Joe H

The following post is from another thread and really should be here instead. I wrote this because in the other thread there was a response of surprise when I mentioned Silver Spring's background in the 50's and '60's. I thought I would give a bit more detail and, as typical of me, became quite verbose. ___________ Silver Spring is complicated. I grew up there moving from Wheaton in the mid '50's where we moved from "River Terrace" off of Benning road where I was born. I stayed in Silver Spring until 1988 and basically gave up on development, married and moved to Reston. I've testified (just a member of the public) at several public hearings for development but nothing ever got off the ground until I left. 1. Silver Spring had a population of around 66,000 in the early '60's and a very real downtown with the Silver theater and Roth's Silver Spring on Georgia between Ripley and Bonifant. There was a real binge of high rise growth in the mid to late '60's. Jerry Wolman created a real stir when he built the largest apartment building in the metro D. C. area, Georgian Towers which is the 8700 block of GA and something like 900 units. More high rises went up around the same time including the buildings across the street, a block away-Twin Towers, Silver Spring House (816 Easley), two buildings at Colesville and Spring, Pickwick Towers on Roeder road, a second and a third 16/17 story building in Blair Park with another 15 story across from them, 1316 Fenwick and 15-20 more high rises. The Sheraton Silver Spring at Colesville and Spring was a showcase which we were proud of when it opened. My guess is that by the mid '70's Silver Spring had 25-30 buildings 10-18 stories tall. Factor in the three department stores I mentioned above and Silver Spring promoted itself as the largest shopping area in the Washington metro area. It was solid middle class and those of us at Blair thought we went one on one with B-CC. I remember all this because I drove a cab in Silver Spring for several years while going to college, later Bethesda through the mid to late '70's part time. 2. There was a sewer moratorium in Montgomery County dating to sometime in the early (?) 70's which essentially rationed development and eventually stopped it. 3. When Martin Luther King was killed there was terrible rioting in parts of D. C. I lived at 710 Roeder road and remember standing on the high rise roof and watching smoke rise from the Georgia Avenue corridor four or five miles to the south and, in the distance, smoke rise from 14th street (Park road to near Thomas circle) and H street, N. E. Much of this area-many, many blocks-literally burnt to the ground. The next day there were tanks rolling down Georgia near Walter Reed with the smell of smoke in the air. As a result of this and the closing of so much shopping in the city, the ethnicity of eastern Montgomery County accelerated in its change.. Note: when I was 15 or 16 I worked at the Safeway at 14th and U. I had a close friend who went to Howard and remember seeing James Brown with him at the Howard theatre. I mention this because in '63 or '64 although I was white I felt very comfortable walking on 14th, walking on U street. This changed in the late '60's. As part of 14th street became very poor, so did part of Silver Spring. 4. Silver Spring's image gradually changed as did Langley Park and parts of Takoma Park. I grew up near Piney and Flower. This area never had a name. I played baseball and basketball at the Long Branch recreation center. Somewhere along the line somebody decided to start calling this area "Long Branch." I have no idea what they are talking about. 5. Montgomery County tried to spark development but was not able. There was some building in the '70's but eventually it ground to a halt. Into the '80's nobody wanted to invest in Silver Spring. It's image had changed and the county was very much aware of this. Over time a line between Silver Spring and Bethesda had "hardened" at Rock Creek Park. Triple 5 who had built West Edmonton Mall (8 million sq ft) and the Mall of America (5 million in Minneapolis) wanted to come into Silver Spring and build on the block bounded by GA., Colesville, Fenton and Ellsworth. The County was encouraging them. It never got off the ground. 6. Eventually the County spurred the redevelopment of Hecht's and later Discovery followed. After Discovery came the Silver Theatre and, in the last ten or so years, it has really taken off. Silver Spring is coming back. I give the county enormous credit for standing by it. Discovery? They are heroes. NOAA, too.

On another thread I found a video of a group of Brits who are members of a "chili pepper" club in the UK tasting a Calabrian hot pepper relish on a train. Intrigued I googled and found that they actually videotaped themselves tasting quite a number of hot peppers, sauces and relishes. Note that in the linked video one has a hat labelled "chili addict" and another is wearing a knit shirt with the inscription, "Clifton Chili Club. In the video three men tasted a hot pepper sauce which one brought back from the United States, "Meet Your Maker Retribution" hot sauce. This is advertised as five million Scoville units and the "world's hottest hot sauce." It is two ounces, $49.95 and comes in a "wooden coffin." I thought about posting this in the same thread but the video is incredible. Honestly, it is the single funniest video I have ever seen my life....and I am old. I've just never seen anything like it. It's also long. And worth savoring every second! You will be at the table with them. I suppose that I must be something of a sadist for enjoying it so much but suffice it to say that three very masculine members of a hot pepper club did not know what they were getting into. "I can't put my teeth back in because they are covered in it."

Addendum: perhaps unbelievably I found a youtube video of four Brits on a train somewhere in the UK sampling a jar of Delizei di Calabria hot pepper relish. No, it's not the same as the hot peppers I mentioned above although it is from the same "legendary" supplier. But, it's interesting. And sort of in the same general "family." And I found it! ...I could look for ten years and not find another video like this...

The argument can be made that the White House in Atlantic City, in 1947, made the first 'submarine" sandwich. Somebody in Connecticut who knows a bit about "grinders" will suggest that they started about then and, of course, we can talk about "heros" and perhaps even a Po'Boy. I really think the first submarine "style" sandwich on an Italian roll is American. But I could be wrong. Having said this... The AutoGrills on the Italian Autostradas have paninis (specifically, the "Capri") which you can buy and add Calabrian hot peppers to which the AutoGrills also sell for a frightful amount of money, i.e. E 10 for a small bottle. But, at the end of the day, will all due respect to Rando's Bakery and the Atlantic City Bakery who deliver rolls every several hours to the White House from a couple of blocks away, the AutoGrill's Capri with Calabrian hot peppers is one of the best things I have ever tasted in my life. I've never had a decent Italian sub in Italy. Of course they wouldn't know what an "Italian sub" was. It's almost impossible to find Calabrian hot peppers here (and they taste different from any other hot pepper in the world, especially the olive oil they are mixed with). hillvalley, you are lucky. However far an AutoGrill is from you it is closer than from Reston. These Calabrian hot peppers are the ones sold at the AutoGrills. The photo show an actual AutoGrill display. In America you can buy these from Amazon. hillvalley, you are indeed fortunate. This is the google translation from Delizie di Calabria's website for their shipping information: "Our company delivery throughout Italy including the islands by express courier. Deliveries can be made "‹"‹via the SDA or Bartolini. Delivery times vary, however, from 24 to 48 working hours. The cost of shipping will be displayed on the site during insertion order, but the budget should first be checked and possibly modified by our order processing department, prior to the execution of the shipment." When you are able to find a jar of Delizie di Calabria's chillies Calabria please post your thoughts on here. I will be forever jealous.

Great post. Thank you.

There is a problem with weed that is different today than when I was going to college: if I eat more I simply do not burn enough calories to work off the extra weight. In the late 1960's a friend of mine and I went to Ledo's in Adelphi and EACH ordered a large pizza with several toppings. Five pounds each? They were big. We were stoned. We ate every fleck of sausage, every crumb, there wasn't a smear of sauce left on the paper underneath the pie .It was an incredible meal-I had never eaten that much before in my life at a single sitting. It was good weed...but honestly, I haven't smoked anything, even a cigarette in more than 25 years.

My wife and I were looking through our high school yearbooks tonight and we thought about what has happened in Arlington and Silver Spring. She graduated from Wakefield in 1964 (2,200+ students in three grades) and I graduated from Blair in 1964 (2,500+ students in three grades). I note this because we both remember Rosslyn with pawn shops, Parkington and Clarendon which had a large Hecht's and downtown Silver Spring which was the second largest city in Maryland and had three major department stores (Hecht's, Sears ((at 2nd and Colesville)) and Penny's. Tyson's was a crossroads and Wheaton, until Wheaton Plaza opened, wasn't much more. Still, both Arlington and Silver Spring had very real downtowns. I remember meeting a girl (not my wife) in the late '60's who lived in Reston and thought she might as well have lived in West Virginia. Reston just seemed that far away. We both have our fifty year high school reunions this year. Her Arlington high school will have its reunion in Reston (!) and my Silver Spring high school hasn't announced where yet although the 25th was in Ocean City. As for traffic in Tysons I wonder where all of the new residents' kids will go to school given the planned growth. There is nowhere to build a new school for any age. In Reston the three schools behind our house (South Lakes HS, Langston Hughes MS and Terraset ES) have a combined 49 classrooms in trailers because of growth. For us the upcoming construction dust is the issue of the day with traffic to follow. And, I should note there will be more trailers to follow. The other hs that services Reston is Herndon and a $90 million dollar rebuild is planned for that in several years. Perhaps the model is suburban Dallas where two hs in Plano and one in North Dallas each have over 5,000 students. I wish Fairfax County would think about this. On the one hand it is truly exciting to watch so much development going up. On the other hand I also know that there will be a lot of people-and businesses-who won't move into the County knowing that their child might spend the next three or four years in a trailer. In the mid '60's Blair and Wakefield (and Don went to Northwood that had over 2,000 students also) were large high schools with the impact of baby boomers and explosive suburban growth. I love Reston, I love Bethesda, I love both Silver Spring and Arlington today and what they have evolved into. I'm not so sure about Tyson's which is trying to rebuild itself but will probably end up as islands of development for years to come. And where the kids will go to school for the 50,000 more that will move there is an interesting question in and of itself. Regardless, I am venting off topic (!!!) and the good news is that sooner or later Tyson's should get a restaurant that is not a steak house. It will be interesting to see what happens when the Metro opens.

I think this is one of the best threads that I have read on this board. Absolute pleasure to read everyone's thoughts. I was at Tysons today and drove by the Ritz Carlton towards 123. To the left of me was the crane for Lerner's new tower being erected and three or four people walking on its skeletal steel framework a couple of hundred feet above the ground. I pulled over on the side of the road and watched them for a while. Perhaps as breathtakingly dangerous of a job as I have ever seen.

I think the Ritz is +/- 252'. I looked for the height of the 22 floor Tysons Tower and the adjacent 30 floor apartment project (which as I type this still has another 13 floors to climb) but cannot find the height anywhere. I believe the Rosslyn building will still be the tallest in the D. C. area and the 30 story Tysons apartment building will be second. A bs guess on my part would be 325 to 350' for the apartment building. I believe it will top out about 30' taller than the Tysons Tower. There is going to be a real "downtown" feeling to this area at buildout. On the Tysons Corner Center side there will be 22, 30 and 26 (phase two) floor buildings. Directly across 123 will be another 30 story building along with one in the mid 20's. Now leasing all of this is another matter. I believe the Tysons Tower is 2/3 leased but Lerner still doesn't have a tenant for its 18 story building which is spec. At some point we should discuss restaurants in this immediate area since Monterey Bay is gone, Inox is gone, Michel's is gone and both Tysons Tower and the new 18 floor Lerner building are advertising fine dining restaurants. Can Tyson's handle another steak house? Another Joe's Stone Crab? Totally agree about the Westpark hotel.

This is an interesting topic for me since I sat in the Wendy's on route 7 a couple of months ago and looked out the window from time to time for 20 or 30 minutes. I didn't see a single person walking down Leesburg Pike. Today, I sat at the traffic light by Leesburg Pike and the new Wal Mart and wondered how anyone could/would walk across this if they weren't using the Metro. My point is that Leesburg Pike is so wide and so pedestrain unfriendly that even with dense development over the next 10 or 15 years I still don't see this having a city like ambience. Rather, I see "islands" of development which the author of the Tysons website mentions with connectivity between them. I do see Tyson Corner Center and the four phases surrounding that having a kind of downtown ambience. And, on Lerner's property across the street. But somehow walking across 7 or 123 is not like walking across Wilson boulevard and Wisconsin Avenue. I can also imagine trying to lease a 500,000 square foot office building such as the Tysons Tower or the new Lerner building where the crane is being erected. But, let's go 35 floors. Or 40 floors (450+'). Leasing this is another matter. Am I correct that the new "tallest building" in Rosslyn is 100% empty? And, it's finished. The amount of development is stunning which is proposed for Tysons. Similarly the amount proposed for Reston Town Center which already has 4 million square feet in the immediate Town Center and well over ten million at buildout. On the other hand an elementary school behind our house has trailers with 24 classrooms because they have to increase it's size by a third. Similar to the adjacent middle school and South Lakes high school which completed a $42 million dollar renovation now has a $15 million dollar expansion planned for 2016. Absolutely no idea where they would build a new school in Tysons. Or in Reston. Anyway, the growth is exciting. But there is a price. I can't help but wonder if Fairfax county isn't overdoing some of this without realizing the consequences of some of their decisions. The infrastructure just isn't there to support a lot of this. It would seem that the developers, understandably, are going for project approvals now when there is a "window." Realization of this, if at all, could be decades down the road. I would prefer Fairfax to wait and do this incrimentally to fully understand what they have approved. Really interesting that they have approved so much more from when you were involved. Last, I drove a cab through college in Bethesda in the '60's and early '70's and remember when a colonial house with a two car garage was $100,000 on/off Seven Locks road. That was pricey then, too. I wonder what multiple the land underneath Clyde's is worth today vs. the early '80's?

When Michael gave up the lease for the original Ray's something was lost. There was a kind of romance, a real character with that place.

An outtanding website that someone has done a great deal of research and work to support: http://thetysonscorner.com/ FWIW: Capitol One, as I type this, is going for Fairfax County approval for a 450' tall building (40 or so stories). Another building in Tyson has been proposed for 45 floors. A thirty story apartment building (next to the 22 story Tysons Tower) is under construction. Across the street cranes are now up for a 27 story apartment building immediately adjacent to Lerner's 18 story office building which now has a crane being erected for it. A webcam for it: http://oxblue.com/open/1775TysonsBoulevard and a webcam for Tysons Tower and the adjacent 30 story apartment building: http://www.tysonstower.com/construction-camera/ Tysons already has more office space than downtown Baltimore or Richmond. In a few years it will have more than both combined. And, by the way, a 425' tall building may be built where Clyde's is today.

"CaliBurger To Locate HQ In D.C., Plans U.S. Expansion" by Rebecca Cooper on wtop.com In 2012 In-n-Out objected that it's "red and yellow logo and burger style copied its longtime West Coast staples." Has anyone eaten at a CaliBurger overseas who has also eaten at an In-n-Out to compare? Apparently their first U. S. outpost will either be here or in California. Remembering that In-n-Out stopped a Utah clone a few years ago I wonder how far this will go if they are really that similar.

I really enoyed reading back through this thread. Bonaroti, Zefferilli, Da Domenico: all very good retaurants that receive little or no mention on here. A shame. We have really enjoyed them over the years. A salute to veal chops and North Jersey Italian. They are all still open and well worth a visit.

Because I have nothing better to do with my life I decided to count how many wineries are listed in the brand new 2014 "Virginia Winery Guide." There are now a total of 249 which is 17 more than were listed a year ago. The Winery Guide breaks the state down into a number of areas including generally which is labelled "Northern Virginia" and includes I 95 to Skyline Drive/Blueridge parkway, from the Potomac River south to an area just south of Culpeper. There are a total of 86 wineries in this area. I should note that all of this is within a 90 minute drive-at the most-from downtown D. C. Much of it is less than an hour from the Beltway. This includes Delaplane which is the new ground zero for wine in this region. The area that is labelled "Central Virginia" includes Charlottesville and is generally bounded to the north near Culpeper, south to Lynchburg or so, west to Skyline Drive and the Blueridge Parkway and to the east approximately a third of the way to Richmond. For years this has been thought of as the heart of Virginia wine country. But no longer. There are 78 wineries there which is eight less than in the "Northern Virginia area" which is the state's fastest growing. New Northern Virginia wineries include: Blue Valley in Delaplane (opening in late spring; this is a huge winery almost next to Barrel Oak (different owners) and will cater to a similar crowd with apparently large turnouts as well as a number of special events, Stone Tower off of route 15 south of Leesburg is an attempt to turn out 10 to 15,000 cases of better wine (generally about the size of Breaux or Barboursville) in a beautiful tasting room and an events center which like Blue Valley will features weddings and other celebrations. There is also Leaves of Grass on route 50 in Middleburg, Stonehouse Meadery in Purcellville, Nova Ridge Cellars in Waterford, Quievremont Wine in Washington, VA, Winding Road Cellars (next to Philip Carter) in Hume, Winery 32 in Leesburg and Wilderness Cellars in Spotsylvania. And, the landmark RDV is opening a high end tasting room this year to the public in Delaplane. I would suggest that Delaplane really is ground zero for this with more than twenty wineries within several miles of the intersection with I 66. The most spectacular settings of all are Delaplane Cellars which is halfway up the side of Lost Mountain with floor to ceiling plate glass windows overlooking the valley below. RDV is situated on a steep, rocky mountainside with an almost cathedral like silo which is a temple to wine and I believe will house the new tasting room. Bluemont has a spectacular, perhaps 30+ mile view and Hillsborough feels like the Tuscan countryside. To these I must note Glen Manor and Linden which are each beautiful and have outstanding wine that any state or country would be proud of. (Glen Manor '10 Petit Verdot and Hodder Hill, Linden '10 Boisseau and '09 Hardscrabble Red; they both also have excellent dessert wine to put away for ten or more years. Petit Verdot, by the way, is an outstanding grape for Virginia.) Delaplane Cellars (especially their '10 Williams Gap) and RDV are similar "destination" wineries for what they are making. 249 Wineries in the state of Virginia. I must note that last year we visited a wine festival at Reston Town Center. Afterwards we stopped in Great American Restaurant Group's Jackson's at Town Center for dinner. Jackson's does not sell a single bottle of Virginia wine. It felt odd with the wine festival a block away.

Yes, the cow one! That is still my favorite and the Audi (it is now near the end of the fourth quarter although there were two that just aired that I really like (Doritos and GoDaddy). Still, if I had spent $8 million I would have felt that it was wasted. This was not a good football game.

But not Audi. A great commercial!!!!! Why wasn't it on in the first hour? Huge applause to whoever was responsible for it.

We are now at the end of halftime. And, during the last commercial break I went to the bathroom. Just as I should have gone earlier. This "Super Bowl' is no better than any other NFL game from the perspective of commercials. They have just not been anything exceptional. I'm sure a marketing person will rave about them but I think the whole "look forward to the Super Bowl for the commercials" is over. They are commercials. And no better than any other game. A few people really blew it tonight. At $8 million a minute.

The Seinfeld commercial almost made up for everything else...

I am typing this at 7:45 in the evening, near halftime of the Super Bowl. Excepting one commerical with a steer and a bunch of cows I didn't like a single other commercial. Was that Fritos? I will even go so far as to say that a lot of people threw their $8 million a minute away. For Peyton Manning (who I am rooting for) thus far this may not be a Super Bowl they want to repeat. For myself, who looks forward to commercials during it, it's not a Super Bowl that I want to repeat either. And, FWIW, "Sonos" just played. Has anyone ever heard of this?

hillvalley, am I correct you are living in Switzerland just across the Italian border? I am also guessing that you are painfully aware the Swiss Franc is about .89 to the US dollar. At one time, in 1983, it was 2.75. I believe there is a life changing experience when one lives and works in another culture. I believe it is an education unto itself, every bit as valuable as an advanced degree. I might even argue more valuable. You are truly fortunate: most people in their lifetime will never have the opportunity you have. I also know there will be times, perhaps many times, that you will dearly miss simple American things: a television show, the US edition of USA Today and having lived in the Washington, D. C. area, just flying into D. C. at night and looking out the window of the plane at our city's lights. I know a number of people who have lived in Europe for two, three, four years and then returned to the States. All of them, when possible, would take day, two day or weekend trips elsewhere using where they lived as a base. Even if it's just getting on a train and riding in a direction for three or four hours, getting off in a village, town or city and wandering around, then returning: do it. I am guessing that you are not far from Montreaux, Verona, Torino, or half dozen incredibly beauitful Alpine towns in several countries. You could even go south to Bologna which is a city unto itself (and I love). Take advantage of your stay if you possibly can. But when you do come home, you'll have a perspective and knowledge that you would not have otherwise had. Enjoy your stay; you'll cherish it for the rest of your life.

agm, Barbara, waitman, I now understand that I am wrong about management taking any percentage off of the money distributed for tips. It has been drummed (!) into me that it simply should not have been done regardless of the reason. I am going to crawl back into the night....

Well, I should clarify. I passionately agree that the days of the "independent contractor" for waitstaff and much of the rest of staff come to an end. There should be/must be hospitalization, sick leave, vacation and other fundamental benefits that most every industry accepts as standard. All I am suggesting is that for many restaurants this is not factored into the price that is paid. In Europe it is.

"One of the Finkbeiners at the Hotel Traube Tonbach described the attitude of these family-owned enterprises as "thinking in generations rather than quarters." That means reinvestment, but because the families lack the resources of publicly traded hotel chains or new Emirati or Russian wealth, it also means picking your battles when making business plans. Hermann Bareiss told me that his family couldn't afford to compete on what he called "hardware" "” marble floors, gold fixtures, even artificial islands. Instead, it has chosen to compete in the realm of "software," by which he meant his workers. The waiters I overheard that morning in the breakfast common room, switching from eloquent French to German to English and back, were turned out by the Kerschensteiner School for just that purpose." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/magazine/one-tiny-german-town-seven-big-michelin-stars.html?pagewanted=5&_r=0 is an excerpt from a Sunday magazine piece in the New York Times last year about Baiersbronn, Germany which is an incredible village with two three Michelin star restaurants along with two others with stars. In a large village. But the article refers to the German apprenticeship system which these restaurants participate in and are exemplery examples of. The last sentence, "switching from eloquent French to German to English and back" is well taken. We've been to Schwarzwaldstube twice and Bareiss twice and every one of the four visits have had staff who spoke perfect English. This is not an area that many Americans or Brits visit. We were told that in the previous month only one other English speaking couple had been there. But they are representatives, examples of the German system where teenagers enter and literally serve an apprenticeship to become among the finest service staff in the world. Just as those in the kitchen serve a similar apprenticeship. The result is that in all of my years of travel with (pick a number) of days in Europe, the best service I have ever had in a restaurant was in these two, Bareiss and Schwarzwaldstube. I would also suggest that the latter is the overall best restaurant I have ever experienced. (The negative: a year's wait for one of the eight tables. It is known in Germany and nearby Switzerland.) This is where America should be going: professional service staff who are proud and passionate to be part of the restaurant/inn/resort they represent. For those "behind the range" a similar kind of apprenticeship. Both of these, all properly compensated with wages, hospitalization and disability, retirement and vacation. The price of this is included in the check as is tax. I believe that this is the way it should be. Unfortunately, it is rare to find this level of excellence in many American restaurants. Today there is not a great deal of compensation and benefits for this kind of career commitment. But it is where we should be going. And, as in Baiersbronn today, the price should be shouldered by those at the table. Bussers, servers, sommeliers, spillage, breakage and the cost of doing business are all factored into the prix fixe. One number. Anything over this including excellent service, a small amount in cash plus the credit card for the bill. It really is where this thread should go.

nm