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Founding Farmers, Downtown, Potomac, and Tysons Corner


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I had lunch recently at Founding Farmers, mainly to give them another chance after a previous dinner that was horrendously bad. As an example, the meat loaf was so dried out and stiff that it was unrecognizable and had to be sent back. I simply do not understand why this place is always packed -- maybe it's the huge portions that draws the crowds.

The deviled egg platter that my companion and I split was mostly bland. The crab topping on two of the eggs seemed watery. The smoked salmon topping was the best because it had some flavor. I ordered the straw and hay pasta dish simmered in a "light, creamy broth with asparagus, bacon, mushrooms and peas," but what I got was a huge bowl of wide flat noodles that were stuck together in a doughy lump in a gluey cream sauce. After a few bites, I left it there on the table -- I did not have the time in the middle of a work day to send it back and try something else. Nor did the server ask if there was anything wrong with it. Oh, and we did get the whole LEED certified, sustainable, owned by Nebraska farmers speech, and a further speech about how Thomas Jefferson invented pasta, or a pasta maker, or something like that.

It's all well and good for the Nebraska farmers to create a restaurant to promote sustainability and all that, but the food should be good and well prepared. They will not be getting any more of my money.

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All in all, it was pretty good. Had reservations for 5 at 7:30 which included an 80 something year old lady. Got there about 20 min. early but the waiting corner worked and we were called at 7:35 BUT the table was horrible (first floor in front of the bar- nose level was way over the top) so we asked for a table upstairs. The hostess couldn't have been nicer and we had a booth in about 10 min. Right away we noticed all of the grey and white head around the room. Many seemed to be with young people. Now on to the food and service. Paris, our waitress was good and nice but she couldn't control the very slow appearance of the beverages. The flatbread appetizers were great. We had the mascapone/prosciuto/fig and the brie/onion jam/apple. Main courses were the Pot Roast which was loved by all who tasted it, the MeatLoaf which was very good - seemed it was seasoned with herbes de provence, the fried chicken (moi) excellent and Chicken Pot Pies were just so-so.

When clearing the table, Paris noticed that the biscuit on the potpies was burned which she commented on and the ladies also mentioned that the pie was very runny. She said she would be reporting to the chef. End of story. Dessert was a simple plate of chocolates, nothing to rave about.

Would I go back? Maybe, on a crisp night when I was in the mood for comfort food. The price certainly was very affordable thus the many young people (maybe college students) Parking across Pennsylvania Ave is $10 for valet.

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Jane Black exposes Founding Farmers.

My only criticism is that the piece was too soft (probably in the name of "balance") and didn't go for the jugular. Nevertheless, thank you for having the courage to write it.

I'd lower Founding Farmers in the Dining Guide, except I can't see putting them below Washington Deli, which is their next step down.

No, Dan Simons, you're certainly not Equinox, any more than Dan Quayle is John Kennedy. And no, green isn't only about what people put in their mouth, nor should it be: From everything I've read in medical journals, the American Greenback is one of the dirtiest things there is.

Cheers,

Rocks.

I want to love Founding Famers soooo much - but I can't - many things aside. Amen to Jane Black's article and same to your Post, DR. I know a bit about the green / eco / sustainable / environmental business and whether you call it 'green washing' or 'food washing' or whatever, it all translates back to how you posture yourself is usually how you posture your business. As a diner for me that usually translates to taste and experience. Taste at Founding Farmers has been, well, ok - experience on the other hand has felt, well, a little dirty - and not in a free range pig happy in the mud kind of way. Just one man's opinion.

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We stopped here for brunch before heading to the Kennedy Center on Saturday, solid experience all around.

Service was lacking. Our waiter was absent most of the morning and wasn't very personable. If we had been in a rush, or had questions to ask, I feel like I would have been pissed with him as our server, but we were merely disappointed.

Environment was nice. We sat upstairs, which was preferable because downstairs was pretty loud when we walked in the door at 11:00 AM. Eye candy all over the place, even my wife mentioned numerous times how many good looking 20-somethings were sitting at the tables next to us. By the way, I am pretty sure I didn't know what brunch was when I was in college, now there are groups of 6-8 college students, all dressed nicely, going to brunch and dropping $50 like it is no problem. I feel like I grew up in a different world sometimes.

Food was great, with some items merely average. Blueberry pancakes were spot on, hash browns with leeks were crispy and had lots of great flavor. The fried chicken was moist and seasoned well, my eggs (over easy) were cooked perfectly. Bacon was a bit thick and flabby for our taste, but we liked the flavor and some of our dislike of the dish is clearly a personal preference. The waffle was too crisp and thin, there was essentially no middle to it, all of it was the crispy outside, so it was quite dry. My wife loved her coffee, I thought that my two drinks (Pimm's Cup and some lemony thing) were overpriced and too sweet.

Overall, if we head downtown for brunch, which we don't do often, I would definitely stop by Founding Farmers again. Good food, good vibe, lots to like about this place on a cold Saturday morning.

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As I work just around the corner, FF is my team's go-to place for breakfast birthday celebrations. What's not to love about the breakfast fare--the potato-leek hashbrowns are always nicely crispy, the pancakes are light and fluffy, and there are enough interesting/fun items like benigets with various dipping sauces to keep it interesting...

But why must the service always, always be confoundingly slow? This morning, our waiter asked for our coffee orders, and abruptly left in the middle of the order to get the first two latte orders in. He then came back to get our other three orders. Then, though we indicated we were also ready with food orders, he left to get the other coffees/lattes first. Throughout the meal, bringing water refills or "extras" like ketchup and extra syrup took a good deal of time. The food is so tasty, that of course we will be back. But every time, it seems that getting efficient service at breakfast is tricky.

(Admittedly, I'm probably just grumpy because I gave up meat for Lent, and their bacon is so, so good.)

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Park Potomac location is now open.

Wondering how mediocre it will be....

Went for dinner on Friday night. I've not been to the original location, so I have no basis of comparison. Clearly some opening week issues with the staff. We watched the food runners take dishes from table to table..unable to find the correct destination. Servers cleared dirty dishes from the tables quickly..but there didn't seem to be enough buss staff, since the same tables sat dirty and empty long after the patrons left...despite a healthy crowd waiting in the entrance way.

I enjoyed a specialty drink (Park Potomac Swizzle) from the "pre-Prohibition" bar, but my beer snob hubby was not happy that the beer menu only mentioned the names of the breweries and not the actual beers available. Our server didn't seem very familiar with the available beers which made ordering that much more difficult for him. As for the food, I ordered the chicken and waffles which is served with mac n cheese and some greens. Hubby ordered the braised beef ribs served with vegetables and mashed potatoes. The beef ribs (plural on the menu) are one of the more expensive items on the menu, yet he was served only a single beef rib. Generally the food was good, but under seasoned. Also, it arrived warm but not hot...presumably our meals took the same tour of the restaurant that we saw everyone else's dishes take. Dessert was a chocolate peanut butter pie - outstanding, and a very dry piece of red velvet cake. So dry and hard on BOTH sides that we had our server replace what was obviously stale cake with a fresh slice. Overall, I would put it above mediocre, especially for Montgomery County...it might even be good in a few weeks once the team is better trained.

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Went there this week for dinner with a visting out of town friend who had previously been there with his University of Maryland son who turned him on to the place. Given the reviews here, and the fact that my friend was staying at Pentagon City, I tried to talk him into the Majestic for his dose of comfort food, but to no avail.

At 8 PM, FF was packed and very noisy. We seemed to be two of the few there over 40 (or even 30). Notwithstanding our reservation, we had a 20 minute wait for a table near the bar. Service was good, food was mixed. We wanted to talk, drink and nosh for a while so we started with the chicken wings and the bacon appetizer. The wings were plentiful, juicy, but too sweet for my taste. The bacon was incinerated. I had been expecting something like the pork belly type chunks you get at Rays, Peter Lugar's or other steak houses, but what was served was essentially satay like strips of thin, burned and (yes here we go again) very sweet bacon. After that my buddy had the braised short ribs, which he raved about, and I had a hamburger that was cooked to medium (not medium rare as ordered), but not as good as even the better destination burger venues like Rays or BGR.

If I were in college or living like a pauper in my first job and looking for a date venue a step above my usual grunge bar or 'affordable' ethnic restaurant, FF would be on my list. It's noisy, crowded with good looking, young people grazing and cruising, is pretty affordable and is a swanky looking room. Now in my 50's, I have earned the right to be curmudgeonly on occasion and this place brings it out in me. It is way too loud and crowded for a dinner involving any attempt at conversation with your table mates unless you have the hearing of a lynx.

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I tried to find a thread about this restaurant but couldn't. Has anyone ate here? It has good reviews on Open Table, but interested if anyone here has a dining experience there they can share. Looking for someplace different for an anniversary dinner. We always go to Marcel's for birthdays, anniversaries and special occasions and have never been disappointed by the food or service. But I am finding the need to go somewhere else since we don't get into the city that often and I think it's time for a change. Other places we like to give an idea of the food we like are 1789, Circle Bistro, Corduroy, Brasserie Beck, Firefly, Tosca, iRicci, Caucus Room, Dino, Restaurant Eve, Ebbittt, to name a few. Looking for something American this time. I got this restaurant off Open Table's most booked list. Granted, most booked isn't necessarily the best food. Am wondering if Founding fathers is worth a try. We want to stay in DC and eat somewhere within a few blocks from the metro since we will be sans car.

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I tried to find a thread about this restaurant but couldn't. Has anyone ate here? It has good reviews on Open Table, but interested if anyone here has a dining experience there they can share. Looking for someplace different for an anniversary dinner. We always go to Marcel's for birthdays, anniversaries and special occasions and have never been disappointed by the food or service. But I am finding the need to go somewhere else since we don't get into the city that often and I think it's time for a change. Other places we like to give an idea of the food we like are 1789, Circle Bistro, Corduroy, Brasserie Beck, Firefly, Tosca, iRicci, Caucus Room, Dino, Restaurant Eve, Ebbittt, to name a few. Looking for something American this time. I got this restaurant off Open Table's most booked list. Granted, most booked isn't necessarily the best food. Am wondering if Founding fathers is worth a try. We want to stay in DC and eat somewhere within a few blocks from the metro since we will be sans car.

Do you mean Founding Farmers in DC? Or Founding Fathers, up in New York?

(fun synchronicity)

(not finding)

(something entitled founding)

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Do you mean Founding Farmers in DC? Or Founding Fathers, up in New York?

(fun synchronicity)

(not finding)

(something entitled founding)

Yep, your right! Founding Farmers! No wonder I couldn't find anything about it lol! Thank you! (Must be having a "blonde" day!)

****Just checked the reviews here, doesn't really look like what I am looking for an anniversary dinner.

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****Just checked the reviews here, doesn't really look like what I am looking for an anniversary dinner.

Founding Farmers definitely isn't at the quality or ambiance level as most of the places you listed in your OP. OK spot for a business breakfast though.

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Wouldn't have gone here had the location not met our needs. Won't go back. We'd heard it was so-so at best except for breakfast. What I found was that for breakfast, it is just so.

We had car trouble and they were nice enough to push our reservation back an hour. We had a table that had some round thing hanging over it. It had a speaker and we wondered if it was a white noise speaker. In any case, it kept the area quiet in what was otherwise a noisy restaurant - all glass and hard surfaces.

The menu is standard breakfast stuff, but no omelettes. The waiter would not leave the coffee carafe which really irks me. We had three people drinking coffee and we each knew we would want more than one cup and why have to try to keep flagging down your waiter in a busy restaurant? Why not just leave the carafe? And sure enough, that's exactly what happened. We had to keep hunting for him. They will leave a pitcher of water but not a carafe of coffee. It was an insulated carafe so it wasn't as though it would get cold and have to be pitched.

I ordered scrambled eggs, wet, with bacon and hash browns. The eggs arrived barely lukewarm and it looked as though they'd scrambled the whites and the yolks separately. Very unappetizing appearance. The bacon was also barely warm and just ordinary even though it was billed as Niman Ranch. I've purchased Niman Ranch bacon from the grocery store and it was considerably better than this, so I wonder. The hash browns were good. We had to beg for butter for the various breads that came with the meals. No jams were offered, though the menu said they were included. All who had ordered eggs/bacon found the meals to be substandard. The blueberry pancakes, by contrast, were stellar. Light as air and filled with very plump blueberries.

I'd just as soon go to the Parkway Deli where they know how to prepare eggs and bacon, for a much lower price. However, it just wasn't convenient to our starting point.

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So this is weird. Beautiful weather last night, so we went here to eat at their new outdoor dining area. Amazingly, it was closed because it was too "hot." Temp was high eighties with a nice breeze. Isn't that exactly when you want to eat outside? We ended up going to the Matchbox in Rockville and eating on their patio (which was packed).

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Third trip to Founding Farmers. (I realize I didn't post our second attempt. For all the issues they have here, the Spatchcock Chicken really was stellar.)

This time around was for brunch. Silly me, didn't realize that I would need reservations at 10:30, and the place was packed. We chose to take two seats at the bar, and maybe because of that I had my best experience yet at the Potomac location. There were two bartenders, both friendly and not so busy that you couldn't get their attention if you wanted something, but not intrusive in the least. Unlike most bar seats in this town, these were generously sized, and provided a foot rest, so they were actually comfortable enough to enjoy the meal. The Sunday morning vibe was very family-friendly, and the restaurant was packed, but not as loud as it usually is.

We were the fortunate recipients of an unwanted order of beignets, and those bad boys rocked! Because we had indulged in those sweet puffs of fried dough, I went against my natural inclination for pancakes or french toast and ordered eggs. They don't have omelets, but they do have these "skillet" dishes that are basically the same thing. Since I've had issues with food coming out of this kitchen luke warm, I ordered the sausage and potato skillet. This ensured my eggs were served screaming hot, and while I thought it was a bit under-seasoned, the dish was tasty. The hash browns served along side could have been hotter. The pancakes and stuffed french toast that I saw around me made me vow to return to try them. The stuffed french toast in particular looked amazing.

I asked if the OJ was fresh squeezed, and it was. I do wish they kept the carafes of OJ on ice.

Honestly, the best part was the bill. While I realize we didn't have to pay for the beignets and they would have added a bit to our bill, I was shocked that two of us enjoyed a really nice breakfast here for $30 before tip. Given the wasteland that is MoCo dining, I walked out of FF last weekend feeling like I had gotten a pretty great meal, in a nice atmosphere about as cheaply as you can. I immediately started planning my return trip for brunch.

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I've been a few times to the Rockville location over the last year and my thoughts are in line with the rest of this thread. FF is a little different from other places and the food is OK - neither awesome or bad - with some highlights and lowlights.

Yesterday I was downtown and stopped in having never been to that location. 2pm on a Saturday and it was PACKED. The sidewalk was quiet as were (generally) all the other businesses around it.

So my question to the group - what is going on? What is the appeal? My guess is that they're doing for sitdown meals what Chipotle does for fast foods and Whole Foods does for groceries: present a green/local/healthy option (while not being precise), are consistent in quality and are convenient and easily understood. Are they positioning themselves to become the size of Chipotle/Whole Foods? To be a green TGI Fridays or Cheesecake Factory?

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I've been a few times to the Rockville location over the last year and my thoughts are in line with the rest of this thread. FF is a little different from other places and the food is OK - neither awesome or bad - with some highlights and lowlights.

Yesterday I was downtown and stopped in having never been to that location. 2pm on a Saturday and it was PACKED. The sidewalk was quiet as were (generally) all the other businesses around it.

So my question to the group - what is going on? What is the appeal? My guess is that they're doing for sitdown meals what Chipotle does for fast foods and Whole Foods does for groceries: present a green/local/healthy option (while not being precise), are consistent in quality and are convenient and easily understood. Are they positioning themselves to become the size of Chipotle/Whole Foods? To be a green TGI Fridays or Cheesecake Factory?

Have been several times for breakfast and once or twice for lunch/dinner. Agree with the overall consensus--pretty mediocre with a few highs and some real disappointments but the average over time is passable. Much cooler in concept, mission and values than in execution. All said, I think FF has been marketed pretty heavily through the nearby hotels and travel guides. It attracts business/government types due to the location (lots of World Bank, IMF, and many white collar employers surround it) and maybe more than its share of tourists. Location matters a lot. So does marketing.

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Business and tourists might make up the customer base in DC, but at the Potomac location it's all locals. Given their breakfast/brunch competition is mostly of the IHOP, Dennys, Silver Diner vein...I'd say its that FF is slightly better than mediocre in execution and quite a bit better in environment.

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Given the wasteland that is MoCo dining, I walked out of FF last weekend feeling like I had gotten a pretty great meal, in a nice atmosphere about as cheaply as you can. I immediately started planning my return trip for brunch.

I live in Rockville and, frankly, have never felt the need to go to FF. I ate lunch at the DC location a couple years ago and found the cooking incredibly mediocre to bad (who screws up meatloaf?). Mrs. 29 and I rely on a pretty constant Rockville and points south rotation of Pizza CS, La Brasa, Urban BBQ, Ambrosia (breakfast), Black Market and I enjoy brunch, beer and mini-burgers at Matchbox if we're talking over-hyped/over-crowded. Even (gasp) happy hour at Chef Geoff's is more appealing to me than FF :ph34r: I don't think that Rockville is the food wasteland that some make it out to be, just many of the good options are just back in the cut and require some research.

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I've been a few times to the Rockville location over the last year and my thoughts are in line with the rest of this thread. FF is a little different from other places and the food is OK - neither awesome or bad - with some highlights and lowlights.

Yesterday I was downtown and stopped in having never been to that location. 2pm on a Saturday and it was PACKED. The sidewalk was quiet as were (generally) all the other businesses around it.

So my question to the group - what is going on? What is the appeal? My guess is that they're doing for sitdown meals what Chipotle does for fast foods and Whole Foods does for groceries: present a green/local/healthy option (while not being precise), are consistent in quality and are convenient and easily understood. Are they positioning themselves to become the size of Chipotle/Whole Foods? To be a green TGI Fridays or Cheesecake Factory?

There aren't as many places as one would think in that section of downtown at the DC location - especially for those of us that work south of Pennsylvania Ave. I know a fair number of coworkers who go there for business lunches and the occasional happy hour more because of a lack of better options than any other reason. Personally I've found the service to be so slow that I can't commit to a two hour lunch during the week. I've generally found the food to be ok and have met people at the bar for a weekend lunch a few times where the service is a bit speedier.

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I have been to the MoCo Founding Farmers about ten times now. While I don't understand the extent of its appeal (constant hour-plus waits for a party of two or four), and there have been quite a few "misses," this is a GOOD restaurant in my opinion. My wife and I agree that there are two outstanding dishes, which we keep coming back to: 1) the Crispy Spatchcock Chicken (honey-thyme-glazed variety), and 2) the ND Mills Gnocchi over Braised Beef Ragu. These dishes may not be trendy, but they taste darn good.

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I'll second the spatchcock chicken as worthwhile at the Potomac location, along with fried chicken and things on their "signatures" page like meatloaf and chicken pot pie. But the Gnocchi has been way overcooked on two occasions, and I think it's because of their preparation - the hot braised ragu is poured over the gnocchi, so even if they were properly prepared on their own, in the 2 minutes from stove area to table they die an ugly death.

House-made sodas are nice, desserts are mostly successful, and they have a decent beer list (but not a decent wine list), and cocktails are atrocious.

If you need to feed an unsophisticated crowd with varied tastes, or your soccer team buys you gift certificates because they know you like restaurants, it's a decent meal if you choose carefully and make a reservation to avoid the ridiculous waits.

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I think I figured out the appeal. This is the "green" Cheesecake Factory- where they are appealing to the conscience without disappointing the tummy in taste or volume. Quite brillant actually - most places have focused on the health of the diners, where this is focused on (general) support of (generally) local suppliers. It isn't kale and seaweed - it is hearty food prepared decently; you can meet the needs of virtually any crowd here and they found a unique spot amongst a crowded competitive landscape.

A couple of observations. I believe people like the following and I can't think of many restaurants that offer this particular combination of features:

- Large places filled with people. Most don't like to leave their house to dine in solitude.

- Decent, consistent service. Each time I've been there, the staff seems pretty well trained and "on point".

- A story behind the restaurant, a raison d'être, and the accompanying themes (decor, menu, etc.)

- Leaving the diners to feel like they did something good without actually sacrificing. This restaurant is like a $25 gift card...it gives the gift but didn't require hardly any effort or cost.

There are some other elements, I'm sure. It seems like someone's graduate thesis and seems to be doing exceedingly well, like a Clyde's with an environmental drumbeat consistently behind it. Fascinating.

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I have to come to the defense of Founding Farmers - I've enjoyed my meals there. While it is not in the wheelhouse of many on this board (nothing truly innovative on the menu), I think it's mostly tasty, good quality American comfort food done affordably. For a lot of people, that's more than enough!

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I have to come to the defense of Founding Farmers - I've enjoyed my meals there. While it is not in the wheelhouse of many on this board (nothing truly innovative on the menu), I think it's mostly tasty, good quality American comfort food done affordably. For a lot of people, that's more than enough!

Agreed! I don't mean to say there's anything particularly bad about it. In fact, I think any restaurant that succeeds these days must have SOMEthing going for it, and when I've been, I've enjoyed some good meals - service, ambiance and food all considered.

Their secret, I believe, is that they play up the 'support the local farmer' aspect but are very careful NOT to over-commit to the point where failures happen. So what does FF guarantee? An experience like at any Clyde's, which is to say a polished staff in a nice, big place and a well-rounded, widely-appealing menu. They will get their food from local sources when possible, but I'm confident that when push comes to shove, they'll buy where they can to keep the place going against their promise. THAT is a winning formula, as that way the diner never really sacrifices.

Family Meal in Frederick is somewhat similar but with a focus first on preparation. This means a few things that FF is not:

1- The menu at Family Meal is, right off the bat, more adventurous than some would like.

2- There will be times when the Family Meal standard will not be compromised; at a small cost to the diner. (For instance, if the marshmallow in the milkshake gets a little too burnt from the torch, they will dump it and start over...meaning the diner waits a bit longer for their shake.)

Family Meal seems to be succeeding as well, but FF seems to strike a better balance in the two (commitment vs popularity) and has the advantage of starting from scratch (over, say a Bob Evans chain which may begin to tout localvorism, but just won't get many converts).

I may never own a restaurant. Yet I find this fascinating. Having seen some of the customer reaction to this place, I'd love to be an investor and I suspect we may be seeing the beginnings of an impressive empire.

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Agreed! I don't mean to say there's anything particularly bad about it. In fact, I think any restaurant that succeeds these days must have SOMEthing going for it, and when I've been, I've enjoyed some good meals - service, ambiance and food all considered.

Their secret, I believe, is that they play up the 'support the local farmer' aspect but are very careful NOT to over-commit to the point where failures happen. So what does FF guarantee? An experience like at any Clyde's, which is to say a polished staff in a nice, big place and a well-rounded, widely-appealing menu. They will get their food from local sources when possible, but I'm confident that when push comes to shove, they'll buy where they can to keep the place going against their promise. THAT is a winning formula, as that way the diner never really sacrifices.

Family Meal in Frederick is somewhat similar but with a focus first on preparation. This means a few things that FF is not:

1- The menu at Family Meal is, right off the bat, more adventurous than some would like.

2- There will be times when the Family Meal standard will not be compromised; at a small cost to the diner. (For instance, if the marshmallow in the milkshake gets a little too burnt from the torch, they will dump it and start over...meaning the diner waits a bit longer for their shake.)

Family Meal seems to be succeeding as well, but FF seems to strike a better balance in the two (commitment vs popularity) and has the advantage of starting from scratch (over, say a Bob Evans chain which may begin to tout localvorism, but just won't get many converts).

I may never own a restaurant. Yet I find this fascinating. Having seen some of the customer reaction to this place, I'd love to be an investor and I suspect we may be seeing the beginnings of an impressive empire.

Really interesting to me too. I like your analysis. And, while it's impossible to know the success formula for sure since we don't have access to FF's books, I'd add a few thoughts just because fun, and maybe helpful, to do.

Two potential drivers of FF's success and one open question.

- Driver #1: The Nature of FF Marketing. I think your "they play up the farmer" idea is right. They identified a clever niche and exploited it well. With the dining public almost fatigued by "farm to table" promotions from traditional restauranteurs, along came an actual group (co-op; actually a 41,000 member midwest union) of farmers. They smartly promoted the farmer angle...hard. And that did a couple of good things for them. It generated real interest since it was novel. Short of having a meal at a farm, this was as close as most customers might get and right in the middle of Washington, DC! As much as many love a good Celebrity Chef who has 'strong relationships with local farmers,' here there was supposedly no intermediary. No restauranteur who just visits his supplying farms on occasion. No heartless, multi-billion dollar wholesaler like Sysco. And, also important, the nature of the marketing lowers customer expectations so they can be more easily exceeded and repeat visits made more likely. If we go to a Celebrity Chef restaurant who promotes farm-to-table, we pay more than $60 or $70 pp and we expect a pretty outstanding experience. At FF, the perception is that you're buying food from the farmers. From the guys and gals who are tilling the earth and feeding the livestock at 5AM. That they can put a restaurant together is gravy (no pun intended); the experience and quality bar is much lower. And at lower prices! Can't get too angry at an amiable pig farmer wearing overalls, right? :) Of course, that's not really from whom much of the food is being sourced at all; especially now. More on that below.

- Driver #2: Differentiably cost-effective supply chain/sourcing. A big part of any restaurant's expenses are food costs. You have to be able to near-fully monetize the ingredients you buy (as a chef/owner) to be really successful. Waste is always a big challenge since fresh food perishes. That's why cross-sell, up-sell, minimizing waste ('nose to tail' or 'trotters' anyone?) and turning tables quickly enough to use stuff up are all so important to the financials. FF probably (not certainly) pays somewhat less for what it buys since the producers and the owners are partly the same people. That likely has some material and positive impact on their success since their rent, equipment and labor costs should all be similar to any downtown restaurant. Also worth pointing out here that much of the food coming in the back door comes from less artisan, less local and less admirable sources simply and purely because that lowers costs, keeps menu prices lower and FF dining rooms fuller (more below on that).

The Open Question

Will the FF concept scale more successfully than most? And, if it does, why?

We know that scale is the enemy of quality as a general-but not absolute-rule. A loved restaurant opens up 2nd and 3rd locations and all of a sudden quality slips, customers bolt, the business stops paying its bills and more bad things happen as the business realizes (often too late) that it has overextended itself. This is one thing that makes someone like Frank Ruta at Palena so unusual.

FF now has 3 locations with its Georgetown Waterfront Farmers Fishers Bakers now renovated and re-opened. With downtown and Potomac, that represents three very expensive bets. The invested capital in real estate and equipment alone is significant given the locations and size of the restaurants. This could end up being very successful and the subject of leading business school case studies. Or it could crash and burn famously. Only time will tell.

One thing we can say though. This is a smartly and professionally run sophisticated business operation.

They don't buy only from farms. Plenty of big and less endearing suppliers like a large Canadian acquaculture (farmed fish) company that has itself run afoul of local law enforcement and regulators. Very professional and regularly updated websites fully integrated with OpenTable and social media. Beyond all the online stuff and the marketing, the people behind this growing business don't wear overalls. Nope. The people who nominally own, bankroll and operate this business wear ties and business garb. That's for sure.

Of course, at the end of the day all that matters is whether the market holds for them. If enough people like the food and experience enough to go frequently enough, they'll be profitable and grow. Much easier said than done but in thinking about the economics of FF, one has to understand what the business is...and isn't. And, as a customer (I'm one on occasion too!) maybe stay away from the salmon. ;)

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Really interesting to me too. I like your analysis. And, while it's impossible to know the success formula for sure since we don't have access to FF's books, I'd add a few thoughts just because fun to do.

....

And, also important, the nature of the marketing lowers customer expectations so they can be more easily exceeded. If we go to a Celebrity Chef restaurant who promotes farm-to-table, we pay more than $60 or $70 pp and we expect a pretty outstanding experience. At FF, the perception is that you're buying food from the farmers. From the guys and gals who are tilling the earth and feeding the livestock at 5AM. That they can put a restaurant together is gravy (no pun intended); the experience and quality bar is much lower. And at lower prices! Can't get too angry at an amiable pig farmer wearing overalls, right? :) Of course, that's not really from whom much of the food is being sourced at all; especially now. More on that below.

....

One thing we can say though. This is a smartly and professionally run sophisticated business operation.

They don't buy only from farms. Plenty of big and less endearing suppliers like a large Canadian acquaculture (farmed fish) company that has itself run afoul of local law enforcement and regulators. Very professional and regularly updated websites fully integrated with OpenTable and social media. Beyond all the online stuff and the marketing, the people behind this growing business don't wear overalls. Nope. The people who nominally own, bankroll and operate this business wear ties and business garb. That's for sure.

Fun indeed!

I think this is the magic combination, you hit it right on the head. My expectations were set via things like the factory tour of the Cabot cheese HQ in Vermont and various Lancaster County, PA type tours/restaurants. My expectations include straw/hay, lack of temperature regulation, dirt in high places, etc. Yes, maybe there's awesome cheese somewhere after all the 'out of my element' experience, but there's a lot of country to experience before getting to the awesome cheese. I don't mind pulling out the old sneakers once in a while, but for most meals, no.

Instead, the experience is... all the benefit of the farm and supporting the farmer... but none of the straw or dirt or cold drafts. The resturaunt turns out to be as clean / modern / professional as the best of them. Combined also with none of the "better than thou" pretense of celebrity chefs and adventurous menus - and you have the perfect storm.

I think we have it figured out; how they've figured it out. Just wish I thought of it first :)

The downtown location had people pressed against the glass, inside waiting for their tables, at 2pm on a Saturday...they've certainly struck a nerve.

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I think we have it figured out; how they've figured it out. Just wish I thought of it first :)

Only thing you've said with which I'm not sure I agree. As best one can tell, FFG (the official parent company name--Founding Farmers Group), has simply grown its business smartly, legally and aggressively. Despite the downtown location being very busy pretty regularly, we don't know how financially successful they really are or, more importantly, will be.

My issue here is transparency. I tend to favor restaurants and operators who are transparent about what they're doing or at least aren't misrepresenting what they're doing. Best are folks like Dean, who actually prints his suppliers on his menu, blogs extensively about sustainability and sourcing, and will answer questions without any BS. Others don't promote or advertise their sources. They simply sell food and, if you like it and feel it fairly priced, then all good. Making money is American and admirable. But there's something to be said for making money the right way; a personal judgment call to be sure.

To some degree, FFG presents itself as one thing (a bunch of earth-loving, hard-working, simple artisan farmers) when it's really another thing (a sophisticated business run by serious business people who take the same shortcuts and use the same tactics as most businesses). Safe to say that most people crowding the glass downtown have no idea. Ask your server next time there where the salmon or chicken comes from. See what they tell you.

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Only thing you've said with which I'm not sure I agree. As best one can tell, FFG (the official parent company name--Founding Farmers Group), has simply grown its business smartly, legally and aggressively. Despite the downtown location being very busy pretty regularly, we don't know how financially successful they really are or, more importantly, will be.

My issue here is transparency. I tend to favor restaurants and operators who are transparent about what they're doing or at least aren't misrepresenting what they're doing. Best are folks like Dean, who actually prints his suppliers on his menu, blogs extensively about sustainability and sourcing, and will answer questions without any BS. Others don't promote or advertise their sources. They simply sell food and, if you like it and feel it fairly priced, then all good. Making money is American and admirable. But there's something to be said for making money the right way; a personal judgment call to be sure.

To some degree, FFG presents itself as one thing (a bunch of earth-loving, hard-working, simple artisan farmers) when it's really another thing (a sophisticated business run by serious business people who take the same shortcuts and use the same tactics as most businesses). Safe to say that most people crowding the glass downtown have no idea. Ask your server next time there where the salmon or chicken comes from. See what they tell you.

Oh, I agree. And its precisely that balance (or imbalance if you will) that works and allows people not to care. I'm not saying it is good or right, rather that it is somewhat unique and appears to be working frighteningly well. (maybe it isn't, maybe it won't.)

I was in Chipotle last week for the first time in a while last week. The menu board said something like "the beef is hormone free (when we can get it)" - so, they kind of get the credit for the effort, but they aren't so committed as to ever say to someone "sorry, we couldn't get the hormone free beef, so w can't serve you". And I'd say that the general population is fine with that. 1% will demand hormone-free beef and will refuse a dish if they can't get it. For them, some restaurants will be that discerning and they'll frequent those restaurants while taking the risk of inconsistency.

For the other 99%, "hey, we like the effort - do it all you can, that's great - but don't be out of stuff or raise your prices too much."

I think that's the appeal here. It is deceptive in some ways. Maybe their biggest risk is if they're ever "outed" and someone comes along with a more committed answer while providing mass consistency.

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Bumping this thread, FF is opening in Tyson's in the former INOX space in Febuary. Huge space that will borrow from the other locations and add a juice bar and some other new concepts. More to come or look on FB for more details

Hate to say it, but I can't imagine this concept surviving in Tysons, where restaurants go to die. I hope the new Metro stops and the foot traffic prove me wrong, but Tysons is where the IT crowd eats steak on expense accounts, and where everybody leaves at dinnertime except the IT crowd that eats steak for dinner.

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Hate to say it, but I can't imagine this concept surviving in Tysons, where restaurants go to die. I hope the new Metro stops and the foot traffic prove me wrong, but Tysons is where the IT crowd eats steak on expense accounts, and where everybody leaves at dinnertime except the IT crowd that eats steak for dinner.

They're thinking long-term. Tysons is changing, and they probably cut a deal to get in early.

I can't imagine this concept surviving anywhere, but I suspect the downtown branch has some of the highest revenues in DC. A substantial number of people are willing to pay for mediocrity if they think it's something more than that.

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The DC branch isn't exactly in a hip happening section of DC, surrounded by government/NGO/embassy buildings, yet the restaurant is usually busy and always packed for weekend brunch. I think the Tyson branch will make a killing- big portions, relatively decent pricing, kitschy story to spin. Plus they actively cater to the veg/vegan crowd.

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Agreed that the food in the Rockville branch is pretty average. But this part of the county is thirsting for a neighborhood place with a ton of disposable income itching to pour in. The place is stylish, reasonably priced and has some creative menu options. In Potomac, that's probably enough for success.

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The Potomac branch is always packed, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. I've been probably a half dozen times since they opened, and I've never had anything more than a meh meal there.

You can sell SOS for $50 a plate in Potomac. I don't know of any other locale in this area where food quality is so low yet deep pockets and demand are so high.

Agreed that the food in the Rockville branch is pretty average. But this part of the county is thirsting for a neighborhood place with a ton of disposable income itching to pour in. The place is stylish, reasonably priced and has some creative menu options. In Potomac, that's probably enough for success.

The horribly bad Renato and the sinking-with-each-visit Grilled Oyster Company are cases in point. You can sell Pet Rocks and Mood Rings in Potomac and make a fortune.

My Potomac friends and extended family rave about Founding Farmers, yet they know almost nothing about good food and they have many zeros after the crooked numbers in their checkbooks.

I predict it will die an ugly death in Tysons.

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Hate to say it, but I can't imagine this concept surviving in Tysons, where restaurants go to die. I hope the new Metro stops and the foot traffic prove me wrong, but Tysons is where the IT crowd eats steak on expense accounts, and where everybody leaves at dinnertime except the IT crowd that eats steak for dinner.

Had you included a rant about GAR you could have hit two frequent comments in one post  :P. I think that Founding Farmers will do very well in Tysons, as it is a  seemingly more upscale version of Chef Geoff's (or Wildfire), both of which seem to be doing just fine - and development has finally come to that area of tysons now.

And just to remember - Inox was a great restaurant. I still miss it.

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Had you included a rant about GAR you could have hit two frequent comments in one post  :P. I think that Founding Farmers will do very well in Tysons, as it is a  seemingly more upscale version of Chef Geoff's (or Wildfire), both of which seem to be doing just fine - and development has finally come to that area of tysons now.

And just to remember - Inox was a great restaurant. I still miss it.

Thank you for your attentiveness. I'm glad to see I have your rapt attention. Stay tuned....

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You can sell SOS for $50 a plate in Potomac. I don't know of any other locale in this area where food quality is so low yet deep pockets and demand are so high.

The horribly bad Renato and the sinking-with-each-visit Grilled Oyster Company are cases in point. You can sell Pet Rocks and Mood Rings in Potomac and make a fortune.

My Potomac friends and extended family rave about Founding Farmers, yet they know almost nothing about good food and they have many zeros after the crooked numbers in their checkbooks.

I predict it will die an ugly death in Tysons.

My prediction is that it will succeed in Tysons at the old Inox location, unfortunately, Inox was ahead of its time. The zoning plans call for a park/event area between Tysons I and Tysons II Galleria which should increase the foot traffic nearby even if the majority of foot traffic does not go to Tysons II.

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But they draw much heavier crowds than the better (and cheaper) Sugo in the same building. Exasperating.

Whether you know it or not, you've just distilled the current state of Washington, DC dining down into one sentence.

 

Inox was ahead of its time

Yes, as it turns out, Inox was literally ten years ahead of its time. It was one of the best restaurants ever in the Washington, DC area, but got caught in the middle of Tysons Corner development. The exact same restaurant would be an enormous success five years from now, maybe even less.

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Whether you know it or not, you've just distilled the current state of Washington, DC dining down into one sentence.

Yes, as it turns out, Inox was literally ten years ahead of its time. It was one of the best restaurants ever in the Washington, DC area, but got caught in the middle of Tysons Corner development. The exact same restaurant would be an enormous success five years from now, maybe even less.

Tysons development and the crash of the economy.

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