dgreen

With the caveat that I haven't read the Atlantic article or the book:

Uh, seriously? Only fat, dour women go to good restaurants?

Read the article. That's not what he's saying. That's just a "headline" for the basic idea that restaurants that have the hip, good-looking following are likely more interested in offering a great scene rather than great food. They probably aren't raking in the customers because of the food. The food is solid and good enough to keep people coming back, but it's more about the "look at me" scene.

So the book is sitting in my Kindle but for those who would like a preview, there is an article in this month's Atlantic Monthly (May 2012).

It lists Tyler Cowen's six rules for dining out. The first:

"In the fanciest restaurants, order what sounds least appetizing" has me baffled.

What is least appetizing is a very individual thing. For instance, I hate prime rib. It is going to be the least appetizing thing on a menu for me, but most people love it.

It's not really about "what sounds least appetizing to you as an individual." It's about "what sounds least appetizing to people in general." This advice isn't necessarily for the average DR forum poster.

His logic is also contorted. He says that at a fancy restaurant, the menu is well thought-out and so an item won't be there unless there is a good reason for it. He offers roast chicken as an example - with the apparent reason being that it is a familiar item that they know people will order. But then the chef won't have much incentive to do much other than offer the tried-and-true. He implies that the chef is more likely to lavish creativity on less popular items.

His comment about an item being on a menu for a good reason is in regards to the "least appetizing" dishes. They are on the menu because they are likely a chef specialty and should be good even if it's something the typical diner doesn't think will be good. Roast chicken is on the menu because many people are scared off by the "least appetizing" dishes. They are there because that's what many people will order and not necessarily because the kitchen makes a really good roast chicken.

Some older guys at work, now retired, used to go to The Shady Oak every Friday. I joined them once and was immediately turned off by the smell the second I walked in the door. I seriously doubt it was urine that I was smelling, but whatever it was smelled similar to urine. So, unfortunately, I associate The Shady Oak with urine.

Sounds like it might have some cool history, though.

Has anyone been here lately? I'm thinking of giving it a try tomorrow.

We go every once in a while. Still solid. My wife was actually there a couple nights ago. She ordered the chicken mole enchiladas. She order them every time she goes. EVERY. TIME. She reheated some for lunch the next day and was commented on how much she likes that dish.

The one unwelcome thing I've seen in *every* CFA store, though - regardless of location - is that the inside *always* has a noticeable amount of houseflies.

Wow, I've never noticed that.

I've experienced the other things you mentioned, though. The drink refills has been something I've experienced for a long time, but the trash service is something that more recent (in my experience). Another thing I noticed recently was employees (usually the ones walking around for refills, etc.) have full conversations with customers. I think my local Chick-Fil-A is pretty popular with moms of young kids. I know for a while my wife would meet friends there on weekday mornings for breakfast and to just hang out for a while. They get a lot of repeat customers and I think they really make an attempt to get to know those people. That's something you typically only find in small, local mom-and-pop places that have their "regulars" and not in a franchise with thousands of locations.

See my post above with the zip code map. Zooming in on the location shows it's clearly just inside the Centreville 20120 border.

Hey, look, there are two threads. One in Chantilly and one in Centreville!

Us locals would say it's in "Westfield." Aguaymanto is on my radar screen too, looks very interesting.

Agreed. All the employees around that area have successfully labeled it as Westfields. I've seen that address referred to as Chantilly and Centreville, but this zip code map puts it in Centreville (20120).

Also, should this be considered Centreville even though it's technically Chantilly?

It's technically Centreville.

While Aguaymanto was empty and they were begging for business Tuesday night, they had a decent Friday lunch crowd. Wife and I each ordered the $5.99 lunch special. It was a quarter chicken, salad, and fries (french or yuca). It was served with that spicy green dipping sauce and the white mayonnaise-based sauce. At that price, I really have nothing to complain about. The chicken (I chose white meat) was very moist, but could use some more seasoning. The $5.99 price included a soda. I'll go back. I'm a sucker for low-cost meals!

The waitress, who possibly was waitressing for the first time, said they have karaoke and wine tasting Friday nights.

Also, Scotto's Riggatoni Grill is closed. It is being replaced by an Argentinian place.

We went to Foster's the other night. Before walking in, I went by Aguaymanto to look at the menu. It's Peruvian. Menu looked good and prices looked very reasonable.

The place was empty and the owner (I assume) came out to invite us in. We told him we had told the kids we were going for burgers, but that we'd try his place sometime. He then went straight to "You don't like, then you don't pay." I think they really need the business.

I think we're going to try it out for lunch tomorrow.

We are going to a wine dinner at the Ashby Inn later this month and need some help. We are staying two nights at the Inn. So do we eat there on the 2nd night also? I think I know dancole42's answer. I am not sure what else is around there except the places in Middleburg. Maybe goodstone inn? Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. I will report back after the wine dinner, but after reading above expectations are high!

The closest is going to be Hunter's Head Tavern in Upperville, just a few minutes from Paris.

Now it's a nice value at lunch, but I wouldn't pay dinner prices.

The three-course $9.95 lunch is a really good deal. I'm not sure of many better lunch values in Fairfax. I fully expected to leave hungry for that price. Sure, my steak was really tiny (probably for the best; I eat too much red meat), but added to the mash potatoes, corn and andouille sausage hushpuppies, and banana moouse and it was more than enough food. And only $10!

Might be helpful if they added a menu to the website.

Is it just me or does the restaurant industry in general just suck at websites? Yeah, some places have great sites, but it definitely doesn't seem like a priority for a lot of restaurants.

...reasonable (but not inexpensive) prices given the quality of the grub.

Quality AND quantity. The lamb shank was huge. Of course, I don't have an extensive lamb shank history to compare it to, but it was much more meat than I was expecting.

The place was packed tonight...

Good to hear because it was far from packed when I was there July 24th. We arrived around 6 and were the only ones there. Maybe 15 minutes later, a table of 3 arrived. Another 15 minutes and a table of 2 sat down. And maybe a little after 7, another table of 3. We left around 7:30 and that's all we saw.

Still open, somehow. Every time I've been, the place is empty. Tonight, I got carry out and there was only a party of 3 dining in. I hope they're doing ok and can stay open.

People like to talk about the importance of buying local and quality ingredients, but, in reality, the vast majority of the people notice price more than anything else. AF is expensive. It's even more expensive if you consider that many people consider it to be in the pizza market. I can either get wonderful flatbread that feeds one person (maybe two) for $22 or two good large pizzas that can feed my entire family (five people) for about $25. If I'm just looking for pizza, that can be a no-brainer.

Now, I realize many will say that AF's flatbreads aren't your normal pizza. And I'd agree. They are better. But, how much better? Also, to most people (the millions of people who are the types who would never spend time on a site like this), it is "just pizza". Granted, it's tastier pizza with some interesting toppings you don't find elsewhere, but it's still "just pizza" to a lot of people. We all know tons of people who still order Dominoes or Pizza Hut or Papa Johns. They're cheap, they deliver, and to many they are "good enough". That's how most people live. They would never even consider driving 30 minutes to Ashburn to pay $20 for a personal pizza. It's difficult to be lumped in the pizza cuisine while charging nicer restaurant prices.

Unfortunately, I don't live near either of the AF locations. I'm sure I would have gone much more often if I did. The couple times I went, I loved the flatbread. But, the price and location just kept it off my personal radar. I wish it was sticking around so I could wander over there once a year and remind myself how I wish I lived closer and had more money for stuff like that. I also wish it was sticking around because it's been one of the restaurants I've liked to recommend to people.

Other than being from Korea, is there going to be anything Korean about the burgers? Kimchi topping?

And the "Cuban" burger? Off the hook...

My favorite so far. Pretty sure I've had the Greek, Cuban, Southwestern, and Wellington. Cuban's the winner so far. I guess some day I should just get a good ol' cheeseburger or bacon cheeseburger.

I'll buy your next BGR !

I, too, had a poor experience.

Ok, so I was just craving a good burger and was mildly disappointed with the Southwestern. I just wasn't thrilled with the bbq-like texture. Maybe if it's what I was expecting, then I'd have been all over it. I'm sure there's something in this thread about the texture, but I haven't really kept up with this thread. Really good flavor, though, and the onion rings were good as usual.

My wife's brother and his family were in town. We spent the day in DC walking from one end of The Mall to the other (and back) and my wife and I convinced them we should go for burgers. Since we have three kids and they have two, BGR was the clear winner over Ray's since BGR offers good options for kids. So, we hit the Old Town establishment. Everyone loved their burgers and it successfully capped off a long, tiring day.

Seems strange starting a topic about a closed restaurant. I was in Clifton yesterday and notice the Heart in Hand all closed up with a For Rent sign in the window. According to their website, they are moving to Warrenton and, I assume, will no longer be called "Heart in Hand". Maybe they'll just have the name "Alwyngton Manor" as the website suggests? So they may just be catering events at the manor and not really be a restaurant anymore? It's hard to tell what's going on there. In any event, Heart and Hand is no more in Clifton, VA. Probably not a coincidence that they are leaving soon after the arrival of Trummer's.

Not the best dining experiences in my most recent visits there. I hope something great replaces it.

Have you tried Bistro L'Hermitage in Occoquan/Woodbridge? No idea if it has a "connection to the neighborhood", but the food was good the one time I went.

Updates? I'm going to a concert at the Patriot Center next Thursday. I'll be leaving Bethesda around 5:30 & we will have some time to kill before the show. I know absolutely nothing about the area so easy to get to is a priority.

There's nothing good in University Mall (right across Braddock Road from the Patriot Center). That means you'd have to make a slight detour somewhere along your route and eat at least a few minutes away. Anything in particular you are looking for?

Alternately, does Patriot Center allow tailgating?

From here (PDF file):

Tailgating is permitted in Lots A & K. Please make sure

your tailgate set-up does not impede traffic flow or

take up needed parking spaces. Charcoal grills are not

permitted, and tents need to be secured or dismantled

if left unattended.

The family hit the Springfield/Burke location Sunday night. It was pretty crowded, meaning we had to wait a few minutes for a table to become available. I had the Cuban and the wife had the Wellington. We were both very pleased with our burgers. I think they're the perfect size. They don't leave me hungry, but also don't make me feel horrible when I finish a whole burger. I wasn't really impressed with the fries. Nothing really wrong with them, but they didn't blow me away. Adding the parmesan on top was a nice touch, though. The double chocolate milkshake was good, too.

I'm generally disappointed with kids meals at restaurants. At BGR, they do a good job with the quality of the food, but the portions seemed really small. It worked for my 3 year old, but not so much for the 7 year old. When I have to pay nearly $20 for all three kids to eat, I like when there's a good amount to take home for another meal. Not a huge deal, though. The kids don't mind. They enjoyed their dinners and actually did take a little bit home for a snack later. It's their cheap dad who minds.

Also, one kid ordered the grilled cheese instead of the sliders. It didn't appear that they touched a grill. I could tell that something had begun the melting process of the cheese, but that was about it. A couple tiny buns with a couple tiny pieces of cheese in it. Again, not a big deal. The kid loved it. But, again, seems like a rip off to their cheap dad.

Overall, a great place and we'll go back plenty. I just grow cheaper and cheaper the more expensive my kids get.

Thanks for the advice. Is this Chinese menu literally another menu or is it just a particular part of the menu? Do I say, "I want the Szechuan menu"? We ordered off the Chef's Specialties, so I assumed I was ordering the good stuff. I expected it to be dumbed down, but I didn't expect it to taste bad.

When we arrived, there were very few people in there. There was a table of mixed-race folks in their 20s and a table with an older white couple. We are white couple in our 30s. As more and more people arrived, I noticed we were likely receiving different treatment. Every Chinese family who entered was immediately served hot tea. We weren't and I didn't see any of the other non-Chinese tables with tea. It appeared that some tables were brought food without even ordering. It's good to be a regular! It's disappointing to not get what you want, but I definitely wasn't offended by anything. Live and learn.

I'm open to trying again. But, being a shy introvert, I don't enjoy having to request special treatment especially if I'm not likely to get it anyway. Not to hijack this thread in a direction other than China Star...but I will briefly. I've noticed Korean restaurants tend to be very upfront about treating me differently. My wife and I have been warned, "Are you sure? That's really spicy." Or, once, we were flat out told, "No, you don't want that. It's too spicy." I prefer that upfront approach to the approach of just not even making certain things available. It at least presents the options to you instead of hiding the options. Anyway, thanks for the advice and I hope these comments don't derail this thread.