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Mac and Cheese


Mark Slater

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Another vote for smoked gouda. Cheddar, schmeddar.
Oooh la la, fan-say. It turns out the cheese I like best is...Velveeta. Now, I know just mentioning that will probably get me a 5-day ban, but my mom used to make this really creamy smooth mac'n'cheese that used Velveeta. No crunchies, no baking, just melted Velveeta and some milk if it got too thick.

Gourmet? No. Reminds me of my childhood? Yes.

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Gruyere. I just think it screams "MELT ME!". Cheddar? Not so much.

The Screaming Cheese would be a good name for a band.

smoked goat gouda (amish), cave aged cheddar (amish) and brad's (dude) goat curd..............all local all fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!

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Oooh la la, fan-say. It turns out the cheese I like best is...Velveeta. Now, I know just mentioning that will probably get me a 5-day ban, but my mom used to make this really creamy smooth mac'n'cheese that used Velveeta. No crunchies, no baking, just melted Velveeta and some milk if it got too thick.

Gourmet? No. Reminds me of my childhood? Yes.

You've got company, sorta. I've never used Velveeta in mac 'n cheese, but it does make a terrific grilled cheese sandwich. Heresy, I know. But I know what I like.... ;)

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How did I miss this thread?

People who put gruyere in mac and cheese are like people who put provolone on Philly cheesesteaks.

Not saying it doesn't taste great, but if you're going to put gruyere in mac and cheese, then call it something else, like maccherone in sauce mornay or something.

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Cheap American Cheddar, though it has to be white.

(Though a fistful of the orange Gouda Reserve would be wonderful, I bet.)

Parm or Grana.

A little Gorgonzola or whatever blue's around.

A dash of cayenne or Tabasco in twice the amount of white sauce usually required.

Absolutely no bread crumbs on top before baking.

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Cheap American Cheddar, though it has to be white.

(Though a fistful of the orange Gouda Reserve would be wonderful, I bet.)

Parm or Grana.

A little Gorgonzola or whatever blue's around.

A dash of cayenne or Tabasco in twice the amount of white sauce usually required.

Absolutely no bread crumbs on top before baking.

I never thought of it as Mac and Cheese (until this) but every now and again I bake penne with a Gorgonzola/Cream/roux thing, typically laced with sundrides. It fed up a ton of folks the night before my parents' 50th, including many who might have coughed up the pasta if they'd known I was using a blue (azzurro?) cheese.

People who put gruyere in mac and cheese are like people who put provolone on Philly cheesesteaks.

Not saying it doesn't taste great, but if you're going to put gruyere in mac and cheese, then call it something else, like maccherone in sauce mornay or something.

Oh, get grip with your reverse snobbery. First, Cheeze Whiz causes mouth cancer, Eagles' fans and, from what I've seen on South Street at 3AM, sidewalk puking (giving new meaning to the phrase "technicolor yawn"). Second, the best Mac and Cheese I ever ate was made with Gruyere and, oh yeah, vast drifts of black truffle, and it was still Mac and Cheese.
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New tangent:

Cheddar vs. Gruyere

Discuss.

Generally speaking, cheddar. But the mac & cheese my wife and I make is more 'solid' than what some people think mac and cheese is (to them). If you think mac and cheese is supposed to be like the stuff in the blue box (consistency/runniness-wise is what I am talking about here, peeps), then our mac and cheese will seem almost casserole-like to you. But it kicks serious butt, IMO.

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I find that the melting quality of the cheese matters almost as much as the flavor, so in this case I go with Gruyere, but then again I like to use whatever cheese I have on hand. Last week it was a really robust beer cheese (the name escapes me but it was purchased at Cheesetique) mixed with Roth's Private Reserve (one of the nuttiest cheeses I have ever had).

I am sure Dan would call it something else, but frankly I really don't care to me this is what Mac and Cheese is all about, use up what you have and I don’t keep velvetta or cheap cheddar in the house.

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I have to agree with Dan...

Gruyere in Mac N Cheese? Sounds like everyone jumped on the Frenchie bandwagon because it made them sound sophisticated... Truffles... Sounds like the place I use to love that would shave black truffles on their french fries because it made people go oooo ahhhh. That and all of a sudden its now a Black Truffle Pommes Frites that you can charge an extra 14 dollars a side for.

All of these are good, dont get me wrong. But calling it mac n cheese is blasphemy!

White Cheddar for me.. or Fontina with a crusty parm and breadcrumb topping..

People are awful touchy with sarcastic comments around here, this should make it a much more enjoyable stay for me!

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So it is fine to go with the Italian cheeses but if you use a French cheese you are jumping on a bandwagon? Please you just undermined your argument with the fontina and crusty parmesan suggestion.

And by the way few people are Johnathan Swift and can convey sarcasm through writing, and there are few on the interweb let alone this sight who do it well.

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Generally speaking, cheddar. But the mac & cheese my wife and I make is more 'solid' than what some people think mac and cheese is (to them). If you think mac and cheese is supposed to be like the stuff in the blue box (consistency/runniness-wise is what I am talking about here, peeps), then our mac and cheese will seem almost casserole-like to you. But it kicks serious butt, IMO.
I also generally use cheddar and make a casserole type of mac and cheese. That's what I do when all I want is macaroni and cheese with dinner. Other times, I'll make particular recipes that call for other types of cheeses. I like some of these more than others but have discovered over the years that I don't like very strong cheese or too many cheeses in my mac and cheese. The plainer it is, the more satisfying I tend to find it.

I usually use elbows or sometimes small shell pasta in mine. Lately I've discovered that cavatappi (the double elbows) are fabulous for the casserole-style macaroni and cheese. Occasionally I put bread crumbs on top, but I don't really care for that so much as a plain crusty cheese top.

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I also generally use cheddar and make a casserole type of mac and cheese. That's what I do when all I want is macaroni and cheese with dinner. Other times, I'll make particular recipes that call for other types of cheeses. I like some of these more than others but have discovered over the years that I don't like very strong cheese or too many cheeses in my mac and cheese. The plainer it is, the more satisfying I tend to find it.

I usually use elbows or sometimes small shell pasta in mine. Lately I've discovered that cavatappi (the double elbows) are fabulous for the casserole-style macaroni and cheese. Occasionally I put bread crumbs on top, but I don't really care for that so much as a plain crusty cheese top.

When we're not Frenching things up with all that cave-aged Gruyere and the golf ball-sized truffles we keep in the basement, Mrs. B puts bread crumbs on top of the Mac and Cheddar and the whole family fights over who gets them. Taking a slice of the crumbed top wider than the actual amount of macaroni you scoop up is considered claim-jumping and punishment is appropriately severe.

I hesitate to mention this for fear of riling the always easily-riled purists, but putting a little ham into the mix can be pretty satisying, too.

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I hesitate to mention this for fear of riling the always easily-riled purists, but putting a little ham into the mix can be pretty satisying, too.
Leftover cubed ham went into the last batch of macaroni and cheese I made, along with the cavatappi, and it was the best macaroni and cheese I'd made in a while. I used to put ham in more years ago, and I had forgotten how good it is. I believe I also used some bread crumbs last time around. :lol:.
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I usually use elbows or sometimes small shell pasta in mine. Lately I've discovered that cavatappi (the double elbows) are fabulous for the casserole-style macaroni and cheese. Occasionally I put bread crumbs on top, but I don't really care for that so much as a plain crusty cheese top.

We discovered this as well. That shape of pasta rocks for this application. And I'm all about developing the crunchy cheesy crust, too. But NEVER anything but cheese to develop that, thank you very much. :lol:

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I hesitate to mention this for fear of riling the always easily-riled purists, but putting a little ham into the mix can be pretty satisying, too.
Ditto on cooked, drained, chopped spinach. Steamed carrots glazed w butter, honey, powdered ginger and lemon juice on the side.
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When we're not Frenching things up with all that cave-aged Gruyere and the golf ball-sized truffles we keep in the basement, Mrs. B puts bread crumbs on top of the Mac and Cheddar and the whole family fights over who gets them. Taking a slice of the crumbed top wider than the actual amount of macaroni you scoop up is considered claim-jumping and punishment is appropriately severe.

I hesitate to mention this for fear of riling the always easily-riled purists, but putting a little ham into the mix can be pretty satisying, too.

I also like to put cherry tomatoes on top (over the topping of grated cheese but under the crumbs) but that really tweaks the kids. And over everything I pour melted garlic butter. :lol:

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When we're not Frenching things up with all that cave-aged Gruyere and the golf ball-sized truffles we keep in the basement,
Dude, you've been holding out on us.
Mrs. B puts bread crumbs on top of the Mac and Cheddar and the whole family fights over who gets them. Taking a slice of the crumbed top wider than the actual amount of macaroni you scoop up is considered claim-jumping and punishment is appropriately severe.
We use buttered panko with garlic on ours, and the kids fight over the crusty bits. :lol:
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Some of these suggestions would result in a product with a non-orange color. Which makes

the product, technically "not Mac and Cheese". I'm just sayin'. I think there was a symposium

on the subject at the National Pre-Schoolers Convention. :lol:

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1 box Family Size Kraft Macaroni and Cheese Dinner

1 pound ground beef, browned

1 large onion, chopped and sauteed

1/2 pound frozen peas and carrots

1 can Campbells cheddar cheese soup

Brown beef, sauté onion, throw peas and carrots in with boiling pasta, add cheese and cheddar soup, milk to taste, chili powder or paprika to taste.

Voila! Dinner for 4 in 20 minutes for 5 bucks. (In parts of northern New York State this is called "Gumbo").

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1 box Family Size Kraft Macaroni and Cheese Dinner

1 pound ground beef, browned

1 large onion, chopped and sauteed

1/2 pound frozen peas and carrots

1 can Campbells cheddar cheese soup

Brown beef, sauté onion, throw peas and carrots in with boiling pasta, add cheese and cheddar soup, milk to taste, chili powder or paprika to taste.

Voila! Dinner for 4 in 20 minutes for 5 bucks. (In parts of northern New York State this is called "Gumbo").

:lol::):blink::blink::blink::blink::lol:

ETA: You meant to drain pasta peas & carrots before adding the cheese, soup and milk, right ;) ?

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1 box Family Size Kraft Macaroni and Cheese Dinner

1 pound ground beef, browned

1 large onion, chopped and sauteed

1/2 pound frozen peas and carrots

1 can Campbells cheddar cheese soup

Brown beef, sauté onion, throw peas and carrots in with boiling pasta, add cheese and cheddar soup, milk to taste, chili powder or paprika to taste.

Voila! Dinner for 4 in 20 minutes for 5 bucks. (In parts of northern New York State this is called "Gumbo").

I heard Michel Richard is tweaking this recipe for his next cookbook. Frozen Brussels sprouts will be involved.

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So it is fine to go with the Italian cheeses but if you use a French cheese you are jumping on a bandwagon? Please you just undermined your argument with the fontina and crusty parmesan suggestion.

And by the way few people are Johnathan Swift and can convey sarcasm through writing, and there are few on the interweb let alone this sight who do it well.

The inception of "Mac N Cheese" has been traced (and many thought Jefferson was the founding father of the dish) to Paris, where Jefferson brought back his mac mold from after a long standing visit.

On that note, any knowledgeable foodie or chef who has studied the roots of French cuisine (Escoffier) would find that the Italians (Royalty to be exact) are the ones who introduced, the concepts of silverware, napkins, table cloths ect (In a sense fine dining) as well as the many techniques professionals and home cooks use to this day. Escoffier simply gained credit because he chose to write these down, where as in Italy it was tradition and passed down by families.

I undermined nothing, simply based it on traditions in place well before the French took credit for someone else's work.

And it's SITE... But an A for effort.

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On that note, any knowledgeable foodie or chef who has studied the roots of French cuisine (Escoffier) would find that the Italians (Royalty to be exact) are the ones who introduced, the concepts of silverware, napkins, table cloths ect (In a sense fine dining) as well as the many techniques professionals and home cooks use to this day. Escoffier simply gained credit because he chose to write these down, where as in Italy it was tradition and passed down by families.
If I am recalling my folkore, it was Catherine de Medici who taught the Franks to chew with their mouths closed. Presumably the French had time to refine themselves in the 3-400 years between Catherine and Escoffier, so the purifying of transplanted 16th century Italian techniques had been going on for hundreds of years by the time Auguste got a publisher. And Careme, at the very least, got there before him.
And it's SITE... But an A for effort.
I would gently advise to let small typos go around here. Editing will be a full-time job if you do not. :lol:

Back to pasta...it's not altogether certain that the classic macaroni and cheese can attributed to Paris, or the civilizing Medicis. A desultory Google of "macaroni and cheese" and "history" brought 461,000 hits, many of which attribute that pairing to the ancients. The Food Timeline makes an effort to appear scholarly, and gives references that one could look up, if one wished to spend an afternoon doing so. I'll be too busy buttering my casserole dish and sourcing some Grafton.

Second, the best Mac and Cheese I ever ate was made with Gruyere and, oh yeah, vast drifts of black truffle, and it was still Mac and Cheese.
One of the most beautiful sentences I have ever heard (just behind "will you marry me" and "it's a girl/boy," but only just) was uttered by RJ Cooper in reference to macaroni and cheese: "You don't have enough truffles on that." His is the finest restaurant version in Washington, with or without the funky stuff on top. I'd love to get mine half as good.
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On that note, any knowledgeable foodie or chef who has studied the roots of French cuisine (Escoffier) would find that the Italians (Royalty to be exact) are the ones who introduced, the concepts of silverware, napkins, table cloths ect...

And it's SITE... But an A for effort.

I'm doubting that a humble dish (RJ's truffles notwithstanding) like Mac and Cheese passed either through the Medici court or Escoffier's kitchen, just as I doubt that Italian cheese on macaroni is either more or less pretentious than the French stuff (since neither are), regardless of who invented the tablecloth.

More to the point, it's ETC... But an A for effort.

Next round's on me. :lol:

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My 1896 Fannie Farmer cookbook has a recipe for "baked macaroni with cheese" but doesn't mention what kind of cheese. Rather than mixing pasta with Mornay, the macaroni is layered with cheese then a white sauce is poured over. It does call for buttered bread crumbs scattered on top.

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(Waitman @ May 31 2008, 08:45 AM)

Italian chese on macaroni
Heather, the reference is to Leonello d'Este, the marchese of Ferrara whose court assumed prominence in European culinary history, though the preference was for egg pasta and a paste made with bread. Note that our beloved Parmesan sprung from the region this guy ruled.

Granted it's from a later era, but also see description of an elaborate ancestor of baked mac and cheese from the same court: lasagne delle duche di Ferrara. The dish may be "Italian", but the 16th century was incredibly international. You don't need a Catherine de' Medici to explain how Italian French food is and vice versa when you have the French Angevin court that was established in Naples centuries earlier, for example, or the papal court that hied its tail for Avignon, let alone all the foreigners sent abroad for the sake of commerce, banking or diplomacy. They all gotta eat.

And for more of Ferrara's culinary history, here's a relevant synopsis. Note the bread and the truffles: click.

* * *

FYI: One of the wisest professors I ever had pointed out that when you're searching for historical origins, there's always going to be something even earlier that you can point to as a precedent. Therefore, it's usually more useful to explore the meaning of whatever you're dealing with in terms of its own cultural significance. Determining what that culture is and how it fits in tends to be even more interesting.

Even so, that Italian fork? Came from a Byzantine princess whose own culture owes a great debt not only to the glories of its Greco-Roman past, but to neighboring Arabs who also brought a whole lot of civilization to Europe when they established medieval courts in Sicily and Spain.

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I have to agree with Dan...

Gruyere in Mac N Cheese? Sounds like everyone jumped on the Frenchie bandwagon because it made them sound sophisticated... Truffles... Sounds like the place I use to love that would shave black truffles on their french fries because it made people go oooo ahhhh. That and all of a sudden its now a Black Truffle Pommes Frites that you can charge an extra 14 dollars a side for.

All of these are good, dont get me wrong. But calling it mac n cheese is blasphemy!

White Cheddar for me.. or Fontina with a crusty parm and breadcrumb topping..

People are awful touchy with sarcastic comments around here, this should make it a much more enjoyable stay for me!

Well let’s look at the points that you originally made, you claimed that Dan was right when he said that using anything but cheddar was wrong, but then went on to recommend other cheeses that are nowhere near the taste or style of cheddar. So please tell me in your above quote how Dan can be right but yet wrong at the same time? That is why I said that you undermined your argument.

Now let’s focus on your second argument about the Italian influences on French cuisine. As Heather points out the legend is that Catherine de Medici and the cooks that she took with her to the court of King Henry helped to refine French cooking. You seem to argue that this is what would have led to the introduction of Mac and Cheese in France, however the Medici's being Florentines would not have brought pasta with them to France since pasta was classically speaking not part of Florentine cuisine. Then again you made none of those arguments in your original agreement with Dan which was Cheddar being the only cheese that should be used in anything being called Mac and Cheese.

And by the way shouldn’t there be an apostrophe in “dont”

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What's up with the breadcrumbs? I grew up in a breadcrumb-free environment and only use them now to dust cake pans (thank you Maida Heatter for the wonderful tip). Is this an extra dimension of crunchy brown stuff? Because the creamy stuff is made that much better by the contrast of the crunchy brown stuff...

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(Waitman @ May 31 2008, 08:45 AM) Heather, the reference is to Leonello d'Este, the marchese of Ferrara whose court assumed prominence in European culinary history, though the preference was for egg pasta and a paste made with bread. Note that our beloved Parmesan sprung from the region this guy ruled
Oh lord. Serves me right that this was some obscure Italian reference.
What's up with the breadcrumbs?... Is this an extra dimension of crunchy brown stuff? Because the creamy stuff is made that much better by the contrast of the crunchy brown stuff...
Yeah, totally.
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