Whole Foods Recalling Some Cheeses Sold In DC

[Pat]

December 21st entry. They come from Sally Jackson Cheese in Washington state. There's more information on the specific cheeses under the December 17th entry.

The description doesn't seem clear enough to identify which cheeses are affected if you already have them in your possession, however, except maybe for the grape and chestnut leaves detail. The name Sally Jackson may appear on some scale labels.

The Post article has additional unsavory details

[Waitman]

More troubling in the long run, Sally Jackson has elected to shut down rather than bring her facilities up to standard. She'd have a stronger case of "Big Government v. The Little Guy" if her cheese hadn't been linked to eight cases of e-coli.

She was a pioneer and will be missed.

[Toogs]

nevermind

[johnb]

More troubling in the long run, Sally Jackson has elected to shut down rather than bring her facilities up to standard. She'd have a stronger case of "Big Government v. The Little Guy" if her cheese hadn't been linked to eight cases of e-coli.

She was a pioneer and will be missed.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why she should be missed. Anyone that sloppy should not be praised, but jailed. If what the article says about her care in making her cheese is true, what she did IMO crosses the line into criminality. And it apparently had little to do with her "facilities," and much more to do with her practices.

I'm also amazed that this incident hasn't brought anyone out to comment on two obvious facts. Fact one is that the small and local exemption in the recently passed food inspection law can be seen for what it was, political and not scientifically-based. Small and local producers are just as able sell contaminated food products as the big boys--the main difference is that the damage they do, by definition, is small in volume so does not as easily get on the media radar screen--this incident is obviously an exception.

The second is that, however better tasting raw milk products may be (and I agree, and buy raw milk cheese when I can), such products are risky. Louis Pasteur was on to something, and wishing it weren't so won't make it go away. Based on the articles one doesn't know whether the raw milk aspect was part of this particular incident, but whether or not it was the point remains worth contemplating.

[Waitman]

I'm sorry, but I don't see why she should be missed. Anyone that sloppy should not be praised, but jailed. If what the article says about her care in making her cheese is true, what she did IMO crosses the line into criminality. And it apparently had little to do with her "facilities," and much more to do with her practices.

I'm also amazed that this incident hasn't brought anyone out to comment on two obvious facts. Fact one is that the small and local exemption in the recently passed food inspection law can be seen for what it was, political and not scientifically-based. Small and local producers are just as able sell contaminated food products as the big boys--the main difference is that the damage they do, by definition, is small in volume so does not as easily get on the media radar screen--this incident is obviously an exception.

The second is that, however better tasting raw milk products may be (and I agree, and buy raw milk cheese when I can), such products are risky. Louis Pasteur was on to something, and wishing it weren't so won't make it go away. Based on the articles one doesn't know whether the raw milk aspect was part of this particular incident, but whether or not it was the point remains worth contemplating.

She'll be missed because she made great cheese, and set out to do it when few Americans even made the attempt. She was a pioneer, a strong woman and a true artisan. We eat better because of Sally Jackson.

And hey, in 30 years she only poisoned 8 people. Some restaurants do that in an afternoon.

[johnb]

She'll be missed because she made great cheese, and set out to do it when few Americans even made the attempt. She was a pioneer, a strong woman and a true artisan. We eat better because of Sally Jackson.

And hey, in 30 years she only poisoned 8 people. Some restaurants do that in an afternoon.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Another is that "true artisans" are careful with their craft. Viewed through that prism, I wouldn't say she qualifies.

Maybe she just got sloppy in her old age. I can relate to that. We should all know when to quit.

[deangold]

Shes been making cheese for years. Inadequate hand washing may not mean anything {it can mean the incorrect positioning of a hand sink, an empty tpowel dispenser} and manureon the floor is the likely source of the e coli.

There is no medically documented case of raw milk cheese killing anyone. !000's of folk die every year from the factory made food most consume. We in American have worse outcomes from food borne illness than Europeans, very possibly due to our indiscriminate use of antibiotics in the meat production business {80 percent of the antibiotics used are in poulty and cattle raising for non theraputic uses} which render our bodies less well able to fight off infections and the resultant bacteria more deadly. Of course, no one is threatinging the poultry producers whp are killing us thru this antibiotic use.... of course not, they pay off the prostitutes that write the food safety bills and then hire the people tasked with inspecting them.

Defend the big agrobusiness fuckwads all you want, I am willing to take a chance on raw milk cheese.

[johnb]

Shes been making cheese for years. Inadequate hand washing may not mean anything {it can mean the incorrect positioning of a hand sink, an empty tpowel dispenser} and manureon the floor is the likely source of the e coli.

According to the article the manure was on her clothes. And I seriously doubt the hand washing problem was a misplaced sink. If she had manure on her clothes it's pretty obvious how it got on her hands.

There is no medically documented case of raw milk cheese killing anyone.

Nobody said there was. I was talking generally about raw milk. Here is what the CDC says about raw milk:

Can drinking raw milk hurt me or my family?

Yes. Raw milk can cause serious infections. Raw milk and raw milk products (such as cheeses and yogurts made with raw milk) can be contaminated with bacteria that can cause serious illness, hospitalization, or death. These harmful bacteria include Brucella, Campylobacter, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis, Salmonella, Shiga toxin-producing E. coli, Shigella, Streptococcus pyogenes, and Yersinia enterocolitica. From 1993 to 2006, 69 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC. These outbreaks included a total of 1,505 reported illnesses, 185 hospitalizations and 2 deaths. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater.

Defend the big agrobusiness fuckwads all you want, I am willing to take a chance on raw milk cheese.

Me too. Just as I said above. And I wasn't defending anybody. Contrary to what you might think, pointing out the risks of raw milk does not constitute defending the "big agrobusiness fuckwads." And why are you always incapable of making your point without foul language? It's unbecoming and unnecessary.

[Chef Tom]

According to the article the manure was on her clothes. And I seriously doubt the hand washing problem was a misplaced sink. If she had manure on her clothes it's pretty obvious how it got on her hands.

Nobody said there was. I was talking generally about raw milk. Here is what the CDC says about raw milk:

Can drinking raw milk hurt me or my family?

Yes. Raw milk can cause serious infections. Raw milk and raw milk products (such as cheeses and yogurts made with raw milk) can be contaminated with bacteria that can cause serious illness, hospitalization, or death. These harmful bacteria include Brucella, Campylobacter, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis, Salmonella, Shiga toxin-producing E. coli, Shigella, Streptococcus pyogenes, and Yersinia enterocolitica. From 1993 to 2006, 69 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC. These outbreaks included a total of 1,505 reported illnesses, 185 hospitalizations and 2 deaths. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater.

Me too. Just as I said above. And I wasn't defending anybody. Contrary to what you might think, pointing out the risks of raw milk does not constitute defending the "big agrobusiness fuckwads." And why are you always incapable of making your point without foul language? It's unbecoming and unnecessary.

Why the attack on Raw Milk?

Beef, Pork, Produce, Poultry, Seafood, Beverages, and Breads & Bakery and Pasteurized Dairy have all had more outbreaks and illnesses than raw milk.

source: http://cspinet.org/new/pdf/outbreakalertreport09.pdf ---- page 20

This is a human issue not a raw milk issue.

[deangold]

Note that he has not addressed the issue that in order to fatten the owners of poultry and beef growers, we are using 80% of the antibiotics in this country for agricultyre. Ever hear of MERSA and other antiobiotic resistant bacteria John? This is the shit is killing in the 10's of thousands of people. Where the fuck is a drop of outrage at this?" No its Sally and 8 cases of stomach illness that fucking KILLED no one! Where is the fucking outrage at the owners of the medical firms that promote the stupid use of antibiotics to enrich the poultry and meat interests? Nahhhh, lets take Sally out and fucking shoot her and all will be well.

[goodeats]

[Deep Breaths!]

Some people are not fans of raw milk. (See this thread.)

What johnb has said isn't unusual and he is allowed to voice his concerns, just as deangold and Chef Tom can, but play nice! Pile-ups are no fun.

Hold off on the qwerty here.

[Waitman]

Why the attack on Raw Milk?

Beef, Pork, Produce, Poultry, Seafood, Beverages, and Breads & Bakery and Pasteurized Dairy have all had more outbreaks and illnesses than raw milk.

source: http://cspinet.org/new/pdf/outbreakalertreport09.pdf ---- page 20

This is a human issue not a raw milk issue.

This statistic appears to be wildly misleading. It is almost impossible to get your hands on on raw milk, and raw milk cheeses are consumed only by a tiny number of daredevil food snobs like us who are willing to risk their lives and pay exorbitant prices for artisanal curd. On the other hand, all the other categories (save seafood) are consumed by most Americans on an almost daily basis.

[johnb]

[Deep Breaths!]

Some people are not fans of raw milk. (See this thread.)

What johnb has said isn't unusual and he is allowed to voice his concerns, just as deangold and Chef Tom can, but play nice! Pile-ups are no fun.

Hold off on the qwerty here.

Thanks for your thoughts but I'm not concerned about these two jaybirds. They both seem to miss the essential point. This is a thread about carelessly-produced raw milk cheese, not about every other real or imagined problem with food production in the US. I brought in raw milk because it's pertinent to the topic at hand. If Dean wants to go off on one of his typical foul-mouthed tirades about antibiotics he can do that, but his choice of venue, and particularly his phraseology, are not a complement to him as a thinker or as a person. I stand my ground.

[Chef Tom]

Raw milk availability is controlled by each state. Some states allow retail sale, some allow on-farm sales, some allow no sale at all.

Misleading statistic? Always a possibility but the "raw" numbers show the actual number of food borne outbreaks and illnesses broken down by category.

[johnb]

Misleading statistic? Always a possibility but the "raw" numbers show the actual number of food borne outbreaks and illnesses broken down by category.

Tom: It's a well-known, scientifically-validated fact that probabilities are a difficult concept for the human brain to process. I know nothing about your abilities in that sphere, but many have a hard time with it, and that includes me at times, so allow me to provide a simple purely hypothetical example to show how folks can go wrong, especially about raw numbers, in making decisions on these things.

Suppose there is a hypothetical food product, let's call it Ding Dings, made by Mega Agro Industries. 100 people get sick every day from eating a Ding Ding. There is a very similar competing product, called Dong Dongs, made by Local Art Farms, and only 1 person gets sick daily from eating one. Based on your reasoning as I read it, you would suggest that Dong Dongs are safer, because hardly anyone gets sick from them. 100 to 1, right?

But what if we add the (obvious) information that Mega Agro produces a million Ding Dings per day, and Local Art produces only 200 Dong Dongs. A quick calculation shows that the probability of getting sick from the Local Dong Dongs is in fact much higher, only 1 in 10,000 for Ding Dings but 1 in 200 for Dong Dongs, or 50 times greater. It's pretty clearly safer to stick with Mega Agro Ding Dings from a safety standpoint. This is what Waitman was pointing out.

Of course these numbers are purely hypothetical and only meant as an illustration. But I think if one had the actual numbers on raw vs. pasteurized milk and dairy products, which I don't, and ran the numbers, one would come to a similar conclusion.

[Chef Tom]

Exactly.

We don't know all the facts and percentages and so on.

In this case, yes, this raw milk cheese was contaminated but no evidence shows that the milk was the cause. So why blame the milk?

We have this week Salmonella in cilantro and parsley - do we blame the cilantro or parsley? or the grower, picker, packer, repacker, shipper, etc.?

We also have, more locally, since Nov 1, Salmonella found in organic alfalfa sprouts - do we blame the sprouts? or the grower, picker, packer, repacker, shipper, etc?

We all want a safe food supply. If it's tainted, take it off the shelves. Find the cause, punish and fix.

But don't eliminate a whole product category, please.

If you have a fear of it - don't buy it, don't eat it.