dinwiddie

I don't know. Carla just has to go. She can't follow directions, can't cook, and whines. Besides, she is scary looking.

What kind of lunch weekend business ya think they could get in a shopping center located in "Little Israel"

Sorry but Mr.S and I have plans to celebrate his birthday at Palena tomorrow night. We may get to Nova Europa yet with my parents as they do enjoy eating there! I hear the restaurant draws quite the early bird crowd...

We haven't been in a very long time (note that my original post was in 2005) so if anyone goes, let me know how it is.

Yep, I would add to make sure you are not bringing wine that's on the venue's list. Also, in general, no everyday quaffers. Of course, there are restaurants such as Dino where corkage is allowed and encouraged but the list is so good and fairly priced that BYOB, in my case, rarely occurs. I do think that if the law in DC is no more than $25pb, it should be obeyed-it is the law after all. That said, I think a 2 bottle limit per table is reasonable unless special arrangements are made. Above all, as Joe says, tip well!!! Send a glass of the best wine to the chef.

Dino is very wine friendly. I've often taken a bottle (or 4) there, and we have held several wine dinners there. However, since he has such a great, and well priced list, I don't think I've ever been there when I didn't also buy a bottle from the list, usually one that Dean recommended. In my opinion, it is one of the very best restaurants in the country to go to if you are "into" wine.

We went a couple of days ago and enjoyed it very much. They were very lucky to be able to take over the space the Greek place had without having to make any changes. Same tables, plates, etc.

The food is very good. The only complaint I have is that they do not have a whole fish on the menu. We will definitely be adding Nava Thai to our Thai restaurant rotation along with Ruan Thai and Amana Thai.

Corkage is technically illegal in VA. The same in MoCo, but that doesn't mean that I don't know places where they will let me bring in my bottle, but I'm not telling the state about those places. I'm not sure how [shhhhh...] does it, as it is well known that they permit corkage. It may be something that is grandfathered in.

Actually [shhhh....] is one of Robert Parker's favorite places.

They don't? Because I know I've definitely paid corkage fees to bring my own wine when I lived in Charlottesville.

Did it change in the past 4 years?

Corkage is technically illegal in VA. The same in MoCo, but that doesn't mean that I don't know places where they will let me bring in my bottle, but I'm not telling the state about those places. I'm not sure how [shhhhh...] does it, as it is well known that they permit corkage. It may be something that is grandfathered in.

Dinwiddie, I'm sorry but we disagree on this. I totally agree with the comments above that if the corkage fee is not high enough the restaurants will simply do away with it altogether. I believe that at a certain level a restaurant will use 12 year old balsamic, "vintage" olive oil, violane nano arborio, Reggiano and many, many other costly ingredients that they can cut corners on knowing that a significant percentage of the people who come in will not know the difference. (Some Alba truffle dinners have more shavings of truffle than others...) These restaurants also depend on a margin from the wine they sell. That margin is necessary to offset what they charge for food.

I've posted for years about outrageously expensive wine lists from The Inn at Little Washington to the French Laundry. I remember once paying $125 or 130 for Terrabianco Campaccio (sp?) at The Inn. A few months later I picked up a bottle of the same wine at Costco for around $25. As I type this I am drinking a bottle of 2005 Columbia Crest Reserve which I just bought from Cecile's for $29.95. Internet prices start around $27 but with shipping it's still close to what Cecile's charges. The WS gave this 95 points and said that it listed for less than I paid. Can we guess what a restaurant will charge for this in, say, five years? $125? $150? A good argument to buy it, cellar it and then bring it to dinner and pay corkage several years down the road. Later tonight we are going to open a bottle of Leonetti 2005 cab ($65 from the winery) and see how it compares. The Leonetti is already $150 to 200 in restaurants where you can find it.

I think these are exactly the kind of wines you are talking about. I would certainly like to be opening them if I am paying $125 to 150 prix fixe and am willing to pay a corkage charge of $25 rather than $150 for a bottle to compliment the food. Especially considering what restaurants like The Inn and the FL will otherwise charge.

The problem is that the restaurant's margin is really small on the $125 prix fixe. I believe they really do need to sell the bottle for a lot more than they are going to make from a $25 corkage charge. (Well, maybe not as much as The Inn or the FL but they feel they can get it and what choice do we have if we really want to eat there?) If they can't make it then they are going to cut corners with the components of what they serve-which is exactly what I fear. Regardless of how well Keller might be doing at The Inn I've resigned myself to the fact that I am going to have to pay his price to eat there. I do NOT want him to cut a corner to subsidize the bottle I bring. Nor O'Connell. Nor...

Like yourself I drink a lot of wine-I have over 1,000 bottles now and if I had my way I would bring my own bottle to EVERY dinner that I have. But I believe that I can't. Occasionally, yes. But most times I'll order off of the restaurant's wine list. I may "drink down" to "afford" the restaurant but I still feel that I should be buying wine from them.

Last: there are some wines I CANNOT IMAGINE DRINKING WITH A MEAL. Dal Forno Amarone. Masseto. 2000 Lafite. '85 Solaia. I would and have drank Dal Forno Valpolicella with a meal. I've drank Clos Apalta. But not the Amarone. Not the '05 which was WS #1. I want to taste these by themselves.

I'm sorry we disagree on this. As far as the wine dinners which your group organizes I am certain that the menus are tailored to allow the margin the restaurant needs. Or, the price of the dinner is going to reflect the absence of a margin on wine to suppliment food. I've organized dinners, too. For myself the absolute priority of those/these meals is the food. The wine is secondary. I'm not willing to give an inch to compromise a single ingredient or a single course. I believe a "wine dinner" has different priorities. The wine is AS important or MORE important-even the commaraderie-than the meal. For this reason the menu is designed to compliment the wine or to ALLOW a significant number of bottles for corkage.

But if I am going to go with a group to, say, CityZen, Citronelle, Komi or a number of others I want the absolute best dinner that they can serve. That is my priority. I'll "drink down" or limit corkage if I need to in order to accomplish this.

Joe,

You make a reasonable argument. I agree, I don't go to Komi, Citronelle, or CityZen for any reason other than to have a great meal. But I don't go to those restaurants on a regular basis. My point however is that it is better to charge a reasonable corkage fee, and have someone come in to dine, than to overprice your list and charge a very high corkage fee, and have them go somewhere else. Empty tables cost money, and they make as much from a diner who brings a bottle and buys a meal as they do from the diner who comes in and looks at the list and decides to forgo wine altogether because of the cost.

On the other hand, many restaurants that I do go to regularly have reasonable lists and reasonable corkage fees. Like I said, I often (in fact more often than I take advantage of corkage) buy from the list, but I do like to take a bottle with me when I go if I can. Of course, I'm normally bringing something like a Kosta Browne, Littorai, Match, or Karl Lawrence to these. Wines that I can't normally find on a list, even though I could afford to pay for them if they were.

I am lucky enough to know several of the chefs at the restaurants that we frequent for our wine dinners. They have told me that they try to make sure we really enjoy our meal so that we will return on our own later, and tell our friends that we did so and recommend the restaurant to them. They want to showcase their talents and more often than not appreciate good wine and come out to share what we bring. It is only good business to have people who enjoy good wine, and thus are more likely to be 1) folks who appreciate good food, and 2) able to afford to eat out in "expensive" places, be impressed and want to return. And while we negotiate a price, it is not normally cheap, we pay for a good meal and usually get it.

Last point, I don't mind paying a reasonable corkage fee, and do so willingly, however, I will forgo wine altogether if the list is so oiver priced as to be obscene, and the corkage fee is $90 (like it is at Restaurant Daniel.) Yes, I've paid way too much for wine at TIALW, but the meal deserved a good wine. And yes, there are wines I'd much prefer to drink by themselves, but for the most part, a good bottle of wine is better with a good meal, good company, and the time to appreciate it properly.

Claiborne Pell. All I can say is thank you. I'm doing my best to give back, RIP.

Hear, hear. Anyone who got a Pell grant to go to college should raise a glass to a man who cared.

its amazing that they even created a law, or statute or whatever that prohibits an establishment from charging what they see fit for corkage, due to the loss of potential revenue from the diner bringing in their own bottle. the establishment should be able to charge whatever they want. go to French Laundry, and expect to pay 75.00. now alot of times it does get waved if you are the generous patron that likes to share, or understands they should also order something from the wine list out of courtesy and curiosity

Wine Guy,

As I noted, restaurants can chose whether or not to permit corkage, but in DC, you can only do so if you have an alcohol license. The DC government makes the limit on corkage part of the condition for a license. In Virginia, the government doesn't permit corkage, period (well with some very few exceptions relating to private functions). In Montgomery County MD, they not only don't permit corkage, restaurants can't sell any wine that isn't purchased through the county. The county is the only legal wholesaler and they jack up the prices about 35% over what other wholesalers charge. Sell wine that was purchased elsewhere, and you get fined or lose your permit to sell alcohol.

While I don't doubt that some high end places might just do away with corkage instead of bringing it down to what the law says they can charge, I think it would be a bad idea in this economy. After all, the type of folks who typically bring a bottle to a high end place can go elsewhere instead. Better to have someone pay the corkage fee than to not patronize your place at all. Let's face it. The kind of folks who can bring in a really good bottle of wine on a regular basis also spend a lot of money in restaurants. My comment was that if the law sets a limit, the restaurant that wants to offer corkage should follow the law. In DC you have to have an alcohol license in order to be permitted to offer corkage. So they also set a limit on what you can charge. While it is the restaurant's right to decide if they want of offer corkage, it is DC government's right to set a limit on it as a condition of you license.

I also find that the kind of places that have really high corkage fees also tend to have very high priced wine lists. I'd much rather go someplace where the wine list is reasonably priced. That said, I always make sure my server gets a tip that reflects some extra because I decided to take advantage of the corkage policy. I also tend to buy something off the list if I can (let's face it, I'm not normally going to buy a bottle and bring a bottle if it is just my wife and I) and I am just as likely to take advantage of a reasonably priced wine list as I am to take advantage of corkage.

I never try to bring something that is on a restaurant's list, I always call first to make sure corkage is allowed (unless it is someplace that I frequent often and know corkage is permitted and they know me), I don't bring cheap or crappy wine, etc. I like corkage because I like to be able to have food that goes well with what I have in my cellar and most of what I bring is not available on any list in town, regardless of how good the restaurant is, because it is made in very small quantities. So if I want to have it with a meal that complements it, I either have to go someplace that permits corkage, or cook for myself. Honestly, I'd prefer to have a chef make the meal for me than eat my own cooking, even though I'm a pretty good cook.

Most of you wine nuts on this board know which restaurants have no problem with people bringing wine. There are quite a few restaurants in DC that are always glad to have the wine group that I belong to come in and make an effort to get our business. We always spend well, tip well, and share our wine. And if we are treated well, we come back and tell our friends. I noted that MoCo doesn't permit corkage. While I do eat in MoCo restaurants (hey I live there) I seldom buy wine in them because the county also makes it difficult to have a good wine list at reasonable prices. (there are exceptions, but they are few and far between) I'd much rather do downtown and bring something really good with me than buy something mediocre at an inflated price. So it is my practice to patronize restaurants that are wine friendly. That means I look for places that permit corkage, have good (and reasonably priced) wine lists, and make an effort to match their lists to the food they serve.

Tabard Inn is romantic, but the food at Palena is heads and shoulders better.

I had always heard that DC law limited the amount of corkage that a restaurant could charge, but I had never been able to find the law. This morning I was reading Tom Sietsema's article in this Sunday's WP Magazine and he quoted someone from the DC AG's office as saying that Title 23, Chapter 7 of the DC municipal regulations regarding alcohol state that "the holder of an on-premises retailer's license shall be permitted to charge a corking fee not to exceed twenty five dollars ($25)."

The article went on to say that diners who find restaurants charging fees in excess of $25 can submit complaints to the chief investigator of enforcement, Johnnie Jackson, at johnnie.jackson@dc.gov.

Well, well, I know a couple of high end places that have quoted me corkage charges that exceed $25.

Now let us be clear, I have no problem with restaurants that decide they do not want to charge corkage, but if they do decide to do so, they should follow the law.

I'd also add that in my experience almost all restaurants in DC that permit corkage charge $25 or less (and most charge less.)

Now if we could only get Virginia and Montgomery County to permit corkage.

Last noght the kid made some awesome steaks and I opened a 2003 Karl Lawrence Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve Beckstoffer To-Kalon.

I'm watching the repeat of last week's episode where they go to Rochester, NY to cook for the Foo Fighters. All I can think is that if you dragged me to Rochester to cook turkey in the rain with a microwave while pretending its Thanksgiving in the middle of summer, and didn't let me shop at the flagship Wegmans I'd be really pissed.

I would guess that Wegmans didn't pay enough to be "featured" on the show. After all, this show is more about brand placement than cooking.

My wife and I go about once a month. I've never had a bad meal there.

I was in Tempe a couple of weeks ago on business and had an excellent meal at Atlas Bistro in Scottsdale. It is a BYO, but it is attached to the AZ Wine Company so you can buy a very good bottle of wine there and they will open it for you. (If you bring your own, as I did, I think they charge a $10 corkage fee.) If you go, be sure to try the fois gras dessert, it is heavenly.

If his other restaurants are any guild your expectations should be for good food and painful service.

I'm very suprised that Roberto Donna would open a restaurant in Montgomery County, knowing how difficult it is to have a decent wine list, or to be consistent with the wine, when you have to deal with the MC store as the only legal wholesaler.

I was picking up dinner at the local Jamacian joint around the corner and saw that they had pints of York Castle ice cream in their freezer for sale.

I made a point of having dinner at New Heights right after Logan Cox took over the kitchen (I was a big fan of John Wabeck and wanted to see how his replacement did). The meal we had (there were 6 of us at dinner) was excellent. All of us ordered something different, and everyone felt that the meal was excellent. So, from this foodie's point of view, the experience we had was 180 degrees different that what Tim Carman's article indicated.

Eden Center is a long walk from Falls Church Metro. There is a crab shack near the entrance, and it's pretty good.

Taste of Saigon is near the Rockville METRO in Rockville Center. They are fancier than many Vietnamese restaurants, but that reflects the French influence on Vietnamese food. I've always enjoyed my meals there.

Actually, I think you will find that most restaurants in DC are somewhat kid friendly as long as you are reasonable. Since this area has the highest level of two working professional couples in the country, and they are used to taking their kids out to eat, most restaurants will try to accommodate a child. That said, I wouldn't take a toddler to a really fancy place, and when I did take my son with us (he is in college now however) we usually went earlier than we do now. I'd look for Chinese restaurants (they usually love kids) and places that are not frequented by the business crowd.

Dean,

Unlike you, I eat dinner out, not lunch. Some of us have real jobs instead of chefing and smoozing with customers.

If you get the appetizer platter for two, it comes with ouzo.

There is a new Peruvian chicken place that just opened up in the Layhill Center at 14338 Layhill Road. We decided to try it out, and will definitely be adding it to the rotation. Excellent, juicy chicken, good sides (pay a little extra and the the plantains), some salads, and wonderful Empanadas. It is a family run joint, and I hope they do well. They also have Choripan sandwiches (Argentine pork and beef sausage) as well as salads and Buffalo style wings. Chicken comes in two styles, charcoal broiled or Herb BBQ (marinated with herbs and spicy sauce and oven grilled.) We had the Peruvian style this time, but plan to try the Herb BBQ next time.

I decided to make the 20 minute drive to Max's for schwerma this evening, but when I got there, they were out. You never heard so much kvetching and wailing over food. I ended up getting three falafel platters and an Israeli salad for the three of us instead. I watched them make the falafel so it was still warm by the time I got it home. Absolutely fantastic. The place was packed and lots of people were getting to the counter only to find out they were out of schwerma, so they either left (quite a few left) or huddled with their group and decided what else to get. I saw a lot of chili dogs, and they looked good, so maybe I'll try one someday, but not it they have schwerma available.