Founding Farmers, Downtown, Potomac, and Tysons Corner

[DonRocks]

40 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Zero stars from Tom Sietsema. (How often does the Post show pictures of half-eaten food in its reviews?)

Count me among those who consider Founding Farmers overrated but still enjoyable on occasion. It's served me well as a crowd-pleaser when I've brought in guests with dissimilar and/or picky tastes.

I had to stop reading after the words "Shake Shack."

[Kev29]

1 hour ago, DonRocks said:

I had to stop reading after the words "Shake Shack."

It gets worse. I appreciate the take-down of the place but it's done in Sietsema's classic flyover dweeb style.

[DonRocks]

56 minutes ago, Kev29 said:

It gets worse. I appreciate the take-down of the place but it's done in Sietsema's classic flyover dweeb style.

Oh, I absolutely didn't mean to imply the review was "bad," but I was jarred into remembering that we (sometimes) have very different thoughts about places. 

Still, I didn't exactly love my meal at the Tysons Corner outpost last Spring.

[Kev29]

55 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

Oh, I  absolutely didn't mean to imply the review was "bad," but I was jarred into remembering that we (sometimes) have very different thoughts about places.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrFO702T7Sg

[DanielK]

I am dragged to the Potomac location every so often. Not sure I'd give it zero stars, but no higher than 1. It's bad across the board, starting with the cocktails.

[mtureck]

1 hour ago, Kev29 said:

It gets worse. I appreciate the take-down of the place but it's done in Sietsema's classic flyover dweeb style.

Which means what exactly?

[Kev29]

Just now, mtureck said:

Which means what exactly?

"Had my waiter inquired, my posse would have told him the swamp posing as shrimp and grits was about as close to the southern model as rap is to opera."

[Simul Parikh]

Pretty scathing review! Fun to read. He's right. It's pretty much the definition of mediocre.

But .. I didn't like the comparison between bad food/good food and rap/opera. Touched a nerve. "Hamilton", anyone?

EDIT: funny Kev29 mentioned the same part that really bugged me. 

[Bob Wells]

On 4/1/2016 at 5:52 PM, lion said:

Where is going to be in Reston?

At the Wiehle Metro. Wonder if the developer is reconsidering?

[DonRocks]

On 6/8/2016 at 4:57 PM, Bob Wells said:

At the Wiehle Metro. Wonder if the developer is reconsidering?

Not a chance. No single review could have any effect on this chain, which is no worse than any of fifty others. Oh, there might be a two-percent drop in business at the DC location for a week, but things don't work like they did twenty years ago (although they sort-of did then, too) - Founding Farmers is primed for big growth, mark my words. 

Don't believe me? 

Oct 15, 2014 - "Guy's American Kitchen Is One Of NYC's Highest Grossing Restaurants" by Nell Casey on gothamist.com

Pete Wells' review came out almost two years earlier, and this restaurant was the #26 highest-grossing independent restaurant in the country, and Founding Farmers is markedly better than Guy's American Kitchen.

Restaurant critics are big fish in a very small pond - the real money is not in culinary temples; Founding Farmers in Tysons is probably pulling in $15 million a year.

When they opened as Agraria at Washington Harbor, I had my doubts as to whether or not they'd make it; those doubts have been greatly lessened. Once you've got name recognition (refer to Matchbox, as well as several area restaurant groups), inertia kicks in, and it becomes a matter of strategic planning and negotiating real estate.

All this said, I prefer the small pond. You just cannot believe how many people say they're "foodies," but dine at places like Founding Farmers - the masses don't recognize the difference, I'm sad to say. Yelpers, for example, think they're foodies, but they're not - they are the very definition of "the masses," completely duped into thinking that they're something special.

[Bob Wells]

2 hours ago, Simul Parikh said:

Pretty scathing review! Fun to read. He's right. It's pretty much the definition of mediocre.

But .. I didn't like the comparison between bad food/good food and rap/opera. Touched a nerve. "Hamilton", anyone?

EDIT: funny Kev29 mentioned the same part that really bugged me. 

I didn't read rap:opera as bad music:good music (or vice versa), just as two things that are very far apart, but I agree it was a poor analogy. 62 Mets vs 27 Yankees, perhaps?

[DonRocks]

3 minutes ago, Bob Wells said:

I didn't read rap:opera as bad music:good music (or vice versa), just as two things that are very far apart, but I agree it was a poor analogy. 62 Mets vs 27 Yankees, perhaps?

I agree with this.

[Pat]

40 minutes ago, Bob Wells said:

I didn't read rap:opera as bad music:good music (or vice versa), just as two things that are very far apart, but I agree it was a poor analogy. 62 Mets vs 27 Yankees, perhaps?

That's what I thought too--rap and opera were as far apart as he could conceptualize--and I wondered if someone was going to attempt to point out similarities between the two genres.

[Simul Parikh]

Genre and order seemed a bit specific ... Was just re-reading Don's series of posts from Ravi Kabob. Interesting what we choose to read into or ignore. I may be wrong. Bet the comments section will reflect it ..

Edit: I've been reading a lot about unconscious biases in clinical medicine, and it's something we do without thinking. A landmark study in the NEJM showed physicians treating white patients differently than black patients. And it led to a lot of changes. I didn't mean to say he is racist - no way! I'm a huge fan of the guy, and loves his q and a, and I mostly agree with his reviews. I just think language is subtle and important and when you see that sort of thing often ("an eccentric patient" vs "a patient with difficulty with medication adherence" vs "a difficult/non-compliant patient"; or "a combative patient" vs "a patient with mental status alteration"), you can pick up subtle biases. Anyway, point is, I'm a big Tom Sietsma fan, I'm not deleting my post, but I'm probably wrong and reading too much into it - because I'm learning a lot about that stuff right now, and I like language. 

[Dr. Delicious]

I, for one, remain excited for my return trip in a couple weeks to the Tysons outpost for brunch.

[Poivrot Farci]

The entire concept, mantra, ethos, whatever of FF is completely and reliably overlooked by the wilted critic who overlooks the bullshit most restaurants serve but is not capable of holding FF's roller-skates to the fire by ever thinking to question where their "farmer" driven food comes from, ostensibly because he does not know, or after 16 years of being a sycophant weather-vane, care.  It  helps, exponentially,  to read the shittyly written review with the preternaturally douchey Erlich Bachman voiceover.

[DonRocks]

9 hours ago, Simul Parikh said:

Bet the comments section will reflect it ..

This review is getting more front-page play and hype than any in my recent memory - as if they're reveling in it - and hence quite a few comments: as of right now, there are nearly 600. I haven't given them a thorough reading, but the comments seem to be the usual: people fighting among themselves and calling each other names; there may be some criticism in there about that analogy, but I can't bring myself to wade through the swamp.

When, oh when, will someone with some investment money realize that we *are* essentially a giant comments section; just one without people attacking one another. You all may be anonymous to the outside world, but you're more often than not on a first-name basis with me - that's how I can vouch for your credibility and expertise.

[Kev29]

5 hours ago, DonRocks said:

This review is getting more front-page play and hype than any in my recent memory - as if they're reveling in it

Bandito likey!

Washington Post’s ‘Bandito’ Tool Optimizes Content For Clicks (Wall Street Journal)

[Kev29]

15 hours ago, Bob Wells said:

I didn't read rap:opera as bad music:good music (or vice versa), just as two things that are very far apart, but I agree it was a poor analogy. 62 Mets vs 27 Yankees, perhaps?

It could be read as FF swamp:shrimp/grits.:.rap:opera. But I won't really make that argument, he was just being a goober (especially with the antiquated White term "rap").

[Bart]

11 hours ago, Poivrot Farci said:

The entire concept, mantra, ethos, whatever of FF is completely and reliably overlooked by the wilted critic who overlooks the bullshit most restaurants serve but is not capable of holding FF's roller-skates to the fire by ever thinking to question where their "farmer" driven food comes from, ostensibly because he does not know, or after 16 years of being a sycophant weather-vane, care.  It  helps, exponentially,  to read the shittyly written review with the preternaturally douchey Erlich Bachman voiceover.

I never know what you're talking about but I love the "Silicon Valley" reference.

[DaveO]

13 hours ago, Poivrot Farci said:

The entire concept, mantra, ethos, whatever of FF is completely and reliably overlooked by the wilted critic who overlooks the bullshit most restaurants serve but is not capable of holding FF's roller-skates to the fire by ever thinking to question where their "farmer" driven food comes from, ostensibly because he does not know, or after 16 years of being a sycophant weather-vane, care.  It  helps, exponentially,  to read the shittyly written review with the preternaturally douchey Erlich Bachman voiceover.

Wow!!!

I for one appreciate Sietsema's reviews.  He writes for an enormous audience including an immense number of out of town visitors, visits restaurants more than once, brings others to taste a variety of dishes and gives a written overview that more and more seems to blend the more cutting edge perspectives with those for a less discerning eye.  He is writing for the major media source in the region and needs and should appeal to a wide audience.  (I met his predecessor at the Post and got a "rundown" years ago from a Post employee of "standards" they consider for the articles).  It seems to me he sticks to those standards.  When I read the reviews I get an overview that is satisfying.  I don't dwell on or care pro or con about his verbiage.   I frankly don't pay enough attention to know or recall if he focuses on farm fresh foods.

And your writings experience and knowledge express more about food than I'll ever get close to touching.  (that piece about Frank Ruta was truly appreciated!!!!!) (the piece about vegetarian risotto was appreciated as I believe the best risotto's I've had (including vegetarian) were by a friend similarly trained in Italy, reportedly by old masters) (btw we worked very hard to bring in local ingredients from specific providers about which I knew NOTHING...ha ha)

I've been to one FF one time.  Wasn't wowed.   

Zero Stars.  Outrageous.  Over 600 comments.  That recent Post piece about service in David Chang's restaurant...had what 1200 or 1700 comments (similarly within a day or two).  The Post has a big audience.(and opinionated like DR but a larger audience )

It seems to me rave reviews by the Post still absolutely have remarkably powerful impact.  Do terrible reviews have a similar impact?  Guess we might find out.  I think closing Metro at 12 midnight will have a bigger impact across the board.

 

[DonRocks]

9 minutes ago, DaveO said:

It seems to me rave reviews by the Post still absolutely have remarkably powerful impact.  

Only repeated raves over an extended period of time have powerful (that is, lasting) impact (e.g., Jaleo, Rasika).

[dz50]

19 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Not a chance. No single review could have any effect on this chain, which is no worse than any of fifty others. Oh, there might be a two-percent drop in business at the DC location for a week, but things don't work like they did twenty years ago (although they sort-of did then, too) - Founding Farmers is primed for big growth, mark my words. 

It's like movie reviews and and box office money.  often movie critics panning a blockbuster movie has minimum effect on the overall box office (see Batman v. Superman).  

[hopsing]

He gave La Tagliatella a bad review and that place went out of business, probably because the review was true.

 

I'm surprised when positive reviews don't yield more business.  Banh Ta is the darling of the banh mi crowd and has had a lot of press in the past few months.  Yet I never see anyone in there, even on a Friday lunch hour.

[jpbloom]

20 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Not a chance. No single review could have any effect on this chain, which is no worse than any of fifty others. Oh, there might be a two-percent drop in business at the DC location for a week, but things don't work like they did twenty years ago (although they sort-of did then, too) - Founding Farmers is primed for big growth, mark my words. 

For sure.  Big portions, a mass appeal menu, the appearance that this is wholesome American food - FF will do just fine.  I'm betting it will do great in Reston.

I've only eaten at FF once, downtown a year or two ago.  Based on that experience, this is a spot on review.  I have no desire to give it a second shot.

 

[Poivrot Farci]

FF makes hay over their claim that they get their food from family farms.  Cargill is also family owned, and did $120 billion in sales last year.  So either FF deserves a modicum of kudos beyond the mashed potatoes (what family farm are they getting potatoes from in April/May?), maybe even ½ a kudo for making a conscientious effort to rely on domestic, possibly regional smaller farms for their products or they should be excoriated for using commodity, like most do, in a manner that doesn’t smack of a smarmy grade-school English class assignment.  If TS and the top brass at the WashPo insist on running trendy, cherry-picked killshots on low hanging fruit, then either save it for Labor Day weekend to get the grill started or take some lessons from a premium dress-down marksman who has a style and perspicacity.

Quote

Witness a skillet of cornbread, bright with corn kernels but also doughy in the center, and pickled “seasonal” vegetables that turn out to be mostly sliced cucumbers.

It’s a bit early for corn and, well, cucumbers are harbingers of spring.  What small family farms are providing the beef, pork, chicken and vegetables and are the shrimp domestic?  Perhaps the lines reflect consumer consciousness about where their food comes from and if they are being duped, that is where the scoop is.  If TS is wearing a consumer advocate cap, then such smug “reviews” should at least inform and educate the consumer rather than insulting their considerable patronage only to satisfy a withering ego with click-bait, especially with the Michelin man rolling who will raise the bar and perhaps question the city standard bearer’s credibility.

[Kibbee Nayee]

I am not a fan of FF, but I eat at the Tysons location with other business colleagues because it's convenient. And let's give them some credit for turning an otherwise difficult dining location into a thousands-of-covers success.

What amazes me the most is how many people say a mindless "It was good!" when asked about their meal at FF. They probably forgot what they ordered, or had no idea how it was prepared and what considerations went into composing the dish or plating it or saucing it. Just an empty "It was good!" and back they go again and again.

 

[sandynva]

14 hours ago, Poivrot Farci said:

It’s a bit early for corn and, well, cucumbers are harbingers of spring.  What small family farms are providing the beef, pork, chicken and vegetables and are the shrimp domestic?  Perhaps the lines reflect consumer consciousness about where their food comes from and if they are being duped, that is where the scoop is.

wasn't there a piece a couple of years ago on how they weren't as farm-to-table as they seemed? there's this one, but i thought there was a different one as well.

Dec 7, 2009 - "Think You're Dining 'Green?' Menus Won't Always Tell You" by Jane Black on washingtonpost.com

[jayandstacey]

14 hours ago, Poivrot Farci said:

FF makes hay over their claim that they get their food from family farms.  Cargill is also family owned, and did $120 billion in sales last year.  So either FF deserves a modicum of kudos beyond the mashed potatoes (what family farm are they getting potatoes from in April/May?), maybe even ½ a kudo for making a conscientious effort to rely on domestic, possibly regional smaller farms for their products or they should be excoriated for using commodity, like most do, in a manner that doesn’t smack of a smarmy grade-school English class assignment.  If TS and the top brass at the WashPo insist on running trendy, cherry-picked killshots on low hanging fruit, then either save it for Labor Day weekend to get the grill started or take some lessons from a premium dress-down marksman who has a style and perspicacity.

It’s a bit early for corn and, well, cucumbers are harbingers of spring.  What small family farms are providing the beef, pork, chicken and vegetables and are the shrimp domestic?  Perhaps the lines reflect consumer consciousness about where their food comes from and if they are being duped, that is where the scoop is.  If TS is wearing a consumer advocate cap, then such smug “reviews” should at least inform and educate the consumer rather than insulting their considerable patronage only to satisfy a withering ego with click-bait, especially with the Michelin man rolling who will raise the bar and perhaps question the city standard bearer’s credibility.

Yeah, this is kind of the point I was making up-thread, a while (2 years?) ago.   FF has figured out how to get the green credit while not actually committing.   That's it.

We would generally think that credit would come from simply providing information and being truthful.   So someone like Dean lists his food sources on his menu.  Turns out, that appeals to a minority but doesn't hit the homerun (it doesn't hurt much either...I'll explain...) 

Instead, FF teaches us that a vague story allows consumers to paint their own perfect picture.   And they provide the "paint" in SPADES - the rough wood on the walls ("oh, that must be from the older dairy barn in the pasture out past the willow tree!") to the old-timey water bottles ("yes, frugality is an important farm ethic!") to the checkered shirts worn by the staff ("I don't know why farmers wear tablecloths but I know a farmer when I see one!")

By not being specific, they get credit for being PERFECT.   Because generally people want to construct that perfect story in their minds.    

Not to criticize Dean at all (or anyone who provides specifics...) but here's maybe some of the mentality behind indicating "sourced from Bob's farm in La Plata, MD" on a menu:  "Yeah, La Plata was hot and kind of plain when I was down there.   This restaurant is nice, upscale...I hope they cleaned everything well first..." or that kind of thing.   There's no paint to help the story along and the specificity of something like La Plata makes it real - and real isn't ever prefect.  La Plata just isn't Normal Rockwell's Farm no matter how nice it may be. 

I also don't think it deserved 0 stars.  I was at a restaurant that seated me not more than 5 feet from a 5 gallon bucket of grey water with trash floating in it.  The food was lukewarm, and the A/C was broken...that's the kind of crap that is worthy of shutting the doors.   Yeah, I haven't mentioned the quality of the food...but what difference does it make if you're staring at stagnant dirty water?   I'm not saying FF has good food (though I didn't say it was bad in my posts a while back...) rather that I continue to be fascinated in how the concept they've brought to market is hitting a grand slam. 

And I have to suspect that somehow, THAT's what has Tom all fired up.   We (Washingtonians in general) are suckers for this stuff. 

[notquiteanonymous]

I've had dinner once and lunch once at this place.  The latter was acceptable, if not at all memorable (in line with Kibbee Nayee's comment); the former was so appalling that I won't ever go here without some exigent circumstance pushing me (which was the case for the business lunch organized by others).  I think this zero star review, reminiscent of Pete Wells' takedown of Guy Fieri, is more a result of pushing back against the same kind of hubris and hype that Fieri's place put forward.  If it was a place that had dumpster water hanging out in a corner, it wouldn't be worth the review.  But because it suckers so many people in, there's some value in slamming it, particularly when there are so many other options in this city that do "farm-to-table" so much better than this.  I found the review amusing, consistent with my experiences, and don't mind that it's perhaps a little over the top, since it's worth batting down how much hype it gets.  

[jayandstacey]

41 minutes ago, notquiteanonymous said:

If it was a place that had dumpster water hanging out in a corner, it wouldn't be worth the review.  But because it suckers so many people in, there's some value in slamming it, particularly when there are so many other options in this city that do "farm-to-table" so much better than this.  I found the review amusing, consistent with my experiences, and don't mind that it's perhaps a little over the top, since it's worth batting down how much hype it gets.  

This is my tried-and-true "foist rule."

I don't go seeking the ethics/stance/positions/policies of a company (or candidate, or friend, or really anything) ...BUT... if they are going to foist it upon me, if they are going to put it in my face by the media, their menu, their symbols or otherwise - then they risk that I might either disagree with it or pause to verify it.   And that may result in me never being a customer again for reasons that have nothing to do with the company's product.

And yes, I agree.  Definitely worth the review.  I guess there can be different ways to achieve 0 stars, and that's just fine! 

[DaveO]

1 hour ago, jayandstacey said:

Yeah, this is kind of the point I was making up-thread, a while (2 years?) ago.   FF has figured out how to get the green credit while not actually committing.   That's it.

We would generally think that credit would come from simply providing information and being truthful.   So someone like Dean lists his food sources on his menu.  Turns out, that appeals to a minority but doesn't hit the homerun (it doesn't hurt much either...I'll explain...) 

Instead, FF teaches us that a vague story allows consumers to paint their own perfect picture.   And they provide the "paint" in SPADES - the rough wood on the walls ("oh, that must be from the older dairy barn in the pasture out past the willow tree!") to the old-timey water bottles ("yes, frugality is an important farm ethic!") to the checkered shirts worn by the staff ("I don't know why farmers wear tablecloths but I know a farmer when I see one!")

By not being specific, they get credit for being PERFECT.   Because generally people want to construct that perfect story in their minds.    

Not to criticize Dean at all (or anyone who provides specifics...) but here's maybe some of the mentality behind indicating "sourced from Bob's farm in La Plata, MD" on a menu:  "Yeah, La Plata was hot and kind of plain when I was down there.   This restaurant is nice, upscale...I hope they cleaned everything well first..." or that kind of thing.   There's no paint to help the story along and the specificity of something like La Plata makes it real - and real isn't ever prefect.  La Plata just isn't Normal Rockwell's Farm no matter how nice it may be. 

I also don't think it deserved 0 stars.  I was at a restaurant that seated me not more than 5 feet from a 5 gallon bucket of grey water with trash floating in it.  The food was lukewarm, and the A/C was broken...that's the kind of crap that is worthy of shutting the doors.   Yeah, I haven't mentioned the quality of the food...but what difference does it make if you're staring at stagnant dirty water?   I'm not saying FF has good food (though I didn't say it was bad in my posts a while back...) rather that I continue to be fascinated in how the concept they've brought to market is hitting a grand slam. 

And I have to suspect that somehow, THAT's what has Tom all fired up.   We (Washingtonians in general) are suckers for this stuff. 

That is interesting.  Lots of businesses depend on some kind of marketing hype or vagueness.  In many businesses, not just restaurants.  Cripes on food, the govt sort of assists this via allowing all kinds of vague descriptors.  

I've been to FF once.  It was okay.  I didn't find it outstanding. But it wasn't horrible There seemed to be a disconnect between the image (fancy) and the food quality (meh and undistinguished).  I think the 0 stars is pretty cool.  And obviously generates a lot of controversy.  

[DonRocks]

Founding Farmers replies on Facebook.

See all the comments? Those are "the masses."

[Kibbee Nayee]

27 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

Founding Farmers replies on Facebook.

See all the comments? Those are "the masses."

Those are the exact same people, who when I ask them how was their meal at FF, say "it was good!" Ask them to describe the ingredients, flavor combinations, seasonings, sauces and presentation, and they give you a look like they just sat on a squid....

[jayandstacey]

26 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

Founding Farmers replies on Facebook.

See all the comments? Those are "the masses."

They sat, in one location, 575,000 guests in one year?!??!   That's 1575 people served every day of the year.  Whoa...

[mtureck]

24 minutes ago, Kibbee Nayee said:

Those are the exact same people, who when I ask them how was their meal at FF, say "it was good!" Ask them to describe the ingredients, flavor combinations, seasonings, sauces and presentation, and they give you a look like they just sat on a squid....

What's wrong with that? Why should someone have to justify to you, or anyone else, why they like something? They're not sophisticated enough to have a valid opinion?

You don't have to know a thing about cinematography, acting, or editing to enjoy a movie, and you don't have to know anything about food to enjoy a meal.

[MarkS]

I eat at Founding Farmers on occasion when someone else arranges to buy me a meal there. In fact I'll be there next Monday night and try to eat sensibly and well.  Sort of like Chef Geoff's  same food different location.

[DonRocks]

An orgasm, to a baboon, is every bit as real and legitimate as it was to Leonardo da Vinci.

16 minutes ago, mtureck said:

What's wrong with that? Why should someone have to justify to you, or anyone else, why they like something? They're not sophisticated enough to have a valid opinion?

You don't have to know a thing about cinematography, acting, or editing to enjoy a movie, and you don't have to know anything about food to enjoy a meal.

[Nobody here needs to justify anything to anyone.]

[DaveO]

1 hour ago, jayandstacey said:

They sat, in one location, 575,000 guests in one year?!??!   That's 1575 people served every day of the year.  Whoa...

that is what I said.

Something else.  There are a fair number of restaurants in the region that do huge volumes.  They also avoid a lot of popular press, review commentary, foodie commentary and bloggers etc.   Some are expense account restaurants, restaurants that include enormous numbers of travelers, are used for huge volumes of parties, and other uses that relate to huge crowds. (I get some of that info, and I bet others here also get some of that info)   Could be that FF falls into (A.) some of the above categories AND (B.) gets referenced in the popular press and gets reviews.  If so, looks like FF is winning on (A.) and for the time being losing on (B.)

[mare22204]

My first experience was with FF in DC.  I just remember the zoo that it was for Sunday brunch.  I don't remember disliking anything about my meal, but I guess nothing specific stood out, either.  I've had dinner at FFB with family and we all enjoyed our meal.  Brunch buffet at FF in Tyson's was ok.  I wouldn't cross it off my list for a future visit.

[MarkS]

Ate at FF Tysons.  Menu is all over the place and uninspired.  I had the crab cakes, no lump crab in there though advertised as lump with no filler.

[Destruya]

I'm reminded of something that Don once wrote about Artie's, which I disagreed with him on, that Artie's was "the average person's idea of a good restaurant."  But in retrospect, it's honestly kinda true (in a way) - the GAR restaurants serve good, quality food, but aside from their daily specials, they have less menu variety or innovation than an Applebee's or Denny's.  But you go to a GAR restaurant because they do what they do very well, and as we've seen, the chefs take what they've learned/had *drilled* into them and filter it out into the community.  I'd take Artie's filet over Morton's and Ruth Chris' any day, and it's cheaper, too.

Founding Farmers is one of those restaurants that actively capitalizes and depends on Don's original comment about Artie's - it prices its offerings high enough and locates itself in high-income ~up and coming~ and/or ~established~ locations to trick diners into thinking the restaurant is better than it is, and worse off, it actively rips off the consumer by assuming they're idiots, like serving crab cakes with no lump crab, or doing a worse job locally-sourcing *local ingredients* than Silver Diner.

Having a good name doesn't hurt them, either.

EDIT (to illustrate the point): http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/food/article/20782268/after-a-zerostar-review-founding-farmers-is-still-packed

[DaveO]

--> back to this review thing.  I had an interesting anecdotal conversation with a grad of the bar school.  The grad is a recent college grad and smart.  He landed and accepted a position with FF.  He had eaten there and enjoyed it.  I asked him about the 0 stars review.   He didn't have the faintest knowledge about it.  Not an iota.  He probably never pays attention or listens or reads a whit of info about food and restaurants.  

He is probably in the vast majority of the population.  

[Gadarene]

Depressing.

[fenst001]

Best milkshakes in DC metro area can be found at Founding Farmers.

[Kibbee Nayee]

5 minutes ago, fenst001 said:

Best milkshakes in DC metro area can be found at Founding Farmers.

Wow, now THAT'S a bold statement. In one simple sentence, and with your first post, you managed to throw under the bus all of Silver Diner, Ted's Bulletin, Shake Shack, Good Stuff Eatery, Jeff Tunk's Burger Tap and Shake, Bobby's Burger, newly-arrived in Ashburn Habit Burger, and about a dozen other serious milkshake establishments.

Welcome to the donrockwell.com community....

[fenst001]

I've had the milk shakes at Ted's Bulletin and Shake Shack.    There is still none better than at Founding Farmer's.

[bookluvingbabe]

We ended up here after an outing last weekend.  Our original plan had been Sugo but they had no working a/c.  Faced with walking next door v. walking across the parking lot to Elevation, we picked next door.

And had a perfectly benign meal.  BL-4th grader will tell you the smoked salmon deviled eggs were excellent and his pot pie was rich and tasty.  I would say my pot roast was a couple steps above cafeteria pot roast but unmemorable.  I can't remember what Mr. BLB had but he though it was fine.  His cocktail was too sweet in my estimation.  

Will we go back? Not until we face a similar situation and next time, I'd probably remember Brooklyn Deli is right around the corner.

[Cuddlyone]

Sorry it me so long to reply.  I totally agree! My kids love FF too and me and the spouse is always happy to have a benign meal!!

[pras]

On 7/25/2016 at 6:32 PM, bookluvingbabe said:

We ended up here after an outing last weekend.  Our original plan had been Sugo but they had no working a/c.  Faced with walking next door v. walking across the parking lot to Elevation, we picked next door.

And had a perfectly benign meal.  BL-4th grader will tell you the smoked salmon deviled eggs were excellent and his pot pie was rich and tasty.  I would say my pot roast was a couple steps above cafeteria pot roast but unmemorable.  I can't remember what Mr. BLB had but he though it was fine.  His cocktail was too sweet in my estimation.  

Will we go back? Not until we face a similar situation and next time, I'd probably remember Brooklyn Deli is right around the corner.

Yes, but Brooklyn is further than Elevation, especially when it is 100 degrees!.