Wine Pairings with Tasting Menus

[Wine Guy 23]

ever get to a new restaurant and look at the menu and see a tasting menu,and the optional wine pairings t go along side? but there are no listings of what you are in for, whether it be creative or unimaginary, dul and worthless. wines you could have ordered by the glass, and bypassed the waisted time with the individual infront of you? horor stories? success stories? what is the route to tae the pairings, and should , you,the guest be offered options?

[jpschust]

ever get to a new restaurant and look at the menu and see a tasting menu,and the optional wine pairings t go along side? but there are no listings of what you are in for, whether it be creative or unimaginary, dul and worthless. wines you could have ordered by the glass, and bypassed the waisted time with the individual infront of you? horor stories? success stories? what is the route to tae the pairings, and should , you,the guest be offered options?

Horror Story: CityZen, the wine pairing rip off of the century. Success story, anything Kathy is doing at 2941. I wish more restaurants would open up to the idea that pairings need not exclusively be wine. In some cases they may be liquor, in some cases they may be beer, in some cases they may not even be alcoholic. Maybe the best set of pairings I've ever had were the pairings to the Grand Tasting Menu at Moto in Chicago.

[Mark Slater]

Horror Story: CityZen, the wine pairing rip off of the century. Success story, anything Kathy is doing at 2941. I wish more restaurants would open up to the idea that pairings need not exclusively be wine. In some cases they may be liquor, in some cases they may be beer, in some cases they may not even be alcoholic. Maybe the best set of pairings I've ever had were the pairings to the Grand Tasting Menu at Moto in Chicago.

And sometimes, the best thing to pair is: NOTHING.

[Pool Boy]

Horror Story: CityZen, the wine pairing rip off of the century. Success story, anything Kathy is doing at 2941. I wish more restaurants would open up to the idea that pairings need not exclusively be wine. In some cases they may be liquor, in some cases they may be beer, in some cases they may not even be alcoholic. Maybe the best set of pairings I've ever had were the pairings to the Grand Tasting Menu at Moto in Chicago.

I forget his name, but the guy at Komi is pretty good at pairings, too. So is (was?) Jeremy at Babbo in NYC.

[hmmboy]

That would be Derek Brown

I forget his name, but the guy at Komi is pretty good at pairings, too. So is (was?) Jeremy at Babbo in NYC.

[Wine Guy 23]

Horror Story: CityZen, the wine pairing rip off of the century. Success story, anything Kathy is doing at 2941. I wish more restaurants would open up to the idea that pairings need not exclusively be wine. In some cases they may be liquor, in some cases they may be beer, in some cases they may not even be alcoholic. Maybe the best set of pairings I've ever had were the pairings to the Grand Tasting Menu at Moto in Chicago.

and the most overly zelous use of creativity, and lack attention to the flavors in the end? fun place to go just once, but not a recurring destination. simply for the flavors on the plate, ar eto manipulated.. but agree they are creative and do offer a up to date pairing

[Wine Guy 23]

That would be Derek Brown

who just got the award for best new young sommelier 2007 wine and spirits.

way to go derek. komi is going to take over the world now i guess

[lackadaisi]

Horror Story: CityZen, the wine pairing rip off of the century. Success story, anything Kathy is doing at 2941.

Mirrors my experience. I have done many wine pairings around the city, and have loved most of them. The only two that were extreme disappointments were CityZen and Inn at Little Washington. CityZen was worse by far, because although Inn at Little Washington was a complete rip-off, it was imaginative. CityZen was both grossly overpriced and boring, and I can't seem to shake the grudge I hold from the experience.

[Wine Guy 23]

Mirrors my experience. I have done many wine pairings around the city, and have loved most of them. The only two that were extreme disappointments were CityZen and Inn at Little Washington. CityZen was worse by far, because although Inn at Little Washington was a complete rip-off, it was imaginative. CityZen was both grossly overpriced and boring, and I can't seem to shake the grudge I hold from the experience.

that is a shame. bc i have th utmost respect for both of the individuals at these establishments, and to hear they were lacking is sad. The Inn is definitely a bit steep when it come to the return, but... in what time frame were you there, and who was it that did your "pairings"? sometimes it is more abou the experience than how expensive the wine is on the menu . and whether the person is going to learn you something or not, and if not, then yes that sucks

[lackadaisi]

that is a shame. bc i have th utmost respect for both of the individuals at these establishments, and to hear they were lacking is sad. The Inn is definitely a bit steep when it come to the return, but... in what time frame were you there, and who was it that did your "pairings"? sometimes it is more abou the experience than how expensive the wine is on the menu . and whether the person is going to learn you something or not, and if not, then yes that sucks

I was at the Inn last November, and I wrote a detailed post about it on the IALW thread, in which I discussed the wines and the experience, in addition to the food. To be fair to whomever is currently at CityZen, that experience was a couple years ago, but it has soured me so that I have yet to return.

[jpschust]

that is a shame. bc i have th utmost respect for both of the individuals at these establishments, and to hear they were lacking is sad. The Inn is definitely a bit steep when it come to the return, but... in what time frame were you there, and who was it that did your "pairings"? sometimes it is more abou the experience than how expensive the wine is on the menu . and whether the person is going to learn you something or not, and if not, then yes that sucks

and I was there about 2.5 mo ago. Not sure to which place you were referring when quoting my post before. If you were talking about CityZen I'd probably agree, if talking about Moto I'd strongly disagree.

[Wine Guy 23]

I was at the Inn last November, and I wrote a detailed post about it on the IALW thread, in which I discussed the wines and the experience, in addition to the food. To be fair to whomever is currently at CityZen, that experience was a couple years ago, but it has soured me so that I have yet to return.

the person at cityzen that you interacted with is now long gone.. understood how experiences are souring.. try the bar first, to acclimate . i agree he was had really poor tabelside demeanor

the person at cityzen that you interacted with is now long gone.. understood how experiences are souring.. try the bar first, to acclimate . i agree he was had really poor tabelside demeanor

ever do any beer pairings?? these can be fun, especially with cheese or chocolate..thoughts

[lackadaisi]

ever do any beer pairings??

I'm not generally a beer person, but several years ago Jlock and I had the privilege of doing the beer pairing dinner at Den Dyver in Bruges, and it was mind-blowingly good. What a fun night!

[jpschust]

ever do any beer pairings?? these can be fun, especially with cheese or chocolate..thoughts

I've been to a number of beer dinners and they've been excellent. I also threw a bbq last year on my back patio and did beer pairings for each course- it was excellent. I can probably find the menu for what I did again if you wish. I also have the last 2 menus from Moto and their pairings here.

[Pool Boy]

That would be Derek Brown

Well, Derek did a great job for us last December at a sparkling beverage dinner. I say beverage, because I think he poured us a bubbling sake even. It matched the dish it was served with well, but I am still just not a sake person. But that still did not distract at all from the experience. Derek is also very gracious as we've BYOWed at Komi as well, and we always try to bring something either aged or unusual. It's fun to share a taste with him, especially if you can figure out how to bring something he's never or rarely experienced...

[Wine Guy 23]

Well, Derek did a great job for us last December at a sparkling beverage dinner. I say beverage, because I think he poured us a bubbling sake even. It matched the dish it was served with well, but I am still just not a sake person. But that still did not distract at all from the experience. Derek is also very gracious as we've BYOWed at Komi as well, and we always try to bring something either aged or unusual. It's fun to share a taste with him, especially if you can figure out how to bring something he's never or rarely experienced...

I dont think Derek was at KOMI in December to aid you in the dinner of sparkling wines. Check the name of your host. And yes, it was a sparkling sake, called Hou Hou Shu, from Nigita Prefecture (i think that is the prefecture for this one). among many other great items

[porcupine]

Well, Derek did a great job for us last December at a sparkling beverage dinner. I say beverage, because I think he poured us a bubbling sake even.

That was Adam Curling. See post #291 in the Komi thread. (I cannot figure out how to link directly to posts.)

[Wine Guy 23]

That was Adam Curling. See post #291 in the Komi thread. (I cannot figure out how to link directly to posts.)

thats right. remembering the Sake, and the delicious 95 Cremant de Jura RD.

[Pool Boy]

That was Adam Curling. See post #291 in the Komi thread. (I cannot figure out how to link directly to posts.)

Well...ok. So now I have another reason to go back to Komi, then...soon!

[dirtymartini]

Am I biased? Had a dinner at Komi in which sherry was the sole pairing (although I think 8 different styles). I was amazed at seemless versitality of this beverage matched with everything from anchovies to chocolate.

[Mark Slater]

I found this website posted on alt.food.wine WinedIn . It might be fun for general ideas, but it flunked the artichoke and asparagus test by recommending chardonnay and no mention of riesling. Take a look. Even funnier, when you ask it which chardonnay, it lists 855 choices.

[Joe Riley]

What pains me the most, Mark, is that fewer and fewer customers of mine really seem to care if a wine will really "match" their menu, or pair well. They know what they like, or dislike, in wine, and they'll drink a young, new world Chardonnay with beef tenderloin if it makes them happy.

That's all well and good, I DO want people to enjoy their wine, but I lament that they are forsaking some truly amazing "pood and fine warings" (as Randall Grahm might say).

Todd Gray at Equinox once made me a black truffle torte stuffed with fois gras, and I had that with some Maculan Torcolato. It was a complete tongue-gasm. Amazing pairing.

I once had what tasted like a completely innocuous German Silvaner Kabinett from a grower who had won a silver medal with the wine in some competition in Germany. To me, it tasted flavorless. Once I paired it with a particular cheese though (and, for the life of me, I will NEVER remember the damned cheese!) it was the catalyst to a palate cataclysm. GORGEOUS, GORGEOUS Silvaner! Completely alive and electric. Suddenly, I really wanted to buy this wine!

There are some food and wine pairings that are must-haves, experiences that should not be neglected. Some roads cry out to be taken in this life, and it's a shame for a wine drinker to avoid some of these, especially the more accessible, less esoteric ones.

And all of them are not to be left up to some computer code grabbing incomplete data from some oddly-assembled food and wine database.

[Mark Slater]

What pains me the most, Mark, is that fewer and fewer customers of mine really seem to care if a wine will really "match" their menu, or pair well. They know what they like, or dislike, in wine, and they'll drink a young, new world Chardonnay with beef tenderloin if it makes them happy.

That's all well and good, I DO want people to enjoy their wine, but I lament that they are forsaking some truly amazing "pood and fine warings" (as Randall Grahm might say).

Todd Gray at Equinox once made me a black truffle torte stuffed with fois gras, and I had that with some Maculan Torcolato. It was a complete tongue-gasm. Amazing pairing.

I once had what tasted like a completely innocuous German Silvaner Kabinett from a grower who had won a silver medal with the wine in some competition in Germany. To me, it tasted flavorless. Once I paired it with a particular cheese though (and, for the life of me, I will NEVER remember the damned cheese!) it was the catalyst to a palate cataclysm. GORGEOUS, GORGEOUS Silvaner! Completely alive and electric. Suddenly, I really wanted to buy this wine!

There are some food and wine pairings that are must-haves, experiences that should not be neglected. Some roads cry out to be taken in this life, and it's a shame for a wine drinker to avoid some of these, especially the more accessible, less esoteric ones.

And all of them are not to be left up to some computer code grabbing incomplete data from some oddly-assembled food and wine database.

Well, I noticed that you can add your favorite pairings to the database. Maybe I'll do that some day in the future for my retirement project.

I've noticed the same thing as you, Joe. People grab the wine list before looking at the menu and go right for the "heavy reds", as they usually say. Some people really don't care about the pairing, they just want to drink what they like. Shiraz and Dover sole. Yum!

[Joe Riley]

Shiraz and Dover sole. Yum!

Yikes....

I once heard from a Los Angeles wine merchant that Frank Sinatra called him up and ordered a case of his most expensive white wine. So the merchant sent him Château D'Yquem. Sinatra called him back, upset, saying that it paired terribly with his lobster (!!!) (I guess he didn't have enough butter to offset it.)

I usually grab the wine list first, then I try to see what specials or aps are going to really pair well with the wine I want.

[Mark Slater]

Yikes....

I once heard from a Los Angeles wine merchant that Frank Sinatra called him up and ordered a case of his most expensive white wine. So the merchant sent him Château D'Yquem. Sinatra called him back, upset, saying that it paired terribly with his lobster (!!!) (I guess he didn't have enough butter to offset it.)

I usually grab the wine list first, then I try to see what specials or aps are going to really pair well with the wine I want.

Frank Sinatra was a regular at the Madison Hotel when I worked there many years ago. The wine that I served him every time he dined there was 1961 Petrus. It was the most expensive wine on the list: $350.

[DanCole42]

What pains me the most, Mark, is that fewer and fewer customers of mine really seem to care if a wine will really "match" their menu, or pair well. They know what they like, or dislike, in wine, and they'll drink a young, new world Chardonnay with beef tenderloin if it makes them happy.

These are the same people who go to their doctor and say, "Prescribe me this. I know what's wrong with me and what meds work. Just prescribe it."

I don't know much about wine, but I do know that in general I prefer reds (at least partly because I prefer the foods that traditionally go with them). But I also know enough to know that I don't know much. If I have access to a top sommelier or an experienced hobbyist, you can be damn sure I'm going to listen to them. Even though I "prefer" reds, I'm going to enjoy myself a lot more if I listen to my oenephiliac betters. Some of the most sublime experiences I've ever had with my mouth have involved whites.

True wisdom derives from knowing only that you know nothing. I must be the smartest man on the planet.

For pairing with pepperoni pizza, the site recommends "meat." I'll defer to Mark on this one... would I drink a 2005 t-bone from a champagne flute or Bordeaux glass?

[mr food]

WE enjoy champagne and popcorn

[Wine Guy 23]

WE enjoy champagne and popcorn

i like to have a nice winter spiced ale, and watch a little Wine Library TV, with the Gary Vaynerchuk.. changin the world! check it...BIG GV wine pairing

[mr food]

whatever you think of the TV shenanigans, WL's customer service is second to none. Their website is also one of the best in the wine business, IMO; very easy to spend big bucks.

[jpbloom]

People grab the wine list before looking at the menu and go right for the "heavy reds", as they usually say.

This cuts both ways. I've noticed an increasing tendency of waitstaff leaning over you shortly after seating asking what wine you'd like and I've been to several places recently that seat you with the wine list but no menus, expecting the wine to be ordered first. They seem shocked that I want to decide what to eat first.

[DonRocks]

Far too many restaurants are doing a tasting menu these days, and not very well, either. Like Tom, I find myself shying away from these more-and-more as the months and years go by, not because I don't want to spend time in the restaurant, but because I can usually put together a better, less expensive tasting menu myself by cobbling together small plates. It's the same reason I generally avoid "suggested wine pairings."

Another take on "suggested wine pairings" - click.

[jpschust]

Another take on "suggested wine pairings" - click.

In thinking about the DC area I can think of a few places that are doing just amazing pairings, but I can also think of a few places I've thought of as a total waste of money. As far as the places doing amazing pairings- Restaurant Eve comes to mind as does Komi and Palena. I'm sure that Vidalia would be on that list, but I can't recall us doing a wine pairing there.

[zoramargolis]

In thinking about the DC area I can think of a few places that are doing just amazing pairings, but I can also think of a few places I've thought of as a total waste of money. As far as the places doing amazing pairings- Restaurant Eve comes to mind as does Komi and Palena. I'm sure that Vidalia would be on that list, but I can't recall us doing a wine pairing there.

Citronelle. Mark Slater. It doesn't get any better.

[edenman]

Good WSJ article. However, it, like the sietsema one, is from the perspective of a person who is very knowledgeable about food and wine. At least for me, as a total wine noob, pairings on a tasting menu allow me to accomplish a good bit of education in one night, and I don't mind that the sommelier might not have time to come chat up my table every ten minutes. Maybe I'll tire of them once I'm older and more seasoned with wine knowledge, but for now the excitement of a great pairing is worth every penny.

[Aphioni]

Good WSJ article. However, it, like the sietsema one, is from the perspective of a person who is very knowledgeable about food and wine. At least for me, as a total wine noob, pairings on a tasting menu allow me to accomplish a good bit of education in one night, and I don't mind that the sommelier might not have time to come chat up my table every ten minutes. Maybe I'll tire of them once I'm older and more seasoned with wine knowledge, but for now the excitement of a great pairing is worth every penny.

call me crazy but i'm enjoying creating my pairings at home. i see what's in the wine fridge, and shoose dinner from there. we had bavarian pork chops with an orange glaze sauce and fried potatoes with onions the other night, and paired it with a very nice Austrian Riesling- fantastic! I wish the bottle was nearby so i could tell you what it was....

i learned so much from reading "Love by the Glass : Tasting Notes from a Marriage" - that no one but your can know what really tastes good to you. i now- i am years late reading it but i loved it, and just catalog what i drinka nd like so i can make my own pairings!