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American Cheese


DonRocks

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1 hour ago, franch said:

around this time, a Kin Burger was dropped off at our table. when we explained we didn't order the burger, it was noted as compliments of the house. i'm not sure why or how that happened, but i am incredibly glad it did. we figured that the burger was the 'safe' choice for hotel guests or picky eaters at the table. it doesn't contain much of Chef Kwame's famed African or Caribbean influences -- it's beef, [American cheese], lettuce, onions, pickles, and mayo, with only the jerk-spiced bacon to remind the diner they're at Kith and Kin rather than Le Diplomate or Duke's Grocery. i used those two places as a comparison for a reason. this burger is absolutely fantastic. it may be a bit out of place on the menu here, but if i happened to frequent the Wharf a lot or lived nearby, i'd come for a burger night. 

:mellow:

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1 hour ago, Simul Parikh said:

Disagree, Don. American cheese complements a good burger because it doesn't compete with the meat. 

Getting fancy cheese on a burger is like listening to Beethoven's 9th, but having Avicii mix it.

agreed. i think Le Diplomate's does as well and believe it to be one of the best in the city. 

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2 hours ago, Simul Parikh said:

Disagree, Don. American cheese complements a good burger because it doesn't compete with the meat. 

Neither does a glass of water, or, for that matter, the absence of cheese.

Can you imagine American cheese in Saag Paneer?

Right. You just cringed.

Never, ever, cook with a wine you wouldn't drink.

Could that mayonnaise have been Miracle Whip? Nobody would know.

2 hours ago, Simul Parikh said:

Getting fancy cheese on a burger is like listening to Beethoven's 9th, but having Avicii mix it.

Getting fancy quality cheese (that would be mild Cheddar; not American) on a burger is like listening to Beethoven's 9th (Symphony) with a good vocal section.

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16 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Neither does a glass of water, or, for that matter, the absence of cheese.

Can you imagine American cheese in Saag Paneer?

Right. You just cringed.

Never, ever, cook with a wine you wouldn't drink.

Could that mayonnaise have been Miracle Whip? Nobody would know.

Getting fancy quality cheese (that would be mild Cheddar; not American) on a burger is like listening to Beethoven's 9th (Symphony) with a good vocal section.

what does Saag Paneer have to do with it. that's like saying "can you imagine steak in chicken tikka masala" as an indictment of steak.

American cheese has places -- grilled cheese, burgers, and that weird roast beef sandwich at the Tune Inn. mild cheddar doesn't melt near as well.

(miracle whip is the worst. people would know.)

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On 10/28/2017 at 11:49 AM, franch said:

what does Saag Paneer have to do with it. that's like saying "can you imagine steak in chicken tikka masala" as an indictment of steak.

American cheese has places -- grilled cheese, burgers, and that weird roast beef sandwich at the Tune Inn. mild cheddar doesn't melt near as well.

(miracle whip is the worst. people would know.)

So you're fine with American cheese, but you detest Miracle Whip. Okay, fair enough - we all have our points of tolerance.

"What is American Cheese, Anyway?" by J. Kenji López-Alt on seriouseats.com

In this article, the author's closing paragraph begins:

"And to all you cheese snobs out there ...."

If I were to write a detailed rebuttal, my closing paragraph would begin:

"And to all you cheese slobs out there ...."

But I'm not getting into this, because it has been discussed before, in various other formats (Cheez Whiz on cheesesteaks, for example) - if people want Cheez Whiz on their cheesesteaks, or an entire box of Old Bay poured on their steamed Blue Crabs, or a well-done steak (like dear old mom), God love 'em. You'll never see me eating Cheez Whiz, ketchup, mounds of Old Bay on delicate blue crab, or American cheese - those fall outside of *my* points of tolerance, and such is the world - no moral judgments are being made here.

And I write this as I'm drinking a Diet Dr. Pepper, so I'm not without sin. :)

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I love American cheese! I think it's one of those "all things have place" kind of food. I love stinky cheese as well but they don't really have anything to do with each other. I don't really like any other kinds of cheese on my burgers and white American melted over a fried turkey and egg sandwich is one of my all-time favorite comfort foods.

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On 10/28/2017 at 1:52 PM, DonRocks said:

So you're fine with American cheese, but you detest Miracle Whip. Okay, fair enough - we all have our points of tolerance.

"What is American Cheese, Anyway?" by J. Kenji López-Alt on seriouseats.com

In this article, the author's closing paragraph begins:

"And to all you cheese snobs out there ...."

If I were to write a detailed rebuttal, my closing paragraph would begin:

"And to all you cheese slobs out there ...."

But I'm not getting into this, because it has been discussed before, in various other formats (Cheez Whiz on cheesesteaks, for example) - if people want Cheez Whiz on their cheesesteaks, or an entire box of Old Bay poured on their steamed Blue Crabs, or a well-done steak (like dear old mom), God love 'em. You'll never see me eating Cheez Whiz, ketchup, mounds of Old Bay on delicate blue crab, or American cheese - those fall outside of *my* points of tolerance, and such is the world - no moral judgments are being made here.

And I write this as I'm drinking a Diet Dr. Pepper, so I'm not without sin. :)

you could have saved us argument time if you would have said upfront "I don't like proper cheesesteaks" tbh ;)

diet dr pepper is great tho

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On 10/27/2017 at 9:12 PM, DonRocks said:

Never, ever, cook with a wine you wouldn't drink.

Partially debunked!

It's a worthy discussion about processed foods. Budae-jjigae, "military stew" is made entirely out of processed foods. Do you think it would be better with cheddar substituted for the American cheese? With serrano jamon instead of Spam? With homemade baked beans instead of canned? Hand pulled noodles instead of Ramen from a bag? Would it be budae-jjigae anymore? I don't think anyone in Korea would say that it was. You want to eat Cheeseteak without Cheese-Whiz? It's something, but it ain't Philly Cheesesteak. 

Grilled cheeses has to have American cheese! Other cheeses don't melt properly. And throw a slice into a bowl of Kraft Dinner ... that's comfort food. 

We all like what we like. But when you sub in something that changes the essential nature of that product, it's no longer that product. I mean - "saag paneer" has paneer in the name. Paneer is an actual thing. If you put American cheese in it, it's not saag paneer any more. It's something completely different. (Btw, did you that many, many local restaurants substitute palak - spinach - for saag - mustard greens? That's annoying.)  

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6 hours ago, Simul Parikh said:

Partially debunked!

It's a worthy discussion about processed foods. Budae-jjigae, "military stew" is made entirely out of processed foods. Do you think it would be better with cheddar substituted for the American cheese? With serrano jamon instead of Spam? With homemade baked beans instead of canned? Hand pulled noodles instead of Ramen from a bag? Would it be budae-jjigae anymore? I don't think anyone in Korea would say that it was. You want to eat Cheeseteak without Cheese-Whiz? It's something, but it ain't Philly Cheesesteak. 

Grilled cheeses has to have American cheese! Other cheeses don't melt properly. And throw a slice into a bowl of Kraft Dinner ... that's comfort food. 

We all like what we like. But when you sub in something that changes the essential nature of that product, it's no longer that product. I mean - "saag paneer" has paneer in the name. Paneer is an actual thing. If you put American cheese in it, it's not saag paneer any more. It's something completely different. (Btw, did you that many, many local restaurants substitute palak - spinach - for saag - mustard greens? That's annoying.)  

On the discussion about original vs variations;  move it over to a cuban sandwich and I'll opt for Earl's variation; the Cuban Club.  It  is not a Cuban.  It uses the elements of a Cuban and switches out on various items (almost all of them).  It is a far better sandwich in my experience than virtually any Cuban or ANY Cuban, I've had.  Excellent ingredients.  Great mesh of tastes. 

Simply one person's perspective. 

On American Cheese.   Oh my.  At some point I had this perspective that better cheeseburgers could be cooked with better cheeses.  NOT SO.  I tried a variety.  American cheese melts perfectly on a grilled cheeseburger.  Easily the best choice.  I probably haven't made a grilled cheese sandwich in forever.  Can't comment.  Adding American cheese to a Kraft dinner.  Yeah, I've done that.  I use American cheese for variations of scrambled eggs and other items.  Actually other cheeses also work, but again, American cheese melts well.  When uninspired and wanting something quick and easy scrambled eggs, American cheese and whatever else is available often does the trick.

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6 hours ago, Simul Parikh said:

It's a worthy discussion about processed foods. Budae-jjigae, "military stew" is made entirely out of processed foods. Do you think it would be better with cheddar substituted for the American cheese? With serrano jamon instead of Spam? With homemade baked beans instead of canned? Hand pulled noodles instead of Ramen from a bag? Would it be budae-jjigae anymore? I don't think anyone in Korea would say that it was. You want to eat Cheeseteak without Cheese-Whiz? It's something, but it ain't Philly Cheesesteak. 

Grilled cheeses has to have American cheese! Other cheeses don't melt properly. And throw a slice into a bowl of Kraft Dinner ... that's comfort food. 

We all like what we like. But when you sub in something that changes the essential nature of that product, it's no longer that product. I mean - "saag paneer" has paneer in the name. Paneer is an actual thing. If you put American cheese in it, it's not saag paneer any more. It's something completely different. (Btw, did you that many, many local restaurants substitute palak - spinach - for saag - mustard greens? That's annoying.)  

I believe that cheese has no place whatsoever in Budae-jjigae - I see in the article, about halfway down, that it has become bastardized over the years, sometimes with American cheese, but there's *no doubt* to me that this dish is better without *any* cheese in it. How often do you see cheese in Korean restaurants? Plus, this is "military stew" - made with cheap, processed meats that will last a long time.

There may be 1-2 places in Philly that won't serve provolone with cheesesteaks, and you'll never see me there. If that makes me "inauthentic," then so be it.

I've had Grilled Cheese sandwiches twice this week - with cheddar. And cheddar melts just fine - it may not wilt-and-cling, but it melts just as I want it to, while retaining a degree of textural integrity (because it has been cheddared). There's a reason you don't see American cheese in other cheese-producing countries, or in the best American restaurants. Yeah, I know: La Vache qui Rit ... it's for kids.

I was really hoping you'd pick up on the textural component of substituting American cheese for Paneer. Taste-wise, there wouldn't be all that much difference between American cheese and Paneer, especially the crap you buy in a loaf; but the mere thought of it is gross.

Saag and Palak should be two different things (I'm not sure if this is nationwide, or regional), but from what I've heard, places (and I'm talking about in India) often use them interchangeably in reality, and it's apparently unpredictable. Here in DC, it's often whatever people find at Restaurant Depot (people would be shocked to see how many Indian restaurants do their shopping there). All this Saag-Palak-Mustard Greens-Spinach-regional stuff used to be on the tip of my tongue, but I haven't thought about it in years now - one thing's for sure: spinach is very different than mustard greens, both in taste and texture.

I think maybe we should talk with Frank Ruta and Peter Smith, and get their opinions on American Cheese, given that they've served me the two greatest cheeseburgers I've ever eaten.

Does this all make me a snob? A pretender? Hell - good thing I didn't chime in here.

[As he takes the last sip of his Diet Dr. Pepper.]

To each, their own. I think it's awesome that MsDiPesto considers herself an "American Cheese Snob." 

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1 hour ago, MsDiPesto said:

I'm an American Cheese snob. Land 'o Lakes is the best, and Wegman's house brand is very close. I really don't care for some of the other supermarket brands of American Cheese. 

The American cheese I used to eat as a kid we called "square cheese" when we ordered it at the deli.  It was a perfectly fine cheese (not a "cheese product"), with a very slight tang and good melting capabilities. It's been a long enough time that I don't recall exactly--though I know we've had the conversation here before--but I think it sometimes had little bubble holes in it like Swiss cheese. 

 I don't know where to find that kind of cheese anymore and I'm hoping to because some of the recipes in Lisa Fain's Queso!  cookbook call for it.  I never get to Wegman's, but maybe I'll try LoL, which I'm sure is easily found.

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31 minutes ago, Ericandblueboy said:

I see no redeeming quality to American cheese.

It's good for wrapping pills in to get your dog to take them. ;-)

Actually, I like American cheese in some scenarios, many of which have already been mentioned above.

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3 hours ago, Ericandblueboy said:

I see no redeeming quality to American cheese.  It adds calories without enhancing flavor. 

I agree with you. When I make grilled cheese, I use very thin slices of extra sharp cheddar. It melts just fine--I turn the heat down to medium after the bread is browned nicely on both sides. 

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19 hours ago, Ericandblueboy said:

I see no redeeming quality to American cheese.  It adds calories without enhancing flavor. 

I agree and I am a bit surprised this is even a topic among food professionals and real food lovers. I am a cheese professional, though, so if I may...

In the 1830's or so USA was the world's leading exporter of cheese for about 30 years until we started being cheap by filling it with crap and skimming the milk. The rest of the world caught on to our shitty practices and from then on "American cheese" was known as garbage. No matter what kind it was. This was even before the processed shit was invented. We (as food and cheese professionals) STILL deal with this stereotype that all American made cheese must be crap. 

Here are my reasons for not supporting shit, processed cheese on well made burgers (paid for at restaurants, idgaf what you do at home):
~It doesn't actually taste like anything and you know it; it's just a greasy texture thing
~You are choosing not to support real farmers, real artisans, tradition, history, or safe/responsible farming practices
~You're eating garbage, processed food and paying how much? Yes, the chef is prob laughing at you.
~IT AINT FUCKING CHEESE 

There are so many options for burger cheeses. If a chef chooses to put American processed 'cheese' on his burger (and isn't being ironic or creative about it) then they are either being lazy af, don't actually care about flavor, or their taste/palate is just really bad. 

Chefs and diners, please: Support real cheese. Support real farmers. Support small scale artisans. Support sustainable dairying. Support the diversity of dairy breeds, dairy microorganisms, and grasses. Cheese is a real food with an extremely long history, why choose a tasteless, cheap imitation? 

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41 minutes ago, milkmaid said:

Here are my reasons for not supporting shit, processed cheese on well made burgers (paid for at restaurants, idgaf what you do at home):
~It doesn't actually taste like anything and you know it; it's just a greasy texture thing
~You are choosing not to support real farmers, real artisans, tradition, history, or safe/responsible farming practices
~You're eating garbage, processed food and paying how much? Yes, the chef is prob laughing at you.
~IT AINT FUCKING CHEESE 

- Sometimes greasy-textured things make other things better, even without improving flavor. LIKE AMERICAN CHEESE ON A BURGER. How's that for tautology?

- I'm not sure that supporting Kraft or Velveeta cheddar (which is really cheddar) is doing anything to support real farmers, real artisans, tradition, history, or safe/responsible farming practices. This is the only one that I do agree with overall, but I don't think they way you're suggesting to do it actually does that.  

- The original cheeseburger was made with American cheese, and it's a simple food item. If you pay $20 for a burger to get artisanal (GD'IT DR.COM this word is spelled correctly, and every time I type it I think I typed it wrong and I try over and over and I cannot get it right, THIS ALONE MAY MAKE ME QUIT THE SITE) cheese on it, the chef it also probably laughing at you. (Man, these are very well humored chefs we all deal with, I appreciate a laughing, if devious chef). 

- Not sure I got anything for that. Except that it is! BOO YA!

22 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I believe that cheese has no place whatsoever in Budae-jjigae - I see in the article, about halfway down, that it has become bastardized over the years, sometimes with American cheese, but there's *no doubt* to me that this dish is better without *any* cheese in it. How often do you see cheese in Korean restaurants? Plus, this is "military stew" - made with cheap, processed meats that will last a long time.

There may be 1-2 places in Philly that won't serve provolone with cheesesteaks, and you'll never see me there. If that makes me "inauthentic," then so be it.

I've had Grilled Cheese sandwiches twice this week - with cheddar. And cheddar melts just fine - it may not wilt-and-cling, but it melts just as I want it to, while retaining a degree of textural integrity (because it has been cheddared). There's a reason you don't see American cheese in other cheese-producing countries, or in the best American restaurants. Yeah, I know: La Vache qui Rit ... it's for kids.

I was really hoping you'd pick up on the textural component of substituting American cheese for Paneer. Taste-wise, there wouldn't be all that much difference between American cheese and Paneer, especially the crap you buy in a loaf; but the mere thought of it is gross.

- Well, in Korea, or if you ask many local Koreans, or the folks in Annandale that use it in the dish, or the fantastic cooking videos Koreans have (and the Japanese for that matter .. it starts with automobiles and then permeates everything, and now we can't even have a decent cooking video... thanks UAW!!) all typically use it. Makes the texture nice and greasy. (See what I did there??)

- Yup. And that's tragic, because you seem to care for authenticity, so it hurts me more than it hurts you that you disrespect not just the Cheesesteak, but also Philadelphia as a city, the people that live there, Charles Barkley, and Will Smith (BORN AND RAISED, WHERE HE SPENT MOST OF HIS DAYS)

- Adults like a lot of dumb things. Like war. And racism. And sexual harassment. Sometimes, I choose what the kids prefer. Because they aren't dum dums

- Saag Paneer = saag + paneer. Paneer is an actual thing. It doesn't taste like American cheese. It doesn't congeal and melt (in that beautiful way American does). It's bite size pieces of home made deliciousness. I'll make saag "American cheese" (because saag paneer is already a thing) and send you some. It will be a gooey, horrendous mess. 

-------------

Interesting that those that are okay with the quirkiness of American cheese (a food that's been created in labs FOR CENTURIES - GO SCIENCE!! DO YOU ALL ALSO HATE SCIENCE) are listening and hearing your arguments, and those that don't think that the rest of us are stupid, unsophisticated, getting laughed at by chefs (WHO ARE ALL THESE LAUGHING CHEFS??? JOSE ANDRES BARELY BREAKS A SMILE ANY MORE), wasting our money,  and don't care about farmers/artisans (okay when used as a noun, it's correct, so at least the site gets that right).

Seriously, Don, Philadelphia is SO PISSED right now. Be careful.  

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26 minutes ago, milkmaid said:

I agree and I am a bit surprised this is even a topic among food professionals and real food lovers. I am a cheese professional, though, so if I may...

In the 1830's or so USA was the world's leading exporter of cheese for about 30 years until we started being cheap by filling it with crap and skimming the milk. The rest of the world caught on to our shitty practices and from then on "American cheese" was known as garbage. No matter what kind it was. This was even before the processed shit was invented. We (as food and cheese professionals) STILL deal with this stereotype that all American made cheese must be crap. 

Here are my reasons for not supporting shit, processed cheese on well made burgers (paid for at restaurants, idgaf what you do at home):
~It doesn't actually taste like anything and you know it; it's just a greasy texture thing
~You are choosing not to support real farmers, real artisans, tradition, history, or safe/responsible farming practices
~You're eating garbage, processed food and paying how much? Yes, the chef is prob laughing at you.
~IT AINT FUCKING CHEESE 

There are so many options for burger cheeses. If a chef chooses to put American processed 'cheese' on his burger (and isn't being ironic or creative about it) then they are either being lazy af, don't actually care about flavor, or their taste/palate is just really bad. 

Chefs and diners, please: Support real cheese. Support real farmers. Support small scale artisans. Support sustainable dairying. Support the diversity of dairy breeds, dairy microorganisms, and grasses. Cheese is a real food with an extremely long history, why choose a tasteless, cheap imitation? 

I had no idea we were exporting that much cheese in the 1830s. That's fascinating.

If I could find the stuff I remember (which we used on ham and cheese sandwiches and things like that, and it did actually have a taste), I would like to find it again. Since I haven't been able to find it, I'm not sure it exists anymore, but the new Fain book calls for it. I think it was johnb who had the most extensive comments on this last time, but I'm not invested enough to dig for the thread.  His memories were somewhat similar to mine, IIRC.  

For some reason, my mother usually used processed cheese for grilled cheese, but we used square cheese for other sandwiches (including hamburgers) and deli platters, etc.  

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On 11/1/2017 at 12:47 PM, Simul Parikh said:

- Sometimes greasy-textured things make other things better, even without improving flavor. LIKE AMERICAN CHEESE ON A BURGER. How's that for tautology?

- I'm not sure that supporting Kraft or Velveeta cheddar (which is really cheddar) is doing anything to support real farmers, real artisans, tradition, history, or safe/responsible farming practices. This is the only one that I do agree with overall, but I don't think they way you're suggesting to do it actually does that.

- The original cheeseburger was made with American cheese, and it's a simple food item. If you pay $20 for a burger to get artisanal (GD'IT DR.COM this word is spelled correctly, and every time I type it I think I typed it wrong and I try over and over and I cannot get it right, THIS ALONE MAY MAKE ME QUIT THE SITE) cheese on it, the chef it also probably laughing at you. (Man, these are very well humored chefs we all deal with, I appreciate a laughing, if devious chef). 

- Not sure I got anything for that. Except that it is! BOO YA!

No, I suggest supporting real cheese. Not Kraft nor Velveeta. Those are not made by artisans, obviously. They are made in factories. And Velveta cheddar is not actually cheese, that's why it's labeled a cheese "product". Real cheese, I am talking real cheese. 

On 10/27/2017 at 7:37 PM, Simul Parikh said:

Disagree, Don. American cheese complements a good burger because it doesn't compete with the meat. 

Getting fancy cheese on a burger is like listening to Beethoven's 9th, but having Avicii mix it.

What makes a cheese "fancy"? Or do you mean "expensive"? And what is expensive to you? One ounce (1oz) of farmstead or artisanal cheese from even a small, geeky (i.e. Consider Bardwell Farm and not Cypress Grove) producer will cost the chef a dollar, if that. That's compared to the PENNIES they're paying for American processed cheese.  Real cheese made in the USA is not cheap to produce! Unlike most European countries, we are not given subsidies to produce traditional, real food. 

It's shit like American processed cheese that skews people's ideas of value. Real cheese is not fancy. It's just normal food. The processed stuff is what's abnormal.  American "cheese" is cheap. 

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1 hour ago, milkmaid said:

It's shit like American processed cheese that skews people's ideas of value. Real cheese is not fancy. It's just normal food. The processed stuff is what's abnormal.  American "cheese" is cheap. 

Agreed. Pasteurized Prepared Cheese Product?

kraft.jpg

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Can't you enjoy American processed cheese in some contexts (I mean, I'm not going to put in on a cheese plate) and also enjoy artisanal cheese, thus "supporting real cheese?" It's not an either or proposition. I actually only use American cheese to give my dog pills. I mainly use Muenster cheese for melting on sandwiches. It's made by Finlandia, presumably in a factory (so not a real cheese? I'm getting confused). When I'm making melted cheese sandwiches for my 3-year-old (or for myself most of the time) I'm not looking for artisanal cheese. Different cheeses for different purposes, I say. And I think we just like what we like. Isn't that OK?

Also, all cheese is processed.

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Just now, dracisk said:

Can't you enjoy American processed cheese in some contexts (I mean, I'm not going to put in on a cheese plate) and also enjoy artisanal cheese, thus "supporting real cheese?" It's not an either or proposition. I actually only use American cheese to give my dog pills. I mainly use Muenster cheese for melting on sandwiches. It's made by Finlandia, presumably in a factory (so not a real cheese? I'm getting confused). When I'm making melted cheese sandwiches for my 3-year-old (or for myself most of the time) I'm not looking for artisanal cheese. Different cheeses for different purposes, I say. And I think we just like what we like. Isn't that OK?

Also, all cheese is processed.

Actually, no. Your child is subhuman. Your dog is subhuman, b/c of the pills (sorry, Dog). You're subhuman b/c you subscribe to this. And I am, too. As is Kwame's boy and DavidO. We will be processed cheese product pariahs, living in shanty towns on the side of the highways near Dulles, with the owners of Le Diplomate and Jucy Lucy and Harry Snyder. Nothing you ever say about food can be listened to. EVER.

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On 11/1/2017 at 1:24 PM, dracisk said:

Can't you enjoy American processed cheese in some contexts (I mean, I'm not going to put in on a cheese plate) and also enjoy artisanal cheese, thus "supporting real cheese?" It's not an either or proposition. I actually only use American cheese to give my dog pills. I mainly use Muenster cheese for melting on sandwiches. It's made by Finlandia, presumably in a factory (so not a real cheese? I'm getting confused). When I'm making melted cheese sandwiches for my 3-year-old (or for myself most of the time) I'm not looking for artisanal cheese. Different cheeses for different purposes, I say. And I think we just like what we like. Isn't that OK?

Also, all cheese is processed.

Yeah...you or whoever can do whatever you want. You can choose to support corporations or you can choose to support artisans, you can do either, or you can do both. But this was about paying for this product at a restaurant, not what you do at home.

I don't care how people eat at home. Economics play a huge role in how we go grocery shopping. You think cheese pros make enough to shop at the farmer's markets every week? Nope! I can't even afford organic. But I also do care about supporting small family farmers and real cheesemakers. I care about ensuring cheese has a future and will be enjoyed by all people, not just the super rich. I care about traditions not dying out. 

So that factory made Muenster you have? Hell, I'll eat it at home too. But that's a great example of real food going to inauthentic shit and a tradition being altered. The Real Muenster was invented by Benedictine monks many, many centuries ago in Alsace. It is a washed rind cheese with a pungent aroma and soft texture beneath the red rind. Yet, today, Americans know it as a semi soft, mild cheese. So is your muenster real cheese? It ain't real Muenster cheese, I'll tell you that. And guess who can afford the real Muenster? Not many people. 

I have kids too, and they eat artisanal cheese on grilled cheese. Why wouldn't they? Because kids only deserve to eat cheap food? Because their palates are "unsophisticated"? Because when they're younger, their health and eating habits don't matter? I actually tried to cheap out and give them American "cheese" and they hated it. Spat it out. Not all artisanal cheese is out of reach for everyone. Sadly, most people equate "Artisanal" with "expensive" instead "quality" or "heathy". People should be equating processed cheese products as cheap and unhealthy. If we could put the words "factory" in front of food as much as we use "artisanal" maybe people would think about food differently.  Factory cheese, factory beef, factory lettuce, factory sesame seed bun.... 

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6 minutes ago, milkmaid said:

Because kids only deserve to eat cheap food? Because their palates are "unsophisticated"? Because when they're younger, their health and eating habits don't matter?

No, I don't think that my daughter only deserves to eat cheap food or that her health and eating habits don't matter. I do think her palate is developing at 3 years old. I try to help develop it by introducing her to new foods all the time (or at least offering them -- I can't make her eat). It's a process. We haven't arrived at artisanal grilled cheese yet.

I'd rather support only artisans, but I end up supporting corporations, too. I wish I had the energy, money, and time to eat only artisanal foods (particularly cheese, which I looooove), but sadly I don't. Such is life.

Anyway, we've drifted away from the topic at hand, which is apparently cheese on restaurant hamburgers.

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23 minutes ago, milkmaid said:

Sadly, most people equate "Artisanal" with "expensive" instead "quality" or "heathy". People should be equating processed cheese products as cheap and unhealthy. If we could put the words "factory" in front of food as much as we use "artisanal" maybe people would think about food differently.  Factory cheese, factory beef, factory lettuce, factory sesame seed bun.... 

Is that mostly an American/modern thing? My Croatian guides seemed to be eating 'farm to table' way before it's cool? I wonder if equating "artisanal" to "expensive" rather than "quality" or "healthy" is American. Home churned butter and fresh Buffalo milk delivered was the only option in the Indian town my parents grew up in, but now it's way cooler to get Land O' Lakes or whatever. I don't know France. I wonder if their local small town cheeses are not that far differently priced than the supermarket stuff. 

Are there "artisanal" / "non-processed" food items that are cheaper or same price than their processed counterparts? Things I can think of - fresh farmer's eggs in Southern Maryland, local organic corn in summer, other vegetables in summer. Meat / fish always more expensive. Most fruits. Chocolate. Cheese. Bread. It's a bummer. 

 

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18 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Confession: I regularly take my daughter to 5 Guys for burgers. They only have one kind of cheese, and yep, I order the cheeseburger. And no, I cannot square this with my love and respect for cheese.

Hell yeah, I admit I do the same. But they don't claim to be celebrity chefs there. I'd much rather go to Five Guys then eat a burger in an upscale restaurant. 

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Oh my dear friends, I'm about to come out of the closet. I was raised poor; so poor that not only did I live on food stamp food as a child, but at the end of the month received USDA government food. "American cheese" is a USDA recipe which is why Kraft singles taste exactly like "government cheese."

How do I know this? When I started dating my husband, he told me that I should talk to strangers on Metro b/c they have good stories. One day I saw a woman with a tote bag from a dairy conference so I asked her the question. Why does government cheese taste exactly like Kraft. Does kraft have the contract? She laughed and said there are 5-7 contracts to make "government cheese" and Kraft might have one but it doesn't matter b/c USDA publishes the recipe and it is EXACTLY THE SAME.

Here's a link: "WTF Happened to Government Cheese?" by Myles Karp on munchies.vice.com

I have made entire meals out of government cheese, powered milk, flour, and peanut butter. 

(Unrelated story): I also met an MD and FBI agent brother set who were Jewish. I have a couple of friends who only date within their faith so I invited the brothers to a happy hour to meet them. The men in my social group behaved like apes and even tried to (figuratively) pee on the FBI agents shoes. My now husband asked why I invited two single guys to a happy hour full of single guys and i told him "because YOU suggested I speak to strangers on metro". (My friends and these two tilted different ways politically so, it didn't work out).

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On 10/31/2017 at 7:54 AM, Simul Parikh said:

You want to eat Cheeseteak without Cheese-Whiz? It's something, but it ain't Philly Cheesesteak. 

BZZZZZT.

Sorry, I grew up in Philly, and while I'm fine with wiz on steaks, it certainly is still a Philly steak with other cheeses, American and Provolone being the most common. In fact, if you dive into the history, the first generation of steaks didn't have cheese at all, and the first to make an appearance was provolone.

My go-to has always been "Pizza Steak wit", which is sharp provolone, onions, and "red gravy", otherwise known as Sunday sauce or tomato sauce.

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The US Government used to have non-commercial specs for just about everything.  The specs ensured the quality of the products received.  Cookies had diameter and number of chocolate chips per cookie (within certain tolerances) specified, to ensure that the manufacturer (typically the lowest bidder) didn't skimp on the ingredients.

That's largely gone away for commercially available items such as cheese and cookies and laptops.

But considering how manufacturers are now using packaging tricks to shave off quantity and cheapening their components for "durables", maybe we should go back to "government" cheese.

---

I don't care what is traditional and authentic, especially when we are talking about foodstuff that goes back less than a century.  Cheese whiz is gross and an American cheese sandwich is a lost opportunity. 

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