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Posted

OK. So does that mean "green onions" are synonymous with....scallions for $500?

I think the distinction is geographic: we called them green onions on the west coast; they are referred to as scallions here in the east.

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Posted

I think the distinction is geographic: we called them green onions on the west coast; they are referred to as scallions here in the east.

It varies by geography globally too.  Those scallions/green onions are shallots in Australia.

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Posted

Those scallions/green onions are shallots in Australia.

Why do they have to fuck up *everything*?

In all seriousness, is there a way to distinguish these various onions from their chopped green stems? I'll get a bowl of pho, for example, and not know what type of onion is floating on top - that is but one example out of hundreds.

Let us also not forget chives: How in the heck am I supposed to know what this is? HE_chives_s4x3_lead.jpg

They do seem thinner.

And chive blossoms are easy to identify, and beautiful: chiveblossoms.jpg

As long as we're at it, if anyone is interested in beginning a thread on identifying various micro-greens, I'd be an eager reader.

Do we have any serious home gardeners here? If so, please PM me, as I have Big Plans 4 U.

At some point, they were known in Memphis as MGs? Were they Midgets? Good thing it wasn't "Booker T. and the MSG."

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Posted

As long as we're at it, if anyone is interested in beginning a thread on identifying various micro-greens, I'd be an eager reader.

I can do that but probably will take a week or so to get around to it.

More on topic- there are also garlic chives in addition to chives. They are also called Chinese leeks and taste of (shocker) garlic. They can easily be differentiated from "regular" chives because the tops are flat rather than round.

Posted

It varies by geography globally too. Those scallions/green onions are shallots in Australia.

This, of course, got me interested in what the Aussies would then call the root vegetable we call shallots.

The answer seems to be either "eschallots," "shallots" or "French shallots," depending on the state.

http://www.wiffens.com/produce/vegetables/onions-shallots

After all this Aussie onion madness, I need to go get a stiff Flat White. :-)

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Posted

chives are a member of the allium family, but they are an entirely different onion than green/spring/scallions, which are young onions, which if the bulbs are allowed to fill our and mature, are harvested after the tops wither and are sold as cooking onions.

Posted

from Wikipedia:

"The onion genus Allium comprises monocotyledonous flowering plants and includes the onion, garlic, chives, scallion, shallot, and the leek...The allocation of a plant to the Allium genus is taxonomically difficult and species boundaries are unclear."

That is even more true when the plants under consideration have been bred and interbred and hybridized by humans over thousands  of years.  However:

common onion: Allium cepa

shallot: also Allium cepa, obviously different cultivars, though

garlic: Allium sativum

leek and elephant garlic: various cultivars of A. ampeloprasum

chives: Allium schoenoprasum

scallion/green onion/spring onion: any of the following species and/or cultivars: A. cepa, A. cepa var. aggregatum, A. chinense, A. fistulosum, A. x proliferum, A. x wakegi

My point is, it's fruitless to argue over common names, though it is useful to recognize that people from different cultures (even within the same country) will apply different names to the same plant.

muddying the waters,

Posted

Exactly! This isn't something to argue about. Rather, like you say, it's very cool and interesting how different cultures discovered, named, developed, used, ritualized, commercialized and enjoyed different foods present in different parts of the world. Maybe I paraphrased you a little doing that?

A shallot by any other name....is still a shallot...or maybe an enschallot....depending on where you are? :-)

Posted

I can do that but probably will take a week or so to get around to it.

More on topic- there are also garlic chives in addition to chives. They are also called Chinese leeks and taste of (shocker) garlic. They can easily be differentiated from "regular" chives because the tops are flat rather than round.

John, please do! I just looked for a thread, and had forgotten you wrote this post. I *really* want to be able to distinguish my greens on a plate, instantly.

Regarding the last couple of posts: I have no desire to argue with anyone about anything; I want to *learn*! That's why I'm stoked at the possibility of a microgreens (and really, just *all* greens) primer.

chives are a member of the allium family, but they are an entirely different onion than green/spring/scallions, which are young onions, which if the bulbs are allowed to fill our and mature, are harvested after the tops wither and are sold as cooking onions.

Zora, what is an onion, exactly? (*) I could look this up on Google, but I'm sure other people would like to fill this void in their knowledge as well. I've seen the word "allium" before, but am not sure what it is other than it's apparently a taxonomic family (?) that includes the genus (??) chives.

Also, since green/spring/scallions are "young onions," are those big tennis-ball-sized things we see at Whole Foods "old onions?" Are these what you mean by "cooking onions?"

Any idea of time-to-maturity from green/spring/scallion-stage to cooking-onion-stage? And are the withered tops still edible? I vaguely recall I've included them in long-cooked stews, but I might be wrong.

(*) And, of course, as soon as I finished writing these paragraphs, I looked up and saw porcupine's post which essentially answered my question. I assume ramps are in the allium genus?

I may split this into a separate topic, but how correct or obsolete is the taxonomic hierarchy? (*) I used to glance at it from time to time when I worked with EPA, and was fascinated by it, although it seems that microscopic-level testing (possibly DNA testing?) is rendering it largely incorrect, incomplete, and/or just plain wrong, although that's just a guess. But I still remember that big old Willow Oak in the National Arboretum is Quercus Phellos, and that Village Green Zelkova I planted back in '92 is a Zelkova Serrata - one of the prettiest ornamental trees you'll see in this area with it's symmetrical foliage and characteristic light-colored trunk that flares out into a riot of branches several feet above the ground - if you're ever down by the Navy-Merchant Marine Memorial, when you look around, you'll see a *lot* of mature Village Green Zelkovas, and they're beautiful.

Posted

Look up Allium on Wikipedia for the answer to the question "what is an onion?"

Storage or cooking onions are mature bulbs of white, red, brown, or yellow onions that have been pulled from the ground and allowed to dry, so that the outer layer firms and forms a papery covering. By the time the bulb has matured, the top, the part of the plant that grew above ground, has withered. Growers generally cut off the dried tops for storage. Dried garlic tops can be braided together to form a garlic braid which can be hung up for storage. Onions can be braided as well, but they are quite heavy and often the dried top isn't strong enough to hold them for very long.

Posted

Also, I've heard that tune a gazillion times, and never knew what it was or who it was by - thanks for posting it. What is the etymology of the title? You've made me curious about whether or not scallions actually *were* called green onions in Memphis, or if it's something else entirely.

From the Wikipedia article on "Green Onions" by Booker T. and the MGs:

According to Steve Cropper, the name is not a marijuana reference; rather, the track is named after the Green Badger's cat, Green Onions, whose way of walking inspired the riff.[5] Songfacts.com, however, ascribes the track's title to Booker T. Jones. When asked by Jim Stewart what he'd named his track, Songfacts reports, Jones replied "Green Onions." "'Why "Green Onions"?' Jim asked. Booker T: 'Because that is the nastiest thing I can think of and it's something you throw away.'"[6]

On a Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! broadcast on June 24, 2013, host Peter Sagal asked Booker T. why his song was called, "Green Onions". Booker T. said, "The bass player thought it was so funky, he wanted to call it, 'Funky Onions', but they thought that was too low-class, so we used 'Green Onions' instead."

I don't think any of this sheds light on the terminology favored in Memphis for the things I call scallions.

Posted

This makes me think of the time I (a Yankee) asked my husband to pick up some "sweet potatoes" at the supermarket. He carefully examined all the signs on the bins, then asked a produce person for help. "No, we don't have sweet potatoes here. We only have yams."

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Posted

It's only talk.

I may split this into a separate topic, but how correct or obsolete is the taxonomic hierarchy? I used to glance at it from time to time when I worked with EPA, and was fascinated by it, although it seems that microscopic-level testing (possibly DNA testing?) is rendering it largely incorrect, incomplete, and/or just plain wrong, although that's just a guess.

Taxonomy is in flux.  Even citing authoritative sources is fraught with peril these days.  It used to be that classification was done on the basis of flower and fruit morphology [translation: if they look alike, they're related], but there's been a worldwide effort for some time now (20 years?!) to reclassify everything based on DNA analysis and phylogeny (evolutionary relationships).  I am not an expert but a dilettante fascinated by the subject.

The current taxonomic hierarchy runs Domain - Kingdom - Phyllum/Division* - Class - Order - Family - Genus - Species.  Two different experts/instructors in the class I'm taking have disagreed on the number of domains and kingdoms, but the order remains the same.  And actually, it gets more complicated than that, with the addition of clades and suborders and subfamilies and so on.  If you're looking for ways to kill time, google "lumpers vs. splitters".  Or click on everything in the google article on alliums, eg:

"In the APG III classification system, Allium is placed in the family Amaryllidaceae, subfamily Allioideae (formerly the family Alliaceae).[9] In some of the older classification systems, Allium was placed in Liliaceae.[3][4][10][11][12]Molecular phylogenetic studies have shown this circumscription of Liliaceae is not monophyletic."

Ramps are Allium tricoccum.

post-554-0-23132700-1428575951_thumb.jpg  post-554-0-21404500-1428576002_thumb.jpg

*phyllum for animals, division for plants

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Posted

Speaking of microgreens, I has 'em.  In my earthboxes.  Two boxes of arugala, one each of broccoli raab, collards, mizuna and puntarelle.  They are not intended to remain microgreens, but some of them will become microgreens when I thin them out.  I can see minor differences in the leaf (cotyledon) shapes but nothing specific.  Three pots of peas, these look very different from the greens.

Re: green onions.  In New Orleans I heard green onion, scallions, and shallots for the same thing.  I call them green onions.  I use the white and light green part but not the tops.

Posted

Spring onions have a bulb that "springs" out.

Scallions are "light"

because they have no "bulb."

Laugh at my inanity if you will, but I actually just used this thread instead of going to Wikipedia.

site:donrockwell.com scallions

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