jayandstacey

The return of Navy hockey meant our return to Galway Bay.

Too bad - I ordered my normal corned beef and cabbage and was served something that was so far removed from the same dish that was served in the past.

Normally, the corned beef would be 2 huge blocks of tender, juicy, fork-cuttable red meat, nicely seasoned and slow cooked. Instead I got about 8 slices of dry meat that looked and had the consistency of an overlooked ham steak that then sat and dried out for a while. The outside of the meat had even turned that dark burgandy, like it was pan fried on a hot pan with no moisture. It was one of the worst meat dishes I've had in a restaurant of any kind of meat. Yeah, I ate it. It was just SOOO far from the expectation. Why didn't they just say they were sold out?

I wasn't going to say anything, because that's not what I do. Before we got the check, the waitress specifically asked - "two of you got the corned beef - how did you like it?" I told her that well, since she asked...and said how bad it was. She replied that they'd changed meat suppliers and she and some of wait staff were lobbying to change back to the old source. I thought she mentioned something about adjusting the bill, but wasn't sure.

Got the bill, no adjustment, full price/ $18.99 each, and the entire bill came to about $160 with tip (I gave a full tip).

I tend to give places two chances before giving up or saying something negative. I felt like the two chances were used up in the one visit.

I don't know if ownership changed or times are tight or what's going on. There are too many decent choices around that area to fall for that again.

On an up note, Navy won in an exciting overtime shootout and only cost $5 each.

When my kids leave the nest, I have a vision for my wife and I: Once the Super Bowl teams are determined, we will flip a coin to determine which team we'll become fans of.

We will then book a flight to that city (NOT the Super Bowl itself) and spend the weekend there - and a suitable dive/sports bar where we will watch the game. We'll buy the local jersey and live/die with the real fans.

I'm not huge into sports but some of my best sports experiences have been at such bars. Years ago I was hired to play at the on-campus Georgetown U bar the night of the NCAA championship game, the one with Patrick Ewing that Gtown won. The end of the game was a blur, literally, as I ducked under the equipment while the room erupted in flying beer cups, screaming and people jumping around mosh-pit style. It was as if a tornado blew through.

The best part of sport is that comraderie- and while it is guaranteed in the game venue, it can also be found in off-venue sites.

So maybe we'll go to Minnesota or NYC or San Francisco in late January...but we know we'll find someone to cheer with and collectively, we'll either feel the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat.

Excellent advice and last night she was moved from the hospital to a rehab center. Her sister is a nurse, and her sister-in-law a hospice nurse; they've weighed in. We're in good hands and you were right.

I'm glad you said that TPN could go on for many months if necessary- it wasn't until I read that that I realized my fear was probably there: that she'd just fade away in 3 weeks on TPN. Either she'll eat--or they'll figure out why she can't, or neither happens - and she can survive all it. She might not...but hey, we're all going to die someday.

We're also getting second opinions on the stomach issues, though I suspect that using time (as in, let's see how this works, now let's see how this other thing works) is best in the long run. It's just so damn hard to see her there and not want to FIX IT. NOW.

Thanks Don and Mr(s) Porcupine.

My mother is really ill and seems to just be 'floating'.

To explain: She had some abdominal issues that got out of hand, resulting in sepsis and surgery.  In the month since surgery, she hasn't eaten.    She originally went to a rehabilitation center after surgery, but with no eating, there's no energy available to spend on rehabbing.  Her mind is pretty sharp most days while her body has withered.  She's back to the hospital now and getting IV nutrition and undergoing tests everyday...

It has me questioning - what is life?  Where's the line between life and...not life?

I visit and talk to her...and the doctors are searching for a solution.  It just feels like a cycle that we can't figure out how to break.   A bit of eaten food would maybe give her a bit of energy, which would give her some ability to rehab a little bit, even if just lifting her legs.  In turn, that might stimulate some more hunger and the cycle would improve every day.  It's like we're stuck on the shoulder of freeway, watching all the other cars wiz by when all we need is a spark to turn the engine the first time.

At what point does a person decide that they're on the exit ramp, not the shoulder?

I'm not the hard core foodie some of you are and I've never wanted a person to eat - just a bite or two - like this before.  This life in limbo, represented by the lack of eating, seems awful.  You all seem to have every food answer.   I could use one now!

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Like any other piece of information, this could be helpful in some ways, hurtful in others and of course it won't be long until someone games the system.

it didn't seem like this was real-time data, more 'trends' over time. (Right?) I think this may help a place in the long run by load-balancing when people show up.

To take it to the extreme, Walt Disney World seems to be a place where having hourly attendance information is vitally important to avoiding crowds...attentive planning, including knowing which park at what hours, can maximize a visit. Conversely, WDW marketing goes to great lengths to fill in more sales in the low and "shoulder" periods both within a single day and within the season, effectively reducing the impact of planning around low times. I suppose airlines do this also, but by wide variations in pricing vs promotions.

Interesting

I actually thought of this and agree with you in theory.  But a plumber services one customer at a time, whereas a server takes on say 5 tables simultaneously.  Tables are going to get grumpy if a server spends more time at one table than another, it won't be a very relaxed atmosphere which hurts the diner.  Also, are we going to keep stopwatches going?  Are we going to agree on the stop/end time?  Is it fair that I pay more for a medium steak rather than a rare steak?  I agree that it is more fair under your model, but I think that would really ruin an experience to be so cognizant of the time spent on food delivery and how much time we are taking up at a table.

Yeah, that's kind of my point - although we end up in the same place (a total that includes money that will go toward the service) - we would not accept such a system in a restaurant as it gives us the impression that at least something's "off" and at worst we're being taken. It's weird and makes me ask questions, which is not always desirable when talking $$.

But if we say the presentation doesn't matter; only the total: then this model of service paid by the diner/hour would be just as viable as any other, right? My suggestion is that the presentation does matter, even if we end at the same total.

Interestingly, I might see where Sally's has a unique problem where the prices seem SO low that maybe people would be less likely to tip - like they were in a fast food environment. Again, I'm all for ensuring a wait staff is paid an honorable wage and not penalized when a cheapskate visits. Their system is fair in that regard and isn't horribly bad. I just think the Pittsburg example shows how far that can go if tips are eliminated entirely, to (apparently) everyone's benefit.

In the US, I experienced a true "no tip" situation at the full service meal counter at Wegmans. We can't compare a Wegmans to a non-chain restaurant.... I remember getting my tip back with a feeling like "oh yeah, Wegmans employees are notoriously happy- and now I am too"

That, and McDonalds

I've never met Don yet I seem to make him mad occasionally. [Not true at all. DR]

That's a reasonable alternative, but that still invites confusion as to why there is no tipping, and endless conversation from well-meaning concerned diners of the "are you sure?" variety.  And I am not a fan of short statements or manifestos when I go out to eat, a bit pretentious.  A service charge, especially with the 18% specificity, is the most transparent and concise way to communicate that no tips are necessary.  

Instead, it invites cynicism for some.  Which is my point - since changing the model will cause confusion no matter which path is taken - why not take the path that leads to happy surprises (no, you really don't have to tip..), instead of unhappy ones (well, when we said no tipping, we meant instead it comes as a service charge)?

The cruise industry has a similar 'auto-tip' process.  But even there, they have an opt-out path - you can ask to have the tip removed or modified.  Is there an opt-out here?  Should there be?

A lot of digital ink was spilled on this board about the potential tax implications of the service charge...all without actually knowing what they are.  It seems like something that one might choose to seek out the answer to before getting upset and implying shadiness on the part of a restaurant's owners in a public forum.

No - I'm not in that business.  If I walk in, I'm the customer.  They've made two choices:

1. To stand out - both from other restaurants and from other businesses.

2. To suggest that this is for the betterment of employees vs what other restaurants do, yet not do what the majority of other (non-restaurant) businesses would do, which is to simply charge a price and sort it out in the office.

I'm not implying shadiness, I'm asking why they chose THAT path over a true single price.   Were they afraid of how the raised prices would look?  Are they taxed differently?  Do the employees prefer this?  Is there some other driving factor?

I appreciate the want to better server's lives.  And I know these models: tipping and paying a flat price.   I'm instead asked to participate in a new model of the "service charge" - why is a new model required here to accomplish the goal?   That's what I'm asking.

BTW, in the case of plumbers, those are labor rates based on hours spent on the job - not a markup over the cost of the materials (as with the service charge).   In the case of restaurants, that would in some ways make more sense - a "wait rate" that is $x per hour, charged by how long you sit at your table and how many people you have.   Isn't that in some ways more in line with their actual delivered service, and the opportunity cost of the waitstaff?   Why wasn't that model chosen?

white flag?  So soon?

You gave up on the chance to say:

I just suspect that it is 20% of the way there

Don't you mean 18%?

To be clear and fair - I do think the service charge is an improvement over traditional tipping.  I just suspect that it is 20% of the way there - and has the downsides I've indicated above.

And I feel restaurants have more pricing flexibility than they think - I'm not mentally haggling over a $14 vs $17 entree, especially if I know there's no tip or fee coming at the end.

I don't disagree with you, but nobody has addressed what I've said about taxes being an add-on, about gas stations being leaders in "what you see is what you pay," etc. From the consumer's point of view, it shouldn't matter if it's a tip, a service charge, or a tax.

It shouldn't, but it does.

People rarely act perfectly rationally in economic situations.    We'd like to think that consumers don't care except for the bottom line, but they do.   If I pay $20 for a meal, should it matter how that was derived?   Theoretically, it shouldn't.  Practically, it does.

So let's address this from the perception standpoint.

1.  Taxes - taxes are different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, are a legal mandate and we all generally dislike them.  They also tend to be minor (less than 10%) and tend to be added as a separate lines in many, many places.  I'm conditioned to 'roll over' on taxes.   In fact, when I see "prices include all taxes" I tend to think it is because the place has manual registers or does rapid, cash based transactions like at an ice cream stand or a gas station.

2.  Gas stations - I think you mean that gas stations don't add an additional tax line, or any other line.  I agree with that approach where feasible.  I also sense that gas taxes are so high that having a separate tax added at the end might be really bad for business.  And it is a fairly unique business - fairly heavily regulated and VERY commoditized.  Their price sensitivity is down to the penny - the opposite of restaurants.

To me, the answer is simple:  If we want to do away with tipping, then the whole concept needs to go away...both in front of the customer (ie, no service charge) and with the employees (salaries and maybe profit sharing, not splitting service fees.)

The service fee smacks of one thing to me:  Ownership that is protecting itself first.  My guess is that $1 collected as a service fee and distributed amongst the servers is treated differently from a tax perspective than $1 collected as a sale and filtered to employees through a salary.   If so, owners would argue that $1 that isn't taxed (or taxed less) means more they can flow to the employees.  BUT - I'd say it means they get to avoid the tax in the first place and it leaves me (the patron) with a sour taste in my mouth, as if I'd been asked to pay some part of the bill in cash / under the table.   It also means that the servers still aren't "solved" here:

- Their income is still variable to that week's collection of fees and is never predictable,

- worse, it is now capped at 18% and distributed evenly between the weakest and strongest performers.

So I go back to the original question:

If a place is serious about supporting the waitstaff - why can't they do so with a real no-tipping policy and real salaries for the employees?   Sure, there's risk in that - but there's risk in every such business and the owner's risk is offset by their unlimited potential to pocket all the profit, franchise, etc.   Why is this the one line of business that seems to want to pawn so much of the risk down to the wait staff?

Like it or not, removal of the whole tipping genre will involve raising prices by 18%, in some form or another.

By all means, come up with better suggestions on how to implement it - I'm sure the industry will be interested in hearing your viewpoints.

I've been saying for years that I will support any restaurants that take the risk to do away with this ridiculous tipping system we have. I have done so, consistently, with The Swiss Bakery, and will continue do so with Sally's Middle Name. It won't have any effect on their Dining Guide rating, that much I can promise you, but I will continue to be a vocal advocate of restaurants that provide better base pay for the people that need it the most: prep cooks, line cooks, dishwashers, runners, busers, hosts, and even sous chefs and AGMs (AGMs being the profession that perhaps gets hosed most of all because they're often college-educated, don't get paid squat, work 60-70 hours a week, and do not participate in the tipping system). Not chefs, not GMs, not bartenders, and not servers, many of whom make six figures while their harder-working co-workers are living in poverty, often without insurance, retirement, or other benefits. Their bodies give out by the time they're 50 years old, and then they're replaced with younger workers and forgotten.

I don't mind prices going up by 18%.  Or by 400% or whatever.

The solution is simple:

- List the price of the menu items.

- Have a no-tip policy.

That's it.

Begin to include separate line items for "service charges" and such and now I'm feeling nickle-and-dimed, and I'm also feeling like the option to not tip was taken from me.   Just charge $x for an item, with no special extra charges, and I'm fine (no matter what the price is for that item).

This is perception, not math.

I get that when I pay for an item, part of what I'm paying goes to purchase the ingredients, part goes to pay the rent, part goes to make the next payment on the restaurant owner's new car.   That's fine and true of any retail store.  I also get that some restaurants cost more than others, sometimes MUUUCCCHHH more.   The value is in the experience, to include the food, the ambience, the service and such.

So why am I asked to segregate a line item specifically for the service in a place that is touting to be an alternative to tipping?   Is the restaurant trying to meet a particular price point for the menu items?   Are they trying to avoid revenue taxes by treating that money differently?

Flip it over - let's say you go to a hardware store and get some advice, then you get a 18% service charge added at checkout...what?

How about they just raise their prices accordingly and leave it at that?

Decent restaurants aren't super price sensitive.  They aren't.  I'm not saying they can't charge just anything...but as the Pittsburg example shows us, I'm sure there could be 18% or more room for price increases if the perception is positive...and isn't the restaurant business, as a hospitality industry, heavily reliant upon good perception?

18% service charges aren't the antidote to tipping.

Sorry, but I believe the average diner will simply see this as forced tipping.  How is this different from the "18% gratuity for parties of 6 or more" which smacks of "we don't trust you to tip appropriately in these situations, so we'll force it."  This seems forced and while the intent to pay the staff better is honorable, the execution seems doomed to fail.   
 
And I don't think it will have an appreciable difference in terms of "upsell" for a few reasons:
1. Aren't there other places that pool tips, or at least share tips (i.e., the busser is tipped by the waiter)?
2. They are still incentivized, just in a less direct way
3. There is a lot of research (you can Google) that suggests that the extra $1.50 isn't an incentive.  What might be a more powerful incentive is that the upsell is taught and then recognized by management, and a pat on the back is earned.   Seems a little counter-intuitive but I believe the 'upsell' is due to a list of factors, of which the $1.50 incentive is low on that list, if it is at all.   
 
So, the real root question.  Why don't they just build it into the price?  It can't be simply the accounting effort.   I suspect rather it is a tax issue - they'd rather not pay the tax on the revenue as if it were like the rest of the f&b revenue.  That's my guess and if I'm wrong...well, again, the execution of this led me to think about why the rigmarole.  As noted above, just charge 3.80 and give me a drink that costs me 3.80.   Every other retailer has figured this out.
 
(edit - PS, I've never been to this place.  I'm commenting on the concepts only. I am for the removal of the whole tipping genre...but this doesn't seem the way to do it)

I believe the risk of such public information is offset by the flood of it.

If the only thing published was this report - yeah, that's an issue when/if misinterpreted.  But so long as the inspecting agency publishes ALL of its work like this, then the casual reader (who's most likely to misinterpret) fades this to noise.  As does everyone else.

Now - if this restaurant kills people or burns to the ground, then a reporter may go back and pull this info out, looking for patterns or foreshadowing.  But...the inspecting agency's job is of course to keep that from happening.

Such a tangled web you weave.

They are in Carroll County.   At the restaurant, the county line runs down Hill street, just behind them.  The line then joins and runs on Main Street just south of the restaurant.

I'm so very sorry.

Maybe Laurienzos needs a thread too? I feel like I might have started one before, or at least threatened to.

I haven't been to the Clarksburg location either- I'm not sure how any business succeeds in that particular area (hyattstown). Maybe enough people live up route 75...

Anyway, in Mt Airy they do a decent business. The pizza is ok- though it is not the "hand tossed and charred" version that is in favor now. My favorite dishes are apps- their "Shore Shrimp" are swimming in Old Bay and some oil suspension...sounds gross but is addictive. Their seasonal butternut squash ravioli are also very nice.

The Mt Airy location features dark walls and a kind of sophisticated feel, which stands out when you're that far out (it should be noted that the Internet ends only about 5 miles north of their restaurant). They always have plenty of staff that may not be super polished but are nice and not overwhelmed. Overall, a nice neighborhood place.

I suspect so - and they are live-work units.  Very different dynamic. 

The rumor is that Vasilis is moving to the diner spot. Anyone else hear this rumor?

Yes, that will happen. They will take a while to build out - maybe until 2016. They will remain open in the old spot until then and have a quick transition. I don't know if Vasilis has their own thread but what a great neighborhood restaurant.

Yeah, they're done. From what I read, a payment was coming due and they just decided to hang it up vs trying plan B (or E or L as the case may be.)

There's a simple problem here - lack of density. That whole section, from Buca to Wholefoods, should be 4-5 story buildings by the master plan, but the owners (Beatty I think) aren't willing to re-develop (yet). So it's really tough for anything to mak it there. Brasserie Beck is struggling, the diner closed, etc. Some others seem to do OK but not gangbusters. Vasilli's might be the exception. Rockville Town Center, Crown and Rio have all seen significant investments while Kentlands sleeps and chews up attempts like this.

I'm not saying that mediocre places should succeed despite themselves, but that location is cursed.

Jersey Mike's was not found in the Multiple Locations Dining Guide, so I thought I'd fire up a thread...

I like this place and would rank it ahead of Potbelly in the subs/sandwiches category.   The standard, to me, is the Italian Cold Cut (ICC) and I use that as my benchmark when comparing places.   Jersey Mikes follows what I call the 'wet tube" philosophy, where an ICC sub is would tight and has lots of wet stuff like shredded lettuce, oil, vinegar, mayo and 'hots'.  Contrast this to the loose and relative dry subs at White House subs in Atlantic City, NJ - and you'll get the drift.

Growing up in Rockville, the great submarine war between Ollie's and Twinbrook Deli produced an endless supply of great wet tube ICCs.  They still do and if you can't get to Rockville, Jersey Mike's is the next best thing.   Being a huge chain, of course there can be some variation between locations but in my experience the food is pretty consistent between the 5+ locations I've visited. (the people making it, not so much.)

I recommend asking them to go light on the oil and vinegar; sometimes the bottles are mistaken for cocktail mixers...and the sub suffers.  But if done right, you get a tangy ICC that's sloppy but not disintegrating.

You may disagree below

I read that Oceana study and while interesting - it doesn't name names...at least not that I could find.   You'd think they'd name at least the restaurants that did NOT lie or blend or whatever.

But another question I can't seem to answer - let's say I'm in a restaurant and want to confirm the crab provenance.  How do I?  Assume I don't have a DNA testing machine with me.

And I guess the better question is...does it really matter?  I know I've had both Bay crabs and foreign crabs - and I can tell the difference, but not in a significant enough way that trumps other variables (like freshness, preparation, etc.)   And while I support the local economy...is it such a bad thing that less crabs are taken from the Chesapeake right now?

Note that I'm not an advocate for foreign crab.  I'm just weighing the pros and cons.   Mr. Gold has provided some definite things to consider here.

So let's say I want Chesapeake caught crab.  Do I ask to see the can?  A shell?  How do I avoid blends?

And ultimately the point of these questions is that I believe that if some change is to happen here, it will be because consumers demand it, not because it should simply be legislated.

Real Estate values are relative, and the name is important to setting the "tone" for the property values of the area.

I therefore propose either "East Beverly Hills", "North Boca Raton" or "South-south Manhattan".

That or go with the Jon Taffer approach with Piratz Tavern and call it "Corporateville"

....

* Tom Rush is likely your man and no doubt great at his job.

All good points - I suppose someone in every group effort has to take disproportionate credit.  Or blame, as the case may be.  The chef just tends to be the face of the group.

Tom seems pretty young.  Good on him.  I find the whole GARG thing fascinating.

Film is an anagram of Milf.

I guess we've gone a bit off-topic.

I sometimes struggle to keep myself between the navigational bouys. 

GAR's oysters are most enjoyable.  I wonder how much of a force they are in the oyster market, how they buy, etc.  It would make for a neat biopic story, I think (unless it would just mirror the same story written about Legal Seafoods or McCormick and Schmicks...)

Shoot - I kind of did it again.