DonRocks Posted May 21, 2015 Posted May 21, 2015 On 5/21/2015 at 2:51 PM, DaveO said: My only observation was that Klay Thompson was a 2 guard somewhat living off of Curry's incredible year....while Wall was easily the single star that drove the Wiz this past season. Except for one day in January. 1
DaveO Posted May 21, 2015 Posted May 21, 2015 Except for one day in January. Ahhh.....True. In all honesty his great play helped to make Curry more effective just as Curry made Thompson more effective this year. And I'm a homer, so my perspective is a weeeeeeeeee bit biased.
DonRocks Posted May 22, 2015 Author Posted May 22, 2015 "What's At Stake For Golden State Warriors In 2015 NBA Draft?" by Tim MacLean on bleacherreport.com I'd be curious to know if people think Golden State has the best backcourt in the NBA with Stephen (pronounced "Stefan," btw) Curry and Klay Thompson (Washington would obviously be included in this bar-room conversation with John Wall and Bradley Beal). While this is published on NBA's official website, it's still just one person's opinion - people might want to ponder the question before looking at this list although I will offer a hint: both the Wizards and the Warriors are in the Top 3. "The List: Top NBA Backcourts" by Joe Boozell on nba.com -- Golden State fans and Oakland residents: if you're seeing this from Twitter, click here to join us and argue (it's quick, private, free, and you only need to reply to one confirmation email). Just to let you know who we are, we're actually the #1 regional *restaurant* website in the United States, and we may well be starting a forum dedicated to San Francisco and Oakland (for now, we have these threads about Bay Area Dining: San Francisco, Pacific Coast Highway, Napa and Sonoma, Central California). If you're into restaurants, this is THE website for you, and we'd love to have your opinions, not only on the mighty Golden State Warriors, but also about the great Bay Area dining scene - I'm making it a point to travel to San Francisco several times a year (two months ago, I was at The Slanted Door, Zuni Cafe, Boulevard, R&G Lounge, Oenotri in Napa, and Bouchon in Yountville and btw, we're not focused only on top restaurants; we do it all (our Washington, DC Forum is the most comprehensive single-city forum in the entire world, and yes, that includes Yelp because we have our own Dining Guide that I personally curate)), and we very much look forward to seeing you here on donrockwell.com where you'll be welcomed as family: we just celebrated our 10th anniversary, and on our 20th, we hope to be your favorite website in San Francisco and Oakland. Cheers! Rocks PS - Write me personally if you join (donrockwell@dcdining.com), and I'll expedite your membership. 1
DonRocks Posted April 9, 2016 Author Posted April 9, 2016 Ugh, this level of choke hurts to witness, but a choke it was. "The Warriors Lose, Michael Jordan's Record is Safe (Maybe), and Why the NBA is Loving the Chase" by Mitch Lawrence on forbes.com Are the Spurs going to give up a 41-0 home record this coming Sunday to allow the Warriors to have 73 wins? You tell me. "What About That Other Team Going for an Amazing NBA Record?" by Sam Gardner on foxsports.com My how things have changed in under a year. I'm developing a theory on how to guard Curry which I might present for peer review. So here it is: You deny the Splash Brothers the 3 at all costs, and make them drive. I want to do a study on a correlation between the number of 3-pointers made, and the margin of victory - they're *killing* people from outside the arc, so the solution *must* involve guarding them long, and letting them drive - they don't drive much better than other great players, and this will take away the sure-thing. You put your best defender - Gary Payton, Muggsy Bogues, etc. - on them, and make them move towards the basket. Every other strategy has failed. The Warriors haven't changed basketball permanently; they've messed with it, and the rest of the league hasn't caught up with them. But I believe they will in the next year or two.
DaveO Posted April 9, 2016 Posted April 9, 2016 Ugh, this level of choke hurts to witness, but a choke it was. "The Warriors Lose, Michael Jordan's Record is Safe (Maybe), and Why the NBA is Loving the Chase" by Mitch Lawrence on forbes.com Are the Spurs going to give up a 41-0 home record this coming Sunday to allow the Warriors to have 73 wins? You tell me. "What About That Other Team Going for an Amazing NBA Record?" by Sam Gardner on foxsports.com So here it is: You deny the Splash Brothers the 3 at all costs, and make them drive. I want to do a study on a correlation between the number of 3-pointers made, and the margin of victory - they're *killing* people from outside the arc, so the solution *must* involve guarding them long, and letting them drive - they don't drive much better than other great players, and this will take away the sure-thing. You put your best defender - Gary Payton, Muggsy Bogues, etc. - on them, and make them move towards the basket. Every other strategy has failed. The Warriors haven't changed basketball permanently; they've messed with it, and the rest of the league hasn't caught up with them. But I believe they will in the next year or two. Tough timing on the theory. The night before San Antonio gave that theory the "ole" college try".. They got blown out. Curry scored 29. At the end of the third qtr the game was close to being over. Curry drove a lot. He shot more shots from in close, and got a lot of assists and was very accurate. Of recent though, Utah had a good shot at Golden State. They tried that theory with their tall lineup and tall guys going out to harass Curry. Worked pretty well but Golden State won. Boston also recently gave it the old college try on trying to deny the splash brothers shots. They did it with speedier with little guys. They won...beating Golden State at GS's home court. Big win. The Celtics did it with shorter guys tailing Curry everywhere he went. You ALWAYS want to deny shooters. ALWAYS. Its tough to implement. Curry is good on multiple levels not only with shooting but with dribbling so he is undoubtedly tough, tougher, and toughest to defend. A lot is in implementation and a lot is in how the two teams act, react, and recognize what is happening. By the way, Golden State won 67 last year regular season, won the championship and won 70 so far this year. As a team they are simply playing phenominal. They are doing a great job of recognizing that teams are trying their hardest to smother Curry...but Golden State is overwhelmingly overcoming all that as a team. Give a lot of credit to Green. He is showing Larry Bird like basketball IQ. Doing it in different parts of the game...but he is a key part of both Golden State's success and is a big help to Curry.
DonRocks Posted April 9, 2016 Author Posted April 9, 2016 Tough timing on the theory. The night before San Antonio gave that theory the "ole" college try".. They got blown out. Curry scored 29. At the end of the third qtr the game was close to being over. Curry drove a lot. He shot more shots from in close, and got a lot of assists and was very accurate. San Antonio's fortunes are going to fall with Duncan, and one game does not a theory break - teams are going to *have* to smother these two shooters deep. The Warriors aren't big enough inside to protect these two when driving - that's my hypothesis and I'm stickin' with it! "Small Ball" is going to fall apart inside of twenty feet, and they're going to need a third shooter to kick it out to. As much as I *love* the Warriors, I think they're something of a several-season phenomenon, and the era of the Mighty Center will return once again. The 3-point arc has changed the NBA every bit as much as lowering the pitcher's mound changed MLB (I would argue that Bob Gibson was the equivalent of Stephen Curry, albeit in reverse), and the Warriors were the first team to react to the rule change in a systemic fashion - it's incredible that nobody else did before this, because it's an absolute no-brainer. *Fifty percent* more points per bucket, and nobody's covering you? Hel-LO?! If I were Tim Duncan, I'd take a one-year contract for the highest amount of money possible. Then he could be a Duncan dough-nut. Bwaaaa-hahahahaha. And secretly I pray that he retires a career Spur.
DaveO Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 So here it is: You deny the Splash Brothers the 3 at all costs, and make them drive. I want to do a study on a correlation between the number of 3-pointers made, and the margin of victory - they're *killing* people from outside the arc, so the solution *must* involve guarding them long, and letting them drive - they don't drive much better than other great players, and this will take away the sure-thing. You put your best defender - Gary Payton, Muggsy Bogues, etc. - on them, and make them move towards the basket. Every other strategy has failed. The Warriors haven't changed basketball permanently; they've messed with it, and the rest of the league hasn't caught up with them. But I believe they will in the next year or two. Don: I was surprised to see you offer a "solution". After all this is Curry's third straight year of basically being indefensible. There are 29 opposing head coaches and probably about 145 assistant coaches all trying to come up with schemes and plans. None have realistically worked on a consistent basis over the last 3 years. Sometimes though the Splash Brothers have off days. It could be the defense du jour...or it could be off days. BUT...one of my colleagues and friends came up with a great idea. I'm convinced it would work. Its been done before. Let's just call it the Tanya Harding defense. Actually its certainly not a new idea. If implemented correctly it would stymie Curry, his running mate Thompson, and could be used equally effective against LeBron James, Michael Jordan or anyone. 1
DonRocks Posted April 12, 2016 Author Posted April 12, 2016 Don: I was surprised to see you offer a "solution". After all this is Curry's third straight year of basically being indefensible. There are 29 opposing head coaches and probably about 145 assistant coaches all trying to come up with schemes and plans. None have realistically worked on a consistent basis over the last 3 years. Sometimes though the Splash Brothers have off days. It could be the defense du jour...or it could be off days. BUT...one of my colleagues and friends came up with a great idea. I'm convinced it would work. Its been done before. Let's just call it the Tanya Harding defense. Actually its certainly not a new idea. If implemented correctly it would stymie Curry, his running mate Thompson, and could be used equally effective against LeBron James, Michael Jordan or anyone. Dave, let's straighten a couple of things out: Less than one year ago, I was the one who proposed Stephen Curry as the next possible Hall of Fame-level player in response to your question here, in which you didn't even mention him. I think you've become so enamored with him in the past year that you forget that he wasn't even on your radar just one short year ago. I have not "offered a solution"; I have proposed a *component* of a *possible* solution. And it isn't the coaches or head coaches trying to figure out how to stop him; it's people neither you nor I know about, being paid fortunes trying to figure out how to counteract Curry, the Warriors, and the "small ball" trend - either counteract it, or incorporate it - these are basketball minds much greater than yours or mine, and they quite possibly consist of people who neither of us have ever heard of. The one game I decided to watch Curry-and-nothing-but-Curry, he was being positively mauled by hatchet-man Matthew Dellavadova *off the ball*, and the strategy worked. So yes, you could call that the "Tonya Harding" defense if you wish; but it must be done furtively so you don't get caught. If Curry is as revolutionary as the media is making him out to be, and the Warriors are such an unstoppable force, then they shouldn't have any problem winning, say, 7 or 8 of the next 10 championships. Maybe he'll be like Bill Russell who won 11 championships in a 13-year career. We'll see what happens. As for now, we're watching the breakout season of the latest media-darling who has never before averaged over 24 points per game - which hardly constitutes being "indefensible," and who isn't even averaging 30 points per game this season - Michael Jordan averaged over 30 points per game over the course of his entire 15-year career. In the last 60 seasons, the NBA Scoring Champion averaged over 30 points per game 40 times, so even though Curry is leading the league in scoring this season, he's in the bottom third of "typical" NBA Scoring Leaders in terms of points. Someone finally did the math and realized that shooting 45% from 3-point land is equivalent to shooting 67.5% from 2-point land - that, and you're more likely to have a player back on defense, since the shooter often has a 30+ foot head start if they miss. "The Golden State Warriors Have Revolutionized Basketball" by Ben Cohen on wsj.com It does not surprise me that the Wall Street Journal has written the best article I've yet seen on this phenomenon, describing the 3-point-line as a "market inefficiency," because that's exactly what it has always been. The irony of this post is that there's hardly more of a Stephen Curry fan than I am. I want you to remember I said that the NBA *will* figure out a way to contain Curry and the Warriors sometime in the next several seasons. If Kevin Durant somehow goes to Golden State? All bets are off. They could become the greatest team in NBA history, or they could become worse than they are now. And here's another hypothesis for you to pick apart: I think it's possible that the next phase in the NBA will be one of swarming defenses - there might be no such thing as an even remotely out-of-shape NBA player, not that there are very many now, and that could mean shorter careers - which poses yet another problem. Also, the NBA might even respond by putting the arc further away from the basket, the way the NCAA banned goaltending and the NBA widened the key because of George Mikan, or the way the NBA banned crossing the free-throw plane because of Wilt Chamberlain *dunking them*, or the way the NCAA disallowed dunking in general because of Lew Alcindor, who dunked more basketballs than a 70-year-old policeman has dunked doughnuts. It's happened before, and it could happen again.
DonRocks Posted April 14, 2016 Author Posted April 14, 2016 I, for one, want to say *Congratulations* to the Golden State Warriors for setting an all-time NBA record for wins with 73, with their 124-104 defeat of the Memphis Grizzlies last night. I love Golden State, and almost flew out to Oakland to see one of their games a few weeks ago. I couldn't pick a team - with the *possible* exception of the San Antonio Spurs with a healthy Tim Duncan, that I would have rather seen break the Chicago Bulls' previous record of 72-10. Congratulations to everyone involved with this fantastic season, and for bringing the sheer *joy* back into playing professional basketball.
DaveO Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 DonRocks, on 01 Apr 2016 - 11:56 PM, said: My how things have changed in under a year. I'm developing a theory on how to guard Curry which I might present for peer review. So here it is: You deny the Splash Brothers the 3 at all costs, and make them drive. Okay: Here is one "peer review" 1. Golden State(GS) has killed teams this year. The best winning record ever in the NBA. On top of that they are winning by a lot. Their " plus minus" or their aggregate of total points in victory is extremely high. (So too is San Antonio's this year). 2. GS is killing teams with 3 point shots and the two guys most responsible are Curry and Thompson, the Splash Brothers. Not only do these two guys have more 3 pters made than any twosome ever, the team has put out an enormous volume of 3 pters and they are shooting at an aggregate team high of 3pt pct...with the splash brothers being most responsible, not only in volume but they lead the team in pct made. These two guys are killing teams. 3. Here is the rub. Check out the stats on the Basketball reference page site for Curry You can check them out for Thompson also. Scroll down to the "Shooting" Subsection. These are amazingingly detailed statistical packages. On the shooting section scroll across and they have statistics on shots from distance: 0-3 ft, 3-10, and so on to 3 pointers. Pretty amazing detail. Both Curry and Thompson are hitting close in shots; layups, dunks and driving floaters from very in close at crazy high rates: Around 69%. UUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH These guys are effectively (but only marginally) more effective from in close than far out. Here is the other thing. They are better at the close in shots than virtually all guards. I checked these close in distance figures for Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Harden, Toronto's point guard, Lowry and Tony Parker. (Parker is an interesting one because that was his absolute strongest forte coming into the league...he was phenomenal at getting in close and scoring...almost unnaturally gifted at that. Parker later developed better passing and outside shooting skills.) The Splash Brothers are at the top of the heap for scoring percentages in close compared to most point guards. 4. Now you have a problem. It makes PERFECT sense to push these two off the 3 pt line. They are KILLING teams. But these two are KILLING teams when they drive to the basket. I watch Curry. (less so Thompson). Curry is such a gifted scorer...and not just with 3's. When he is driving he has that same ability as Parker showed...to score from in close..even with lots of defensive arms and hands up in the air, from guys way taller. Curry is great at avoiding the blocks, regardless of angle and moves and deftly putting the ball in the bucket. Its been noted in the sports press that Curry has seriously improved at this skill over the years. His stats show it. 5. So DAMN. If you push them off the 3 pt line...as I agree you should try and do...then they drive and score. Ugh. Pick a poison. Neither has worked this year. 6. Okay...push them off the 3 pt line and ALSO stuff defenders in close...so they can't get That close to the basket. UH OH. The rest of the Warriors are usually around the 3 pt line and frankly they have other good 3 pt. shooters...and if you stuff defenders near the rim...some other GS players are WIDE open. 7. So this year...none of this has worked. 8, A team could employ the Mathew Dellavedova defense you referred to earlier; try and maul the Splash Brothers. I suspect GS would send video the league and the refs to expose that. Secondly when faced with one of those guys I suspect GS would have brawnier subs come in, set picks and apply elbows to Dellavedova's face. That would stop that type of defense. Tactics of that sort were often used in the 80's and 90's to limit overly ambitious defenders. 9. At this point I suppose its better to have a non splash brother shoot than a splash brother...so you push them off the 3 pt line and stuff the interior. You are still left with uncovered GS Warriors. This year...it simply hasn't worked for anyone. Upthread I referenced 3 games; the recent game against San Antonio with the ragged first half and the second half where Curry took over. In that game they did push Curry off the 3 pt line. He ended up scoring 29 or 30, shot well. I don't think he missed a single shot when driving to the basket. Against Utah, earlier the game was tied at regulation with GS winning in OT. Curry shot well again...and in that game, Utah has mobile Bigs who are good shot blockers. They tried something similar to San Antonio bringing up the bigs. Curry got his shots and long shots...but the game stayed close. In a recent Boston game...the Celtics had guards swarming Curry. He still scored and shot well. The Celts won the game. In that one the Celts were drawing fouls on GS and GS wasn't drawing fouls on Boston. I suspect that defenses that work will depend on the players on the team and their make up. Big shot blockers or quicker smaller guys. Its tough either way right now. Anyway its a good theory. But it didn't work this year....and if Curry and Thompson continue to convert at the basket at such a high rate it will not be one easy to implement IMHO. Besides all that stuff above, GS led the league in assists. Their "shorter team" is very adept at passing. I personally love watching passing teams and these guys are great to watch. BTW: Two seasons San Antonio put on one of the great demonstrations of killer basketball in the finals. They whipped Miami 4 games to 1 in the finals. San Antonio won 4 games by sizable amounts and lost one very close game. San Antonio ABSOLUTELY killed Miami with their passing. The ball was always way ahead of a defender. So I'd like to see a series with GS versus San Antonio with both teams passing the ball like crazy. I'd find that entertaining and exciting. Will GS maintain a great record for years as you possibly suggest? I have no idea. Will swarming defenses become the norm?? No idea again...but lets face it...I'd say a minority of ball players are willing to give up their energy on offense for exerting themselves on the defensive side. (think James Harden) (he plays "matador" defense) GS has a great mix of players, especially the non centers. Its not that easy to put that kind of mix together. Look at this year's Wizards. Anyway Playoffs are starting. The competition will be intense. 1
DonRocks Posted April 14, 2016 Author Posted April 14, 2016 GS has a great mix of players, especially the non centers. Its not that easy to put that kind of mix together. Look at this year's Wizards. This was an excellent post, and this line is why I said Kevin Durant *might* hurt them - they seem to have such outstanding chemistry, and having Durant would change that - you don't necessarily want to introduce change into a working system (I'm talking about Engineering; not Basketball, but it might be a similar principle). Golden State seems to have quietly been spending the past several years furtively building this mix - it may take the rest of the league quite awhile to dismantle it - they only really just caught onto it this season. Now they know the problem exists, but what to do about it? One thing I'm pretty sure of: In high school, players are no longer practicing dunks like they used to; they're practicing 3-point shots, and that means there will be some great shooters developing over the next five years or so. Twenty years ago, they'd pretend the clock was running out, and they were Michael Jordan; now, they're pretending the clock is running out, and they're Stephen Curry, One interesting question that remains unanswered: Does Curry have a unique talent, or can it be duplicated? I guess we're going to find out, but I just don't see how that many people can shoot 3-pointers sideways, off of one leg.
DaveO Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 Here is a potential chink in their armor. There are virtually no great center/scorers in the league. Cousins at Sacramento is the best now. He is a center beast but he is horribly inconsistent, and currently emotionally so. No guarantees on him. Last years first draft choice from Kentucky might be on the way. Time will tell. The ex Duke Center at Philadelphia has scoring center skills, but that team is terrible. Long ways to go there. Anthony Davis might be the "guy". He seems to be mixing his play between center and the outside. Only other guy who could develop there is Drummond at Detroit, simply because he is huge and talented...but if he'll develop is completely unknown. If a great offensive center or more than one develop....that will change a lot. At this point I doubt Green, the #2 stud on GS can cover someone who is both massively bigger and taller AND talented as a scorer. Just a guess...but that is where the league is weak...and it allows Green to hold down the center position at only 6 6 or so and add all that mobility and passing that helps GS be so great. The above is just an idea...but there are no great scoring centers...unlike most periods of the NBA. Its about time for one or two to develop. 1
farmer john Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 8, A team could employ the Mathew Dellavedova defense you referred to earlier; try and maul the Splash Brothers. I suspect GS would send video the league and the refs to expose that. Secondly when faced with one of those guys I suspect GS would have brawnier subs come in, set picks and apply elbows to Dellavedova's face. That would stop that type of defense. Tactics of that sort were often used in the 80's and 90's to limit overly ambitious defenders. I would maul them with someone considerably bigger and stronger than Dellavedova... Nene comes to mind locally. Steph Curry should never shoot a shot in the lane where he doesn't wind up flat on his back. 1
DaveO Posted April 15, 2016 Posted April 15, 2016 I would maul them with someone considerably bigger and stronger than Dellavedova... Nene comes to mind locally. Steph Curry should never shoot a shot in the lane where he doesn't wind up flat on his back. Well said. Clearly the home team are big believers in this and would implement this strategy if and when necessary. There is precedent for this from the home team Bullets/Wiz. Back in '75 in the NBA finals the local Bullets tried to maul the opposite team's star. Didn't work....go about 3:00 + minutes into this video. The home team Bullet "mauler" gets ejected...and the other teams star kicks our butts. But heck: I'd do the same thing you recommend. (maybe Riordan should have given a more serious mauling.) and btw: in keeping with the foodie nature of this forum, Riordan ran a heckuva nice neighborhood/sports bar/hangout down on the docks in Annapolis for a long time.
farmer john Posted April 15, 2016 Posted April 15, 2016 82 games of cumulative mauling would add up 1
DonRocks Posted April 15, 2016 Author Posted April 15, 2016 Didn't work....go about 3:00 + minutes into this video. The home team Bullet "mauler" gets ejected...and the other teams star kicks our butts. It was Warriors coach Al Attles that got ejected, not Mike Riordan. Rick Barry (whom I never fully appreciated when I was a teenager) was getting ready to go after Riordan, and Attles ran onto the floor to protect him, thereby getting ejected himself. An interesting note is that Wes Unseld was the toughest player in the NBA, and he was right next to all the mauling. As much as I don't like to say this, mauling has always worked in the Big 4 North American sports, from Conrad Dobler, to Sal Maglie, to Dennis Rodman, to Billy Smith, and it's not always the mauling itself; it's the fear of being mauled - that's why a pitcher will go inside early.
DaveO Posted April 15, 2016 Posted April 15, 2016 Attlles and Riordan got ejected. Didn't matter. Barry killed Riordan all series. Got pissed off after the shove and killed the Bullets some more with someone other than Riordan covering him. Complete upset sweep by San Fran. I watched that one from afar. Bullets were favored. Writers were saying they'd kill the Warriors. Writers were "promoting" Riordan covering Barry. That just irritated Barry, who was a formidable superstar. He made mincemeat of the Bullets, shooting or passing off. He was the unstoppable Curry of his day. (Bullets should have mauled him in the first minute of the first game) (btw: might have posted this before. my cousin (and other teammates) played and covered Rick Barry in high school. My cuz held him to either under 40 or under 50. )
DonRocks Posted April 15, 2016 Author Posted April 15, 2016 On 4/15/2016 at 0:09 PM, DaveO said: My cuz held him to either under 40 or under 50. In which half?
DaveO Posted April 25, 2016 Posted April 25, 2016 Well, Curry is injured and out two weeks: that is at least two weeks. If the Warriors manage to make it through Houston and the next round or two in the playoffs without Curry, that will certainly speak to the quality of the team. Injuries. It does change everything.
DonRocks Posted April 25, 2016 Author Posted April 25, 2016 1 hour ago, DaveO said: Injuries. It does change everything. Everything except the MVP award.
farmer john Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 Hopefully Curry will be able to go when they think. The Chris Paul injury should help the Warriors make it through to the Western finals even without him. I don't see the Paul-less Clippers or the overachieving Blazers (who are basically a 2 man team) beating the Warriors even without Curry. The Thunder or the Spurs on the other hand... 1
DonRocks Posted April 26, 2016 Author Posted April 26, 2016 25 minutes ago, farmer john said: Hopefully Curry will be able to go when they think. The Chris Paul injury should help the Warriors make it through to the Western finals even without him. I don't see the Paul-less Clippers or the overachieving Blazers (who are basically a 2 man team) beating the Warriors even without Curry. The Thunder or the Spurs on the other hand... I hope Curry, for Curry's sake, recovers today. But from a fan's perspective, a Curry-less Warriors team going up against San Antonio, and perhaps Cleveland, would be fascinating. You have to wonder what's going through LeBron James' mind right now: Does he want to win a title at all costs, or does he want to beat the best? And will this be Tim Duncan's final season? Even if Curry comes back, he won't be back at 100% - that "little darting move" he makes to shake off defenders at the 3-point line may be 20%, 30% slower than it was two weeks ago, and that can make a big difference, especially as you get worn down going deeper-and-deeper into the playoffs. This reminds me of RGIII in a haunting way - he was the most popular person in Washington, DC; two years later, the fickle fans (and media) chopped him to pieces - all because he got injured when they shouldn't have even had him in the game. I hope he comes back and beats the snot out of the Redskins, but his might be a career-ending injury. With a healthy Curry, I didn't really consider any other team having a chance to win this year. I want him to come back, not just for his sake, but because the Warriors are far-and-away the best team this season, and deserve the title, but life has a way of shitting on you when you least expect it to. Has it been determined whether or not there was perspiration on the floor where Curry slipped? That looked like a wet-floor injury to me.
farmer john Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 They were saying wet floor on the radio earlier today. in my opinion a Curry-less Warriors team has no chance at all against the Spurs. I am among the folks who think the Spurs have a chance against the Warriors even with Curry. I would favor the Warriors heavily but it won't be a foregone conclusion. Tony Parker is currently playing as well as he has in at least the last 2 seasons. As for Lebron- he is smart enough to know they are unlikely to beat the Warriors if the Warriors are at peak efficiency. He is also smart enough not to come out and say it.
DaveO Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 Just before Curry slipped, Houston's big white power forward hit the ground right in front of Curry. I suspect it was his sweat that made the floor slippery. Injuries change everything. Last year Cleveland essentially went into the finals with two of their big 3 down and Lebron had to carry the whole show. Cripes, Houston are Pro's. They could win this series. I doubt it, but the Warriors without the MVP ....well he won't win MVP without having meant an incredible LOT. Clippers. OMG. Paul is out. Griffen is seriously hurt. That is their offense. Portland could beat this team. Endless endless unknowns. Meanwhile Curry's replacement starter, Shaun Livingston is an interesting player. He was supposedly a unique talent coming out of high school...a tall point guard with distributor skills a la Magic. He showed flashes in his first post high school years, but clearly needed a good bit of maturity. Then he suffered a brutal knee injury and after recovering spent years trying to get back to some level of quality, including playing reserve for the Wizards. He looks good now. He is showing mature basketball skills. And now for a confession. I've hardly watched this first round. I resolved to limit my watching to one player's team...(as I've spent too many decades watching way too many games.) The player and team I've been watching is Jae Crowder and his team Boston. I caught Crowder when he played in college...I thought he was the fiercest multi skilled (but no outstanding skills) player in college at the time with a willingness to go all out. On top of his fierce play and on top of his head is are killer dreds. Between all out play, and dynamite dreds; the total effect is one I've been watching for a few years. After a few rough years in Dallas Crowder was traded to Boston and has become the starting small forward on Boston's surprising "superstar" less team. All teamwork, no star. Crowder has become a better shooter, scorer, outside shot. He still defends, rebounds, runs the floor, plays tough defense, sets picks, etc etc etc. And he looks cool and fierce doing so. How is he doing in the Boston/Atlanta series?? HORRIFIC. He can't shoot for shit. In the first 3 games his shooting percentage was under 20%. He went 4 for 11 in the 4th game and is now shooting less than 25%....but more than 20%. He also spent part of the time guarding Atlanta's Millsap who only scored 45 in game 4. Uggggghhhhh. ...and he didn't play in extra time when Boston won. Accordingly with choosing somebody I thought would be a surprise star in the playoffs....and who is performing at less than Kobe Bryant quality circa 2015-16 I'm not picking any winners in these playoffs. 1
farmer john Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 I have watched a fair amount although I do tend to fall asleep in the chair pretty quickly now that farm season is upon me. Golden State is good enough defensively to get to the western finals without Curry but no farther. I cannot believe how bad Miami has looked on the road after looking like they could challenge the Cavs at home. Spurs- OKC is going to be a really good series. I hope the Celtics manage to knock out the Hawks solely because I think there is a decent chance of the Wiz making a run at Al Horford and would like him disenchanted with the ATL. I like that Lebron is playing in the post a bit and think that bodes well for the Cavs...imo he should play high post most of the time and lay off the 3 point shooting and dribbling. Just because he can do those things doesn't mean it's best for the team. 1
DaveO Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 1 hour ago, farmer john said: I like that Lebron is playing in the post a bit and think that bodes well for the Cavs...imo he should play high post most of the time and lay off the 3 point shooting and dribbling. Just because he can do those things doesn't mean it's best for the team. Is he hitting shooters and cutters from the post??? (...or maybe I'll just start watching in the 2nd round)
farmer john Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 12 hours ago, DaveO said: Is he hitting shooters and cutters from the post??? (...or maybe I'll just start watching in the 2nd round) yep- he is a great passer (which we already knew). 1
DaveO Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 On 4/26/2016 at 6:53 PM, farmer john said: I have watched a fair amount although I do tend to fall asleep in the chair pretty quickly now that farm season is upon me. Golden State is good enough defensively to get to the western finals without Curry but no farther. I cannot believe how bad Miami has looked on the road after looking like they could challenge the Cavs at home. Spurs- OKC is going to be a really good series. I hope the Celtics manage to knock out the Hawks solely because I think there is a decent chance of the Wiz making a run at Al Horford and would like him disenchanted with the ATL. I like that Lebron is playing in the post a bit and think that bodes well for the Cavs...imo he should play high post most of the time and lay off the 3 point shooting and dribbling. Just because he can do those things doesn't mean it's best for the team. I tried to stay up and watch the Warriors/Rockets. I was probably asleep after 10 minutes. Not boredom--tiredness. Meanwhile my designnated "man", Jae Crowder, continues to under perform (stink up the joint) and Atlanta is mostly whupping up on Boston. That is too bad. I like your idea about Horford.
DaveO Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 Cripes: The GS Warriors are playing great even without Curry: the entire team playing great on both offense and defense. The Clippers lost 2 stars and crashed and burned. Last season the Cavs lost two stars, and all things considered played respectfully in the finals, being totally carried by Lebron. This years Warriors team is so far soundly beating Houston and the initial effort against the Blazers...all without Curry. Its a very very strong team. Sort of interesting to me in the first game against Portland, that even while they are the foremost description of small ball, with Curry out, they started a big tall lanky guard in his place, Shawn Livingston, have a second tall guard,Thompson, a rangy forward in Barnes, and frankly in some difficult to describe way, Green plays Both Way TAller than his height and simultaneously plays quicker and rangier than his big forward position. To the extent that Green plays taller than his position he helps defy the context of small ball. In a weird way he reminds me of Charles Barkley; not in any way reflecting Barkley's unbelievable athleticism that allowed him to play hugely big....but in the context that Green does play big...far bigger than his height and then ranges around the court playing defense. (In his youth, Barkley could range around the court also). This Golden State team is far more than just Curry. They are a delight to watch with their overall game...,.having the same attributes as San Antonio using all their players on both sides of the court. It appears there is an elite level in the NBA this year and then pretenders to the throne. Is GS elite without Curry? Probably not, but they are damned good and dramatically so on both sides of the ball. 1
DonRocks Posted May 23, 2016 Author Posted May 23, 2016 I cannot believe what I'm seeing: After three quarters, Oklahoma City is up 117-80.
DaveO Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 13 hours ago, DonRocks said: I cannot believe what I'm seeing: After three quarters, Oklahoma City is up 117-80. Oklahoma just thrashed Golden State. A beat down thrashing. Game got out of control. GS kept missing, Oklahoma was sweeping the boards driving the ball down and getting better quicker shots. That went on the entire game. Usually these things go in spurts. Oklahoma spurted most of the first 3 quarters. Just a beat down. Meanwhile Draymond Green kicked Oklahoma center Steve Adams in the groin. 2nd time this series. Watch the video. What do you think? Having played and after many views and re views, I think it was deliberate. Now if Green gets suspended that really puts a hit on an essential Warrior player who is quite difficult to replace. Uh oh Warriors.
DonRocks Posted May 23, 2016 Author Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, DaveO said: Oklahoma just thrashed Golden State. A beat down thrashing. Game got out of control. GS kept missing, Oklahoma was sweeping the boards driving the ball down and getting better quicker shots. That went on the entire game. Usually these things go in spurts. Oklahoma spurted most of the first 3 quarters. Just a beat down. Meanwhile Draymond Green kicked Oklahoma center Steve Adams in the groin. 2nd time this series. Watch the video. What do you think? Having played and after many views and re views, I think it was deliberate. Now if Green gets suspended that really puts a hit on an essential Warrior player who is quite difficult to replace. Uh oh Warriors. An amazing thing is that Oklahoma City scored only 16 points in the 4th quarter because they were playing their reserves - I didn't even know some of these people were on the roster. I was certain it was deliberate, too; then, Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal talked me into thinking otherwise after the game - O'Neal was saying that arms and legs go flailing all the time, and while Green was definitely flailing, he wasn't trying to hit him *there*, and he made sense. Now, you're talking me into thinking it was deliberate again - "flailing" is one thing, but that leg kept going up, and up, perhaps unnaturally high ... either way, it was an awful, awful play. I had no idea it was the second time it happened this series - if that's the case, then that's pretty damning (I'm going to look for a video of the first time after I finish writing). I was in the next room when they interviewed Green after the game, and I partially heard him insisting it was an accident, saying something about 'I want to have kids, too,' and that he'd never do that to someone. Boy, this is a tough call - I always thought Green was a good guy, and I didn't know he was capable of such a thing if it was on purpose. I felt *so sorry* for Adams (a very underrated player, and an important component to the Thunder's chemistry). The next game will tell all, and I suspect whoever wins it will win the series. The entire Thunder team was clicking last night - either they'll come out like they want to seal the deal (Barkley said the next game was more of a must-win for them than it was for the Warriors!), or the Warriors will come out locked into hitting 3's ... or both, and that's when it will be *really* interesting. This is one of the most interesting series I've ever seen - the Thunder looked invincible last night, but the Warriors are a 73-9 team. That groin shot might prove to be the palpable motivation the Thunder need to stay intense. Wow, what a scenario this will be! I said before that I was pulling for Cleveland (not the team; the city). Now, after watching the passion of Durant and Westbrook last night (and after watching James's blatant flop the other night, which made me angry), I think I may be pulling for the Thunder - they're winning me over; then again, the Warriors won me over all season long. There's a non-zero chance I might be going to the next game in Oakland; it's just a matter of whether I want to pony up - to be honest, I kind of like watching it on TV, and I have a feeling tickets will be in the four figures, so I may have to leave this for people more wealthy than I.
DaveO Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, DonRocks said: I was certain it was deliberate, too; then, Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal talked me into thinking otherwise after the game - O'Neal was saying that arms and legs go flailing all the time, and while Green was definitely flailing, he wasn't trying to hit him *there*, and he made sense. Now, you're talking me into thinking it was deliberate again - "flailing" is one thing, but that leg kept going up, and up, perhaps unnaturally high ... either way, it was an awful, awful play. I had no idea it was the second time it happened this series - if that's the case, then that's pretty damning (I'm going to look for a video of the first time after I finish writing). I was in the next room when they interviewed Green after the game, and I partially heard him insisting it was an accident, saying something about 'I want to have kids, too,' and that he'd never do that to someone. Boy, this is a tough call - I always thought Green was a good guy, and I didn't know he was capable of such a thing if it was on purpose. I felt *so sorry* for Adams (a very underrated player, and an important component to the Thunder's chemistry). The next game will tell all, and I suspect whoever wins it will win the series. The entire Thunder team was clicking last night - either they'll come out like they want to seal the deal (Barkley said the next game was more of a must-win for them than it was for the Warriors!), or the Warriors will come out locked into hitting 3's ... or both, and that's when it will be *really* interesting. This is one of the most interesting series I've ever seen - the Thunder looked invincible last night, but the Warriors are a 73-9 team. That groin shot might prove to be the palpable motivation the Thunder need to stay intense. Wow, what a scenario this will be! I said before that I was pulling for Cleveland (not the team; the city). Now, after watching the passion of Durant and Westbrook last night (and after watching James's blatant flop the other night, which made me angry), I think I may be pulling for the Thunder - they're winning me over; then again, the Warriors won me over all season long. There's a non-zero chance I might be going to the next game in Oakland; it's just a matter of whether I want to pony up - to be honest, I kind of like watching it on TV, and I have a feeling tickets will be in the four figures, so I may have to leave this for people more wealthy than I. I watched it. I rewatched it multiple times. I heard the commentary. The only person who knows if it was deliberate or not is Green. I played a lot. There is plenty of flailing as per Shaq and Barkley. There are also deliberate actions to hurt someone. I recall the few times I did something deliberate. I recall the times I was hurt by others. Very difficult to tell if its deliberate or not. That is why I asked what others think. It might not have been "deep deliberate"....more "deliberate tinged with frustration" if there is such a distinction. I'd vote for deliberate of some sort. But only Green really knows. He of course will deny it. Meanwhile that game was a real ass kicking...from Oklahoma's first run of separation till the end of the 3rd quarter. Non stop. Pretty unusual for an extended period of time. Golden State was flustered and Oklahoma was in great sync.
farmer john Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 100% obviously deliberate?- no Deliberate enough for a suspension particularly considering he had whacked the same player in the same place the previous game?- yes I have admittedly gotten sick of the Warriors and am rooting hard for them to lose. Steph has lost the charm he once had and has become a cocky little SOB, Bogut is as dirty as anyone in the league and Draymond talks too much.
DaveO Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 17 minutes ago, farmer john said: 100% obviously deliberate?- no Deliberate enough for a suspension particularly considering he had whacked the same player in the same place the previous game?- yes I have admittedly gotten sick of the Warriors and am rooting hard for them to lose. Steph has lost the charm he once had and has become a cocky little SOB, Bogut is as dirty as anyone in the league and Draymond talks too much. I still like the Warriors, but I like Oklahoma also. Hell I could like Cleveland....and I encourage all to root for the big underdogs...the Raptors (I just wish the Wizards still had Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kareem and my grandmother like in the old days---they'd kick ass!!!!!) On that kick. I cannot tell as to deliberate or not from observation. But twice. Uh uh. BTW: Adams might need to call up his sister to kick the living daylight out of Green.
DonRocks Posted May 23, 2016 Author Posted May 23, 2016 1 hour ago, farmer john said: 100% obviously deliberate?- no Deliberate enough for a suspension particularly considering he had whacked the same player in the same place the previous game?- yes I have admittedly gotten sick of the Warriors and am rooting hard for them to lose. Steph has lost the charm he once had and has become a cocky little SOB, Bogut is as dirty as anyone in the league and Draymond talks too much. Have your feelings changed in the past month or so? Because this is the time period that my love of the Warriors has begun to fade, and I really don't know why it's fading; I just know I want to see an Oklahoma City - Cleveland final, and I want to see Durant and Company take it (as of right now); I didn't feel this way a month ago. I'm also starting to rediscover my respect for Russell "The Human Explosion" Westbrook and Kyrie "Uncle Drew" Irving - maybe I just got a little sick of "all Warriors, all the time." I'm not sure I'd call Curry a "cocky little SOB," but his tone in press conferences seems to have changed from one of joyous innocence to rote cynicism - he still answers all the questions without demeaning the reporters, but for some reason he seems different. And I'm still ticked off at James for his flop - that was Maximum Disrespect for your opponents.
farmer john Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 I was a champion flopper in my (limited) day so Lebron doing it doesn't really bother me. I actually can date the beginnings of my disenchantment with the Warriors all the way back to last year and to something not really basketball related- Curry bringing his daughter to the press conferences. I have grown much more sick of them lately though as they chased down the regular season record which will turn out to be much ado about nothing if the Thunder can win 2 more games (50/50 imo). The looking away from the shots and staring down Ibaka,etc screams "cocky little SOB" to me more recently though.
DonRocks Posted May 23, 2016 Author Posted May 23, 2016 So, do I want to pay $250 for nosebleed seats behind a basket for Game 5? $350 for nosebleed seats mid-court? $600 for lower seats at an angle? $1,000+ for lower seats closer to mid-court? Or should I watch it on TV and go to the French Laundry?
DaveO Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 17 minutes ago, DonRocks said: So, do I want to pay $250 for nosebleed seats behind a basket for Game 5? $350 for nosebleed seats mid-court? $600 for lower seats at an angle? $1,000+ for lower seats closer to mid-court? Or should I watch it on TV and go to the French Laundry? Ha ha. That is funny. I attended a lot of games over the years. In my opinion...nosebleed seats are lousy for basketball but still excellent for hockey. Lower level seats are much better in basketball. Would I pay a lot for a playoff team in which I wasn't a fan??? Nah. But that is me. To each his own. But I've been to playoff games for the old bullets/wiz. playoff games are exciting. They are FAR more exciting when its your team. AT HOME. So for me, if I didn't have a season package wherein I got playoff tickets, I probably wouldn't pay scalpers prices. TV is so much better for watching games than it used to be. Now the big screen at home is most convenient. Personally I think one does best at sports bars, or bars, wherein you know the layout and the people. Then you know what the environment is going to be like, get a preferable place to sit, know how loud, it will be, get good service, etc. My experience and preference is that nosebleed seats are not conducive to basketball. So I'd never pay scalpers prices for those. You are going to watch so much of the game on the big in house screens. You may as well be home, at a friend's or in some great bar.
DonRocks Posted May 23, 2016 Author Posted May 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, DaveO said: Ha ha. That is funny. I attended a lot of games over the years. In my opinion...nosebleed seats are lousy for basketball but still excellent for hockey. Lower level seats are much better in basketball. Would I pay a lot for a playoff team in which I wasn't a fan??? Nah. But that is me. To each his own. But I've been to playoff games for the old bullets/wiz. playoff games are exciting. They are FAR more exciting when its your team. AT HOME. So for me, if I didn't have a season package wherein I got playoff tickets, I probably wouldn't pay scalpers prices. TV is so much better for watching games than it used to be. Now the big screen at home is most convenient. Personally I think one does best at sports bars, or bars, wherein you know the layout and the people. Then you know what the environment is going to be like, get a preferable place to sit, know how loud, it will be, get good service, etc. My experience and preference is that nosebleed seats are not conducive to basketball. So I'd never pay scalpers prices for those. You are going to watch so much of the game on the big in house screens. You may as well be home, at a friend's or in some great bar. This is exactly my line of thinking. If I could get good seats for $250, I'd go, but for the worst seats in the house? I think I'm going to have to pass. At first it sounded like it was reasonable, but on the ticket websites, they have photographs of the view from the sections, and there basically isn't one.
DaveO Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 My memory about nosebleed seats dates back to being a kid. But those were strong impressions. Basketball was horrible. Hockey was exciting. I'm sure large arena screens fill in but I never did nosebleed seats again...so that is a very old perspective. OTOH. Watching incredible athletes at mid level or lower or lower mid level is astonishing. Watching from the middle is far preferable than being under the basket in my experience. But here is a funny experience. I had tickets under a basket for a Knicks/Detroit game while I was in college. We were probably about 3,4,5 rows up from the floor, corporate seats. I was at the game with a college g/f and an old friend. She was in the middle. Detroit's big center, Bob Lanier went barreling into the seats in front of us. He had the biggest feet in the game. Gynormous. He was stretched out in front of us and we were staring at his feet. YUGE!!! (as our popular media figure D. Trump likes to say) So unbelievable. I looked across at my friend and said. BIG FEET. He responded BIG DICK. My g/f calmly looked at me and said she'd prefer to go out with Lanier!!!!! Imagine the nerve!!!! Seats under the basket-good for one end lousy for the other end. Come to think of it, its really why I like watching games at GW. Good quality basketball. Some of the players at GW or the opposition might go to the pros. The value is in the smallness of the arena and proximity to the floor. (I bet George Mason is the same) (now I'm getting psyched about game 4 in that series)
DonRocks Posted May 25, 2016 Author Posted May 25, 2016 My God, the Warriors were up 8-6, and now they're down 22-8 - the Thunder just went on a 16-0 run. Amazingly, they had come out playing very sheepishly, and ... as I was typing that, Curry just nailed an off-balance 3.
funkyfood Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 "He's playing at 70 percent, at best," a source close to Curry told The Vertical. I wonder if this is true. Curry has clearly not been himself and has missed lots of shots he usually hits. But people forget he did that in last year's finals too. What interests me is the fact that he can't get by Ibaka or Adams isolated on the perimeter and that he's missing so many layups, both of which suggest he isn't as explosive as he usually is and is in some amount of pain. I'm also curious to know how much of an effect guarding RWB for 40 minutes is having on him. He's playing him relatively well (especially last night), but it may not be worth it. Maybe stick him on Roberson sometimes to give him a chance to catch his breath. Also interesting to me is Durant's defense. I've never seen him play anything close to like this defensively. He's like Kawhi with a 3 inch longer wingspan out there... 1
DaveO Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, funkyfood said: "He's playing at 70 percent, at best," a source close to Curry told The Vertical. I wonder if this is true. Curry has clearly not been himself and has missed lots of shots he usually hits. But people forget he did that in last year's finals too. What interests me is the fact that he can't get by Ibaka or Adams isolated on the perimeter and that he's missing so many layups, both of which suggest he isn't as explosive as he usually is and is in some amount of pain. I'm also curious to know how much of an effect guarding RWB for 40 minutes is having on him. He's playing him relatively well (especially last night), but it may not be worth it. Maybe stick him on Roberson sometimes to give him a chance to catch his breath. Also interesting to me is Durant's defense. I've never seen him play anything close to like this defensively. He's like Kawhi with a 3 inch longer wingspan out there... The last two games have surprised me. Blowouts. Golden State flummoxed on offense and defense. I was wondering about Curry...if in fact he's been hampered by the injury. In the meantime Durant and Westbrook are showing off their tremendous talents and the rest of the Thunder team is doing a great job on both sides of the ball (or is it Curry's injury???)
DonRocks Posted May 27, 2016 Author Posted May 27, 2016 As I type this, there's 9:01 left in the 4th quarter of Game 5, and Golden State is up 91-81. More importantly, The Thunder's players have "that look" on their faces that tells me, "We're going to have to win this in Oklahoma City." My best guess, at this point: The winner of Game 6 (and there will be a Game 6) will be the NBA Champions for the 2015-2016 season.
funkyfood Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 I bet on the warriors before the season to repeat but that game 6 is going to be tough. How about that run without klay or steph on the floor? Spacing seems much better
DonRocks Posted May 27, 2016 Author Posted May 27, 2016 2 hours ago, funkyfood said: I bet on the warriors before the season to repeat but that game 6 is going to be tough. How about that run without klay or steph on the floor? Spacing seems much better An NBA Championship this season would put LeBron James squarely back in the G.O.A.T. discussion - we'll see how much he wants it, and whether he has the support to do it with.
farmer john Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 The Cavaliers will have to go back to making a ton of threes to beat either of these teams. They are both strongest where the Cav's are weakest defensively (Irving and Love).
Steve R. Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 No horse in this race (unfortunately, I've had no horse in this race for too many years now), but I've been watching lately & just cannot get my head around how smooth Curry is and how easily he seems to play this game. As a "Jordan was the greatest player" advocate, I may have to re-evaluate if Curry can stay this good (& uninjured) for 3-5 more years. As great as LeBron is, I just don't think he takes enough control of the game often enough to be the GOAT. 1
DaveO Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Steve R. said: No horse in this race (unfortunately, I've had no horse in this race for too many years now), but I've been watching lately & just cannot get my head around how smooth Curry is and how easily he seems to play this game. As a "Jordan was the greatest player" advocate, I may have to re-evaluate if Curry can stay this good (& uninjured) for 3-5 more years. As great as LeBron is, I just don't think he takes enough control of the game often enough to be the GOAT. Well same here. No horse in this race. (also for a loooooooooooooooong time). In that I've been watching for about as long as you....Curry is truly amazing. He plays differently, smoothly (as you noted), and extremely effectively. I'm not going to go to the GOAT discussion. I'll simply state that Curry is the man of the hour, the year, and the style. Hope he stays healthy. He is fun to watch. BTW: I only watched parts of one of the first series of the playoffs--Atlanta vs Boston. (just to limit my tv time). I chose to focus on one player whose all around hustle and game I admire; Jae Crowder. Crowder came into that series as both a critical starter on the Celtics and off a pretty bad injury. Crowder was H.O.R.R.I.B.L.E. that bad. Always a moment short on defense, rebounds, in the midst of the play and his shooting was miserable. I think Curry's play against the Thunder similarly reflects his most recent injury. He is off this series. But when Curry is healthy and on...he is moving the game to a different dimension. Very great to watch.
Steve R. Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 So… Golden State was like, gone right? Playing Game 6 away, losing just about all game. And then they weren't. Holy crap… how composed and tough are these guys?! I am officially even more impressed. Cant wait for Game 7.
DonRocks Posted May 29, 2016 Author Posted May 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Steve R. said: So… Golden State was like, gone right? Playing Game 6 away, losing just about all game. And then they weren't. Holy crap… how composed and tough are these guys?! I am officially even more impressed. Cant wait for Game 7. The #2 players (Klay Thomspon and Russell Westbrook) carried the workload during Game 6, waiting for the #1 players (Stephen Curry and Kevin Durant) to wake up. As if coming out of a slumber, it seemed as if Curry - who looked like he'd lost all his confidence, and spent an entire quarter watching Thompson single-handedly keeping the Warriors within striking distance - said, "Hey, wait a minute ... I can do this too," and then he nailed a couple huge 3's towards the end. Durant, however, seemed like he just buried his head further-and-further in the sand as the clock ticked towards zero, and never emerged from his funk. Durant has done everything *but* win an NBA championship, and without a serious and immediate injection of self-confidence, he's not going to win one this year, either, because as good as Westbrook is, he can't do it without Durant's help (although he almost did). Durant needs to get angry, and the Thunder need to have a sports psychologist working with him for the next 48 hours - the first few minutes of Game 7 could be very revealing.
DaveO Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Good emotional challenging series. I have no worries about Durant's offense. He is a machine, but also Golden State has one of the better defensive players in the game covering him most of the time, in Andre Iguadala. If you watched the last game Iguadala played some great defense on Durant, and lest you forget last year Iguadala won the Playoff MVP, a significant part of that because of his defense on Lebron. This series is being played with big boy intensity.
Steve R. Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 Well, that was a fun game to watch. And now, Cleveland. 1
farmer john Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 Best series in recent memory and has a pretty good chance at repeating itself over the next few years as long as Durant doesn't jump ship (I don't believe he will- more money available in OKC as well as a better shot at a title than almost anywhere else) 1
DaveO Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 9 hours ago, Steve R. said: Well, that was a fun game to watch. And now, Cleveland. 8 hours ago, farmer john said: Best series in recent memory and has a pretty good chance at repeating itself over the next few years as long as Durant doesn't jump ship (I don't believe he will- more money available in OKC as well as a better shot at a title than almost anywhere else) I was exhausted at the end. Damn good series.
DonRocks Posted July 5, 2016 Author Posted July 5, 2016 Things have just gotten very interesting. "Grades: Warriors Outdo Themselves with Kevin Durant Blockbuster Deal" by Ben Golliver on si.com The Warriors have gone from having the greatest record of all-time, to possibly being the greatest *team* of all-time. The only question that remains is: chemistry - "There's only one ball to go around" - that type of thing. I'm *so* glad that Cleveland won the title now; before this, I was somewhat indifferent. Durant could actually play *small* forward, although the traditional set-up seems to have gone out the window now. If it was any other superstar *but* Durant, I'd be super-skeptical, but Durant's skills seem to fit in with the Warriors' game plan - now it's a question of who will be willing to score less points, and will the Warriors "X-factors" (Green, Iguodala) step up into being pure defensive and rebounding role players, to an even greater extent than before. This isn't a blockbuster; this is an earthquake. It's also an insurance policy against injury: If either Curry or Durant go down, the Warriors can *still* win. "NBA Players React to Kevin Durant Signing with the Warriors" on si.com Click 1
farmer john Posted July 5, 2016 Posted July 5, 2016 Hopefully they will find a way to lose, same as Lebron,Wade, and Bosh the first year. Live by the jump shot, die by the jump shot still applies (probably even moreso than before) and the league will catch up to small ball to a degree. (Durant plays way smaller than he is)
funkyfood Posted July 5, 2016 Posted July 5, 2016 Live by the jumpshot die by the jumpshot doesn't apply when they are great shooters and wide-open every time, as they will be here. Zach Lowe put it best: imagine Durant taking all those wide open threes Harrison Barnes clanked this finals. They need some size to fill out down low, but they'll crush next season barring injuries.
farmer john Posted July 5, 2016 Posted July 5, 2016 You are presuming they will be wide open all the time. Durant and ball movement have not exactly been synonymous to this point and if Durant were not busy clanking threes in Game 6 of the Western Finals last year the Warriors were dead to rights there. They will also clearly not be as good defensively or on the boards without Bogut/Ezeli. They will certainly be the favorites next season (and likely beyond).
funkyfood Posted July 5, 2016 Posted July 5, 2016 Durant is a better defender than Barnes. The unique issue these three players cause for teams is nearly unlimited range. You have to guard them 25 feet out, which means lanes will be WIDE open ... there's just no way around it. Add to that that Durant or Curry can be on the court at all times and the fact that this team got to game 7 with a hurt Iggy, bogut and Steph and this is going to be scary. I just hope it's competitive. Should be very interesting to watch either way.
DonRocks Posted November 6, 2016 Author Posted November 6, 2016 On 7/4/2016 at 6:30 PM, DonRocks said: The Warriors have gone from having the greatest record of all-time, to possibly being the greatest *team* of all-time. The only question that remains is: chemistry - "There's only one ball to go around" - that type of thing. The Warriors are now 4-2. "Do the Warriors Have Too Many Superstars?" by Al Saracevic on sfchronicle.com For most teams, 4-2 would be a good start; for the Warriors, it represents a total collapse. However, at the end of the day, the *only* thing that matters is that they make the playoffs. Then, Season #2 begins, and they'll have had 82 games to work out their chemistry issues. I do not think that the Warriors are going to replicate their 72-win season - the "only one ball to go around" theory is another way of saying, "too many superstars," and this may be an object lesson about chemistry and balance being more important than "sheer individual greatness." In baseball, you want as many great, individual superstars as possible; in basketball, you want balance. Easy to say now that the Warriors are 4-2 instead of 6-0; I wouldn't have bet on this.
DonRocks Posted November 12, 2016 Author Posted November 12, 2016 On 11/5/2016 at 7:00 PM, DonRocks said: The Warriors are now 4-2. The Warriors are now 6-2, and I watched them beat the *snot* out of the Mavericks a couple nights ago. They may not win 73 games this year, but who's going to be able to take an entire series from them? Two days ago, I'm pretty sure I saw them employ the following strategy, which could work very well with them: They figure out early on (in the first few minutes) who has the hot hand (it could be Curry, Thompson, Durant, Green, or maybe even someone else), and they let that person keep it rolling until he cools off - then, when that happens, the next hot shooter takes over. They have so many superstars that the odds of one person being in-rhythm at any given moment are excellent, and they just need to figure out who that person is ... then tell them to let it fly without any pressure - that lack of pressure will auto-feed the hot hands, and knowing that someone else can pick up the slack will make everyone a better shooter. This is a pretty scary team; coaching them is going to be the biggest challenge. I'd bet even money right now that the 2016-2017 Warriors will set the single-season mark for most 3-pointers.
farmer john Posted November 13, 2016 Posted November 13, 2016 On 11/11/2016 at 8:57 PM, DonRocks said: The Warriors are now 6-2, and I watched them beat the *snot* out of the Mavericks a couple nights ago. They may not win 73 games this year, but who's going to be able to take an entire series from them? Ummm... the same team that beat them last year when (imo) the Warriors were better? Scoring remains only a portion of a game rather than the whole enchilada. The Warriors were better defensively and on the boards last year unless Durant has gotten an infusion of toughness or willingness to play in the paint. Teams have had more time to figure out the Warriors as well- strategy in sports is not static.
DonRocks Posted November 13, 2016 Author Posted November 13, 2016 6 hours ago, farmer john said: Ummm... the same team that beat them last year when (imo) the Warriors were better? They probably were better last year, but they weren't as dangerous, and I think they're better suited for playoff basketball this year (picture a baseball team with three *great* pitchers and a solid closer - they're perfectly suited to win the World Series even though they might have less good players than another team). A voice in the back of my head is saying, "Seaver, Koosman, Gentry, Ryan ..." As an aside, how many people remember that Tug McGraw was on that same team? McGraw will always be a Philly to me, but damned if he didn't go 9-3 as a 69 Met. 1
farmer john Posted November 14, 2016 Posted November 14, 2016 18 hours ago, DonRocks said: They probably were better last year, but they weren't as dangerous, and I think they're better suited for playoff basketball this year (picture a baseball team with three *great* pitchers and a solid closer - they're perfectly suited to win the World Series even though they might have less good players than another team). A voice in the back of my head is saying, "Seaver, Koosman, Gentry, Ryan ..." As an aside, how many people remember that Tug McGraw was on that same team? McGraw will always be a Philly to me, but damned if he didn't go 9-3 as a 69 Met. I disagree that they are better suited to playoff basketball- they will still live and die by the 3 pointer and Durant has not really shown a "clutch gene" to this point in his career. Both the Rockets and the Cavs are currently making 3 pointers at a greater rate per game than the Warriors btw. I think the difference is that even though the Cavs have bought into the outside in offense they are not outside only- they can crank up the defense and rebounding a couple notches beyond the Warriors (and they still have the best player in the world).
DonRocks Posted November 14, 2016 Author Posted November 14, 2016 7 hours ago, farmer john said: I disagree that they are better suited to playoff basketball- they will still live and die by the 3 pointer and Durant has not really shown a "clutch gene" to this point in his career. Both the Rockets and the Cavs are currently making 3 pointers at a greater rate per game than the Warriors btw. I think the difference is that even though the Cavs have bought into the outside in offense they are not outside only- they can crank up the defense and rebounding a couple notches beyond the Warriors (and they still have the best player in the world). I'm not sure if I failed to make my point, or if I succeeded in making it, but you just disagree (which is perfectly fine): I think the Warriors have so many deadly shooters this year that it won't be "live or die by the 3"; it will be "live by the 3." And they'll start launching them early in games to figure out who's hot, and who's not. I think the odds of having every shooter ice cold in any one game are fairly small; the odds of having every shooter ice cold in an entire series are even more remote. Don't forget that Durant is as good at driving and tomahawking as anyone in the game - I'd be very surprised if he wasn't the NBA's leading scorer so far this decade. Their biggest opponent this year is their own egos - if they can keep them in check, and accept the fact that individual scoring averages will need to decrease, then I just don't see how they lose an entire playoff series (we can both agree that they'll at least *make* the playoffs, right?) I know, I know ... defense is half the game. I'm glad Cleveland won last year, but LeBron had to grunt up every milliliter of testosterone he had to do it - if James goes down, Cleveland goes down; Golden State can afford to lose their best player and still be favored to take it all.
farmer john Posted November 14, 2016 Posted November 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, DonRocks said: I'm not sure if I failed to make my point, or if I succeeded in making it, but you just disagree (which is perfectly fine): I think the Warriors have so many deadly shooters this year that it won't be "live or die by the 3"; it will be "live by the 3." And they'll start launching them early in games to figure out who's hot, and who's not. I think the odds of having every shooter ice cold in any one game are fairly small; the odds of having every shooter ice cold in an entire series are even more remote. Don't forget that Durant is as good at driving and tomahawking as anyone in the game - I'd be very surprised if he wasn't the NBA's leading scorer so far this decade. Their biggest opponent this year is their own egos - if they can keep them in check, and accept the fact that individual scoring averages will need to decrease, then I just don't see how they lose an entire playoff series (we can both agree that they'll at least *make* the playoffs, right?) I know, I know ... defense is half the game. I'm glad Cleveland won last year, but LeBron had to grunt up every milliliter of testosterone he had to do it - if James goes down, Cleveland goes down; Golden State can afford to lose their best player and still be favored to take it all. You made your point and I disagree. Golden State should certainly be the co-favorite at this point (with Cleveland) but I'll take the Cavs in a 7 game series given both teams being healthy. I just don't think Durant adds anything to the Warriors mix that they actually needed- he plays shorter and softer than he is despite being clearly the most gifted scorer in the game. The ball also tends to stop when it rotates to him and this is something an unselfish team like the Warriors will not appreciate after a while. If Durant had not pulled an all time choke job in game 6 of last year's OKC/GS series (stopped the ball rotation and jacked up bad shot after bad shot) the Warriors wouldn't have made the finals last year. It's nice to be able to disagree over something as harmless as basketball at this point.
DonRocks Posted November 14, 2016 Author Posted November 14, 2016 19 minutes ago, farmer john said: I just don't think Durant adds anything to the Warriors mix that they actually needed Health insurance! 19 minutes ago, farmer john said: It's nice to be able to disagree over something as harmless as basketball at this point. Agreed. If we were discussing college football, I'd be on my way over to your house with an AK-47. 1
DaveO Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 This play should have counted for about 10 points just on end to end style: A block, a pass made while falling, a crazy between the legs, behind the back alley oop pass and a dunk. ....and it was blown dead due to a foul. I'd have given them 10 points for style and inventiveness. Jazz musicians would find it thrilling:
DonRocks Posted December 30, 2016 Author Posted December 30, 2016 3 hours ago, DaveO said: This play should have counted for about 10 points just on end to end style: I felt like I was watching the Globetrotters (and I mean that as a compliment - and I'll bet big money you got excited as hell when they used to show up on Wide World of Sports - I know I sure did (that, and Demolition Derby)). We need to start a thread on the Globetrotters. Look at the very beginning of that clip - Thompson was beaten off the dribble ... I wonder at what precise moment his instincts told him to lay back and go for the block.
DaveO Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, DonRocks said: I felt like I was watching the Globetrotters (and I mean that as a compliment - and I'll bet big money you got excited as hell when they used to show up on Wide World of Sports - I know I sure did (that, and Demolition Derby)). We need to start a thread on the Globetrotters. Look at the very beginning of that clip - Thompson was beaten off the dribble ... I wonder at what precise moment his instincts told him to lay back and go for the block. Globetrotters: Ha. oooooh its been decades since I've thought about them. Did see them live once. The above sequence caught my fancy; each part of the play was entertaining, with that final pass being the ultimate; and that which turns the game into "show". And it didn't count. Ha ha ha.
DonRocks Posted December 31, 2016 Author Posted December 31, 2016 21 hours ago, DaveO said: Globetrotters: Ha. oooooh its been decades since I've thought about them. Did see them live once. The above sequence caught my fancy; each part of the play was entertaining, with that final pass being the ultimate; and that which turns the game into "show". And it didn't count. Ha ha ha. BTW, after I posted, I watched that sequence again, and while the buzzer blows, the announcer mentions "Globetrotters" - you have to listen carefully, but it's there.
DaveO Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 3 hours ago, DonRocks said: BTW, after I posted, I watched that sequence again, and while the buzzer blows, the announcer mentions "Globetrotters" - you have to listen carefully, but it's there. Competitive basketball includes globetrotter type plays. It's an element of the game, which is one of several reasons why someone like Earl The Pearl Monroe is rated so highly (as an example)
DonRocks Posted January 21, 2017 Author Posted January 21, 2017 Some people don't like Draymond Green, but I think right now he's *exactly* the person the Warriors need - perhaps need most of all - as he's not only an "enforcer," but he's leading the team in rebounds, assists, steals, and is just barely second in blocks behind Kevin Durant. Off the top of my head, I can't remember a team whose third-leading scorer averaged 21.1 points-per-game, but that's exactly what Klay Thompson is doing right now. However, not only is Green doing all the things listed above, he's also the Warriors fourth-leading scorer at 10.8 points-per-game. I used to think Andre Iguodala was the Warriors' "X-factor," but right now, I think Draymond Green has stepped up and taken his place, is having an All-Star-level season, and deserves to be on the All-Star team. Man, I hated to see him disrespect LeBron James the way he did, but part of his job is akin to what Dennis Rodman did for the Michael Jordan-led Chicago Bulls: to piss off the opponent, and allow the Gang Of Three (I just made that up) to get their 20+ points-per-game. Another thing I've noticed this year is that there's a certain entitlement in Stephen Curry's countenance that wasn't there in previous seasons - I'm talking about interviews; not his game performance. I think losing the finals last year was the end of his being Mr. Nice Guy, and I suspect that no team will be able to take them down in a seven-game series: How can you possibly take four games off of this team? Last year, they won 73 games because they caught the rest of the league with their pants down; this year, the league was fully prepared for the Warriors' onslaught, so they're probably not going to duplicate the win total, but they're also a better team, and are going to be impossible to defeat in a playoff round. I don't know what the odds are for them to win the championship, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was even money. The one person on this team that would hurt the Warriors the most with a season-ending injury is Draymond Green.
funkyfood Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 Some people don't like Draymond Green, but I think right now he's *exactly* the person the Warriors need - perhaps need most of all - as he's not only an "enforcer," but he's leading the team in rebounds, assists, steals, and is just barely second in blocks behind Kevin Durant. Off the top of my head, I can't remember a team whose third-leading scorer averaged 21.1 points-per-game, but that's exactly what Klay Thompson is doing right now. However, not only is Green doing all the things listed above, he's also the Warriors fourth-leading scorer at 10.8 points-per-game. I used to think Andre Iguodala was the Warriors' "X-factor," but right now, I think Draymond Green has stepped up and taken his place, is having an All-Star-level season, and deserves to be on the All-Star team. Man, I hated to see him disrespect LeBron James the way he did, but part of his job is akin to what Dennis Rodman did for the Michael Jordan-led Chicago Bulls: to piss off the opponent, and allow the Gang Of Three (I just made that up) to get their 20+ points-per-game. Another thing I've noticed this year is that there's a certain entitlement in Stephen Curry's countenance that wasn't there in previous seasons - I'm talking about interviews; not his game performance. I think losing the finals last year was the end of his being Mr. Nice Guy, and I suspect that no team will be able to take them down in a seven-game series: How can you possibly take four games off of this team? Last year, they won 73 games because they caught the rest of the league with their pants down; this year, the league was fully prepared for the Warriors' onslaught, so they're probably not going to duplicate the win total, but they're also a better team, and are going to be impossible to defeat in a playoff round. I don't know what the odds are for them to win the championship, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was even money. The one person on this team that would hurt the Warriors the most with a season-ending injury is Draymond Green. Warriors are -140 to win it all right now. Zach lavine was averaging 20 ppg as the twolves third highest scorer (now at 19.8 ppg). Obviously that team has lots of holes though.
DonRocks Posted January 21, 2017 Author Posted January 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, funkyfood said: Warriors are -140 to win it all right now. I'll tell you what: I don't bet on sports, but if I did, I'd be sorely tempted to take the Spurs at +800. There's too much time left for injuries to say with full confidence that the Warriors will take it all, and I think if the Spurs take down the Warriors - for whatever reason - then they'll also take down the Cavaliers. Of course, the X-factor in *that* series might be Kyle Korver.
funkyfood Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 Rockets at 18:1 strikes me as a much better bet
DonRocks Posted January 21, 2017 Author Posted January 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, funkyfood said: Rockets at 18:1 strikes me as a much better bet No D. I'll tell you what, though: If one of the top teams doesn't win it this year, a small group of people are going to be making themselves a tidy sum of money.
funkyfood Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, DonRocks said: No D. Ariza, Capella, hazell. 18:1 is so much better than 8:1 too
DonRocks Posted January 21, 2017 Author Posted January 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, funkyfood said: Ariza, Capella, hazell. 18:1 is so much better than 8:1 too Perhaps so - here's a dissenting viewponit: "Rockets-Warriors Rivalry Will Never Be Unless Houston Gets Defensive" by Maurice Bobb on bleacherreport.com Still, at 18:1, just betting $25 would almost get you dinner for two at Pineapple and Pearls' bar.
DonRocks Posted May 7, 2017 Author Posted May 7, 2017 Nobody is going to get in the Warriors' way of a title this year - it is an *unbelievable* testament to LeBron James that the Cavs did last year. Stephen Curry vs. LeBron James <--- This thread was started before the minor addition of Kevin Durant. I don't care if the Warriors don't lose a single game on their way to the title - there can be no individual taunting about LeBron James, not when you have Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, and Kevin Durant on one team. Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving are great players, but the Warriors are like the 1927 Yankees. The Warriors have the last 3 NBA MVPs, but in the last 8 seasons, LeBron James has won it 4 times by himself.
farmer john Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 ...and Lebron should've won it each time one of the Warriors players did. Westbrook and Harden this year are the first 2 players to be even close to as deserving of the MVP award as Lebron in eons.
DonRocks Posted June 4, 2017 Author Posted June 4, 2017 On 5/7/2017 at 11:54 AM, DonRocks said: Nobody is going to get in the Warriors' way of a title this year - it is an *unbelievable* testament to LeBron James that the Cavs did last year. If the Cavs can take this year's series to six games, it's going to be a miracle. (As of this writing, the Warriors won Game 1, 123-91, and Lebron James had 28 points, 15 rebounds, and 8 assists - what more can he do? Kyrie Irving added 24 points, but he could (and must) certainly step it up in assists - he only had 2. Kevin Love had 21 rebounds, but only 1 assist) Possible "nutritional supplements" aside, I have endless respect for James - six seven finals in a row? Ridiculous. And the first non-Celtic ever to do it. Perhaps the biggest testament to James is that, as of right now, he honestly believes Cleveland can win this series - he's not just blowing smoke; he honestly thinks they can win. They can't, but the fact that he thinks they can is remarkable. The fact that they won last year is beyond remarkable. Kevin Love just isn't a good enough three-man to overcome Golden State, and after Kevin Love, Cleveland plummets off a cliff: Their #4 and #5 starters, Richard Jefferson and Tristan Thompson, had a combined 3 points, 2 rebounds, and 4 assists in Game 1.
DonRocks Posted June 4, 2017 Author Posted June 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, funkyfood said: LeBron's now made seven straight finals Danny Crawford's made 23.
DaveO Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 4 hours ago, DonRocks said: If the Cavs can take this year's series to six games, it's going to be a miracle. (As of this writing, the Warriors won Game 1, 123-91, and Lebron James had 28 points, 15 rebounds, and 8 assists - what more can he do? Kyrie Irving added 24 points, but he could (and must) certainly step it up in assists - he only had 2. Kevin Love had 21 rebounds, but only 1 assist) Possible "nutritional supplements" aside, I have endless respect for James - six seven finals in a row? Ridiculous. And the first non-Celtic ever to do it. Perhaps the biggest testament to James is that, as of right now, he honestly believes Cleveland can win this series - he's not just blowing smoke; he honestly thinks they can Kevin Love just isn't a good enough three-man to overcome Golden State, and after Kevin Love, Cleveland plummets off a cliff: Their #4 and #5 starters, Richard Jefferson and Tristan Thompson, had a combined 3 points, 2 rebounds, and 4 assists in Game 1. JR Smith is the 5 Cav starter not Jefferson. Smith hit his first 3 pointer at the very beginning of the game and then whiffed on all other shots. He didn't shoot often. He was such a knucklehead for the knicks and now is a 3 year starter for the Cavs. (It's good to play with Lebron) He is primarily a 3 pt weapon The Warriors look great but after all Cleveland has Lebron and last year the Cavs came back from 1-3. The reason they play is to see who is better on the court, not in my head. I'm going to watch.
DaveO Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 I was rooting for a competitive finals. Game 3 was very competitive but from the perspective of a possible long series the results didn't work out as I would have preferred. Durant has raised his entire game to include defense shot blocking rebounding passing and rim protecting and oh boy what a shooter. Surprised he isn't selling popcorn in the stands. I suspect the Cavs were tuckered out at the end. Boy they wilted. Back to Durant and add the magnificent teammates and team game and even Lebron and Kyrie when hitting his sporadic magnificence can't beat Golden State. Whew!! Golden State is a real powerhouse.
farmer john Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 Best team ever under today's rules. If only Durant hadn't fallen apart last year at the end of Game 6 Thunder/Warriors the NBA would be a more interesting place. Hopefully Klay will leave when his contract is up. Tristan Thompson should have to pay back some of his ridiculous salary.
DaveO Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 17 hours ago, farmer john said: Best team ever under today's rules. If only Durant hadn't fallen apart last year at the end of Game 6 Thunder/Warriors the NBA would be a more interesting place. Hopefully Klay will leave when his contract is up. Tristan Thompson should have to pay back some of his ridiculous salary. I'm not rooting for or against either team but was hoping for a more competitive matchup. Durant has elevated an already great team. In the only game that remained competitive Green sat out extra minutes b/c of fouls. Might not have been as competitive if Green had had an extra 10 minutes on the court Meanwhile as the division titles were being wrapped up I was reading how Eastern division teams are all planning around when LeBron starts to lose effectiveness...and the Cavs are being dominate in that division That adds more context to the "best team ever under today's rules" GS is playing at a level that leaves everyone in the dust.
DonRocks Posted June 9, 2017 Author Posted June 9, 2017 Perhaps the biggest testament to James is that, as of right now, he honestly believes Cleveland can win this series - he's not just blowing smoke; he honestly thinks they can win. They can't, but the fact that he thinks they can is remarkable. On 6/4/2017 at 4:01 PM, DaveO said: The reason they play is to see who is better on the court, not in my head. I'm going to watch. Be sure and catch Nadal-Thiem in the French Open semis as well. The suspense is *killing* me. 1
DaveO Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 18 hours ago, farmer john said: Best team ever under today's rules. If only Durant hadn't fallen apart last year at the end of Game 6 Thunder/Warriors the NBA would be a more interesting place. Hopefully Klay will leave when his contract is up. Tristan Thompson should have to pay back some of his ridiculous salary. Here is an interesting article that touches on one of the elements of their possible "best team ever under today's rules" status: Article I don't really care who wins but I would like to see Cleveland win one or two....or more. I really think that Lebron is the closest player ever to Jordan...the one most capable of taking a team to championships...and here he is with Kyrie Irving, who is both one of the most dangerous and talented offensive players in the game, yet too inconsistent to provide it every game...and another stud in Love. And yet Golden State is remarkably better. Whew. Talk about raising the bar......
DaveO Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 On 6/8/2017 at 7:33 PM, farmer john said: Best team ever under today's rules. If only Durant hadn't fallen apart last year at the end of Game 6 Thunder/Warriors the NBA would be a more interesting place. Hopefully Klay will leave when his contract is up. Tristan Thompson should have to pay back some of his ridiculous salary. Fierce rivalry. I enjoyed the last game only in so far as it was reasonably competitive with Cleveland more or less in striking distance from the time they fell behind in the 2nd quarter. They couldn't get over the hump. Lebron carried them again. Thompson actually scored some points, JR Smith did about as well as he can do, Kyrie seemed to falter and reported that he hurt his leg then back, and Love sucked on the scoring front. Cavs reserves did nothing of note. GS played their death squad of the 5 best players most of the game and ultimately all that talent was unmatchable with Durant being a killer. Even with GS being so good I still think its a potentially competitive match up but to get there it requires the best Cleveland has to offer all the time. Durant really rounded out his game this series with points, effective scoring, defense and rebounding. He rose to the occasion. He was like Lebron. In this generation of basketball I think that is the ultimate compliment. Sort of reminds me of the mid 80's with great Celtic and Laker teams consistently competing at the top of the sport. Its simply the competitiveness that is similar; the nature of the game and the types of stars and skills are extremely different. I sort of hope they do it again next year....except if the Wiz steal a star or two from somewhere and break in from the East.
farmer john Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 11 hours ago, DaveO said: Fierce rivalry. I enjoyed the last game only in so far as it was reasonably competitive with Cleveland more or less in striking distance from the time they fell behind in the 2nd quarter. They couldn't get over the hump. Lebron carried them again. Thompson actually scored some points, JR Smith did about as well as he can do, Kyrie seemed to falter and reported that he hurt his leg then back, and Love sucked on the scoring front. Cavs reserves did nothing of note. GS played their death squad of the 5 best players most of the game and ultimately all that talent was unmatchable with Durant being a killer. Even with GS being so good I still think its a potentially competitive match up but to get there it requires the best Cleveland has to offer all the time. Durant really rounded out his game this series with points, effective scoring, defense and rebounding. He rose to the occasion. He was like Lebron. In this generation of basketball I think that is the ultimate compliment. Sort of reminds me of the mid 80's with great Celtic and Laker teams consistently competing at the top of the sport. Its simply the competitiveness that is similar; the nature of the game and the types of stars and skills are extremely different. I sort of hope they do it again next year....except if the Wiz steal a star or two from somewhere and break in from the East. Pretty likely we see it again next year with the exact same results. I question whether anyone can beat the Warriors in their current makeup playing as much isolation on offense as the Cavs do, despite the fact that Lebron and Kyrie are probably the 2 most effective players in the league at it. It's too much work. Cleveland looks a lot like Miami was beginning to look when Lebron left- all the role players are getting old and not particularly athletic. They could use some young long springy guys but Lebron has shown repeatedly he trusts older guys.
DaveO Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 5 hours ago, farmer john said: Pretty likely we see it again next year with the exact same results. I question whether anyone can beat the Warriors in their current makeup playing as much isolation on offense as the Cavs do, despite the fact that Lebron and Kyrie are probably the 2 most effective players in the league at it. It's too much work. Cleveland looks a lot like Miami was beginning to look when Lebron left- all the role players are getting old and not particularly athletic. They could use some young long springy guys but Lebron has shown repeatedly he trusts older guys. Yep. As the series progressed the Cavs seemed to give fewer minutes to reserves. Over the season they were leaders among 3 pt shots attempted and made but I guess GS defenses that too well and so Lebron and Kyrie went more and more to drives and isolation and as talented as Kyrie is I doubt he's been consistently great.... ever. I don't think he can sustain the necessary greatness needed against GS Lebron was a better distributor than scorer when he started but he's never played with a James Worthy kind of finisher. They'll likely meet again next yr. I agree with you. Right now GS is a freaking monster team with ridiculous talent. What other team could put 4-5 all stars on the court w/ 2 of them being among the top 5 in the league?? Ever
DaveO Posted June 15, 2017 Posted June 15, 2017 On 6/13/2017 at 7:51 PM, farmer john said: Pretty likely we see it again next year with the exact same results. I question whether anyone can beat the Warriors in their current makeup playing as much isolation on offense as the Cavs do, despite the fact that Lebron and Kyrie are probably the 2 most effective players in the league at it. It's too much work. Cleveland looks a lot like Miami was beginning to look when Lebron left- all the role players are getting old and not particularly athletic. They could use some young long springy guys but Lebron has shown repeatedly he trusts older guys. Aside from injuries or some other unplanned event I can't see a change from another GS/Cleveland match up. That being said here is the one kind of change/evolution that can change things: Its called the evolution of Giannis/ the Greek Freak....sort of well described by this story in Sports Illustrated Giannis improved so much, got so good, became so dominant...it was freaky to see how great he became. (admittedly I only saw him a couple of times...but geez!!!) He is talented on many levels and has a unique physical package. But boy he got good fast this past season. As the story describes he needs to improve his outside/3 pt shooting....and then uh oh!!!! Others before him have done so. Even if he improves at the same rate the rest of his team might still not be good enough. But if he improves and some other players improve at a level that nobody can see or predict than of course many things can change. There is a complete unpredictability to know which players burst through an existing level and vault to the next level. There are always players that leap into greatness and players that simply never substantially improve. I'd like to see Giannis continue to get better and hopefully see some others make similar improvements. Heck, Green, Curry, and Thompson did not come into the league with the highest of expectations nor were the most coveted first picks in the draft. Now look at them.
farmer john Posted June 16, 2017 Posted June 16, 2017 It will be Cleveland/GS (barring Lebron injury or injury to 2 of Golden State's big 4) until Lebron packs up and moves to LA to play for the Clippers where he and Chris Paul try to figure out how to each have a basketball when there is only one available. (Jerry West to the Clippers and Steve Ballmer's commitment to building his own digs instead of staying in Staples Center had me thinking about this earlier today on deliveries.) Lebron will be retired by the time the Freak is ready to compete for a championship. 1
DaveO Posted June 16, 2017 Posted June 16, 2017 20 hours ago, farmer john said: It will be Cleveland/GS (barring Lebron injury or injury to 2 of Golden State's big 4) until Lebron packs up and moves to LA to play for the Clippers where he and Chris Paul try to figure out how to each have a basketball when there is only one available. (Jerry West to the Clippers and Steve Ballmer's commitment to building his own digs instead of staying in Staples Center had me thinking about this earlier today on deliveries.) Lebron will be retired by the time the Freak is ready to compete for a championship. Barring injuries (the specific injuries you outline above) I completely agree. Having said that I'm just sort of meandering looking at other possibilities. The post above that mentions Giannis, the Greek Freak, is actually not the specific point I've been contemplating. Giannis is a THE prime example of a star that comes out of nowhere, or who makes an incredible leap, way beyond anyone ever imagined. I really mean him as an example...not the only option. A different example is the now starting center at Denver, Nikola Jokic. Did you see him this year? He was a sub/starter last year, was the opening game starter for Denver, was replaced as a starter then won the job back. Then he went bananas and is looking like a future BIG STAR. He is an incredible passer from the center position. Is easily the best most creative such passer in the NBA from that position and is similarly a quality scorer and rebounder. I caught him on some highlights, heard about him from a friend in Denver and saw him play in the 2nd half of the season. Whoa!!! A budding super star on the make, Where did that come from? His progress is similar to that of Giannis....and also similar to Curry and Green on the Warriors....players who explode into super stardom. Nobody saw Curry's development. He was about a 7th or 8th pick in a weak draft, was obviously a shooter but had only 1 year of playing point guard. He came into the league far far different than he is now. My lord he developed. Green was a 2nd round draft choice, a sub who got to start through injury to the starter. Bam Bam Bam. He became the great missing link that with Curry completely changed that team. Where do these guys come from??? Anyway this is just hypothesis, and my hope for more than 2 dominant teams. Houston soared this year and I think the creative move on their part came from their coach, D'antoni who changed the nature of their team. His coaching career is both creative and mostly successful when he matches skills to his style. Speaking of coaches Popovich with the Spurs creates winners and has done so with changing teams and leaders.......and we can always hope for that explosion with the Wiz..... But I demur....GS and Cleveland are the clear favorites. I'd just like to see 2 or 3 other teams challenge them at that level.
silentbob Posted June 19, 2017 Posted June 19, 2017 On 6/16/2017 at 5:03 PM, DaveO said: A different example is the now starting center at Denver, Nikola Jokic. Did you see him this year? He was a sub/starter last year, was the opening game starter for Denver, was replaced as a starter then won the job back. Then he went bananas and is looking like a future BIG STAR. He is an incredible passer from the center position. Is easily the best most creative such passer in the NBA from that position and is similarly a quality scorer and rebounder. Jokic was crucial to Serbia winning silver at the Olympics last year. Coincidentally, we were in Vail for a wedding last August and he walked past us on the street between the terminal and parking lot at DEN (ostensibly having just returned from Rio). The problem is his sub-par defense and tendency to miss lots of minutes with early foul trouble. That said, the Nuggets blitzed many top teams in the last few months, including a 22-point win over GS and double-digit wins over Cleveland and Boston. Unfortunately their inconsistency, inexperience, and poor defense don't match up well with playoff basketball so they're at least another couple years away.
DonRocks Posted July 5, 2017 Author Posted July 5, 2017 If so many people are "worried" about the NBA's one-team dominance for years to come, then why do so many people look back with such fondness about the 1960's Boston Celtics? 1
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