Can Key Signatures Have A Character? Is D-Minor Actually Sad, and F-Minor Actually Ominous?

[Mark Slater]

I like that such a happy song is performed in the (normally) sad key of F-Minor.

f minor is not a sad key, it's an ominous key. The perfect example is the gambling scene in La Traviata, after the Gypsies and Matadors dance, when Alfredo enters, the key immediately shifts to f minor. I can't stand listening to Happy, by the way. It has no tune.

[DonRocks]

f minor is not a sad key, it's an ominous key. The perfect example is the gambling scene in La Traviata, after the Gypsies and Matadors dance, when Alfredo enters, the key immediately shifts to f minor. I can't stand listening to Happy, by the way. It has no tune.

I've often wondered about things like this. "D minor is the saddest of all keys," for example. Why?!

Is it because of the actual key, or is it because well-known songs have been written in that key that evoke the reaction? (Obviously, there is a huge distinction between major and minor keys in general, so that's not even worth discussing.)

When I think C-Sharp Minor, I instantly go to the Moonlight Sonata. Just now, I thought of D Minor, and went to the Bach Keyboard Concerto. F Minor, the Appasionata Sonata.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? That it's the songs written in these keys that give them a reputation, and not the keys themselves?

Are you talking about the first scene, the tavern scene, in La Traviata (after the high divided strings in the Preludio)? That's the first opera I ever saw, by the way.

[Mark Slater]

No, the last scene in the second act. The concept of keys signatures having emotional qualities goes back to the late Renaissance and early baroque when Meantone tuning was prevalent and equal temperament (like we have today) didn't exist. In Meantone the keys really are "colored" much more dramatically. D major has a real exuberance, G major is extremely bright. F minor, by the way, is unusable in Meantone tuning because of all the wolves.

[DonRocks]

No, the last scene in the second act. The concept of keys signatures having emotional qualities goes back to the late Renaissance and early baroque when Meantone tuning was prevalent and equal temperament (like we have today) didn't exist. In Meantone the keys really are "colored" much more dramatically. D major has a real exuberance, G major is extremely bright. F minor, by the way, is unusable in Meantone tuning because of all the wolves.

Right, but when is the last time you've heard something in Meantone?! (Let me guess: This morning, on your digital harpsichord.)

There aren't five people who are going to understand this.

[Mark Slater]

Don, I'm sure we've had this discussion before.

Also, on Amazon search "Beethoven in the temperaments". It may be out of print.

[DonRocks]

Don, I'm sure we've had this discussion before.

We have.

The physics behind harmonics can lick me, and I *still* don't quite understand why - if you tune every note perfectly, then the fucking piano will be out of tune!

"It's because a scale isn't exactly a scale."

"AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I've had this conversation many times, and at some point, I always hit a wall.

[porcupine]

I've often wondered about things like this. "D minor is the saddest of all keys," for example. Why?!

Is it because of the actual key, or is it because well-known songs have been written in that key that evoke the reaction?

According to How Music Works by John Powell (Little, Brown and Co., 2010), the answer is that it's not the actual key.  I read this book several years ago, and am not inclined to go searching for actual quotes to support my recollection, but as I recall he explains that perfect pitch is nothing more than memory, much more common in native speakers of certain Asian languages; most Westerners who acquire it do so before the age of six as a result of musical training (this is physiology -nature and nurture, you could say).  He also spends many pages discussing the myth that different keys have different moods, and how that myth likely arose.  [okay, I did go and look it up; the chapter is titled "The Self-Confident Major and the Emotional Minor", the section is headed "Do different ET keys have different moods?"; p. 175 in my edition.]  It's pages long and refers to previous sections of the book for supporting evidence, but the short answer is that if you think D minor is the saddest of all keys, it's because you have perfect pitch and have associated D minor with particularly sad pieces of music.

There's a lot of physics in this book, too.  It's one of the most annoyingly-written books I've ever read, but chock full of really good, sound information.

[DonRocks]

According to How Music Works by John Powell (Little, Brown and Co., 2010), the answer is that it's not the actual key. I read this book several years ago, and am not inclined to go searching for actual quotes to support my recollection, but as I recall he explains that perfect pitch is nothing more than memory, much more common in native speakers of certain Asian languages; most Westerners who acquire it do so before the age of six as a result of musical training (this is physiology -nature and nurture, you could say). He also spends many pages discussing the myth that different keys have different moods, and how that myth likely arose. [okay, I did go and look it up; the chapter is titled "The Self-Confident Major and the Emotional Minor", the section is headed "Do different ET keys have different moods?"; p. 175 in my edition.] It's pages long and refers to previous sections of the book for supporting evidence, but the short answer is that if you think D minor is the saddest of all keys, it's because you have perfect pitch and have associated D minor with particularly sad pieces of music.

There's a lot of physics in this book, too. It's one of the most annoyingly-written books I've ever read, but chock full of really good, sound information.

When I was a baby, my mom discovered I had perfect pitch because I would crawl over to the piano and play the exact same notes as my older brother. She claimed it was before I could walk or talk; I have no memory of it happening.

Matt does not have it, and he has much more musical training than I ever had (as an aside, I picked him up today from Fort Myer - he just finished spending a three-day internship with the Army Band).

In my case, it's *absolutely* because I have perfect pitch and have associated D minor with particularly sad pieces of music (e.g. walking out of the Cathedral in Nice after Member #1's service, they were playing the Mozart Requiem! (yes, D minor)) - it's for this very reason that I'm incapable of giving any credible opinions on the issue.

[DonRocks]

Chris Holfelder transposes "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" from major to minor:

[DonRocks]

F minor, by the way, is unusable in Meantone tuning because of all the wolves.

Can't they tune in Meantone using F minor as the "base" key? I always thought Meantone was based around whatever key you wanted the most perfect, and the further you get away from that key in the circle of fifths, the worse things become, but honestly, that has always been an assumption based on limited knowledge.

I still don't understand how all this works, but I will in a month or two because the book I'm studying is *perfect* for this - you should get it and let me know what you think. Email me your address and I'll send you a copy.

[DonRocks]

I've often wondered about things like this. "D minor is the saddest of all keys," for example. Why?!

I figured out why.

Because Nigel Tufnel says so!

[The Hersch]

From the October 19, 2015, New Yorker: