DIShGo
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I agree, this show hits it's stride around season 2 or 3. I watched it regularly for years, and enjoyed it, but I abandoned it a couple of years ago. -
**SPOILERS** will follow. It has been five years since I read "Unbroken," so I can't remember everything in great detail. Two parts of the book that do stand out in my mind, however, are: when Louie awakens, with his hands around his pregnant wife's neck, following a nightmare where he is trying to kill The Bird; and when he attends the Billy Graham revival in the late '40s and leaves forever changed. To me, the PTSD he suffered following the war is a critical part of the book. Strangling his wife was his rock bottom; the message Billy Graham delivered to him that day, his epiphany. So I was disappointed that neither of these scenes were depicted in the film. Don't get me wrong. I think it was a fine, entertaining film. I took my daughter, who had not read the book, and she enjoyed it. She also came home and immediately asked me for my copy of the book so she could read it. I think the film brought attention about Louie's life and the book to people who otherwise might not have read it. I agree with the notion that there was too much material in the book for one film, and Jolie had to pick and choose what to include. But I have to wonder if Hollywood bias and political correctness had anything to do with the glossing over of his Christian conversion. Yes, he was raised a Catholic. And he made a promise to God on the lifeboat, which was included in the film. But it was Graham, and his powerful message of forgiveness, that turned Louie's life around. I was raised Catholic, and attended a Southern Baptist revival with a friend when I was in elementary school. These two types of worship are like night and day. No pun intended, but I felt like a fish out of water at that revival. Still, there was an undeniable energy in that room that was like nothing I had ever seen. I think Jolie missed the chance to make a much better film by leaving these crucial elements out of her movie.
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"The Boyfriend" was VERY funny. I remember loving these episodes back in the day.
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What Are You Reading, And What's Next on Your List?
DIShGo replied to porcupine's topic in Literature
I just bought Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace. Has anyone read it? I might start a thread when I begin reading it. For now it is merely sitting on my bookshelf, waiting. I want to be sure I am able to give it my full attention before I start it. -
Achilles is such a coward, he doesn't even kill Hector himself. He has his minions do it, after Hector spared his life. Despicable. And then he tells them to spread the word that he has murdered Hector. Shakespeare took a character, known in Greek mythology as brave, handsome and nearly invincible, and made him a worthless brute. It seems like part of his broader message that war is stupid, no matter the reason for it; that love is often fickle and fleeting; and that pleasures of the flesh can lead to horrible disease and death. When read in its entirety, the play feels like a very dark comedy where you know from the start that things will not end well. The reasonable people in the play, who warned against fighting, who said Helen wasn't worth it, and who tried to take ego out of the equation, were ignored. The hot heads, guided by lust and ego and greed, prevailed, and the results were disastrous. I think, had I seen the play performed, I would have left feeling depressed and deflated. It has a very modern, cynical feeling toward the end. It seems to ask the question, "What is the point of any of this?" I did find it interesting that he allowed Thersites one more comic bit, where he talks his fellow bastard out of killing him, right in the middle of the depressing brutality of the final scenes. That's interesting that such a well-known phrase is from such an obscure source. What are your thoughts about the final scene with Pandarus? Did you find the ending fitting? Satisfying?
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- William Shakespeare
- Troilus and Cressida
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I just watched "Crisis" (1946), a Swedish film directed by Bergman. It was his feature directing debut, and he also wrote the screenplay. I enjoyed the film, and I felt like the subject matter translated well to today. Maybe it is because I grew up in a small, sleepy town and desperately wanted to get out of it, but I related to the main character. The story, while not earthshaking, held my interest. After we watch the rest of his films, I would like to go back and compare them to this one and note his growth as a director. I am sure this film will pale in comparison to the others we watch. For a first effort by a man in this twenties, however, I think this film is solid. It is not great, but it is good and shows the promise of its young director.
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Aristotle said that? I remember my editorial and feature writing professor in college always saying that, too. Let's keep going. It is starting to get interesting.
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I honestly forgot all about the iambic pentameter. Thanks for the reminder.
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I am not a fan of biographies, but "Unbroken" is the exception for me. I bought a hardcover copy of the newly-released book in 2010, after hearing Laura Hillenbrand talk about it on the radio. Having read "Seabiscuit," I knew I would enjoy her writing style, and Louie Zamperini's story intrigued me. I was not disappointed. Two years later, my son's high school had a "One School, One Book," program, where the entire student body and staff read "Unbroken" over the summer. The culmination of this, on Oct. 1, 2012, was a visit to the school by Mr. Zamperini, which I attended. He was just as I expected--witty, sharp, kind and humble. Mr. Zamperini's story is fascinating, before, during and after the war. My complaint with the film is that it focuses too much on the "during," and brushes over the "after." The power of forgiveness is a major theme in the book that is barely touched upon in the movie.
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To my beautiful mom, who would have been 94 today. It's been 10 years since we celebrated with her, but I still feel her with me every day.
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You are absolutely right. I *am* learning about Greek mythology by doing this, and it has whet my desire to learn more!
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I love the way you took this on, line by line. Thersites and his colorful commentary really add to my enjoyment of this play. He is hilarious. The language is so rich and descriptive. It makes the way people talk and write today seem lazy and unimaginative by comparison. According to my book, the term blackberry means, "a wild fruit so plentiful at the time as to be of little value." Also according to my copy of the book, "luxurious" in "dissembling luxurious drab, of a sleeveless errand," means lecherous, and "of a sleeveless errand," means, "on an empty or pointless errand (with obvious wordplay on sleeveless)."
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Thank you, I will!
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I liked this scene, too. There is a lot of foreshadowing here, particularly when Troilus chides Hector for being merciful to his enemies. It sets the tone for the rest of the play. After this scene, the play takes a decidedly darker turn. It serves as a bridge between the lighter, more comedic parts of the play and the somber ending. I wish I knew more about Greek mythology. I think it would enhance my enjoyment of this play. Sadly, most of my knowledge of Greek mythology stems from watching the Greek mythology plays my kids performed when they were in the sixth grade.
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Scene 2 was my favorite part of the play so far. I found Thersites' commentary amusing, I felt sorry for Troilus and I felt a growing contempt for Cressida. Until now, I had given her the benefit of the doubt, but after this scene, no more!
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I wondered that myself. I see no reason for him to be there other than to amuse us with his witty commentary, and that he does.
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I got so caught up in Act V this morning, I found myself reading Scene 3 before I realized I'd finished Scene 1! Poor Troilus. I feel sorry for him. Thersites' commentary makes these scenes. I love all of the clever wordplay. If only people today were so creative when insulting each other.
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That IS funny! It doesn't surprise me that you like this character. In my copy of the book, the introduction talks about how there are a lot of puns in this play, and how Thersites makes most of them. I completely understand about the mile long reading list. I have been trying to get through "One Hundred Years of Solitude" for months now. It would have been great to have you participate in this discussion, however! I enjoy your thoughtful and well-written literary analysis. Maybe someday, if you stumble upon your old college paper in a closet somewhere, you can add your two cents and enlighten us on this topic!
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Yes, I have heard it called that, too, which essentially means after being labeled a comedy, a tragedy and history and a satire, it was decided that it is really none of these. It also has been called a dark comedy, which I think is fitting. I was surprised at how quickly Cressida began flirting with the Greeks. I thought she would at least play coy for a little while, but she dove right in. I read that Shakespeare presents Cressida more harshly than Chaucer did in "Troilus and Criseyde," the poem on which the play is based. In Chaucer's version, she is portrayed as a more sympathetic figure. I think the kissing scene is a good example of how seeing the play rather than reading it would add a great deal. The expression on the face of the actor or actress playing Cressida would convey whether she feels she is being abused and is going along to make the best of a bad situation, or if she is truly enjoying all of the attention. It is difficult to discern from only reading the play.
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I told a man who runs a Shakespeare theatre company that I was reading "Troilus and Cressida," and he replied, "Why?" While I don't think it is the worst thing I have read, it is, at times, tedious. All of the war "talk" in this scene is the perfect example. I had to reread it because the first time I found myself skimming, looking for some real action to start. The kissing part, on the other hand, is amusing. Defining the genre of this play is one of the great debates surrounding it. While it is called a tragedy, it also has been considered a comedy and a history. For me, the comedy stands out, while the tragic bits are lacking. At least they have been up to this point.
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I just heard he is releasing an album of Sinatra covers in February.
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I would bet that your connection between Caligula and Nero is correct. Did you notice that one of the students called upon to bring up the final exams was named Bergman?
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I enjoyed this film. The first scene with Jan-Erik and Bertha reminded me of David Lynch's Blue Velvet. The tone throughout was Lynch like, come to think of it--dark, but with themes of hope and love. The acting was top notch, and I enjoyed the film's expressionistic style. The use of eerie shadows was downright terrifying. What do you think about the happier ending? I think Bergman did a fine job directing that part, but I don't think it added anything. I would have preferred the film ending with Jan-Erik walking away in the rain after seeing his friends graduated from school. I suppose in the political climate of that time, ending the film with a smiling fascist waving victoriously from a window may have been too much for people to handle. The resemblance between Caligula and Himmler is uncanny. Good observation. Based on this film, I am looking forward to the rest of the films in the Bergman retrospective.
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Yes, there is a lot of foreshadowing here, but why is Troilus so mistrusting of Cressida? Is he an insecure person by nature, or is it because he realizes that their love is so tenuous? I can't parse the words line by line in the exchange between Diomedes and Troilus, but it is clear, when Troulis asks Diomedes to treat Cressida honorably, Diomedes discounts his request. From 2555 to 2559, he ignores Troilus and speaks directly to Cressida. Diomedes praises her, and tells her he will treat her well because he wants to, and, consequently, she will give herself to him. It is as if he turned to Troilus and slapped him across the face. Troilus understandably gets angry, and his reply can be boiled down to, "Touch her and I will slit your throat." Again, Diomedes discounts his passionate speech. He answers, essentially, "Calm down, Troilus. When the time comes, I will do what I want with her, based on my feelings for her, and not because of anything you say." Diomedes is extremely dismissive of Troilus, and Troilus is powerless to do anything about it.
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Yes, I could see it being played on the side of the stage. There's not much to discuss here, from what I see. Troilus professes his love. That's about it. I say we move on!
