TedE

I am blaming my gullibilty on insomnia.

Or the lingering effects of jet lag ...

Well played, sir. Well played.

I'm in for the Latour. I'll go halfsies if anyone else is interested.

Its long been my contention that Biddy's succeeds at being the best Irish bar in Washington by not 'trying' to be an Irish bar. They usually have a high proportion of Irish staff, and the fact that aesthetically its like many hotel bars in Dublin is comforting.

I never even really thought of it as being an Irish bar, just a good hotel bar with an Irish slant. I get the same vibe at Mackey's. As an actual Irish bar I wouldn't put either in the same league as the Dubliner or Nanny's.

A search on their site reveals that (shock!) all of the Fado's in the U.S. are pubs-from-a-kit, but surprisingly not Ri-Ra. I'm sure that there is a competing company responsible for those. The only other establishment that shows up for DC is Biddy Mulligan's.

Are we talking quality of the vegetables or the quality of their preparation?  Regardless, I don't agree with the assertion that  the restaurants in the catgory we are talking about here provide a different quality, either of the vegatables or their preparation, between their vegatarian offereings and their non-vegetarian offerings.  If anyone wants to go down to Restaurant Eve and tell Cathal Armstrong that, please send me a PM before you go so that I can be down there to watch.

Good lord, a tad defensive today are we? Please re-read what I said. All I was saying was that according to the complaints listed in this thread and elsewhere, yes, many restaurants do not appear to take the time to prepare interesting veg offerings. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't that the WHOLE POINT of the article that started all of this? I don't doubt Cathal takes great care preparing all items regardless of genetic makeup. What I'm hearing is that is clearly NOT the case for all "white tablecloth" establishments in D.C.

Sheesh!

Is that what this is all about, a quest/demand for a 50/50 split on the menu?  I'll be long gone from this world before that happens.

No, not 50/50 split, just equal care and attention paid to the quality of the veg and a slight increase in diversity of the offerings (say two instead of the "obligatory" one). At least that's what I got from the tone of the article. I'm only basing that on the complaints raised here and those I've heard from vegetarians in the past.

People keep mentioning there's no demand -- there is SOME demand for vegetarian entrees, otherwise, why are high end (and other) restaurants even offering a vegetarian option on their menus (whether it be portobellos or otherwise)?  Or why do some chefs, as someone mentioned above, feel they "have" to offer one?  I would say that demand for vegetarian entrees (not just from vegetarians but from those who are trying to eat less meat due to health reasons) has risen over the last ten years and that's why so many more restaurants are now even offering a vegetarian option.  This is particularly exhibited by the fact that several high end restaurants are offering vegetarian tasting menus, which I can't imagine was the case in DC 10 years ago.  Hopefully this trend will continue to develop, and now that the vegetarian option is on the menu (and possibly fueled by Bob's article), the quality of it will improve.

Bingo, although I would add, as has been borne out by the article, many of the places that do offer veg options now seem to have done so because they "have" to. Some places take it a step further and produce something extraordinary, but across the board the care and attention devoted to the flora has not met that of the fauna. What can cause the shift towards equilibrium is the 64,000 carrot question.

I don't agree that vegetables share the same transportation challenges that fresh fish does.  Most of the chefs we are talking about here would not think of trying to serve out of season produce shipped in from a different climate.  Let's face it, you can't get good tomatoes or corn unless they are in season.

I think they do share some of the transportation challenges, just to a different degree. Nobody is arguing that the chefs we are talking about won't take advantage of local produce when it's possible. The same thing is true with seafood; soft shells and shad roe are available in some frozen form year-round, but I wouldn't expect to see them on the menu. Chefs will wait for them to become available locally, same as tomatoes and corn. What I was trying to say is that there is a wide range of produce out there that is never available locally, but has been made available on an almost year-round basis due to advances in growing and shipping the product. That's pretty much analogous to the boom in seafood consumption and my corresponding guess about some of events that may have played a hand.

What's a D.C. veg-producing chef to do in the winter then? Root vegetables for everyone? No, they will supplement with whatever high quality product then can get in, from wherever it is shipped (not to say that this cannot be done to a great extent on the local level, as Eve seems to do, but the infrastructure to do it on a large scale to suppply a large number of restaurants just doesn't exist). Chefs and restaraunteurs, please correct my BS if I'm completely off-base here.

Why shouldn't the same cycle begin with vegetable cooking?  If chefs stop treating it as an afterthought or something they "have" to offer -- which many still do -- thier offerings will expand an improve.  Demand will climb as vegetarians eat out more and omnivores order incrementally more such dishes.  With practice and by stealing ideas from one another, the level of cooking will rise and so on.  And vegatable cooking will no longer be a niche art, but just another skill that chefs master and make available to their grateful clientel.

A good point, but it still comes down to what has been re-iterated over and over in this thread: demand. Hasn't reached critical mass yet.

Your analogy with seafood is interesting though. I think the rise in consumption also had loads to do with advances in efficient harvesting methods, leaps and bounds in sustainable aquaculture, and most importantly advances in shipping and transportation. Without FedEx and the like you wouldn't be able to get a decent piece of mahi in Chicago. [sidebar: anybody read that article in the New Yorker a while back about UPS and the lobster industry? Totally fascinating!]

Now, produce shares the same challenges, most of which seem to have been overcome. Not to mention the abundance of good produce that can be obtained locally in season. Will the story turn out the same as it did for seafood? If enough chefs get behind it in this town it just may. Without economic incentive I don't see it happening. Ironically, places like Vegetate may actually hurt the cause if they are serving uninteresting or tasteless food and hoping to get by on the novelty or niche-filling characteristics of an all-veg, upscale menu. If they fail, the next person to take stab might look back and say, "Gee, this was tried before in this town, and it didn't work out. Not gonna take the chance".

I'm going to make a point of trying Green Zebra next time I'm out that way. Sounds intriguing.

This all has been touched on a bit in other posts, but I wanted to add my $0.02. What do vegetarians want to see on menus to make dining out a less repetitive and more engaging experience? How could places like Vegetate and Viridian, whose entire existence is predicated on pleasing this underserved segment of the dining public, improve their offerings? If these places can't succeed, dare I ask if there is something else we're missing here? Or are they just that crappy?

I second the opinion that limited choices in WTRs may be somewhat based on the cuisine that, like Vegetate and Viridian, they were designed around (classical French vs. Indian for example). I wouldn't expect a classically trained French chef who considers duck fat a basic ingredient to be my first choice for preparing a vegetarian meal. If you choose to exclude ingredients from your diet that many chefs use to express their creativity then it is true that you are limiting the resulting choices that are going to be offered to you. I agree that those choices could be a bit more varied, but maybe chefs just aren't interested. It's a shame, but dems the breaks as it currently stands. As has been repeated ad nauseam, the status quo will remain as such in this town until there is sufficient momentum to push it further towards another end of the spectrum.

Again, it comes down to demand, and, yes, to the general culture of D.C. high-end dining in general. I'm also somewhat confused as to why places like Zaytinya are not considered "white tablecloth" quality. Because they are not true top-end, destination dining, blow your budget establishments?

Last point and I'll stop rambling. I was in a long-term relationship with a vegetarian and did a lot of cooking in our household. What I learned from that experience is that I had to be jack-of-all-trades, master of none in the kitchen. One recipe that would work would be a Thai dish, the next an Indian curry, the next a soup, the next a stir fry, etc. etc. etc. This can't be expected of a restaurant; it will serve whatever type of cuisine it will serve. Absent a menu whose background incorporates a multitude of vegetarian dishes (Indian, etc.), you will get what the cuisine has to offer. That's not to say that chefs can't innovate, but my guess is that they started a particular restaurant to serve a particular cuisine.

Mark your calendars - Tuesday, March 14 (it's not as far away as I think it is!)

Any firm word on what will be on tap (or, more importantly, on cask) at the opening?

Hi Ted.

So, is it true that Blue Heaven has new management?  If so, how's the food now (we always loved it before)?  I also heard 7 Fish has new owners and is not as good - - do you know anything about that? Do you have any other new recommendations?

I know it's too late for your trip, but for next year: on the drive down, try Morada Bay Cafe in Islamorada for lunch. Also, the Islamorada Bakery Cafe has great baked goods and breakfasts. Leigh Ann's in Marathon has great con leche and chocolate happies.  In Key West, I think Kermit's is better than the Blonde Giraffe for key lime pie on a stick - - extremely delicious in my opinion.    For the best brunch, drive over to Little Palm Island on Sunday (well drive to their reception center and catch the shuttle out to the island) - - expensive but worth it.

Not sure about the Blue Heaven management change, but it was a little off when we dropped in for lunch (service issues mostly, but then again it's never been the most attentive service). I could have sworn the menu was changed, but I may have been confusing it with the brunch menu. I think we'll only go back for brunch the next time down.

We did hear about the ownership change at 7Fish, but didn't notice any drop off in quality.

B.O.'s was everything I'd expected. Best fish sandwich down there.

We really didn't cover any new ground except Conch Republic Seafood Co.; won't go back, there's no reason to pick it over the Half Shell.

If we can tear ourselves away from the Keys Fisheries we might try Morada Bay

If you are ever in Baltimore look up Albert Kirchmayr. He used to be in a tiny, almost invisible from the street, brick building next to where the Eddie's supermarket is on N. Charles St. just across the city/county line; I think he moved to Towson somewhere after he expanded. The old place was literally a shack. The "line" would be out the door if there were more than 2 people in it!

These are the real deal, hand-made European chocolates and truffles. My mother used to get custom chocolate bowls from him for desserts at dinner parties.

You can get them boxed at various places in Baltimore (Belvedere Market comes to mind), but I would strongly suggest heading to the source; never know how long the boxes have been sitting around. I haven't had any in a few years, and it looks like he's doing a lot more corporate work, so hopefully the quality hasn't suffered. Seriously some of the best domestic chocolates I've had.

Edit: link for A. Kirchmayr Chocolatier. You used to be able to hand pick your assortments at the shop, don't know if that is true anymore

We'll be in Rome very briefly in March (my first time to Italy). Any recommendations for a quick, late-ish dinner near Termini station?

The set-up: due to the lack of cheap, direct flights from Madrid to Rome we'll be getting in to Fiuminico around 7:30PM just to meet up with others the next morning to rent a car and head for the countryside. We may just stay at the airport to avoid lugging bags back and forth. If we time it right we should be able to take a train into Termini (getting there 8:30 or 9:00), have a quick meal, and make the last train back to the airport (leaves 10:45 or so).

So, any recommendations for good, cheap, delicious, and preferably within walking distance to the station?

Someone earlier said they supposedly don't do this on the Japanese version.

Based on info from the eG link looks like I heard wrong. The original show also gave the chefs choices ahead of time. Somehow I remember that the choices for the Americanized version had been simplified a bit (whether by offering fewer choices or making them more compatible with a single pre-prepped menu, crab vs. lobster as was mentioned earlier).

Or I could be basing all of this conjecture on hearsay and fuzzy memory, which I am.

This is all purely 2nd and 3rd hand knowledge, but as I understand it the American Iron Chefs are given a list of three possible ingredients beforehand, from which one is chosen at tape time. So it's nto unheard of for them to have 3 separate menus prepped. Apparently the original Japanese version did not have this advance notice (no prep) but a very brief (30 minutes or less) "organizational" period which is edited out of the taping. Again, I have no actual knowledge of this, just culled from various user accounts of varying veracity.

Joe H, care to validate or shoot down, either in part or in whole?

ETA: I just told my colleague where we were going, and now he's not so excited. Granted this is all second-hand, but he said they are very condescending to all patrons, and that the quality of your meal will vary greatly depending on what the owner thinks of you. He has been "many times" and "it is not a very friendly atmosphere, because they are so judgemental". He said that the food can be "unbelievable, if they like who you are with".

That's the vibe I got, but it didn't quite reach condescending levels. Disinterested? Anyway, if the food we received was far inferior to their absolute best I can't imagine how amazing it would have been were we not gaijin off the street.

Straights of Malaysia on 18th brought them out at the start of the meal when they first launched. Haven't been back in awhile to confirm if that is still true. Some of the apps came with them as well (dips, etc)

This place is across the street from my office. I've eaten there exactly once (lunch bento box). It was 3-4 years ago, but I remember it being very, very good. Price tag was $25+ though. It wasn't the friendliest place in the world, either. I don't mean it was unfriendly, but I got the vibe that regulars are catered to, newbies not so much (asked if we had a res and then made to wait when it was clear that they didn't have that many on the books, long wait for the check, no check backs, etc.) I have been meaning to go back and try it again, but the combination of price and reception has kept me away. Seems like it would be a great place to be a regular.

Anybody have a link to more info on this? I had heard rumors of TJ going in up where the Adams Morgan Harris Teeter drama is unfolding, but this is the first I've heard of a Foggy Bottom location. This is fantastic news; and, yes, it will be slammed from the get go. Any word on whether they will have a liquor license?

Edit: Nevermind, answered my own questions: West End TJ's.

It will be seeking a license to sell beer and wine, and is expected to open in the first quarter of 2006.

Having experienced it last night, I would say that a spot in front of the fireplace at Birreria Paradiso would do nicely.

For some reason big snows make me think dive bar. I've spent more snow days at Fox and Hounds than probably anywhere else in the city. Millie and Al's, too. They're cozy, just not fireplace-cozy.

There isn't much good sushi around, other than Cafe Asia, so this could an excellent development.

Uh, Kaz is only 4 blocks away. I consider that more than just good ...

I'd say go to the BlackSalt market on Monday and buy whatever is fresh and piques your interest. Ask the counter folks what they would recommend for said dish if you don't have a prep method in mind.

More specific suggestion (what I'll be doing on Tuesday): mussels sauteed with leeks, garlic, tomatoes, white wine; maybe leave out the butter to finish the sauce, or cut back on what you would normally use. Quick and easy stew-y goodness, plus mussels are just plain fun to eat.

This place is right next door to DC Coast, is it not?  There seems to be another club in that area , between DC Coast and Corduroy on the north side of K Street, that attracts similar clientele.

Isn't it actually called "K St"?