Pasta-Making And Tomato-Sauce Tasting

[mdt]

As mentioned by mktye here it would be interesting to do a canned tomato testing. I figured this would be a great thing to pair with a hands on session of pasta making that I have offered to do for a couple of people.

The canned tomato tasting would basically consist of the following:

- select several brands of canned tomato

- blind taste in the raw state

- blind taste a simple sauce

- rate and discuss the results over a huge bowl of pasta while drinking wine.

The pasta making session would be an overview of how to make basic fresh pasta and some flavored versions. I will also show how to make some filled pasta shapes if people are interested. This will be a hands on course as there is no better way to learn.

This would take place on a Saturday at my house sometime after the picnic. What I would like to know is how many people are interested in the tasting and/or the pasta making session.

Comments and/or suggestions?

[Al Dente]

I'm interested. I'd be happy to pick up a few varieties of canned sauce at A. Litteri's (and wine of course).

I could probably also get my hands on a hand cranked pasta maker if we need it-- depending on your pasta production capabilities.

[mktye]

As mentioned by mktye here it would be interesting to do a canned tomato testing.

But it was your great idea!

Possible tomato brands to taste:

Cento (San Marzano)

Flora (San Marzano)

Sun of Italy (San Marzano)

Muir Glen

Contadina

Redpack (these always seem to win the Cook's Illustrated tomato taste tests)

Hunt's

S&W

Pomi

and maybe a brand that is labeled "San Marzano-type"

Other contenders?

[bilrus]

As I said elsewhere - I'm down.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

But it was your great idea!

Possible tomato brands to taste:

Cento (San Marzano)

Flora (San Marzano)

Sun of Italy (San Marzano)

Muir Glen

Contadina

Redpack (these always seem to win the Cook's Illustrated tomato taste tests)

Hunt's

S&W

Pomi

and maybe a brand that is labeled "San Marzano-type"

Other contenders?

I think most of the brands you list (Cento, Flora, Sun) as being "San Marzano" are actually "San Marzano Style." Canned tomatoes actually grown in San Marzano appear to be rare. See discussion here. Can I bring the big gallon can of San Marzano Style tomatoes that I bought at Costco?

[JPW]

Ummmm....

Has this event been OK'd by the forum host?

Have you requested your propaganda materials?

Finally, please remember that no funds are to be raised at the event itself.

Thank you.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Ummmm....

Has this event been OK'd by the forum host?

Have you requested your propaganda materials?

Finally, please remember that no funds are to be raised at the event itself.

Thank you.

I though we might take up a collection for the Rocks' Prescription Fund.

[mktye]

I think most of the brands you list (Cento, Flora, Sun) as being "San Marzano" are actually "San Marzano Style." 

Okay, then that catagory is covered and probably only one or two of those brands should be a part of the tasting (and mdt likes Sun of Italy, so we should go with at least with that one).

Have you (or anyone else!) found a supplier of "real" San Marzano canned tomatoes yet?

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Okay, then that catagory is covered and probably only one or two of those brands should be a part of the tasting (and mdt likes Sun of Italy, so we should go with at least with that one). 

Have you (or anyone else!) found a supplier of "real" San Marzano canned tomatoes yet?

Yes, the Flora San Marzano D.O.P. tomatoes I got at Wegmans appear to the the real McCoy. The reference to Sarnese-Nocerino threw me; but after reading the eGullet thread again, I'm satisfied that I have the real McCoys.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Might I suggest that we include a wine tasting component to this event? I was thinking maybe Robert Kacher wines.

[mdt]

Might I suggest that we include a wine tasting component to this event?  I was thinking maybe Robert Kacher wines.

Wouldn't a selection of Italian wines make more sense?

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Wouldn't a selection of Italian wines make more sense?

It might, if you can think of a way to narrow the field so that we have a coherent format.

[mdt]

It might, if you can think of a way to narrow the field so that we have a coherent format.

That should not be too hard, but this is quickly turning into an all day affair. Not that a full day of food, wine, and friends is a bad thing!

[Jacques Gastreaux]

In the meantime, I will keep a lookout for other brands of canned tomatoes.

[bilrus]

That should not be too hard, but this is quickly turning into an all day affair. Not that a full day of food, wine, and friends is a bad thing!

Aren't you glad we invited ourselves?

[Heather]

Ummmm....

Has this event been OK'd by the forum host?

Have you requested your propaganda materials?

Finally, please remember that no funds are to be raised at the event itself.

Thank you.

Piss off.

I'm in depending on the time. Do we need salad and garlic bread?

[brendanc]

It might, if you can think of a way to narrow the field so that we have a coherent format.

Perhaps choosing from a price range of Leonardo Lo Cassico Selections. I've always found them to be good.

[JPW]

May and June are pretty packed, so for me it depends on day.

It looks like you'll need every pasta roller you can get. Would be happy to loan mine.

[mdt]

Well so far it looks like we have a good deal of interest which is great. I will post 2 possible dates later this week for people to comment on.

Found this info on the wines suggested by brendanc.

I will surely need people to bring their pasta machines if they have one. I only have 1 hand crank plus a chitarra.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Here is some information on the wine importer from eGullet:

Winebow/Leonardo LoCascio --Always good wines but this portfolio is so big there seems to be no particular style or selection standards. Yes the wines are good and some are great but in an attempt to cover all the regions of Italy the overall quality level has been somewhat watered down. There are some great properties here like Allegrini, Altesino, Tiefenbrunner, Anselmi, Castello di Ama, and Bruno Giacosa.

And how do we handle the "simple sauce" part of the operation? That will involve cooking a number of different batches of sauce.

edited to add: Here is a link to Craig Camp's article on Itlaian wines on eGullet.

[mdt]

Here is some information on the wine importer from eGullet:

-

And how do we handle the "simple sauce" part of the operation?  That will involve cooking a number of different batches of sauce.

I am working with mktye to have the sauces made in advance as this is a tasting not cooking exercise. Between our combined experimental scientific backgrounds each one will be made in exactly the same way on the same stove. Besides we will have enough to do between making pasta, blind tasting sauces, and tasting wines.

[Al Dente]

And how do we handle the "simple sauce" part of the operation?  That will involve cooking a number of different batches of sauce.

To keep it simple, we could do the Marcella Hazan method:

Basically, you take a 28-oz. can of tomatoes, squeeze or cut the tomatoes into chunks, and simmer them with half an onion (peeled but not chopped) and 5 T of butter for 45 minutes.

[mdt]

To keep it simple, we could do the Marcella Hazan method:

Basically, you take a 28-oz. can of tomatoes, squeeze or cut the tomatoes into chunks, and simmer them with half an onion (peeled but not chopped) and 5 T of butter for 45 minutes.

Uh oh, here we go with the Northern versus Southern Italian way to make sauce. mktye have been going back and forth on butter versus olive oil in sauces for fresh versus dried pasta.

To keep from going a bit off topic I will keep my thoughts to myself at the moment.

[mktye]

Basically, you take a 28-oz. can of tomatoes, squeeze or cut the tomatoes into chunks, and simmer them with half an onion (peeled but not chopped) and 5 T of butter for 45 minutes.

Ha! This is the exact sauce I was thinking would be good for the tomato taste tests! (And the recipe that I've been "discussing" the merits of with mdt. )

mdt has suggested an olive oil-based sauce from a Mario Batali recipe. It also looks excellent.

  Uh oh, here we go with the Northern versus Southern Italian way to make sauce.  mktye have been going back and forth on butter versus olive oil in sauces for fresh versus dried pasta.

To keep from going a bit off topic I will keep my thoughts to myself at the moment.

Maybe we can hold a debate when we are all gathered at the tasting?

[hillvalley]

How can you people talk about tomato sauce without garlic!! The nonna I learned from always included garlic.

Depending on the date my pasta roller and I are in.

[mdt]

How can you people talk about tomato sauce without garlic!!  The nonna I learned from always included garlic.

Depending on the date my pasta roller and I are in.

Of course it should include garlic, but we really want to taste the tomato with as little additional influence as possible. The Batali recipe has carrots and thyme, but that will probably affect the flavor too much.

[hillvalley]

If you are going for the purity of the tomato then I would think all additions except possibly salt would then influence the flavor. Assuming you use olive oil that right there could change the body of the sauce. To do this right maybe the sauce should just be pureed tomatoes and a touch of salt. Otherwise there are a number of uncontrollable variables that could affect the flavor of the tomato.

[mdt]

If you are going for the purity of the tomato then I would think all additions except possibly salt would then influence the flavor.  Assuming you use olive oil that right there could change the body of the sauce.  To do this right maybe the sauce should just be pureed tomatoes and a touch of salt.  Otherwise there are a number of uncontrollable variables that could affect the flavor of the tomato.

I think we will get the purity of the tomato with the 'raw' out of the can tasting. The basic sauce will be to see how the different brands compare when used in a typical manner. This is the basic test that Cook's Illustrated performed and I think they do a pretty good job of testing.

Stay tuned to this channel for more info...

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Since Mike will be our host.....

[Jacques Gastreaux]

And speaking of rolling fresh pasta, has anyone seen the episode of Good Eats where Alton Brown attaches the roller to one and of an ironing board and rolls the pasta out ot the end of the board?

[mdt]

In looking at my schedule the best days for me are either Saturday June 4th or 11th. Email or PM me with your preference. I have no idea about time yet so chime in with suggestions or preferences.

Also if I do not have your email address please send it to me so that we can keep the coordination minutiea out of the thread. I will update the thread with information on how we plan to do the taste test and so forth so everyone can see and comment.

[shogun]

And speaking of rolling fresh pasta, has anyone seen the episode of Good Eats where Alton Brown attaches the roller to one and of an ironing board and rolls the pasta out ot the end of the board?

Absolutely! I have that if anybody wants it for reference.

[Erin]

For basic tomato sauce I really like Furmano's canned tomatoes, which I stock up on when they're on sale at Giant (and would be happy to bring).

Thanks for doing this, mdt and hillvalley!

[Al Dente]

For basic tomato sauce I really like Furmano's canned tomatoes, which I stock up on when they're on sale at Giant (and would be happy to bring).

Thanks for doing this, mdt and hillvalley!

I dig Furmano's too. Pretty good stuff.

I'll see try to swing by Literi's this weekend to take stock of their offerings. As I said before, I'd be happy to get a bottle of tomatoes and a can of wine for the event.

[mdt]

mktye and I will be bringing all the canned tomatoes and sauces in generic similar containers for the blind tasting. Once we come up with a list of the selected brands we will post it here.

What you all can start to think about is what side dishes you would like to bring as I am sure we will all be getting bored with pasta and tomato sauce.

[shogun]

Good point about the side dishes. Should we avoid very strong flavors with these, too?

[mdt]

Good point about the side dishes.  Should we avoid very strong flavors with these, too?

Not really. I figure we will do the tastings while we are fresh and save the majority of the food for the pasta feast at the end. Plus with all of us rolling out pasta there is not going to be much room for food on the tables and counter tops.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

I'd be happy to donate one of my cans of Flora D.O.P San Marzanos.

[bkeith]

Sounds like fun. Depending on the day I'd love to join the party if there's still room.

Happy to bring along a pasta machine too.

[cjsadler]

The tasting sounds like a great idea. Count me in. I have a pasta machine I can bring (and might be +1 with another pasta machine). Hope you have a big kitchen, Mike!

[mdt]

Ok everyone I have 15 people that have expressed interest, which is probably the limit that we can somewhat comfortably fit in my kitchen.

Only one person has chimed in with a date preference. To refresh everyone's memory the dates to select from are Saturday June 4th and Saturday June 11th. Time is TBD.

Please email or PM if you have a preference.

[Heather]

I am, alas, not in. The 4th doesn't work, and the 11th is Scott's birthday so will be busy that day too. Have fun!

[zoramargolis]

I get so many food magazines, that I can't recall the source for the blind canned tomato tasting I read recently. The upshot was that "new product" Progresso canned tomatoes beat out not only standard supermarket brands, but also Muir Glen. I've since bought Progresso canned tomatoes, and they are indeed very fresh tasting.

[mdt]

The date for the pasta making/tomato tasting session will be on Saturday June 4th. Time and other details will follow as we get closer to the event.

Here is the current list based upon people that told me that the 4th would work for them. For all you others please let me know.

mktye

bilrus (?)

bkeith

syzygy8 + 1

mnebergal

erin

laniloa

[bilrus]

the 11th is Scott's birthday so will be busy that day too. Have fun!

Me too. We'll be celebrating in Philly that weekend. (I wonder how many times the words "celebrating in Philly" have been used together?)

[Al Dente]

Alas, the 4th won't work for me. I'm being dragged out to get some "culture". Some kinda Shakespeare thing. And I don't even like classical music.

[mdt]

I sent out an email to those attending yesterday and a couple of people did not receive it. If you think you are attending and did not get my message please let me know.

[mdt]

The brands that were selected for the tasting are listed below and were purchased at local area grocery stores. Will the DOPs stand up to the 'regular' tomatoes? Stay tuned as the results will be posted sometime after I recover from Saturday's event.

Hunt's

Furmano (without basil)

Ferrara

Muir Glen (whole tomatoes, not plum)

Redpack

Sun of Italy

Cento, DOP (with basil)

Flora, San Marzano, DOP (with basil)

Here are the 2 recipes that were used to make the sauces for the tasting. Everything possible was done to keep things as consistent as possible in our home kitchens.

Olive Oil Recipe Based on Mario Batali's Basic Pasta Sauce from Simple Italian Food

3 oz. extra virgin olive oil

12 oz. onion ~1/4 inch dice

1 oz. garlic thinly sliced

2 oz. finely grated carrot

1 1/2 T dried thyme

3 28 oz. cans of whole peeled tomatoes ~1/2 dice

1/4 t salt

Heat oil in a sauce pan over medium heat.

Add onions and garlic and cook until soft and light golden in color (10 minutes).

Add carrot and thyme and cook until the carrot is soft (5 minutes).

Add tomatoes and salt and bring to a boil.

Reduce heat and simmer until thick (50 minutes).

Butter Recipe From Marcella Hazan's Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking

10 ounces unsalted Land ‘O Lakes butter

24 ounces peeled yellow onion (in half onion pieces)

3 (28-ounce) cans whole tomatoes, with their juice, chopped into ~1/2” dice

3/4teaspoon salt

Put the butter, onion, and tomatoes (with their juice) into a 6-quart saucepan and bring to a simmer. Cook, uncovered, stirring every 15 minutes, for 60 minutes. With a slotted spoon, remove the pieces of onion from the sauce and discard. Add salt. Blend with stick blender, twenty 1-second pulses.

Both batches were allowed to cool for 90 minutes at room temperature, then cool for 8-10 hours in the refrigerator, then frozen.

[mdt]

All,

We had a couple of last minute cancellations for tomorrow's pasta/tomato sauce feast so if you are interested at this late hour let me know ASAP.

Now back to kitchen...

[mdt]

Well it is the morning after and the flour has all been clean up, well mostly, and my kitchen is back to normal. All in all a fun day with good food, friend, and wine. I am looking forward to the pictures. The day started off with a couple of shuttle run to the metro to have me return to a full house of DR.com'ers popping corks, setting up their side dishes, and getting things underway.

We then started with a quick lesson on how to make pasta dough. After showing how to roll out, cut, and shape everyone make a batch or two of dough. While letting them rest we started with the first tasting, raw tomatoes. To keep this brief the rest of the day was spent alternating between rolling out pasta and tasting tomato sauces. We finished up with a good deal of eating and discussion about the days event.

Thanks to everyone that attended, I enjoyed it and look forward to some posts in the dinner thread with pictures of pasta dishes in the future.

A word of thanks to jparrott for donating some wine for us to taste.

A specail thanks to mktye for helping me to organize and pull of the day. I truly would not have been able to pull this off with our your help.

The tastings were done blind with scoring from 1 (lowest) to 5 (highest) for each sauce. We had 10 people attending and scoring, expect for the last sauce where we had 9.

Now here are the interesting results. I am sure that others will comment with details.

Raw Tomatoes

37 Hunts

34 Ferrara

31 Redpack and Sun of Italy

29 Muir Glen and Cento DOP

26 Furmano's

23 Flora DOP

Butter Sauce

34 Furmano's

32 Muir Glen and Redpack

29.5 Hunt's

28 Cento DOP

27 Sun of Italy and Flora DOP

26.5 Ferrara

Olive Oil Sauce

31.5 Hunt's

30 Redpack

27 Ferrara and Sun of Italy

24 Muir Glen

23 Furmano's

19 Cento DOP

16 Flora DOP

Total Scores

98 Hunt's

93 Redpack

87.5 Ferrara

85 Sun of Italy and Muir Glen

83 Furmano's

76 Cento DOP

66 Flora DOP

[crackers]

Amazingly Mdt and mktye pulled this off exactly as envisioned. A huge thanks for all the pre-planning and prep by both of them, (mdt making sample pasta batches and delicious ravioli fillings and mktye re-heating and stirring sauce batches literally for hours and making breadsticks, not to mention all the sauce making and set-up details by both) so many of us could experience pasta making for the first time, taste testing tomatoes, and sampling the results. Here are the first batch of photos. Just wish I had taken a photo of mdt's pb&j ravioli with whipped cream on top! Yum!

Bilrus tries his hand:

Electric pasta cranking:

Fun with flour and eggs:

Shogun gets crankhy:

Our results rest up:

Straight from the can taste test:

Sauce #1 taste test:

Putting it all together:

Mktye's breadsticks:

Non una goccia lasciata!

Edited June 5, 2005 by crackers

[Stretch]

Wow. So much for paying extra for DOP! And Hunt's the clear winner. If you'd run a betting pool on the side, Mike, the house would have cleaned up...

[bilrus]

Thanks to our host MDT and mktye for pulling this together and organizing it as well as they did. It was like a well oiled (or buttered) machine.

I had a great time and am pumped about making some delicate ravioli soon. I only wish I could have stuck around to taste my handiwaork yesterday.

Amazed that Hunt's won, but that is what I have in my pantry on a regular basis.

Which brand was the infamaous "Brand H" that almost universally caused people's eyes to bug out and say "Ughh."?

And it looks from the scores like the Hazan butter sauce was the clear winner over Batali's olive oil sauce. I didn't get to try the Batali sauce yesterday but this is usually my go-to sauce. That may be changing after yesterday.

Edited June 5, 2005 by bilrus

[bilrus]

Here are some pics:

Edited June 5, 2005 by bilrus

[bilrus]

And some more:

[mktye]

More thanks...

To mdt for opening his home to us and putting up with all my "help".

To all the participants for bringing their excellent palates and tasting 24(!) samples. You all were what made the tasting part of the day such a success.

And also for all those great sides that rounded out our eating... Crackers' charcuterie plate, Shogun's cheese plate, Laniloa's delicious grilled zucchini, cjsadler's wonderful caramelized onion/fennel crostini, Cresent Fresh's grating cheeses for the pasta, bilrus' tasty rosemary cake (which was also fantastic toasted for breakfast this morning!) and JG's much-appreciated tomato/mozzarella salad. And in his "spare" time, mdt also made scones, biscotti, chocolate cookies & ricotta cheesecakes -- all yummy and a perfect finish to the day.

More pictures...

mdt demonstrating the fine points of using a pasta roller

The tasting begins...

Raw samples ready to be tasted

The contenders

Edited June 5, 2005 by mktye

[Jacques Gastreaux]

I'll add my thanks to mdt for his sponsorship of the first DR.com periodic taste test (it remains to be determined just how periodic these things will be) and to mktye for her painstaking devotion to detail and to both for all their hard work. The only thing the rest of us did was to show up, bring some alcohol and some extra food, and our palates. By my clock, the event lasted about 9 hours, from start to finish. (God, was mdt's kitchen pitted out).

And the infamous brand (joe) H was, the Flora San Marzano DOPs. I consistenly rated it the lowest of the 8. There was much speculation as to why the DOPs uniformly scored so lowly. Freshness was one possiblity, the DOPs have to travel from Italy in a container and perhaps that leads to a degradation of quality. But I, for one, will no longer be going the extra mile or wasting my money on imported tomatos or spending extra for San Marzanos, no matter where they are grown. I'll wait for the Hunt's to go on sale.

Thinking ahead to the next one of these, perhaps fresh mozzerela cheese. The question to be anwered "does the added expense of imported bufala mozzerela translate into added flavor, texture, etc,?"

[Al Dente]

Far out! You have performed a great service on behalf tomato sauce eaters everywhere.

What does the dry cleaning bill come to?

[Jacques Gastreaux]

What does the dry cleaning bill come to?

Coincindicentally, the dry cleaning bill is approximately equal to the wine tab; very high.

[mktye]

Individual scoring and a bit of data analysis (courtesy of Mr. mktye):

Raw Tomatoes Data

Graphs of individual scores for the Raw Tomatoes

Butter Sauce Data

Graphs of individual scores for the Butter Sauce

Olive Oil Sauce Data

Graphs of individual scores for the Olive Oil Sauce

Edited June 6, 2005 by mktye

[crackers]

mdt making it look easy

fortunately pastry bags were optional - we left ours at home.

Edited June 5, 2005 by crackers

[laniloa]

Let me add to the chorus praising mdt and mktye for pulling off such a wonderful event. It was enlightening to all. Throughout the tasting you could hear people making a variety of interesting sounds as they contemplated the far greater range of difference then we all expected. While we all thought the raw tasting would showcase the difference we expected the sauce making process would cover a wider range of sins. It didn't. Thanks for the graphs mktye, they really highlight that some of the samples were bad to everyone (objectively bad) and others had a wide range of opinion (subjective). It reminds me of the discussion on the can you be too serious about food thread.

All in all a great day of tasting tomato, wine, pasta, and good conversation while very patient teachers helped us make fabulous pasta even with our best efforts to trash mdt's kitchen.

[CrescentFresh]

I just finished cranking out the rest of the dough that I brought home last night. mdt and mktye rock. thank you. The last time I had that much fun at a white powder party was about 1985.

I particularly would like to thank the person who really made it all possible -- mdt's grandma.

[mktye]

Thinking ahead to the next one of these, perhaps fresh mozzerela cheese.  The question to be anwered "does the added expense of imported bufala mozzerela translate into added flavor, texture, etc,?"

Sounds like a great idea! Count me in.

And how about after that, a taste test only for the strong of heart (literally), the daring, those with more nuts than a ventworm...

Yes, a day of tasting... bacon!

Would the bacon coming from deep-bedded, pampered piggies win out? And what about bacon smoked with wood only from organically farmed apple orchards? Or would the tastiest be the pumped full 'o chemicals, artificial-smoke-flavored bacon from hormone-injected pigs?

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Sounds like a great idea!  Count me in.

And how about after that, a taste test only for the strong of heart (literally), the daring, those with more nuts than a ventworm...

Yes, a day of tasting...  bacon!

Would the bacon coming from deep-bedded, pampered piggies win out?  And what about bacon smoked with wood only from organically farmed apple orchards?  Or would the tastiest be the pumped full 'o chemicals, artificial-smoke-flavored bacon from hormone-injected pigs?   

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

[mdt]

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

That is one damn good, no great idea. You gonna host JG?

[Jacques Gastreaux]

That is one damn good, no great idea.  You gonna host JG? 

Perhaps after the construction is finished.

[mktye]

I will pass along the praise to Mr. mktye -- it was his idea. He also proposed we should taste the bacon by itself, in BLT's and then in bacon cheeseburgers. And then eat all the leftover test bacon with garlic mashed potatoes and lots of sour cream!

But I don't know about waiting until JG's construction is finished... that could be a few years!

[jparrott]

Date and bacon fritter taste-off! Different brands/kinds of dates and bacon, and a scoring matrix! The wonder, the excitement, the geekiness!

[CrescentFresh]

I will pass along the praise to Mr. mktye -- it was his idea.  He also proposed we should taste the bacon by itself, in BLT's and then in bacon cheeseburgers.  And then eat all the leftover test bacon with garlic mashed potatoes and lots of sour cream!

We can work out the where and when details later. In the meantime, what do I need to bring???!!!!

[crackers]

. . . .bacon by itself, in BLT's and then in bacon cheeseburgers. And then eat all the leftover test bacon with garlic mashed potatoes and lots of sour cream! . . .

We can work out the where and when details later.  In the meantime, what do I need to bring???!!!!

For starters, a home defibrillator might come in handy Edited June 6, 2005 by crackers

[bilrus]

I posted the results of my left over pasta dough here on the dinner thread.

I made papardelle by rolling the sheets of dough last night and cutting them sprinkled with corn meal. I put them in the water still rolled and most came unrolled, but not all. I'm thinking for the wider cuts I should unroll them first before going in teh water. But on the whole, much more delicate than I've made in the past.

[mdt]

I posted the results of my left over pasta dough here on the dinner thread.

I made papardelle by rolling the sheets of dough last night and cutting them sprinkled with corn meal.  I put them in the water still rolled and most came unrolled, but not all.  I'm thinking for the wider cuts I should unroll them first before going in teh water.  But on the whole, much more delicate than I've made in the past.

Let the sheet dry more before rolling and cutting and they will unravel when you put them in the boiling water. Keep a dish towel over the sheets so that they do not dry too quickly.

Other than that you pasta was looking good. If you want silkier pasta try the Italian Style flour from King Arthur.

[shogun]

Just wanted to add my belated (Still no internet access, but FWIW I'm basically done moving!) thanks to MDT and Mktye for the awesome day! I had a really great time...we need to do things like this more often! I'm definitely going to need a pasta machine for the new place!

You guys rule! Viva DR.com!

[laniloa]

I just received my July e-notes from Cook's Illustrated. It said that the September/October issue will have a test of canned tomatoes with American brands beating the Italians. Of course, that's old news to us!

[shogun]

Alright, who's the plant?

Edited July 7, 2005 by shogun

[mdt]

Just thought I would bring this post back up to the top as Cook's Illustrated just published their review of canned tomatoes.

The top 3 were Progresso Whole w/Basil, RedPack, and Hunt's. It looks like we did a pretty good job overall.

More info here:

SO05_TastingTomatoes.pdf

[mktye]

A word of warning:

When rolling pasta (especially when one is in a hurry) with a pasta machine with a removable handle, it is prudent to ensure the handle is fully seated in the body of the machine before madly cranking on it. Not doing so can result in the handle flying out of the machine, out of one's hand and into one's face , which can subsequently result in a nasty bruise, a semi-black eye and abundant muffled wimpering (so as to not awaken napping house guests).

[Fishinnards]

Well it is the morning after and the flour has all been clean up, well mostly, and my kitchen is back to normal. All in all a fun day with good food, friend, and wine. I am looking forward to the pictures. The day started off with a couple of shuttle run to the metro to have me return to a full house of DR.com'ers popping corks, setting up their side dishes, and getting things underway.

We then started with a quick lesson on how to make pasta dough. After showing how to roll out, cut, and shape everyone make a batch or two of dough. While letting them rest we started with the first tasting, raw tomatoes. To keep this brief the rest of the day was spent alternating between rolling out pasta and tasting tomato sauces. We finished up with a good deal of eating and discussion about the days event.

Thanks to everyone that attended, I enjoyed it and look forward to some posts in the dinner thread with pictures of pasta dishes in the future.

A word of thanks to jparrott for donating some wine for us to taste.

A specail thanks to mktye for helping me to organize and pull of the day. I truly would not have been able to pull this off with our your help.

The tastings were done blind with scoring from 1 (lowest) to 5 (highest) for each sauce. We had 10 people attending and scoring, expect for the last sauce where we had 9.

Now here are the interesting results. I am sure that others will comment with details.

Raw Tomatoes

37 Hunts

34 Ferrara

31 Redpack and Sun of Italy

29 Muir Glen and Cento DOP

26 Furmano's

23 Flora DOP

Butter Sauce

34 Furmano's

32 Muir Glen and Redpack

29.5 Hunt's

28 Cento DOP

27 Sun of Italy and Flora DOP

26.5 Ferrara

Olive Oil Sauce

31.5 Hunt's

30 Redpack

27 Ferrara and Sun of Italy

24 Muir Glen

23 Furmano's

19 Cento DOP

16 Flora DOP

Total Scores

98 Hunt's

93 Redpack

87.5 Ferrara

85 Sun of Italy and Muir Glen

83 Furmano's

76 Cento DOP

66 Flora DOP

I know it's been 8 years since this Tomato sauce tasting, but I read it with great interest a while back. I usually buy San Marzano DOP when I cook southern Italian. I decided to try the winner (Hunts) instead of something else from Italy. When I was cooking, I noticed that the sodium content was way higher on the Hunts than whatever else I'm used to using. I also notice quite a bit of variation in sodium content between types of canned tomatoes. I was wondering if anyone remembers if this was controlled for in the tasting. It appears that it was not. I haven't gone back to using Hunts after my first try because I like to salt my own food. This was a few months ago so I don't remember the numbers, but I just looked it up on the Hunt's website and it says 190mg per 1/2 cup. I compared it to Cento San Marzano DOP which I think was the other one I had at the time. This website says 20mg of sodium per 1/2 cup. That means Hunts has almost 10x more sodium than Cento (and probably most others). Since people like salt (myself included) I think this might skew any taste comparison between brands. I was a bit surprised that nobody noticed this, though It's been a while since I read the whole thread, so maybe it's in there.

[The Hersch]

I was wondering if anyone remembers if this was controlled for in the tasting. It appears that it was not. I haven't gone back to using Hunts after my first try because I like to salt my own food. This was a few months ago so I don't remember the numbers, but I just looked it up on the Hunt's website and it says 190mg per 1/2 cup. I compared it to Cento San Marzano DOP which I think was the other one I had at the time. This website says 20mg of sodium per 1/2 cup. That means Hunts has almost 10x more sodium than Cento (and probably most others). Since people like salt (myself included) I think this might skew any taste comparison between brands. I was a bit surprised that nobody noticed this, though It's been a while since I read the whole thread, so maybe it's in there.

I agree that varying amounts of salt among taste-tested products would probably skew the results, and would have thought that the more salt, the higher the rank. Canned tomatoes with no added salt taste pretty awful until you add some salt. But I just looked up a couple of the other products that didn't rate as high as Hunts, and Redpack has 220mg of salt per 1/2 cup. Muir Glen has 260mg.

[Fishinnards]

I agree that varying amounts of salt among taste-tested products would probably skew the results, and would have thought that the more salt, the higher the rank. Canned tomatoes with no added salt taste pretty awful until you add some salt. But I just looked up a couple of the other products that didn't rate as high as Hunts, and Redpack has 220mg of salt per 1/2 cup. Muir Glen has 260mg.

Interesting. It seems the American brands have more sodium in general. Though I don't cook southern Italian as much as I used to, I always preferred Italian brands (even if they weren't San Marzano). They always seemed to have tomatoes that were fully ripe (and easy to crush by hand). American brands always seemed to be canned before they were fully ripe. Of course it's been awhile since I cooked with canned tomatoes on the regular.

[The Hersch]

Interesting. It seems the American brands have more sodium in general. Though I don't cook southern Italian as much as I used to, I always preferred Italian brands (even if they weren't San Marzano). They always seemed to have tomatoes that were fully ripe (and easy to crush by hand). American brands always seemed to be canned before they were fully ripe. Of course it's been awhile since I cooked with canned tomatoes on the regular.

I generally use Italian brand Bionaturae organic strained tomatoes ("passata") for sauce. It comes in a glass bottle and contains 15mg sodium per 1/2 cup (no added salt). I totally agree about salting my own food. Once you add some salt to the Bionaturae passata, it has a deep, satisfying tomato flavor, at least to me.

[weezy]

Interesting. It seems the American brands have more sodium in general. Though I don't cook southern Italian as much as I used to, I always preferred Italian brands (even if they weren't San Marzano). They always seemed to have tomatoes that were fully ripe (and easy to crush by hand). American brands always seemed to be canned before they were fully ripe. Of course it's been awhile since I cooked with canned tomatoes on the regular.

Part of it is that American tomatoes use calcium chloride (I think that's the correct chemical-- saw it on ATK quite awhile ago) in their canning process and Italian brands do not. This keeps the cell walls from collapsing and thus chunkier in later uses.

[Anna Phor]

Can anyone suggest a reliable recipe for whole wheat pasta? Google reveals mostly consensus on ingredients (w/w flour, eggs, olive oil, salt) but very little on the various proportions.