DanCole42 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I try to do right by this here planet over which I have stewardship. But I always find there are pitfalls: My house is 100% on CFLs... but they have mercury in them. Buying local saves gas... but not necessarily if a local farm uses less efficient methods of harvesting. I drive a Prius... but the battery is a bitch to dispose of at the end of the life cycle. Wegman's sells grass-fed beef now... but it's flown in from Uruguay. Reusable grocery bags cut down on waste... but are full of germs. Most of those (with the exception of the Wegman's grass-fed beef... the flavor just isn't there) are tradeoffs that I've accepted, but I do like knowing the risks. So my question is, what sort of risks should I be aware of when shopping at a farmer's market? How do I know what I'm getting is a quality, locally grown product? Do some of the "farmers" buy their produce at Costco? Are the potted herbs I see just herbs that someone bought at Home Depot? How do I know? What are the "counter-arguments" to farmers markets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdt Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I try to do right by this here planet over which I have stewardship. But I always find there are pitfalls: My house is 100% on CFLs... but they have mercury in them. Buying local saves gas... but not necessarily if a local farm uses less efficient methods of harvesting. I drive a Prius... but the battery is a bitch to dispose of at the end of the life cycle. Wegman's sells grass-fed beef now... but it's flown in from Uruguay. Reusable grocery bags cut down on waste... but are full of germs. Most of those (with the exception of the Wegman's grass-fed beef... the flavor just isn't there) are tradeoffs that I've accepted, but I do like knowing the risks. So my question is, what sort of risks should I be aware of when shopping at a farmer's market? How do I know what I'm getting is a quality, locally grown product? Do some of the "farmers" buy their produce at Costco? Are the potted herbs I see just herbs that someone bought at Home Depot? How do I know? What are the "counter-arguments" to farmers markets? Look up info on the Farmer's market that you go to. Some markets require that vendors be local and that all their product must be produced on their land and farm. There are others here that will know for sure and chime in. BTW, what markets have you been suspicious of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCole42 Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 BTW, what markets have you been suspicious of? None at all. It just seems that with everything else I try to do to be a good lifeform, there's always some kind of catch or pitfall. I just wanted to know which ones to expect here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choirgirl21 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Like mdt said, you really need to investigate each market individually as each market's rules/restrictions and how they enforce them can vary a lot. "My" market - Greenbelt Farmers Market - is producer only and the farm is required to be within 100 miles and they hold pretty fast to that. However, they don't require the farms to be organic (in fact, I believe only one is certified organic) and up until this point, the meat vendor was not raising his meats purely on pasture. The latter was because they had been unable to locate a vendor who raised their animals entirely on pasture though. I volunteered to help recruit new vendors this year and did find one whose animals are purely pasture-raised (her heritage breed pigs have access to woods as well) - she is fabulous and I'm so excited to have her at the market this year! Anyway, the easiest thing to do is to find out the rules and ask someone from the market how they enforce them. Our market does farm visits periodically, but they do also expect that patrons will talk to the farmers about their methods to make sure they are comfortable with them. I think you can probably learn something about a market by looking at the vendor materials. Our vendor application and requirements are all posted right on the website so you can see exactly what they're asking the farmers before they screen them. The next step is to talk to each vendor before you buy their products. The other thing to consider is pre-made products - many markets will allow vendors who are located and make their product within the specified distance to vend, even if the ingredients for the product are not local. Greenbelt really tries to avoid that - our ice cream vendor for instance uses locally sourced ingredients, often sourced straight from the produce vendors at the market, but there are exceptions. Zeke's vends at the market too and clearly their coffee beans are from other countries. Likewise, I believe that the Riverdale market is producer only, but the pickle vendor does not use local cucumbers simply b/c he goes through such a large quantity as to make it impossible (or so he told me). I used to buy his pickles, but have decided they're so easy to make that this year I'll make my own. But again, this is all information that I gleaned mostly from my discussions with the farmers/vendors themselves and a bit with the board members or other volunteers (I volunteer occasionally in the summer at the info booth so I had good opportunities to ask questions, but there is always one officer present at the market each Sunday). So decide what your priorities are and then ask questions. My personal priority is to find markets that have a clear definition of what is considered local and enforce it. Then within that structure, I know what else to ask individual vendors - do they use pesticides or fertilizers and if so, how often? If they are providing a pre-made product, where did the source their ingredients, etc. Not sure if this helpful or I'm just rambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Blume Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 There are some markets that do not necessarily offer local, fresh seasonal food grown by the guys dressed in overalls who set their card tables up in front of a beautifully restored, historically significant building and wait for the tourists and shoppers to stroll by before trying on the scarves and bracelets at the end of the row. Dead give-aways: pineapples, apples with stickers on them, asparagus in March in bundles like the Chilean stalks you bought for Thanksgiving, strawberries the first week in April. Even in that sort of setting, you can find a few legits or fuzzies who might set out a crate or two of the strawberries they grew along with produce bought at an Amish auction. For all you know, the auction fare could be really good and fresh. In Saint Louis, I bought fresh, local tomatoes along with bananas at an outdoor market just because the produce was less expensive than it was at supermarkets. No one was pretending the market was something other than what it was--it was a long-standing tradition you used to find in lots of cities. Ask. Find out about the farms, their locations. Ask them if they grow all the stuff they sell (producer-only markets require this), though as far as I am concerned, this is not necessarily de rigueur since New Morning Farm, for example, sells for the other farms in its organic co-op at the Sheridan School and represents them. You're really talking about deception, though, and marketing ploys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banco Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I know Eastern Market runs the gamut from South African to local, especially in the regular hall. At the weekend market many, if not most, of the "local" farmers are from as far away as Berkley Springs--not that I mind necessarily, but in such a sprawling metropolitan area as this you do have to travel pretty far to get into real farm country. I'm concerned more about meat than produce, however, and more about its method of raising than its provenance. I asked the guys at Union Meat about this once and they said there's just not enough insistence on organic and/or grass fed beef to justify their carrying it on a regular basis. As for poultry, we all know that "free range" means next to nothing, but the Korean vendor sells what I believe to be a good organic, free range product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMango Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 ...Reusable grocery bags cut down on waste... but are full of germs. ...what sort of risks should I be aware of when shopping at a farmer's market? How do I know what I'm getting is a quality, locally grown product?... Are you referring to last summer's study funded by the plastics industry? Even if so, placing most perishable/exposed items in protective layers (other, smaller, reusable produce bags), and washing all bags occasionally should eliminate the issue. Reducing our use of disposable bags is important. Another "gotcha" at farmers markets is keeping an eye out for out-of-area packaging. I've been to farmer's markets in other states where the "Grown In Mexico" boxes were visible behind the stalls. But as others have noted, web research and an iPhone app or two will tell ya which markets aim to be grower or producer-only venues. (and bring your reusable bags) (or a backpack) (or a bag of holding, heward's handy haversack, and/or portable hole) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waitman Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Not to be anti-environment or anything but, who cares? It's not like your cars, books, clothes, bananas, French cheese, Greek olives, Italian wine, branzini, cookware or beach towels were made within a hundred miles of here, why worry about the apples? I've seen a lot of "farmers" selling wholesale stuff -- the bananas were a dead giveaway -- but I've never seen anyone that seemed to be trying to pass it off as home-grown. But, get to know your farmers. Also, if you can't tell the difference between Costco produce and home-grown produce (which I'm confident everyone here can) either a) the farmer's stuff isn't worth buying, so shuffle past to the next stand or you should probably just buy the Costco stuff and send the money you saved to Greenpeace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcs Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 you should probably just buy the Costco stuff and send the money you saved to Greenpeace. Only if you want them to spend your money sending you 20 mailings over the next year asking for more money. The Smile Train must have trained at the same fund raising trough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentbob Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 You're really talking about deception, though, and marketing ploys. Coincidentally, there was an article in today's paper about pressure on the FDA to clamp down on food fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreese Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 As others have stated some markets are producer only. Many local farmers only participate in producer-only farmers markets otherwise they are not able to compete with vendors selling items from overseas or California. Since the economic downturn, you are seeing more vendors reselling products at some market or at roadside stands. They are trying to feed and support their families. For some people, there is no producer only concern-only concern for affordable prices. The key is to talk with the farmer and ask questions(when it is not too busy) about their growing practices, when their items were picked, where there farm is, the acreage etc .Most farmers love farming and have no problem speaking with their customers . Also, look at the products, the signs at their stand etc. Some allow you to taste before you purchase and there is nothing like a slice of ripe cantaloupe on a summer day. The farmers market in Howard County at the library on Thursdays has some of the best I have tasted. Organic farmers have certification local/natural means local/natural- the term does not necessarily preclude fungicide, herbicide and pesticide usage. In this area in particular, rarely are any tree fruits organic- the humidity is the major factor. Again, talk to the farmer, for some that raise bees and sell honey, they do not use chemicals due to concern for the bees and honey production. The Mount Rainier's farmer market will be starting in June.This will be a producer only market. The city is committed to bringing additional fresh fruits and veggies o this growing area. I am working with the city to make this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leleboo Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 The Mount Rainier's farmer market will be starting in June.This will be a producer only market. The city is committed to bringing additional fresh fruits and veggies o this growing area. I am working with the city to make this happen. Please let us know more about this -- we can give it its own thread here in the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Blume Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Not to be anti-environment or anything but, who cares? It's not like your cars, books, clothes, bananas, French cheese, Greek olives, Italian wine, branzini, cookware or beach towels were made within a hundred miles of here, why worry about the apples? Unless it's the sheep's milk feta from Whole Foods, I'm not looking for my French cheese to be fresh. Apples matter less than asparagus, berries or eggs if you're only concerned about taste, though I'd argue on behalf of the superior texture, beauty and flavor of Twin Spring's Gold Rush apple on a late day in October when handed a Red Delicious w a sticker from Costco. Monsanto-seed sowers out in Iowa aren't the only ones I am hoping to dis when modestly, admittedly, supporting local farmers in efforts to keep land arable in as many places as possible in a world where is not much of that kind of earth left. But come on. You just like goading us decent, peaceable types into pious, huffy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Danny Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Never mind that, how about most of our food being deviously mislabeled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choirgirl21 Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Not to be anti-environment or anything but, who cares? It's not like your cars, books, clothes, bananas, French cheese, Greek olives, Italian wine, branzini, cookware or beach towels were made within a hundred miles of here, why worry about the apples? All other reasons aside, how about taste? Yes, food can actually have flavor. It's astonishing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdt Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 All other reasons aside, how about taste? Yes, food can actually have flavor. It's astonishing! Locally grown certainly does not always mean better tasting, although it usually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monavano Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 At the Alexandria Old Town market, I frequent Cameron's stand and thought they were selling only local-what's produced on their farm. So, there I see strawberries and ask if they were local. They were from Florida. *ugh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deangold Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Locally grown certainly does not always mean better tasting, although it usually does. I would say, rather, that better tasting often means locally grown. There is a farm at one of the markets I frequent that grown supermarket varieties of their veggies. While often better than what ai can get from my conventional produce supplier, it is not at all competitive flavor wise with the guys growing misshapen, less uniform or just funny looking veggies from older strains. Local, yes. Organic, yes. But I only buy produce from them when I am short something and they are my only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choirgirl21 Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 I would say, rather, that better tasting often means locally grown. There is a farm at one of the markets I frequent that grown supermarket varieties of their veggies. While often better than what ai can get from my conventional produce supplier, it is not at all competitive flavor wise with the guys growing misshapen, less uniform or just funny looking veggies from older strains. Local, yes. Organic, yes. But I only buy produce from them when I am short something and they are my only option. Valid point, and the two often do go hand in hand (heirloom varieties and local farms). Even with non-heirloom varieties, I've found that the difference is often quite noticeable simply because the food can be picked when ripe and eaten immediately. A blind side by side comparison of a local radish versus an organic one obtained from Whole Foods is the perfect example - the outcome was a shocking contrast between a crisp spicy flavorful bit of deliciousness and a piece of cardboard. Apples are another great example - a fuji or gala bought from my vendor at the market will beat a grocery store variety shipped from the west coast ANY day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoramargolis Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Apples are another great example - a fuji or gala bought from my vendor at the market will beat a grocery store variety shipped from the west coast ANY day. I should point out that "supermarket" apples aren't always shipped from the west coast. Local farmers market veteran Mark Toigo (Toigo Orchards in Shippensburg, PA) sells a lot of apples to local wholesalers, and his apples are sold at Giant and Whole Foods. In fact, only 10% of what he grows is sold in farmers markets. Of course he has special, more flavorful varieties that he sells directly to the public at farmers markets, and he picks them riper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Boy Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 The one thing I have discovered that you need to empower yourself with information. You can't be perfect, but you can ask questions and you can develop relationships with the people and places you acquire your food. Just asking the question 'Where was this grown?' often gets you the answer you need. Sure, maybe some people lie, but at least you asked....;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monavano Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 The one thing I have discovered that you need to empower yourself with information. You can't be perfect, but you can ask questions and you can develop relationships with the people and places you acquire your food. Just asking the question 'Where was this grown?' often gets you the answer you need. Sure, maybe some people lie, but at least you asked....;-) So true. I mentioned before that Cameron (farm?, berry farm?) at the Old Town market has nice produce, herbs and edible flowers, but when strawberries showed up on their table a month ago, I had to ask where they were from. Florida. At least they didn't BS. The folks who sell at the NW corner of Royal St. had corn last week. I didn't even need to ask to know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 So true. I mentioned before that Cameron (farm?, berry farm?) has nice produce, herbs and edible flowers, but when strawberries showed up on their table a month ago, I had to ask where they were from. Florida. At least they didn't BS. Because of odd weather patterns, south Florida had an enormous glut of strawberries. Prices were so low that they were plowing them under & giving them away free. When I was in Miami in March, Costco was selling gigantic containers for $5, and still had to pitch a lot because they couldn't sell them all. Not surprised to see some of them make their way up here. We have it pretty good here in DC. I almost never assume that a "farmer's market" in another city has local produce. Zora, I haven't seen Toigo produce at the Silver Spring Whole Foods, but maybe I just need to look more closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choirgirl21 Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 We have it pretty good here in DC. That is certainly the truth! I am really grateful for how easy it is for me to obtain my food from local sources. Zora, everything you said is true, but the local thing has been much slower to catch on than organic in chain stores so at least in my local stores, it's still quite rare. Even my Whole Foods has an unimpressive local selection much of the year although it is (very) slowly growing. And yes, even then they are picked underripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Mary Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I think this is kinda sorta the right place for this question - what is up with all the tomatoes at farmer's markets? I bought gazpacho from Chris' Market today because I jones for it as much as the next guy, but there are grape, regular, and vine tomatoes easily available this spring. Those I won't buy. But why not? Apples, also. At the Dupont market I overheard someone ask a vendor how he had apples at this time of year and he explained they were in some kind of nitrogen storage - that's about all I caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choirgirl21 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I can't answer your question about tomatoes. Possibly they were grown in a greenhouse/hothouse of some sort, but otherwise it seems too early for them. Although I"ve been proven wrong a few times b/c some of the farms on the eastern shore will vend here and they tend to get stuff a lot earlier than other farms. But still, seems too early for the tomatoes. That's why it's always best to ask. Most orchards do store their extra apples in cold storage. It's not the same as a fridge, I believe the humidity is controlled as well. For people trying to balance the various aspects of environmental, health, etc. concerns it may be bothersome that power/fuel is required to store the produce through the winter months. For me, I still think it's better than that required to ship something cross-country or cross-continents, but that's me. But bottom line, yes, that seems to be somewhat common practice for local orchards, at least the larger ones. FYI, if you care about pesticides, most local orchards need to use them occasionally and are not fully organic. Again, I still prefer that to shipped apples, but it's good to know - I try to ask how long ago the last spray was. If there hasn't been much rain since, then I make sure to wash them thoroughly. Oh, last (of my many) comments, I do think the flavor and especially the texture can fade over time in storage so I always ask which "age" best and also try the samples before I buy when it's not harvest time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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