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Fabio Trabocchi in New York City


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Jeez.. I often spend $497.07 on dinner and don't review restaurants for a living. And that number is practically my whole monthly disability check. If your a lover of great food and restaurants what other choice do you have?

And how could anyone predict complete satisfaction when trying a restaurant for the first time? I often feel I didn't get my moneys worth trying new restaurants. Disappointed at times sure. But without trying something new, true jewels like Komi and others would have passed me bye.

I'm hoping to get to Fiamma in the next month or so. Will report back.

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F yeah.

"Since Mr. Trabocchi took over the kitchen at Fiamma in September, much of the response to his cooking has been perplexed, centering on questions of nomenclature and ethnic fidelity.

Can a lasagna with as little sunshine and as much stormy intensity as Mr. Trabocchi’s justly call itself lasagna? And can a restaurant with food as ornate, saucy and creamy as Fiamma’s rightly call itself Italian?"

Fabio needs to leave New Yawk where every review wants to discuss whether or not his cuisine is Italian. It should not be a question-it is truly irrelevant. But even Bruni and Alan Richman succomb and waste precious words on this. It is absurd that this is even a consideration. Just absurd.

Just as absurd is three stars on a four star scale.

Come home, Fabio. Perhaps a red sauce Eyetalian will open in the "Osteria" you are wasting your time in.

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"Since Mr. Trabocchi took over the kitchen at Fiamma in September, much of the response to his cooking has been perplexed, centering on questions of nomenclature and ethnic fidelity.

Can a lasagna with as little sunshine and as much stormy intensity as Mr. Trabocchi’s justly call itself lasagna? And can a restaurant with food as ornate, saucy and creamy as Fiamma’s rightly call itself Italian?"

Fabio needs to leave New Yawk where every review wants to discuss whether or not his cuisine is Italian. It should not be a question-it is truly irrelevant. But even Bruni and Alan Richman succomb and waste precious words on this. It is absurd that this is even a consideration. Just absurd.

Joe, you're quoting selectively. Sounds to me like Bruni addressed the discussion and dismissed it as irrelevant:

That’s a chewy topic for debate, and I cast my vote this way: Fiamma is about as Italian as a poodle in a Prada scarf.

It owes its accessories — the olive oil, the balsamic vinegar, many of the cheeses (fontina, burrata, ricotta salata) — to Italy. It owes its classically indulgent soul to France.

It owes apologies and explanations to no one. When a restaurant turns out this many dishes that make you stop mid-chew, nudge a companion and nod your head vigorously — because you’re excited; because you need to start working off the calories any way you can — it needn’t worry about fitting into a tidy box.

A very positive review, which places Fiamma on par with other very good NYC restaurants two month after taking over the restaurant. "If you can make there, you can make it anywhere..." I suspect Chef Trabbochi will be staying where he is for now.

And I'd like to hear why discussing whether the food of an Italian chef in an ostensibly Italian restaurant is Italian is "absurd." Why is it "absurd" to talk about whether the food hews to tradition, or strikes out in a new direction, or what the chef's influences might be?

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"Since Mr. Trabocchi took over the kitchen at Fiamma in September, much of the response to his cooking has been perplexed, centering on questions of nomenclature and ethnic fidelity.

Can a lasagna with as little sunshine and as much stormy intensity as Mr. Trabocchi’s justly call itself lasagna? And can a restaurant with food as ornate, saucy and creamy as Fiamma’s rightly call itself Italian?"

Fabio needs to leave New Yawk where every review wants to discuss whether or not his cuisine is Italian. It should not be a question-it is truly irrelevant. But even Bruni and Alan Richman succomb and waste precious words on this. It is absurd that this is even a consideration. Just absurd.

Just as absurd is three stars on a four star scale.

Come home, Fabio. Perhaps a red sauce Eyetalian will open in the "Osteria" you are wasting your time in.

Joe, those passages are very selectively quoted. The review was very positive overall. Not everyone in NY is hell bent on discrediting Fabio, or restaurants in DC, as you seem to think.
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I can't speak for Joe. But I can only assume his fear is regarding the medias snowball effect mentality in all things when they latch onto one thing specifically. If that is the case I can only assume myself that it would only be a distraction from Chef Trabocchi's talent.

For a great report and photos see link below for a description of my online buddies recent meal.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...;p=1499727&

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How can anybody possibly read that review and think that Bruni is piling on? He's more or less declaring the "yeahbutisitItalian?" debate irrelevant.

Key graphs: "Would you find these entrees in Italy, even up north? Maybe, in a very fussy restaurant. In most others, no. And who cares? They're prepared with finesse, and they're the definition of luxury, no matter the geography, no matter the language."

And: "It owes apologies and explanations to no one. When a restaurant turns out this many dishes that make you stop mid-chew, nudge a companion and nod your head vigorously - because you're excited; because you need to start working off the calories any way you can - it needn't worry about fitting into a tidy box."

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Re this: "Just as absurd is three stars on a four star scale."

How is that absurd? While I do think the review read like something closer to four than three, the NYT tends to be incredibly stingy with that fourth star. I'm pretty sure you can count on one hand the number of four-star restaurants in NYC right now, per the Times: Daniel, Le Bernardin, Jean Georges, Per Se and Masa.

They don't do half stars, so three is next best. And guess what? Your boy has good company in the three-star 'hood. L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon, Alain Ducasse, Aquavit, Bouley for instance.

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Given how fickle & weird Bruni can be towards high-end dining I think they are lucky to get three. Not lucky in the sense that they don't deserve it, but lucky in that it was possible for them to get a review that would have been much worse & completely undeserved. Three stars is a very high rating from the NYT. FWIW I think Italian is the only area where Bruni really knows what he is talking about, but I think that given the way he tries to give each review a "spin" or an "angle" they should have been worried he would have said "three star food but I am taking a star away for not being Italian."

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I just wish the question would not be centered around is it Italian or not. Which has been the topic in the last three reviews by well known critic's
But if he's more or less saying that the question all these people keep asking (rhetorically or otherwise) is kinda meaningless in the case of Trabocchi's cuisine, isn't it actually a good thing that he's addressing it here?
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So, if a reviewer's discussion of whether or not Fiamma is Italian is distracting and perhaps annoying, what does that make a discussion about that discussion?

Has anyone here actually eaten there? Or will I have to settle for the prose and photos (and confirmation of 3-star accuracy, but suggesting a 4th) of that notorious peasant-palate Don Sconzo?

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So, if a reviewer's discussion of whether or not Fiamma is Italian is distracting and perhaps annoying, what does that make a discussion about that discussion?

Has anyone here actually eaten there? Or will I have to settle for the prose and photos (and confirmation of 3-star accuracy, but suggesting a 4th) of that notorious peasant-palate Don Sconzo?

I seem to remember that an outspoken New York City food blogger once decreed that Italian cuisine could never get 4 stars because it is peasant food. :(

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So, if a reviewer's discussion of whether or not Fiamma is Italian is distracting and perhaps annoying, what does that make a discussion about that discussion?

Has anyone here actually eaten there? Or will I have to settle for the prose and photos (and confirmation of 3-star accuracy, but suggesting a 4th) of that notorious peasant-palate Don Sconzo?

Peasant-palate because he enjoys food that evokes his Southern Italian roots?

Or because he has dined on guinea pigs?

* * *

How does discussing a discussion differ from writing about words? I suspect there are a lot of former English majors among us who parse language still.

I personally am quite amused that a chef native to Le Marche, a place "known" for its training of Italian chefs ( :( for Heather) is complimented for the French elegance with which he prepares dishes that rely on an international range of ingredients. (Though "poodle" does not do the French proud and says something about Bruni's light impatience with neat little categories.)

The dilemma of classification is but isn't just silly, and over at that other food site there have been some good points made among all the trivial, inane, prejudiced and redundant in numerous topics devoted to innovation in Italian cooking, its relevance, or complex relationship to French cuisine which, in terms of the latter, usually take the form of hierarchical assessments. Much has to do with history, not just 19th-century Paris, but the fact that since the collapse of the Western Empire, Rome has never been to Italy what Paris became to France back in the 13th and 14th centuries. We still tend to think of Italian food as home cooking that is best when it's faithful to regional traditions. Simplicity, fidelity to excellent ingredients blah blah blah. As someone who has spent more money on groceries than on restaurants in Italy or at home, I'm not the best judge. However, it is my impression that Trabocchi enjoys greater freedom to experiment here in the U.S. than most of his peers back home. There are exceptions, of course, including non-Mama Mia types like the guy with the hair at Gambero Rosso.

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Peasant-palate because he enjoys food that evokes his Southern Italian roots?

Or because he has dined on guinea pigs?

* * *

How does discussing a discussion differ from writing about words? I suspect there are a lot of former English majors among us who parse language still.

I personally am quite amused that a chef native to Le Marche, a place "known" for its training of Italian chefs ( :( for Heather) is complimented for the French elegance with which he prepares dishes that rely on an international range of ingredients. (Though "poodle" does not do the French proud and says something about Bruni's light impatience with neat little categories.)

The dilemma of classification is but isn't just silly, and over at that other food site there have been some good points made among all the trivial, inane, prejudiced and redundant in numerous topics devoted to innovation in Italian cooking, its relevance, or complex relationship to French cuisine which, in terms of the latter, usually take the form of hierarchical assessments. Much has to do with history, not just 19th-century Paris, but the fact that since the collapse of the Western Empire, Rome has never been to Italy what Paris became to France back in the 13th and 14th centuries. We still tend to think of Italian food as home cooking that is best when it's faithful to regional traditions. Simplicity, fidelity to excellent ingredients blah blah blah. As someone who has spent more money on groceries than on restaurants in Italy or at home, I'm not the best judge. However, it is my impression that Trabocchi enjoys greater freedom to experiment here in the U.S. than most of his peers back home. There are exceptions, of course, including non-Mama Mia types like the guy with the hair at Gambero Rosso.

When one writes on Shakespeare, one is -- one hopes -- directly illuminating some text or theme in a way which will allow for greater understand and enjoyment of the "words." When one writes about the taxonomy of Fabio Trabocchi's cooking -- as opposed to the cooking itself -- one is shedding at best an indirect light on the food which -- like Shakespeare's words -- is the point. When one writes about that writing, one has turned the light altogether away.

You're just irked because they call him "French". If they said he was Spanish, you wouldn't care one whit. :(

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When one writes on Shakespeare, one is -- one hopes -- directly illuminating some text or theme in a way which will allow for greater understand and enjoyment of the "words." When one writes about the taxonomy of Fabio Trabocchi's cooking -- as opposed to the cooking itself -- one is shedding at best an indirect light on the food which -- like Shakespeare's words -- is the point. When one writes about that writing, one has turned the light altogether away.
You're not going all PoMo Deconstructionist on us, are you? What is this website all about, if not discussing discussions about food?

On Fiamma...it was mentioned on another website that perhaps Bruni wanted to de-emphasize the Italian aspects of Fabio's cooking because he has a well-known bias toward Italian cuisine.

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You're not going all PoMo Deconstructionist on us, are you?

What is this website all about, if not discussing discussions about food?

We're not discussing food. At this point we're discussing whether we should be discussing a discussion about the classification of food. Or, as they say in England, wanking. :(

So I, for my part, shall cease, what with already needing glasses and all.

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Joe, those passages are very selectively quoted. The review was very positive overall. Not everyone in NY is hell bent on discrediting Fabio, or restaurants in DC, as you seem to think.

Has nothing to do with that. It's the distraction of even having a discussion of whether it's "Italian" or not. In the eGullet thread that Robert linked both Le Calandre and La Pergola are mentioned. I've eaten at both, with three dinners at Calandre. They are similar to Fabio in that they are not traditional but rather interpretative Italian. Yet, they both have three Michelin stars and are both considered to be among the three best restaurants in Italy along with the far more traditional (if you will) Dal Pescatore which I have also been to. Fabio is Fabio. Whether he's Italian, interpretative Italian or whatever his cuisine is-it's his cuisine. And, for me, it is the equal of any in both America and Italy right now. I had an 18 course dinner just before he left Maestro that ranks with any dinner I've ever had. For me three stars was an injustice on a four star scale.

As for New Yorkers? I have never seen so much space (Bruni, Alan Richman and Gael Greene) all wasting paragraphs in their reviews discussing whether or not what he serves is Italian. That IS a waste of space-what DOES IT MATTER? Is Robuchon French? Ducasse? Interpretative French? "Modern French?" What does it matter?

It doesn't, it shouldn't and it is a distraction to the man's cuisine that it is even mentioned. And it has been prominently mentioned/discussed by the three most prominent New York critics.

It is a real question, though: can a New York reviewer give a chef such as Fabio four stars? They seem to be predisposed not to. I am strongly suggesting, perhaps insisting, that if Fabio was in Rubano instead of Massimiliano Le Calandre would STILL have three stars. Their respective styles, their cutting edge creativity, there are many parallels in their cuisine.

I can't imagine sitting at a table and discussing whether or not his lobster ravioli is an Italian dish. Regardless of whatever classification one insists on branding it with it is still the best lobster ravioli of any kind that I have ever had.

And, speaking of French chefs, is Michel Richard a French chef? A non-traditional French chef? An interpretative French chef? Revisionist? Creative, intensely personal French chef?

It doesn't matter. He's a great chef, just as Robuchon, just as Ducasse, just as Keller, just as Adria, just as Santimaria, just as...Fabio.

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Has nothing to do with that. It's the distraction of even having a discussion of whether it's "Italian" or not. In the eGullet thread that Robert linked both Le Calandre and La Pergola are mentioned. I've eaten at both, with three dinners at Calandre. They are similar to Fabio in that they are not traditional but rather interpretative Italian. Yet, they both have three Michelin stars and are both considered to be among the three best restaurants in Italy along with the far more traditional (if you will) Dal Pescatore which I have also been to. Fabio is Fabio. Whether he's Italian, interpretative Italian or whatever his cuisine is-it's his cuisine. And, for me, it is the equal of any in both America and Italy right now. I had an 18 course dinner just before he left Maestro that ranks with any dinner I've ever had. For me three stars was an injustice on a four star scale.

As for New Yorkers? I have never seen so much space (Bruni, Alan Richman and Gael Greene) all wasting paragraphs in their reviews discussing whether or not what he serves is Italian. That IS a waste of space-what DOES IT MATTER? Is Robuchon French? Ducasse? Interpretative French? "Modern French?" What does it matter?

It doesn't, it shouldn't and it is a distraction to the man's cuisine that it is even mentioned. And it has been prominently mentioned/discussed by the three most prominent New York critics.

It is a real question, though: can a New York reviewer give a chef such as Fabio four stars? They seem to be predisposed not to. I am strongly suggesting, perhaps insisting, that if Fabio was in Rubano instead of Massimiliano Le Calandre would STILL have three stars. Their respective styles, their cutting edge creativity, there are many parallels in their cuisine.

I can't imagine sitting at a table and discussing whether or not his lobster ravioli is an Italian dish. Regardless of whatever classification one insists on branding it with it is still the best lobster ravioli of any kind that I have ever had.

And, speaking of French chefs, is Michel Richard a French chef? A non-traditional French chef? An interpretative French chef? Revisionist? Creative, intensely personal French chef?

It doesn't matter. He's a great chef, just as Robuchon, just as Ducasse, just as Keller, just as Adria, just as Santimaria, just as...Fabio.

Hmmm, could he possibly have wasted the space to educate potential diners as to what to expect? Maybe it was to help accentuate how different and interesting the food is as to what folks might assume that he is preparing.

Why on earth would a New York reviewer have a bias toward Fabio? Because he came to them via DC? Because it is not French food? Because he is an Italian not providing red sauced dishes? I just don't get your gripe, not to mention that I don't see where it says that he is not a great chef.

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He's an Italian-born chef. Trained in Italy. Is NEW to NYC, so many people up there might not know what to expect of his cuisine. He took over an ITALIAN RESTAURANT, formerly a more casual, traditionally Italian one. The restaurant has a noticably Italian name. Bruni and others have pointed out to their readers that...ahem, this ain't your typical Italian restaurant. And the food? Apparently he thinks it is truly special.

How many restaurants opened up with 4 NYT ****? I can think of only Per Se. Great review. I am sure they are ecstatic.

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Hmmm, could he possibly have wasted the space to educate potential diners as to what to expect? Maybe it was to help accentuate how different and interesting the food is as to what folks might assume that he is preparing.

Why on earth would a New York reviewer have a bias toward Fabio? Because he came to them via DC? Because it is not French food? Because he is an Italian not providing red sauced dishes? I just don't get your gripe, not to mention that I don't see where it says that he is not a great chef.

Before Fabio ever landed in New York there were threads on eG and CH as well as mentions in articles that a creative, interpretive chef SUCH as him may have to overcome the apparent preconceived notions of many New York critics of what Italian "should" be. There seems to be room on their part for one to be creative and Spanish (how many of them have flown to Roses?), creative and French (Gagnaire among others), creative and American (WD-50). But creative and Italian seems to inspire resistence-for whatever reason-on their part.

And, D. C.? I don't remember ever reading any consideration about that here. New York is the first time.

He is worth four stars.

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I think the perceived resistance in NY is towards creative food, not creative Italian food. New Yorkers love upscale Italian, witness Carmelli/Batali/Canora et all. None of these chefs are creative in the same way as Trabbuci, but none of them are serving straight up Italian cuisine. WD-50 is the only restaurant of its kind (except Tailor, which is young & may not live), and Liebrant et all have all failed a few times.

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I think the perceived resistance in NY is towards creative food, not creative Italian food. New Yorkers love upscale Italian, witness Carmelli/Batali/Canora et all. None of these chefs are creative in the same way as Trabbuci, but none of them are serving straight up Italian cuisine. WD-50 is the only restaurant of its kind (except Tailor, which is young & may not live), and Liebrant et all have all failed a few times.

Exactly. I could not agree more. You would not think so but the resistance to creative food is alive and well in NY. And with out falling into a argumentative discussion that is the basic point. The review was fine as was previous reviews but I just wish the focus would remain on was the food delicious or not. I am not that naive to think that the 'Is this Italian or not' subject would not come up. But I was hoping it would not be the primary focus.

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Before Fabio ever landed in New York there were threads on eG and CH as well as mentions in articles that a creative, interpretive chef SUCH as him may have to overcome the apparent preconceived notions of many New York critics of what Italian "should" be. There seems to be room on their part for one to be creative and Spanish (how many of them have flown to Roses?), creative and French (Gagnaire among others), creative and American (WD-50). But creative and Italian seems to inspire resistence-for whatever reason-on their part.

And, D. C.? I don't remember ever reading any consideration about that here. New York is the first time.

He is worth four stars.

(My bold above) Well the way I read it, Bruni did a damn good job of telling everyone to forget what they think Italian "should" be as he is doing some wonderful work in the kitchen.

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(My bold above) Well the way I read it, Bruni did a damn good job of telling everyone to forget what they think Italian "should" be as he is doing some wonderful work in the kitchen.
I would agree. Re-reading the article, Bruni's intentions seem very clear. Really looking forward to dinner at Fiamma tonight.
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I guess you don't know better. I'm happy for you that you have a lot of places to eat.
Hi and welcome to DR.com, nenadv. Did you read the review these last few comments are referring to? It's not very positive. Perhaps you've eaten at Fiamma recently, and would care to comment on that?
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Um, I think the poster was injecting some humor to the situation.

Yup. The last time I ate at The Olive Garden was five years ago. Although my last Hooters visit was much more recent for research purposes. heh heh.

Ok back to being the caper-ed crusader - defender of maligned fancy-pants chefs everywhere and egger of chain restaurants!

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As part of my eat-a-thon in NYC before New Year's, I checked out Fiamma....It was evening reminiscent of Maestro--(a) divine creative and playful teasers such as the beef carpaccio/tartare topped with quail eggs and caviar, escargots with scallops and pesto sauce; and (:mellow: familiar faces. Fabio had offered to do a tasting for us, but we opted to pick and choose from the menu so that we can try most of the items on the menu. We thoroughly enjoyed nibbling from each other's dishes. Five courses among the four of us allowed us to experience most of the offerings. I thought the weakest dish was the duo of veal which consisted of duo of veal ribeye and slow cooked veal cheeks with hazelnuts. I encourage y'all to try it out in the big apple if you miss Fabio's cooking!

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