Waitman

Don't know you or your friend's demographics, but Milano is an extremely hip place for wealthy men between 35 and 60 and the women who love them. They now have a souvenir shop, which is always a bad sign, and the food has gone downhill.

I'd run with Atlantico, as NCP suggested, or something else Penn Quarter-ish. Zatinya, maybe. DC Coast strikes me as very 90s, but someone else may know better. Firefly has something of a scene going, and good food, as well, and is reasonably close to all those hip 18th St. clubs.

I honestly haven't gone on a Saturday, but during the week, 6:30 has never been a problem. But as someone whose father also doesn't set any world records for patience, I can understand not wanting to risk it.

Hope Corduroy comes through. Otherwise I agree with the Circle Bistro recommendation, and if you want somewhere more casual, Dino has a long enough menu to offer dishes everywhere on the plain-to-adventurous spectrum.

I've gotten in at 6:30 on a Friday night without trouble, generally anything before seven is pretty good anywhere in DC.

You can always go to Buck's Fishing & Camping. 6:30 is a no-brainer time and they always have that steak on the menu for the traditionalists.

Chains do have their place in this world.  Do you really want to wait for a table at your favorite palace of fine dining while the unwashed masses clog up the isles with their screaming kids?

Give me a break here.  You don't have to like MickyDees, Jerrys, BK, etc, but they do serve a purpose, and alot of burgers.

Having not been born a count or a Rockefeller or a Maharaja I try not to sneer at people who work for a living but haven't had the good manners to get rich doing it, though you should feel free to continue sneering yourself.

As a parent and a diner and a waiter, the overwhelming number my encounters with children and their parents in dining establishments have been positive, perhaps you are spending time in the wrong palaces.

And though I admittedly had lunch in something of a palace today (merci, Mr. Slater), the restaurants I have in mind are not four-star joints, but well-run independent restaurants like Tonic and Radius on Mt. Pleasant St., Buck's Fishing and Camping, various RockStar joints, The Hitching Post, and numerous decent ethnic joints around the city and surrounding area.

And finally, yes, I would love to see the "unwashed masses" (you have such a way with words) and their children supporting good restaurants and creating demand for many, many more.

Everyone is equal...so is the service.

Some service is more equal than others. Would you rather walk into Ray's the Steaks with Jacques Gastreaux or with some unknown off the street?

But, there's nothing wrong with keeping shameless suckups and big spenders -- I mean discerning gourmets -- like Jacques extra happy, as long as even the low-rollers get a professional level of service.

I think, despite the professionalism of servers like Ferhat, though, that the number of servers who can wait on a truly low-rent table with being annoyed at some level is very low.

In re: B.A.R.'s post: My thought was that if the servers are annoyed at the non-drinkers, the bartenders are going to be twice as annoyed.

within reason. what kind of attention would two people receive who came in and asked to split a salad nicoise with glasses of water? just curious, i'm always a lot hungrier than that but even if i weren't i would be afraid to try it.

Not the same kind of attention that you'd get if you ordered two three-course meals and a bottle of Chambertin, that's for sure.

Insert Devil's Advocate Point of View:

Although I agree with most of what has been said about chains I think we need to take a look at their existence from another point of view: those who are uneducated and struggle to put any meal on the table.

These food chains, as well as Target, Wallmart, etc. provide job opportunities for those who otherwise would be unemployed due to the education they received.  In a country where illiteracy is a large problem these employers have created jobs that require minimal literacy skills.

For many of these people, eating at Breadline or the like is not an option.  Spending $10 at Breadline for one person at lunch is an unheard luxury, especially when you can feed the entire family of seven or eight for close to the same amount around the corner at McDonalds.  The Olive Garden or Applebees is fine dining for some people.  It's where you go for a very special occasion.

Recently one of my students got her first job at a McDonald's.  Is she qualified to do much else right now?  Nope.  Will she be in four years?  Hopefully.  But she is working and has received her first paycheck.  Exciting as that was for her, she wanted it to have larger numbers involved.  My student now understands why I nag on her to get her homework done, stay in class and listen to me once in a while.  This experience alone, which may help save one child from spending the rest of her life existing on a paycheck from McD's or worse, is well worth it to me.

Do I wish there were better, affordable alternative out there?  Of course.  But in our society that is not realistic.  Should we all be grateful we have the opportunity to pick a restaurant that is of higher quality and therefor usually high price?  Yep.  If you don't think so, let me know.  You can come spend a day with me, my students and their families and I will change your mind.

Wait, we're supposed to be grateful that McDonald's gives poor people the opportunity to eat unhealthy food cheaply?

Note that Burger King, Pizza Hut and all those other chains band together to fight minumum wage and health care legislation that might give their employees a reasonable chance at a middle class existence

Finally, do you think it's true that if all the Olive Gardens on Earth disappeared tomorrow, independents wouldn't try to fill the empty niche -- at a price competitive with the OG's?

(Written while eating a Breadline ficelle with butter and radish for breakfast. Sold to me by two young women who looked far happier with life than anyone I've ever seen at McD's)

Thank you Banco.  As the consumer that direct shot was aimed at, I'm glad to see that you were able to see where as I was coming from. 

The personal nature of that "shot" is what was most offensive to me.  Waitman doesn't know me or anything about the choices that I make on a daily basis.  I don't fit into that "one such consumer" definition he seems to want to apply to anyone who dares to set foot in establishments that make him 'dyspeptic' . 

On the contrary, I am 'part of the solution' but don't think that should involve passing judgment on others for their choices.  Something about catching more flies with honey....

You chose to pass up Breadline for Potbelly. In doing that, you chose to give money to a corporation that -- as you noted -- plays havoc with my digestion on a number of levels, and which embodies a trend I deeply dislike, rather than give it to someone whose work I respect and who has made Washington a better city to live in (some of us remember the days before Furstenburg was making bread).

Choices have consequences. When choices are made freely and the consequences affect others, those who are affected are certainly within their rights to have an opinion. The spread of chains, financed one sandwich at a time, affects us all. So, I weighed in.

The source of our culinary decisions is our culture, not our corporations.

If I'm an alcoholic and you chase me into every corner of my life trying to pour me a drink, I hardly think -- despite my own culpability -- that you are without fault.

........

That they may be the product of mindless consumers chowing down on mass-produced faux-Italian cuisine at an Olive Garden that looks eerily like 564 other Olive Gardens strewn about the U.S. and Canada like hamburger wrappers thrown from speeding cars, rather than the spawn of soulless corporations mindlessly trampling the beautiful, the creative and the unique in pursuit of double-digit same store revenue growth, contradicts nothing in my initial post.

This is not a supply-side issue, i.e., big, evil, nasty corporations turning us into gastronomic zombies. That reminds me of the worst kind of college-campus neo-Marxist conspiracy theorizing. Rather, it's the demand side: a large mass of poorly educated consumers. The reasons for this in America are cultural and historical. As a people we are not very well educated culinarily. I don't like big chains, either, but you can't blame corporations for giving people what they want. This is just beginning to change in America now, as people are waking up to the obesity epidemic and looking at the diets of other countries (Mediterranean, Asian) for guidance on how to eat well. But we have a long path to walk until the culture changes, and big chains will be with us the whole way.

Au contraire, my corporate apologist friend. First, this whole dust-up began with a fairly direct shot at one such consumer and is, indeed, primarily aimed at reaching others, asking them to become, as it is said, "part of the solution."

Second, I forget what part of the American history and culture is rooted in McDonalds or TGI Fridays.

Third, I suspect that if you asked any of the people involved in siting chain restaurants, ferociously protecting their brands, test-marketing innovations such as Applebees riblets and whatever soul- and artery choking special Chili's is plugging this week, or managing nine-figure advertising budgets, that they do far more than meet demand, that their greatest triumphs involve creating and manipulating it.

Odd to think that the people who have the most to gain from from the chain infestation are merely innocent, passive onlookers.

Does it stop just at restaurants?  Should we all stop going to places like Giant, Safeway, Target, Home Depot, Lowes, Sears, and their ilk?  I have a feeling this is going to be a rather interesting thread.

Giant and Safeway sell commodities -- I ask nothing more of my baking soda than that it make my corn bread rise, and nothing more of my bulk potatoes than that they fry up well. Target etc. are inherently suspect, like a menu item with a little tiny heart next to it, but are beyond the scope of this thread.

"They?" "They" are the little men with HP calculators and tastebuds ruined by Au Bon Pain sandwiches eaten hunched over their desks as they weight the costs of adding free breadsticks to every large pepperoni against profits to be accrued by selling them to the jaded and undiscriminating masses. "They" are the ones buying artificial flavor from a chemical plant in New Jersey to make the strawberry taste more real and them lemon flavor more tart. "They" are the ones buying potbellied stoves by the gross, and shipping them to sandwich factories across America in a depsarate attempt to stand out in a market already crowded with offerings too bland and market-tested to be distinguished from one another. "They" are the ones who look at Ray's, Palena and Dinos and covet the location and plot day and night to bankrupt them and steal their customers away.

If we eat at chains, they win. It's not a static equation, every dollar spent at a chain ("good" or "bad") makes chains stronger vis-a-vis the independents making the battle even more unequal, meaning they get an even higher percentage of the dinning dollars, making them even stronger and the battle between the forces of darkness -- ie, marketing professionals -- and the forces of light even more uneven....It's a brutal cycle that ends with the Destruction of All We Hold Dear.

(So shaken by the thought he sneaks out of the office to refresh at BdC).

Besides, what on earth is so wrong with chains?

Reply here.

Chains are the institutionalization of mediocrity. They are safety over adventure. They sap the spirit. They suck the air out of the room, smothering independent and creative ventures. They train people to eat poorly. They bore me. They reek of artificial flavor, color, ambiance and décor. Wherever they are introduced, they push indigenous restaurants out like snakeheads infesting a Maryland pond. They treat employees badly. They are physically ugly. They are a symbol for everything that’s avaricious and soulless about America. They generate trash. They make us fat. Their advertising treats us like morons.

And I don’t much for care the food, either.

Jeez Waitman, If I were you, I'd try to avoid thinking about Potbellies:

2. dyspeptic - irritable as if suffering from indigestion

For some reason they do drive me around the bend far more rapidly than, say, Cosi. I think it's that stupid "homey" interior that pushes me over the edge.

Have a bad day yesterday, Waitman?

The thought of Potbellies reproducing like cancer cells while quality independent restaurants struggle makes me dyspeptic.

Day 2 at the downtown conference....was planning to take a solo walk over to Breadline but my plan was foiled by a colleague who waylaid me and wanted to go to Potbelly.  I hadn't been there before and I didn't feel like explaining (or sharing) Breadline so I just went along for the ride.

The line wasn't too bad and moved quickly - someone was shouting for my order before I got to the counter, so I got the Skinny Wreck (salami, turkey, ham, roast beef, and swiss) on wheat.  It wasn't too bad and was a decent break from the Subway downstairs in my suburban wasteland office complex.  I actually was happy to see the green olives, although I didn't order them either.  Maybe they were part of the Italian seasoning - I also saw pickled carrots and cauliflower that made me think of antipasto.

A decent enough sandwich for the price, especially since someone else was paying for it 

I'm really only posting this so I can become a VENTWORM!

Nice. Rather than support a dynamic local business with a brilliant local breadmaker at the helm, you bought a mediocre sandwich from a loathsome chain. Because it was a break from Subway.

Why do you think restaurants in America suck?

Chicken wings from Philly Pizza and Cheesesteak, on 9th and O. Oooh, they're (t)(n)asty. With "homemade" blue cheese dressing -- I sauce only with premium Kraft dressing and Pirates Cove pre-crumbled blue (not bleu). And a little bottle of Frank's on one side for a vegetable, and a stale baguette on the other, for fiber.

I like to make sausage with apple and sage this time of year. Fennel and fennel seed are a great combination, too. I made lamb sausage with feta chees and sun-dried tomatoes -- spiced with more Eastern hand -- that went over prettty well. I'm not much on writing down recipes, though generally, you should add more of everything than you think you will need, except salt, especially if you're mixing a good hunk of fatback into the meat.

Have fun, if you follow your instincts you'll come up with great stuff. I mean, c'mon, who ever heard of a bad sausage?

Ahhh, the kids can handle a little second-hand smoke. May be their last chance to experience the delights of a smoky barroom, cigs will surely be banned by the time they're old enough for under-age drinking.

More worried about surly bouncers, temptacious women in "I 'heart' Nerds" belly shirts that might distract my son from his studies and frat boors so toasted I have to keep one eye on my daughter at all times.

Give Angles a try. I know, I know--total divey place, and few think they even serve food. And, sure, the burgers cost $9.95. But they come out of the Little Fountain Cafe kitchen. You have a choice of like ten special toppings--goat cheese, stilton, fried onions, and the like. The buns are fresh, the fries are good (and can be subbed with a salad), and the whole shebang is 2-for-1 on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday.

I hesitate to even mention my secret burgers, but all in the name of chow...

this is good to know. Probably not a place to bring the kids, though.

The 5G in Georgetown brings no glory to the chain. The burger was dry, the room was dirty, and the chick screaming out order numbers was far more annoying than necessary. It appeared that they just didn't care.

$35 steak frites and $40 house wines? Lobbyists and trendoids booking tables weeks in advance and cloggin up my late night booze and gratinee binges? TK blowing into town for the Grand Opening and then disappearing back to Cali and NYC where he does his real worK? I'd rather stay home with the cookbook and see something else go into that space.

While not up to the task of keeping my visit count up to the level of Stretch I had dinner at 2 Amy's over the weekend.  While it was a usual busy Saturday night, the wait was not unbearable.

Enough has been said of the pizza, but I wanted to mention a special item on the little things menu, porchetta!  The front half of a small stuffed and roasted pig was atop the bar waiting to be sliced and served.  A nice treat that I have not seen since my last trip to Italy.  The garlicky flavor combined with the pork was a wonderful combination.  If you see this porcine treat on the bar, get some.

You got the front end Saturday because Mrs. B and I ate up the ass end Friday night. If you sit at the bar you can pick at the "crumbs" off the cutting board all night, whenever the bartenders' backs are turned.

dupe

If you want to lap up some lapin, hop your ass over to Marcel's, for the rabbit with mushrooms and foie gras with mustard dauce. Quite possibly the best bunny on the east coast.