I want Eat Drink, Man Woman Chinese food!

[Scott]

Why is Chinese food in this country so far behind the times? I gave up on Chinese after going to Mr. K's years ago, after hearing how great it was. It was just the same ol' same ol', but with tablecloths! Why do all the other ethnic cuisines offer high end choices, but not Chinese?

[ol_ironstomach]

Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis? In this area, our modest spread of Chinese restaurants include northern (A&J) and southern dim sum (see dim sum Sundays thread), several expressions of vegetarian (Yuan Fu, Vegetable Garden, Sunflower), the mysterious duck epicenter of Falls Church (Marks, House of Peking Gourmet) and from time to time, credible Szechuan. All in addition to the usual namby-pamby Americanized crap.

Ahh, you say, but you want Eat, Drink, Man, Woman food. Who doesn't? Even Ang Lee spliced together the work of maybe a half-dozen chefs to illustrate Chef Chu's mastery. Alas, in the DC, the closest thing I've experienced would be a banquet at the embassy. All the more reason we need Peter Chang back.

[jasonc]

Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis? In this area, our modest spread of Chinese restaurants include northern (A&J) and southern dim sum (see dim sum Sundays thread), several expressions of vegetarian (Yuan Fu, Vegetable Garden, Sunflower), the mysterious duck epicenter of Falls Church (Marks, House of Peking Gourmet) and from time to time, credible Szechuan. All in addition to the usual namby-pamby Americanized crap.

Ahh, you say, but you want Eat, Drink, Man, Woman food. Who doesn't? Even Ang Lee spliced together the work of maybe a half-dozen chefs to illustrate Chef Chu's mastery. Alas, in the DC, the closest thing I've experienced would be a banquet at the embassy. All the more reason we need Peter Chang back.

I disagree. I have found DC's Chinese scene extremely lacking, except for Cantonese, which is pretty well represented with some top notch dim sum, noodle and congee joints. There might be one or two good szechuan places, but depending on where you live, it could be quite a hike. Shanghainese is virtually absent, and i've found the Taiwanese places (a&j) very lacking. Hunanese is also impossible to find. The peking places you mention in Falls Church are also poor imitations, especially wrt the crispiness of the skin. If I'm in the DC area and fancy east asian, it's vietnamese, korean or thai for me.

[DanielK]

I disagree. I have found DC's Chinese scene extremely lacking, except for Cantonese, which is pretty well represented with some top notch dim sum, noodle and congee joints. There might be one or two good szechuan places, but depending on where you live, it could be quite a hike. Shanghainese is virtually absent, and i've found the Taiwanese places (a&j) very lacking. Hunanese is also impossible to find. The peking places you mention in Falls Church are also poor imitations, especially wrt the crispiness of the skin. If I'm in the DC area and fancy east asian, it's vietnamese, korean or thai for me.

I'll disagree with your disagree. There's Shanghai Cafe in Potomac for Shanghainese. Bob's Noodle 66 and it's companion Bob's 88 Shabu Shabu turn out some excellent Taiwanese food. Peking Palace has Hunan cuisine. And I've had excellent Peking Duck at Spices in Cleveland Park, and Peking Cheers in Gaithersburg.

Save New York, I don't know of a better metro area for Chinese food on the East Coast.

[DanielK]

Why is NY or SF the basis of comparison for good Chinese food and not the source countries?

Because most of us have been to NY and or SF, places with acclaimed Chinatown eateries, and most of us have NOT been to China...

[DanielK]

That's the point I am trying to make. With ethic food it is always best to make your own decisions. To that point I recommend everyone explore many and avoid reviews.

But then why is your friend from Hong Kong a better reviewer?

A friend of mine might go to China, and someone asks him what the best "American" restaurant is in Bejing. And he might think that McDonald's is the height of American cuisine, and review accordingly. Most of us would argue that this person is therefore not a good arbiter of what good American food is. Now, if there was a large American expat community, there's a better chance of pointing to something of quality.

We're making the same argument here. Pick cities that have large expat Chinese communities, and you're likely to find high quality authentic Chinese food there, because they demand it. Big cities on the West Coast clearly qualify. On the East Coast, I'd argue that it's NY first, and DC second, specifically Rockville/Gaithersburg.

If you want everyone to explore everything themselves and avoid reviews, what's the point of this website?

[DonRocks]

I'll disagree with your disagree.

I'll disagree with your disagree with Jason's disagree.

I think Chinese food in this area is 99% glop - yes, even places such as Bob's Noodle 66. I've dined with knowledgable Chinese citizens - people who really know and love food - and have been assured that it simply isn't this way in their native land.

Never having visited China, I realize this isn't much to go on, but I'm convinced that there's much, much more to great Chinese cuisine than what you can find in these parts. There has to be.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[PollyG]

If you know someone who can read Chinese, I have a feeling that Serenity in Vienna may well belong on the listing of good Chinese places in the region. The Chinese menu has no English translations, but the dishes we ordered from the regular menu (mostly a selection indicating that they cater to an American lunch crowd for the majority of their revenue) suggest that there's a talented chef in the kitchen.

Their web site touts Taiwanese dishes.

Web site:

http://serenitychinese.com/

And if you do go, and it's good, your duty to the rest of us is to post a menu translation!

[mr food]

Mark's has new owners. I hope this keeps the place from being closed by the VA Health department on an almost annual basis.

[PollyG]

As a side note I do not know if people know this, but MDH is one of the larger wholesalers of cooked duck, pork and other products to other restaurants. I tell you this because I have a friend that hates MDH, but swears by the duck at this other place. However that Duck is sourced from MDH.

As far as you know, do they supply to any of the places that have hanging displays of roast duck, sides of pig, etc.? We've been on a roast pig kick for a bit and are working our way through most of the NoVa places that sell it. So far, Cho Chu Saigon in one of the Eden Center's interior corners is our favorite. We haven't made it to Mark's for the pig yet.

[Pete]

If you know someone who can read Chinese, I have a feeling that Serenity in Vienna may well belong on the listing of good Chinese places in the region. The Chinese menu has no English translations, but the dishes we ordered from the regular menu (mostly a selection indicating that they cater to an American lunch crowd for the majority of their revenue) suggest that there's a talented chef in the kitchen.

Their web site touts Taiwanese dishes.

Web site:

http://serenitychinese.com/

And if you do go, and it's good, your duty to the rest of us is to post a menu translation!

What dishes do you recommend? I have not ordered from here yet, as I just assumed it was like all of the other standard chinese restaurants in Vienna.

[PollyG]

What dishes do you recommend? I have not ordered from here yet, as I just assumed it was like all of the other standard chinese restaurants in Vienna.

We just ate there fort the first time last week; it's beyond our usual food boundaries, but we had a show at the nearby Jammin Java. We had a pork with sliced hot pepper dish that was eye-opening, and the home-style tofu, which was lightly fried and had an interesting contrast of textures between the chewy outside and silken middle.

[jasonc]

I'll disagree with your disagree. There's Shanghai Cafe in Potomac for Shanghainese. Bob's Noodle 66 and it's companion Bob's 88 Shabu Shabu turn out some excellent Taiwanese food. Peking Palace has Hunan cuisine. And I've had excellent Peking Duck at Spices in Cleveland Park, and Peking Cheers in Gaithersburg.

Save New York, I don't know of a better metro area for Chinese food on the East Coast.

I'll have to take your word for it on that Shanghainese place, but when I posted a few months ago asking about a place for good xiao long bao, the consensus was that it was pretty much nonexistent in the DC area. Now this is just my opinion, but when I was in Shanghai, I found these soup dumplings to be pretty much the epitome of my culinary experience there. They were everywhere, full of flavor, and the pure physics of them were mind boggling. If they indeed are so impossible to find in the DC area, then your assertion that Shanghainese is readily available is suspect. I'm also suspicious about ordering hunanese at a place called Peking Palace, for obvious reasons. It's also important to note that you listed a handful of places spread over a large area. You are right that this is quite a tall order, and DC isn't bad compared to the rest of the East Coast. But I do think the demand for regionally specific Chinese cuisine is there, as we saw with that Chang guy. And if you all thought his Sichuan was hot, then boy you are going to love authentic hunanese.

[ol_ironstomach]

My point is not that DC is a great destination for Chinese (it isn't) but that "food dude" is far from limited to the same-old same-old. There are some pretty good options, although no seriously high-end ones here.

While Daniel's cheering for the home team is nice, it's rather wishful. Toronto is arguably second only to NYC on the east coast, and then only because NYC's Chinatowns have seen a resurgence over the past 15 years, particularly in Queens. DC isn't remotely in the same league.

Otherwise, I agree with most of Jason's points. We're conspicuously and painfully lacking in Hunan and Shanghainese restaurants, particularly the latter. I'm not even sure which noodle places he's thinking of. I'll take exception with the Taiwanese observation - Fu Shing Cafe does a good job, and Seven Seas used to. Then again, my recollections of dining in Taiwan are that it wasn't much to write home about, and completely paled in comparison to Hong Kong.

For the uninitiated, Vancouver is considered by many to have the best Chinese food in North America these days, bar none. Huge and affluent Chinese community there, with the appetite to match. Not to impugn Jason's objectivity, but almost anywhere else on this continent is going to be a letdown.

[SrtaJRosa]

I'll disagree with your disagree. There's Shanghai Cafe in Potomac for Shanghainese. Bob's Noodle 66 and it's companion Bob's 88 Shabu Shabu turn out some excellent Taiwanese food. Peking Palace has Hunan cuisine. And I've had excellent Peking Duck at Spices in Cleveland Park, and Peking Cheers in Gaithersburg.

Save New York, I don't know of a better metro area for Chinese food on the East Coast.

I must say that Philadelphia has quite a few decent Chinese food places in the area of University City and CHINATOWN. Not to say better than the NYC, but definitely better than DC.

[jasonc]

Good call on Toronto Dave! I knew I was forgetting an East coast city. Some of the best Sichuan food I've ever had in Toronto.

[DanielK]

I'd forgotten Toronto - good call there. And I never meant to compare to NYC, Vancouver, Seattle, SF, etc. - I agree that DC is nowhere near that league. We certainly don't have a complete range, and once you get past Cantonese and Hong Kong, you can only choose from a couple of places for most other cuisines. But compared to most cities in the East, that's still an amazing variety.

Philly? There are a couple of places in Chinatown, but it's not what it was 10 years ago. I think Rockville has a better Chinatown than Philly these days. Boston? Atlanta? Not a chance. Florida is still the land of the Early Bird Special Combination Plate.

[Scott]

Well, I'll try that Shanghai place in Potomac- since that's close to me, but I'm not optimistic.

My brother lives in Malaysia with his Malaysian wife. While they like some of the dim sum (Hollywood East) in the DC area, they pretty much think Asian dining in general is severely lacking. He's always ranting and raving about the food over there. Apparently, their fruits are very unique and food is an important part of the culture. I swear it's one of the main reasons he lives there.

[xcanuck]

I think Chinese food in this area is 99% glop - yes, even places such as Bob's Noodle 66. I've dined with knowledgable Chinese citizens - people who really know and love food - and have been assured that it simply isn't this way in their native land.

If that's the case, then take virtually all the Indian restaurants in North America (including the sacred cows in DC) and throw them in the dumper. No one eats like that in homes in India. Sorry, but having to be uber-authentic doesn't really work for me (at least in this context).

While Daniel's cheering for the home team is nice, it's rather wishful. Toronto is arguably second only to NYC on the east coast, and then only because NYC's Chinatowns have seen a resurgence over the past 15 years, particularly in Queens. DC isn't remotely in the same league.

Good call on Toronto. There are about half a dozen distinct and very large Chinatowns in the GTA. The original in downtown T.O. barely compares to the new one around Steeles Ave in the Markham area. While it's not as concentrated as Vancouver's, I'd submit that many of the same demographics (affluent and newly arrived Asian immigrants) exist in Toronto. They're just scattered around Markham, Etobicoke, Scarberia, Richmond Hill, etc. And if you want really high end Asian, maybe try Susur Lee's place(s) in Toronto. I've never been because I haven't won the lottery. And now with the loonie worth $1.05 Bush Bucks, I doubt I'll ever be able to afford it!

[cjsadler]

If that's the case, then take virtually all the Indian restaurants in North America (including the sacred cows in DC) and throw them in the dumper. No one eats like that in homes in India. Sorry, but having to be uber-authentic doesn't really work for me (at least in this context).

That's comparing Indian restaurants here to Indian homecooking in India (which, you're correct, is quite a bit different than restaurant cooking both in India and the US). I'm only basing this on one trip to India, but I thought restaurant-to-restaurant, the Indian sacred cows in DC held up fairly well to Indian restaurants in India. I'm not sure what Don is talking about. Don, are talking about a comparison of Chinese restaurants here to Chinese restaurants in China? Or Chinese restaurants here compared to Chinese home cooking in China?

[DonRocks]

I think Chinese food in this area is 99% glop - yes, even places such as Bob's Noodle 66. I've dined with knowledgable Chinese citizens - people who really know and love food - and have been assured that it simply isn't this way in their native land.

If that's the case, then take virtually all the Indian restaurants in North America (including the sacred cows in DC) and throw them in the dumper. No one eats like that in homes in India. Sorry, but having to be uber-authentic doesn't really work for me (at least in this context).

xcanuck,

I'm not talking about being authentic; I'm talking about not being glop.

I have no doubt there are plenty of terrible restaurants in China. Nevertheless, Chinese is widely considered one of the world's great cuisines; there is very little evidence of that here in the Washington, DC area.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[deangold]

I can't possibly compare the cooking of DC to places I ave never been ,but I have been to loads of places in San Francisco & LA. In some areas, DC compared favorably, not in number but in quality. Bob's Shabu, Joes Noodle, A&J, New Fortune & HECOTB (when on for dim sum) are all top notch. You can get a pretty mean bowl of HK style wonton soup in DC at Full Kee in chinatown and most of the time in Wheaton. BBQ is pretty easy to find. These places compete with the best of San Fransisco and LA in their categories.

But in LA there are a dozen Chiu chow noodle houses, none that I know if here. THere are no shining live seafood houses (tho 7 Seas was top notch when we used to go but without the huge selection of NBC or ABC or Ocean Star in Monterey Park).

SO I agree with both sides of the equation: most Chinese in DC is glop but there are shiing star examples based on my sheltered LA & SF stomping grounds.

On the other hand, the Korean here in DC is incredible, both in quality, range and mass. I get better Korean here than in Seoul Alley in NYC and equal to the best in LA's Koreatown. Of course I have not been to the Korean enclaves outside of Manhattan so there is a limitation to my already limited comparison.

[jparrott]

Nevertheless, Chinese is widely considered one of the world's great cuisines

Chinese is considered six of the world's great cuisines.