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Sthitch
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Don, it sounds like you've done some hard work on behalf of the membership for which I, and I presume others, are duly grateful. Now you have to explain precisely what this card does. A discount -- how much, where, when? Is it limited to certain eateries that are friends of ours? Are there other benefits, such as off-the-menu offerings, banquets, newsletters, extended happy hours, chef's tables? I am happy to see this recognition of our group, but I can't help reflecting on your oft-proclaimed injunction against seeking special favors from restaurants. I believe the establishments are glad to recognize those patrons who really care -- and are likely to return -- and it looks like you've come around to that view also. Or am I misreading the whole thing? In any case, I am excited to hear more. So put me down for a low-numbered card.

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Being of Scottish descent, any discount is a good discount ;), but really, discount cards come and go. I remember when the Entertainment Book first came out, in it were many of the places I loved to go and getting a twoferone or a free apt was mighty nice. If the food was good, I would be back; if it wasn't the discount really did not matter as it was still a bad meal. Setting up a dining program is a good thing, hopefully it will encourage others to try new places.

Having a DR Dining card is a neat venture. Since this board prides itself on honesty, openness, and community spirit (and sometimes spirits J) I doubt any small discount or freebee will really impact a review. The posts here often talk about value, some great, some not so great. We all love when a chef sends out a tidbit to our tables, or helps us celebrate a milestone. Take pride in the community we have here.

BTW, the picnic is taking the dining card. Each person presenting the card will receive a clean paper plate, some plastic wear, some plastic ware and a pass to the all you can eat buffet. Napkins cost extra. Don will be there to personally sign cards and has agreed to pose for pictures authenticating the cards in case you want to sell your card on eBay.

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What is the saying about Hell and good intentions? I see this as the possible end of DR as we know it. Don, I'm sure your heart of hearts is in the best of places, but flashing membership cards at establishments is very un-DR. Of course, as you're the namesake and father of us all, who am I to say? But it causes me concern for a modest (in the best sense of that word) institution that I admire.

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It does seem like there should be some more thought given before this idea is implemented. If it is, I would like one, but I see this as a very risky move that could jeopardize the usability of the site. It brings all of the concerns of advertising with none of the money.

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If folks have concerns about this idea, maybe they should P.M. Don (no, not P.M. Dawn) or at least say what their specific concerns are so that Don or whoever else is making this thing happen can take them into consideration. Regardless of what comes of this, it is surely a generous and laborious effort by Don and so I think he deserves as much thoughtfulness in any criticism thereof.

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I fully support this idea. I think it benefits restaurants by driving new business and patrons by driving cheaper weight gain. I for one would NEVER let a review or experience be influenced by special treatment. Crappy food given for free is still crappy food, and VIP treatment doesn't cover it up either. Nor would I eschew a legendary culinary experience just because it's not "in-network."

But maybe I'm misinterpreting what people see as the downside... Lackadaisi, Banco, what are you objections here?

Thanks, Don! This is awesome!

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Don made it perfectly clear that no restaurant should feel obligated to offer anything. This has to be looked at for what it is--an opportunity for restaurants to gain more gain more business with an advertised special that is free to place online. DR members can choose to utilize this as an opportunity to dine out without spending as much money. If you don't like the idea of presenting a card to get a discount, I would suggest not asking for one. Nobody is being forced to take a card and use it.

It's a nice idea. I'm interested to see how many restaurants utilize it.

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But maybe I'm misinterpreting what people see as the downside... Lackadaisi, Banco, what are you objections here?
My concern harkens back to all of the posts discussing people using their membership in DR.com to their advantage to demand better service. Or, on the flip side, the potential for restaurants to give better treatment to those who basically tell them up front that they sometimes write things about restaurants on the internet, for all to view. Even if no member nor restaurant ever acts in this manner, however, how can those that read the reviews know that to be true? There are already issues regarding board favorites; I fear that this would only intensify them.

Please do not take this the wrong way. I am extraordinarily thankful for all of the work that Don puts into this site, including his work on this issue. It is for this reason that I think this should probably be thought about a little more before jumping into it - I spend a great deal of time on this site, and I don't want anything to dilute it. If it were to go forward, however, I would like such a card, and I would hope that it is effectuated with no negative ramifications.

(Originally, I was not going to post anything negative about this on the board because I don't think that it is fair to Don. However, as it has been put up as a foregone conclusion, I think that it would not be right to sit by idly without drawing attention to the threat that I foresee.)

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If folks have concerns about this idea, maybe they should P.M. Don (no, not P.M. Dawn) or at least say what their specific concerns are so that Don or whoever else is making this thing happen can take them into consideration. Regardless of what comes of this, it is surely a generous and laborious effort by Don and so I think he deserves as much thoughtfulness in any criticism thereof.

[No, it's fine to talk about it here - please have a free-flowing discussion, and I'll read and consider everything thoughtfully.]

Replying to Banco's concern, I just don't see the membership cards being brandished as weapons.

Server: "May I get you something to drink?"

Diner: "I'll take a look at the wine list."

<whips out card>

"And when I say medium-rare, I mean medium-rare, mothafucka!"

And to lackadaisi's concern, I don't see any usability aspects changing at all, since the Member Benefits forum is going to remain completely separate. I plan on moderating the dining forums exactly the same way as I always have - I just don't see anything changing.

Will some mom-and-pop Chinese takeout in Gaithersburg have a new thread started because they offered a free hot-and-sour soup with delivery of $10 or more? Not by me they won't. But if someone tries them and likes them? Gosh I hope so. I see this as a win-win situation for everybody.

BTW each membership card will have the member name and number (the member name, NOT the real name), so there's going to be some accountability on the part of the diner.

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I'm a newbie but I think it's great. I don't sense that the folks on this forum are easily swayed by anything but their own hearts, minds and gullets. No one has to use the inducements. But for those of us who might want to do so, I really appreciate the effort on our behalf!

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I'm a newbie but I think it's great. I don't sense that the folks on this forum are easily swayed by anything but their own hearts, minds and gullets. No one has to use the inducements. But for those of us who might want to do so, I really appreciate the effort on our behalf!
Ditto. Well said!
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If folks have concerns about this idea, maybe they should P.M. Don (no, not P.M. Dawn) or at least say what their specific concerns are so that Don or whoever else is making this thing happen can take them into consideration. Regardless of what comes of this, it is surely a generous and laborious effort by Don and so I think he deserves as much thoughtfulness in any criticism thereof.

The decision affects the nature of this board and its membership; posting here about it is therefore entirely appropriate, as has been the "criticism" expressed about it thus far.

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My concern harkens back to all of the posts discussing people using their membership in DR.com to their advantage to demand better service. Or, on the flip side, the potential for restaurants to give better treatment to those who basically tell them up front that they sometimes write things about restaurants on the internet, for all to view. Even if no member nor restaurant ever acts in this manner, however, how can those that read the reviews know that to be true? There are already issues regarding board favorites; I fear that this would only intensify them.

This sums up my reservations about this idea as well. And Don, just because someone does not intend something as a "weapon" does not mean it cannot be interpreted as one. That is lackadaisi's point. We may think a membership card is a convenient freebie that will not affect our judgment of a particular experience (a naive assumption, in my view) but it's clear from the dynamic of customer relations in the service industry that this card, when shown, will mean a great deal more to the proprietors of the patronized establishment. You would be selling your own brainchild short to assume otherwise.

Even without the discount, the card says the same thing as walking into a restaurant and saying "I'm a member of donrockwell.com (and very well might write about my expereince here.)" To me and many others on this board that is a very infra-dig thing to do.

Further, the visual separation of card and non-card threads may seem impermeable in theory, but in practice the card-related commentary will affect the tenor of the entire site. Forums, blogs, and the internet thrive on cross-posting, cross-referencing, and quotation. DR is no exception.

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My concern lies in the conflict of interest between the site's dual roles as host of objective critical observations and as cheerleader for worthy local institutions (an important role, in my view). I predict that the first time somebody walks into a restaurant, flashes the card and then posts a critical review, the restauranteur will be on PM to Don saying "Why am I giving these assholes [insert benefit here] if they're just going to turn around and stab me in the back on line. Either you put an end to that, or I'm pulling out." This, of course puts Don -- and by extension, the membership -- in an awkward position either of compromising their objectivity or of weakening a program designed to bring energy and fun to the board.

In addition, even an asshole like myself is hesitant to accept someone's hospitality and crap all over them in public. Strikes me as bad manners to flash the card, take the discount, and then complain on the internet. But public complaining helps give the board depth and credibility -- iit adds nuance to the conventional wisdom and lifts the board from cheerleader status to serious guide. Discounts are like a bribe not to say bad things, whether or not they're true.

I think any assertion that membership and its priviliges won't sway one's critical judgment -- or the airing thereof -- is disingeuous, at best.

So I probably won't be signing up (not that I can afford to eat out again until 2Q09) because I don't want to compromise my right to bitch. ;)

ETA: I get special treatment in a couple of places and I fuckin' love it, so I'm not as down on that as others. And efforts to expand membership are by definition positive efforts, soafter this post I'm just going to sit back quietly and watch this play itself out.

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This lively discussion has many good points and fair premonitions.

I understand the whole Cheers reference but I think the idea is not to always to go "where everyone knows your name" (even though being a regular has its perks) but to check out some different places that you may have heard about or had some interest in, but needed a nudge to get you to drive there. Trust me I can be nudged to go anywhere but if a place got involved in this program I may be that much more likely to go.

Additionally I feel as though any restauranteur that is enthused about joining into the program should welcome any kind of critisism--good or bad. I view it as a sort of mock-opening. In mock-openings you invite people you know and you may give them something in return for their honest feedback-- if any. So in this case (while very few are actual new restaurants I'm assuming) restauranteurs whom get involved want to hear what guests with distinguished palates and something noteworthy to say, chime in. At the end of the day the world revolves around honesty in this case guests and restaurants will benifit alike.

On a side note I'm sure whichever restaurant chooses to involve themselves in the program will have throughly reviewed it with their staff beforehand so that there are no uncomfortable (do you know who i am?!!--watch your back) situations. AND I'm sure the card (or whatever Don chooses to me the membership form) wont be some flashy, cheesy gismo that would embarass anyone.

I think it sounds exciting! Thanks Don --- speaking from both ends. Allowances only get you so far ;)

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It's a little strange. Imagine if every chef that you ever said something about suddenly could recognize you by face and internet identity.

Personally I would have no problem with that. If I am willing to say it on line I would be willing to tell the chef, server, or manager the same thing, and I include the snarky crap. I am more than happy to tell someone who I am via a PM (for personal reasons, OK because of some total psycho stalker-bitch, I don't use my real name on the board).

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Anyone else getting Sneetches flashbacks? I mean, what if there is a participating restaurant, and a nonparticipating member goes and has either a good or bad experience and posts about it. Are they going to have to preface it with "I am not a cardholder"? Is their screen name going to be another color (another Kuller)?

Look, I'm sure that restaurants are all too happy to attract new diners using this tool. But this creates two classes of users and two classes of restaurants in one swell foop.

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I'll take my card please. I just think it'll be cool to have some sort of ID that has my alter-ego's name on it. I'm conflicted about whether or not I'd use it though. It depends on the deal I guess. And the restaurant.

1/2 price nachos at Citronelle?

Free jello shooter at CityZen?

25% better service at Bebo? :)

I do think that members should have to work a little harder to get the card. A simple "hello" in one thread? ;) Come on, how much effort is it to post, say, 10 times?

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Mainly speaking to Waitman's point, I don't think the majority of participants would feel "stabbed in the back." I think any restaurant that participates in the program will, simply by virtue of the fact that they are part of the forum, be familiar with the sorts of things said here. One thing I've noticed is that, if someone "in the biz" decides to be part of this board, it's to be part of a larger community: and that means dedication, both to their business and to that community, and dedication means quality.

I don't think there are any restaurant chefs, waiters, managers, sommeliers, or busboys who post here from restaurants that are universally despised. Again, I think that's because those posters, by virtue of the fact that they care enough to come here, have a mentality that lends itself to a quality product.

That said, those types of establishments are going to get two types of criticism: 1) constructive, which given the non-moronicness of the restaurant peeps who post here means it's criticism they will WANT to hear in order to improve their product, and 2) criticism from someone who is new new to the board and/or has some bone to pick.

Given the generally positive reviews of those restaurants, it's unlikely their business would be DAMAGED by those sorts of negative reviews - and CERTAINLY not damaged enough to offset the increased business I think the membership cards will bring.

Also, I don't think the MAJORITY (exceptions to everything, but frak exceptions!) of posters here would be crass enough to, as Lackadaisi said, "demand" better service. It's a card that yields special promotions. It's like those $5 off e-mails I get from Hard Times, not a VIP pass into the Admiral's Club.

I think most patrons on the board are classy enough to use the card for what it is, and most restaurateurs here are committed enough to not be damaged (emotionally or financially) by criticism.

-Dan, who was up drinking Two Buck Chuck on a friend's porch until 3AM and that's why he can't express himself with more evocative words than "non-moronicness."

PS - Adding to Waitman's point, I too enjoy special treatment. Not because I feel I deserve it or it makes me feel like a high class douche, but because it makes me feel like I'm part of the community of the restaurant, that I'm welcome. Also, I'm socially insecure, so I just like being made to feel special. ;)

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I don't want to add to the negativity here, but NQD and I both agree that this well-intentioned idea is a big, big mistake.

If enough restaurants choose to participate and offer enough to make this truly worthwhile to members, word will spread beyond the board's current membership. Some will join, get their card, and hang around to talk about food, and become valued members of the community. That's a good thing. But you know that's not all.

Many people will "join" just to get the card, and then go away again, or in some cases hang around just enough to talk about the card and what they're getting out of it. The people "representing" donrockwell.com by flashing their cards around will not be the generally decent, well-mannered, food-obsessed people who make up the current membership. They'll be the people Michael Landrum keeps trying to drive away from his restaurants - self-entitled, arrogant, looking to get something for nothing, and generally being obnoxious while doing it. Restaurants that really need to boost their traffic may be OK with it; others won't be quite so happy, and many will drop out.

If these people do choose to "contribute" to the board, the level of negativity will rise significantly around here. This place functions as well as it does in part because of Don's firm hand as moderator, but in larger part because people are drawn here by shared passions, not by the lure of getting a deal. Change the nature of the membership, and you change the nature of the community.

Don, you've suggested recently that the social side of this little community is struggling. That's fixable, but this will kill it.

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If the cards have member's screen names on them that effectively cancels out the ability to remain anonymous here, at least to the participating establishments. I use my real name here, but many many people don't, for various reasons, and might not want to take the chance that their real identity will be revealed.

A few more questions...

How much personal information will be relayed to the restaurants?

Will participating restaurants be keeping tabs on those who use their cards?

And will member lists and information ever be offered to participating restaurants for things like targeted mailings?

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Also, I don't think the MAJORITY (exceptions to everything, but frak exceptions!) of posters here would be crass enough to, as Lackadaisi said, "demand" better service.

Dan, it's not that users would demand something special. It's that restaurateurs might feel obligated to provide it, asked or unasked, because of the perception of a threat that the card represents. It adds yet another layer to the awkwardness of dining out.

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If these people do choose to "contribute" to the board, the level of negativity will rise significantly around here. This place functions as well as it does in part because of Don's firm hand as moderator, but in larger part because people are drawn here by shared passions, not by the lure of getting a deal. Change the nature of the membership, and you change the nature of the community.

Don, you've suggested recently that the social side of this little community is struggling. That's fixable, but this will kill it.

Well put.
Dan, it's not that users would demand something special. It's that restaurateurs might feel obligated to provide it, asked or unasked, because of the perception of a threat that the card represents. It adds yet another layer to the awkwardness of dining out.
And an excellent point from Mr. Parrott.

I just wanted to add that despite my questions and reservations, I do appreciate what you're trying to do for the members here.

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Dan, it's not that users would demand something special. It's that restaurateurs might feel obligated to provide it, asked or unasked, because of the perception of a threat that the card represents. It adds yet another layer to the awkwardness of dining out.
I understand - I was mainly speaking to what Lackadaisi said. But what objectors have to understand is that this is not something you just flash in any restaurant. Participating establishments have ELECTED to be part of this program. In other words, they've CHOSEN to be flashed these cards. I could understand the objection if this were simply a membership card to be shown at random, but it's not. Participating restaurants know what they're getting in to and, regardless of whether they feel "obligated" to provide something special, it's entirely their choice.
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I understand - I was mainly speaking to what Lackadaisi said. But what objectors have to understand is that this is not something you just flash in any restaurant. Participating establishments have ELECTED to be part of this program. In other words, they've CHOSEN to be flashed these cards. I could understand the objection if this were simply a membership card to be shown at random, but it's not. Participating restaurants know what they're getting in to and, regardless of whether they feel "obligated" to provide something special, it's entirely their choice.

True. But the same guilt/perception calculus applies to whether or not to opt into the program.

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I've been thinking about this and don't really know what I think. I've got a few random thoughts, though.

People who have to join to get the card will have to keep coming back or they won't know what the discounts are. If they're only coming here to get the discounts, the allure of that probably will wear off after a while.

Instead of killing the social aspect entirely (which is a good point and could well be the case), it could reinvigorate the site with an infusion of new people who do have somewhat different interests than the majority of people posting here now. That could be a good thing. And maybe people who are here mostly for the discount offer part of the site will even start meeting up to use their virtual coupons together.

It might be something about calling it a membership card (rather than a coupon generator or something) that's making me a little uncomfortable. I don't think there's any way for this not to create some kind of new stratification among the membership. And it will change the customer-business interaction, possibly in unintended ways. There are undoubtedly people now who throw the name of the site around to get things, though, and this would verify that they do in fact have an affiliation with the site and didn't just see the name in a google search for reviews.

Finally, it's Don's site and one of the things that's always always appealed to me is his sense of his own vision. If this is what his vision says to do now, I'm going to trust that. With the economy in the condition it's in, this could be a very good time to implement a program like this--both for restaurateurs and customers and, I hope, for dr.com. It's a very thoughtful offer, to be sure.

(I do have one question, and maybe I missed it in what I read. Is each person in a dining party going to have to have a card to get the discount, or is that something the businesses will have to decide? I had one of those entertainment books years ago but can't recall how that worked. Unfortunately, I recall having some problems trying to use coupons from that book...)

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I think people have raised alot of good points for and against. To add my two cents, I think that some people may not fully realize how the board is currently used. I know that typically there are tons of lurkers right now who read reviews and don't post. With the membership card they may post once, get a card and never post again - so what, they'll basically be getting a coupon that restaurants have chosen to provide to all comers (albeit those in the know about the board). I don't think that restaurants who don't participate will be shunned - I mean how many times have people bitched about Palena's website or 2 Amys pizza crust being done wrong or any other frequent repeat complaint, yet people still go to them. I know like most people that I love deals and will be more likely to try something if there is a deal, which serves the goal of restaurants bringing in more business and potentially getting new customers. However, if the restaurant food sucks after I try the deal I won't go back often to take advantage of it (think about all of those pizza coupons we all constantly get in the mail, yet I never order from them). As for people demanding better services/specials that are not part of the restaurant card offer that is possible, but easily shot down. The offer is just like a coupon, all you get as a benefit is whatever the restaurant offers - nothing more, nothing less. Also I think that people are forgetting that some DR posters already are regulars or buddies with restaurant staff and probably already get special treatment. I don't say this from personal experience, I'm not in the biz and I don't think I get special treatment anywhere even the few places where I am a regular. But how many times have a read a review that goes...Oh Bob was so great tonight he brought me _____ and then I was happy that Chef Sarah was in and came by for a chat. This never happens to me, which is fine and I don't think use of the card will change that. The only point raised so far that I think could affect the board is pulling back the curtain on some anonymous posts. However, I know I stand by my posts and everyone should be willing to stick by their opinions. Some comments in this thread claim that DR has "objective" posts, that I is nonsense - all the posts are subjective, people have different tastes. Also, the anonymity can easily be reestablished if you just think about the name you post under. So I think this is a great idea and the only potential problem being restaurants and cardholders having miscommunications about what the benefits are.

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This is an opt-in program for restaurants, like Restaurant Week. For a limited time, they will offer a special deal. Only, instead of the deal being offered to everyone, it will be to DR board members only. And board members will identify themselves as such by having a card, in order to get the time-limited deal. WAMU has a similar program for its subscribers. The restaurateurs set the terms. What I don't see it being, like some are suggesting, is DR card holders walking into any place in town, flashing a card and explicitly or implicitly expecting special favors. Or that the sight of the card will implicitly represent the threat of a bad review posted on line, or the promise or expectation of a good review.

There was a self-important, self-promoting wingnut on the local Chowhound board for a while who was doing that--going in to restaurants and announcing that she wrote reviews for Chowhound, and what did the chef recommend that she eat. The word went out pretty fast, and this person was ostracized and eventually slunk away. I do believe that the size and strength of the DR community will quickly act to correct any violation of the group's normative standards of behavior.

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At first, I thought this was a belated April fools joke. After reading Don's explanation, I realized this was real. I returned to the original thread and read with great interest. Many valid concerns have been raised and some have been addressed. However, I think that many are missing the larger issue - that this merely formalizes what has been an informal practice since very near the inception of this board.

Many industry people that participate on the board have advertised special events here, offered discounts here, posted new menus here, etc. Some of those offerings were only available to DR members. Anyone recall "Legacy Libations" night, or free or reduced corkage for DR members, or any of Dean Gold's generous DR only specials? I am sure there are others that I can't recall at the moment.

Viewed in that context, and with the idea that it is a voluntary program for businesses, I say bravo, Rocks!

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At first, I thought this was a belated April fools joke. After reading Don's explanation, I realized this was real. I returned to the original thread and read with great interest. Many valid concerns have been raised and some have been addressed. However, I think that many are missing the larger issue - that this merely formalizes what has been an informal practice since very near the inception of this board.

Many industry people that participate on the board have advertised special events here, offered discounts here, posted new menus here, etc. Some of those offerings were only available to DR members. Anyone recall "Legacy Libations" night, or free or reduced corkage for DR members, or any of Dean Gold's generous DR only specials? I am sure there are others that I can't recall at the moment.

Viewed in that context, and with the idea that it is a voluntary program for businesses, I say bravo, Rocks!

I was going to make this point but couldn't think of any examples. It was just more of vague idea than any kind of statement I could back up. Thanks.
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I am not really sure what to think about this whole thing. First of all, if there is this much back and forth discussion (negative v. positve) before this plan is even put into place, I think it spells trouble down the road.

I think the special section for businesses to post about specials, events, etc.. is a great idea. However, I think when a business is offering these promotions it should be open to EVERYONE, not just Dr. com members. If I am serving 1/2 price nachos on Tuesday night, why shouldn't that hold true for every customer that walks into my establishment. I guess I just don't like the idea of getting special priviledge because you post on an internet web board.

Here is the other problem. As I stated above, maybe I (Artisan Confections) am not going to participate in this "rewards program" for for that very reason. Now I feel like my establishment (because I am not participating) is then somehow blacklisted and I no longer look like a DR.com team player. I think this will be a problem for other establishments as well if they decide not to use the membership cards.

What I have always liked about this forum is that is has been a community of like-minded folks that have an interest in good food. I don't think that because you are a member of this "club" that you should in anyway receive preferential treatment. I will be happy to talk about specials, new flavors, events, etc., but I think those should be open for everyone.

I think this all started with good intentions by Don, but I just have a feeling that it will send the Dr.com forum in a different direction. Just my $.02...

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I don't want to interfere with the flow of this discussion, but wanted to address these questions:

How much personal information will be relayed to the restaurants?

None. In fact, no contact needs to be made with the restaurants at all, unless something they wrote is unclear.

Will participating restaurants be keeping tabs on those who use their cards?

That's entirely up to them.

And will member lists and information ever be offered to participating restaurants for things like targeted mailings?

Never. On April 15, 2005, I wrote in this post that "your information will remain private and not shared with anyone, ever." Those words are pretty clear, I think.

And to address two other wild rumors I've now heard:

1. I'm looking to sell the website.

2. I plan on divulging member information to the buyer.

Nothing I hear in the rumor mill surprises me any more, but regardless: Both of these are false.

Carry on...

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To address the issue of restaurants being able to put faces and names to avatars, I'm here to tell you that it's already done. I made a reservation at a DC restaurant using OpenTable, with my own name and information. After dinner, I posted about it here, with a minor complaint about one dish. The next day, I got a phone call from the restaurant apologizing for the dish and offering to comp it for me if/when I came back. It was done with the best of intentions and with only appreciation for the fact that I'd discussed our meal here. However, and I hope I don't offend the person who called me, if he reads this, it was a little...disturbing. A little too familiar, perhaps? I think it was getting a phone call that did it, rather than a response via PM or something board-centric. It fully rent the veil between my real life and my Walrus life. I was also in another, well-beloved, restaurant earlier this month, and we were discussing means of contact with someone there. I suggested that he PM me on DR.com and provided my Walrus name -- his response? "I know who you are." Have no allusions -- you are known! So be nice ;)

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