Spill

<---- taking bets one whether he's wearing a tie right now

This kind of "least common denominator" argument doesn't really move the discussion anywhere. I saw the same thing from a number of folks during the whole "smoke-free" debate. It basically boils down to "we are doing something that a group of people doesn't like, but we want to keep doing it without any attempt at finding common ground, so we'll play the 'it's a free world' card and tell you all to go away". Sounds awfully self-serving to me. The argument seems to imply a lack of respect for how others feel on the issue at hand and a complete unwillingness to think about compromise. Perhaps this is more commentary on the structure of our little debate, so feel free to ignore, I just find absolutist arguments like this to be discussion-killers.

FWIW, I like to look nice when I go to a restaurant, but no one on earth would call me a fashion maven. I think there's a difference between looking presentable and wearing a couture headpiece replete with neon ostrich feathers straight from Milan. I like it when others in a restaurant respect the spoken AND unspoken dress code but I feel no need to point out that others look like slobs -- they point that out quite well themselves. Thus, I respect someone elses right to walk into a restaurant in Crocs but I expect that person to realize some folks will think they are underdressed.

Well, the obvious difference between how you dress in a restaurant and whether you smoke in a restaurant is that the latter physically impacts other diners, interfering with them tasting their food and potentially endangering their health.

The moral outrage evident among some here who disapprove of others choices in clothing is not in the same class.

I wasn't telling you, I was asking you, politely. Frankly I don't give a damn about "fashion" I do care about appropriate attire.

I really don't care if you are sitting next to me wearing a jeweled crown or a diaper. Either way if it's not appropriate, it's not appropriate and you are the one looking/acting foolish, not I. Although I will add that if you were wearing a marvelous jeweled crown made of the real stuff the other night when I was at Bonnaroo, I might have been a bit distracted if you know what I mean......

Most of my clothing comes from Goodwill & the Salvation Army for whatever that's worth.

Your disdain is not appealing, and doesn't help your cause.

The one who is actually "foolish" is the one who judges others to be foolish based on their appearance.

Fine then please go to Rays don't go to The Prime Rib, or go to the 9:30 Club don't go to the NSO, go to The Reef don't go to the Round Robin or try the Hawk and Dove instead of PX. I will not treat you with disrespect despite the disprespect you show to those around you and to the owners of the establishments that you would like to "grace" with your presence. I will keep my disdain (go ahead call me a snob) to myself if not my .

I'll go where I like; that's not your call. Don't like me not dressing up someplace? *You* don't go there. Or not.

If I don't like the dress code, I won't go there. If the dress code is not strict, I'm sure as hell not worrying about fashion. Fashion is shallow and silly.

The condition is called "social autism". Most outgrow it when they move out of their parents’ house. Eventually they understand the selfishness and self-worth of projecting the appearance of a boor in a society and what fundamental yardwork such as mowing the lawn, putting empty garbage cans away does to property value.

It's ironic that you talk about "projecting" here, when you're judging others.

When the restaurant has a dress code and you don't follow it, as Mrs. B points out above, that is disrespecting others. So you talk out of both sides of your mouth?

Where did I say that I do that?

Also, nice to meet you.

This whole thread calls to mind the apocryphal story of Jackie Kennedy who, while hosting a dinner at the White House, noticed that a guest was drinking from her fingerbowl. Rather than let the guest be ridiculed for her ignorance, Mrs. Kennedy then drank from hers.

Some use this story as the definition of true manners and class. Others would insist on their right to judge and find fault.

It may be wrong to dress inappropriately in a restaurant, but it is a far greater trespass to judge.

What I'd like to see is a real discussion on the violations of behavioral codes in restaurants that pass without comment, judgement, or outrage.

I have witnessed many well dressed figures browbeat, insult, denigrate and demean simple hostesses, servers and busboys--often with a real, vicious rage--just because they feel they can. (Rarely have I seen this from someone wearing jeans and a T-shirt, by the way).

That is where the real cause for alarm lies, for those who fear the collapse of civilization.

QFT.

Treat others with respect and consideration, regardless of how they're dressed.

You want to play dress up? Fine. I don't. Also fine.