130 replies to this topic

[jasonc]

OK big guy, what is your ideal martini?

It's pretty much been nailed here already. What I've been drinking a lot of lately is tangueray, dry vermouth and a dash of bitters. i've been playing around with different bitters - regans' orange is good, but i've been messing around with peychaud's and fee's. maybe not the classic, but i will report back when i decide on what i like best. i would like to try some other gins, but unfortunately liquor is ridiculous expensive where i am, and i'd rather not be stuck with something i don't like.

[plunk]

Thank you all for the insight and the recommendations. My next question: what type and/or brand of olives do you prefer?

[Waitman]

A twist.

[shogun]

A twist.

Yes yes, very droll.
I'm partial to the 'Santa Barbra Olive Co. pimento-stuffed martini olive'. Very tasty.

[deangold]

Thank you all for the insight and the recommendations. My next question: what type and/or brand of olives do you prefer?

Divina Red Pepper stuffed.

[Sthitch]

Tonight I made a martini with Blue Coat Gin. Wow, now this is the way gin should taste. It is too bad this stuff is only availalbe in PA, Delaware, and New Jersey.

[Mark Slater]

Yes yes, very droll.
I'm partial to the 'Santa Barbra Olive Co. pimento-stuffed martini olive'. Very tasty.

Pish & Tosh. Everybody knows SBOC blue cheese stuffed olives are the best.

[alan7147]

I agree that No. 209 is difficult to find, but not nearly as difficult as Martin Miller's Westbourne Strength, which in my opinion makes the best Martini I have ever had. But it is very difficult to find, and I have yet to find it in the city. I had to procure my bottle in New Jersey. As for Van Gogh, I have yet to try it, but would look forward to doing so.

I just picked up a bottle of MM Westbourne Strength at Ace last week. I am sure Joe has a few more bottles in stock if anyone is interested.

[ol_ironstomach]

NYTimes Eric Asimov on gin, and the martini.

[The Hersch]

NYTimes Eric Asimov on gin, and the martini.

What on earth does he mean when he calls the martini

the world’s most famous (and perhaps least understood) cocktail

?

[BlakeG]

Divina Red Pepper stuffed.

Just tried these last night, WOW! Perfect cocktail olive.

[BlakeG]

NYTimes Eric Asimov on gin, and the martini.

Their top choice gin, Plymouth is currently on sale at MOCO liquor stores. Picked some up last night for 16.99 I believe. I made a martini with it last night but unfortunately all I could taste was the vermouth. I broke my hand and my almost supernatural "accurate to the .1 of an ounce" pouring ability is a bit off and i think i ended up at like a 3 to 1 ratio.

[shogun]

What on earth does he mean when he calls the martini ?

To 'us', the Martini is gin and vermouth (..or vodka...I guess...). To 'the world' it's the thing that James Bond likes 'Shaken, not stirred', and may or may not contain chocolate, espresso, or sour apple (definitely no gin, though. Gin is 'icky'). Same principle with beer. Everybody drinks beer, but how many of the world at large actually know what it is.

[The Hersch]

To 'us', the Martini is gin and vermouth (..or vodka...I guess...). To 'the world' it's the thing that James Bond likes 'Shaken, not stirred', and may or may not contain chocolate, espresso, or sour apple (definitely no gin, though. Gin is 'icky').

Well, if that's what he meant he should have chosen words that actually expressed his meaning. "Most widely misunderstood", perhaps, or "most often misconstrued". He said "least understood", and I would suggest that more people understand the martini than, say, the Maiden's Blush Cocktail, or the Fine and Dandy, or the Corpse Reviver.

[jparrott]

James Bond drank Vespers.

[Pat]

This was published almost a month ago, but I just finally caught up on my NY Times rss feed and saw it: NY Times political reporter's martini experiment on the campaign trail.

[deangold]

A very dry Martini, one where the bartender just looks at the bottle of vermouth, is a freaking shot of gin. Shaking brings the drink down 2 degrees cooler, but increases the dilution by a basis of 10% Chilling the glass brings a drink down 4 degrees and keeps the drink with just he natural dilution of the stir. ANd if the drink is too cold, you can't taste anything.

In my clumsy home experiments re a mixing glass vs a SS can, the stirring in the SS can brings the drink colder with seeming less dilution than stirring in a mixing glass {the thermal mass of the glass vs the can accounts for that on a theoretical level. Casual experimenting at the bar at Dino suggests a properly stirred martini in a can is perceptivly approximately as cold as a martini shaken iwth a mixing glass. As soon as we find the SS tops of our large mixing cans, we can experiments with shaking with no glass.

Always willing to take on for the team when it comes to Martinis. Which are Gin.

[DrXmus]

In my clumsy home experiments re a mixing glass vs a SS can, the stirring in the SS can brings the drink colder with seeming less dilution than stirring in a mixing glass {the thermal mass of the glass vs the can accounts for that on a theoretical level. Casual experimenting at the bar at Dino suggests a properly stirred martini in a can is perceptivly approximately as cold as a martini shaken iwth a mixing glass. As soon as we find the SS tops of our large mixing cans, we can experiments with shaking with no glass.

This is my take, too. I don't like using the Boston shaker (steel and glass combo) because I feel like I can't get drinks as cold and if I do, then they're too diluted.

[Pat]

Always willing to take on for the team when it comes to Martinis. Which are Gin.

At least you and the author agree on that .

[zoramargolis]

I keep the gin and the vermouth in the refrigerator. That way the ice doesn't melt very much in the process of stirring/chilling the drink. I never have enough room in the fridge or freezer to keep my cocktail glasses, but I know that works, too.

[DaRiv18]

If you can't fit your cocktail glasses and/or mixing glass in your freezer, then you should fill them with ice before use to chill them down. I would also submerge your barspoon into the ice water in the mixing glass for good measure.

Same principle as with cooking, shouldn't throw your ingredients into a lukewarm stovetop vessel, or plate something onto a cold plate, or pour coffee into a cold mug: get the container hot first.

[deangold]

I keep the gin and the vermouth in the refrigerator. That way the ice doesn't melt very much in the process of stirring/chilling the drink. I never have enough room in the fridge or freezer to keep my cocktail glasses, but I know that works, too.

I think there is an optimal amount of dilution. In an existence of infinitely many universes, we happened to hit on one where the freezing point of water is the perfect 32degrees which results in a dilution factor if 23-25% in a SS can, which is the perfect martini for me. You method makes for a stronger drink than I prefer, but it works best with 80 proof spirits, I think

If you can't fit your cocktail glasses and/or mixing glass in your freezer, then you should fill them with ice before use to chill them down. I would also submerge your barspoon into the ice water in the mixing glass for good measure.

Same principle as with cooking, shouldn't throw your ingredients into a lukewarm stovetop vessel, or plate something onto a cold plate, or pour coffee into a cold mug: get the container hot first.

Imagine all the infinities of existence where gin hasn't been discovered, much less the internet so we can go into excruciating details over the arcana of getting drunk... err, of mixology!

[DaRiv18]

Imagine all the infinities of existence where gin hasn't been discovered, much less the internet so we can go into excruciating details over the arcana of getting drunk... err, of mixology!

I suspect some get wistful of these alternative universes when they read my posts!

[deangold]

I would love to know the measure of the set of multiverses with a knowledge of the Martini {to recognize its many forms, let us call it clear drink perfection for the sake of the discussion, compared to the set of all multiverses. And how many of the Clear Drink Perfection knowing multiverses have young folk ordering chocolate "Clear Drink Perfection" and how many have old fogies, of whatever life form they happen to be, shaking their heads in despair.

[DrXmus]

I just read David Wondrich's "Killer Cocktails" book. I thought it was well-organized and great for a home bartender. One section that made me laugh and also think (and there were several) was his four "commandments" for the Martini.

1) Thou shalt not suffer thy Martini to be warm. For the Nature of the Martini lieth in Coldness and unto absolute Coldness must it be stirred. Neither shalt thou shake thy Martini, for by Stirring is the Coldness increased over that produced by Shaking, and that is Good.
2) If Vermouth maketh One Part of hte Six Parts of thy Martini, that is good. If Vermouth be One Part of Eight Parts, that is Good too, although Not Quite So Much. To pursue a Martini whose Dryness is increased over this is to whore after False Idols and it is an Abomination.
3) The Gin in thy Martini, its Proof shall be ninety-four. If its Proof be much less than ninety-four, thy martini will be watery and it will be weak and it will be an Abomination.
4)Thou shalt not pollute thy Martini with the Brine of the Olive. neither shalt thou stuff thy Olives with Filth and Nastiness the likes of which are Blue Cheese and Anchovies and Little Slivers of Garlic. If thou wouldst walk in the narrowest Path of Righteousness, thou shalt twist the Peel of the Lemon over the Martini and there shall be no Olive and neither shall there be an Onion.

I thought his Commandments would make some good conversation fodder here.

[deangold]

I just read David Wondrich's "Killer Cocktails" book. I thought it was well-organized and great for a home bartender. One section that made me laugh and also think (and there were several) was his four "commandments" for the Martini.

1) Thou shalt not suffer thy Martini to be warm. For the Nature of the Martini lieth in Coldness and unto absolute Coldness must it be stirred. Neither shalt thou shake thy Martini, for by Stirring is the Coldness increased over that produced by Shaking, and that is Good.
2) If Vermouth maketh One Part of hte Six Parts of thy Martini, that is good. If Vermouth be One Part of Eight Parts, that is Good too, although Not Quite So Much. To pursue a Martini whose Dryness is increased over this is to whore after False Idols and it is an Abomination.
3) The Gin in thy Martini, its Proof shall be ninety-four. If its Proof be much less than ninety-four, thy martini will be watery and it will be weak and it will be an Abomination.
4)Thou shalt not pollute thy Martini with the Brine of the Olive. neither shalt thou stuff thy Olives with Filth and Nastiness the likes of which are Blue Cheese and Anchovies and Little Slivers of Garlic. If thou wouldst walk in the narrowest Path of Righteousness, thou shalt twist the Peel of the Lemon over the Martini and there shall be no Olive and neither shall there be an Onion.

I thought his Commandments would make some good conversation fodder here.

#1 is not backed up by experimental evidence.
re#2, the original recipes were 3 to 1 or 2 to 1
#3 depends on the balance of botanicals to alcohol... there are low proof gins that make good martinis. But in my long years of research, my beliefs are in agrement. But one of my favorite martinis is Old Raj which is over 100 proof.
#4 is true except for Divina Mt Athos garlic or citrus stuffed olives which are made with real food, no chemicals etc. Of course, when I say martinis I actually drink Gibsons. .

[SeanMike]

While I enjoy Mr. Wondrich's writing quite a bit, I did have some similar thoughts to Mr. Gold here.

#1 is not backed up by experimental evidence.

Which is what I remember also. Personally, I wonder if he's thinking by getting the two to the same dilution, it'd be colder by stirring? I don't know, but I don't agree with him. I am also a heathen that shakes many drinks that Should Not Be Shaken, according to Those Who Say You Should Listen To Them.

re#2, the original recipes were 3 to 1 or 2 to 1

Also, they included orange bitters!

I tend to do 2-1 myself. Since I tend to drink what I have in my hand fairly quickly, I like extra, delicious vermouth because it also helps keep the proof down. I'll even, in fact, reverse it completely, and do 2 parts vermouth, 1 part gin! OH MY GOODNESS AND THEN I'LL SHAKE IT AND PEOPLE'S HEADS EXPLODE WTF I AM A COCKTAIL HERETIC

#3 depends on the balance of botanicals to alcohol... there are low proof gins that make good martinis. But in my long years of research, my beliefs are in agrement. But one of my favorite martinis is Old Raj which is over 100 proof.

It also depends on the vermouth, IMHO.

#4 is true except for Divina Mt Athos garlic or citrus stuffed olives which are made with real food, no chemicals etc. Of course, when I say martinis I actually drink Gibsons. .

An important note: if you're putting an onion in, it's a Gibson.

I don't see the anger about putting an olive in, though I understand how some folks get angry about "dirty martinis" (which I actually find fairly delicious when I'm in the mood, especially in places that just flat out refuse to add enough vermouth). I've also used pickled asparagus before.

But if I'm stressing that I'm doing a "classic" martini, it's 2-1 gin to vermouth, 1-2 dashes orange bitters, stirred, lemon twist.

[DaRiv18]

Not to divert the conversation here, but let's give Wondrich credit here lest he stumble upon this thread. These "commandments" appear in the "Gin Up (Primarily)" recipe, one categorized as a "classic bar basic". His first sentence is "The dry gin martini is not a cocktail, properly speaking; not anymore."

Two recipes later, he provides the Hoffman House: 2 ounces gin, preferably Plymouth; 1 ounce Noilly Prat white vermouth; 2 dashes orange bitters, and to finish, an orange peel. This is categorized as a "forgotten classic."

[deangold]

Not to divert the conversation here, but let's give Wondrich credit here lest he stumble upon this thread. These "commandments" appear in the "Gin Up (Primarily)" recipe, one categorized as a "classic bar basic". His first sentence is "The dry gin martini is not a cocktail, properly speaking; not anymore."

Two recipes later, he provides the Hoffman House: 2 ounces gin, preferably Plymouth; 1 ounce Noilly Prat white vermouth; 2 dashes orange bitters, and to finish, an orange peel. This is categorized as a "forgotten classic."

Noilly Pratt? Yikes! Dolin or Vya are my go to brands, and hence, the correct answer!

[DaRiv18]

Killer Cocktails is a 2005 printing, so I'll be sure to quote Mr. Gold in 2019 and ridicule his vermouth loyalities!

But really, I do find these commandments interesting, especially #3 (with #1). Drinking an 94 proof gin cold is desirable, but drinking a 94 proof whiskey with an ice cube is amateur (with co-sign)? Anyone care to differentiate here, or are we throwing gin under the bus here a bit?

[jparrott]

Noilly Pratt? Yikes! Dolin or Vya are my go to brands, and hence, the correct answer!

As a merchant of Dolin (full disclosure blah blah blah), allow me to add a commandment:

Thou shalt not speak ill of Noilly Prat when it is fresh.