Pizza

[Ericandblueboy]

Where's the closest good Neopolitan Pizza to Tysons Corner as of today (i.e., Pupatella isn't open as of today)? Another question, what time does 2 Amys get packed? Don't want to wait for a table tonight...

[hungry prof]

Another question, what time does 2 Amys get packed? Don't want to wait for a table tonight...

On a beautiful spring Friday night? I would guess there will be a line before 6:00.

[DPop]

I'd like to bump Comet Ping Pong off of my list above and replace it with Radius . Why didn't somebody tell me this pizza was so damn good???

[DanielK]

I'd like to bump Comet Ping Pong off of my list above and replace it with Radius . Why didn't somebody tell me this pizza was so damn good???

We did.

[Flavortown]

We did.

I did the math, and almost 1/6 of those posts are mine. And I'm going again tonight.

[DanielK]

I did the math, and almost 1/6 of those posts are mine. And I'm going again tonight.

It would be a lot easier on your budget if you'd just get them to give you a job...

[porcupine]

Of all of the horrible trends I have had to suffer through, I could go for something creamed and served on toast (in my father's Navy days it meant some strange tomato based ground beef concoction that he still loves - I don't get it).

I'm thinking of adding bresaola to a velouté and serving it on slices of toasted homemade brioche. Not quite as outrageous as mdt's spam terrine, but could be fun to serve to unsuspecting guests.

[chaofun]

My favs as of today are:

Pupatella

2 Amys

American Flatbread

Mia's

Radius

With a handful I still want to visit.

[baczkowski]

You know, Continental Pizza in Kensington is such an established institution that it's a shame that it doesn't have a thread yet (and still doesn't no thanks to me), but tonight we got take out for the second time in a couple months and both times we've come away disappointed. Tonight was the worst. It tasted exactly like the pizza you buy "fresh" in the grocery store and then cook in your oven--the same cheese, the same canned ingredients, the same under-doneness from a weak home oven. When I moved to Montgomery County three years ago, Continental quickly became my hands-down favorite non-gourmet pizza place--the crust was always an enticing crisp, greasy cracker and the mediocre quality cheese got a chewy brownness that I actually liked--but my esteem for them has to be rethought now. Did the renovations on that strip mall throw them off their game? But who could replace it as my favorite non-gourmet pizza?

And for those Colesville dwellers, don't offer Dominic's. I needed ibuprofen for my sore jaw after I ate their pizza. But I have to say that Dominic's must be the friendliest place in the world b/c that place gets filled with four generations of patrons every night and, boy, do the servers have a good time with each of them. And from the kids dressed in uniforms and the plaques and trophies on the wall, Dominic's has certainly earned its rep as a community institution in its own right. I have to admit, that atmosphere alone is worth going for. Not to mention to arcade games from 1986.

Pax,

Brian

[fuzzy510]

It would be a lot easier on your budget if you'd just get them to give you a job...

You don't think he's been making all of those laudatory posts for free, do you?

[DonRocks]

Well I hope everyone is having better luck than I am trying to phone in a carryout order from Pizzeria Orso and Pupatella tonight - both are rolling over to voice mails.

Damn, just when I thought Pie-tanza no longer served a useful purpose.

[lion]

Well I hope everyone is having better luck than I am trying to phone in a carryout order from Pizzeria Orso and Pupatella tonight - both are rolling over to voice mails.

Damn, just when I thought Pie-tanza no longer served a useful purpose.

If Pizzeria Orso becomes our own local Pizzeria Blanco, I'll be mildly irritated since only have been once!

The leftover slices were crispy the following day.

[beachgirl54]

Just heard from friends that Pupatella is sold out of pizza tonight . . .

Well I hope everyone is having better luck than I am trying to phone in a carryout order from Pizzeria Orso and Pupatella tonight - both are rolling over to voice mails.

Damn, just when I thought Pie-tanza no longer served a useful purpose.

[Joe H]

Yesterday evening I had two pizzas at Pizzaria Mozza in L. A., my third visit in the last year. This continues as the best pizza crust I have had anywhere. What is important is that they do NOT use buffalo mozz on any pie. They do use burrata on one, but it's cold burrata which is spooned on just after the pie comes out of the oven. It was fascinating to watch them make pizzas for over an hour sitting on the other side of the counter. They limit the stretching they do of the dough and I was told it's a three day "process." Philly's Beard winning Osteria has several pizzas which have a three day "rise" and are the best I've had on the East Coast. At Mozza olive oil is brushed on a two inch or so ring around the edge of the crust after the dough is stretched. Their crust is still crisper than even Osteria or, say the original Pepe's.

I will return to Orso and try a pizza without buffalo mozz. But once again I ate every crumb on Mozza's plate. An unbelievable crust. I'm not so sure if it's my favorite pizza -that might still be in New Haven or a pizzaria in Rimini called La Fogata.

[pizza man]

I can also recommend Wood Fired in Tampa, and Il Pizzaiolo in Pittsburgh..

[Ericandblueboy]

Let's update the pizza finds of this city now that we've digested some of the new pizzas.

I haven't gone back to Red Rocks or 2 Amys recently but my top 5 are:

1-3 Orso, Red Rocks, 2 Amys

4-5. Pupatella, Il Canale

Have not been to Mia's, Comet, Pucci, Radius, 7th Hill, and Moroni among the notables.

[goodeats]

But pizza wise, if there's one thing that can't be missed, it's the Corn and Tomato Pizza: the sweet Virginia corn and tomatoes that Chef is working with are already a match made in heaven, but with goat cheese, mozzarella, and pickled red onions providing a backdrop, their affinity is amplified beautifully.

AND

Go this week and get the Cream Sauce, Mozzarella, Sweet Corn, and Proscuitto Cotto Pizza ($11). Just trust me and do it.

Took both of your advice and tried these two pies at their respective places. Both pizzas evoked awesome memories of a summer in Taiwan where my family would order shrimp and corn pizza from Domino's and we would all sit by the air conditioning and enjoy.

Radius uses both white and yellow corn, giving it a sweetness that edges out Pupatella's in corn-huskin' goodness, but Pupatella's sauce + mozzarella rocked its pizza last night, with a lovely chew on the crust. Both are a definite to listen to our fearless leader and "trust me and do it" kind of pies.

[DonRocks]

What I had for lunch at the Gallery Place Clyde’s was overly sweet with a hit of heat but no real flavor, to make matters worse the quantity of beans overwhelmed the miniscule amount of meat present in the cup. Might have been the worst chili I have had outside of Wendy’s.

Wendy's isn't (or didn't used to be) that bad - I used to get it as a topping for my baked potato. It made for a pretty healthy lunch. Just goes to show - even bad chili can be pretty good (unless it's exceedingly harsh, oily, and bitter). I wish I could say that about pizza - my whole pie today at Flippin' - decent and relatively unsalty on the palate as it tasted - was full of sodium, and was so disgusting when it got cold that I threw the rest away.

Good pizza - like good food in general - is still good when it's at room temperature. That's always been one of my benchmarks. Flippin didn't meet the criterion.

[Black Bear]

Yes, and unfortunately, I found out Pupatella is closed on Mondays also.

This left me with Pie-Tanza, and you know what? While it's not as good as Pupatella or Orso (sorry, it just isn't), it really is a pretty good pizza. "Pie-tanza was our Orso before there was Orso," my young dining companion said, quite accurately. Gold, Silver, Bronze ... the order is clear in North Arlington, but on Monday nights, Pie-Tanza gets the Gold.

Cheers,

Rocks.

Agreed. However, the din and chaos at Pie-Tanza from all the kids can be deafening. Like the Italian Store as well. Saw you in early with a review at Fireworks Pizza in Courthouse, but nothing substantive yet. Had a good meal and experience there last week, tried the pizza yet? Finally on the all pizza all the time channel, Rustico has now delayed their opening in Ballston until October (or so says the hostess at the Alexandria location....)

[thetrain]

Any good (or even marginal) pan or deep dish pizza in DC or NOVA? I had Armands once. It was terrible (I never say that about pizza), but it could have just been that location...

[lion]

Any good (or even marginal) pan or deep dish pizza in DC or NOVA? I had Armands once. It was terrible (I never say that about pizza), but it could have just been that location...

No.

With this weather, a stuffed or deep dish pizza would be great though.

[goodeats]

I thought at one point, I had heard some rumblings that Alberto's served pretty authentic deep-dish. Has anyone tried theirs? @thetrain, I would just order online from Giordano's, Gino's East or Lou Malnati's, put on your own choice of meat and get the real stuff.

[thetrain]

Thanks for the advice. Aspiring restauranteurs please note that this city has a dearth of pan/deep dish pizza.

[lion]

Not for long. District of Pi, the DC branch of St Louis-based Pi Pizzeria, launches their food truck this month, and opens their Penn Quarter location in March on π day.

Their specialty? Chicago deep-dish. The First Pizza Eater created something of a stir last fall by declaring it to be the best deep-dish yet, to the consternation of his hometown.

Wow, exciting! Looks like some tasty deep dish pizza. Now if only someone would do stuffed pizza.

[monavano]

Wow, exciting! Looks like some tasty deep dish pizza. Now if only someone would do stuffed pizza.

Pizza Hut?

[lion]

Pizza Hut?

Deep Dish versus Stuffed Pizza

[Ericandblueboy]

Would any pizza aficionado care to comment on where the best pizzas are these days? Is there any perceptible difference in quality between Redrocks DC vs. Old Town?

[Arcturus]

To be honest, at the moment I think Pupatella has the best stuff going. Da Marco wasn't bad when I tried them, but I had more minor quibbles with their pizze than I did with Pupatella.

EDIT: But I haven't tried Edan's new place yet, which I'm sure is awesome.

[saf]

Would any pizza aficionado care to comment on where the best pizzas are these days? Is there any perceptible difference in quality between Redrocks DC vs. Old Town?

I just had a pizza from the Pi truck, and it is very very good.

I also really like the pizza at Moroni still, as well as Pete's (Columbia Heights).

Red Rocks (11th St) is off the list, for a series of screw-ups and soggy pizza, culminating in bringing the wrong pizza to one of our party twice last time we were there with no apology until we made a stink, and VERY poor service throughout the experience.

[DanielK]

Pupatella is the best right now, though with the caveat that I haven't made it over to Local 16 to check out what Edan is doing.

[DonRocks]

But for pizzas? I'm developing the same sorts of excitement to go there [Pizzeria da Marco] that I used to have for Two Amys (which I still love, but live too far from for a weekly dinner, unfortunately).

Yep. (But keep in mind there are pretty much four things here total: pizza, salad, cheese, and charcuterie.)

I left thinking this [Pizzeria da Marco] may be my favorite pizza in town. The key is the crust.

Ditto on that--I had the salsiccia e friarelli on Friday night, and that was exactly the character of the crust that I had--really outstanding.

Ditto x 2. The crust here is outstanding, even though I'm slightly (only slightly) less excited about the toppings (my capricciosa, for example, had ham that was partially cut, but still bound together at the far end (i.e., not cut all the way through), but the pepperoni was 2 Amys good). The atmosphere is surprisingly nice, service is attentive, and the wine list is easily workable if you know what you're doing.

"Rankings" are a fools game, but I suppose I can play it as well as anyone - based on multiple, recent visits to every major pizzeria in town, I currently have 1) Pupatella 2a) Pizzeria da Marco 2b) Pizzeria Orso (yes, Pizzeria Orso, still) and 3) Two Amys (must order the pizza "well done") sharing the podium. (I have not been to Local 16 since Edan arrived.)

I looked at the Bethesda Dining Guide just now, and noticed that I'd neglected to raise Pizzeria da Marco - although that has been remedied, could people please report obvious errors and inconsistencies to me in the future? It harms both restaurants and the dining public when I make mistakes like this.

Cheers,

Rocks

[thetrain]

In the past week I ate pizza at Local 16, Orso, and Pupatella. With the caveat that I have a preference for some sourness in my crust I'd rank them 1. Orso, 2. Pupatella, 3. Local 16. I don't think there is a huge difference between Orso and Pupatella, and for me the dough tastes better at Orso. Local 16 crust also has some good flavor, but just isn't cooked as well (but edan wasn't there). All three were tasty and Local 16 might be the elusive perfect preconcert U st. dinner spot - affordable, big enough that you can get a table pretty easily and good food...worth dealing with meh beer list.

[Waitman]

"Rankings" are a fools game, but I suppose I can play it as well as anyone - based on multiple, recent visits to every major pizzeria in town, I currently have 1) Pupatella 2a) Pizzeria da Marco 2b) Pizzeria Orso (yes, Pizzeria Orso, still) and 3) Two Amys (must order the pizza "well done") sharing the podium. (I have not been to Local 16 since Edan arrived.)

I looked at the Bethesda Dining Guide just now, and noticed that I'd neglected to raise Pizzeria da Marco - although that has been remedied, could people please report obvious errors and inconsistencies to me in the future? It harms both restaurants and the dining public when I make mistakes like this.

Cheers,

Rocks

A pox on these expensive yuppie pies. The best pizza in Washington remains Vace's eminently affordable and bizarrely compelling creation.

[Pool Boy]

A pox on these expensive yuppie pies. The best pizza in Washington remains Vace's eminently affordable and bizarrely compelling creation.

I do enjoy Vace's pizza, but the crust is often too thick and doughy for my likes (although quite, quite flavorful). Gotta check out Da Marco soon to see how it fits in to my pizzaverse.

[DonRocks]

A pox on these expensive yuppie pies. The best pizza in Washington remains Vace's eminently affordable and bizarrely compelling creation.

Funny, I had a slice of Vace two days ago and I sure didn't think it was anything approaching "the best." It was tasty, though, and it certainly is cool and contrarian to root for it.

"I like truffles and I like tortilla chips, but I’m not confused about which flavor is more beautiful."

-- Terry Theise

[RWBooneJr]

"Rankings" are a fools game . . .

So is challenging Mr. Rockwell on any culinary matter (or, I suspect any other matter). But this list highlights a major problem with trying to find "the best pizza." When I think of pizza, three very similar but decidedly different things come to mind: neopolitan style (Don's list), New York style (for lack of a better descriptor), and Chicago-style (aka deep dish). For New York style, I have yet to find a better or more consistent purveyor than Pete's (I leave the debate regarding the nuances of New York style versus New Haven style to others). And the only Chicago style pie I like comes from a truck and is more reminiscent of a certain chain restaurant than anything you'd actually find in Chicago.

[porcupine]

this list highlights a major problem with trying to find "the best pizza."

There's another problem: defining "best".

Don, what are your criteria? What are your rankings based on?

[Waitman]

Funny, I had a slice of Vace two days ago and I sure didn't think it was anything approaching "the best." It was tasty, though, and it certainly is cool and contrarian to root for it.

"I like truffles and I like tortilla chips, but I’m not confused about which flavor is more beautiful."

-- Terry Theise

I do love me some Vace and and highly insulted to think that you think that I would suggest it as the region's best simply to be contrarian. You know I never do that sort of thing.

I confess, however, that I do not find "authentic" pizzas nearly as tasty as New York/New Haven style. The remind me not of truffles but of Champagne: the triumph of marketing (and Euro-envy) over flavor.

[DonRocks]

So is challenging Mr. Rockwell on any culinary matter (or, I suspect any other matter). But this list highlights a major problem with trying to find "the best pizza." When I think of pizza, three very similar but decidedly different things come to mind: neopolitan style (Don's list), New York style (for lack of a better descriptor), and Chicago-style (aka deep dish). For New York style, I have yet to find a better or more consistent purveyor than Pete's (I leave the debate regarding the nuances of New York style versus New Haven style to others). And the only Chicago style pie I like comes from a truck and is more reminiscent of a certain chain restaurant than anything you'd actually find in Chicago.

There's another problem: defining "best".

Don, what are your criteria? What are your rankings based on?

I do love me some Vace and and highly insulted to think that you think that I would suggest it as the region's best simply to be contrarian. You know I never do that sort of thing.

I confess, however, that I do not find "authentic" pizzas nearly as tasty as New York/New Haven style. The remind me not of truffles but of Champagne: the triumph of marketing (and Euro-envy) over flavor.

RWBooneJr's post really got me thinking about my personal biases. Likewise, porcupine's. And also Waitman's.

I feel like I should reply to these. First of all, let me say that I LIKE being challenged - if anyone's opinions (including mine) are above questioning, then nothing is worth anything and we all may as well just be rats being led off a cliff by the Pied Piper.

Let me explain that when I say "best," it has to be taken in a very "Consumer Reports" type of way - my entire Dining Guide, as far as I'm concerned, is up for challenge, scrutiny, and revision. Nothing is cast in stone.

Regarding pizza, I do seem to have developed a strong preference for well-made Neopolitan pies, but that's only because I feel the best offerings in the area right now are being made in that style. Remember, several years ago, I was the very first person to say that Comet Ping Pong was the best pizza in the area (if I recall correctly, no major critic dared to go against 2 Amys, but I did anyway), and I stood by that position until I felt it was no longer true. And I also thought American Flatbread was fantastic, right up there near the top.

What do I look for in a pizza? I look for things on a micro level, and things on a macro level.

Micro:

1) Tear off a piece of the end crust, with nothing at all on it. Is it worth smelling? Is it worth eating by itself? So many of the great pizzas I've had have almost a "propane-like" smell, and I'm not sure if it's because of the rise in the dough, the hot, blistery char, or a combination of both.

2) Pick off the individual toppings by themselves. Would you eat the cheese by itself? Is the sauce (canned though it may be) delicious and not pumped full of sugar, salt, or other items of distraction?

3) How are the toppings? Are they nitrated Hormel-level? Or are they things you'd gladly eat if they were served on a charcuterie plate? Are the roasted vegetables delicious by themselves, or do they need cheese, garlic, and tomato sauce to make them enjoyable?

4) Is there anything on the pizza, individually, that's weird, or stands out like a spike when eaten on its own?

5) Even though you can't always taste this, are the ingredients honorable? From a farm, or from a factory?

Macro:

1) Is the pizza, when eaten all together, in balance? Does acidity balance fat? Is there too much sauce or too much cheese? Is it too salty or sweet, or do all the flavors mesh together in harmony?

2) Does the pizza retain your interest from start to finish, or is it a "pizza of first impact," having a dramatic first bite, and quickly losing interest as you get towards the end of the pie?

3) Once it cools to room temperature, does it still taste as good as it did when it was piping hot from the oven? Many types of bad food rely on bubbly, gooey, hot fats and oils that serve as <<maquillage,>> the temperature covering up lesser ingredients which get downright nasty when they come down to room temperature.

4) Does it taste good the next day, unheated? (I'm not talking about texture; I'm talking about taste.)

Honestly, I've never really thought about an algorithm for judgment until just now, but this is pretty much what I do, I suppose.

[DonRocks]

[Would someone please write me at donrockwell@dcdining.com and tell me why there are 250 310 people reading this thread right now?]

---

ETA - My goodness, never underestimate the impact of Tyler Cowen.

Edited August 17, 2011 by DonRocks

[DanCole42]

Honestly, I've never really thought about an algorithm for judgment until just now, but this is pretty much what I do, I suppose.

Basically the entire first half of Reinhart's American Pie is a treatise on this. Good read.

[mdt]

Basically the entire first half of Reinhart's American Pie is a treatise on this. Good read.

As is his site Pizza Quest.

[RWBooneJr]

[Would someone please write me at donrockwell@dcdining.com and tell me why there are 250 310 people reading this thread right now?]

"Don Rockwell on Pizza" is this board's equivalent of Jesus' sermon on sex.

[Ericandblueboy]

Recently had pizzas at Orso and Pupatella. I actually like the crust at Orso better - a little less dense (even before Edan's departure, that's the most telling difference to me between these two fine pizza joints). I can't compare the toppings since I didn't have the same toppings at both places. Flavor-wise, they were both very good. I don't think there's much drop-off from the time when Edan was in charge. Pupatella sliced the pizza without request but Orso didn't. I like my pizza sliced, not so with my golf shots.

[weezy]

Had pizza a few weeks ago and calzones last night from Sicilian Pizza just north of the corner of Columbia Pike and Walter Reed Drive in Arlington. Very good stuff. The calzones last night were artichoke spinach with feta cheese and mushrooms and fresh tomato. Good balance of flavors and textures, each one is big enough to serve two normal-hungry appetites. You'd have to be a prodigious eater to get thru a whole one alone. Served with a little cup of sauce on the side for dipping. I'm not a dipperer so can't comment on sauce quality last night, but the pizzas a few weeks ago (eggplant & olive, proscuitto ricotta & onion, artichoke & spinach) were also very good. Nice crust, good yeasty flavor with a nice chew to it. The only fault with the pizzas was the proscuitto was cut a little too thick. For dining options, there are 2 small tables and that's it. I don't know that they do their own delivery but are hooked into one of the restaurant courier delivery groups.

I can't put it at the same level as Pupatella, and it's a different style of pie, but it's a good solid independent outfit and if you're in the neighborhood, well worth supporting.

[pizza man]

I actually like the crust at Orso better - a little less dense (even before Edan's departure, that's the most telling difference to me between these two fine pizza joints).

I like crust. This post leaves me in a quandry.. Miss that oven, (her name is Helena, by the way). Dog walking is a nice pastime.

[pizza man]

and on another note; it's a miracle that 2amys can produce the level of pizze that they do with that shitty oven. Pupatella, Il Canale, Da Marco and that other place all have the finest ovens that money can buy. What's the secret?

Nuff Said,

Now lets talk about fermentation...

[DanCole42]

Now lets talk about fermentation...

Waves magic wand over Edan... "Reveal to me... your secrets..."

[MikeLastort]

I'm a big fan of Roscoe's in Takoma Park. Very good pizza.

Also, Casa Nonna on Dupont Circle is quite good.

[giant shrimp]

I assume that the Norcia (pronounced nor-shuh) isn’t a best seller at 2 Amys, but it’s emerged as a favorite when I’m in the mood for meat, which I don’t eat that often during the week, usually only at restaurants. The salami is salty as it emerges from a cover of tomato sauce and mozzarella, sweetened by grilled pepper, a pleasantly chewy counterpart to the soft toppings. There was nothing remotely soupy going on the last time I had this. You could actually eat a slice holding it, with only the very tip of the center crust tonguing down.

The other day you were also able to celebrate pork with pancetta-wrapped spring onions, about the length of sparklers, almost thick and brown as cigars, five to an order and also easy to handle. Between the pizza and these there is obviously way too much salt for one meal. I felt like i wanted, or needed, a fried egg, but this is a consoling way of eating the thick scallion from its bulb up to the singed end of its leaf, the crisp bacony coat tending to overpower the filling, just as you might expect, once you stop paying strict attention to what you are eating, which does happen before you’ve finished, even when two people are sharing the plate.