one doesn't start a Kennedy Center visit by telling the conductor how you'd like them to adjust the tempo. Because of the possibility that Michel has found some unexpected way to amaze you.

If the design of the dish is meant to incorporate diner input, then why not ask for it? Anything else puts the diner into the realm of special requests...or worse, presumptuousness. IMHO.

Pish-posh. Even with a maestro as gifted as Cedric, a little input regarding the temperature of the burger (which kicks Palena's burger's ass, btw) is certainly allowed and even expected. It is, after all, still a hamburger.

ETA: Apparently Mark and I were posting the same thoughts at the same time. Apologies for the redundancies.

[ol_ironstomach]

Even with a maestro as gifted as Cedric, a little input regarding the temperature of the burger (which kicks Palena's burger's ass, btw) is certainly allowed and even expected.

Uncommunicated expectations are exactly why the average person has such a warped relationship with fine dining establishments. "I didn't know." How many of Sietsema's weekly write-in whiners simply need a minor beating with the clue stick? Preventing these little avoidable miscues is exactly what hospitality is about. Wouldn't a simple "and how would you like your burger cooked?" be preferable to dissatisfying that one-in-twenty diner, especially if you expect that most people will have an opinion anyway?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but Mark actually seems to be arguing that burgers are banal. I suggest that at some places, a hamburger is much more than "just a hamburger", and that Central should be such a place. Let's compare neighborhoods.

Places that don't ask: Five Guys, McD's, Wendys, Burger King etc.

Places that do ask: Urban, Hamburger Hamlet, Fuddruckers, and most people I know with a grill on their deck. Even Daniel Boulud asks, and arguably his shortrib/foie gras/truffle-stuffed creation is far less tolerant of overcooking.

And that's my long-winded aside on why diners should be asked how they want their burger done, if it's an option, at any restaurant. FWIW, I've found the service at Central to be excellent for a bistro, both in the dining room and at the bar. It really is a wonderful and delicious addition to the scene, not to mention a pretty darn good value.

[youngfood]

Uncommunicated expectations are exactly why the average person has such a warped relationship with fine dining establishments. "I didn't know." How many of Sietsema's weekly write-in whiners simply need a minor beating with the clue stick? Preventing these little avoidable miscues is exactly what hospitality is about. Wouldn't a simple "and how would you like your burger cooked?" be preferable to dissatisfying that one-in-twenty diner, especially if you expect that most people will have an opinion anyway?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but Mark actually seems to be arguing that burgers are banal. I suggest that at some places, a hamburger is much more than "just a hamburger", and that Central should be such a place. Let's compare neighborhoods.

Places that don't ask: Five Guys, McD's, Wendys, Burger King etc.

Places that do ask: Urban, Hamburger Hamlet, Fuddruckers, and most people I know with a grill on their deck. Even Daniel Boulud asks, and arguably his shortrib/foie gras/truffle-stuffed creation is far less tolerant of overcooking.

And that's my long-winded aside on why diners should be asked how they want their burger done, if it's an option, at any restaurant. FWIW, I've found the service at Central to be excellent for a bistro, both in the dining room and at the bar. It really is a wonderful and delicious addition to the scene, not to mention a pretty darn good value.

I didn't take that to be the argument, rather that in this instance the server neglected to ask how the diner wanted the burger done and that while that was a mistake it was one that the diner might have corrected themselves by requesting it be done a certain way. I don't always speak up when things don't go the way I would wish at restaurants, but like sending a burger back if it doesn't come as you like (or just accepting it for what it is when you don't care or expect better) this seems like a reasonable response to me. That being said, of course, Central should strive to ask how a diner likes his or her buger cooked and to provide the burger so cooked. I don't doubt for a second that it does.

[Waitman]

And that's my long-winded aside on why diners should be asked how they want their burger done, if it's an option, at any restaurant.

And why, if they're not asked, the patron should just say "I'd like that medium-well (or whatever) please." With a few exceptions -- whom I find frightfully obnoxious -- talented chefs have no problem making modest adjustments on your meal. And any waiter who gives attitude in response (and I do not for a millisecond suspect that anyone at Central would) should be told to lick your privates and tipped in small change.

As a former waiter, I suggest that this is what waiters like: patrons who, within reason, are firmly but politely in charge of their own meal (or graciously willing to put themselves in your hands). Whinging about how the hamburger is cooked rather than politely requesting it be cooked to your taste is pointless and silly,and arouses suspicion in the waiter mind. (Ferhat, feel free to weigh in on this, as you are a better waiter than I ever was.) If you're too intimidated to tell people what you want,you shouldn't complain when you don't get it.

[Miami Danny]

And why, if they're not asked, the patron should just say "I'd like that medium-well (or whatever) please." With a few exceptions -- whom I find frightfully obnoxious -- talented chefs have no problem making modest adjustments on your meal. And any waiter who gives attitude in response (and I do not for a millisecond suspect that anyone at Central would) should be told to lick your privates and tipped in small change.

As a former waiter, I suggest that this is what waiters like: patrons who, within reason, are firmly but politely in charge of their own meal (or graciously willing to put themselves in your hands). Whinging about how the hamburger is cooked rather than politely requesting it be cooked to your taste is pointless and silly,and arouses suspicion in the waiter mind. (Ferhat, feel free to weigh in on this, as you are a better waiter than I ever was.) If you're too intimidated to tell people what you want,you shouldn't complain when you don't get it.

I think what Mark was saying, is that the chef is not going to be insulted if you request your burger cooked as you like it, for godsakes. And, with all due respect, if the waiter forgets to ask you, just go ahead and tell him how you would like it cooked. Twice, if you have to. You'll both be a lot happier.

[mdt]

I think what Mark was saying, is that the chef is not going to be insulted if you request your burger cooked as you like it, for godsakes. And, with all due respect, if the waiter forgets to ask you, just go ahead and tell him how you would like it cooked. Twice, if you have to. You'll both be a lot happier.

Or you can order the shrimp or lobster burger and not have to worry about any of this.