John McEnroe (1959-), Former World Number One Tennis Player - Most Open-Era Singles and Doubles Titles

[DonRocks]

You all should get a bang out of this. The first part of this video is *fantastic* - it shows (in great detail) John McEnroe playing Eliot Teltscher in a tight college match, then in a professional doubles tournament with Arthur Ashe, then the most detail of the 1978 NCAA Championiships I've ever seen, with McEnroe against John Sadri in the finals.

[DonRocks]

I suspect a lot of people haven't seen this video because it's English, but it's well-worth watching - whereas the above (American) video focuses on McEnroe's tennis; this one focuses more on his temperament - they are very opposite in tone: The above video portrays him as a genius; this one portrays him as something of a sociopath. Both have footage I've never seen anywhere else, and analysis that's second-to-none.

 

[DonRocks]

At the beginning of this video, I was surprised to hear both Pete Sampras and Jimmy Connors (two people I've seen say less than flattering things about McEnroe) praise him to high heaven:

[DonRocks]

On 7/11/2016 at 11:15 PM, DonRocks said:

At the beginning of this video, I was surprised to hear both Pete Sampras and Jimmy Connors (two people I've seen say less than flattering things about McEnroe) praise him to high heaven:

At the 19:55 point in the Charlie Rose interview, (see the previous post) the topic comes up of Jimmy Connors walking off the court in Dallas - I found the match, and McEnroe had every right to be furious about the line call: He got totally hosed. 

Here's the match, and the moment of controversy begins at 26:50. This is high entertainment at its finest:

 

[DaveO]

A while ago I revisited some old videos of McEnroe.  Its so enlightening.  McEnroe, playing with a wood racquet played a completely different game of tennis than is played now.  Of course all who played in McEnroe's era and before played a game that is completely different than now.  Mac is different at still another level.  His strokes were revolutionary, his touch was "the best" and his ability to place shots, especially shots at the net was so utterly magnificent.  He was a spectacle.

But the review was at least for me a complete knock in the head.  The game is completely different.  I find it impossible to compare today's best players to those of the past.  It might have been called tennis then and now, but its a very different game requiring different skills to take advantage of different technologies. 

Nevertheless watching McEnroe is always entertaining.  He had a different touch, feel, and look than anyone else.  He reigned supreme for a while.  And of course at any point he might have erupted in a crazy frenzy which simply added to the entertainment and/or might have gotten you to love or hate him even more.

I find it hard to get involved in the best of all times discussions.  Definitely in tennis.  Possibly if it was redefined as something like best of TennisA (one technology) best of TennisB ( a newer technology) and so on such discussions would resonate.   Regardless, McEnroe is fun to watch and he was a magnificent supreme player.  I guess a one of a kind.

[DonRocks]

On 8/2/2016 at 1:52 PM, DaveO said:

A while ago I revisited some old videos of McEnroe.  Its so enlightening.  McEnroe, playing with a wood racquet played a completely different game of tennis than is played now.  Of course all who played in McEnroe's era and before played a game that is completely different than now.  Mac is different at still another level.  His strokes were revolutionary, his touch was "the best" and his ability to place shots, especially shots at the net was so utterly magnificent.  He was a spectacle.

I've also been spending a great deal of time watching old videos of McEnroe, most recently the 1984 Masters Finals against Ivan Lendl, which was McEnroe at his finest. The man was unbelievable, and there's never been another player like him that I've seen, not even Federer. I'm not saying he's "better" than Federer, but certain artistic components of McEnroe's game were simply unparalleled - it's a joy to watch him play (watch the third point of that match for a classic McEnroe-Lendl confrontation). In 1985, he *bageled* Lendl in the second set of the Masters Finals - how do you beat Ivan Lendl 6-0?

Johnny Mac's biggest problem is that his window of greatness was only open for a brief time, having Borg before him and Lendl after him, both fierce competitors who trained to get into the best possible condition that a human can be in. Lendl was also the first player who really took advantage of carbon technology, and I would argue was the first "modern" player - someone who wailed their serve, stayed back at the baseline, and wailed their forehand. In turn, McEnroe was the last of the serve-and-volley players (*), because serve returns got so lethal, that nobody could approach the net any longer. Again, I'm not saying Federer can't volley, but Federer has an all-court game, and there's no way he could rely on the volley as much as McEnroe did.

McEnroe will also be remembered for his game much longer than his comportment. It isn't fair to tennis players that they can't take out aggression like other athletes do - I understand that tennis, like golf, is traditionally a "genteel" game, but stick an NBA player on the tennis court, and watch the fur fly when there's a bad line call (John Lucas being a notable exception to this). I distinctly remember a lecture by Don Budge (yes, Don Budge) when I was a 12-year-old at his tennis camp: He said that people used to serve underhanded just to put the ball in play, and then some American (I don't remember who) began serving overhanded and aggressively - the British press apparently commented about how "rude" this person was (**). I haven't Googled this to check when it happened, but I have no doubt that if Budge said it, the story is true. Fifty years from now, if not a lot sooner, McEnroe's temper will be considered tame when compared to the tennis players of the future - I may be wrong about this, but I don't think so. In fact, it's remarkable how well-behaved the current crop of tennis players are, and I don't see it lasting forever.

John McEnroe was one of the greatest ever.

(*) I take that back - I forgot about Pete Sampras: Sampras-Agassi was a transitional period of tennis, with both styles of play having a legitimate chance to win on all surfaces.

(**) Ironically, serving underhanded is now considered rude.

---

ETA - I just fact-checked the origins of the overhanded serve.

Aug 28, 2011 - "How the Serve Went Over the Top" by Geoff MacDonald on nytimes.com

[Steve R.]

Yeah, the Brits have a big problem with rude -- pretty much explains why they couldn't beat a ragtag bunch of upstarts in the Revolutionary War.  "Damn them... they won't line up like proper soldiers so we can shoot them".

At any rate, although my personal taste for Johnny Mac is way less than adoration, I really do have to admit that he has an unbelievable feel for the game that's almost (if not totally) unrivaled, including by Federer (my favorite player ever).  McEnroe has consciously built his brand, so I don't think anyone really knows the person (unless, of course, you know him) and he's always on stage in public.  However, even when the games are scripted (as the exhibition sets I've recently (2 years ago - with the WTF now defunct Sporttimes) seen him play against Borg and Agassi have clearly been), he comes thru with some unbelievably creative shots and has court sense above and beyond.  BUT... I just can't agree that "McEnroe will also be remembered for his game much longer than his comportment".  I know too many younger players (younger being relative & I, regrettably, have to include those around 40 in this category) who have no idea how he played, but know all about his personality.  Maybe once he stops being a commentator and is completely gone from the tennis scene his comportment will fade to the same remembrance level as his playing, but that won't be for awhile.  And his brand is as vibrant and colorful as Bud Collins' is/was so I won't hold my breath.